Really THAT Unreliable!? Is The Citroen DS as Bad As The Internet Says It Is!?
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2023
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( www.alltfl.com/ ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our content, from news to videos and our podcasts! In this video, Tommy checks out one of the most iconic cars of the 20th Century, the Citroen DS, and dispels some of the most persistent myths about its reliability (or lack of it)!
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#citroen #DS #classic 
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You know that Citroën nailed it when you think that nearly 70 years after its launch, the DS still looks like it comes from the future...
And how many movies use this car in the background for 'future' scenes? The Taxi in 'Back To The Future' was a DS.
Thanks for watching.
Kevin Roberts - (The owner of this car.)
Refined, sophisticate, Creative Technology.
@@1KJRobertsBeautiful specimen. I did some work last year for a couple that had a white convertible in their in house garage, not sure if it was a true Chapron. Closed versions were very common here in the days but make heads turn in admiration today. Enjoy!
No it doesn't. Where do people get this BS from?
@@ottonormalverbrauch3794 I believe that the real cabriolet has 2 doors. If it has 4, then it's a conversion.
As a French I'm impressed to see the knowledge and perfect vision of the history of the DS by this US owner. 👏 Yet another proof that the true enthusiast has no borders.
Responsible Citroen owners drive at night so they won't run down property values in neighborhoods where they park.
Really?
Some of us aren't stupid. :) We have a bad reputation because of a lot of ignorant people, but this is a very different vehicle and different because they wanted it to be that way. No other OEM on the planet does that any longer. I LOVE this car. It's a masterpiece of engineering.
Absolutely agree
Pity that it takes Citroen 70 years to get to the American market .....
You can tell that this man LOVES the car. So much so that he sometimes needs to stop for air because one breath is not enough for him to express his passion for the vehicle.
SOME THINGS ABOUT CITROËN YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW
I grew up amongst a succession of DS sedans and recall my dad having no problems with reliability. The bodies tended to rust out very quickly, however. The manufacturer provided inlets for oil-spraying nozzles around the car, so in winter the most rust-prone areas could be protected, but nobody bothered to use them. (With equal alacrity, they designed a crank starter into the engine. On a freezing Canadian morning, faced with a dead battery, rather than call AAA my father retrieved the jack handle from the trunk and used it to crank start the engine like a Model T Ford.)
The DS’s velvety suspension was supplemented with the entire interior of the car, except the headliner, covered by a two-inch thick layer of foam rubber. Even the floor mats were made from a durable fabric that encapsulated this very thick layer of foam. The seats too were largely filled with foam rubber. All that foam, combined with the soft-riding oleo-pneumatic suspension, gave the occupant the sensation of, as they say, riding on a cloud.
On a curvy road you’d think a car this softly suspended would wallow and induce road-sickness, or at least be cumbersome to manage. But the suspension valving incorporated anti-roll, anti-dive, and anti-squat properties, meaning the car cornered flat and handled exceptionally well. Along with augmenting the car’s ride smoothness, all that foam rubber insulated the occupants from road and wind noise, and in our Canadian winters seemed to make the car cozier. (Canadian DS models came equipped with a high-capacity heating and ventilation system.)
Put all the above together and you have a driving experience that is utterly unique. Riding in a DS, at least for a kid, was like being transported in some futuristic Jules Verne time-bending device that spoiled me for anything in the years to come, including far more expensive cars.
The company ran out of money (not for the first time) during the design phase of the DS series, and could not build the flat-six engine intended for this car. Instead they had to make do with the previous model’s inline four-cylinder. Though it made under 100 hp in its original form, thanks to the car’s light weight and aerodynamic design, it gave 30 miles to the gallon at 70 mph, and was capable of a top speed exceeding 110 mph.
André Citroën, the founder of the company, was ahead of his time in the sense that he could spot a concept or product that was superior but never properly implemented. Rather than merely take note, Citroën capitalized on such novelties as the double-helix gear set, buying the patent then licensing its use and making his first fortune. A graduate of France’s famed Ecole Polytechnique, Citroën was able to adapt Henry Ford’s mass production concept to the production of munitions during WW1, and later to car manufacturing, eventually starting his own company.
Unlike Henry Ford, who brutally suppressed his employees’ attempt to build a union, Citroën was an enlightened magnate. He paid his workers well and provided maternity leave and other benefits that were generations ahead of their time. In the part of Paris where his factory once stood there is a small park named after him.
Under Citroën’s leadership, in the early 1930s the company produced the Traction Avant model, in its way as revolutionary as the DS21 in several ways: His factory in Paris was a model of efficient production that was emulated by all his European competitors. The Traction Avant model’s novel front wheel drive architecture gave it superior handling and comfort, to the point it was the get-away car of choice by French bank robbers. Later, when Paris was occupied by the Nazis, the Gestapo commandeered every Traction Avant they could find due to its superior speed and other qualities.
A bon vivant sans pareil, Citroën lived lavishly even by the standards of an industrialist. He was a gourmand and a womanizer, but what finally brought him down was his addiction to gambling. When the Depression struck in 1929, his company’s profits having been lost at the roulette table, Citroën eventually was forced to transfer ownership to Michelin. (Development cost of the Traction Avant also burdened the company beyond its means.)
A man of good taste to the end - he was to die in 1935 of stomach cancer - Citroën immortalized himself and his brand by funding the lighting of the Eiffel Tower. His combined engineering and aesthetic standards put him in the elite of auto makers - Ferrari, Maserati, Bugatti, Henry Royce, William Lyons who founded Jaguar, and a very few more - in that his product transcended its original purpose, as a transportation device, by providing its occupants with a sense of luxury and futuristic design that to this day impresses even those among us who are not car lovers.
The original post posed the question of whether the DS series was reliable, and the answer is a qualified yes. The car was well built and reliable, but it was not built to last. In their quest for efficient manufacturing and superior fuel economy, the car’s designers incorporated hard plastics throughout the interior. They do not age well and were disappointing even when the car was new. The switchgear also was mediocre. A look under the aluminum hood reveals a gigantic engine bay, crammed full of power plant, the spare tire, and what seem to be miles of high-pressure hydraulic lines. It is this car’s rubber and plastic components, because of their use in every part of the car’s functioning, that make owning this car in modern times contingent on eventually replacing everything that flexes.
After Citroën pulled out of America in the mid-1970s (for them, the 5-mph bumper requirement was the last straw), you could buy a DS for next to nothing. As late as the 1980s and maybe later there was an American source of spare parts. Its founder bought up Citroën parts worldwide and sold them at reasonable prices.
But that was 40 years ago. Now, I suspect, any DS still running has been restored - not by a speculator who seeks to profit from it, but by a genuine enthusiast. They will be discerning about what lucky person is the next owner of their DS.
What a great write up. Lot of stuff I didn't know.
Good info. My 1979 DS20 had 3 faults. It was a vacuum cleaner on dirt/gravel roads, it overheated on the highway on Saskatchewan summer days and couldn't defrost the windshield enough to drive at -40.
BUT yes it did 40 mi/Canadian gallon at 70 mi/hr and 35 mi/gal towing a 2000lb trailer. (used 4th gear once downhill in 6000 miles one summer). The video suggested the clutch was a weak point but we had no problem in 80,000 miles with a lot of trailer towing in the BC mountains. (starting off the front position on a ferry up a steep ramp was a challenge with the automatic clutch engaging fully at 800rpm and 104 hp not developed until 5000)
In Europe, many Citroën dealerships were poorly qualified to service the DS properly - especially in the early years.
