Karamanlı Turkish: Medieval Turkish written in Greek letters
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- Опубликовано: 19 май 2023
- Turks and Greeks argue about many things: whether Hagia Sophia is a mosque or a church, whether it’s Istanbul or Constantinople, whether baklava is Turkish or Greek, and the list goes on.
However, in this video, I talk about something that both Turkish and Greek cultures have in common: Karamanlı Turkish (a.k.a Karamanlıca or Karamanlidika).
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© Video created by turk chap 
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I remember reading about the Karamanlides and their history as a whole. They seem to be very close to us while very far from us in the same time. You gained yourself a sub and i hope you continue to highlight out historical history and history of the others that lived under us.
Thank you and thanks for subscribing :)
Yes, I will make many more videos like this about Türkiye 🇹🇷😀
@@turkchapwe are Greeks and Hittites we have nothing to do with the people of central Asia (Turks) we are very much descendants of the hunter of Anatolia and Christians and Muslims religion does not change the race nor the genes
@@user-ug2mz9in6m Well Greeks don't belong to Anatolia as well. You see they came as colonisers because of the population boom. Hittites on the other hand natives to the lands. Hittites are a key aspect in the history of Anatolia and we include them in our culture. Turks who came from Central Asia are now natives themselves to these lands. We as a species came from Africa so yeah. Also have a nice day friend.
@@Atabey381 the Greeks started from Anatolia, anatolia is a Greek word the whole world started from Africa but the Turkic belong to central Asia not Anatolia like the Greeks and Hittites belong the children of Anatolian hunter gatherers
@@user-ug2mz9in6m No Greeks didn't start from Anatolia you can look up to the net if you want. It is true that there were colonies established by the Greeks but their homeland is in Modern Day Greece not in Anatolia. In those times Anatolia was ruled by its indegionous habitants like the Hittites which has questionable connections to the Turks of the Central Asia. Greeks on the other hand was in Anatolia because of their population boom. So yeah Hittites were indeed indeginous to this lands but Greeks? No i wouldn't say that according to the data we have on their colonisation efforts.Their colonisation begun in 8th century BCE if you don't believe look it up.
Thank you for being objective, komsu. Greetings from Greece.
My family from my fathers side was Karamanlides and they spoke turkish... but they didn't identify themselves as Turkish. From my mother side was pontic from Trabzon... and they spoke pontic greek and russian. In general in Greece existing even now a days many dialects...but as you said... the main criteria was the religion...
Hi neighbor greetings from Greece 🇹🇷🇬🇷🍀
Just one comment to do mostly with the choice of a word. In the exchange of population, the people didn’t simply go back to Greece. They actually left their ancestral homes in Asia Minor to go to Greece. The Greeks lived in Asia Minor for centuries. It’s wasn’t as if they went back to where they came from, a few years earlier. In reality despite being Greek they went to the Greek State as refugees.
Exactly!
Well said, a very important point that should’ve been clearly emphasised.
"There is no Hellenic origin in Anatolia, except for some Aegean coasts. They have been Hellenized by Orthodoxy," says Dr. Georgios Nakracas.The emperor's daughter, Anna Komnena, wrote in her diary that "the Christian Turks were defeated because they left the army and went to the Seljuk side" for the Battle of Manzikert in 1071.The same event was repeated in 1176.2 Greek Prof Abstains remained at the international scientific meeting.Prof Dimitri Kitsikis and Prof Evangelia BALTA, who died in 2021 (His own origin is also Orthodox Turkish).There is a lot of pressure from the Greek state. Even those living in Komotini and Xanthi do not accept them as Turks.However, with the agreement of January 30, 1923, sent 50,000 Muslims of Hellenic origin to Turkey.It is not possible to explain anything to a mentality that considers even the Gagauz and Çıtak Turks taken from Thrace as Greeks rather than Turks.
@@dimitrisk.5745 We Turks have lived in different geographies, with a wide variety of people, and we still live. We have no idea of making anyone Turkish. It has not happened in history. We do not interfere with anyone's language or religion. There are still Turks in different religions.There are cities, football clubs, etc. that organize festivals and say that there are many Turks in Europe, although they are not Turkish and do not speak Turkish.300.000 people out of 1.500.000 people taken from us with the agreement of January 30, 1923 did not know Greek at all. They are 100% Turkish. We say this. History and international scientists have accepted this. DNA does not determine race. It determines geography.Turks have very distinctive features. I will write two of them. 1- Tuberculum Turcum. 2- Lactose Intolerance.. For this reason, they invented Yoghurt. But there is such an animosity towards Turks that it is accepted that the Bulgarians invented YOGURT.Ask the scientists. The Bulgarians are the first Muslims to become Turks. The Bulgarians are Turks. But after 1910, the most persecution was done by the Bugars who became Slavic to us. For this reason, the Bulgarian mountain in Turkey was named BOLKAR
Who made these people who lived together as friends for 1000 years as enemies? Why is this hostility still being made? Who were the gainers and the losers?Those who broke up the Ottoman Empire and took the oil. Why did Greece start invading Turkey with an army of 200,000 in 1919? Why. At that time, Greek generals and statesmen were against this war. But they found Venizalos. Can it be said that it is a coincidence that Mitsotakis and Bakoyannis, the grandchildren of Venizalos' older sister, who is 14 years older, are now found?Turkey is full of US military bases under the pretext that it will invade Greece. Why should we take Greece? Who can resist if we want to buy it right now? Greece takes the rocks 100 meters off the Turkish coast. It has thousands of islands in the huge Aegean Sea.
But they say the Mediterranean is mine. But there are no doctors on the islands. Sometimes Meis etc. to Turkey. patients are brought.The islands are so close to Turkey that if we go out with civilians and boats, who will resist?Which soldier can kill that many civilians.. Greece 10 million... His army marched to take Istanbul. Istanbul is 18 million. If you come, you will be lost. Greece will be empty.Do you need all these dreams? The facts are very different. Last holiday, there was a picture and news in the Greek newspaper. 9,000 Turks went to Lesbos in one day. With their cars. Ferries cannot find a pier to berth. All the islands are full of Turkish Tourists. Greeks are cunning. They rent out their houses on the islands and buy a house in Turkey. Greek companies are in Turkey and have banks.
