Layne, I held the first QBBA (Quads Bodybuilding Association) World Championships yesterday. It was great, I held the competition in the squat rack at my house. I won with 100% of the vote, the judge (myself) was very impressed with my conditioning. I am going to hold the 2nd World Championships today, I'm feeling confident that I will win again.
Great video, Layne. I fell victim to the "go hard on every set" motto when I first started training. Not only was the lack of progression in later sets discouraging I wasn't noticing much change in my physique. After recording my weights and focusing on overall volume it not only made training sessions more enjoyable due to recovery bewtween sets it allows me to focus on the numbers I need to hit to progress. Hopefully anyone that is currently in the position I was sees this video and uses it!
Nice to hear someone that is actually educated in the "sciences" of lifting basically back up what I have always been saying. Volume is a very important factor in strength training... I always hate it when I hear someone tell me "that looked easy for you, you could have done another rep" and I respond "but if I get that rep I will lose that next set" and they look at me all confused..... like you said... Fail sets are a tool and should be used as such not a training doctrine that needs to be applied for every single set.
I am very pleasantly surprised with Dr. Norton's argument for volume. Most internet "experts" these days go against anything that reminds them of traditional bodybuilding values like failure,isolation ,pump and yes, high volume. If something has the label of powerlifting or olympic lifting (even if you do not compete in those) it is considered god given advise. On the other hand if something reminds them of traditional BB, is scoffed as suitable only "for steroid users". Yet it is evident that volume training works, ,whether the athlete is natural or not. I tried the fewer sets , more weight philosophy but I always got minor results. At first I persisted, because I believed internet articles from unqualified experts that insisted that volume was only for those with super genetics or on juice. I learned eventually that you must progressively built your tolerance to volume like you build tolerance to increased resistance from increasing weight. Layne just solidified my conclusions and observations with his scientific explanation.Muscle needs volume, period.
I was just conversing about the minimum and maximum "right now" effect of training and how counter-productive it can be to go past or consistently strive for the "max", just recently. This is a video that I wanted to see before I even knew it existed. Dr. Z is the man. I think him and Dr. Schoenfeld's approaches to training and periodization are my favorite and the most well-informed and customizable.
and - to your point on Failure - I couldn't agree more. I am pretty sure you and Dr. Wilson conversed upon this in your old podcast and I found myself nodding along as well. I LOVE the idea and the literature behind failure but it is too widely focused upon by its positives and not nearly enough on the negatives that it can have on your overall training regimen (but I guess that's just the case for every single variable in everything in this industry).
Great subject for your latest video log! Only makes sense to track everything so you can see what needs adjusting, rather than adjusting arbitrarily or guessing. Such great information. Thanks, Layne!
Love your vids Doc I'm 40 years old and I have been training for a while I have always used progressive volume and grew 21 inch arms naturally had nice wheels before my sports injury keep the great vids coming
Wow. My notes from this lecture- Training Volume = Amount of weight X reps/set X # of sets. It's training volume that is the most important factor in hypertrophy in a hierarchy of factors. Good word on needing to realize there's a volumization cap (you said "threshold" but I think you meant a cap). (I think this connects with the law of diminishing returns maybe?) I must work at an appropriate progression. And progression is better measured in terms of training volume (and not, say, in strength). When doing other kinds of training (for ex. going to failure) I must not sacrifice that which is most important in hypertrophy which is training volume. So implement other kinds of training wisely without sacrificing the ultimate tool of volume. There is so much new to me here that I'm eager to learn more and lift weights much more wisely. Thanks, Dr. Layne.
This is the best video I have ever watched in regards to explaining volume vs failure! Love it :D I have had advise which is towards failure every set and I have also had advise in regards to overall volume and I found that I had my best results when I done a program where I NEVER went to failure except for last set. What happened was I got stronger each fortnight and gained size. I then plateaued as you do and was convinced to go back to lactic acid city which totally fucked my SNS and I found that my volume decreased heaps; however I thought that the constant bashing myself to failure would compensate for volume... nope, and this vid has helped me decide to stay away from busting myself to failure each set. Nice channel keep it up!
I fully agree with you about volume being the most important thing and training to failure reduces down your ability to perform volume. But besides volume, other factors have to play a significant role in strength building and hypertrophy otherwise you could get big and strong doing 100 rep sets. I assume there must be a minimum amount of weight you need to use to efficiently gain strenghth and size, and if you train below that minimum, you don't build strength and size.
well if you watch some of Rich Piana's vids he does 100 rep drop sets. But I think the biggest problem with that is its not time efficient. if i do 10 reps with 100's vs 100 reps with 40's. i get about the same volume because the weight is heavier and the set didnt take 5 minutes.
bicmyflic25 Drop sets are a lot different than doing high reps with a light weight. I do drop sets on hack squats where I start with 6 plates on each side and work my way down to one. That's a lot different than doing 1 plate for 100.
biolayne I'm agreeing with you. My question is how do these other factors impact strength and size? What is the optimal amount of volume vs. resistance? I'm sure it varies from person to person a bit, based on your training tolerance?
this video definitely reassures the approach to my training. I don't track my training progress like you said we should (yes shame on me), but i do keep mental notes and i do lots of volume. 6-10 reps for 4 working sets usually per exercise and supersets. great video, thanks
Dr. Norton, after listening to the Muscle College Radio episode where you discuss this with Dr. Wilson, total volume has become my progression metric like you suggest ... Ummm, best gains of my life :) I still can't believe you give this stuff out for free! Thanks!
Hi Layne! very good video, i have a question regarding with progress and compensating volume. For example i do 4 sets of 4 to 6 reps in squat, what if for example with 200 kg i do 4 x 6 = 24 total reps and the next week i add some weight and only do 4x4 = 16 total reps ? should i add more sets so i reach the same amount of sets that i did in the past week,? in this case should i add 2 more sets so i can do 6 sets x 4 reps = 24? or its not necessary to compensate ? This wont affect my progress? because i if i dont add more sets to compensate i would be training with less volumen. Hope you can answer this silly question my friend. Take care!
