Masking and Adult ADHD
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- In this short video I discuss the popular concept of masking, claims that adults with ADHD do this more than to others (neurotypical people), and that it is harmful to those doing so. Such claims are made at numerous websites. Here I challenge these ideas arguing that masking is common in typical people, that is socially appropriate to do so, that there is no evidence it occurs more in adults with ADHD, and that there is no evidence to masking is harmful to those who engage in it. BUT please also watch this subsequent short video for clarifications: • Masking and Adult ADHD...
The example websites I showed in the video are:
I am Busy Being Awesome: imbusybeingawe...
Very Well Mind: www.verywellmi...
Additude: www.additudema...
The two quasi-research papers I found in journals on masking and ADHD are here:
M. G. Harris et al. (2023). The experiences of medical students with ADHD: A phenomenological study. PLoS One. journals.plos....
W. J. van der Putten et al. (2024). Is camouflaging unique to autism: A comparison of camouflaging between adults with autism and ADHD. Autism Research.
doi.org/10.100...
My understanding is ‘adhd masking’ essentially means people trying their best not to let their executive impairments affect them in public without asking for adjustments or taking steps to reduce their symptomology (medication etc).
I think this much more aligns with autism as this literature suggests. I think that ‘masking’ is basically internalisation, which is as the literature suggests linked to all sorts of psychopathology
Exactly so. When I think of masking behaviour in myself, I don´t think about letting go of any self discipline. I think of things like never asking for help or never showing how much other persons´ behaviour may hurt me. Because I learned early in my life that openness will inevitably get punished, so I start to live behind a functional facade. It´s not about all or nothing, it´s about the limit, when adaption to social life becomes more than mere compensation, when it starts to affect one´s self esteem.
If doctor Barkley might look for a good cohort to talk about masking, I recommend women with late diagnosis. They have plenty of experience with hiding behind a facade in a self harming way.
THIS.
Diagnosed at 45 yrs.
No, Autism symptoms are devoid of social understanding and committing foe paws [sic]. This leads to distress on both ends of the social encounter. ADHD masking is just literally trying to not be an asshole in public. Autistic masking is a genuine attempt to "fill the void" of something they innately cannot understand
@@CarolaSiegel yes this !
My own study of psychology suggests that the persona (the social mask) and neurodivergent masking are different.
The persona is mostly about hiding psychological traits, opinions, and behaviors, that are considered socially unacceptable, and thus it is tied to the concept of the Jungian shadow.
Masking is about pretending that you do not have the limitations that you actually do. In the context of ADHD, it's pretending to not have executive dysfunction and emotional regulation problems.
In my experience, neurotypical people who hadn't been educated about ADHD can't readily wrap their heads around the concept of me really wanting to do something and understanding well the positive and negative consequences to myself and other people of both action and inaction, but still being unable to do that thing.
Finding out about ADHD, and then getting an official diagnosis, really helped me to unmask and stop pretending like my pattern of productivity must be the same as a neurotypical person's. It substantiates my struggles both with low motivation and hyperfocus. And now I can explain these things in simple terms, reinforcing the fact that it's my diagnosed psychiatric neurodevelopmental disorder, and not simply stupidity, laziness, or lack of caring. This made my life significantly easier even in cases when I don't get any special accommodations because of it. The ability to manage the social expectations of other people that are being placed on me, instead of just trying to conform to them, is a relief.
I, of course, still make a daily effort to overcome and manage my symptoms even though they are known to people around me. But this is not the same as pretending to not have them.
A real-world example is that at my current job, I often do my work in intense batches and allow myself long periods of rest between them, which for me is the authentic way to work. In the end, I complete the same overall amount of _weekly_ work as everyone else, even if my daily output fluctuates. If I don't have to also pretend like I'm constantly busy with something, which is expected of neurotypical employees who don't usually work as intensely, I can get more work done instead. And I don't get the anxiety associated with the possibility of being seen as a slacker despite my ability to get stuff done, or the depression that's associated with me being unaware of my authentic productivity pattern and thinking that there's something wrong with me if I need long periods of rest when I can't force myself to do anything productive. This is the main difference between masking and symptom management.
Masking that's related to emotional regulation is a different topic though. Yes, it's good for me when I behave and manage my emotions appropriately in public. But I can't do that all the time. This amount of conscious effort burns me out and leads me to avoid social situations. So my family, friends, and partner need to be informed about my ADHD and its consequences, and they have to learn to be a bit more tolerant of my outbursts of enthusiasm if spending more time around me is more important to them than not being irritated when I occasionally interrupt them, gesticulate, or fidget. They can either get more of my authentic unmasked self or less of my restrained self, and there's nothing more that I can do about this.
Similarly, at my current job, my managers are tolerant of me being occasionally overly enthusiastic about some of my tasks and see it as a good thing, even if it sometimes requires them to calm me down a bit and explain some caveats in more detail. Or of me being very sluggish at very "boring" and manual tasks. That's still better than someone who is completely passive about their job. For them the trade-off is worth it, considering that I most often get excited about the most technically difficult parts of the job that other people on my team struggle with and just can't get done as quickly, while they can do "boring" tasks as well as I can when I'm able to in the first place. With the additional synergy of me being far more motivated to automate any manual tasks, which is good for business in the long run. It's a relatively simple matter for my manager to delegate tasks appropriately within the team. Again, this means that I can mask less and achieve more by being authentic. I can cultivate a healthy persona of _the_ employee to go to if something very complicated has to be done under a tight deadline and who can explain things to new people in almost obsessive amounts of detail to ensure their success, instead of a toxic persona of a lazy slacker who nobody knows how he's still employed and who should be able to achieve far more if he could just apply himself.
Hey man, I also have a problem with procrastination and after I got depression during my thesis because of this, I have lost the drive to actually want to perform well during the last few days of a task. All the stress feels too much since then.
Do you have a way of dealing with the stress when you put off a task or how do you actually get something done? How do you get motivated and not burned out?
When I try to tackle a task at a reasonable time, then I get burned out by that task and just can't work for it until the very last second. On the other hand, when I wait, then the anxiety creeps up on me and my stress level rises. When the task is done, I feel like I need 3 whole months of vacation.
@@ChillnLearn-pm4yn Currently the only thing that has really helped has been stimulants. It's a sad reality that without enough dopamine the relevant parts of the brain refuse to work.
Sometimes I can get through the stress by actively thinking about the task at hand and imagining in detail how I should approach it stage by stage while trying to stay calm and self-regulate by keeping in mind that I'm not trying to _force_ myself to do it immediately, because I know I can't (despite the pressure), I'm just thinking about it, maybe writing it down. Occasionally starting a daunting task requires several progressive attempts like this.
Or, I can go do something like play a videogame first, then use the dopamine release to quickly jump to doing something productive, but that only works for short sprints, as soon as something goes wrong and I don't know exactly what to do next, I can't continue.
Taking stimulants, instead, makes me feel positively _compelled_ to go do something, it's weird. However, I still need to know what I'm supposed to be doing to avoid being distracted, stimulants don't replace organizational skills training.
Thank you for taking the time to write this comment, it is really relieving to read about the experience of someone who shares my productivity pattern and manages to overcome or at least deal with the constant anxiety it can induce. It looks like you have come to peace with your productivity patterns and are able to see advantages in your way of work which is something i cannot do yet.
I would love to know how you achieved that, because as you said, you also tried to pretend to emulate a neurotypical person's productivity pattern. I am aware of the issues my way of work causes and i try to achieve the results that i deem possible(which could be aimed too high, another problem by itself i guess) but i cannot get it right which leads to increased anxiety over a long time and ultimately decreased productivity due to the anxiety and lots of avoidance from it.
Is there any kind of strategy that helped you reach this mental state of acceptance for your working patterns so it could actually synergize with your daily ups and downs of executive function capability? Besides medication of course, i am already medicated but it i feel like medication by itself is not enough to overcome bad productivity patterns, to me it just helps "sticking to the work after i started"
It appears that you are pretty good at accepting and "owning your adhd". Which advice would you give to someone else or even yourself at the beginning of this journey to actually progress towards achieving this?
Sorry for rambling a bit, i hope i can get my point across. Hats off to you for being able to learn enough about yourself to develop what looks like a healthy self image and also being able to communicate it :)
Well, I feel very fortunate in that I've been able to treat my ADHD symptoms with medication, therapy, 12 step, largely successfully. I've also spent time learning social skills and cues, and what those mean to the people I am interacting with.
People are conditioned to read nonverbal language, especially, in ways that trigger emotions. I don't think it's reasonable for me to expect that they can just put aside a lifelong set of conditioned responses for me because of my neurology diversity. People I'm close to, I can give them information, especially in times when I'm not able to be "on," but the fact is that everybody has stuff they're dealing with, and everybody has a limited amount of bandwidth for empathy for other people, and a lot of it depends on their own stress level. The rest of the world does not owe us exemption from adhering to normal social behaviors. There may be legal or moral implications involved with inclusion in a workplace, friend group, etc., but I really believe that as people with ADHD we need to develop awareness of our own behavior and also group dynamics.
I remember listening to Sari Solden talk some years ago, and she said ADHD is not the only thing people deal with. And some things are worse than ADHD. Where I have the problem is with folks with ADHD or autism spectrum disorder, seeming to act as if their issues take precedence over other folks need for safe environments, predictable schedules, ability to plan, etc.
For emotional regulation, I have also found medication helpful, and dialectical behavioral therapy has been a wonderful approach, one that doctor Barkley recommends.
Great comment - thanks for sharing your experience!
I’m a psych honours student with a very similar experience to you, but due to an autoimmune condition I can’t take stimulants rip…
I noticed you stated tied to the concept of the jungian shadow. It think that’s cool and it is fitting, this is just one way of looking at it amongst many. Saying it is tied to implied some kind of fundimental relationship, but alas it is merely one perspective if that makes sense (I am being pedantic but hey if I had the thought I would presume many who read this could get the impression) I am assuming you have a special interest in jungian psych and have hyper fixated on it lately which is fun as I did the same thing a few years back, so it’s totally understandable if this is the case but I just wanted to say this as someone who is a few years out from the hyper focus to pick up on this subtle detail that you might not be conscious of.
All the best!
Dr Barkley, as someone who has just been diagnosed with ADHD at 60, masking undiagnosed ADHD fits this description better. My whole life I have been hiding my inadequacies, not just at work, but all day long.
It is exhausting, and shameful, and made me feel like something was wrong AND it was my fault, like everyone else knew some secret that I didn’t. Nothing I tried helped, and having people in my life angry or irritated with me all the time was crushing. Everyone including myself saw these problems as incompetency or laziness. It destroyed my self esteem and I had to hide that as well.
Even emotionally it was a constant struggle. Relationships felt so difficult that I sometimes wanted to stop existing. I felt judged and found to be unworthy or damaged, but with no understanding of exactly how or why. Masking was hiding the shame and pain I carried all the time. There was no time when I could stop and relax and feel okay as my actual self.
I'm in my 30s, and your experience sounds so much like mine. I'm very grateful that you have finally been diagnosed, and hope that you are getting the help and support that you need, and unlearning the false narratives you held about yourself. You're not lazy, inadequate, bad, stupid, you do care, you are good, you are hard working
And not just false narratives that you held about yourself--but that were (and maybe still are) put on you by other people!
@@donnaw4725 Diagnosed at 70, and I feel as though you are speaking for me, too. The only thing I would add is that whenever I make a new acquaintance, I have this nagging worry in the back of my mind: what happens when they find out I’m broken, that I can’t always be relied upon? I have avoided some people because they’re so “together” and being on top of things is so important to them that I feel that I’ll never be able to meet their expectations. Of course, I may be completely misjudging them!
You were crushed by people being irritated with you shitting personality? boohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoo............hoo
❤ I see you x
Hi Dr Barkley,
I appreciate that you're referencing the available research re: masking, but my concern is that there is a focus on how those with ADHD are perceived rather than the effort and energy that go into this practice.