Very interesting video. Thankyou. Greetings from Greece🇹🇷🇬🇷♥️
Thank you! Greetings from Türkiye 🙏🏻
Fascinating. I have wandered about the people and their poor fate in the population exchange. I did not know they wrote in Turkish using Greek letters. I am travelling to Cappadocia in a weeks time and I hope to find some of their writing. Thank you for your videos
The Turkish of this ethnic group contains much older Turkish vocabulary which was no longer used by the Muslim Oghuz Turks. In this regard, there are also informative writings from that time. I strongly assume that this ethnic group are the descendants of those soldiers of Turkish origin who were in the service of the Byzantines. The Byzantines had contacts under the Göktürks from the 7th century. We know that in the united struggle against the Persians, a large delegation of Göktürk soldiers with wives and children settled in Byzantine Anatolia to serve in the Byzantine army. If Karamanlid is more of an Oghuz dialect, we can omit everything from the 11th century onwards, since the Turkish-speaking soldiers/mercenaries in Byzantine service from that time onwards tended to speak the Kypchak dialect and were settled there from Moesia. Thank you for the informative video.
Συγχαρητηρια, φίλε μου, έχουμε πολλα κοινά, ας προχωρήσουμε μαζί.
🙏🏻
Thank you for your work!
You deserve more subs man
Thank you! Hopefully in the future 🙏🏻 😀
It wasn't only the Karamanlides who they didn't speak any Greek. There were also from other regions like Western Pontus. The Pontic Greeks of this area were speaking also only Turkish.
They weren't only the Karamanlides that they had difficult time in Greece after the exchange. Most of the refugees had difficulties by the locals. The new settlers had huge difficulties in the beginning.
They were called Turkish seeds.
Similarly they were Turks who they went to Turkey and new only Greek. Most famous of them were from Crete.
Nice documentary.
Situations are diffferent. Pontic Greeks were well kown to lose their language in a very recent period of time. Greeks speaking Pontians used to tell which villages were former Greek speakers that turned to speak Turkish. Also Cretans used to be natives of the island and Greek converts to Islam. There is no records of considerable Turkish settlement on the island.That means Cretans were simply Muslim Greeks. On the other hand, Karamanlides spoke only Turkish since the dawn of their known history. Neither Karamanlides nor outer sources indicate a language shift or a language change among Karamanlides. Karamanlides were always Turkophone. Although they were surrouned by Greek speaking Orthodox settlements, Turkish were Karamanlides' native language. Byzantine sources mention Christian Turks who were mercenaries of Byzantine army from Pecheneg, Uz and Cuman tribes were paid by lands given to them time to time and they were mostly settled in Innner Anatolian steppe regions. Were all descendents of those settled Christian Turks assimilated into mainstream Byzantine society? No, contrarily there are also records that showed that they retained their identity until 1200s. All of these can explain origins of Karamanlides. Karamanlides are descendents of those Orthodox Turkish soldiers of Byzantine Empire, They are Christian Turks who maintained Turkish among Greek speakers and Christian faith among Muslim Turks.
@@nadirhikmetkuleli7335 I think your arguments are only theories, based on your opinion and not in real documents.
The producer of the video presented sources of the time and only one describe them as Turks and he was a Turk himself if I remember correct.
There are also academic historians who they use as an argument that is more likely for the conquerors to change their cultural habits and not the conqueror.
About your argument, you forget to mention that they were writing Turkish with Greek letters and not with the Turkic or Arabic system.
Also if it was about the Turkish mercenaries, how many of those where? Because usually mercenaries consist a few portion of an army and not so many thousands. Additionally these mercenaries who they changed their religion happened to be only in Kapadokia?
Anyway it really doesn't matter to me. They are what they feel to be, like everyone else. My comment meant to be historical supplemental to the video and not critical.
@@user-jf6yv8rj2sturkic people were nomadic ,nomads are known throughout history as people who moved a lot and adopted many cultural aspects from the people they conquered ,they never cahnged the ethnic composition of the places they conquered
@@wankawanka3053 Sure! What ever you say! If you wanna believe that they only adopted the cultural aspects and nothing more, noone can change your mind.
But unfortunately they didn't do only that.
And if they ever adopted any cultural aspect...
Πολύ ενδιαφέρον βίντεο. Συγχαρητήρια για τη δουλειά σου.
very interesting video, may peace be upon all Balkan countrys, greetings from Bulgaria
That was very interesting! Thank you!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very interesting and very significant information. Thanks very much.
Glad you liked it! Thanks
Karamanlides are not the only Turkic-speaking Greeks, there are also the Urums, that can be found in Crimea and Georgia. Greeks in isolation from major Greek population centers, lost their language but kept their identity, religion, and culture. It can be compared to how the Jews in Europe spoke Yiddish, a Germanic language unrelated to Hebrew. Great channel, keep it up!
Karamanlides were most likely Hellenized Turcopoles
Urums are turkic,rumeys are greeks rumeys live with urums and everyone suppose rumeys are also urum no urums are turk rumeys are greek
@@papazataklaattiranimamAs the video mentions, most historians agree that they are Greeks.
@@auto952 I did not say anything for certain and did not say that they are Greek . I mentioned both views and said that my research showed me that the Greek view is more accepted in the world. But this is just my personal experience upon reading some sources. It does not mean that I say that they are Greeks :)
The main point of this video is to show an interesting cultural thing from the past. The origin of the Karamanlides is not the main discussion.
Them being Turkish or Greek does not change anything really at this point.