Really enjoyed this talk. Volume is definitely an interesting subject, and Dr. Zourdos is a master at manipulating it and testing its limits. Also, I'd be a much better bodybuilder if his rules applied. Lol. Great info!
Hi Layne: I'm just wondering if you could entertain a thought: something that has always bugged me about "volume" as the key regulator of hypertrophy is...well, I'm not sure how to make this clear...but it's at best an imperfect way of summarizing the actual experience and "language" of the musculoskeletal system. To drill down closer to the muscle cells themselves, their experience of the training is described/communicated in TIME and TENSION (through the appropriate cascades). While quantifying volume and resistance are objectively necessary for research purposes, you can do a repetition w/various techniques, all creating different tensions on the muscle cells; it seems this (albeit slight) discrepancy in languages leaves the door open for large misinterpretation of the data. In other words, what we may think of as volume being the/a prime variable in hypertrophy might actually be explained by the progressive recruitment of higher-threshold fibers--TENSION. Another possible example is occlusion training in which (in this theory) the low-threshold oxidative fibers are forced to yield in the hypoxic milieu, thus recruiting the higher-threshold fibers...again, creating increased tension on the fibers with greater hypertrophic potential. (This is of course different than the metabolic byproduct assumption.) If this were true, then it could go a long way toward explaining discrepancies in the research and experience of others. Sorry for the rambling. If any of it made sense, I'd enjoy your response. Thanks
I like the video! For squats its been great to have more volume, I squatted 3x week for 6 months, 5x5, and make all kindz of gainzzz (strenght and size), now Im doing the same with bench which is my lagging lift, ist going to be like monday bench 5x5, wednesday incline 5x5, and then saturday again flat 5x5, congrats for the USAPL meet, it funny how you approuch your lift, you get nuts first! hahah greetings from south america
The one thing I've never understood regarding volume (and why I've never devoted time to tracking it specifically) is how to equate it across multiple exercises in the context of bodybuilding and hypertrophy. If you're performing leg presses, squats, and lunges, how can you track volume when angles of tension and absolute poundages differ (between machines and so on)? Is there a way you might simplify the tracking to get a general view of volume? Would you just track the volume of one main exercise? Good video - loving the inspiration for highly critical thinking and swole-itude.
My two major questions would be 1. Where does time under tension come into play in volume 2. What about volume outside of the gym like for someone who has a very strenuous job, how would this be accounted for?
Great video log Layne! Wanted to clarify a point that you made at the end, if the individual's training goal is volume but they are simultaneously utilising "sets to failure" as a secondary tool each time a workout is done, is that also inappropriate use of it and possibly hindering the opportunity to achieve greater training volume?
Layne, I agree as I have seen results when focusing on volume. My question is...in terms of measuring tonnage, should that be for just the main lifts? Like on my pull day, when hitting biceps at the end do I measure that separate, not at all or add it in with the weighted pull ups/rows? Good stuff and thanks!
I understand that we should progressively advance in terms of volume, but what happens in a specific workout ex: arm day -biceps curls- i observed in the first set that i couldn't perform as many reps as the previous workout with the same amount of weight, should i add a plus set to equate or outperform the last workout ? and is that what you call overreaching ? Thanks.
Thank you so much for the great and above all FREE information, alot of the times it is so hard to see through all the bs in this industry. My hat off to you sir. Only the thing i still not uite understand is to what extent volume trumps the rest, i saw your reaction to andy ness. But this still left me somewhat confused. Consider following example: workout a: i bench 225x5 3 times which would amount to a total volume of 3375 lbs and workout b i bench 245x4 3 times which would mount to 2940 lbs as you can see the total volume is sinificantly less but for me a 20 pound increase on bench while only sacrificing a single rep is still "progress" but is it? since I am over the 60 percent intensity treshold but the total volume reduced? I am really trying to figure this out, hope to get an answer ;) above all keep doing what you doing it's much appreciated and i'm certaiinly not the only one.
Hey Layne, I really appreciate your objective approach to training. I was hoping to get some clarification regarding tracking volume in your training. To what extent do you track volume? Do you only track the volume of your main lifts or do you also include your assistance movements? For example on leg day, I would do squats and leg extensions. When recording my volume for my workout, would I include the volume from the leg extensions? Thanks for the help.
Layne, you've mentioned that the key to volume is progression. What would you say is your total number of sets for an entry block of your training as well as your final block (presumably your highest amount of volume)? And how long would each workout last for you on average? Most times I like to lift for about an hour. Much more than that and I start tapering off. Should I condition for longer workouts, and therefore higher volume? Over time, of course.
What's described as failure? Sloppy form or not being able to stand up from the bottom of a squat? Personally I stop my set as soon as I do a sloppy rep, nowadays on squat for example if my knees cave in or chest falls forward I call the set. Going beyond that point seems impractical because it means a significantly less amount of reps for the next set in comparison to if I left reps "in the tank". But if it's the last set I'm guessing it would probably be beneficial to go all out and throw form out the window (within reason lol). Jim Wendler's rule of thumb for keeping 2-3 in the tank for max weight sets is in my opinion the best way to go
According to this VLOG it's better to do 15sets of 10rep of bench 3x per week than doing 45sets of 10reps in one session? If my memory serves me correctly, recovery for optimal hypertrophy is 48hrs, regardless of DOMS. Hence why frequency + volume work synergisticaly. Also with DUP training on strength and power days would you increase the number of sets due to the intensity and lower volume per set, instead of 15 sets of 5 do 30 sets of 5? Thank you in advanced for all the knowledge you have shared.
Thanks, Layne. How do you equate volume for different exercises -- or does this only work if one does the same exercises pretty much in the same order.
