What's next is ultra summoning. It is used by summoning an ultra monster-monsters that are half monsters half traps . When they are summoned they have a monster effect. When they are set as a trap card and activated they let you summon as many ultra monsters from your deck as possible , they are uneffected by your opponent's card effects , do double damage , and when they inflict damage you win the *match*.
+Stratos 420 I was thinking more along the lines of monsters that get their effects and summon straight from the deck, if a certain condition is met on the field. Then again, I don't know how you would play them in real life.
my only problem with pendulums is them going to the extra deck. If they just died then it'd be risk-reward cause you put everything on the field, but, with them just going to extra, there's no risk.
actually pends still carry a high risk becuase once you get warning or bottomless even tt then you can easily destroy your opponent even then they are heavily reliant on scales so they are much easier to counter than ba or necroz
Pendulums as a mechanic is honestly fine. Setting scales is a -2 and barfing your field onto your hand with no other plays or without establishing a strong monster (like say an Xyz) is a terrible play. However, the support for it is absolutely dumb. Wavering Eyes and Performapal Wizard are utterly utterly crazy.
+Haku infinite Feather duster would make it so pendulum decks can't use heavy storm to destroy their own pendulums if they mess up their scale/need to put a new scale down. For example, Qlis can destroy their scales *and* all the opponent's backrow, then set Scout in a zone and search the other scale. At least Harpie's Feather Duster would make it so your opponent would have to help you.
+Haku infinite heavy storm is basically pendulum support, because if they replace the scales, the ones that they blew up are just more monsters to summon. Every good pendulum deck would play heavy and feather duster and probably even benefit more from it.
Just make the extra deck a 15 card only and no more so say if a pendulum was destroyed and you had 15 cards in the extra deck already they go to the grave instead of the extra deck
+Aeolianshredhead And that's fine, because Qli's are not the problem, it's the Performages/pals who not only abuse the Pendulum mechanic, but also the stupid powerful rank 4 pool.
+treemax Oh shit this makes sense you'd have to keep track what goes in your extra deck BUT this will kill Ignites. and obvious reasons they wont do this.
I seriously hate pendulum, it just doesn't fit in, by the way there ain't no pendulum scale 0 which means I cant pendulum summon a level 1 monster(I felt sorry for level one decks)
+Axixe im not saying im pro here but I only play pendulums because to me there a fun thing to play around with. we all have something that makes the game worth playing for us sometimes its better to go back to its root. Also I mean azneyes has a point before pds the game was broken its just gonna take time to adapt. So in the end we shouldn't hate pendulums but you do have the right to hate those with no creativity and power creepers. Like I said I play pendulums only for the fun and "entertainment duels". also one more point to add pds aren't as op as people believe because for gods sake a simple bottomless can stop them
Create a no pendulum format. The mechanic is easily the most polarizing in the history of yugioh. So at least give us an alternate format where we don't have to deal with that cancer.
Xyz are fair. They were bad at first since they were a new format. Pendulums are too overpowered when multiple re summoning can happen where you can make xyz and synchros on a turn-to-turn basis. And this is the arguement stated in the video.
xKarpfen You use two or more monsters that meet certain requirements to special summon a card from your extra deck. It's not 100% alike but in those regards they are similar. You can at least see how Syncro and XYZ derived from fusion.
***** Yeah but still. If the top tier decks are pendulum decks then the meta game will be hell. The whole pendulum mechanic just doesn't seem fair when you have a bunch of cards that basically remove the whole "prep stage" of a pendulum summon.
+Brian Mendez "pendulums are a fun part of the game" yeah summoning 4 level 7 monsters is one turn is so fun. While I'm here trying to get 2 monsters on the field so I could summon my dark magician. Pendulum summoning is straight gay.
+Michael Sanchez You should try incorporating new mechanics into your deck. Maybe dark magician would finally be a good deck if it used pendulums. Tribute summoning was NEVER good in yugioh. Even in goat format no one played double tribute monsters.
I know it's an old video, but I think it's still relevant. About a year later, it's becoming clear that pendulum is a mechanic that cannot be properly balanced. These cards you talked about, in some form or another HAD to be banned or limited, as well as a few newer ones. I think I've come up with why. Pendulums, in theory, have one weakness, and that is that they are INCONSISTENT. Without searching pendulums, you have to have at least 2 different pendulums with different names. The insane advantage you get is locked behind the need to run extra draw power, leaving less space for other cards in your combo. However, when you bring in cards like in this video, it gives too much advantage. A lot of people would disagree, saying "oh, pendulum isn't tier zero anymore; it's balanced," but allow me to explain. Many people would say that pendulums are a minus 2 in cost, so you've got to summon at least 3 monsters before things get busted, and that spending cards from your hand so quickly can leave you vulnerable, or at least it gives you less bluffing power. However, these days, that is simply not the case. Most decks will pendulum summon from the extra deck, not the hand. Even if they do summon from the hand, it's likely that they will have some effect to search or draw a few cards. Pendulums are also OVERLOADED. They do too much. They have too much variety. They have a monster effect, a spell effect, and a pendulum scale. Having 2 different effects isn't always a bad thing, but this kind of versatility is too much. I know a lot of them are normal monsters, meaning their pendulum effect is all they have, but that can be even worse when combined with cards like diagusto emeral. And let's look at the previous generations and why pendulum summoning is more broken than synchro and xyz. Synchro and xyz monsters were just single inherent summons. Cost is 2 monsters or more, in order to summon one stronger monster. Regardless of what that monster does, the summon itself is just two for one. Now, look at pendulums. The cost is technically 2 monsters, but they stick around, so that you can do it over and over again. It's like if all synchro monsters special summoned the materials used during your next standby phase so that you could do it again. Or it would be like xyz materials being special summoned automatically when detached. Even when you get past the cost, you're summoning up to 5 monsters. Even if it was capped at a 2 for 2, it's a little stronger than synchro or xyz. Since there is no cap on pendulums, they're very strong when used. So, they have to be make inconsistent; if they are consistent, they are objectively stronger than synchro or xyz monsters ever were, especially because you can "pay the cost" of putting two monsters on the scales, and end up with 2-3 synchro or xyz monsters by the time you enter your battle phase. That is why pendulum is broken, and why I will not be convinced otherwise.