@@auto952 urums and karamanids both orthodox turk
Thank you for the video. As someone who administers one of the biggest projects on the genetics of Anatolia, the Balkans and the Caucasus, I have seen many Anatolian Greek genetic results and also have read all the academic papers dealing with their genetics. So far I have never seen a fully Central Anatolian Greek genetic result with clear Turkic mix, and many of those tested have Turcophone (Karamanlides) origins. So, after seeing these genetic results, I have come to the conclusion that the theory of linguistic change of many Anatolian Greeks to Turkish is the only viable one to explain the Karamanlides origins.
Simplest explanation. But not true. Imagine that Turcophone mercenaries of Byzantine empire intermarried to local women for centuries. They maintained the languge but not DNA of their ancestors. DNA is open to dilution.
@@nadirhikmetkuleli7335 Turkic mercenaries of the Eastern Roman Empire were never populous or of politically high status to change the language of most of the local population to Turkish (most of the Central Anatolian Greeks had switched to Turkish before the late Ottoman times and in many other parts of Anatolia too Greeks had switched to Turkish by then), and, more importantly, the Turkic mercenaries themselves did not preserve their Turkic language long in the Eastern Roman Empire, they usually switched to Greek within one or two generations (and converted to Orthodox Christianity) and married local Greek women. The most plausible explanation for the Turcophony of the Greeks of most parts of Anatolia since sometime before the late Ottoman times in light of the historical records and genetics is the centuries-long Muslim Turkish rule in Anatolia. In the case of modern Anatolian Turks at least we see some Turkic genetic mix even though the bulk of their ancestry is local (Anatolian Greek and Armenian), but modern Anatolian Greeks and Armenians, including the ones descended from the Turcophones, usually show no Turkic genetic mix in tests.
What a great video. Truly beautiful and most of all informative. My great great grandparents were Karamanlides, and they had pretty hard time here in Greece, as my Grandma said to me. Something intersting is that my ancestors were billingual ( they could also speak Greek ) but their daily language were Turkish. Nowadays, karamanlides are lost in history, almost all of them mixed with local Greeks or with other Asia minor Greeks. Me for example, I'm just 1/8 karamanlis. May we, the 2 nations, find peace among our similarities.
Thank you! 🙏
A very good account!!! You have great content, greetings from a greek chap
Thank you :)
I had recently read a DNA study of this group that showed Karaman group to be native anatolian. They are byzantine anatolian orthodox that adopted Turkish. We don't need to speculate given advances in biotechnology. Great video!! Love from Greece!
I was hoping for exactly this kind of information. Thanks
Simplest explanation. What a Greek nationalist would like to hearç. But not true. Imagine that Turcophone mercenaries of Byzantine empire intermarried to local women for centuries. They maintained the languge but not DNA of their ancestors. DNA is open to dilution.
You don't claim that all Anatolians just prefer to speak Turkish, do you? Almost all of those who came in 1071 do not reach 10% of the population. I also had DNA done. I turned out to be local and Turkish. But let's face it, Rome was also an invader. and pre-Roman We know that there were ethnic identities speaking differently in these lands. The Etruscans are a branch of the Lydians. Like the Trojans. And I think they were already speaking a language close to Turkish. Before Manzikert, there were Pechenegs and Uzs among the Byzantine soldiers. these were Pecheneg mercenaries byzantine soldiers. and they sided with the Turks. Because we are from the same lineage. I took revenge on Troy, the famous promise of the Conqueror during his conquest of Istanbul. Western Historians wrote texts saying that the grandchildren of Troy came to take their revenge. These are available in historical sources.
Nice video, Good job.
great video and channel, carry on 💪
Thanks, will do!
Learning is a continuous process. I learned something new. A fascinating piece of history delivered in an unbiased and honest manner.
A very informative video. What about the Karamanids that were reported to have settled in Cappadocia during Seljuk times from the Black Sea?
So in short, they are native anatolian that at some time became hellenized and adopted the christian faith. And at another time they adopted the turkish language. Indeed an interesting people
To become hellenized is to become greek. But this people weren't turkified completely. Only by language. They used Greek Alphabet.
Excellent. Thank you.
Congratulations for an excellent video. Great job. I am Greek from Athens. My grandfather was born in Smyrna. In 1922, to save himself, he crossed Chios.( Sakuz Island ) . We are waiting for more videos. You have our Respect. Greetings from Greece .
Friend, I would like to remind you that Greek soldiers burned that beautiful Smyra while fleeing in the first world war.
@@TUNC66 My friend, reminding me of something I have not experienced is impossible. But I will tell you that I know exactly what happened in Smyrna. I got my name from my grandfather who lived in Smyrna. He lost his whole family there when he was young. He told me exactly what happened then so I know. If you really want to know what happened, we can discuss peacefully.
@@mrloda8-Paraschos First of all, I want to say that I am sorry for your grandfather's family.Unfortunately, both sides suffered losses,we should be friends now without a doubtwe should be able to go to each other.
There is no Ottoman, Byzantine, Roman or soviet union anymore, and their era is over.
Now we are here Greece Turkey Russia Italy Let's try to live in peace and harmony with the beautiful aspects of our history.
@@TUNC66 Thank you very much and I really agree with what you say. I am a sεaman and I have been to Ceyhan and in yalova many times and the people were very kind and hospitable when we told them that we are from Yunnanistan. As for my grandfather who I said before, he passed across from Smyrna to the island of Chios where I was born many years later. The island you call Sakuz Island . I wish health and happiness to all of us. And of course war stay far from us. Merhaba.
@@mrloda8-Paraschos It is a great pleasure for me, my dear neighbor.Γειά σου.
Dostum çok profesyonel iş çıkarmışsın eline emeğine sağlık.
Çok teşekkür ederim 🙏🏻
Mother Kadinko speaks Turkish fluently and she says “we spoke Turkish in Cappadocia” at the end of the video. On top of it she recites a prayer which is part of Turkish folklore.
Karamanlı Turkish. That is awesome. Thanks so much.
Fascinating history.
Interesting video. Also Greece has had two prime ministers with the surname Karamanlis. They probably were of that origin.