Just a question about how time factors into this. If I maintain a threshold intensity of 60% HR, what would happen if I do the same volume over a longer period of time. Would a high-intensity short workout give the same results as opposed to a low-intensity long workout? Could doing a mix of high-intensity and low-intensity provide better results? Another thing I would like to address. Earlier you responded to a comment about keeping muscles under tension for a longer period of time (If volume is maintained, how does this effect strength and hypertrophy). However, in your response, it seemed that you assumed the rest between sets are the same for high tension vs. low tension. So if we do not make this assumption and allow the rest between each set to be enough to were I can maintain the equivalent amount of weight how would this effect strength and hypertrophy? Example: 5x5 of 315 with 2-3 seconds between reps and a 30 second rest between sets vs. 5x5 of 315 with 4-5 seconds between reps and a 45 second rest between sets. This some what falls into the first question.
Thank you Layne for your videos, and congratulations on your successes. I know you're a busy guy but are you planning on posting bodybuilding style training videos in the near future?
Hey Dr. Norton, where do you get this information from? (Obviously PhD, Experience etc) but i mean like where can I myself see the studies you are talking about? I would love to check these out!
good video layne! i actually thought volume is how many exercises you do in that workout, im a bit different i experimented on my body by going to failure each set, counted total reps and weight 1 week and the next week i stopped 1 to 2 reps off failure and i actually got 1 or 2 less total reps why is this? so i actually got 1 to 2 more total reps by gong to failure, should i keep training to failure each set? and by failure i mean performance failure good form failure
Hey Dr Layne, so how about when we peak for a competition? I remember Dr Yuri Verkhoshansky mentioning abt dropping the volume aft a concentrated phase of strength loading. So what do you recommend for a peak lets say three weeks out from a powerlifting comp? What should the ideal volume then be and again at what % of 1rm? Since Dr Verkhoshansky does not give specifics in his books.
Would doing a failure set at the end of each exercise be excessive as far as fatigue goes throughout the workout? I assume there's a difference in terms of muscle damage/fatigue when you go to failure with the same weight you used for the previous sets versus going to failure with say an additional two dropsets. The first option probably wouldn't compromise volume as heavily as the second would, correct?
How would metabolism factor into this? For example if someone was lean and had trouble hitting a caloric surplus couldn't increasing volume make it even harder for them to hit a caloric surplus as it would increase their metabolic capacity even further.
Gathering from your position on failure, do you suppose there is any merit in utilizing failure on uni-lateral or iso-lateral movements as opposed to compound movements?
I'd be interested to hear how you think this interacts with rest to maintain performance gains. This sounds a bit like the old Russian mentality of overreaching, but often they had to implement a period of backoff to actually let the performance gains from the increased volume manifest. How frequently do you deload, and how do you implement it?
Does the rep ranges effect whether it is more hypertrophy or strength? Because it doesn't seem like 4x8 would produce the same amount of strength gains as 8x4, if using the same weights for both sets, or vise versa for hypertrohpy?
My experience is that doing more volume is easy if you reduce the weight and just do more reps. For example if i do 1 rep with 100kg 1RM i m pretty tired after that and i did only 100kg of volume. If i do 10 reps with 10kg it doesn't challenge me and I have the same volume. Then I just do 10 sets and still am not challenged and have even a more crazy volume. So I m not that sure if volume tells that much. More reps and sets with less weight are less challenging than only a few reps and sets with a very high weight.
very informative thank you! i will try and implement this correctly. All things aside constant training to failure seems to be a precursor to injury (as im injured). Talking about injury I would love to hear your opinions on nutrition to treating injury (say tendon strain) and effective treatment there is so much bullshit out there? I use ye ol' ICE method, but wondering if there are any professional insights on the subject. Im sure I could google this information, but i seem to absorb it much better with your delivery. Thanks anyways Big fan!
Hey Layne! Just a question: For hypertrophy/strength, do you value TUT lower in the hierarchy for optimal progression? For example lifting 30lb every rep, and keeping a constant rep TUT speed of 4 seconds per rep: 6 sets X 6 reps = 1080lb TOTAL, 24 seconds TUT per SET. or 3 sets X 12 reps = 1080lb TOTAL, 48 seconds TUT per SET. Both have the same volume, however the TUT are different. I have read that optimal TUT for hypertrophy is around 30-70 seconds per SET. In regards to a hypertrophy/strength program, would it be optimal to include both of these in a program? ie. if you did the first set/rep range one week, and the second set/rep range the second week. Hope to hear from you. Thanks bud!
Just wondering, if you don't consider yourself a training expert, on what basis did you compile the programming template for PHAT, did the exercise selection/intensity/volume come from you or someone elses help?
Can you increase force on the muscle if you hold the weight in a different position? I.e., during a biceps curl, if I hold the dumbbell at the base of the weight handle, could that increase pressure on the muscle?
amount of assistance exercises that would be appropriate in order to get a good hypertrophy In a routine DUP bench press, deadlift, squat working 6 x 3 70%, 3 x 3 and 4 x 8 with 70%
Great video Layne. Interesting about the experiments with training volume. Based on your evidence, do you rate the Wendler 5 3 1 routine? E.g. 3 working sets of 5 reps then a 4th working set of the heaviest set from the previous 3 for AMAP/failure?
Ok, granted there is no scheduled increase in the amount of sets but as the amount of reps increase on the last working set for AMAP, this would surely increase the volume over time?
Total Volume for a muscle = Workout1 volume + Workout2 volume + ..... + WorkoutN Volume. so a proper training program should be build around progressive volume increase while incorporating other hypertrophy tools like failure.
I still feel that all 3 training variables (volume, frequency, intensity) are *equally* important, and that over emphasizing any one of them is the same mistake that Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer made when over emphasizing intensity.