The cars that survived that time have it better now. Not only are they almost exclusively driven by enthusiasts now - they are usually serviced and repaired by a small number of DS specialists who know much better what they are doing.
@johntechwriter7097 Love it, that there are still admirers on the other continent! I have all produced Citroën's in my collection! But the Citroën DS stays the most modern one in its looks. After Peugeot took over, Citroën models went down! Ugly cars where produced and when Citroën made a successful model, after a few years it disappeared from the Citroën list; got rebadged and appeared as a more expensive Peugeot! For instance look what happened to the C1, it is was no longer for sale as a Citroën but got re-badged as a Peugeot 108 and stayed on for years.... I stopped collecting after the CX... They became too plastic...all these plastic fronts, horrible. But to get back to the DS I have got a berline "palas", a "decouvrable" and a "break familiale"! Did you know that you could order a traction avant with hydro-pneumatic rear suspension? My daily drive has this feature! By the way: you can buy new parts for 'old Citroën's' at The 2CV Mehari Factory in Belgium! These parts are not second hand or refurbished, but absolutely brand new! Anyway, still loved your interesting history of Citroën! Stay tuned😊
i aint readin ALLAT
As a French guy who already knew most of the info that was given in this video, and without being a particular fan of this model, I still watched all of it just to listen to this gentleman talk about his car. A real pleasure. Thank you.
As an admirer from across the English Channel (or the French Channel too I suppose 🙂) I've always fancied owning and driving a Citroen DS.
ha this is best compliment ever
"As a French guy" and "without being a particular fan of this model". For me (as a Dutch guy / Pay Bas), that is a kind of shocking.
Exactement pareil ! I could have made exactly the same comment: as French people, we're all familiar with the DS. And yet I also watched it all the way to the end. And to be honest, I didn't know all the details that were presented. Very Very interesting...
@@daphunman Well, Dutch people were the first ones to acknowledge the historical value of iconic Citroën cars, when many French people (like myself, nowadays a proud owner of a 1996 Xantia 1.8i SW since 2008) were still envisioning Citroën as the brand for slow paced and awkward grandpas.
When the DS was presented, an author wrote in an article „This is not a car from the future. It is from today. All the others are from yesterday.“ Well said.
But this is still better: "The DS is not the car of the future, nor the car of the past. It is the car of today!"
DS technology especially steering and brakes should never have been sidelined. It’s a huge shame that Tesla have not employed the systems. Two independent electric pumps would solve perceived safety issues.
Because of the characteristics of the suspension, the rear axle will actually lift up under acceleration, rather than compress from the vehicle's rearward shifting weight.
A couple more informations from a Frenchman who learnt driving on my parent's 1973 DS23 and still owns it...
First of all, thanks for this great video. One of the first American ones where all that is said is 95% right ! :-)
A small remark : your DS is really beautifully clean. You take care of it really well 🙂
However, your doors don't seem to be well adjusted. The 3 vertical gaps between the doors and the body parts should have the same width.
The air intake for the engine is not the horizontal slit under the boot cover. The air intake is under the car (you can see it if you lift it). It is 2 big massive holes that go directly under the leatherette protection that is under the spare tyre. You can open the leatherette with a zipper to increase the amount of air that goes in the the summer (it also has an electric fan that starts automatically if the car is overheating, like in modern cars).
One more thing concerning the rear brakes. The rear brakes are drum brakes that are powered by the hydraulic system. They are powered in a feedback loop with the oil pressure coming from the independent suspension from each wheel. If you get into the car and lift it up, if you press on the brakes, the rear wheel will still turn because there will be no weight on them. This is done so that the rear wheel don't lock up to prevent you from spinning around if you brake hard while turning (as the weight is transferred from the back to the front, the rear wheel brakes will lower their grip on the wheels). If you could brake so hard as to lift the rear wheels off the road, they would then turn freely as they would not be braked anymore. The braking force applied to the wheels is proportional to the weight they bear.
Also, you didn't mention that if you completely lose the hydraulic pressure, you can still brake the front wheels with the special parking brake that is the left-most pedal that operates on the FRONT discs by using cables. This foot-operated "handbreak" has a little switch on the bottom of the release handle. In its normal operating position, when you press on the pedal, the pedal stays where it is and you can only release the brake with the handle.
However, when you operate the little switch at the level of the handle, you prevent the pedal brake from engaging, meaning that you can use it as a standard brake to operate the FRONT brakes, should your hydraulic system go belly up. You can still brake the car and drive back home or to your garage in limp moe.
Concerning the "climate" controls, they are quite intuitive if you look at the markings. You figured out the bottom one (hotter to the left, cooler to the right... they simply operate flaps in the airbox behind to get what you want). The higher one on the left is for having air directed on the feet or on the windscreen (triangle pointing down on the left, triangle pointing up on the right). The higher one on the right is the amount of air input. The four dashes above the command - - - - are not the same size... They are smaller on the right and larger on the left, meaning that if you put the lever on the left, you get more (cool or warm) air into the cabin, and if you put it on the right, you can close the air intake from the engine bay.
Note that the dashboard vents have 2 vents : a smaller one on top is where the heated air would come from the engine bay (controlled by the levers we just talked about above). The big square air vents are only connected to outside air that is not circulated around the engine. They are quite intuitive to operate.
There is also a potentiometer under the steering wheel to control the brightness of the dashboard at night.
And yes, the right-most button is defrost (if your car is equipped with rear heated windscreen. You can see it if it has horizontal heating conductors through it). It is quite effective.
At minute 31 you say you don't know how the car keeps "horizontal". It does not. However, it maintains the same body height respective to all wheels. For this, there is a small lever at the level of each wheel. If the wheel is too low, the lever will point low and will decrease the hydropneumatic pressure on the corresponding wheel. So however you load the car (front, rear, left, right) the body height will be maintained thanks to these little levers (that are mechanical sensors that implement a feedback loop, like a thermostat would start your heater if the temperature in your room was too low, but here, they are analogic and not binary like a thermostat). It is also thanks to these sensors that the car will not dive when you brake... When the front dampers compress, the car would dive, but this lowers the rear levers / sensors that would reduce the pressure on the wheel arm so the rear wheels will go down too. So when a DS brakes sharply, the whole car goes down horizontally (it doesn't dive).
Ah, concerning the headlights, you mention that the swivel left to right, but you don't mention that they also swivel up and down so that the beams stay parallel to the road if the front of the car dives due to a vertical acceleration cause by engaging into a slope. So not only will the headlights allow the drive to look into bends, but if you engage at speed into a slope, the front wheels will go up into the body and.. the headlight will also go up. The light beams are always parallel to the road, independently of the body attitude.
I also wonder if you have the standard car mats (they don't look the same as in France). They are quite special. They are very thick underneath and made of latex with conical holes that are designed to absorb the road noise. If they are standard mats you bought in a car shop, you may want to source original ones to reduce the road noise when driving.
Concerning the suspension, you are not supposed to drive it in lower or higher setting, except to change your wheels or get out of a bad situation (snow, etc). In fact, the suspension has a maximum displacement (read "comfort") when the lever is set in the middle. On Min 33.50, you say there are 3 different positions but these are operating positions. in fac, there are 5 🙂
You demonstrated the top one where the car goes completely up. When you are there, you lose your suspension as the wheels are forced at their maximum extension, so they can't go up or down anymore. This is how you can do the 3 wheels trick : no suspensions, if the center of gravity is inside the triangle, the car will not flip to its rear missing (left or right) wheel. It's simple physics.