I stopped playing when the XYZ monsters came out because the game got too ridiculous. Numerous crazy special summoning in each turn, formulaic decks, extremely expensive cards. There were 4-5 decks that everyone played and no other could math up against them. I had a Crystal beast deck which I loved and was really fun but since the XYZ(and a bit during the Synchro time) it got useless. I have nothing to say about the Pendulum era because I know nothign about it.Dont even know how the game is played anymore. Ive been itching to start playing again but game doesnt seem fun anymore which is really sad cause I i had been playing this game for like 10 years.
Ayreonaut 16 yeah I hear u, no offense, but unlike u I started playing, well more like I never really stopped just got lazy, xyz came out "oooooohhhhh, what's that?" pendulum: "WTF?!? WHAT IS THIS SHIT!?!" that's really all u missed
+jorge jimenez FUCK YOU AND YOUR OPINION! HOW COULD YOU BE SO BLIND? WHAT GOES AROUND COMES BACK AROUND IN TIME. YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT, YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT, ABOUT ME!! YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT, SHIT, SHIT, DON'T KNOW A GOD DAMN THING ABOUT ME!
i hate pendulum. i mean shit they special summon 5 monsters then xyz or syncro 2-3 monsters in one turn -.- . i mean xyz and syncro was one thing but pendulum is a whole different level. i dont mind xyz or syncro thats fine but pendulum cmon what kinda monster dont even go to the graveyard? just to special summon from extra deck.. yeah the system is totally fucked up. its hard to even beat a normal monster pendulum deck.
+Brian Mendez shut up u got pendulum thats why. Shadolls can go to the graveyard period. i dont see shaddolls after they been sent to the graveyars go to the extra deck just to be special summoned multiple times. so shut up i beaten pendulum before. its tricky to just beat a normal one. i beaten shaddols before so stfu. pendulum is broken. its pretty easy to get ur beaten monsterz in tbe extra deck and not GRAVEYARD. then special summon all 5 synchro and xyz 3 monsters. yeah LOL if u thiNK THATS OK ur an idiot.
I feel like pendulums were designed with an "all or nothing" design in mind but the inconsistency of the early sets made them overtune them. If they added some kind of overload mechanic to hurt the next turn I feel like they could compensate for the free advantage they get now. For example: "If you pendulum summon X monsters in one turn destroy your scale." Or make it so you can't special summon the turn after you pendulum summon.
That's what i was thinking as well, and it seems the most logical sense if konami goes in a route to change the mechanic, problem is the anime would have to be changed slightly to compensate for it. But I'm sure you could do that in a simple plot twist.
I wish the Yugioh anime would get dubbed by anyone except 4kids. I hate it I wish they would sell it to adult swim or something and then it would get re-dubbed with better voice acting
How about the mechanic of the pendulum scale Overloading where when you pendulum summon 5 monsters, the pendulum scale is immediately destroyed and sent to the graveyard. I don't agree that when you set a scale the monsters get sent to the extra deck, that imo puts the mechanic over the edge because you don't even summon them yet you can summon them next turn (so balanced)
+Bullpup Shotty I like this one better than just not allowing destroyed monsters to go to the extra deck... That would take a lot of their potential away. Decks like Igknights that rely on filling the extra deck would be completely useless. Letting it be a one-time 5 monster summon with potential recover if you topdeck the right cards is a lot more fair, since you could respond to the second wave (unlike now, you can only really try to prevent it, once it's there you are usually fucked) and it will be less consistent. Even the most broken hands could only give you like 10-15 monsters, and the game has been capable of that for a while now. Plus there would be a reason to summon less than a full field.
+Bullpup Shotty i think summoning sickness would be a bit better where pend summoned monsters cant attack the turn they are pend summoned or u cant go into battle phase if u pend summon more then 3 monsters
+Bullpup Shotty These are all great suggestions. I have played Qliphorts and now no one wants to play against me because it's overpowered. I stopped and now use Blackwing, but now my friends went out and bought Igknight's and Qli's, so now I don't want to play because I know I will lose. Konami really needs to get a handle on the pendelums. They have no drawbacks or negative effects to balance them.