What are your thoughts on decreasing training volume over time? Say you were on a very high frequency high volume overreaching program that is only maintainable for a short period of time like for example Smolov but wanted to decrease the volume slowly to maintainable levels. Or will the human body eventually recover and adapt to that overreaching training volume? Sorry this is kinda late
layne. if I am to do chest twice a week, I'm only able to manage 20 - 40 total reps (depending on intensity) per workout in order to be fresh for the next workout. Does 20 reps sounds a little low?
So lane, say all thugs being equal would increasing the volume of assistance work in exchange for intensity on the assistance work be useful on days where less total poundage is moved ? e.g doing 3X12 close grip bench instead of 3X8 on days where I bench 3X3 ?
+John Howarth Have you watched the video? If you have and your goals are aligned with the purpose of his discussion, now you can ask yourself the question of why shouldn't you track volume... This video is so comprehensive, such that I don't understand why some viewers complicate it so much or lack understanding.
biolayne - what do you recommend in terms of how often to switch from low reps/high weight to higher reps/lower weight. If I am trying to build muscle, is it ok to stick with lower reps for a while and keep increasing my weights?
What do you do if you reach a high amount of volume? E.g. if I increase my volume every week by 10%, in 10 weeks I would be at 259% of what my current volume is. It seems pretty logical that this can't continue forever and a limit is reached rather quickly. So if I reach a high amount of volume, what then? Is there a reset at some point or do I just keep some a lengthy high-volume workout plan indefinitely?
biolayne I just rewatched the video... Do you have any suggestion regarding the volume / sets where you think diminishing returns set in? As in more protein doesn't produce more muscle past a certain threshold? I now get that I should try to increase volume gradually, but is there a point where I should stop increasing volume in order to not get problems with recovery or other issues?
+MrBrotmafia it depends on the individual and on his/her training age.. Try to stay a little bit below you're MRV (maximum recoverable volume).. "Recoverable" meaning you can apply an overload your next session
Genuine question: So, for example, for bench press. Benching 4 plates vs. just the bar for tons of reps 405lbsx12x5 (24,300 lbs volume) vs. 45lbsx60x10 (27,000 lbs volume) Now, intuitively, the guy doing the 405x5x12 must likely have a huge chest to handle 405 at that volume. But I bet I know a lot of people who are not really that strong that can do 10 sets of 60 with the bar (myself, for example). But obviously the latter destroys the former in terms of just volume. So by the assumption that volume is the most important thing (and you should only increase intensity IF it does not negatively impact volume), why would a bodybuilder ever want to bench more than the bar? Or for any exercise, do over, say 30% 1RM? You can get way more volume way easier doing insanely light weights. Volume obviously plays a large role, but is it really so much more important than intensity?
again, i didn't say volume was the ONLY factor... just the major factor. Obviously there is a threshold of intensity at which you require to achieve in order for volume to be equated. We are not exactly sure where that is but if you are over 60% of your 1 rm you are likely safe.
biolayne Oh, alright. I honestly didn't really get that from the video at all. But thanks for the answer! It will be interesting to see what exactly research shows in terms of what the thresholds of intensity and volume are. Thanks a lot for the videos, Layne! I really enjoy them.
This makes sense for powerlifting, but what about bodybuilding with multi-exercise workouts targeting a muscle. Wouldn't the volume get skewed when factoring different exercises?
after thinking about this, I guess you would do your programming based on the volume of individual exercises as opposed to across an entire muscle group?
What do you think about Firas Zahabi's theory of weight training? Which he basically explains that if you can only do 3x10 pull ups, you do 3x5, because you're doing them every day and not every 2 or three days. I'm interested in what you think, and I'm actually going to try his idea on my biceps for the next month and see what happens.
@@biolayne1 lol that's fair, I haven't looked much into his work as a trainer. As someone who knows way more about body building than I do, what do you think is flawed in his theory? I wound suspect that it's the lack of hypertrophy to stimulate growth, regardless of the increased volume over the week, but I'm interested in what an actual doctor has to say about it from a scientific standpoint.
Layne, I held the first QBBA (Quads Bodybuilding Association) World Championships yesterday. It was great, I held the competition in the squat rack at my house. I won with 100% of the vote, the judge (myself) was very impressed with my conditioning. I am going to hold the 2nd World Championships today, I'm feeling confident that I will win again.
I demand a recount!
With volume comes great responsibility.
I'm stealing this quote. Good work, BloodGoneCold. I hope BloodGrowsWarm is on the horizon.
Great video, Layne.
I fell victim to the "go hard on every set" motto when I first started training. Not only was the lack of progression in later sets discouraging I wasn't noticing much change in my physique. After recording my weights and focusing on overall volume it not only made training sessions more enjoyable due to recovery bewtween sets it allows me to focus on the numbers I need to hit to progress. Hopefully anyone that is currently in the position I was sees this video and uses it!
Nice to hear someone that is actually educated in the "sciences" of lifting basically back up what I have always been saying. Volume is a very important factor in strength training... I always hate it when I hear someone tell me "that looked easy for you, you could have done another rep" and I respond "but if I get that rep I will lose that next set" and they look at me all confused..... like you said... Fail sets are a tool and should be used as such not a training doctrine that needs to be applied for every single set.
Probably one of the best explanations on what volume is and how to implement it. Bravo.
I am very pleasantly surprised with Dr. Norton's argument for volume. Most internet "experts" these days go against anything that reminds them of traditional bodybuilding values like failure,isolation ,pump and yes, high volume. If something has the label of powerlifting or olympic lifting (even if you do not compete in those) it is considered god given advise. On the other hand if something reminds them of traditional BB, is scoffed as suitable only "for steroid users". Yet it is evident that volume training works, ,whether the athlete is natural or not. I tried the fewer sets , more weight philosophy but I always got minor results. At first I persisted, because I believed internet articles from unqualified experts that insisted that volume was only for those with super genetics or on juice. I learned eventually that you must progressively built your tolerance to volume like you build tolerance to increased resistance from increasing weight. Layne just solidified my conclusions and observations with his scientific explanation.Muscle needs volume, period.