Then, there are three markings as well seen at 34'. The lower one is the comfort operating position. The two higher ones are operating position for rough roads where you would like a little more clearance but if you still want suspension. It would be the preferred positions on a dirt road. The further away you go from the center, the more suspension you lose. So the higher of the three will be the less comfortable, the one slightly under will mean that the car will be slightly lower but more comfortable and the bottom one is the standard one.
And there is the 5th position down there that you can access if you push the lever to the right while pushing to the complete bottom. When you do this, the car flattens down to the ground and (as with top position) you lose again the suspension because the wheels are completely "up" (meaning that the body is down). This is the position where the wheels go up when you put the truss under the car. You are not supposed to drive in either the top or the bottom position because without suspension, you risk damaging the car chassis if you run at speed on bumps on an uneven road.
If you want to have a good laugh, check out the "Buying this weird 1969 Citroen ID 19 was a total disaster. I am so DUMB!" youtube video. Indeed, at 17"46, Dumb puts it in the lower position in the hope to enjoy the smooth ride he was expecting from the DS... The video should have been renamed "Dumb and Dumber buy a 1969 Citroen ID". Fortunately, the mechanic is the more intelligent of the two and despite not opening the user manual or trying to read about the car before trying to understand it, he makes out that he may be on something valuable and had an open mind on it, leading to better other videos from his Car Wizard youtube channel. In French, we call this feeding pigs with jam. Made me think a lot of the great "Taliban Workout At Gym In Kabul’s Presidential Palace" youtube video...
The horn indeed has 2 settings : when you press it lightly it is a "nice" one-tone "city horn" and when you press harder, you engage the "highway" horn, which is a really unpleasant discordant two-tone horn, tuned to curdle the blood of truck drivers who would cut in front of you. (we see your ears cringe when you go into the two-tone mode, showing that it works as designed :-)
At 36'20, you say that the controls are on the driving column in a modern way even though this dates back to 1972. But 1972 was 2 years before DS stopped being made! The controls you have in front of you came out on the DS in 1955, not 1972 !!! If you look at what cars were looking like in 1955, you will see how modern this is.
You also didn't mention that DS were some of the best really cars winning :
Monte-Carlo in 1959,
Corsica in 1961
1000 lakes in 1962
Corsica in 1963
Monte-Carlo in 1966
Portugal in 1969
Morocco in 1969, 1970, 1971
Wembley-Munich in 1974
Hope that the little details I added helped.
Great video that I really enjoyed !!!
That is one detailed comment, sad to see that it didnt get much attention
I read it all, and I’m not a car guy, but enjoyed the in depth extra knowledge he has. 👍
Thanks for the detailed history.
You know some stuff
Awesome comment - thanks for the tidbits about the DS!
Being from Europe, this video was simply fantastic ! We're pretty used to seeing DS'es kind of regularly here (The Netherlands) and I knew about a lot of its special features but I learned a LOT more from this video. I love how detailed it is and the absolutely very best feature is Kevin because he shows so much love for, and knowledge about the DS _and_ is able to talk about it understandable, enthusiastically and entertainingly ! To top it off, he knows how to pronounce aluminium correctly so this guy scores on all points possible :)
I gotta tell ya, the pronunciation of 'aluminium' & 'Citroen' really strike a nerve. I pronounce it the British way, (because it amuses me). While in France, I heard 3 different pronunciations of Citroen. It seems, our tongue gives away our terroir.
Thanks for watching/commenting!
@@1KJRoberts That last point, is because (like Moët) Citroën is a name not from France, but from the Netherlands. So in both cases, the final letter is pronounced, not silent as it would be in French. And the ën ending in Dutch is pronounced to rhyme with "hen" in English. (Quite different from any French way of saying an "en" ending). One thing everyone agrees on is that the C is pronounced as an S !
@@Gottenhimfella Well, being Dutch and almost fluent in French, there is some difference in pronounciation. Like "slice" has two slightly different "s-es".
His pronunciation of aluminum caught me off balance.
He doesn't know how to pronounce and you don't know how to spell Aluminum!!!! At least in the USA the only country that matters!!!!!!
I lived in Germany for awhile as a kid and a neighbour down the street had a DS. Every morning it was like watching a camel getting to its feet as the suspension pumped the car up to ride height. BTW, this is the best DS video I have seen with an owner that not only loves his car, but actually understands how it works so he can explain it to others.
Amen to that. What a joy to hear someone who knows what he's talking about, and shows it! Love the Citroen, I'd have another in a NY minute if I could find one with A/C, because it's too dang hot here in Texas without it.
I am such an owner too! I have been driving ID and DS since 1972 and now own a DS 23 IE Pallas from 1974, still running perfectly! And I know a lot about these cars!
I managed a dealership that sold Cits in the early-1970s. The cars were quirky and fascinating, but VERY reliable and innovative. For instance, early DS cars with a/c had an evaporator pipe that was routed AROUND the car, not placed in front of the radiator! The main problem with Cits was that there were very few dealerships, and fewer certified technicians. We had customers who drove literally hundreds of miles to bring their cars to us, and those owners were almost all fastidious about maintenance. And they were LOYAL; when the word got out that the DS wasn't coming to the US any longer and the CX was not even being considered, we were inundated with owners who wanted a new one. I scoured the whole county and bouoght every one I could, but we still fell short. If Citroen had concentrated on the sedans and not the SM, they would have been a lot better off (very few DS owners were interested in the SM). I still have a DS23 Pallas that I imported myself as soon as I could, and it performs beautifully as my daily driver.
The lack of mechanics experienced with the model leads to inept repairs and poor reliability. It's not the design, but the rarity and the resulting difficulty of getting proper care. Scott over at Cold War Motors has a couple of SMs and they're just SO unusual in so many ways.
As the Parts Man at one of the last franchised Citroën dealerships, in the 1980's, I can echo your comments. Extremely reliable and comfortable cars unless Bubba the mechanic in East Armpit, Arkansas gets ahold of it!
Enjoyed the video and your comments. It was a shame they didn't sell the more affordable spaceship style CX in the US. It did not get the engine they originally designed it for though, and apart from the style and ride would have under-whelmed against the competition. I had one of those, also the smaller GS, then a BX and a Xantia. By 1976 at the BX stage, Citroen had become assimilated into the huge PSA group and basically told 'no more weird design nonsense' however they were still sneaking some of it in up until the XM in 1989 even though it was on a Peugeot floor plan.
I am an European and i love the Citreon Cars. But one Point which is their strong point and their achilles Heel in one is the Hydropneumatik System. It needs good Mantainance and the Mastercylinder and Reservoirs needs a refurbishment or replacement after 15-20 years. In Europe thats the normal lifespan of a Car 8-15 years. So it is not a great Problem. Sadly thats one of the reason why not so many DS are still around and why some gained the reputation to be unreliable. Personally i have seen two Hydropneumatics fail catastrophical on older Citroens. (One DS in front of me and one CX sitting inside, the CX was 16 year old and not mantained as a students car, not mine).
Properly mantained, which means good (expensive) replacement Parts, the DS is as good as a modern Car from the 90's. Especially with the comfort feature which make mantainance easy: Rust Problems in the Fenders? Take them off and clean them.