No , both are makedonians from Doric tribe
@@user-ug2mz9in6m
don't talk nonsense You Macedonians have zero historical knowledge.
Probably.
@@user-ug2mz9in6mliving in Macedonia doesn't necessarily mean Macedonian ancestry. Many many pontians, cappadocians and other greeks went to Macedonia and stay to this day.
Sadly there is no Greek prime minister from Asia Minor or Pontic descent.
What about the names used among the Karamanli people? Are they rather Turkic or Islamic or Greek names?
This is also an important clue for origin of Karamanli people, I guess.
Müslim Turks are using Hebrew, Arabic and Persian names. Are they Hebrew, Arabic or Persian? Greeks are using Hebrew names from Bible. Are they Hebrew?
But the fact is that everyone forgets that the Tukri and Turrukeans existed in Mesopotamia. At that time they were expelled to Anatolia by the Guti. In Persia there is even evidence that wars were waged against this people. They are the ancestors of the Turks before they moved on to Asia and Europe. But nobody in Europe wants to hear anything about that.
aynen kanki türk tarih tezi hatta sümerler de türk :DD Türkleri rezil etmekten başka bir şey yaptığınız yok ya
Some ethno-religious groups, when outnumbered by Turks, did accept the Turkish vernacular through a gradual process of acculturation. While the Greeks of the Pelo ponnese, Thessaly, Epirus, Macedonia, Thrace, and the west Anatolian lit toral continued to speak and write in Greek, the Greeks of Cappadocia (Karaman) spoke Turkish and wrote Turkish in Greek script. Similarly, a large majority of the Armenians in the empire adopted Turkish as their vernacular and wrote Turkish in Armenian characters, all efforts to the contrary by the Mkhitarist order notwithstanding. The first novels published in the Ottoman Empire in the mid-nineteenth century were by Armenians and Cappodocian Greeks; they wrote them in Turkish, using the Armenian and Greek alphabets. In areas heavily populated by Turks, vernacular Turkish naturally be came the lingua franca even without state-sponsored promotion or imposition.
Yazdıklarınız doğru değil.Onlar Avar,Bulgar,Peçenek,Kuman-Kıpçak,Uz Türkleridir.Bir kısmı Doğu Roma ve Bizans tarafından paralı asker olarak Balkanardan getirilen yerel kızllarla da evlemesine müsaade edilen Türkofon,Türkolos denilen ve Müslüman Oğuzların 1071 den önce gelip püskürtüldüğü ,kalanlarının Ortodoks olduğu kişilerdir.Osmanlının edrak-ı bi idrak dedi-i kişilerdir.Andavallı sözü buna delildir.Bugü Aktaş ola bu yerden İstanbul,İzmir Bursa ya çalışmaya gidenler bakkalık -manavlık yaparlar az konuşur(diğer Manav denilen kişiler ile karıştırılmasın) bir şey sorulduğun da bön bön bakarlardı.Balıklı da mezar taşları vardır.Samatya civarında otururlardı.
The Karamanli were not the only group that spoke only Turkish that came to Greece from Turkey during the exchange. For example, the people from Bafra also spoke only Turkish. We call them Bafrali. But in general we call everyone Turkophoni ( Turkish speakers) for simplicity sake.
But I personally always believed that the Karamanli were Turkish people who converted to Christianity. Now its hard to tell, because most Greeks have intermaried, but some of the people I knew from the older generations looked more Turkish than most people from Turkey. And I don't mean dark skin and middle eastern looking. I mean slanty eyes and mongolic looking.
Didn't bafralis(turkish speaking pontics) had made one of the most dangerous gang group in the black sea that was terrorising local turks and fight for independent?
I totally agree that they were probably Turkish. Because, there are some Turkic elements in their churches which represent the old Turkish traditions. For example, there are several churches in Central Anatolia (specifically in city of Nigde) which they have symbols related to Turkish mythology. These symbols belonged to the pre-islamic Turks. So, I presume that they are obviously different than other churches or Christian communities in Turkey in that regard. The rest of the world assume that Turks are only muslim. However, there are Christian Turks like Gagavuz people in Moldova and Ukraine too. Not just in Anatolia. Also, there are some Turkic groups still have the faith of old pagan Turkic religion. Because of that, it is not so weird that Karamanlides people would be considered Turkish Christians.