Could listen to this guy all day, him and Eric helms everything they say makes so much sense.
I was just conversing about the minimum and maximum "right now" effect of training and how counter-productive it can be to go past or consistently strive for the "max", just recently. This is a video that I wanted to see before I even knew it existed. Dr. Z is the man. I think him and Dr. Schoenfeld's approaches to training and periodization are my favorite and the most well-informed and customizable.
and - to your point on Failure - I couldn't agree more. I am pretty sure you and Dr. Wilson conversed upon this in your old podcast and I found myself nodding along as well. I LOVE the idea and the literature behind failure but it is too widely focused upon by its positives and not nearly enough on the negatives that it can have on your overall training regimen (but I guess that's just the case for every single variable in everything in this industry).
Thank you for this Layne - this is very much in line with what I've been teaching for years - very well articulated
The comments of people can be equally as entertaining but I love all your video logs!
This video completely changed my outlook on training and programming. Thank you Layne!
Great subject for your latest video log! Only makes sense to track everything so you can see what needs adjusting, rather than adjusting arbitrarily or guessing. Such great information. Thanks, Layne!
Dude, but are are indeed a training expert! You live it man!
Love your vids Doc I'm 40 years old and I have been training for a while I have always used progressive volume and grew 21 inch arms naturally had nice wheels before my sports injury keep the great vids coming
Wow. My notes from this lecture- Training Volume = Amount of weight X reps/set X # of sets. It's training volume that is the most important factor in hypertrophy in a hierarchy of factors. Good word on needing to realize there's a volumization cap (you said "threshold" but I think you meant a cap). (I think this connects with the law of diminishing returns maybe?) I must work at an appropriate progression. And progression is better measured in terms of training volume (and not, say, in strength). When doing other kinds of training (for ex. going to failure) I must not sacrifice that which is most important in hypertrophy which is training volume. So implement other kinds of training wisely without sacrificing the ultimate tool of volume.
There is so much new to me here that I'm eager to learn more and lift weights much more wisely. Thanks, Dr. Layne.
Very humble statements in the beginning about his expertise in training
Thank you for clarifying how to properly implement failure. I have seen too many people use failure the wrong way causing injury or training setbacks.
Always amazing info. This is where I come to learn.
This is the best video I have ever watched in regards to explaining volume vs failure! Love it :D I have had advise which is towards failure every set and I have also had advise in regards to overall volume and I found that I had my best results when I done a program where I NEVER went to failure except for last set. What happened was I got stronger each fortnight and gained size. I then plateaued as you do and was convinced to go back to lactic acid city which totally fucked my SNS and I found that my volume decreased heaps; however I thought that the constant bashing myself to failure would compensate for volume... nope, and this vid has helped me decide to stay away from busting myself to failure each set. Nice channel keep it up!
Layne always coming up with great videos...
This clarified a lot of questions I had but couldn't properly ask. Thanks again for the good work!!
This info is gold. I am going to start implementing this into my back workout tonight.
Thanks Layne!
I fully agree with you about volume being the most important thing and training to failure reduces down your ability to perform volume. But besides volume, other factors have to play a significant role in strength building and hypertrophy otherwise you could get big and strong doing 100 rep sets. I assume there must be a minimum amount of weight you need to use to efficiently gain strenghth and size, and if you train below that minimum, you don't build strength and size.
well if you watch some of Rich Piana's vids he does 100 rep drop sets. But I think the biggest problem with that is its not time efficient. if i do 10 reps with 100's vs 100 reps with 40's. i get about the same volume because the weight is heavier and the set didnt take 5 minutes.
bicmyflic25 Drop sets are a lot different than doing high reps with a light weight. I do drop sets on hack squats where I start with 6 plates on each side and work my way down to one. That's a lot different than doing 1 plate for 100.
there are other important factors, I never denied that... watch it again. I just said volume is the MOST important.
biolayne I'm agreeing with you. My question is how do these other factors impact strength and size? What is the optimal amount of volume vs. resistance? I'm sure it varies from person to person a bit, based on your training tolerance?
Erik Carlson
we simply don't know
this video definitely reassures the approach to my training. I don't track my training progress like you said we should (yes shame on me), but i do keep mental notes and i do lots of volume. 6-10 reps for 4 working sets usually per exercise and supersets.
great video, thanks
Everything you say is so spot on. i wish you did more of these videos
Sweet video, Layne! Thanks!
Dr. Norton, after listening to the Muscle College Radio episode where you discuss this with Dr. Wilson, total volume has become my progression metric like you suggest ... Ummm, best gains of my life :) I still can't believe you give this stuff out for free! Thanks!
This was just awesome
InB4 1lb for 5,000 reps
Hi Layne! very good video, i have a question regarding with progress and compensating volume. For example i do 4 sets of 4 to 6 reps in squat, what if for example with 200 kg i do 4 x 6 = 24 total reps and the next week i add some weight and only do 4x4 = 16 total reps ? should i add more sets so i reach the same amount of sets that i did in the past week,? in this case should i add 2 more sets so i can do 6 sets x 4 reps = 24? or its not necessary to compensate ? This wont affect my progress? because i if i dont add more sets to compensate i would be training with less volumen. Hope you can answer this silly question my friend. Take care!
Great video. Thanks Layne
Very concise, understandable and valuable information. Thanks for posting. -Cheers
Damn I really needed this information 10 years ago, I am breaking out my training journals and calculating my volume
Thanks for the video Layne, I'm looking forward to you doing more videos on training. Don't let me down! Also good job at nationals :)
Great video once again, thanks Layne
Thanks once again, Layne.
Jesus Christ, it's like watching the movie trailers before the movie on this guys channel
Oh you poor baby. Then don't watch if it's so traumatic. Sorry you had to sit through 15 seconds before the FREE info started LOL ;)
Apology accepted
ADblock?