As you say in the video, masking is something all of us do in order to conform to social norms in different settings. By thanking us for suppressing traits associated with ADHD, I would interpret that you are acknowledging that these traits are particularly disruptive to these social norms, indeed leading to alienation and other negative outcomes. Particuarly for those who have not been diagnosed, I believe that feeling that you need to suppress these elements of yourself in the vast majority of social settings can lead to self-loathing, or feelings that there is something wrong with you. And with this effort being put into masking and limited executive function, is it not unreasonable to assume that the longer this persists without understanding, the more difficult this becomes?
I think the issue lies less in questioning whether masking is a good or bad thing for ourselves or the others around us, and moreso how and when it is healthy to allow ourselves to be unabashedly unrestrained, and to utilise opportunities to completely "unmask".
I would be interested to hear whether you believe this is a healthy practice or whether ultimately the goal with ADHD management is to suppress these traits indefinitely? I don't mean to pose this as an infammatory question and I hope it hasn't come across as such, I'm just genuinely intrigued
I couldn’t agree more.
Great question - looking forward to the answer.
YES!!! I am so disappointed in this video. Not because he's saying untrue things, but it feels like another attempt to get everyone "in line" and behaving as the neurotypical world expects or demands. News flash -- the American neurotypical world is in need of healing & growth! So yes, there are times we need to allow people to feel and process their emotions *in the moment* and not shut it down or judge them harshly for the emotional dysregulation. (Another news alert - EVERY human being gets dysregulated & is in need of compassion and coping skills to move through it.)
I highly look forward to hearing an answer on if the ultimate goal is suppression of these traits too. Yes, there may be a time and place for certain conversations, but there is *dangerous* area being tread here if you are ultimately proposing that all neurodivergent people should fall in line and accommodate the capitalist, colonialist, harmful expectations of our modern day world. Suppression of one's struggles (as opposed to support and accommodations) is a straight, quick path to depression, long-term trauma & total non-functioning.
Dr. Barkley, please do better with future communications and videos. Your message of "You are forgetful. Is it so bad to constantly check things??" is harmful & dismisdive of the immense level of time, mental load and strategies some people have to use to just LIVE daily life. ✌️
WOW. I am almost speechless by the ending of this video too...
So simply because the detriments of masking *have not yet been studied* on a large scale, it means they don't exist?? As a researcher, I think you know better than that. 😞 Things aren't even looked at or studied at all until society first becomes aware of it (which I believe is the first step of what's happening now, thankfully). See how thalidomide was first touted as "safe" for pregnancy.
(I moved my original comment because I meant for it to be in an open thread, not in purely to this excellent comment.) I also would like to see the questions raised in your comment addressed, which they currently have not been, as the apology currently stands.
"Just act how you feel" is good advice for maybe 10% of the population.
When you say it’s exhausting on a daily basis, but it’s not a bad thing at all, it’s not true. It’s a necessary thing, it has benefits and places, but there are limits and we need to recover. We need places where we can just act how we feel.
yeah, its an unfortunately typical neurotypical attitude of "Actually I'm the arbiter of whether or not you're fine" which is going to occur in any nt person who becomes interested in nd people no matter how accepting they are (which Russel Barkley is undoubtedly good 99% of the time).
That is not the topic of this video. It’s about the trend in social media and trade media to tell people masking is bad from the beginning and you shouldn’t do it at all.
Masking is nesseri eksaml so that ones children dont get boullied and so on.
@@xdeser2949Dr. Barkley has ADHD.
Island for ADHDs - Here we need no masks
Psychedelics are just an exceptional mental health breakthrough. It's quite fascinating how effective they are against depression and anxiety. Saved my life.
Can you help with the reliable source I would really appreciate it. Many people talk about mushrooms and psychedelics but nobody talks about where to get them. Very hard to get a reliable source here in Australia. Really need!
Yes, dr.sporees I have the same experience with anxiety, depression, PTSD and addiction and Mushrooms definitely made a huge huge difference to why am clean today.
Anxiety happens when you think you have to figure out everything all at once.
Breathe. You're strong. You got this Take it day by
day.
Is he on instagram?
Yes he is. dr.sporees
I was diagnosed with ADHD (primarily inattentive) three years ago, at age 70. I’ve come to realize that masking became so automatic that almost none of my friends over the years have never really known me. I worked with half a dozen different psychotherapists over the years, but none of them saw anything but depression. I think in the earlier years it was because ADHD in adult women wasn’t recognized, but with the most recent practitioners I believe the problem was that I had become so adept at masking my ADHD symptoms that they didn’t see it. The shame and self-loathing built up over 70 years of never meeting expectations, feeling that I was always letting people down, and throttling my behavior so that I could appear normal. I understand that it’s important to learn how to moderate behavior in many situations, but it’s painful to always feel that you have to squash part of yourself because it is so ugly that people will be repelled by it.
Late diagnosed high masking autistic woman here (under evaluation for ADHD). It's automatic for me as well, and I think the scariest thing is that I'm not even sure I know myself. Where does the mask end and the real me begin?
I'm sorry that life felt so painful for you for so long.
Most mental health clinicians, if you consulted them, will identify thoughts like "there is something fundamentally wrong with me/I am broken" as depression-consistent. Even if, say, a person presented for psychotherapy to adjust to the effects of a traumatic brain injury that had affected their personality and organizational abilities, etc., thoughts about being "broken" would tend to be addressed as depression-adjacent because they are about a negative self-concept. It seems like there is a real desire lately for a lot of people to look beyond thoughts like this to see if ADHD and/or Autism have been missed...but what happens if these thoughts are related to other life experiences? Why is there a need for people to seek out ADHD as the "answer" for why they feel this way?
@@kathrynturnbull990 I'm probably misunderstanding you but I think you have this all backwards. I severely doubt that people are "seeking out ADHD as the answer for why they feel this way" and honestly it's really rude to ask it the way you're asking it (again I'm sure it's not your intention but this is my honest take on it as someone with ADHD).
I've lived nearly all my life dealing with anxiety and depression, feeling "broken" and wondering what's wrong with me all while hitting wall after wall in therapy for years. For me, I wasn't trying to look beyond these thoughts and feelings for ADHD, I happened across discussions on what ADHD is like from people in the community and found incredible familiarity with people's experiences and the severity of those experiences. It was months more of self reflection and evaluation and work with my therapist and also a formal diagnosis (which is a long, thorough, and exhausting process) which also helped identify if other conditions might better explain my experiences. All along the way, I wondered and agonized over "Do I have ADHD? What if it's something else, what could explain my life long struggles?" Again, the diagnostic process I went through was easily over 1000 questions and included a battery of other tests to see what all could account for the answer to "what's wrong with me?".
So there wasn't some "desire... to look beyond thoughts like this to see if ADHD and/or Autism have been missed", it was a life of pain and struggle and doubt and thorough examination that led to an ADHD diagnosis in my case. Your question and the context you put around it comes across to me as if you consider it to be all just nonsense and as if an ADHD diagnosis is just handed out for no good reason.
A non-offensive way to ask what you're maybe asking might look like,
"I don't understand how an ADHD diagnosis could be missed for so long. I see a lot of similarities between depression & anxiety and ADHD as well as with a lot of other life experiences, but I'm not sure how they all might connect. If you're okay with sharing, what did the diagnostic process look for you? What made you decide to seek a diagnosis?"
@@baka_baca My apologies. You are right. I do have a tendency to ask questions in a way that others perceive as rude.
Thanks for pointing this out! I do consistently work on trying to phrase things in a way that is less rude! Life is short: I want people to feel good about their interactions with me, not crappy. I have learned through backdoor grapevines that a lot of people experience me as a rude and arrogant person: I don't want this to be the case so feedback is valueable.
Is not tapping my foot a "coping strategy"? Well, stimming already is a coping strategy to deal with overload or overwhelm in certain situations. Is it beneficial not to do it, because someone might be annoyed by it?
I can still remember the poison and belittling I went through as a kid when I tapped my feet. It led me to internalise that stimming is BAD because it annoys others.
How about me feeling bad about not being able to do it? Nah, that was not an issue. I would prefer it if people didn't turn on all the bright lights during the day or sneeze into others' faces. But nobody thinks of accommodating me that way, to make me feel less annoyed.
The problem is that telling people with ASD and ADHD to keep masking *because that's just proper behaviour* makes the *a priori* assumption that everyone else's preferences count much more than our nervous system's need to adjust. It perpetuates the ideas that many of us have built up over the course of our lives - that we are bad, wrong, annoying, or whatever. "I can't even keep my feet from tapping! I am a failure!"
I know. ADHD is a disorder. But like with autism, some of the seemingly problematic behaviour is because society decided that it is problematic. Is it inherently problematic in itself that I have a need to stim? Nope. It is made problematic by a society who has decided that everyone needs to act a certain way, and everyone who acts differently is misbehaving or ill.
I know that cultural history and semiotics aren't typically things that are part of the discourse on ADHD, but it might be worthwhile to differentiate between "being polite according to the current society's rules" and "desperately pretending to be normal to not suffer from being perceived as bad/wrong/etc due to one's neurodevelopmental differences". Someone neurotypical who is putting on their work persona is not camouflaging/masking. The extralinguistic referents of these lexical items are different.
We already go through a lot of stress to just exist. A sociocultural approach would recognise that it is *exhausting* to mask all the time for the benefit of others and to one's own detriment. We have no problem with ramps for handicapped people - we accommodate their disability. Why is the idea of not forcing us to mask different?
Society has made rules to reward certain behaviours and punish others. These are very recent inventions if we look at humanity on a timescale from, say, 30,000 BCE to now. We could just change the rules. Which can make the entire "neurodivergent people should mask, it's just the polite thing to do" stance look a bit farcical.
Hypothetical situation of the day:
What if you found yourself in a society that rewards hyperactivity and frowns upon people sitting around in silence, without moving? A society that rewards ADHD behaviour and frowns on neurotypical behaviour?
Edit: I am autistic and have ADHD. It's often difficult for me to tell what is supposed to be autistic masking and ADHD masking.
I learned that tapping my foot is fine socially (I might have been told "you look anxious" once) as long as I don't have my foot on the back of someone else's chair. Was very hard for me to notice which I was doing though. And the weight of my leg was never enough to really feel better.
I have RSL and Anxiety. Not sure about ADHD, and no therapist has suggested ASD.
I'm surprised about your view on this, yes I agree that masking in itself is not really something bad in general, it serves a purpose, it helps to keeps us safe (and others) and it's something everyone does to some degree.
What is talked about in both autistic and adult adhd communities though, is that the masking needed to perform and be acceptable for others who aren't autistic/adhd is excessive, to the point that it's incredibly difficult and taxing on us, which leads to burnout and withdrawing from social situations, low self esteem, having difficulties making friends and real connections, because you kinda have to be yourself to make genuine friends/relationships.
You mentioned examples of situations where it's preferable that people mask, things like following impulses, aka socially inappropriate behaviour, following unsafe impulses or disrupting behaviour etc. but you didn't bring up "unrealistic expectations" vague social norms, that rely on an intuitive understanding of social rules and being able to understand and notice social cues.
How for things that aren't unsafe for others or oneself, we still have to hide them, because others might find them disruptive/are disturbed by them, without being given an alternative, like as example stimming, which is something that helps emotionally regulate both adhd and autistics (and even helps focusing for some with adhd).
If we are considered developmentally disabled, we should be allowed to take more space, be allowed to do things that aren't 100% aligning with what would be expected from someone neurotypical.
And last point to make: if there is a lack of research of it, neither proving nor disproving the statements of adult people with adhd/autism, isn't that a sign that we NEED research on it? rather than making assumptions of how harmful it is or isn't?