According to the Dutch scholar Marcus Zuerius van Boxhorn, who lived in the 17th century, European languages had a unity of origin with Turkish. At that time in Europe many people, under the influence of the Bible, believed that Hebrew was the root of all languages. However, van Boxhorn opposed that languages derive from a language, such as Hebrew and came to conclusion that Turkish, Latin, Greek, Germanic, Slavic, Celtic, Baltic Persian derive from a common ancient language called Scythian. To prove the common root between these languages and by comparing the etymologies, grammer, inflectional patterns, comgenetic analysis he found similarities suggesting a relationship. Van Boxhorn first presented his theory to his friend Claudius Salmasius in 1637. Ten years later in 1647, he published his theory the 'Scythian Theory' into three parts. Later, Claudius Salmasius added Sanskrit to Marcus Zuerius van Boxhorns Scythian Theory. Scottish scientist James Burnet (Lord Monboddo) had introduced Scythian Theory in Britain in the early 18th century. The British invaded India in the late 18th century. They began to colonize and in the early 19th century, controlled most of India and became an imperialist power that ruthlessly exploited its resources. An Englishman named Sir William Jones, who served as a judge in Bengal at the time the British began to colonize India, inspired by van Boxhorn the Scythian Theory ², pushed foward that Sanskrit, Greek, Latin and Persian was derived from a common root and was associated with European languages. William Jones was also the first to suggest an "Aryan migration" to India This view would be defended by the colonial rulers later endorsed by Herbert Hope Risley. However, Turkish was suddenly not among theses languages anymore This is because William, working for the UK: Jones's own country's imperialist interests. The Ottoman Empire, in the 18th century, posed a great threat and the Turks had to be dismanteld from Europe. Most importantly, it was known that there were large oil deposits on Ottomans territory. Therefore, the distortion of history and linguistics, started with the colonial policy of the British. Later, many European pseudo-scientists began to put forward similar theories. By the early 1900s, Proto Indo-Europeans and Proto Indo-Europeans developed/fabricated theories that even the Old Anatolian languages belonged to these indo european languages But they have not been able to put foward a scientific document, such as a record, document, or inscription of thr existence of an Proto Indo-European language, there is no evidence. Therefore, the words that western scientists put a star on his head, claiming to be PIE Indo European (words) are not based on any source. Just İmaginary/fantasy/invented products. In this respect, linguistics and history have never been a true science in the West. The interests of the imperialist western countries various history theses were produced. Of these The first was Friedrich Schlegel's Exodus Theory. According to this theory, which he established in the early 19th century, Indo-The European Language Family originated in India and through Central Asia, the Black Sea steppes and Anatolia spread to Europe. Later Marija Gimbutas in 1956 came with the Kurgan Theory, which stated that the indo europeans tamed the horse and that the kurgans belonged to the The Indo-Europeans, originated in the steppes, the Caucasus and the west of the Urals, black Sea and from there it spread throughout the world. According Colin Renfrew's Anatolian Theory 1987, the Indo-European Language family spread from Anatolia to the world in 7000 BC. What is common in these theories is that Turks and Turkish was deliberately excluded. Thus, Marcus Zuerius van Boxhorn's scientific Scythian Theory, for the sake of imperialism: Turks and Turkish language are excluded and their unscientific, ridiculous, absurd theory turned into a theory that shouldn't even be considered a theory. Indo-European Theory, targeting Turks planned organizaed with only aim to remove the Turks from history PIE theory can never be confirmed on a scientific basis. Because the missing language in this theory is Turkish and Turkish is the only unifying element. Turkish is the ancestor of all these languages.. Thus, the Indo-European theory cannever be proved, only imposed. This is what is clearly happening today. (Gerda Hassler (Ed.). History of Linguistics 2008: Selected papers from the eleventh International Conference on the History of the Language Sciences, 2008, Potsdam. Volume 115, Studies in the History of the Language Sciences. John Benjamin Publishing, 2011.)
Well said. Still eyes will be blind, ears will be deaf for the concocted language makers and unfair historians. Tur/Turanian/ Turkish language is the Atta language. Turkish is the Sun Language.❤❤
Most of those theories are now outdated and debunked.
Although historians accept the coming year of Turks to Anatolia 1071 by defeating the Byzantium army, this is not true. Centuries ago before that date Turks came to Anotolia. Some passed by to Europe and landed Bulgaria, Greece, Macadonia, Bosnia, Albania. Some stayed in Anatolia and met Greeks. The newcomer Turks were impressed from Greeks and accepted Orthodox Christianity. It is not known if they were Shamanists or Muslims. Those unspoilt Middle Asian Turkish speaking Karaman Turks wrote Turkish using Greek alphabeth, read Bible and prayed in Turkish in their churches. During the indipendence war they supported the Turkish army against Greeks.
In 1922 Turkey and Greek governments made an agreement for the exchange of populations. Turkey sent 800.000 Greeks to Greece and Greece 600.000 Turks to Turkey. Turkey included 200.000 Christian Karaman Turks to the Greek groups. The Greek immigrants were not welcomed in Greece. Greek speaking ones became second, Turkish speaking Karamans third class. Karaman Turks established their churches in Greece continued worshipping in Turkish. They did not integrated with Greeks and made in community marriages. They were so harassed that they migrated to other countries like USA, Canada and Australia.
On the Turkish side, the Turks sent by Greece were not all Turks. At least half of them were Muslim Greeks, Bulgarians, Macadonians, Bosnians and Albanians living in Greece. Turkey were more organized than Greece. Immigrants were welcomed by locals. In one generation they were integrated to the Turkish population. In fact this was an exchange of Christians and Muslim populations.
This exchange was a sad and pathetic event for both sides.
Thanks for the comment. When it comes to the origin of the Karamanlides, my research showed me that is it not %100 percent known whether they are Turkish or Greek. If you know any sources, I would appreciate it a lot if you could share.
When it comes to the population exchange, yes it was very painful for people from both sides.
I wish you didn’t dislike the video but thanks for watching anyways 😅🙏🏻
A very interesting video. Just like Pakistan and India, populations were transferred and the tragedy followed during the trasfers. A truly gruesome part of Indian history
Autochthonous cultures were decimated by the population exchange after World War I. Asking whether one’s ancestors were Greek or Turkish sounds very much like two thousand years ago someone asking whether someone is Helen or Barbaroi. We are talking about ordinary folk, not some Senators in the Athenian Senate or some princes in the Persian palace or some bishops in Vatican. Ordinary folk syncretize, synthesize, assimilate existing cultures and create their own culture. Pigeonholing people by some measures that are imposed by external authorities is likely to end up with tragic consequences as history is abound with many examples. I am not saying historical linguistics or preserving endangered languages is not a worthy effort. What I am saying is that nobody entitled to teach people what their ‘correct’ ethnic/religious etc identity should be.
@@turkchapthey have free choise for believe in Ottoman empire butt speak Turkish. Free language why not speak hellenic language?
@@turkchapnow it is much easier to find out who is who DNA can confirm that so find an Karamanli Descendant and order their ancestry DNA and within 10 days you'll get your answer 😊
Fantastic video. Thank you keep up the good work. One detail: it is not "Hagia Sofia" but Ayia Sofia in Greek. That aspirated 'h' is due to the 16th century theologian's (Erasmus) theory of ancient and classical Greek.
👍👍👍🧿
Slavic written with Greek letters is fascinating!
Make a video about the cretan turks
As a karamanlis who did a DNA let me assure you we are pretty greek ,0% central asian dna in my test
maybe maybe not.