That's exactly what I was thinking! Citroen, and I'm sure Peugeot and possibly Renault, didn't have a service network for the USA to keep their cars running reliably. My favourite Citroens are later DS, the SM, the CX and BX, etc. I consider it damned unforgivable that neither were ever offered here in the USA.
This has to be the best DS video in RUclipsLand. So interesting and factually presented. The Citroen suspension was so smooth that Rolls-Royce used the same system on their 1965 Silver Shadow. They produced it under licence from Citroen. Tells you how special the DS was, --light-years ahead of the competition. Great cars. If only people could buy them new today.
Wow, I never knew that, thanks! I had an ID19, and though I've never ridden in a Rolls some of my friends back then had, and they told me my car was smoother and quieter than the Rolls. I didn't believe them, thought it was just flattery, but that car was indeed smooth and quiet, and a great ride. I got asked if my ID19 was an automatic, because the shifting was undetectable (unless I screwed it up,) but it was just a 4sp column shift that made no sound, it just slid into gear. Loved that car, I'd have another in a NY minute!
The one thing I really like about the suspension is that the geometry of the wheels does not alter according to weight. The wheels do not splay outward under load nor tuck in when light keeping tyre footprint constant, essential for good road holding and braking.
Absolutely.
As a car mechanic myself, I am indeed shocked how this car is complex and simple at the same time. Hydropneumatic suspension may sound complicated and difficult to maintain and repair but as I see any mechanic can do it. Not a car but an engineering masterpiece.
The adage - "If ain't broke don't fix it" really did apply to D's. Yes any 'competent' mechanic could work on them, but the order and method of working really needed to be adhered to. And for that you really needed to consult a factory repair manual before taking a wrench to the beast. A case in point - before doing anything with the hydraulic system pressure needs to be released - and putting the car in its lowest suspension setting only releases pressure in the suspension circuits. The pressure regulator has a release valve - but the component is attached to bottom side of engine block, and if you don't know it is there you never find it:)
I thought I heard "oleo pneumatic",, just saying😮
@thegardensentinel and that was just one of the small quirks of this video.
Hydraulic is with any liquid. And the original french is "hydropneumatique"
It may be some kind of an engineering masterpiece but it's a stylist's nightmare!
@@lancasterritzyescargotdine2602 From a styling viewpoint you really are in a minority - but that is how you feel. Folks who design cars for a living, OTOH, have given it very high marks. And was voted as one of the best auto designs of the past 100 years, again by other auto designers, not users or the general public. As to being 'some kind of an engineering masterpiece' - it was not 'some kind' - it was an engineering tour-de-force in concept, exectution and manufacturing, even by todays standards. Elon Musk asked, some years back, a goup of auto engineers which was the most innovative - his Tesla Model S or a 1956 DS19. He was told there was no contest. The DS was far, far more innovative. No one has dupicated the brake system design, the steering system or its suspension capablilites. Some have tried - and either failed or dropped due to expense of manufacturing.
In 1956, the French had the coolest tech: Citroen DS, trains rolling at 100 mph, Caravelle jet airliner and Alouette helicopteres and soon the superb Mirages. They were really ahead of the game.
Well done Kevin, I had a boss who had a DS and he was just as passionate 🎉about his car as you are. Really enjoyed your enthusiastic and informative presentation. Driving as DS or SM is on my bucket list
And then only a couple years later, the concorde.
They suck lol
@@atomic4650well not really, it was a British concept originally and was mostly British with Rolls Royce engines. France developed the airframe of course.
The engine was actually developed by SNECMA and RR@@ronnieharford3326
A huge Thank You to Kevin for sharing his passion for this beautiful car. He's a remarkable storyteller, and it's been a pleasure listening to him!
And I can’t imagine him dressed any other way.
... "for this beautiful car"? where? WHERE? If I stay here any longer looking for "beautiful cars" I'm going to get SICK and SPEEEEEWWWWWW !
@@lancasterritzyescargotdine2602, You are not "going to get sick"--you are already sick between the ears.
@@lancasterritzyescargotdine2602...It
is you're responsibility to avoid
pain. !!! So , just go elsewhere...
we all here would appreciate it. !!
BYE. BYE....
@@michaelcelani8325 Well, all here might just as well put your heads back in the sand, like any other ostrich would do. Do you know a quicker, easier way to avoid (Citroen) pain?
As a DS owner who does all his own work on it, the car is just complex to work on, not hard, but things like changing brake discs or adjusting handbrake involved a lot of work to get to those items.. the hydraulics are straightforward , but yes a car with hydraulic suspension is more complicated than a spring suspension car.
We had DS's from the sixties until 1973. You cannot explain how comfortable it is to those who did not experience it.
it feels like you're on a pillow on a waterbed on a cotton road
The first 10 minutes driving a ds you will never want to drive one again . After the 10 minutes you would not want to drive anything else.
I never got to experience the DS, but if it was anything like the GS, I know what you mean. We had a GS when I was growing up in England; tremendously smooth ride with tremendously powerful brakes. Same basic systems as on the DS, just in a smaller car.
Such an interesting car with an equally interesting owner. I feel like I would be entertained listening to Kevin read my homeowner's insurance policy to me.
Thanks!
I've been told I have a face for radio. :>)
The owner is definitely educated either through school and college or the school of hard knocks.
@@1KJRobertsme too.
Absolutely!
Me too! honest person
That man loves his car and is incredibly knowledgeable and well spoken and knows everything about that cool ride. How interesting it would be to spend an afternoon learning from that man and experiencing that car. Thank you tfl for sharing a piece of that with us.
That pronunciation of the names was actually quite good. This gentleman is very knowledgeable and the car is very well maintained for its age. A really nice video, my congratulations to all the team.
Kevin is the man! He loves sharing his wonderful car. I love seeing him at the local car shows. Thanks to TFL for covering such a great car and great guy!
Never seen a guy more proud of his car.
@@smokeonthewater5287 That poor soul! And to think he could have had a 1950 Nash instead!
@@lancasterritzyescargotdine2602How nice of you to talk down on a man who is clearly passionate about his car, just because you don't happen to like it.
@@gergoantal1066 You may have missed the light-hearted irony there: I think this is a compliment to Kevin and his lovely car!
@boulderbarry...The location here
with Kevin looks like Haystack Mtn
in the background. ( Neva Rd. ?)
north of Boulder east of Route 36...
AKA. Foothills Hgwy.
....played golf At Haystack Golf Course for 32 years..
Truly wonderful presentation of one of the most iconic cars on the planet. As a young lad of 12 (over 60 years ago!), a neighbor had one of these and I was is awe of this car then and still am today. I learned so much about the DS in 49 minutes due to the enthusiastic, articulate and highly knowledgeable owner. The overall styling hasn't aged one bit - just beautiful!
My Dad worked with a gentleman from New Zealand who owned one of these. This was in the late 1960s in New Jersey. I remember him demonstrating how he could change a tire without having to use a jack. I was also floored by just how smooth the ride was.
You hit the nail on the head. In the early 70s I went up to the Canadian border to retrieve one of those that had the green fluid leaking. No one up there for 200 miles would work on it so I brought it back to Boston.
My opinion on Citroën has forever been changed. Man, did I get an education.
I'm right there with you! I always thought they were kind of dumb little cars, but that looks like it's a blast to drive! Thanks for learnin on me :)
That's what we all get for believing in Clarkson and any dumb chünt that only likes the cars that they'd sticker on their bedroom wall.