+Devin McLaughlin sure they are tough, but I think this is what is called growing pains. you have to uproot the old, and plant the new in order to thrive as a business. it is just basic economics.
I think pendulums do to the game the equivalent of what effect monsters did when they were launched. They basically make the older monsters obsolete. It's pretty rare to see normal monsters nowadays, with the exceptions of decks like Red-Eyes and PSYFrames. Soon enough, it will be rare to see non-pendulum monsters. Is that a good or a bad thing? I don't really know.
a good ruling would be, if pendulum monster are destroyed by battle or card effects (in the monstet zone), they go to graveyard, so u nerf pendelum. but don't complete destroy them. so they would be meta but not extremly op, and mirror force would be again a good card
pendulums are fine as if they don't really do much on their own except for majespecters and qlis they are heavily reliant on xyzs for power pushes and if you break there scales after they get all their stuff in the extra you get an auto win
+Haku infinite u lost with BA against qli? xD sry but this is way too funny, ba got the perfect match up... fire lake. carma cut, raigeki break. and even barbar 4 burn dmg! wtf, but sry. i think u r not the best player in this game ^^ and there are only BA and maybe shaddoll who hadn't an out to towers... (if they play star eater, the got an out)
+Haku infinite Maybe you have had different experiences but it's a well known fact that BA have a good matchup against qlis. Doesn't mean they'll win every time but they have an advantage. And how the fuck do BA make star eater? Sounds like you only tested against some weird BA decks.
+Haku infinite the support is fine you don't really need to change how you deal with them the only broken support is pendulum call and thats it wavering eyes is necessary for pends becuase of how it completely supports the mechanic while it gives your opponent a chance to kill your set up
So many people saying they need to go to the grave normally. That is not a solution. If pendulum monsters were to go to the grave like any other card, the whole pendulum mechanic would suck. It would actually be really bad. It would see no play, and it wouldn't top. I mean, you would need to sacrifice room for a pendulum engine, and if nothing happens to your scale, it's still an inherent minus 2 just going for it, and it gets worse if anything happens to them. And not only that, but then if you go for any kind of play, you go further minus unless you are that one broken archetype. But rogue pendulum decks would be awful. Every meta deck is good because they can summon a lot without losing any kind of advantage, sometimes even creating advantage and strong board. If konami made them going to the extra, it is because they know their game really well, and they know that it wouldn't have been good enough to sell if they did. On the other hand, going back to the extra, makes them way too strong. And there is no middle ground. Well, I have one idea. They would go to the extra, to not make them terrible, but you can only summon like one monster that is face up in the extra deck per turn or something like that. It wouldn't make them bad, but it would nerf them. They would still be "resistant" to mass destruction, but wouldn't be as spammable. For the moment it's the best that I can see for the game. But making them go to the grave is just stupid.
i think it would have been fine if the pendulum monsters when they are destroyed or tributed would go to the extra deck. but after they as 're pendulum summoned if they would leave the field they are sent to the grave instead.
+Quintin Benton na it would have been fine if they were to be like destroyied or something but like limit the summoning cap. ya know? Thats the broke part about it
Bottomless to 3 plz Koonami. At least give us that. Yeah it's gonna suck with 3 bottomless just ready to fuck up your plays but I'd rather have that then to constantly get swarmed by pendulums.
+Isaac Ladron de Guevara Morales The horn of heaven ruling isn't applicable. "When your opponent would special *A* monster." The ruling is OCG exclusive I believe.
Pendulum monsters summoned from the extra deck should be banished when they leave the field, so you can't keep pendulum summoning the same monsters over and over again.
what about making the extra deck 15 card limit apply to pendulum monsters and when there are 15 monsters in the extra deck pendulums go to the grave, so they have less space for there real extra deck monsters
People said the same thing about the xyz mechanic, then the synchro mechanic before that. And, they continued to play the game. There's a small segment of yugioh players who sit around complaining about yugioh but still play the game. Which I think is the source of these "_______ ruined yugioh"
without getting rid of the good rebudle that pendulums have the way they should rule them is if a card gives specific instructions for a card after removal from field then that's where they go. for example blackship says send it to the grave, this would normally send it to the extra deck, but it should still send it to the grave. however cards like mirror force that just say destroy but don't give instructions afterwards then game mechanics would say where to go sending them to the extra deck face up
If Pendulums get destroyed while in a pendulum zone, then they should just go to the grave. That's my opinion on how to nerf, but but immediately destroy, the Pendulum mechanic.
I agree I think if it should be the other way around though. If they are destroyed in the pendulum zone I think they could go to the extra deck, then every other time they should go to the grave.
Heard a lot about how pendulums have messed up the game by friends who play yugioh. Love how you compared it to other competitive games it gave me a much better understanding of what they're all about.