@TUNC66 DNA wise we are not turks , turkic to be specific I don't know how today turks define turkishness ,if by turk u mean native Anatolian(which turks originally weren't) then yes but native Anatolians were cousins of Greeks Armenians Georgians anyway .neither me of my family had central Asian DNA for people who want to know why we started speaking turkish language should read 1277 Mehmet bey's firman, Mehmet I of karaman ,which changed the official language from Persian to turkish for the seljuks and forbid the use of any language other that turkish even for the dervish lodge
@@manolisbach2380
Madam, these issues are very deep and should really be left to historians.I'm not implying you are all history professors here, but these issues are seriously the subject of historians.
@TUNC66 true I don't know I am not an expert on the subject I just did a DNA test xD but I don't have turkic DNA I don't look Asian anyway I shouldn't be surprised xD
@@manolisbach2380 Believe me, lady, I'm not in any effort to make you a Turk, it just makes me uncomfortable that everyone here is a history professor, best regards.
2) Bu düşünce akımı Francesco Sansovino ile doruğuna ulaşacaktır. Babası ünlü mimar Jacopo Sansovino, Venedik’e San Marco kütüphanesini yapmak için gelmiş ve oğlu bu kente yerleşmiştir. Francesco yazarlık ve editörlük yaparak hayatını kazanmış, yüzlerce cilt kitabı derlemiş ve yayımlamıştır. Bunların arasında Türklerle ilgili yedi tane kitabı vardır ve en önemlisi olan birincisi 1560’ta yayımlanmıştır.
1560 yılı Türklerin Akdeniz’deki ilerlemeleri bakımından bir dönüm noktasıdır: O yıl Cerbe deniz savaşında İspanyol donanması yenilmiş ve Türklere Batı Akdeniz yolu açılmıştır. Sansovino Türkler konusunda yazılanları derleyip yayımlamayı düşünür; çünkü o tarihe kadar en azından İtalya’da böyle bir külliyat meydana getirilmemiştir.
1550’li yıllarda Venedikli Giovanni Ramusio’nun üç büyük cilt halinde yayımlamış olduğu seyahatler küllliyatında doğrudan Türklere ait bir şey yoktur. Yakın komşu konumunda olan Türkler yeni keşfedilen ülkeleri tanıtmaya yönelik seyahat edebiyatının bir parçası sayılmadıklarından, yayın alanındaki bu boşluğu doldurmak Sansovino’ya düşer.
Yazar-yayıncının amacı o andaki okuyucularının beklentilerini yanıtlamak, Türkler konusunda bilenenlerin ve düşünülenlerin bir sentezini yapmaktır. Ondan önce uzak ülkeler için Ramusio’nun yapmış olduğu sentez, seyahat edebiyatının bir bölümünü oluşturduğu coğrafya türüne girer. Burada gidilecek, görülecek, alınacak yerler söz konusudur.
Türklerin elindeki ülkeler ise ortak bir geçmişin parçasıdır ve Türkler konusundaki bilgiler ortak bir geleceğin kaygısını taşımaktadır. Bundan dolayı “Türk bilgisi” coğrafyaya değil tarihe girer ve Sansovino bir tarih kitabı derleyecektir.
Kitabın başlığı, “Türklerin Kökeninin ve İmparatorluğunun Evrensel Tarihi Konusunda”dır (Dell’Historia Universale dell’Origine et Imperio de’ Turchi).
Bu isim üzerine durmak gerekir. Yukarıda belirttiğimiz gibi, Sansovino bir tarih kitabı sunmaktadır; ancak bu bir “evrensel tarih”tir ve böyle olmakla birlikte genel bir evrensel tarih değil, Türklerin evrensel tarihidir.
Daha doğrusu evrensel tarihin Türklere ait olduğu ilan edilmektedir. Zaten imperio sözcüğü de buna gönderme yapmaktadır; çünkü “imparatorluk” olarak çevirdiğimiz sözcük, aslında “mutlak iktidar” anlamındadır ve bundan dolayı imperium tek ve paylaşılmazdır.
Doğu Roma, yani Bizans imparatorları, Charlemagne ve ondan sonra gelen Kutsal Roma-Cermen hükümdarlarının imparatorluk vasıflarını tanımak istemedikleri gibi, Osmanlı padişahları da bu geleneği sürdürmüşler ve özellikle Historia Universale’nin yazıldığı yıllarda, Kanuni Süleyman, Charles Quint’i Alman imparatoru olarak değil, yalnızca İspanya kralı olarak tanımakta ısrar etmiştir.
Yapıtın üçüncü baskısından başlayarak ifadeyi göreceli kılan, “konusunda” olarak çevirdiğimiz, “della” sözcüğü başlıktan çıkarılacak ve konu bundan böyle kuşku kaldırmayacak bir biçimde “Türklerin evrensel tarihi” olarak belirlenecektir.
Üç fasikül halinde 1560-1561 yıllarında yayımlanan Historia Universale’nin birinci baskısının girişinde, Sansovino, kitabın amacını şöyle anlatmaktadır:
'Yeterli bilgilere sahip olduğumuz dünya devletleri arasında, Türk hükümdarının devletini her zaman en fazla saygınlığa layık olduğunu düşündüm, halkının büyük itaatinden ve tüm Türk milletinin mutlu talihinden dolayı. O denli kısa bir dönemde ne biçimde ve nasıl bir kolaylıkla büyüyüp o denli bir ün ve şöhrete vardığını görmek hayret edilecek bir durumdur. Eğer kökenlerini araştırırsak ve dikkatli bir biçimde iç ve dış işlerini gözden geçirirsek, gerçekten Romalıların ordu disiplininin, itaatinin ve talihinin, bu devletin yıkılışından sonra, bu ırka geçmiş olduğunu söyleyebiliriz.'