Really enjoyed this talk. Volume is definitely an interesting subject, and Dr. Zourdos is a master at manipulating it and testing its limits. Also, I'd be a much better bodybuilder if his rules applied. Lol.
Great info!
Very informative! Thank you!
great video layne! i was just wondering about this topic earlier in the day and you helped me really clear up some things, Thank You!!
This is awesome bro, great job!
Hi Layne:
I'm just wondering if you could entertain a thought: something that has always bugged me about "volume" as the key regulator of hypertrophy is...well, I'm not sure how to make this clear...but it's at best an imperfect way of summarizing the actual experience and "language" of the musculoskeletal system. To drill down closer to the muscle cells themselves, their experience of the training is described/communicated in TIME and TENSION (through the appropriate cascades). While quantifying volume and resistance are objectively necessary for research purposes, you can do a repetition w/various techniques, all creating different tensions on the muscle cells; it seems this (albeit slight) discrepancy in languages leaves the door open for large misinterpretation of the data. In other words, what we may think of as volume being the/a prime variable in hypertrophy might actually be explained by the progressive recruitment of higher-threshold fibers--TENSION. Another possible example is occlusion training in which (in this theory) the low-threshold oxidative fibers are forced to yield in the hypoxic milieu, thus recruiting the higher-threshold fibers...again, creating increased tension on the fibers with greater hypertrophic potential. (This is of course different than the metabolic byproduct assumption.)
If this were true, then it could go a long way toward explaining discrepancies in the research and experience of others.
Sorry for the rambling. If any of it made sense, I'd enjoy your response.
Thanks
I like the video! For squats its been great to have more volume, I squatted 3x week for 6 months, 5x5, and make all kindz of gainzzz (strenght and size), now Im doing the same with bench which is my lagging lift, ist going to be like monday bench 5x5, wednesday incline 5x5, and then saturday again flat 5x5, congrats for the USAPL meet, it funny how you approuch your lift, you get nuts first! hahah greetings from south america
excellent informative vid as usual
Great video layne, thank you!
The one thing I've never understood regarding volume (and why I've never devoted time to tracking it specifically) is how to equate it across multiple exercises in the context of bodybuilding and hypertrophy. If you're performing leg presses, squats, and lunges, how can you track volume when angles of tension and absolute poundages differ (between machines and so on)?
Is there a way you might simplify the tracking to get a general view of volume? Would you just track the volume of one main exercise?
Good video - loving the inspiration for highly critical thinking and swole-itude.
My two major questions would be 1. Where does time under tension come into play in volume 2. What about volume outside of the gym like for someone who has a very strenuous job, how would this be accounted for?
Makes a lot a sense. Thanks
Great video as always. Thanks Layne :)
Amazing video
Awesome vid. Would it be okay to track volume of an entire workout such as "leg day", or would be tracking individual lifts be better?
Great video log Layne! Wanted to clarify a point that you made at the end, if the individual's training goal is volume but they are simultaneously utilising "sets to failure" as a secondary tool each time a workout is done, is that also inappropriate use of it and possibly hindering the opportunity to achieve greater training volume?
Fantastic video. Very solid/helpful points. I just subscribed to your podcast as well. You can never can have enough Layne Norton, right?
Layne, I agree as I have seen results when focusing on volume. My question is...in terms of measuring tonnage, should that be for just the main lifts? Like on my pull day, when hitting biceps at the end do I measure that separate, not at all or add it in with the weighted pull ups/rows? Good stuff and thanks!
I understand that we should progressively advance in terms of volume, but what happens in a specific workout ex: arm day -biceps curls- i observed in the first set that i couldn't perform as many reps as the previous workout with the same amount of weight, should i add a plus set to equate or outperform the last workout ? and is that what you call overreaching ? Thanks.
Brilliant Video :)
Thank you so much for the great and above all FREE information, alot of the times it is so hard to see through all the bs in this industry. My hat off to you sir.
Only the thing i still not uite understand is to what extent volume trumps the rest, i saw your reaction to andy ness. But this still left me somewhat confused. Consider following example:
workout a: i bench 225x5 3 times which would amount to a total volume of 3375 lbs and workout b i bench 245x4 3 times which would mount to 2940 lbs
as you can see the total volume is sinificantly less but for me a 20 pound increase on bench while only sacrificing a single rep is still "progress" but is it? since I am over the 60 percent intensity treshold but the total volume reduced?
I am really trying to figure this out, hope to get an answer ;)
above all keep doing what you doing it's much appreciated and i'm certaiinly not the only one.
Hey Layne, I really appreciate your objective approach to training. I was hoping to get some clarification regarding tracking volume in your training. To what extent do you track volume? Do you only track the volume of your main lifts or do you also include your assistance movements? For example on leg day, I would do squats and leg extensions. When recording my volume for my workout, would I include the volume from the leg extensions? Thanks for the help.
Layne, you've mentioned that the key to volume is progression. What would you say is your total number of sets for an entry block of your training as well as your final block (presumably your highest amount of volume)? And how long would each workout last for you on average? Most times I like to lift for about an hour. Much more than that and I start tapering off. Should I condition for longer workouts, and therefore higher volume? Over time, of course.
What's described as failure? Sloppy form or not being able to stand up from the bottom of a squat?
Personally I stop my set as soon as I do a sloppy rep, nowadays on squat for example if my knees cave in or chest falls forward I call the set. Going beyond that point seems impractical because it means a significantly less amount of reps for the next set in comparison to if I left reps "in the tank". But if it's the last set I'm guessing it would probably be beneficial to go all out and throw form out the window (within reason lol). Jim Wendler's rule of thumb for keeping 2-3 in the tank for max weight sets is in my opinion the best way to go
According to this VLOG it's better to do 15sets of 10rep of bench 3x per week than doing 45sets of 10reps in one session? If my memory serves me correctly, recovery for optimal hypertrophy is 48hrs, regardless of DOMS. Hence why frequency + volume work synergisticaly. Also with DUP training on strength and power days would you increase the number of sets due to the intensity and lower volume per set, instead of 15 sets of 5 do 30 sets of 5?