I remember in 5Ds where Meklords were Anti-Synchro. I would do that. There needs to be a way to counter XYZ and Pendulum monsters. What I would do to counter XYZ is what Photon Dragon does, detach material. Applying that idea to Pendulums, something that removes faceup cards in the extra deck, maybe even a way to block extra deck summons. Also, while there are ways to counter Pendulums right now, like Macro Cosmos or Stardust Warrior, those dont help when you go second. There needs to be a hard counter that I can play going second that will allow me to either get rid of the Pendulum monsters or prevent them from doing it in the first place.
heres how you fix pendulums. the extra deck can only have 15 cards max, that way if you want your cards to go back to the extra deck, then you have to have room for it. you can only play one pendulum card per turn, only summoning or placing one pendulum at a time. change the scale, you can only summon a monster that matches your scale, so you have a 5 and an 8 scale? you can special one level 8 and one level 5 monster.
it would ruin the mechanic, it would mean there wouldnt be entire decks devoted to them, you would only have a handful, if you set up your scale you woul still be special summoning 5 monsters every turn, thats incredably broken
+NightcoreCentral Cyber Dragon introduced a format based off of OTKing with Cyber Twin Dragon and Limiter. Personally, I loved that fornat, but many people have pretty valid reasons for disliking it. Before hand, the normal summon was a very important to the games general strategy. Even Chaos monsters had some level of summoning requirements(though many would argue that the Chaos monsters broke the game which they did until they were ban/limited). Cyber Dragon allowed players to play a lot more recklessly and then drop another monster if anything went south. Power creep was introduced yet again. Maji and Nekorz are better contemporary examples because of how drastically better they are then most other deck in the fornat.
+NightcoreCentral melodious.... MELODIOUS LMAO Majispecters are weak and once resources are gone, they're done. Nekroz aren't hard, tbh. you need to go back to DRuler format, and then tell me those decks broken.
The ultimate way to fix Infinity Errata: "You can also xyz summon this card using a cyber nova after it has conducted an attack and inflicts damage to your opponent during main phase 2" would completely fix the abusive use of the card and there will be so many people that wont bother to even use it.
+Bullpup Shotty Yuo want to fix Infinity? all you need to do is make Konami write this: Forbidden and limited list effective as of 1st December 2015 newly Forbidden Tellarknight Ptolemaeus.... Done.... now that broken thing can only be summoned in his Deck and we'd be fine...
What about if they edited the summoning rules for pendulums to be you can either do from your hand OR your extra deck (not both). sure this leaves the thing if your hand is empty or your boss monster out you just choose extra deck. but it helps prevent summoning back whats already destroyed + all the stuff you searched for. you have to choose one or the other.
They should have made it to where the pendulums ONLY go to the extra deck when destroyed in the pendulum zones. When they're destroyed or sent from anywhere else, they should go to the grave. It would make people have to decide "hey should I really push for game now, or wait". Because the fact that a mirror force, torrential, doesnt really prevent the inevitable, thats what makes pendulums broken.
I'm vehemently opposed to pendulum monsters. The other day I got lucky and broke my opponents pendulum deck with my rogue and maybe a little old fashioned Inferno Tempest deck. I really savored the moment. Konomi doesn't necessarily need to change the rules to fix the problem. All they need to do is add a ton, ton of anti-pendulum cards. Cards somewhat akin to Royal Decree but that prevent pendulum summoning. Then pendulum decks become kind of like chain burn decks. They might work in a single sometimes, but they soon become unplayable after siding.
I agree. The fact that you can summon a bunch of monsters (even if level higher than 7) might be ok, but the fact that they come back after a turn is just over powered. I think that only one pendulum card (used as spell) should be activated per turn AND that Pendulums go to extra deck face up and can't be special summoned anymore (because this way there would be some balance and the opponent wouldn't summon 30 monsters per turn because he'd have fear to have them destroyed), they should be easy to summon but impossible to revive, balancing it all
+Brian Mendez majispectors are not even that consistent but regardless they get annoying right as you have stated all over this comment section they are oped well performa pals are even more consistent than them by a lot qlis are very strong even if they sorta can be stopped igknights are very explosive and all the support has yet to be released really with only 4pendelum decks and majispectors performapals and qlis being very strong in the game igknights still finding potential that is what I call an abused mechanic.
+kaeltxwz I love that Idea.. Could I also include Macro Comos, and Dimensional fissure as well.. Those cards would be awesome too go against those pesky pendulum monsters..
mrjuniornl l Let be honest destroying pendulum cards is like putting a problem on hold, it's still there. The game already has the problem of cards with to much utility. Now the probably they will stay accessible at any given moment. Like I said destroying pendulum is about as effective as taking pain pills for an injury instead of just getting surgery.
To fix Pendulums. Change it so that after you have pendulum summoned, the pendulum breaks, both scales or even just the Lowest scale, gets sent to grave.
What about just using the ban lists? Make certain cards limited/forbidden, while also loosening restrictions on some older ones? I don't think the pendulum mechanic itself is that bad, just the support it gets.
So far, Pendulums still aren't the peak of power creep anyway. Full power Dragon Rulers and Judgment Spellbooks are still stronger than Performages and Pals.
+edwin rivas the ironic thing is full power DLs can only out Towers with Star Eater ( in standard ) and SBs I believe they have 0 outs ( again in standard ).