Burada “talih” olarak çevirdiğimiz ve iki defa geçen fortuna sözcüğü, aslında bugün Türkçede ancak “devlet kuşu” gibi tabirlerde kullanılan “devlet” sözcüğünün eski ve asil anlamını karşılamakta, “refah”, “saadet” ve “nimet” kavramlarıyla eşdeğer olmaktadır. Fortuna ile birlikte iki defa kullanılan obbedienza, yani itaat, Türklerin başarısının iki anahtarını ve aynı zamanda Roma ile Türk imparatorlukları arasındaki benzerliğin ve devamlılığın eksenini vermektedir. Ancak bir ilahi lütuf olan “devlet”, Türklerin şeflerine olan itaati ve buna eşdeğer olarak kullanılan askeri disiplinleri sayesinde elde edilmiştir.
İlk baskısı 1571’de yapılan ve Historia Universale’nin bir eki olarak Türk tarihinin kronolojik dökümünü içeren Annali Turcheschi’ye yazmış olduğu girişte, Sansovino, bu konuya biraz daha açıklık getirir:
'Türk milletinin büyuklüğünün ve gücünün büyük bir saygıya layık olduğunu her zaman savundum, çünkü çok eskiden beri var olan ordu kurumlarına ve sivil düzenlerine bakıldığında, durumlarından kaba saba birileri olmadıkları, aksine değerli kişiler oldukları görülüyor. Ordu konusunda, bizimkilerden kimlerin Türklerden daha disiplinli ve Roma düzenine daha yakın olabileceklerini göremiyorum. Bunlar adı geçen Romalıların mirasçısı olarak sefer sırasında çok az şeyle yetinirler, zor işlerde çok sabırlıdırlar, şeflerine itaat ederler, fetih amaçlarını inatla izlerler, savaş hilelerinde ustadırlar ve sonuçta askeri işleri o denli sebatla yürütürler ki kazanmak ve hükmetmek için hiçbir zorluk karşısında yılmazlar. Barış düzenine ait şeylere gelince, kavgacı insanların karışık zihinlerinden doğan tüm dava hilelerini bozarak ve başkalarının anlaşmazlıklarını çabucak kendi çıkarlarına uygun bir biçimde çözerek, bu mutlak adalet biçimi ile halklarını hoşnut ederler. Bundan dolayı, birkaç yıl önce, yapmış oldukları şeyleri Türklerin Kökeninin ve İmparatorluğunun Evrensel Tarihi adlı epeyce doğru bir kitapta topladım. Amacım, dünyanın bunları görerek ve okuyarak bu adamların güçlerinin temelini öğrenmesi ve dolayısıyla, bir bozkır yangını gibi ilerleyen ve bundan böyle başımıza felaketler getirip Hıristiyanlığın son kalıntılarını yakacak olan, dizginsiz kargaşalarına bir çare bulabilmesidir.'
Aynı zamanda İnebahtı savaşının yılı olan yeni bir Osmanlı-Venedik savaşının üçüncü yılında yayımlanan bu metinde Sansovino’nun bir “Türk dostu” olması beklenemezdi; ayrıca 16. yüzyıl Venedik’inde “Türk dostluğu”nun ne anlamı olabilirdi?
Sansovino, yalnızca hasmının iyi ve doğru tanınmasının gerekliliğine inanan bir Rönesans aydınıdır, ancak bu tanıma gayreti hayranlık mertebesine eriştiğinde, Dalmaçya kıyılarından Kıbrıs’a kadar uzanan bir cephede karada ve denizde iki milletin kıran kırana savaştığı günlerde bile bu hayranlığın açıkça dile getirilmesine Venedik’teki ortam engel değildir.
Aynı biçimde, İstanbul’da elçilik yaptığı sürenin en büyük bölümü ev hapsinde geçecek olan, Venedik balyozu Marcantonio Barbaro, Kıbrıs’ı ve Dalmaçya kıyılarının önemli bir bölümünü Türklere bırakan 1573 Osmanlı-Venedik barışından ve dolayısıyla İnebahtı’dan- sonra, memleketine döndüğünde, senatoya okuduğu raporda şu sonuca varmaktadır:
'Ulu prens ve eşsiz senyörler, madem ki Tanrı’nın izniyle, Osmanlı imparatoru, sürekli zaferler sayesinde bunca eyaleti ele geçirmiş, bunca krallığı kendisine bağlamış ve dolayısıyla kendisine tüm dünyada dehşetli bir ün kazandırmıştır, sonunda evrensel krallığa ulaşmasının olasılığını göz önünde bulundurmamız akılsız bir davranış olmayacaktır.'
Historia Universale’nin ikinci baskısı 1564, üçüncü baskısı 1568’de yayımlanır. Artık Türkler konusunda bir klasik olmuştur ve etkileri görülmeye başlar.
1566’da Tarihin Yöntemi adlı yapıtını yayımlayan Fransız düşünür Jean Bodin aynı temayı işler:
'Almanya hükümdarı Türklerin padişahıyla nasıl boy ölçüşmeye kalkışabilir ve kim bu sonuncudan daha fazla mutlak kraliyet unvanına hak iddia edebilir?… Gerçekten de, eğer bir yerlerde imparatorluk ya da gerçek bir mutlak kralllık adını taşıyabilecek bir güç varsa, bu güç padişahın elindedir… En doğrusu Roma İmparatorluğu’nun mirasçısı olarak Türklerin padişahını düşünmektir; çünkü imparatorluğun başkenti olan Bizans’ı Hıristiyanların elinden aldıktan sonra, İranlılardan Babil yöresini fethetmiş ve Roma’nın eski eyaletlerine Tuna ötesi ve Dinyester nehrine kadar olan memleketleri eklemiş ve tüm bu yöreler bugün elindeki toprakların en büyük bölümünü oluşturmaktadır.'
Memleketi Türk tehlikesinden uzak ve asıl düşmanı Alman imparatoru olan Fransız yazarının amacı daha politiktir.
My surname, is Karamanli! Does this mean iam actually greek?
If your ancestors where Christians yes , if not you propably have some turkic admixture.