This is why I'm not watching it! Becoming brainwashed is not my cup of tea. My grandfather had one os these, and it was odd, strange, and it was broken for the most part of its live. When it finally went to the scrap, he was actually relieved and happier.
So, no. It was not a revolutionary car. It was a, like most French cars, utterly useless and completely unworthy of the money it cost.
@@pedrodaniellopesferreira2916 That is the irony...the Japanese copied many ideas but made them SO SO SO much better.
@mikefoehr235 agree! Nothing beats a toyota. I have had one for years and got as much attention as my refrigerator. The guy who bought from me was amazed with the amount of dust and spider webs inside the engine compartment. We only opened it to put some washer fluid, that was it.
Probably the best advertisement for how advanced the suspension was at the time. It pretty much saved charles de gaulle from assassination .
I was just about to mention the DS saved De Gaulle from an attempted assassination.
Certainly the most amazing and innovative vehicle ever concieved. If they were offered for sale today in the exact configuration with minor updates - they would take the world by storm the second time around.
It has no re-circulation of the interior air, as he says. It´s merely a volume control for the air intake at the front.
The button he can´t remember is for the rear window heater.
Growing up, the minister at our church bought one of these. My dad saw the price sticker and stopped putting money in the collection plate
🤣
Being ahead of time was something never fully appreciated. I was working in a R&D lab and we had a company Pallas version. Safest car I ever drove and an experience never to forget.
When I served in the USAF back in the late '60s, I had a Citroen ID19 which I drove all through Europe. It was by far the most comfortable car I've ever owned; mine had a 4-speed column shifter & a lot of people thought it was an automatic because it shifted so smoothly. The interior was all lined in foam rubber under the carpeting, so it was quiet as a Rolls.
If I didn't live in N. Texas, where it gets hotter than Hades in the summer, I'd love to have a DS21 (but I'd have the 5-speed shifter!) One thing that didn't get mentioned in this video: it's the only car I've ever had where you could have the driver's side window down & not get blown out of the car by the wind! That's because the front of the car is wider than the rear, so the airflow is outside the window opening. I used to cruise at 140kph on the autobahns, it'd do that all day long!
Well done video! I've only seen these cars on the road, at car shows, or in films, but not heard of all the quirky yet innovative engineering. Really enjoyed watching this fascinating description of the function.
Nearly 70 years since the DS was introduced, the car still looks modern and futuristic.
i think it looks like a 50 year old car
Citroën DS manufactured and marketed by Citroën from 1955 to 1975
@@slopedarmoryeah like there's anything out there with the same age which has even slightly similar looks... Maybe worth mentioning the Ferrari Daytona due to covered headlights? And still the Daytona came out 10 years later... The Aerodynamics here are crazy here
@silvestrostileitalia there are also no modern cars with slightly similar looks, it doesnt look modern at all.
@@linasma235 What did they follow it up with, the 1769 Cugnot? That would have been an improvement right there.
For those who want to know! The lever to adjust the height of the suspension is connected with mechanical levers to hight-correctors (in german they are called Höhenkorrektoren) for the ride height. These 2 Correctors are intalled and get theis input from a movable connectin to the anti-roll-bar. And because the hydraulic system is one, citroen engeniers connected the brakes on the back with the supsension on the back to get more brake power when loaded in the back. Citroen did some weird but well tought out french mechanical wizardry on thier big Cars for a long time.
They still did recently
Fantastic video - thank you for making it! I’ve wanted one of these for over 40 years. Owned a GS Club (the same green as this gorgeous DS) for several years - loved it dearly!
Kevin seems to be a really nice person with a sense of humour.About 50 years ago I owned a Citroen Ami,it was great fun and so terrific to drive,with so much character.
My experience of the Citroen DS19 and DS20 was that they eere WAY AHEAD of their time!! They were VERY reliable, very safe. Extremely comfortable in terms of interior appointment and ride.
The DS is such an interesting car. Beautiful color combo too.
I know all about these cars but watched this because I’m a DS fan. This was very enjoyable and everything was explained clearly. Great video and beautiful example of the DS.
My grandfather had a '66 DS. We loved that car and I remember many weekend trips around northern California in that French work of art. The DS was smooth, comfortable, and handled the back roads well. I loved the 4-on-the-tree and the adjustable ride height.
What a beautiful car and what a nice proud owner. Wish him and his unique car many more years of driving pleasure.
This car saved French president Charles de Gaulle's life from an ambush in 1962.
About 20 bullets hit the car, but even with two punctured tires it managed to take it's occupants to safety.
That's an interesting 'fun fact' I'm sure very few people know
@@1crazypj I think even the French mostly forgot this fact. Sad but true, we mostly only remember the ones that got killed... 🤷♂ C'est la vie !
1958 here. The first time I saw this car and The XKE I fell in love with that style. Kinda space age. Remember My Favoraite Martians' ship?
My Dad had a DS21 in the 70's. This car had the ability to go very fast during long trips on highways. I remember daddy saying "this car has an incredibily roadholding, it's a pure pleasure to drive it"
1968 DS21s would hold the road nicely mile after mile at 125 mi/hr. Calgary to Vancouver in 8 hours.
Brilliant video. There are two other quite distinctive features. The front of the DS is larger that the back. It helps making the car more aerodynamic. The distance in between the 2 front wheels is 20cm wider than the distance in between the back wheels. The other one is that the front light are not only turning, they also stay constantly horizontal and focused on the road even on bumpy roads. The station wagon version was super popular for ambulances due to the safety on any condition, the space offers at the back and the comfort. And for filming horse races, often the cameras were mounted on DS as the suspension is so effective that the image is of much better quality. I own a Citroen SM, sort of DS coupe launched in 1970, with more innovations including the DIRAVI steering system and a Maserati V6 engine. Jay Leno did a good video about the one he owns.
I believe all front wheel drive cars nowadays have a wider front track. That was pioneered by the Citroen Traction Avant along with FWD.
The DS is THE most important and spectacularly ahead of time vehicle EVER
I’m a dyed in the wool ford guy but this car is just amazing and futuristic…
Great to see on the channel
In 1955 this thing was a spaceship
Inboards vented disc brakes
Hemi head
Hydraulic suspension
Power steering
Aerodynamic
Just incredible for 1955
Yes, indeed.
Life is too short for tight underwear, cheap wine or ordinary cars.
I was nervous about getting this car but was smitten by all the beauty & engineering. Her name is, Babette.
Thanks for watching.
@@1KJRoberts the only downside is that being so far ahead of the competition, it’s hard to get the average joe repairman to maintain it !
More just scared of the futuristic technology
@@1KJRobertsYou should look into Panhard , this is where most of the innovation came from. Citroen owned a controlling stake in Panhard and killed off the Panhard 24 in late 67 , the 24 was a far better car in many ways but people just don't know about it.
The 24 is a very very cool car but I’m trying to imagine what the Panhard has in common with the DS other than being FWD. The 24 was developed in the early 60s well after the DS’s debut. And mechanically it’s not that far afield of the Dyna /PL 17 that preceded it. Also a very cool car. It’s hard, though, to see the redicalness of a ‘56 DS’s systems in a ‘56 Panhard. This is not intended to denigrate the Panhard in any way, particularly the 24. We can probably agree it was Citroen’s fault there wasn’t a 4 door 24 since they didn’t want it competing with Citroen models and that affected sales in France where everything from a 2cv to a Renault R4 had 4 doors.
Again, no disrespect intended.