I feel like ambiguous terminology leads to some conflation of experiences when talking about masking. While I agree that everyone masks to some degree to fulfill different social roles, this also feels somewhat like the "everyone is a little ADHD" argument. This may simply be a misunderstanding on my part of the typical masking experience. Do most people mask in order to perform particular social roles or do they also mask to hide who they are regardless of the role they're in because they've learned that something about who they are is fundamentally "wrong"?
Can I help you with anything? I don't want to but I am just being polite
The later. It also happens in clinicians' offices and, no, they will not pick it up if you play to their expectations.
@@BrothireStrangLuve I'll pick one for you: troll.
@@rebecca_stone You say troll like it's a dirty word. Do you like to talk dirty?
@@takiyaazrin7562 me too
I love how you're here to call people on their BS re ADHD. There's so many grifters right now trying to make money off of us with tools that don't work, books with claims that somehow our ADHD is entirely the result of trauma, etc
How exactly is completely invalidating masking, and how detrimental it can be to us "calling people on their BS" ?? He literally has no grasp of what masking actually is.
I felt that this video lacked necessary context. 1) If masking for an adult with ADHD is in lieu of necessary accommodation I would not be surprised if this would increase the chances of negative outcomes for that person
2) Given that there is a not insignificant significant number of people that has both ADHD and Autism and that there was a time when you couldn’t be diagnosed with both ADHD and Autism (in earlier editions of DSM), I feel that Dr Barkley worded his conclusions less than optimal.
Since Dr Barkley is such an authority on ADHD this video might be the first ones people see while researching and since he mentioned Autism and neurotypical people I feel he opened a door that he was a bit careless with.
For Autistics I feel that it has been quite well established that masking can have a quite detrimental effect, especially in groups who has typically been underdiagnosed (such as girls, non-binary persons). Masking among those groups can delay diagnosis or prevent it which can result in poorer outcomes with less or no needed support.
3) Lastly, I have no scientific foundation for this (I am not a scientist), but I wouldn’t be surprised if excessive masking/camouflaging in some persons with ADHD could possibly delay or prevent early detection and diagnosis with the same increased risk for poorer outcomes for those persons.
1) another pseudo-academic phony 2) larping as an 3) important know it all in the comments.
I think there's waaaaay more nuance to the concept of masking (both autism and ADHD flavors) than our current language can accurately express. In this instance, I think that those advocating for unmasking are talking about a much higher (read: strenuous, restrictive, enforced punitively) degree of masking than the masking/coping mechanisms that you refer to in this video. From my perspective, finding the line between necessary masking that is productive, and excessive masking that is unproductive is something that I constantly reevaluate, and is heavily context dependent.
As a reductive illustration, questions like these help me figure that out: "Am I masking for the purpose of successfully operating the machinery of society (useful, positive, keeps me and those around me safe and sane), or am I masking in an attempt to achieve an ideal that is defined and evaluated by those who do not (or refuse to) have any understanding of the difficulties caused by my disability, thus rendering that ideal unobtainable from the start (futile, oppressive, destructive)?" "Am I being *asked* to do things that *are within my reach* if I put extra effort into it, or am I being *told* that *the way I am* is unacceptable as a whole and should be covered up for their comfort?"
The former case is for things like driving only while medicated, developing systems for keeping track of critical possessions, and increasing awareness of how my behavior negatively affects my loved ones. These things are necessary to keep driving, housed, and attached, respectively.
The latter case is for contorting myself into an "acceptable" shape, defined by a world that does not, and *refuses* to make even the smallest accommodations for its disabled population.
It's the latter case that unmasking advocates are focused on deconstructing with this discourse.
This type of masking, if left to fester without inspection, develops into maladaptive coping skills. We learn how to cover up so well that we *can't* take the mask off, which leads us to an impossible situation where fitting in will eventually fail catastrophically, leaving us at a social-skill deficit compared to our peers that is much greater than it would have been if we had instead directed that effort towards gaining a deeper understanding of how to operate the mask to our benefit.
I like the contrast you make between necessary/productive masking and excessive/unproductive masking. My guess is that those with ADHD who have internalized a much more negative self-concept tend towards unproductive masking and exhaustion more because they keep trying to use unproductive masking to deal with poor self-concept which is ultimately self-defeating.
@@thurstylark827 You hit the nail on the head.
what is with you people and your AI assisted mega-comments. Are you all cerebral scientists now? Also, I love your use of the word "fester". Good job
I can relate to your irritation to a certain degree but I´m afraid that in this case you jumped to the other extreme. There ist a healthy amount of compensation, but there also is a point when it becomes too much and turns into an attitude of seing oneself as a misfit and inferiour in a way that is bad for your mental health. Issues with self esteem are not a separate symptom but the logical consequence of surroundings that force you to pemanently hide your struggle from others and live behind a functional facade.
I do agree with you. Masking is an interesting topic and I think it was oversimplified in the video. Masking is not just trying to fit into the society, and as an example, not interrupting when another person talks. I have ADHD and I genuinely do not understand why some TikTok ADHD stars think that interrupting others is just being authentic. It’s not, it’s rude. And I completely understand it might sometimes be hard not to interrupt, too. 😅
But masking is something much deeper than just trying to fit into society by following the social norms. It comes from deeply internalised shame and despair of not being able to keep your life together. And it leads to burnouts, depression and anxiety. Masking is not about behaving close to socially acceptable norms. Masking is denying yourself any slack in performance because you must meet all the standards, and if not you have failed. It’s like going to a car race with a rusty bicycle and on the way discovering that the race starts 2 hours earlier that you thought and you forgot your lunch home, but you must hide it all, otherwise you’ll be laughed at. This is what masking is.
@@Trammiliin_nr2 you nailed it. Makes me feel a bit weepy. 🫤
Island for ADHDs - Here we need no masks
He "jumped to the other extreme"? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black
Masking is not asking for help when needed because others seem to manage just fine. Its not having people vist your home because you just can't seem to get on top of your cleaning (isolating). It's pretending to understand something that you've missed in conversation because you got distracted again (and getting in trouble for it later. It's not sharing your extreme trouble getting started and not finishing in fear of being called lazy. It's not getting a diagnosis and not getting the help you really need because of shame in sharing just how much difficulties you have doing 'normal' stuff. Masking can be extremely detrimental. Its very disappointing to hear it talked about as just confirming to normal social standards. This commentary absolutely misses the point (as does the article being discussed).
@@miriam4235 1000% agree.
Island for ADHDs - Here we need no masks
Do you pretend that you know about things in a conversation that you really don't know? That is a trait of SPPD? Shitty personality personality disorder. There is no cure for that.
It seems like Dr. Barkley is missing something nuanced about the distinction between trying to improve/manage your symptoms while being open and honest about your struggles, vs. trying to surpress and conceal every internal struggle you experience out of shame and fear of rejection.
Island for ADHDs - Here we need no masks
look! up in the sky! it's Shame McShame and his sidekick Dysphoria Reject
I do love your work Dr Barkley, however, I do disagree with your assessment here. I feel when it is all put into perspective, it is just the nomenclature being used. Whether one chooses to use "masking" or "coping", I feel is irrelevant. The question one should be asking is, why? Why are we doing/acting in that way. Are we managing our symptoms to "cope" or if we are doing it to blend it because we are afraid of being shamed or rejected?
I feel the message you have shared is telling folks with ADHD that it is not ok to be your authentic self. Really? Noone is perfect and there are times when we do make mistakes -- sadly, folks with ADHD experience those moments much more. I was diagnosed as a child and then again at 55 and I know that in my younger years I was a pain in the ass. But I also know that in my 30-50's I carried and still carry a lot of shame for who I am and how I acted/performed/succeed in life. So through those 30-50's I forsure masked who I was, because I was afraid of who I was -- being told that something is wrong with you; that normal people don't behave in that way ... this is not ok.
Should we then tell people who have physical disabilities to not be their authentic selves? I feel there is a big difference in being responsible for your authentic self and just doing whatever you want and then using one's struggles as an excuse.
"Should we then tell people who have physical disabilities to not be their authentic selves?" This does seem like a good analogy. Should someone in a wheelchair spend tons of money on the most realistic robotic legs just so they don't need to take up extra space in the elevator?
@@edwardmitchell6581 Sorry, but I don't follow you?
@redheadedbuddha Ignorance doesn't create an authentic self either. Acceptance does.
@redheadedbuddha There is nothing greater then yourself, just as it is.
I am sorry you feel insulted by accepting your whole self. Accepting things as they are and trying your best to do better two sides of the same coin. We can accept our flaws at the same time we try to find better ways.
Also, no one said that masking was not accepting, actually, I said that masking is accepting of who you are and that one should not be ashamed of it.
@redheadedbuddha One last thing, if you think yourself is sad and limiting, then are you truely accepting yourself? Having this mindset limits you from working towards solutions to those symptoms. I am bald, and have been for half my life -- there is nothing I can do to change that, but acceptance allows me to fill this life. If I didn't accept the fact that I am bald, I then am limiting myself.
I wish there was a study about if masking is actually improves a person's social life and mental health.
I admire your knowledge Dr Barkley but in this topic you seem to lack empathy.
I am diagnosed at 29, and until that point masking was all I do.
And I can certainly say it didn't help even a bit.
I was lonely and miserable despite all that effort.
Because even you work really hard, people sense that you are fake.
Because it is not like a dimmer, it is a switch.
It is not like you try to talk less, it is like you completely shut up and pretend to listen all the time.
And believe me people sense that.
And that is worse than being yourself and stay lonely as a result, because you believe no matter what you do people won't like you.
And even if they like you, it is not satisfying at all because you know it's is not a real connection.
Since my diagnosis I only mask on work related occasions because I don't need my work circle to like me as a friend. I just need to get along so we all can work.
In my personal life I don't mask anymore and I have more friends than ever.
Because now I only attract people like me or people who are very emphatetic towards diffent traits and cultures.
Of course I am only talking about my personal experience and there is nothing scientific about it.
But other than me, I also observe that people with adhd who don't mask, despite that their symptoms are more severe than me, are more popular and have better mental health and confidence.
Because like I said, people feel who is fake and who is genuine.
Of course we should try to fit in.
Of course we should keep it down a little bit.
But a relationship where only 1 side puts all the effort is not a meaningful connection for neither of the parties.
And I can recommend my fellow ADHDers to learn masking, practice and be better at it, so that they can use it as a tool on environments where they need it.
And put it away when you try to build real relationships.
You can be a better version of yourself without pretending to be someone else.
You can learn to manage your emotions without pretending you don't have them.
There are people that will love you as who you are, I can promise that.
"One person's masking is another person's coping strategy" - well said.
I guess it's about balance. There's time and place for authenticity. But when it comes to, say, work and professionalism, it will always involve a certain degree of masking. Probably a lot. But hey, you're getting paid for it.
Thanks Dr Barkley. I have been in a challenging place, recently diagnosed at 30 and feeling short-changed by being unable to unmask as a corporate professional and new father. This has helped me reframe, that I'm simply adapting to my responsibilities and the trust others place in me.
❤ Even autistics recognize the need to mask sometimes. As a full time parent who homeschools, I would suggests working toward a time period weekly or monthly that you can let it all hang out! Does that make sense? I will take a day or a few hours to not do the things that are hardest for me.
Combo 554, you are a corporate professional so consider cocaine. It's very short acting and very addicting.