Caraman ali, Turkish or Arabic?🤷
It has nothing to do with Arabs.
It obvious that they’re of Greek origin because they spoke the same Turkish as the ottomans just with lots of Greek words.
Nowdays it's easier to find who were who with the DNA of Descendants of the Ancient people. Centuries ago the history was writen by the one who knew to write and twist the story the way they like and now the Descendants are at each others throats because of the Mythology of the writers. DNA is a good thing because it puts everyones history in the right direction and no misunderstandings and disputes. Love the people around you and stop the hate before it becomes too late to save the humanity or we'll go distinct 😢
DNA is just a bilogical history. Many Turks today has only 5% Central Asian genes ( all Turks, 20 % on average). This does not indicate they are not Turks. This indicate interbreeding and intermixing diluted their genes. They maintained their language and culture but intermarrying with local people, they lost their genes. If you take DNA as basis, you can come to conclusio that there are no Turks in Anatolia, which is not true. Identities are not formed by DNA but cultural heritage. If you put DNA forward and ignore cultural facts, you would have no difference from skull measurers of the past century.
Şu Ermeni harfleriyle yazılan Türkçe eserler hakkında da video gelse iyi olur😅
Bunu da video fikirlerine ekliyorum reis 👍🏻 Sağolasın
Karamanlides were definitely Greek. Armenians and Jews in this region also only spoke turkish using there onw alphabetic script, were they also descendants of turkic soldiers? I highly doubt that.
In the end I don’t really care if they are Turkish or Greek. What matters the most is that they were one of the important and unique cultures of Anatolia.
The only true differrence is muslim or christian.
Ottomans often gave the choice of religion or language to the Greek populations, they ,being christian, always chose religion
Misinformation. In Ottoman era, language has never been an issue. Language was out of question. Language has never been a part of equation. The matter was religion, converting to Islam brought Turkish as a bonus if you live in proximity to main Turkish settlements, if not, you were only Islamicized just like Bosnians, Albanians, Pomaks, Torbeshes and Cretans.
Turks lived in different geographies, with various nations, and still live. They have been in various religions. Currently, there are Christians and Buddhists as well as Turks.Turks have some features that everyone appreciates. They do not interfere with anyone's language and religion.When a military conquers a city, he never touches children and old people. His women are not changed from men to other men. The soldier takes the woman and girl he likes as his wife.If Seljuks and Ottomans had intervened in religion and language, there would be no Serbian, Greek etc. today. The islands in the Aegean Sea remained with the Italians in 1913 and 1947. They taught Italian to everyone. Italian education was given in schools. The Turks stayed in Tunisia, Algeria for 400 years. No one speaks Turkish there. .But French is now known by everyone. In Algeria alone, France killed 1.5 million people.Avar, Pecheneg, Bulgarian, Cuman-Kipchak and Uz Turks came to Anatolia through the Balkans, Central Europe and the Caucasus from the 500s. The Avars besieged Istanbul in 618 and 626. At that time, all Anatolia was occupied by the Persians. A prayer was made. They called this prayer BELLIUM AVARICUM.If you pay attention to this prayer, Italian.Greek began to be spoken in Istanbul and Anatolia after the 8th century. It was the result of the fight with the Vatican. Anatolia, Syria vs Rome and later the Eastern Roman Empire.The historical artifacts here do not have the letter KSI of the Greek alphabet.The BELLIUM AVARICUM prayer is read as the 6th hymn every Easter. It was also read in churches all over Greece on the day Hagia Sophia was opened for worship.The Βulgars were the first Muslims to become Turks. But over time they became Slavs. After 1910, they persecuted the Muslim Turks a lot. For this reason, the Bulgar Mountain in Anatolia was named BOLKAR... For example, there was a Khazar Empire in history. No more today. However, these Khazar Turks belonged to the Jewish religion.Although they are very few, there are also KARAIM JEWISH TURKS in Istanbul, Latvia, Finland, etc.In the Ottoman lands, and therefore in Anatolia, there were Orthodox people who spoke Turkish - did not know Elenika and knew Greek - did not speak Turkish.An example of Izmir folk song for those who don't know Turkish but only Elenika.ruclips.net/video/PavzSnR5pVA/видео.html
Karatasi_Karataş is the place where Onassis was born in 1900. If you want, I can write to you about his sister Maria/Makbule.
On January 30, 1923 in Lausanne, Lloyd George, Lord Curzon insisted on the Venizalos project. Turkey reluctantly signed. The organization was made by Norwegian Nansen. Commissions were established. It was based on religion. They took the Orthodox from all of Turkey (except Istanbul).300,000 of the 1,500,000 people taken from Turkey were Orthodox Turks. They held rallies saying we are Christians, but we are Turks. They begged.They had fought with Byzantium together with the Muslim Oghuz Turks in 1071 and 1176. The emperor's daughter Anna Comnena said in her diary that "Christian Turks left the army and went over to the side of the Seljuks. We were defeated for her."There were Albanians, Macedonians, etc. among the 1,500,000 people.Greece persecuted these Orthodox Turks a lot. They are now assimilated. Among the 300,000 Orthodox Turks, there were also Gagauz and Çıtak Turks. They were also taken from Thrace
ruclips.net/video/DCM58R41wXY/видео.html Manolis' parents were from Çıtak Turks who went from Çİftllikköy.Except for the Muslims in the East of the 1913 Bucharest Treaty, other Muslims were sent to Turkey.These were 479.000 people. Among them were Turkish Muslims and Sabbataists (they live in Thessaloniki, although they were Jewish, they were perceived as Turkish. The Greeks called them SAZANIKOS). There were Albanian, Macedonian, Gypsy, Vlach and 50,000 were of Hellenic origin.These Hellenic Muslims were settled by the sea in total in certain regions. Let me give an example, Celaliye.The word Cappadocia is Persian. Greece says Karamanli -Cappadocia, but these Orthodox Turks were everywhere.