Thank you in advanced for all the knowledge you have shared.
Thanks, Layne. How do you equate volume for different exercises -- or does this only work if one does the same exercises pretty much in the same order.
Just a question about how time factors into this. If I maintain a threshold intensity of 60% HR, what would happen if I do the same volume over a longer period of time. Would a high-intensity short workout give the same results as opposed to a low-intensity long workout? Could doing a mix of high-intensity and low-intensity provide better results?
Another thing I would like to address. Earlier you responded to a comment about keeping muscles under tension for a longer period of time (If volume is maintained, how does this effect strength and hypertrophy). However, in your response, it seemed that you assumed the rest between sets are the same for high tension vs. low tension. So if we do not make this assumption and allow the rest between each set to be enough to were I can maintain the equivalent amount of weight how would this effect strength and hypertrophy? Example: 5x5 of 315 with 2-3 seconds between reps and a 30 second rest between sets vs. 5x5 of 315 with 4-5 seconds between reps and a 45 second rest between sets. This some what falls into the first question.
excellent vid
Thank you Layne for your videos, and congratulations on your successes. I know you're a busy guy but are you planning on posting bodybuilding style training videos in the near future?
Hey Dr. Norton, where do you get this information from? (Obviously PhD, Experience etc) but i mean like where can I myself see the studies you are talking about? I would love to check these out!
Hey Coach Layne. First up, thanks for everything. You're awesome. Secondly, I don't know why, but I would totally believe it if you were Batman.
hahahaha lol
good video layne! i actually thought volume is how many exercises you do in that workout, im a bit different i experimented on my body by going to failure each set, counted total reps and weight 1 week and the next week i stopped 1 to 2 reps off failure and i actually got 1 or 2 less total reps why is this? so i actually got 1 to 2 more total reps by gong to failure, should i keep training to failure each set? and by failure i mean performance failure good form failure
Hey Dr Layne, so how about when we peak for a competition? I remember Dr Yuri Verkhoshansky mentioning abt dropping the volume aft a concentrated phase of strength loading. So what do you recommend for a peak lets say three weeks out from a powerlifting comp? What should the ideal volume then be and again at what % of 1rm? Since Dr Verkhoshansky does not give specifics in his books.
Would doing a failure set at the end of each exercise be excessive as far as fatigue goes throughout the workout? I assume there's a difference in terms of muscle damage/fatigue when you go to failure with the same weight you used for the previous sets versus going to failure with say an additional two dropsets. The first option probably wouldn't compromise volume as heavily as the second would, correct?
How would metabolism factor into this? For example if someone was lean and had trouble hitting a caloric surplus couldn't increasing volume make it even harder for them to hit a caloric surplus as it would increase their metabolic capacity even further.
Gathering from your position on failure, do you suppose there is any merit in utilizing failure on uni-lateral or iso-lateral movements as opposed to compound movements?
I'd be interested to hear how you think this interacts with rest to maintain performance gains. This sounds a bit like the old Russian mentality of overreaching, but often they had to implement a period of backoff to actually let the performance gains from the increased volume manifest. How frequently do you deload, and how do you implement it?
yea... I talked about tapering
Does the rep ranges effect whether it is more hypertrophy or strength? Because it doesn't seem like 4x8 would produce the same amount of strength gains as 8x4, if using the same weights for both sets, or vise versa for hypertrohpy?
A lot of very interesting information. Thanks Layne :) So what are your thoughts on Mike Rashid, CT Fletcher, and the others, style of training?
My experience is that doing more volume is easy if you reduce the weight and just do more reps. For example if i do 1 rep with 100kg 1RM i m pretty tired after that and i did only 100kg of volume. If i do 10 reps with 10kg it doesn't challenge me and I have the same volume. Then I just do 10 sets and still am not challenged and have even a more crazy volume.
So I m not that sure if volume tells that much. More reps and sets with less weight are less challenging than only a few reps and sets with a very high weight.
very informative thank you! i will try and implement this correctly. All things aside constant training to failure seems to be a precursor to injury (as im injured). Talking about injury I would love to hear your opinions on nutrition to treating injury (say tendon strain) and effective treatment there is so much bullshit out there? I use ye ol' ICE method, but wondering if there are any professional insights on the subject. Im sure I could google this information, but i seem to absorb it much better with your delivery.
Thanks anyways
Big fan!
Hey Layne!
Just a question:
For hypertrophy/strength, do you value TUT lower in the hierarchy for optimal progression?
For example lifting 30lb every rep, and keeping a constant rep TUT speed of 4 seconds per rep:
6 sets X 6 reps = 1080lb TOTAL, 24 seconds TUT per SET.
or
3 sets X 12 reps = 1080lb TOTAL, 48 seconds TUT per SET.
Both have the same volume, however the TUT are different. I have read that optimal TUT for hypertrophy is around 30-70 seconds per SET. In regards to a hypertrophy/strength program, would it be optimal to include both of these in a program? ie. if you did the first set/rep range one week, and the second set/rep range the second week.
Hope to hear from you.
Thanks bud!
already addressed this in another comment
Just wondering, if you don't consider yourself a training expert, on what basis did you compile the programming template for PHAT, did the exercise selection/intensity/volume come from you or someone elses help?