Coping strategies can be adaptive and maladaptive. If we equate masking with coping, then we still have to consider that there are adaptive and maladaptive forms of masking. Take person A: securely attached, gets support from family for their ADHD, has problems with emotional regulation, learns to suppress rage fits in public (masking), but feels has always the option to talk afterwards with family about what triggered the rage and still does actually address unfairness (which triggered rage) - you can say, healthy coping mechanism. Take person B: insecure attachment, law self esteem due to ADHD making it impossible to meat the parents expectations, gets punished by parents for rage fits in public, learns to suppress rage fits in public (masking), never talks with anyone about what triggered the emotional response, is being afraid to get rage fits and hence frequents less public spaces and never addresses the issues which triggered the rage response (like unfair treatment) - sounds more like a maladaptive coping. Most mechanisms can be adaptive or maladaptive depending on person and environment. Some people should eat less because it would be healthy for them, some people should definitely not eat less because it would be unhealthy for them… so yeah, more nuances
drink your copium
It seems to me that the articles brought up in this video are part of a wider conversation within the adhd and autistic community, which is directed at and by people within those communities, using language that people with those communities understand. I have never seen any part ot instance of this conversation advocate for leaning into our struggles by 'giving into our worst impulses' - no one is suggesting we scream and hit out when we are upset because we have adhd, or refuse to do our work, or not care what our friends want or need because 'we need to be ourselves'. It's not even sarcasm to suggest that is what is being encouraged - it feels more like wilful ignorance. Masking is being unable to tell people you are struggling at all, because it marks you out as different. It means not being able to be open with loved one because you are trying just to be 'normal'. It means not listening to, or even not knowing, where your limits are, or the amount of capacity you have because you have been told that you *should* be able to do more. I know from personal experience it can lead to burnout and anxiety. Masking meant I wasn't diagnosed till I was 44. That I spent my life up till I was about 40 thinking I was bad at being a person because I struggled with things other people told me were easy. I think you conflate 'coping skills' that help us manage our adhd, with 'masking' where we pretend we don't have a problem at all. The adhd and autistic folk having this conversation do not make that mistake. It wouldn't occur to us to conflate them. You would do well to listen.
you would do well to stop using AI to write your comments
It is a negative because it usually involves a lot of LYING to people and then trying frantically to fix things before you are found out. And then feeling like a failure for having to repeat that again and again.
If you want to measure something scientifically - measure lying. Saying that you are ready when you are not. That you are done when you haven't started yet. That you understood when you are clueless. That you will be on time when you are on the wrong train and in the wrong part of the city. Things like this.
Couldnt agrer more. Lies on top of lies on top of lies on top of acting like you're not absolutely pis..d about everything all the time. So that youd seem like a relatively normal being and not a dumpster fire. It's constant and absolutely exhausting.
you are a failure and you are a liar. So what's wrong with that?
There's a HUGE difference between outright lying and battling our symptoms. Saying, "I'm ready," when you haven't even gotten out of bed is a lie. But saying, "I'm ready," and getting distracted/time blindness of "I have time to do [x] task before I leave" then being 10 minutes late leaving wouldn't be lying. Outright lying is not a part of masking or being ND.
@@annaedwards6004 can't really hide your true self without lying to at least somebody. To others or to yourself. It is in there somewhere.
@@annaedwards6004 Anna Edwards 6004 sounds like she knows a thing or two about lying. Am I right?
Having both adhd and autism, I do a lot of masking. I find it to be a good tool in daily life, and I only really see problems with masking when I don't get enough alone time. On family trips for example, I get really exhausted and have to hide somewhere so I can recharge, typically about 4-5 times a day or so. But I can't really say I mask my adhd symptoms much. The only thing I can think of really is coming up with excuses for why I did something when it's actually caused by adhd. But in my mind that feels more like an autism thing, since it's really the social part I'm masking for 😅
When I was placed in a cubicle with my back to an open door to a busy hallway and I was in a room of 4 people (I could only see one) who were constantly talking about sports I went crazy. Even on Zoloft I had to go the the bathroom stall multiple times a day to relax.
I have social anxiety and I have found that the best cure is to tell people I get anxious sometimes, but it's hard to do that when your boss hands the best projects to the "most reliable" person. When I mask when giving presentations my management tells me "You don't seem anxious, you just have a boring style. Try to give it more energy." A very odd criticism when I know I'm being calm to hold back the eruption of nervous energy. My point is Barkley is wrong that being quiet is a good thing. You'll never get to management that way. How calm was Steve Jobs?
@@edwardmitchell6581 I think Barkley ment that it's good to be quiet in settings were being energetic and noisy is unusual. In a work environment were being energetic is seen as good, so you could stop managing your adhd if you work at a place like that.
While learning skills and trying to meet social requirements has benefits. It does tend to result in significant long term health issues. We don’t really know what would happen if people didn’t mask. Very high numbers of neurodiverse people end up with chronic illness. Many certainly push themselves very hard, not so sure we have all the data on outcomes.
@@BrothireStrangLuve we have plenty of data on chronic illness. Naturally none on the outcomes of ‘not masking’. As something with ME/CFS, while i know this isn’t data it certainly feels experientially that masking contributed to my disease. Late diagnosis and shame. I’m not saying it’s the only factor. But a contributor.
@@susanramen1615 There is a kind of research science that measures only feelings, I think it's called 'qualitative'.
@@GrubbYuppie indeed, but it’s rarely given the weight of quantitative
@@GrubbYuppie unfortunately in every field there are experts that vibe with a majority of the group and experts that don’t. I think the chap is great, but there will be plenty who disagree to some degree on this stance. For many people the lived experiemce remains a trump card. I disagree, but I know some experts on some conditions do significant harms because of ignoring patient voice.
@@susanramen1615 The problem with patients' voices is that grating sound of hearing the same whinging for decades.
I think you need to difference. There ist adjusting masking (like redirect thoughts and impulses) and surpress things about you you actually enjoy! But people won't accept you!
It is NOT always choosing to adapt to neurotypicals. We have to! We have to almost kill sides of our inner being. Just to SURVIVE! To keep our job! To not get hated! To not be alone because people misunderstand us and expect (partly) unnecessary behavior from us We can't actually perform! But we can use enormous energy to fake it. Just to make others happy. Just to be loved. We have to hide our true self. Our true self is not loveable. People hate our true self.
Now I bet with you almost every ADHDer has experienced this or a similar thinking.
Sad thing: It's partly actually true because of misunderstandings. People misinterpret our odd behavior.
Good thing: They can learn to understand. And we can learn to not suppress impulses but to redirect them more softly. Therapy helped me. Both just needs time and baby steps. ❤
Sad Thing and Good Thing. You really know how to make your ideas relatable to adults.
I am 54 and was diagnosed way back in 1976. Had a horrible childhood due to side effects from the meds I was given. I was taken off meds around age 11 and almost instantly began early puberty. Thanks to books, ,movies, and general observation of others I was able to mimic neurotypical behavior. I became an actor and began to navigate the social arena with a few missteps along the way. I was a good student and learned rather quickly. By high school I had a circle of acquaintances and a few close friends. I got very good grades mostly [terrible at algebra]. Romantically, I had problems. First and foremost, I had extreme shame in being different and went to great lengths to hide my condition. That combined with a profound sense of rejection led to me having to lie to cover up my condition. This is not good for long term relationships and led to many break-ups. The upside to this is that I can play several instruments, I can hyper focus on certain tasks and produce good results for my employer and I have a voracious appetite for learning and discovery.
The way I think about it is: how would my life be different if I lived in a society that understood and accepted ADHD/ autism? I wouldn't have to be so ashamed when I forget important things, or when I interrupt someone or when I'm late again etc.
If society understood that some people have this neurotype and that we struggle immensely, maybe I wouldn't have to hide how hard certain things are for me. If society accepted ADHD, maybe people would be more understanding and there would be accomodations without us having to convince people why they are necessary.
People with more obvious disabilities are still treated poorly by our society, and they have no way to "mask" their limitations. ADHD people can sometimes mask to cover up our limitations, which feels like it might be a better option than getting treated poorly by the society around us.
We are aware that we will be treated better if we hide our disability. But it's exhausting and causes a lot of shame.
I hope someday you can tell someone you have ADHD and they won't immediately judge you negatively. Then I might actually get to be more myself.
you should just be ok with be ashamed. Let me be more clear, you should be very ashamed of yourself. You know what you did.
Yeah, this is really the first time/topic/video that I have had the thought that perhaps Dr.Barkley’s lack of personal experience of having ADHD or ASD (despite his vast knowledge, understanding and contributions) is a barrier to him fully comprehending what masking is, what it feels like and the effects it has on us.
For me masking is primarily an autism related term, but I can identify some very straining ADHD related behaviors with it too. Like the ever increasing stack of lies I told everybody around me, to desperatly pass as a somewhat functioning human being. It got pretty complex over the years and it was really hard to keep an overview about it.
I used my diagnosis as an opportunity to come clean with the level of disfunction to people I trust, and it's been a huge relieve for me.
Maybe they ment something like this?
Anyways keep up the great work, it's a huge help having a regular stream of input with some proven expertise attached to it.
If you told a stack of lies over the years you may have SPPD, shitty personality personality disorder.
I love this! Dr Barkley fact checking the Internet😄 I think this is a good format since there are so many 'experts' out there producing content for clicks and presenting them as facts. Thanks Dr. Barkley, keep on going!
Yeah.... no. Just no. He waaaaaaaay missed the mark on this one. He just invalidated just about every ND person alive.
@@annaedwards6004 care to elaborate?
@@annaedwards6004 who made you the spokes-thang for every ND person alive? Were you democratically elected?
masking has contributed to so many middle aged people not getting a diagnosis and treatment earlier. This treatment would've improved their lives and health enormously. For that reason alone, masking does harm, regardless of how much it makes others feel more comfortable.
We live in a society. If Dr Barkley wasn’t here to help give us tools to manage ourselves we would have much poorer life outcomes. If you WANT to float through life without regard for managing yourself, then Dr Barkley’s work isn’t the resource for you. You have a choice of resources. But to suggest that he’s “mean” to people with ADHD is not true. He’s done more to help people with ADHD than anyone in the medical field. He’s a scientist. He’s just presenting his well researched facts. How (or whether) you apply them to your life is up to you.
I cannot describe how beneficial learning to self regulate in the workplace has been. It is embarrassing to have outbursts, uncontrollable panic attacks, fits of tears, and anxiety while at work.
Still putting a thumb up because your work is so, so important and it needs more views ! I have a small thing to say though about the reactions I witness in the comments : I think, aswell as others, there is a misconceptions about what "masking" is and isn't and how it affects us.
Coping mechanisms as well as masking is good to adapt to social situations. But what I failed to perceive in your comment about this topic is that, while it is necessary for social skills and relationships, it is certainly happening more often to and is putting a strain on people with adhd. Whatever terminology we use, even if masking isn't supported by scientific facts in adhd people, coping skills can sometimes be restraining and hard to deal with, as much as it is obviously necessary.
I have both adhd and autism and I really enjoy my social life when I have one. However, it's been so difficult keeping up with my feelings, social tiredness, concentration and overall energy that I can't just keep up with it. My friends will not see me for a few weeks because I feel easily burned out, but then I'll pop again and come to parties every now and then, all of this happening in a cycle.
What maybe has triggered people in the comment is the fact there is something challenging still happening, whatever we call this phenomenon, and that in the end it's kind of swept away with one hand by saying "it's just normal, get along with it". Of course it's normal, and we shouldn't romantize symptoms as "empowering quirks" when it's just weighing on us and hindering our growth as a person. However, I feel like, and maybe others felt that, it would have been appreciated to highlight that it can be very stressful and quite heavy on our minds. It's a long journey to get there, and as much as I know you are 100% supportive and empathetic to people with this condition, it maybe didn't reflect as well here, considering the reactions that have arisen.
Wish you a very good day sir ! Kind regards.
This is the first video of yours I have had a negative reaction to. I really appreciate how you always approach every topic from a thoroughly researched viewpoint, but in this case I feel like you missed a huge aspect of it and reduced the emotional toll having ADHD can have on a person.