I'm a fan of the idea that things can be balanced with addition of more cards, as opposed to banning/changing things that are already here. What we need is some high powered spell/trap removal cards that can be splashed easily into older decks. If Konami released cards that gave outs to Pendulums, like cards that destroyed spells without targeting, cards that banish spell/traps, or send them back to the deck; then older decks would become more viable again and Konami would be able to continue selling new cards.
We'll aaaalways have that guy who goes "Oh Pendulums don't ruin YGO it's way better than old stuff that took you AGES to play something and then you played a bigger monster to beat a weaker monster and wah wah wah!!!!!" Look, think for just a millisecond if you please. You have a bunch of cards that give you +2 advantage and let's you basically throw out the window any strategy for the deck whatsoever because you can search and get everything you want, like the example that AzEyes did, you can swarm the field, the cards don't even go to the Graveyard. The only way to counter this is to wipe out the field, how? Raigeki, Dark Hole yadda yaddda. EXCEPT wiping out your opponent's field on a whim ruins THE game, it's extremely bad design. Then, you don't have a way to counter them. And that's what you get nowadays, people playing Pendulumns everywhere because you can only counter Pendulums with Pendulums. Even if you started YGO semi-recently you probably remember Spellbooks and Dragon Rulers. Yeah...
+Brian Mendez ik smartass but tbh it's kinda weak way and easy way to stop them well what i do is side 2x dark hole 3x twister I personally find beating pendulum decks easy
even when AznEyes himself tells in THIS OWN VIDEO that if you don't draw specific cards you can't counter this shit, the fact that you guys never even manage to think about this tells a lot about your understanding about balancing and card game mechanics. Maybe check out some different TCGs and you'll have a better grasp of those.
***** The card that searched your entire deck. Yes, they had to limit it to 1 so it would stop winning games. It's not correct to make a card inherently broken and limit/ban it, make it balanced and fair from the beginning.
But the problem is that the game reached the point of swarming the field OR you don't play at all, THAT'S the problem. And it was Pendulums made that possible. (more than anything before like the Xyzs and Synchros, which brought problems on their own as well, but brought some good with them)
What if we had a limit on the extra deck... Like it had to be 15 monsters TOTAL in the extra. So if you're running pendulums you can only have say 10 XYZ monsters in the extra?
One thing that I think would help out would be to keep the 15 card limit for the Extra Deck even during a duel. You would be forced to decide between having extra deck monsters or your Pendulums in your Extra Deck.
The alternative to power creep is the way the pokemon tcg and mtg do it, not sure any other games so it but the way they have only the recent 2 blocks or so available to play, it's not as bad as I originally thought it was, cards are in for 2 years, thats a good amount of time
People are saying that Pendulum Monsters need to just to go to the graveyard. Here's the thing though... what would be the point if that happened? At that point, they would essentially be just like all the other effect monsters that Special Summon other monsters, and there's already tons of those available as it is. What would be better would be to bring back cards like Harpie's Feather Duster and Heavy Storm and other removal cards to punish the kinds of decks that go "all-in". Think about what would happen with Performs or Igknights or Majespecters if they went through their incredibly long combos and repeated searches and deck thinning, just to end up having it mean nothing because it all gets destroyed/bounced. THAT is what should happen, make it so players have to actually consider when to make a big play and when to set up for it rather than just going for broke. It's a strategy game, after all, and sometimes players should be punished for trying to brute force their way to victory.
I very much agree with you, I once again faced some insane performapal build today and there was literally nothing I could do, simply because my opponent was able to immediately recruit so many cards and swarm the field with powerful monsters that would come back the moment I got rid of them. The fact that Pendulums can go back into the extra deck is indeed very problematic an approching this issue by changing the appropriate rules might be a good idea but I highly doubt that this will ever happen. On the other hand, I side decked some Ojama cards afterwards and was able to completely obliterate my opponent, which is interesting.
i remember when pendulum first came out; i ran a batteryman deck and i short circuit it... next turn the scale was remade and i got all my monsters blown away... i havent played since then. i want to see how things are now, want a match? ^^
I think I might have a bit of an idea, not just for pendulums, but for the metagame in general, but it requires... honesty, which is, admittedly, not reliable. I think it would be pretty cool to have 'tiered' tournaments. Unlike the 'cycled' system azn mentioned, the 'tiered' system would not ban cards by date or anything like that. The system would stay up-to-date on ban lists. Basically, the tiered system is where, if you are a meta player, spend money on the best and newest cards, and are purely at the tournament to be competitive and attempt to win, then you would sign up for the 'meta' tier. If you are playing a deck that is not a current meta deck, and simply want to have fun while still being competitive, you would sign up for tier 2. If your playing a deck that is purely for fun, and you just want to duel other 'fun', 'interesting', and/or 'different' decks, you sign up for tier 3. Here's how it would work: You are allowed to sign up with a deck from a lower tier, but you cannot sign up with a deck from a higher tier. In basic terms: You can apply to enter the 'meta' tier with, say, a blackwing deck that you would like to test against meta decks; BUT you cannot apply to tier 2 with a performage + pals deck, which would be a meta deck. The reason it would be like this is so strong tier 2 decks COULD test against meta decks (to see if they could potentially be meta or anti-meta), but meta decks CANNOT come into lower tiers and 'spoil the fun' for more casual players. The gatekeepers would be the judges you submit your decklist to. As judges, they know which decks are meta, so if a performage + pals player tries to apply to tier 2 for 'easy wins' the judge would deny them access and ask that they apply to the 'meta' tier. Of course, I'm sure there would be some builds of the deck that would be more fun and casual, so the judge checking the list would look not only for banned and limited cards, but they would also look at the build itself and judge whether it's 'too broken' for tier 2 or if it's okay as a deck to mess around with. The only catch I could think of would be less spectacular prizes as the tiers go down. Meta tier would have the usual invite, mat, prize card, etc, etc. Tier 2 could have A mat with some packs and a prize card, and tier 3 could have a mat and a couple packs. There could be various flaws with this... but just a thought.