*radicalness. Probably not a word either
I like the inboard disk-brake. They probably wear out much better than we're currently running... as in, the disk and calipers are not exposed to road dirt/salt
Very approachable, informative and enjoyable video on this iconic Citroen (et bravo Tommy, ta prononciation est parfaite!!!!). So glad you chose (so far) to talk about the 2cv and the DS.... it is refreshing on a north American Chanel. Your enthusiasm is genuine and it shows through and through. Thank you!
French guy here .
Sugar for my ears. A US fan of Citroen, replying to a candid guy asking intelligent questions..
What a frog could ask for more ?😉
A Gauloise and a rich burgundy?
How reliable the DS (or any Citroen) really depends on the maintenance, and how well your mechanics understand them. I have relatives in France that have had some type of DS for decades, and they’re very reliable and amazing to drive and ride in. But the majority of auto mechanics understand them. I live in California and there are lots of Citroen specialists here, but there are lots of places in the US where owning a Citroen would be a nightmare.
Hey there, I'm the Kevin in this video. I wholly, agree with your comment. BTW: I bought this car from Paul Heilig and get the LHM from Rudy. My mechanic, Ted Ax, in Denver, owns a '69 DS. It's pretty important to have a mechanic who owns this car if you intend to use it as a daily driver as I do.
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the reply, Kevin! I would imagine a DS would be great in the Colorado winter, you’ll see them a lot in the winter in France in the Alps. I’m a mechanic as well, but my expertise is Italian cars. If you go to Europe or Scandinavia you’ll see Citroen’s all over, old and new. But in France they’re considered to be a source of French pride, so any mechanic who hasn’t learned how to work on them is considered to be an amateur. The real enemy of Citroen’s is shoddy maintenance and rust. The hydraulics really scare lots of mechanics in the US, but the system is actually not that complicated when you learn it, and it’s usually extremely reliable for a long, long time if you maintain it. Thankfully I don’t own one with a semi-automatic transmission, I don’t see the point of those, and they’re a nightmare to fix. I did have a 1972 Volkswagen Super Beetle with a semi-automatic transmission and it was infuriating, especially since everything else about the car was a joy. I soon swapped it out for a manual, and it made driving so much better. That car lasted 13 years and 387,000 miles with normal maintenance (it was always a California car so rust wasn’t an issue, especially since I lived in the desert.
Here in France DS & other classic Citroen cars attract attention wherever they go. If I had the money i'd have a DS 21/23 Safari as the family wagon.
Tommy handled this Citroen autist in overalls very well. Cool car but absolute junk in the USA.
@@phatgringo2.0 I'm sorry? Of all shitboxes you make in the US?
Very interesting video! I had heard that the DS had some unconventional features, but this was very well detailed here. The clutch-less Auto was a Honda feature of the early 70s Civics, I learned on one - quite nifty! The braking system is very similar to the one that Rolls-Royce licensed and customised from Citroen design for the Silver Shadow. Great job!!
Great video! I have always loved this car, Kevin is a fantastic spokesman. I would love to have a funky old car like this, but it's already hard enough to get parts for my 1967 Corvair. Interesting that Kevin says Citroen originally wanted an air-cooled flat 6, much like a Corvair. And the engine-differential-transmission package is also Corvair-like. Oddball car lovers, unite!
Citroen DS is a car that apears in any best car list of all times.
There was no other car made ever, before and after, that would present such a leap in technology as this one.
Try the Panhard 24!
@@happysnapper3676
Never heard of it before 😁
Went to see it at Jay Leno garage. A polished Citrien Ami.
Leaf springs, drum breaks etc...
Vs
Disks all round
Hydropneumatic suspension
Adjustable ride height
Power windows
Turning lights
A limo that goes 200kph + while sporty Alfa Rome Julias of the period goes up tu 180kph
That was the leap.
Thanks for pointing out the Panhard 👍
@@kmet2000 The Ami had the citroen 2cv engine a flat 2 cylinder air cooled engine 602 cc many were returned in the UK as drivers didnt understand why they were overheating in traffic they didnt realise that they had to keep the engine revs high to aid the air cooling by the fan on the front of the crankshaft.
@@kmet2000 the DS didn't come with Disks all round, only up front.
I had Citroen DX90 circa 1980 in 1990-96, that was much more advanced. Still considering it as the best and innovative car I’ve ever had. Unfortunately it’s just another example when better design was eliminated by weaker (design wise) competitors (Peugeot, in this case). Think about Apple, Concord, etc.
I interviewed the head of Citroën Canada back in the 1970's. What did them in in North America were the new "safety" regulations coming into effect, not reliability issues. While other makers (like MG) could slap a big chunk of rubber onto the front and rear bumpers, Citroën would have to basically re-design the cars to meet height and lighting requirements. We had a good selection of Citroën repair shops in Quebec. But like many other Euro brands, their products were not designed for rust-belt winter conditions, and aftermarket parts were often only available from dealers at $$$$!!.
thank you for your words. Exactly. French cars and specially Citroens were not very well welcome outside of europe. French ingenieers from this time period were making too much shadows in many domains to other countries ... and maybe US
I was lucky to have had this model with the semi auto gearbox and can honestly say that it is the best and most comfortable car that I have ever driven !
If Citroen had a car like this right now, I WOULD BUY IT right now...!!! The suspension of these cars was nothing short than FABULOUS...!!!
What a wonderful introduction to one of the all-time automotive engineering masterpieces. I have had experience traveling in several of these. I remember the large foam rubber pads under the floor carpets. Fun fact, the original name "DS" is pronounced in French as "Deesse" means "Goddess" which is what these cars are known as. The slightly de-contented later ID model is pronounced in French as "Idee" (EE-day) which is French for "idea."
Other fun fact: in 1970 they introduced to GS pronounced in French as "Géesse" meaning "Giantess".
This rural car owner is visually a fascinating owner of this vehicle. He looks like a farmer from the Canadian or American mid-west, salt of the earth and a mainstay of mid-western lore.
And he owns a Citroën.
“And Bob’s your uncle.”
In 1968 in Toronto I had a ride in this car and it was the smoothest car I’ve ever been in!
I have owned two DS cars, an SM and a CX. Not one of them let me down after many thousands of miles with each.
I remember this kid starting out not to long ago and he has turned into an excellent interviewer. And you can just feel the love of technology and mechanics of the owner of the DS.
I also respect him for his genuine interest and respect for both the car and owner, and not rushing the interview. Most enjoyable review.
That's about the third dashboard they had. The turning headlights and covers are European ones he retrofitted. They weren't allowed at that time in the US. Some modern cars have turning LED headlights.
Yes, this one doesn't have the bathroom scale indicators for speed. Perhaps not allowed in the US either?
It's been a pleasure playing this footage, not expected to find an owner so expert of his car. Thanks for creating such valuable stuff.
The DS is one of the great cars of last century. I owned an ID 19 when I was a student. It was extraordinary as a long distance express. Taking a load of friends from Dunedin at the bottom of the South Island in NZ to Auckland 1500km in 2 days including the 8 hr ferry trip. I later owned 2 Citroen GS models, a fabulous 70’s car.
Great on the gravel backroads of NZ too I’m sure 😊
I had both an ID19 and DS21, they were great cars, powerful brakes, fast cruising and fabulous ride were memorable features. The ID19 in particular had great fuel economy, better than 30mpg at 70mph.
Driving on three wheels was a great party trick. Reliability wasnt so much of a problem as the availability of parts in my part of the world. On occasions the cars were off the roads for months awaiting parts.