There is, from my perspective, a massive difference between what we do to fit in, accommodate and accomplish things, and what we do to hide our personalities and suppress our impulses. The former is about functioning. The latter is about making ourselves less than we are, lying to ourselves and others about our struggles, blaming ourselves for the things we have a hard time doing and generally bending over backwards to fit into a societal mold in which many of us simply don’t fit. The effort it takes to go through life pretending to be something you’re not is taxing.
As an example, I was diagnosed a year ago, at 33. I have spent this past year looking back, analyzing every bad decision, every friendship I lost, every course I dropped, every job I got fired from, every round of depression I battled. All of it was a result of my constant attempts to hide who I was and the things I was struggling with. If I had stopped pretending to be like everyone else and instead been honest and behaved on the outside how I feel on the inside, I would have been diagnosed 20 years ago.
Masking isn’t just about suppressing your urge to run out of meetings at your job so you don’t get fired or suppressing the need to interrupt so you don’t annoy the people around you. It’s about trying to change who you fundamentally are as a person, to the point where you become a stranger to yourself, overexert yourself and/or lose the ability to listen to you body’s signals.
I have worked so hard to suppress my urge to run away from uncomfortable situations, that I have lost the ability to know when I should. As a result, it takes me days to recover from some social situations, because I should have left an hour earlier than I did. I have practiced reducing how much I talk to the point where I now hardly talk at all. The only exception to this is a friend I recently met, who also has ADHD. She is the only person I feel comfortable being 100% myself around. I was so sad to realize that she is also the only person in the world who has actually met the real me. I have robbed every other friend and every single family member of getting to know who I am, because I was too concerned with pretending to be something else.
There are consequences to working too hard to fit in. It robs us of personality, enthusiasm, joy and, most noticably, energy. Masking is useful, yes. Occasionally necessary. But for many of us, it’s constant. It’s hard work. And it prevents us from aiding in changing the world into a place that can better accommodate us the way we need it to.
Keep typing you comment.....you're almost making sense.
@@BrothireStrangLuve Perhaps you should practice the art of disagreeing with someone on the internet without acting on the impulse to insult them. If you have anything of substance to add to the conversation, please feel free to do so.
@@quenyasansel I was trying to be encouraging. You're almost making sense.....keep trying....never give up.....be best.
@@BrothireStrangLuve Whatever happened in your life to make you this way, I am truly sorry. I hope you find happiness and peace.
Dont be sorry….adhd made me this way.
TLDR: I am psychologist who works with ADHD folk. Curious what others think as I not sure this message is helpful to all ADHDers. In fact, for young children or less aware ADHDers this may be a helpful message but for those who may then over-mask and can't share or connect to others could result in harm their relationships and increase their depression risk.
Masking motivation in NT vs ADHDers:
In many ADHDers, masking comes from a position of anxiety. Neurotypical social behaviours like turn-taking may be come from more positive motivations e.g. curiosity/empathy while rigid or excessive masking can look functional but cuts the person off from feeling safe/relaxed enough to receive positive social feedback. This is because they may be so concerned of judgement and drained monitoring themselves they don't have the brain power or security to more than follow simple conversation scripts.
We all need positive and energizing social experiences to solidify core beliefs like, "I am good and wanted" and fuel more positive automatic thoughts. This helps bring us out of ourselves and truly engage with the other person. Therefore, often even when the over masker does inhibit themselves and exhibit normal and needed social skills they can't receive and feel the positive social feedback they are so stressed and drained.
ADHDers receive thousands of more negative messages in childhood than NT e.g. being too talkative, weird or not good enough. This can contribute to a higher depressive risk than NT. Without the ability to authentically connect there is no correction of these beliefs from "I am stupid/unlovable" to "I am good and wanted by others".
Social self:
Presenting a social self is an important skill (not dominating others in conversation, knowing when to pause hurtful behaviour). It isn't inauthentic to try to be organized or consider others.
Self-inhibition is important to practice and our executive functioning can hopefully strengthen as we do. This will help us to put the breaks on chatter when we know oversharing isn't appropriate e.g. not telling a GP administrator unnecessary details about your hernia when they book your appointment. It may also help us to write more professional emails to our boss if we can pause to edit it better.
Maybe when an ADHDer doesn't have the time or resources to regulate or take a break to build up their cognitive reserves some level of masking may be necessary to get by. e.g. not having an emotional outburst when the administrator won't approve your license renewal because you made a form error.
However, taken too far, this message above could possibly create unhelpful levels of shame/low mood and disconnection for those with ADHD who do have higher inhibitory control and already very self-conscious.
All in all socializing is about balance between considering how you empathize with and affect others and authenticity to connect. Encouraging a positive motivation of empathy and connection seems healthier than promoting shame and fear of rejection. These are simply observations from my clients I see in private practice. Curious what others think!
"You have ADHD? Just behave like you don't have ADHD" Yes, it's a really harmful shit
Incredibly harmful especially when it is more frequently paired with child ab… from parents.
@@BrothireStrangLuve Yes
@@TsutsuYumeGunnm Do you believe that Cry Baby Personality Disorder is real or just a made up diagnosis?
@@GreenSharpieScience Dr. Green Pseudo Science, I have a feeling you know a thing or two about abuse. You called a person with adhd a "crap person".
I used to be super enraged at people in conflict situations. Later I would regret it and see that the situation was not as bad as I felt at that moment. With time I've learned to contain my rage and to calm down, analyze and talk calmly about the conflict. I am glad that I was able to come to that point. If that is what people see as masking, so be it. I'll continue to do what is helpful to me.
Thank you Dr. Barkley!!
No, that's is managing your destructive symptoms, just like using alarms to keep track of time, or medication to manage executive functioning problems. Masking would be to stop yourself from stimming in public, or pretending you remember someone's name when they introduced themselves 5 minutes ago. Masking is when you say "what?" when someone starts talking to you, because your brain doesn't process what you heard right away, and if you don't fill the gap, people will think you're rude/weird.
keep contain your rage but remember no one cares
Masking is absolutely universal for all social creatures. Based on my experiences, though, i think that adhders may forget to or miss cues to mask. Perhaps this contributes to why many adhders seem "off" while socializing, despite feeling that they behaved appropriately. I look forward to more research into masking being done which I can apply to better connect with others
I would like to see more research on this subject. As coping skills are very important in everyday life to be able to keep jobs and be socially acceptable I do think the amount of effort is different for those of us with ADHD than neurotypical. It is exhausting to be always thinking about how to behave and regulate ourselves to be productive in society. I wonder if it leads to a higher rate of burnout symptoms. Also how does it affect home life when we come home exhausted from using our coping skills and no longer have energy to clean the home or make dinner. Maybe the research isn’t there, but I would argue that is a negative side effect.
U r a blessing 2 thoseof us that r learning coping mechanisms whilst in a challenging situation out in public or social setting. I honour ur insight and teachings. Gratitude 🎉❤
This is why you're a real one, Dr. Barkley. Pushing back on bullshit like this 24/7.
Masking is definitely harder for ADHD people and more frequently required, to the point it can become a chronic stressor, but that's just part of life. Big part of growing up I think is learning how to fit in better, but also accepting the things you can't change or mask, and figuring out the difference between the two.
I accept and will not mask my ADHD entirely but I sure as hell am not going to just accept all the negative and annoying things that come with it.
Masking is one reason I remained undiagnosed, and I believed I was lazy and a failure because I couldn't keep up. There may not be research, but I lost a job and developed chronic health problems. What you call coping I call hiding symptoms that may have led to earlier diagnosis and developing more appropriate and healthier coping skills.
I've literally masked enough to trigger a major depressive episode. Because the level of masking my boss wanted was toxic level happy. I ended up going to my union rep and said that level and the "smile even when. No one can see you" was a list and sexist and I'd do calm and respectful but not my little pony happy.
The example of behaviors that are suggested as ideal and commonplace here are outside of the boundaries of what masking usually describes informally amongst the communities I've encountered. One example might be to lie about one's capability at work while disregarding the effort it takes to properly use coping skills to stay on track, and the purpose might be an attempt to prevent a manager from knowing the employee has ADHD, in an industrial setting where seeking protection under the ADA isn't feasible. I don't know of research, but I do know that even with ADA accomodations, masking even if coping behaviors and addressing specific needs has proven risky since mental health remains a major red flag in industries where firing and hiring another employee is the standard. This of course might be argued to point more toward systemic problems in the US corporate world.
My larger fear is that we collectively need to maintain clarity of language. These are all behaviors I've encountered labeled "masking": masking ADHD/Autism, code-switching in terms of racial identity, covering in terms of gender and sexual orientation, hiding disability/health status. Then, there's the concept of etiquette and what aspects of etiquette are tied to negative beliefs involving other groups from the above.
What a disservice it is to oversimplify; while it is likely easier for topics sharing the same language to spread rapidly, just as we would measure any of these with their own acoring system, we would as readily benefit from sucy clarity.
@@smh-smh-smh I totally agree. For example, I feel there's a significant difference between "masking" impulsive urges that would be socially disruptive or harmful, and hiding how many extra hours you spent (unpaid) getting work done in order to appear to be as productive as your co-workers.
SMH, when you use AI to write out your comments you sound like a fucked up robot. Also, no one cares.
I just saw your correction video before this and the whole thing is interesting and could be confusing.
I as early child diagnosed, and later much later diagnosed as adult. I worked in hospitality for 27 years and had to learn the customers who could joke and those that just wanted their own experience many of them were my regular customers. I learned how to approach many different kinds of people and that skill has been so valuable in all my life experiences. It is a joy to my brain to look like a goth/metal guy and converse with people who are from all kinds of status race, sexual preference, business lawyers, (they included separately) for obvious reasons
Seems to me like some "masking" or "coping" is something everyone does to a certain DEGREE. The question is how much of it? Take it on a case by case basis. If someone with adhd does it and it makes them feel terrible, let's look into why. Can therapy or talking about it, or planning tools help with it? Does medication help it? If there seems to be no relief from it after investigating, then I think it's fair to say it is bad for the person to internalize that feeling.
Just today I was thinking maybe I should ask about masking in the channel. You're right absolutely about confusing masking with coping. On the other hand unconscious or undiagnosed coping might lull people into believing they don't have ADHD, they are just "scattered minds" or "not that motivated". For example if you set up an alarm for any little task, it's a good coping strategy, but it doesn't mean you don't have time blindness... So when they ask if you're late with things or you're unaware of time you might trick the psychiatrist and yourself, just because a well practiced strategy is overcoming the neurological issue.
"Dr. Rod Opszin", great porn name....but you actually seem so smart.........................
I never understood masking, like isn’t it normal to just not scream randomly and act like a child, even if you have a burst of energy? Now the part that makes sense to me is the damages of truly pretending you don’t have a problem and letting it cut deep into you, and never addressing it, like at work and letting a barrage of expectations pile up without any external help or understanding.
By all accounts I want to be viewed as normal, I just want to be normal, my brain doesn’t let me so easily, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t worth it. I suppose the better question I would ask is, what is the healthy thing to do, because sure, the effort and energy put in to appear totally normal can be a lot, but is there a healthy way to handle that, or help with that?
I haven’t had CBT or anything, just adderall and slowly addressing things with my therapist like how important sleep is, but my old job was killing me and eventually got me fired, so I can’t even afford to see my therapist now.
I’ll admit, that makes it super hard to even want to go back into a full time day job that cares very little for my struggles or my strengths for that matter, so it feels kinda like I’m damned if I do, damned if I don’t.
Once again: NO ONE CARES
@@BrothireStrangLuve you sure do
@@ApolloTheDerg "NO ONE CARES TRY HARDER" is my creed
@@BrothireStrangLuve cope harder* come on bro, this is some C tier trolling at best, you can do better than that
@@ApolloTheDerg thanks for the encouragement and I'll take that C tier. C=A+ in my world. I'm a lazy troll because I'm hunting for cry baby predators who will bite on anything. You know when you hook one because they go dark very quickly. It takes it's toll but I'll be bored of them in a few day. Cope hard bro.