Azneyes, you should do a video of your ideal banned/limited list, how you would change it to try and balance out the older decks, bring them up to a point where we wouldn't have a 3 deck format
The problem isn't the consistency even though that is a big thing. The problem stems a bit more from them being able to spam the field so hard. Can't there be some kind of summoning restriction (based on level perhaps)? I know some would argue that setting up the correct scale is enough of a restriction but obviously that's not even a problem now. I don't think there's a problem with pendulum summoning maybe 1 or 2 monsters at a time.
I agree with you that the problem is solely the fact they go to the extra deck. That was the part of the mechanic I thought was broken from the beginning, the scales and the mass summoning feels very all in and I thought that more defensive decks would be able to ride out the big mass summon because then you're opponent would loose all of their resources but that's not whats happening at all. Since they go back to the extra deck where they are completely reachable and still get all their effects wiping their field either does nothing or helps the pendulum player. Magispectors are a great example because not only are they hard to destroy but once you do it doesn't even matter and that's what separates pendulums from everything. Other decks have to go to the graveyard but even now the graveyard is a hard place to get cards back from sometimes unlike the "face-up extra deck" position which is completely accessable. Really the only way to fix it would be to either at most get rid of the top of the extra deck and everything go to the graveyard or effects are negated if they are summoned from the top of the extra deck. That's what's so maddening about Magispectors they just get their effects off over and over again with 0 consequence.
as a tcg player, like you said qlis are the only pendulum deck that i have experience with, but one thing i always liked about qlis is that you can only special qlis while you have a scale, you cant special 3 carriers and then go into castel or anything, you rely on your achetypes monsters and thats that. with the new pendulum stuff, you are allowed to go into rank 4s or synchros with the monsters you pendulum, and thats in my opinon what makes it as broke as you all think it is. the search power with these performapals is nice, but there is no "performapal bighenchbossmonster" with 3000 atk and def, thats what the archetype lacks, and thats why as a whole performapals arnt broken. i really think its just the ability to make rank 4s etc that allow the current pendulums to be op, i mean look at qlis. all there monsters have straight up immunity to monster smaller than them (level wise) they have 1 card scales, cards that search the 1 card scales (summoners art and wavering eyes) and the ability to never really lose resources (coz they are pends), but hey, they were in the same tier as nekroz, shaddols, burning abyss, tellerknights, none of which use pends. so from that perspective, it seems to me like the ability to use other mechanics like synchro and xyz on top of pendulums is whats really broken. if i had to make a solution, id say make a rule that says "you cannot special summon monsters from the extra deck except pendulum monsters while you have a complete scale"
I'm actually quite happy with pendulums atm, I find it to be quite a lot of fun. I think a lot of things could be sorted with the banlist, letting cards like feather duster and maybe putting more restrictions on the dominant architypes like performages.
My idea would be to change the ruling on pendulums to something like: 1. If you pendulum monster from your hand and they are destroyed (by Battle or Card Effect) or tributed (in any way, Tribute summon, Ritual Summon, Card effect) they go face up in the extra deck. 2. If they are used as a synchro, fusion or xyz material they go to the graveyard. 3. If a pendulum monster is special summoned from the extra deck, send it to the graveyard when it leaves the field.
Another thing about pendulums is that they don't take any other space, you can essentially have up to 8 spell cards on your side of the field. It'd be 7 w/o that field card. Pre-pendulum decks only use 6 or 5 since a lot of them don't use field cards. It's just crazy when I go against Qlis, I manage to get rid of them in one turn, but the next turn they get back. Like some said, we need harpie dust or heavy storm, or limit the extra deck to 15 cards only. If the limit is at 15, then they go to the Graveyard. Bottomless is good, but since is limited, it's hard to get. Raigeki doesn't do much because they get back the next turn.
I'd say either limit the number of pendulums permitted into the deck (like 10 per deck that go into the main deck?), or have them be sent to the grave when they're destroyed. I think the concept of going all in is nice, but when there's no draw back it's bad.