Great video guys. I have a 1974 D Special 4 speed manual in Australia. It was the subject of a 3 wheel ‘Party Tricks’ demo. ‘Hubnut ‘video when he visited Australia. One difference in my car is that I have 2 fan switches. One operates the LH side of the car and the other the RH side of the car. Good Hydraulique trans. demo. Did not know too much about these.
This is the best video I’ve ever wanted to see explaining the intricacies of the Citroen DS. Well done guys.
I’ll probably never ever get to ride in one, but appreciate the ingenuity and quirks… and you’ve really detailed it.
I have a feeling Kevin could have talked about that car another two hours, and I would have gladly listened. Thank you for the wonderful walk around and drive. I thoroughly enjoyed that. Great questions and fantastic answers. Just subscribed.
This was an excellent episode. It's longer than I normally like to commit to on RUclips but it was worth it. I learned so much about the DS. I've seen a few at car meets here in LA and next time I see one, I'll have more of an appreciation.
In the LA area if you want to see a gathering of just about all models (maybe all) that were sold or brought into the US, look for the 'Best of France and Italy' car show held every year at Woodley Park (Van Nuys) the first weekend of November.
The spheres should be turned to remove with suspension setting at it's LOWEST point with the least amount of pressure in the system and almost all the LHM [Liquide Hydraulique Minérale - not mechanical] back in the reservoir. LHM also stands for "Lord Have Mercy" in English whenever I take my Citroens out. Fabulous video and fantastic car. Thank you.
the spheres on the suspension cylinders should be loosened when you still have pressure in the system, the Suspension Cylinders aren't set up to have a lot of turning force applied to them, especially when there is no pressure in the system and this way the Cylinders jam themselves up in their mounts and you don't risk damaging them or the Hydraulic lines that go to them, after crackign them loose you will have to put the suspension to the lowest position of course so that you don't get 180 bars of LHM spraying all over the place.
@@aaaabababa Was NEVER stupid enough to even try loosening with pressure! Might have tried it IF it wasn't coming loose long before beginning to twist a line!
@@alro2434 never had to deal with stuck spheres i see.
We in Montreal Canada saw many Citroen ds sedans. We appreciated the the dynamics of the pneumatic suspension and overall driving comfort. Todays explanation was outstanding. Thank you.
I knew there was a few interesting things about this car, but I had no idea.
This gentlemen is extremely well versed, and makes the tour that much more interesting.
Worth the time to watch, I very much enjoyed it, this car seems to be made on another planet.
No cookie cutter here.
Kevin is a gem! Great video on a fantastic piece of history. 👍
Damn, now I can't get the Pink Panther theme out of my head.
Both the DS and 2CV models of Citroen I owned were reliable and required no more maintenance than any other cars I've owned. The DS was an absolute joy to drive while the quirkiness and low weight of the "Snail" 2CV, made it a fun little car to take to the beach. This video is very informative and brings back such nice driving memories ! Thank you
What a lovely example.
My dad had a later version of one of these - we replaced the keeled bonet (hood) and used the old one to go sledging. Jacking up the suspension is like taking off in a futuristic flying car (when youre a kid with an active imagination). The swively lights are cool too.
even today when i take a citroen in the morning it feels like i´m going to take off and i drive them for more than 50 years
I grew up with this car. My dad brought one over from France in mid 60s and then brought another one over in early 70s. It was very difficult to find a mechanic but luckily there was a French mechanic in White Plains, NY. The Citroen hated northeast winters. My dad drove it like the WWII pilot he was - very fast on curvy New England roads. People marveled at the hydraulics. Still one of the most beautiful cars ever made! Neither one of you pronounced it correctly sorry)
How do you pronounce it, mate?
@@sebastianwurtz5294 ci-tro-eh
@@ajaxa9 That´s wrong since you actually have to pronounce the n, because of the the dots over the ë. Citroën. But hey, 99.99% of non french speakers get it wrong.
@@sebastianwurtz5294 [si.tʁɔ.ɛn de.ɛs])
sit ren
As the owner of a C5 (2005)..... the suspension, pioneered on the Goddess, is outstanding. Hydropneumatic Citroens forever!
I have a C5 too, the later X7 model, thankfully one with hydrpneumatic, not steel springs - the last car Citroën made with that system. Comfy but not as soft as the DS.
@@PedroConejo1939 i was told that the C´s not one had hydropneumatic suspenction ,but mr.peter bunny i´m not saying there wasn´t ,only was told that they stoped making it allthough any citroen has more confort than any other regular car the saxo compared with the 106 it´s worlds apart i had a saxo to work it´s still parked outside allthough they gave me a corolla hybrid 1.8L gasoline, now i receive more money for the same work i´m already retired for 11 years ,now i pass invoices for my work, it seems young people dont know how to work with a 3 year degree that gave them the same career as my 5 year degree
@@RUfromthe40s You were told wrong.
@@RUfromthe40s G'day from Australia, My C5 X7 DoubleTurbo V6 2.7 has indeed got hydropneumatics though with 6 computers running every aspect of it, it's known as Hydractive 3+ variation was for cars with top engines on the Citroën C5 and in 2005 was standard on the Citroën C6. Hydractive 3+ systems contain additional spheres that can be engaged and disengaged via a Sport button, resulting in a firmer ride.
The Hydractive 3 hydraulic suspension has 2 automatic modes:
Motorway position (lowering by 15 mm of the vehicle height above 110 km/h)
Poor road surface position (raising by 13 mm of the vehicle height below 70 km/h)
The BHI of the Hydractive 3 suspension calculates the optimum vehicle height, using the following information:
Vehicle speed
Front and rear vehicle heights
The 3+ Hydractive hydraulic suspension has 3 automatic modes:
Motorway position (lowering by 15 mm of the vehicle height above 110 km/h)
Poor road surface position (raising by 13 mm of the vehicle height below 70 km/h)
Comfort or dynamic suspension (variation of suspension firmness)
The BHI of the 3+ Hydractive suspension calculates the optimum vehicle height, using the following information:
Vehicle speed
Front and rear vehicle heights
Rotation speed of steering wheel
Angle of rake of steering wheel
Vehicle's longitudinal acceleration
Vehicle's lateral acceleration
Speed of suspension travel
Movement of the accelerator throttle.
great video. I had the DS 23 and the DS23 Safari [estate cars] wonderful cars. Very comfortable ride. My wife used to describe it like a sailing galleon, so smoooth at high speed cruising.
My kids loved it as we had a particular road with speed bumps near us and I was 'encouraged' to drive at speed over the bumps much to their delight
this guy is such a delight! great find! and interview. This car deserves this coverage!
I followed a CX (the later model) over an ordinary road on a Yamaha 900 motorcycle. It was night time, so could see cars coming the other way but I could barely keep up. The CX was considerably bigger and not much more powerful but incredibly capable of maintaining high speeds.
In addition to those 'innovations' listed in the video - here are some other features of the cars most are not aware of:
1) Dual circuit braking system. Front brakes get pressure from main hydraulic system. Rear brakes are pressurized by the rear suspension. Without going into a long technical description what the system does is vary rear brake pressure depending on load on the rear of car. The more weight the greater the rear braking force. And the system automatically compensates for weigh shift under hard braking.
2) Center line steering geometry. The actual pivot point for the front wheels is in the exact center of the front tires. Along with the power steering design allows the cars to panic stop from typical highway speeds in a virtually straight line with the driver's hands off the steering wheel.