I think you might like Paul from Autism on the Inside’s video about masking. While not academic, his description of it I think would mesh with yours but expand it a bit. His take, which I think is a fairly common autistic attitude, is that masking is natural and all people mask (like we put on a mask to go to a job interview.) But that because masking can be more costly for ND people living in an NT world, we should look at what we do as masking behavior critically and decide if it is serving us. For example, he suggests if you don’t like small talk, learning some techniques for starting deeper but still socially appropriate conversations with strangers/acquaintances. Or for a more adhd example, are you being quiet during conversations and being sure not to dominate them - or are you over correcting and making people think you aren’t interested in them? I agree these are important things to do, don’t blurt out insults at people just because you thought of them. But sometimes there is a middle ground where our mask can fit better or be easier to maintain. Sometimes self criticism has created a mask that’s more intensive than necessary.
Lastly, if you recognizes these coping mechanisms or masking take effort, maybe you need to schedule recovery time. That might be harder for adhders than autistics but it seems like a wise accommodation. Maybe you can’t go from a work day to a hectic family dinner without a period of rest. A lot of adhders fail to recognize this kind of stuff and then don’t know why they are disregulated. This also reminds me of Dr Mona Dellahooke’s concept of the body budget, based on Dr Lisa Feldman Barrett’s work on allostasis… We must learn to recognize what drains us to learn how to refill our tank.
As a researcher, I profoundly like Dr. Russell’s fine humor. Believe me if I say that his criticism is formulated as mildly as it can be by a world-renowned scientist. He strangely unites two figures, often tense: the systematic, unmerciful facts analyzer and the consciously service-ready teacher who tries to help you understand complex topics without making you happy by selling you some unreal simplifications. He reminds me of that quote from Aristotle: “Plato is dear to me, but dearer still is truth.”
I agree, I’m a scientist too and he does a great job of it every week. And I really appreciate that he does this, honestly more of us should!
However on this topic, especially given the lack of data, I personally feel he has come to the absolutely wrong conclusions in many ways.
While he acknowledges that everyone masks to an extent to adhere to social norms and that this has social value, which is absolutely true, he definitely denigrates the inherent value and worth of ADHD traits as essentially annoying and inappropriate in society. And there are two points I take issue with in his answer. Firstly, given the enormous outpouring of identification with masking online and the very negative toll being self reported by those with adhd, it is a notable statement and should not be dismissed so ridiculously as not being harmful just because he says so. Simply, when someone tells you about their experiences you should pretty much always believe them. Just on that point alone his stance is very problematic.
The next issue is that he’s working from the assumption that neurotypical society and values are what should be held as preferable. And yes knowing how to modulate oneself in a neurotypical environment is important for many reasons, but it is not necessarily the better environment and shouldn’t be assumed as such. Research in autism has found that while there is a breakdown in communication between autistic and neurotypical people, no such communication gap exists between autistic and autistic communication. (In other words it’s just because there are more neurotypicals that this is the predominant form of communication). Something similar is probably true for ADHD. One way that comes to mind which he specifically addresses here is ADHD disruptive conversation. There may be great functional value to disrupting conversations and to engage in more free form conversations to lead to better ideas. Sure it’s important to know how to be respectful of others. But what is good for one person (the neurotypical point to point to point) type of conversation may be very limiting for someone with ADHD (which tends to be more fractal/tangential patterns). This inherent aspect of adhd can be quite valuable and valid and neurotypicals can also benefit from adapting to this kind of conversation pattern too (research needed). So just because our society deems this behavior as ‘impolite’ it shouldn’t cost someone with adhd a life time of being able to contribute because they have been taught they have to spend so much of their mental energy on making sure they don’t interrupt rather than just having ideas they could otherwise be contributing. Right?
The overall point is that ADHD is not a bad thing that people should be told they need to hide or mask. Masking is a redirection of resources to placate societal norms, not something inherently needed to be done for any other reason, and it is obviously draining for that reason. If someone with ADHD disrupts a conversation maybe it’s time we teach neurotypicals that some people are different from them and just as people with adhd are taught to spend every moment and extra bit of extra energy controlling how they are harmlessly different, maybe neurotypicals can start to learn to adjust to the idea not everyone has to accommodate them all of the time and that it’s ok and even a good thing that some people are different than them.
I’m not saying little kids don’t need to understand how to manage their adhd in certain situations. I’m talking about as adults its should not be considered rude to jump in a conversation with an idea, by anyone. (Or that fidgeting be a sign of disrespect or the effects of time blindness when it can be accommodated etc.)
We loose so much by teaching ADHD people to spend half their daily energy masking rather than a minor change to societies views of inclusivity.
His views here are ablest.
🙏🙏🙏
As a (former) researcher myself, I must say he unfortunately completely disregards the biases and blind spots inherent in the way research is actually done, though.
Island for ADHDs - Here we need no masks
You just quoted Aristotle.
This misses the entire point of why most people with ADHD don't like masking.
It's because they've been shamed about tons of stuff. Like me. I used to fidget a lot. My entire life I was told to sit still, or stop bouncing my leg. Even though I loved doing it. Now I'm a full blown adult, and I still feel shame about it. There's also social masking, like, behaving a different way in public, vs say, trying to overcome your disorder by forcing yourself to work harder or something. That is also masking.
I get burnt out when I have to perform a regular persons day. I can do it, but at the end of the day I don't feel good. So that masking, I don't think is helpful. Yes, I got through the day, but at the expense of my mental health.
It is also just stigmatized in general, acting even slightly different. Stimming in public can be incredibly helpful for some of us, but not when people get hostile or annoyed at it. So we mask. And that actually led me to be so self conscious about it that I constantly worry about annoying someone. That too is masking, and the end result is more mental strain. We shouldn't have to mask things like this in public to be accepted. It's one thing to burp out loud in front of people, that's considered gross and rude, it's another to be shaking your leg or playing with a toy to keep yourself regulated.
I really think you need to take another look at this whole thing.
If I would not manage my ADHD, my world would be a lot like that SNL sketch "What up with that?" all day every day! Fun for a while but nothing of value would get done. I agree that a lot they mention here is just us with ADHD managing our symptoms which we should do to lead full lives!
hilarious comparison. I love "What's up with that?" on SNL!!! 🤣 ooooooo eeee! What's up with that! What's up with that?
"Authentic self" is also a very limiting concept. As if our personality was totally congruent, unchangeable, and stationary. Our behaviour is always situational, depending on inner and outer factors. One moment I might blow a fuse, the next moment or some other time I might find the same thing funny. If I act on all my initial emotions, why would that be more authentic to myself than giving myself time to process which feeling aligns best my longer term ideals and goals. A baby might be most "authentic" of all human beings. It's not my idea of self fulfillment, though.
I believe this is a result of insufficient data, not that there is "no evidence" of masking causing harm. This video encouraged me to think critically about medical specialists and their use of power.
I will continue to find my main source of "evidence" in the neurodivergent community. Which, ironically, is where I have found the most understanding and appropriate support - something that the medical field could never and will never provide for me.
Krist-388, that is not evidence that you found. It is magical thinking in the land of phonies where you, for whatever reason, are always welcome.
@@BrothireStrangLuve you're probably right
Now, at 75 years old (diagnosed 2 years ago) I understand ADHD. So, this knowledge along with self awareness allows me to deal effectively with my thoughts and behaviours. I had a lifetime of masking my emotions and behaviours to avoid conflict and “fit in” socially. I was generally “ successful” and socially appropriate, but myself esteem was low and I had problems with anxiety and depression. And I also withdrew emotionally which impacted my relationships. Masking was more of a survival technique for me😔
Now, I that understand my ADHD (huge gratitude to you Dr Barkley) I can chose rather than just react! For me, it’s awareness and the element of choice! I also take care of myself better - mostly though taking time to be alone. Music (piano, guitar) and cycling are two of my activities where I rejuvenate myself. I am much happier now, and I am more honest and open with others and I can do that respectfully to both others and myself. 🙏🏼
I thought your 2 activities were watching videos and commenting on videos.
The verywellmind article is a good example of why I do not systhematically trust psychologists, which can have in some cases surprisingly impared reality testing abilities, given their alledged expertise…
This may be the most adhd comment that I've read today....and I agree with every jumbbled (sic) word.
Masking is absolutely essential in the environments that I have worked in.
Masking, when done right (for me) is like playing grown-up, like we did as kids. It works for me.
There is still massive discrimination in the South African workplace.
I'm currently dealing with a supervisor who tries to find triggers to inflame, daily, even though our CEO is also ADHD. And he hired me.
And I am also Autistic, but saying AuDHD is triggering for me. ADHD is enough. I deal with the rest. It feels like I'll cause a stampede if they realized and met all of me 😂
If you could fund ANY studies for adhd in adults or children. So that they were gold standard. What would you choose? What numbers would you need and how long would each last for.
I have experienced so many disadvantages and have damaged opportunities to acquire new friends and colleagues due to poor self-control and impulsivity. There has been interpersonal conflicts in my life since I can remember myself. For a long time I didn't know why. Now there is at least one possible explanation to that. With time, way too late actually, I realized that being authentic only caused me trouble. And yes, masking is exhausting, this is true. Actually, everybody surpresses their impulses and thoughts if they consider them to be inappropriate. But exactly this is soooo hard for people with ADHD. Often, when I am around other people, I feel anxious and full of fear to do something wrong and therefore I am too tense and tight that I still end up to at least feel completely inappropriate and awkward or even do something awkward. But I learned some lessons that now help me to a massive degree compared to the earlier decades. One of which is to never drink alcohol when I am around people whose opinion matters to me but whom I cannot trust completely. I also found out that intentional relaxation of my body, my neck, my face, my shoulders, and directing my attention with respect and kindness towards others distracts me from anxious thoughts about my own appearance and really helps me to lead a friendly and interesting conversations.
Really well explained. I’d never thought of masking in this way and it makes a lot more sense from this perspective.
This is NOT what masking truly is. He actually very much invalidated what masking actually is. The websites he referenced (and subsequently ripped apart) are more accurate.
@@annaedwards6004 it's accurate to how i see myself masking.
@@annaedwards6004 Anna Edwards 6604, is the Head Witch of the Confederation of False Victims BUT she was not democratically elected so keep that in mind as her forked tongue slithers around in it's mouth.
hello Doctor.
very grateful for your dedication, time, effort and for spending your life researching and finding out about ADHD to be able to help so many people.
blessings to you and your loved ones
I think there's a difference in defining 'masking' here from how I've often seen it used as of late in my personal experiences and how I've typically seen it used as of late online. So I guess how it is defined makes a big difference. I have not read the articles you cited, and I have no idea how bad they are.
I totally agree that the kind of social adaptation to others, that almost all people do practically all the time in almost any social situation, is completely normal. It's simply a part of normal human social life.
When I've often heard the term 'masking' used specifically in reference to neurodivergent conditions, such as ADHD or ASD, it is like it is referring to another kind of 'masking'. Essentially... only referring to hiding one's neurodivergent symptoms or traits... almost all the time, even when it might not cause any annoyance or harm to others, in order to attempt to 'pass for normal' and fit in more. Sometimes, it seems to me that it can be discussed in relation to things such as stigmatizing social situations and concepts of self worth.
If thought of as another kind of 'masking' in this neurodivergent-only sense or conceptualization, then it makes total sense that some people would suggest that neurodivergent people would need to mask neurodivergent symptoms more than people who don't have those symptoms (to worry about to that degree and in that way).
yet another mega-comment while your cats are being neglected
Don't chime in on most of these, however, the idea of masking goes back to the Tragedies. Or, to the 16 Temperaments, more likely known properly as the "4 Temperaments". It's rooted in the English language as well as many other languages. Why we use phrases like "hot air" or "cold mood"; Choleric, Sanguine, Phlegmatic and Melancholic. Good deal of psychology is also rooted in the 4 Temperaments called other things.