Being a player who has been around since the days of my first deck (a yugi evolution structure deck) I am a player that enjoys slowing the game down when playing those who run meta decks. Secret village of the spellcaster based decks are good for that, and skill drain base decks did the job also. Since they seem to want to push an archetype approach on the game and are now actively banning cards that slow that down I'm unsure if I'll even enter locals. I thought of syncro's as an extension of fusions, and XYZ's as a natural progression, and never saw them as game breaking, This is the first time I've looked at the game and thought they broke it. The best way to deal with it is to not have this in the TCG until it's balanced in the OCG. I have a little hope they won't rush into it. The only thing I can come up with that *may* be a bit of a fix is what has already been suggested in the commonts here - send them to the graveyard.
these monsters are okay to deal with if you don't have to follow the banned/limited cards list. Like for instance I have a deck I built that focuses on defense while making my opponent discard from the hand and deck. Remove from play is a good way to get rid of them too, but if you can't use those its really not fair to older players.
A lot of commonly available cards like Bottomless Trap Hole and Solemn Warning shrek pendulums, the problem is, in a format where Dark Hole is at 2 and Raigeki is legal (!?), those cards are apparently still broken, with only 1 allowed per deck, while every other new card that comes out generates its own advantage.
Would making pendulums go to the grave be enough? or would you need more? Clearly Konami does not care about how consistent decks are (see:Nekroz),, so is this enough?
I don't know really how I would fix the Pendulum's, but I have a couple of Theories in mind.. My 1st Theory would be that Pendulums shouldn't be allowed too go too the Extra deck Zone if U have 15 Extra cards in Ur Extra deck Zone, not unless U have extra space too place that many Pendulum monster's in Ur extra card zone.. It also says in the rule book. That U cannot exceed over 15 cards in Ur extra deck, this should apply too as Zone not Cards.. 2nd If a Pendulum monsters that are originally owned by a player are used for a Tribute Summon, Special Summon, or a Sycro Summon or used or targeted or destroyed by there own Spell/ Trap or a Monster card effect (Excluding Monster that in the Scales), if those Pendulum Monster cards that leave the field in such ways, should go straight too the graveyard.. instead of extra deck zone.. 3rd Pendulum Monsters can only be Pendulum Summoned from either the hand or the extra deck zone not both.. I'd also like too add, but this is an Optional thought.. That if U choice too Pendulum Summon from Ur hand instead of Ur Extra Deck Zone.. U will not be able too Special Summon monsters from Ur Extra deck Zone until U are clear of Pendulum monsters in Ur extra deck zone.. I say this only because, Pendulum monsters R always on top of the extra deck this should prevent U from using Ur extra deck cards.. 4th is that I gonna have agree with azneyes that Pendulum Monsters should straight too the Graveyard and not the Extra deck zone.. I don't know what else comes too mind.. Anyone agree or disagree with my thought's or have different thought's of there own. I'd love too hear Ur feed back, and it would be appreciated too hear what U have too say..
No not really.. I do not play on DN, cause I don't like it.. I play on Devpro/YGOPRO.. There R no IRL places too play around where I live.. Not too mention, I don't get money from my mommy or daddy, and I gotta pay rent where I live.. So I don't have money too spend on cards all like U probally do.. I did play in a couple events where I gotta cheated from players and Judge's... Sometimes they where calls where I didn't know my rules or my opponent never knew there rules.. So I learned as I played against friends or other duelist.. If U guys R so called Experts, and not worried abt pendulums. Just tell me what deck R U worry abt? Clownblade, Chickenrace, Igknights.. Just tell me what deck worries U, if it isn't Majesture and Proformal Pals pendulum decks that will be coming out soon enough..
Now I see Y U say Pendulums R fine. Cause U use a Ingknight deck, and U would hate too see Ur deck get hit with a rule too where Ur pendulum monsters can't be Special Summon multiple times.. Now Ur argument is that just majestic monster and proformalpals plus like crazy.. Well so does Ur deck, if U put in the right combination of cards.. Not too mention U can swarm the field over and over.. There needs too be a backdraw too the Pendulum decks.. I was just coming up with Idea's that apparently U totally disagree with.. Well that ok, just be happy I'm not CEO of Konami, cause if I were, I'd would try too find ways too make this game fair.. Not power creep the game too where Ur older cards R non-applicable..
Never say never they have made rule changes before in this game.. Never called U a bad player. Ur right there R some deck that R non Pendulum base decks that R unfair or either good matches.. It's all depends on hand, draw, Ur level of skill, and basic luck..
I think we need more good counter cards for example. (spell card) (first effect) this card can only be activated once per duel per player when this card is activated pay half of your life points to target a player extra deck then guess Fusion, Synchro, XYZ or Pendulums then remove from play all cards of that type from the extra deck then inflict 500 damage for each card removed from play by this card effect to the player whos deck was targeted by this card then that player gets to guess your extra deck and does the same to you this card effect can't be negated or perverted from activating when this card is finished remove it from play (second effect) If Konami ever banned this card it's second effect is activated, while this card is forbidden no player can summon cards from the extra deck for the region/tournament that this card is banned for
if you limit the number of monsters you could special summon from the extra deck, that could really limit how powerful pendulums are, preventing there repeating plays which seems to be the biggest problem.