Yes but what is and how do you determine “appropriate” progression? In layman’s terms as I consider myself a beginner
Can you increase force on the muscle if you hold the weight in a different position? I.e., during a biceps curl, if I hold the dumbbell at the base of the weight handle, could that increase pressure on the muscle?
amount of assistance exercises that would be appropriate in order to get a good hypertrophy
In a routine DUP
bench press, deadlift, squat
working 6 x 3 70%, 3 x 3 and 4 x 8 with 70%
What do you think of measuring volume as reps x sets x % of one rep max? This way you could compare different exercises and individuals
Great video Layne. Interesting about the experiments with training volume. Based on your evidence, do you rate the Wendler 5 3 1 routine? E.g. 3 working sets of 5 reps then a 4th working set of the heaviest set from the previous 3 for AMAP/failure?
it's fine for beginning work, but it does not have programmed increases in volume over time from my understanding
Ok, granted there is no scheduled increase in the amount of sets but as the amount of reps increase on the last working set for AMAP, this would surely increase the volume over time?
Total Volume for a muscle = Workout1 volume + Workout2 volume + ..... + WorkoutN Volume. so a proper training program should be build around progressive volume increase while incorporating other hypertrophy tools like failure.
I still feel that all 3 training variables (volume, frequency, intensity) are *equally* important, and that over emphasizing any one of them is the same mistake that Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer made when over emphasizing intensity.
It does not matter what you 'feel'. It matters what the data says.
What are your thoughts on decreasing training volume over time? Say you were on a very high frequency high volume overreaching program that is only maintainable for a short period of time like for example Smolov but wanted to decrease the volume slowly to maintainable levels. Or will the human body eventually recover and adapt to that overreaching training volume? Sorry this is kinda late
layne. if I am to do chest twice a week, I'm only able to manage 20 - 40 total reps (depending on intensity) per workout in order to be fresh for the next workout. Does 20 reps sounds a little low?
Doesn't volume cause metabolic stress? How are these different? Thank you, great video.
Do you suggest training through soreness? I have wondered if the low pH in muscles due to lactic acid would have an effect on muscle enzymes?
just depends on the context. that's not a yes/no question
So lane, say all thugs being equal would increasing the volume of assistance work in exchange for intensity on the assistance work be useful on days where less total poundage is moved ? e.g doing 3X12 close grip bench instead of 3X8 on days where I bench 3X3 ?
for hypertrophy yes, but for strength... do more volume on the lift you want to get stronger on
Should you be tracking volume for every single lift you do? should you track the volume per workout or per exercise?
+John Howarth Have you watched the video? If you have and your goals are aligned with the purpose of his discussion, now you can ask yourself the question of why shouldn't you track volume...
This video is so comprehensive, such that I don't understand why some viewers complicate it so much or lack understanding.
biolayne - what do you recommend in terms of how often to switch from low reps/high weight to higher reps/lower weight. If I am trying to build muscle, is it ok to stick with lower reps for a while and keep increasing my weights?
stay tuned, next few vids will address this
What do you do if you reach a high amount of volume? E.g. if I increase my volume every week by 10%, in 10 weeks I would be at 259% of what my current volume is. It seems pretty logical that this can't continue forever and a limit is reached rather quickly. So if I reach a high amount of volume, what then? Is there a reset at some point or do I just keep some a lengthy high-volume workout plan indefinitely?
MrBrotmafia did you watch the whole video?
you are not adding an appropriate amount of volume, that is entirely too much to add each week.
biolayne I just rewatched the video... Do you have any suggestion regarding the volume / sets where you think diminishing returns set in? As in more protein doesn't produce more muscle past a certain threshold? I now get that I should try to increase volume gradually, but is there a point where I should stop increasing volume in order to not get problems with recovery or other issues?
+MrBrotmafia it depends on the individual and on his/her training age.. Try to stay a little bit below you're MRV (maximum recoverable volume).. "Recoverable" meaning you can apply an overload your next session
MrBrotmafia kk
Hey Doc I love this style of training I've been doing it for years could you point me to an article on the theory of this particular training method
So after you did your 4 sets of squats for the day, would you call it day or did you do assistant lifts?
Genuine question:
So, for example, for bench press. Benching 4 plates vs. just the bar for tons of reps
405lbsx12x5 (24,300 lbs volume) vs. 45lbsx60x10 (27,000 lbs volume)
Now, intuitively, the guy doing the 405x5x12 must likely have a huge chest to handle 405 at that volume. But I bet I know a lot of people who are not really that strong that can do 10 sets of 60 with the bar (myself, for example). But obviously the latter destroys the former in terms of just volume.
So by the assumption that volume is the most important thing (and you should only increase intensity IF it does not negatively impact volume), why would a bodybuilder ever want to bench more than the bar? Or for any exercise, do over, say 30% 1RM? You can get way more volume way easier doing insanely light weights.
Volume obviously plays a large role, but is it really so much more important than intensity?
again, i didn't say volume was the ONLY factor... just the major factor. Obviously there is a threshold of intensity at which you require to achieve in order for volume to be equated. We are not exactly sure where that is but if you are over 60% of your 1 rm you are likely safe.
biolayne Oh, alright. I honestly didn't really get that from the video at all. But thanks for the answer! It will be interesting to see what exactly research shows in terms of what the thresholds of intensity and volume are.
Thanks a lot for the videos, Layne! I really enjoy them.
This makes sense for powerlifting, but what about bodybuilding with multi-exercise workouts targeting a muscle. Wouldn't the volume get skewed when factoring different exercises?
after thinking about this, I guess you would do your programming based on the volume of individual exercises as opposed to across an entire muscle group?
Sandie Lou
100% correct, too hard to compare across exercises.
How does rest come into play as a variable in muscle hypertrophy?
What do you think about Firas Zahabi's theory of weight training? Which he basically explains that if you can only do 3x10 pull ups, you do 3x5, because you're doing them every day and not every 2 or three days.
I'm interested in what you think, and I'm actually going to try his idea on my biceps for the next month and see what happens.
he's actually an idiot
@@biolayne1 lol that's fair, I haven't looked much into his work as a trainer. As someone who knows way more about body building than I do, what do you think is flawed in his theory? I wound suspect that it's the lack of hypertrophy to stimulate growth, regardless of the increased volume over the week, but I'm interested in what an actual doctor has to say about it from a scientific standpoint.