Maybe anyway. Been studying the neurosciences and psychology more broadly for decades, but it often strikes me that much of it is based in philosophy from over a millennium ago. This might be more of a linguistics argument to have than of any use to anyone. Not saying this holds weight over weighted research in any way. Am saying, the research carries with it old baggage. That is, how we think about things is tainted by the limitations of how we think about things.
Guess another way to put that is that some languages don't have terms for pink, brown, or other colors and the people using those languages don't see those colors as such. Not because they don't perceive them. Rather because the don't have the language to perceive them. Doesn't help we can only perceive 3 colors and our minds kind of make up the colors. Assuming that lit hasn't changed. Been awhile since I looked at it.
Note: This is likely known to most through drama classes. Granted, they tend to only show or use 2 of the masks.
ADHD-ers and neurotypicals do need to mask some traits to match socially. But then again - who decides what is socially accepted? That changes over time. More awareness of neurodivergence may (hopefully) lead to adhering social norms to society in its fullness, not only to "Typicals".
Yes, I know that everybody needs to bend to some degree because it's inevitable for norms to be general. Still, I am surprised at how overly simplified this topic is presented. Here and on cited websites.
In my opinion, there are some traits/tendencies that "have to be" masked, but there is a plethora of behaviours and emotions that hopefully someday will be understood and accepted by neurotypicals
Olga Anna 8864, I am deeply offended by the term "adhd-ers". I prefer the person first term "person with MBD, minimal brain dysfunction. Also, neither you nor your cat are neurodivergent, you're both just anodyne.
HI Dr. Barkley, I feel like this video sort of misses the mark a bit. I understand that there is no research to back this up, but given the overlap with Autism and the overwhelming amount of people sharing their feelings about this, it's hard to deny it's an issue that people with ADHD are concerned about, regardless of whether it occurs more commonly or not that the general population. I would have preferred you look into ways we might study this phenomena, ways we might seek to understand whats going on here, rather than just dismissing this based on what a few articles say.
I'm a person with adhd and I'm not concerned about it. N=1
I would love to see more research in this area. As a single person diagnosed with ADHD recently in my late thirties, I am often myself by myself of course, like I hope everyone is. It's so hard to determine how much to mask when it comes to social interactions though and that certainly does not help my stress or thoughts of the future (not that I hate being single, it's just less security when I get older, and less reassurance as a person). I had tutoring for social skills back in middle school because my teachers thought I needed it from having pretty much no friends and things haven't changed drastically. I can mask for work as I work with people daily in customer service-type role and it's so exhausting. I went on medical leave from my job for the maximum I could at the end of last year from it (combined with some family stuff, but it 80% the work). Still work there, still struggle passing as normal for money but I don't love it and wish I had a better way to go on that (do have a strong fondness for the company I work for oddly enough)
Adding to my comment, I just finished reading Small Talk by Roxanne and Richard Pink about how they focused on strategies for not how handle daily tasks and such like they originally intended, but ways to help give yourself better self-talk as someone with ADHD so that you don't dislike yourself so much (which is definitely a huge struggle of mine) and I wish there were more books like this. It's clearly not majorly based on scientific research (though they do cite some sources for points brought) and is mostly about experiences Roxy has gone through and continues to go through, but I found it rather helpful the last few weeks to feel less bad about myself and self-talk tendencies I have
adhd is a disruption of executive functions, and one of them is self-awareness and self-reflection. surely if that executive function is disrupted, how can one truly mask? masking is an choice, something one does to hide their "authentic self". but wouldnt it require those executive functions to be fully functional in order to make that deliberate decision to mask?
I have disagreements with the framing here. Obviously engaging in management strategies on a consistent basis should be a goal. But if that does require consistent mental effort I think it would be important to recognize that, and create support structure that would allow yourself "recovery time" so to speak.
I came to this video via your clarification/apology video - I don't often comment on youtube, but just wanted to let you know that this video resonated with me. I didn't get the sense you were mocking anyone other than the content creators. And I agree with you!
I was diagnosed late in life, after I had jumped through many mental health hoops in my 30's to address what I always thought we "just me". I did the hard therapy work, and really improved my emotional state. I was able to cope better with work, a social life and close relationships. I couldn't quite put my finger on why I was so uncomfortable with the "anti-masking" movement, but you helped clarify this for me.
As a long-time lurker of ADHD content on the internet, I really feel masking started as a "you might do this more than the average person, watch your energy levels" but went onto "don't try to regulate yourself". I fundamentally disagree with this 'don't try' idea - my "masking", or rather, coping strategies, came after much effort and work (and expense), and are "authentically me". They help me not to explode at my partner, they help me make sure I'm not in the bathroom at work crying every other day.
I really see lots of young ADHD people really latch onto this "don't try" mentality around executive function and it always felt not-quite-right. It just feels like 'giving up' on curiosity, wellbeing and looking after those around you. Once they're learned & integrated, they're *easy*. They are a part of you. Sure, it's harder to establish them in the first place than perhaps neurotypical people, but the payoff is so worth it.
Thank you so much for your content - it's an amazing service you do for us all.
I guess that coping/masking in undiagnosed pple that don't get help goes along with shame, low self esteem, self-worth and can be linked to anxiety, depression and other co-morbidities. So here I wish we would have more research. The conclusion, to just behave authentically is not the best one. But to understand and learn to cope and not deny yourself or even self-loathe is crucial and way harder for ADHD pple than typical ones.
Why on earth would I deny myself self-loathing? How else will I know that it's time for my Vyvanse?
Dr Barkley I can see where you're coming from and how Masking is important to integrate us ADHDers into society. But our true happiness and peace comes from building our own world and no longer have to join a system that is backwards from the way our mind thinks. My first 40 years I spent accommodating society. Now I do things my own way and accommodate only myself.
My symptoms are getting harder to mask and control at 60
I've been learning a lot from your videos these past few weeks, as I'm starting to learn more about ADHD, and how it has affected my life since childhood. I think, for you, this topic might warrant a bit more curiosity and more engagement with those who have the experience of masking.
see? who says you can't learn?
Kind of mirrors my thoughts on the topic. It's not so much that masking isn't real, but where's the dividing line between it being a pathology and just a normal fact of social life? Would staying in the closet amount to masking for LGBTQ people? What about someone sticking through a bad marriage for the sake of their children and their social standing in their community? Once again, I'm not against the concept, but I'd want to see it defined more specifically and studied.
I would say that you brought up a good point....but you didn't.
Masking means conforming to social rules, so of course people who are different do it more. And hiding the fact that you struggle to function normally (due to any condition) is harmful because you don't get help, and it's exhausting and leads to breakdowns and burnout.
You seen to know a lot about burnout, harmfulness, exhaustion, and breakdowns. But do you know about SPPD? Shitty personality personality disorder.
There does seem to be confusion between coping and masking. Most of the examples are coping strategies. Masking is hiding the challenges, the causes and the coping strategies.
Masking for ADHD would be like lying about traffic instead of admitting that you misjudged the time it would take to do something. If you could be honest about your condition and the other person was understanding, instead of their response being "try harder", it could be, "how can I help? or, let's make a plan".
Proactively, unmasking and honesty would allow accommodations to help cope, like allowing or creating a 15 minute buffer for scheduling.
Instead of forcing someone with ADHD to sit still in a meeting, struggling to pay attention, and failing, which they do to mask. Unmasking would be to allow them to pace in the back of the room or fidget with something in order to pay attention.
A lot of ADHD masking is to avoid the labels others put on us, primarily around disrespect, laziness and forgetfulness.
Regardless of medication and coping strategies, our hurdles are higher and more frequent. Understanding someone has different needs and challenges, without viewing their actions as disrespect, incompetence, or a lack of caring, is how they'll unmask.
Unmasking doesn’t mean acting however you feel. It means responding to someone's best efforts with flexibility, grace, and understanding. Unmasking allows us to include and enlist others in how we cope.
Grace with standards. Recognizing when someone is legitimately trying, but some things are just simply out of their control while not allowing them to walk all over you because of it. I sent an old boss an explanation/apology message, and she responded with, "I see how hard you're trying, and I appreciate it," and I literally burst out sobbing. The one and only time I've had a superior respond that way and the biggest reason I try to be so accommodating toward others.
@@annaedwards6004 you literally burst out sobbing. That is the number one trait of Cry Baby Personality Disorder.
The article on the site that referenced your book probably was written by AI and just hallucinated.
My exact thoughts.
I am very interested to hear Dr Barkleys response to the comments section! It seems that there may be some perspectives or angles he didn’t cover that he may do well to try to understand. I hope he does this in a compassionate way - he has been a real life changer for me. We all have more to learn!
Great conversations here. As social animals we're mostly all self-regulating to get by in life, ADHD or not, riding the line between what's expected and what's natural. A good thing, but somewhere along the line masking has become conflated with self-regulating, creating the problem for us now. I could say it has 'literally become conflated', to illustrate how other words have quickly evolved meaning too through popular use, but I won't. The first I read of masking with ADHD was Linda Roggli's 2021 additudemag article (7 Masks We Use to Hide Our Faults), talking about the intricate facades some with ADHD create to hide personality traits causing them most shame, describing 7 'popular' masks.
For the people she's describing, the 'masks have been in place for a long time' and those people 'forget they are wearing them' - it's an extreme outcome of everyday masking. She's analysing and evaluating what she's seen. She's creating a hypothesis using the idea of masks, linking to ADHD traits, and it's decent high level Bloom's taxonomy thinking. You can't reject it because it's not in the literature, if it's just a hypothesis. Also those affected tend to be older and in denial, so they won't present, and certainly won't engage. You can't mock it for being a loose figurative concept, when such metaphors can be effective communication of more complex scientific ideas. You can't discredit the idea because others have run with it and confused the meaning. This extreme description of the 'mask' - as it was originally intended - deserves more critical thinking and study.
To many of us who've experienced it, usually with older friends and family, the impact is real and serious. It's evolved to become a complex issue well beyond any underlying ADHD traits, becoming more insidious personality disorders and maladaptive traits. Very different to earlier ADHD coping strategies, but related. We know the problem grows beyond the quirk, and when someone is using their fabricated self to distort reality, to justify their behaviour or hold others to account, blaming others for outcomes of their own creation, then relationships break down, and their facade falls apart like the Wizard of Oz. Despite this, when their entire self-esteem is dependent on 'the mask', typically they double down. William Eddy's "It's All Your Fault!" is a very enlightening take on the same dynamics from a legal experience perspective. This is the extreme outcome of earlier more benign coping strategies, when the so-called mask became reality, and ultimately the only way to preserve a relationship with these people is to go along with their blatant inauthenticity. The cognitive distortion is a big reason why undue stress is directed from caregivers onto developing children, who benefit from a calm rational environment, and I hope the authenticity movement has some positive impact on that relationship to limit intergenerational effects. Honestly I'd hate to see this baby thrown out with the bathwater ..
It's open try outs for the Victim Olympics and from reading many comments below the competition is FIERCE. Team coach Imma Busy Being A Whinger will sign you right up.
What if you’re unconsciously masking with coping techniques and you don’t even know that you have ADHD? I went to school in the 80s and I didn’t know I had ADHD until this year. For 30 years everyone said my list-making and pacing around on phone calls looked exhausting and I was getting treated for the anxiety and depression that was building up all that time. There seem to be two sorts of masking: a) you masking your known ADHD behaviors and b) your coping strategies masking your ADHD from you and your doctors.
What was your favorite year of the 80's?