3) Due the long wheel base (some 123") the rear track is narrower (by some 10") than the front. This was done to improve handling.
4) Power steering. The steering is rack and pinion and has virtually no center play. IOW just tap the steering wheel and you will get a 'twitch' at the wheels. Cause more than a bit of confusion with drivers of American cars. The cleaver part was that the internal piston of the rack that bears on the control rods has some 750 to 1000 psi of force holding it in position. The result is that front wheels, basically, can only be turned by input from the driver. External road conditions, pot holes/uneven surface/flat tires, have virtually no affect on steering angle. Caused more than a few reviewers of the cars to complained about a of 'lack of feel' in the steering. It was that 'lack of feel' that save De Gualls life.
5) A lot surmised that the HP hydraulic pump robbed that small displacement engine of needed power. What was not realized that with a car in decent condition the HP pump only cycles about 2 seconds every 20-40 seconds in normal driving.
Will just add the ID 21 SW we own is capable of carrying some 2000 lbs (have done it) and there is no sagging in the rear. Just takes a bit longer for the suspension to compensate. And because of the braking set up in stopping you only notice that it takes a bit more pressure on the the brake controller.
Rears are pressurized by the rear suspension on the cheaper models without the brake 'button', the ID's. This has a movable bias adjustment whose position is controlled by the rear suspension load and has full hydraulic pump pressure available to both front & rear brakes.
@@alro2434 - Not quite true - Up to the 70 model year all cars had the 'brake button'. Depending on model the brake activated the adjustable or non adjustable controller. It was the 70 model year that the D Special (DV), D Super (DT) and DS20 (DX) were given a 'brake pedal'. Both the 'trolley' and non 'trolley' (simpler one) isolated the front brake circuit from the rear. Rear circuit in both cases got pressure from the rear suspension. The difference between the two was that the 'trolley' unit was adjustable for fore/aft pressure distribution. In all models (til 70) had a brake accumulator to provide emergency pressure in the case if system pressure dropped below around 1100 psi (flow control valve). After 70 the mentioned models got emergency pressure from the front suspension system. In both cases it was the front circuit only that got that reserve pressure. Made sense as the front brakes provide the preponderance of stopping ability. That split design was there to prevent the rear wheels causing the car to swerve in panic situations. Fun fact - use of the front suspension as a pressure reserve was the same thing Cit used with base models of the ID sans power steering up to 62 IIRC. Know as my parents had one. The brakes used a 'normal' master cylinder with hydraulic 'switch' that allowed full system pressure into the front circuits if the brake pedal went to the floor for any reason - and did so with out any control. IOW all at once. My mother referred to them as "Jesus Brakes" as basically one yelled out "Jesus Christ" when it happened. Well at least my mother did.
One of my favourite features of the one I used to own was the ability of the back of the front seats to be lowered to be completely flat with the rear seat. So handy for impromptu overnight stays. Very comfortable sleep in, too.!! 😀😀
Excellent interview and enthusiastic owner! Perhaps the best and the most thorough automobile-video I've ever seen. Great thanks!
Merci beaucoup!
Thanks for watching.
I have a feeling that all reputation of being unreliable isn't due to citroen itself, but based on Bentley and rolls Royce which licensed this tech from citroen but made it hell to deal with and thus the unreliable reputation came. They used the DS in African safaris successfully, the car was built like a tank
I am in the UK and I have one, daily driver too. That is the secret to reliability- use it. It was designed to be an everyday car and that is how it should be seen today. I tow a caravan with mine- been touring round France many times. I think he meant to say put the suspension on the lowest setting to change spheres and slacken the depressurise screw, that's what I do. Brilliant video Well done all.
Must agree My ds is second car But used every weekend without fail No good sitting around for too long just like any car
Nothing unique to this model. Everyone as this point should k now that it's bad for any car to just sit.
I had 2 of these in rhodesia in the 1970s.
A DS 21 was one of the first civilian vehicles to hit a TM 46 soviet anti vehicle land mine in the Zambezi Valley in the early 70s.
Front wheel detonation and all passengers shaken but not injured
I remember when i was a kid and my father received the car of his own dad who passed away. It was the economical version of he DS : the ID. I remember 2 things : the fact we could watch the rear blinkers work from the inside, and the fact long distanced could make us sick... The Citroen suspension let you feel like you are on a boat. That's the dark side of the exceptional mechanic. My fathers dream was the SM : the sporty evolution of the DS. It's said the SM is also Daniel Craigs favorite...
The predecessor was the Traction Avant (front wheel drive).
It was built from the 1930s and was very stodgy and old fashioned looking.
Then in 1955 the world was introduced to a space ship!!
The convertible is absolutely beautiful and cost much more.
VERY rare!!😀
I drove one in the mid 1960s for a day.
It was great. It had a 4 on the "tree" with a clutch pedal. It had the same leather seats that were very comfortable.
The toughest thing was getting used to the brake button. It had a throw of almost nothing. you had only to touch it to stop.
You forgot the best of all - the DS all had Michelin "X" radial tires from the start (1955).
Good job thanks.
Of course the Traction wasn't stodgy. It was beautiful and innovative too. Just 20 years before.
It would have been nice if they had inserted a picture in the video of the TA just to show how radical the DS was when it was first introduced.
The best review I have seen of this fantastic car The in depth explanation by Kevin was truly fascinating Thanks to all Love the car color as well Cheers
I enjoyed that. I have owned an XM and two Visas and loved them. I watched this and didn't think I would learn anything new but I was really wrong, I learnt a lot and it was amazing. My regret is I didn't get one in the seventies or eighties when they were more affordable. I read somewhere that when they first came out new they were more expensive than a Jaguar car. I really liked the owners enthusiasm and the interviewers enjoyment which came off really well. Thankyou both.
This car came to the world much ahead of its time. The technology which Citroen brought with this car secretly to the market was unique to best of my knowledge.
Arguably the most interesting video you guys have put out, well done👍
Nice work. Good in-depth demonstration of features.
A guy in my village owned one of these when I was a kid. It was such a funky design. He was a bit quirky with his taste of cars. He built his own car which was square and looked like an ww1 german armoured car.. flat/angled body panels. He also built a go-cart driven by a car starter motor and car battery LOL
Interesting that he identifies the US market for Citroens as architects and doctors, etc. We didn't have one when I was a kid growing up in the 1960s, but my father -- who was an engineer -- always spoke admiringly of them.
Yep, many were educated oddballs.
Hi. You will certainly not put it into high position before removing the sphere. This would cause a giant mess and need the rest of your bottle of red wine while cleaning it up. The system must be without any pressure instead, which is done on the pressure modulator, sitting deep down on the left side of the engine.
The unknown pushbutton is for the heated rear window.
I think he was talking about removing the wheel :-)
My favorite comments about this vehicle. Citroen has solved problems other manufacturers didn't know existed. It feels just the same at 60 mph as at 100 except the road seems a bit narrower.
Well there is an old but true saying - the passenger side of a car is going some 20+mph faster and 5 feet closer to the side of the road than the drivers side.
This is really good! Explained with so much respect for the designers (inventors). Thank you very much Kevin!
Merci beaucoup!
@@1KJRoberts...Do you live in
Longmont or Gunbarrel. ?
One of my all time favorite cars and what amazing condition on this one. Really appreciate the owner and his passion for this amazing car. Thanks for doing this video!