I feel like this is arguing at cross purposes, and comes down to understanding of definitions. I can't speak to what the websites quoted here presented, but "masking", as it's commonly used among people with ADHD, especially adult diagnoses, is not about exerting self control in public, which is absolutely desirable, but rather that peculiar condition of always being forced to lie about our failures. An example from my own life, I am a very bad correspondent. I forget messages, I forget the people who sent me messages. By the time I remember I was supposed to reply to a message, it has become an embarrassment, so embarrassing that I now AVOID replying. My strategy for many years for dealing with this embarrassment was to lie. My phone broke, I forgot my password, etc. Any excuse to avoid admitting that I, yet again, forgot you exist. That the reason we haven't spoken in six months is because I was too embarrassed to admit that I failed. Again. Shame spiral, self hatred. Always swearing to do better, but always failing exactly the same way.
Now, having received my diagnosis and undergoing treatment, I understand WHY I cannot do this seemingly simple thing. I no longer need to lie to avoid upsetting people. I no longer feel the need to beat myself up for my failures, because I know no amount of self-flagellation will allow me to correct or discipline myself in this way. I address my shortcomings openly, put new strategies in place, and work with my strengths, instead of spending all my energy constantly trying to hide my weaknesses. I set reminder alarms for important messages. I ask my partner to remind me to text so-and-so back. I tell people who love me that if I take too long to reply, please feel free to message again, I'm just distractable, not ignoring them. I check in and make sure my behaviours are understood, so people don't think I'm just being an A-hole on purpose. I find the ways that work for me, instead of trying over and over to do what works for other. This for me, is "unmasking".
In short, "masking" is avoiding dealing with your ADHD and trying to pretend to be normal. And failing, repeatedly and predictably. "Unmasking" is dealing with your ADHD, and making the necessary adjustments and allowances needed to function in the world. Perhaps these are not the true technical definitions of these words, at least according to psychiatric texts, but it IS how they are used and understood among most current ADHDers.
@@Museofmemory All of this! Very well articulated. 👏👏👏
if you would spend more time in your shame spiral and less time writing a novella then the world would be a better place
So, I have to think actively and suppresa about how, what, when, how to say, do, behave, act from the minute I wake up so I'm not a burden on people.
That and the fact that every minute of my life is singularity focused on being the most optimal version of myself to barely be adequate enough to keep any job that can minimally feed me.
No wonder we're so anxious and depressed.
You are anxious and depressed because of your shitty personality. Please stop being a burden on people.
This is one of the situations where I'm seeing some "positivity"/"validation" writers/influencers are trying to drag people by their feet but lay people just don't buy it to the extend you'd expect. I can know how hard it is to not talk out loud what I think or tap my leg w/out seeing it as being oppressed in the workplace because I'd be the first to be annoyed as hell if someone else did that. Most people I've talked to who have these difficulties keep holding back because we are also the most thrown off by people who talk too much or move intensely cause it's so easy to lose focus. Even in ASD communities, where masking is abt much more than not doing annoying things, this is recognized, along with the fact that every single person on earth masks to an extend and wants others to mask to an extend.
There is value in recongizing that this is something we struggle with and makes the day to day even more energy consuming than normal (as I think that's all u meant in ur book?). There's even value in trying to be more congnizant of what it is we're hiding and adjusting and seeing if perhaps we could adjust our work/home/social lives accordingly to not have to do it so much. Personally I realized that as someone who was painfully "overstimulated" by other kids at school I made myself be very quiet and still so as to not be like them. Finding my "authentic self" meant that now when I am at home I've learnt to let go and move & talk as I want and I'm quite outwardly hyper. But I'm not really changing how I behave in front of others and not out of shame but out of basic respect. Most of the content creators I've seen think about "unmasking" in similar ways. It's only a certain subset of internet media which misses that nuance and context.
you're thrown off by people who talk too much? talk about the pot calling the kettle black. grow up
I wish I had “masked” my actions before I impulsively got up in front of a crowd, totally unprepared, to. from the hip, try to eulogize an old friend. Disaster!
Masking is the opposite of coping. You are just trying to hide your deficiencies instead of dealing with them.
Masking is extremely exhausting. Sometimes it’s necessary, sometimes it‘s not. I personally would prefer getting some accommodations at work and being able to keep a full-time job for more than 2 years without burning out instead of needing more than half of my day to recover from forcing myself to conform to all of the social norms.
I also think you are offended by someone using your book as reference. Maybe your anger is surpassing your empathy there.
Conforming 110% is not a good method to live a healthy and happy live, ADHD or not. Authenticity is. You „just“ have to know when and where and with whom.
If Andorra gets bored of their emblem as well, it will be the third country with that same flag!
Came here from the apology video thinking this would be the one where I find myself strongly disagreeing with you, only to find out it was yet another bullseye and that my autistic symptoms (that have been acknowledged by a psychiatrist to barely meet the diagnostic criteria, but not severe enough that the understaffed neuropsychiatric outpatient department would necessarily accept a referral for) are probably more prevalent than I've thought. The ADHD symptoms the articles mention as examples are indeed not things that I would necessarily count under masking, but rather typical behaviors that can and should be expected from an adult even if they have ADHD. The fact that it takes considerably more effort from ADHDers than neurotypicals is in my opinion definitely negative though, not just a thing that is. I have wondered why just ADHDers behavior and descriptions don't feel quite as familiar as autists, but I suppose that would be because because their symptoms are so commonly quite freely mixed with each other. Even by supposed professionals.
you missed the deadline to try out for the Victim Olympics. sorry
Dr Barkley, I appreciate all the work you have done, and hope that you take some constructive criticism.
Again you missed the mark. You can criticise the treatment of the topic by particular sources without dismissing the experience of ADHD people.
Maybe next time try to address the strongest case for a concept instead of the weakest.
No ADHD people can also be distractible, hyperactive at times. It does not mean that ADHD as a construct is invalid or useless. The same applies to masking.
So many things to say. The simplification of emotional regulation as suppressing outward behaviours in public is not useful. I can have terrible emotional regulation with very negative consequences and appear fine in public.
Imagine your argument being applied to same-sex couples. Oh they shouldn't show any public displays of affection because I don't want to see that and it will lead to negative consequences in their lives. It's a predictor of how many friendships they will have.
There's a lot of parallels of masking with coming out of the closet. The phenomenon in queer people is now widely documented, but it wasn't always so. Living authentically as an ADHD person does not have to mean behaving irresponsible or with lots of risk. The important thing, I think, is that we can feel accepted as we feel we are. A place where we do not have to mask AS MUCH is a sign of a place of acceptance.
You could show more compassion, more willingness to understand the experience of neurodivergent people, and it would benefit all of us and yourself.
This comes from an increasing desire to have an excuse for not taking responsibility for your behavior. I have ADHD and I try really hard. It's nice to get some validation and appreciation for the effort but it seems these people just want to let go and have everyone tolerate their behavior. As an addition, I think many people with ADHD will resonate with the observation that we don't have an "authentic self". My "authentic self" is impulsive and self-destructive. I don't want it to take over. Nothing good comes out of it.
This. Thank you. Trying to manage ourselves with this condition is hard work and some people just don’t want to do it because they think it’s somehow oppressive to “have” to. They don’t have to if they don’t want to. But they’re going to continue to struggle through and wonder why. Now that I have tools to manage my ADHD and I use them, I feel better day to day than I ever have because I can affect my outcomes instead of wondering why other people can and I can’t.
Uber Trash Cat, I'm not trying to validate you but it is very tempting to agree with your black pill take.
I`m a fan of Dr. Barkley, but this threw me off. The examples used here trivialize the depths of masking. Masking is much more complex and nuanced than Dr. Barkley lays it out to be here. This video insinuates that ADHDers are not capable of judging for themselves what is harmful to them. Masking produces shame. Masking compensates for you not being good enough. Masking is not about being polite or knowing how to socialize in different circomstances. Masking is about hiding who you are, because who you are is not accepted by society. Of course this will affect you negatively. This IS harmful, and it is not to be taken lightly. I strongly advice Dr. Barkley to talk to ADHDers and hear their stories about masking, and then re-evaluate his view on this.
Dr. Barkley feels so anti-empathetic, that it is impossible for me to listen to him. Does anyone share this view or is it just me? I’ve tried listening to him for many many times and it’s just impossible. 🤷🏻🤷🏻🤷🏻
‘Most people don’t care that you have ADHD, that care about you meeting your obligations.’
Ari Tuckman Ph.D, ‘Integrative Treatment for Adult ADHD’
If we didn’t have to, than ADHD wouldn’t be a problem and wouldn’t destroy lives. Take responsibility and treat your ADHD before it destroys you and harms others
The god father of ADHD, thank you Dr. Barkley
Agreed 100%
Good morning, great one! Hope your weather's better than our Dutch variety (66 degrees today, while only 2 days ago it was 84!😒)...
I was diagnosed with ADHD 25 years ago, took medication when I was younger but have not in over 15 years. While it can be tempting to be more authentic, I don't think trying to adapt to situations and use coping strategies make you less authentic. Its work no doubt, but I look at it like doing exercise. It gets easier over time when you have a good plan and follow it consistently. I don't think its authentic to really want something that's difficult, but tell yourself you'll never have it because you are hopelessly broken.
you tell yourself that you're hopelessly broken because that's what you are. How do I know? I read your comment.
Is this just ad hoc or is there more you just aren't saying?
I’ll post a 1200 word reply to complete my thought
I watched the follow up video first. I still don’t think this video does a good job distinguishing making from socially acceptable behavior. Masking was not properly defined in the video, I wonder if the article defined it. Masking is not making an effort to not pass gas in public. Masking to me is seeing personality traits enhanced with ADHD in negative way and putting a lot of effort into pretending they’re not there. Like believing I’m lazy (while in fact I have a cognitive dysfunction) and trying hard to make sure people don’t think this about me instead of having a conversation about it, using alternative ways to get stuff done, etc. I can’t look people in their eyes while I speak for my life. It’s much better to explain it briefly than to spend enormous amount of energy trying to look into their eyes (while not being able to finish sentences because of that).
lazy comment
Masking makes sense in the context of ASD, where, with enough observation, one may be capable of pretending to "get" social stuff more than one does. But if I could "mask" my ADHD, which is essentially a cognitive impairment, I wouldn't need an ADHD diagnosis in the first place lol.
I think I see your point of view and it makes sense. I would like to offer a slight counter-perspective, if I may.
I think it's very different from person to person, even with the same diagnosis...
For example, if one has trouble intuitively picking up on allistic social cues (even when one is paying attention) and has challenges with 'getting people' and understanding social norms... One possible symptom that can be a thing for some autistic people that isn't considered a part of the overlap of symptoms between ADHD and ASD... Well, how that person experiences masking will be different from mine, I would imagine.
If... we are using the word masking to mean 'hiding one's neurodivergent differences in an attempt to pass for normal and fit in' (and not the normal kind of social adaptation almost all people do almost all the time as a part of normal human social interactions), then that definition in my opinion would also include many ADHD'ers, or at least me if we can assume my assessment specialist was correct in her diagnosis of me.
I have above-average ability to pick up on social cues and body language and so on (if I'm paying attention)... and my problem usually isn't trying to understand what people expect as 'normal' behaviour. My problem is doing what I know. My 'masking' usually isn't trying to figure out what people expect...
It's sometimes near-constant self monitoring, conscious effort and subconscious responses and reactions to either hopefully not be "too much" or not be "not enough" in a given situation, sometimes to just not be "weird", sometimes feeling like I need to be constantly vigilant with myself, and often feeling like I need to hide a lot of myself, my thoughts and feelings to be accepted in many situations. To wear a 'mask'...
I just wanted to offer why I think I understand why the term is widely accepted for ADHD as well... While also trying to acknowledge that I agree that individual experiences can be different... and that even with this definition of masking that I used above, experiences of it will not be the same. Also, some people may just have less ability to mask as well as others.
Although a RUclipsr and not someone with Dr Barkley's background, I thought Jessica McCabe from 'HowtoADHD' did a pretty good video on this topic.
@@DLusby Jessica McCabe is a witch