They kinda can't get rid of putting them face up in the extra deck because we have cards like zefras where a trap card requires you to banish one from your extra deck. Lower tier pendulum decks need that mechanic. I think how broken they are lies in the searching capabilities.
Perhaps the problem could be fixed if the scale gets destroyed or sent to the graveyard/extra deck after it's used. That way the pendulum summoned monsters can't keep coming back over and over, or at least not as easily.
they should just make it so that the pendulum monsters from field should go to grave when they are destroyed, used as synchro material, tributed etc. to me it makes sense that they go to the extra deck when destroyed in the pendulum zone. With cards like wavering eyes or the igknight effects you are still able to load your extra deck with a bunch of monsters for later use, but they would still be a limited ressource, would make the whole pendulum mechanic more skillfull instead of just going special 5 monster brain afk mode every turn
The problem is, the extra can be stacked with more than 15 cards, even though it goes over the limit. If there was a rule that said that "Pendulums go to the graveyard if the extra deck contains already 15 cards", it would not be so annoying and more tactical.
I think if they were to only be special summoned from the Extra Deck, and not the hand too that may slow them down a bit. I understand that removing this would ruin other non-pendulum monster cards, but I also think that Pendulum should be the only monsters that can be summoned by Pendulum Scales and only from the Extra Deck. Maybe they could limit it to where you can't Pendulum Summon on the first turn of the duel?
I think that a good way to balance pendulums would be to either prevent pendulum monsters from being used as xyz materials, or send them back to the extra deck if they would be detached. That way, players will be unable to reach an equilibrium between monsters in their grave and in their extra deck, which would normally allow them to special summon for free, while also resupplying their scales. It would truly be an all or nothing style of gameplay, with limited cards that can rotate pendulums between banished zone and field, or limited cards that can directly resupply the scale from the extra deck. Maybe to give them a little more strength in this case, they could add cards with special effects based on the number of pendulum monsters in your extra deck- these could be boss monsters.
There is already a XYZ pendulum card, maybe they'll create synchro/pendulum and fusion/pendulum cards that can be placed in the pendulum zone after being destroyed and then placed face-up in the extra deck if they are destroyed again, prepared to be re-summoned. If this will be the way YuGiOh is going to "evolve" , Spirit/pendulum monsters would be broken I guess kappa Now for real, we do need more rulings to fix this game, any suggestions¿?
performage and performapal are pretty strong but majespecters cant be destroyed by card eff or targeted and they return if u destroy them with battle too so its like an unstopable army and if thats not good anouth u still got their eff wich allows u to add majespecter spells traps and monsters and even their spells and traps are broken u just sarefise a monster wich u can summon next turn to crush ur opponets best card or do anything even negate summon
If Pendulum Monsters can be used for synchro materials, why can't they be used for Fusion material? I'm mainly regarding Qliphorts to be used for Chimeratech Fortress Dragon.
I think they should limit the amount of pendulums that can go to the extra deck in a turn; like 1 pendulum monster can only go to the extra deck per turn, and the others would be sent to the grave. OR...limit the amount of pendulum monsters special summoned from the extra deck, but unlimited amount from the hand.
I have no problem with pendulms, also I don't care what happens in OCG they have different cards that we don't. They have alot of exclusive stuff that we don't, people just need to adapt to this and stop complaining. Also you can bring bottomless trap hole to 2 or solemn warning to 2. Also in the future konami will make cards that stop pendulms or make them less powerful. Just be patient and eventually pendulms will be just another mechanic like xyz and synchros.
I would fix that they are going to Extra only if they are destroyed by battle. For me it really annoying when your opponent has a field full of pendulums, you activate Raigeki to clear the field and opponent re-special summons them again next turn...
this is why I have my deck built the way I do. I run a ton of cards that aren't destroyed by battle, a lot of anti effect traps, generic defence traps and then leave my powerhouse mostly to my extra deck in the forms of beelze beelzues etc
i think pendulums destroyed by opp's cards should be in gave not extra deck, if pendulums tributed or destroyed by your card like qliphort or igknight won't be neft too much. I'm not sure if pendulum destroyed by batlle should be in grave or in extra, what do you think about it?
Honestly, I think putting Solem Warning at 3 would solve it. The issue isn't so much that Pendulums are strong ( they are), it is just there is no real "counter" play to them. You either have that 1 solem / Bottomless, or you DH/Rageki/Torrential/Mirror Force them and OTK. My suggestion would be to either put Solem Warning at 3, or make it like Plague Spreader or something, where if you Special Summon a face up monster from your extra deck, it is removed from play when it leaves the field.
I'm a synchro person, I've faced many different decks including pendulums, I tend to win against pendulums, I feel like quilhorts are OP though... I must have won like 1/10 duels against them, Shaddolls were also OP but fusions needed them to buff them up. In terms of synchyros, I love clear wing and the new stardusts, I feel like old decks aren't strong enough, but blackwings... one of my personal favourites, even now they stop pendulums for me.
I think when penduluns die, instead of going to the extra deck they shuffle into the deck like madolche. Maybe slows it down a bit while still maintining the "feel" of pendulum monsters.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
What's next is ultra summoning. It is used by summoning an ultra monster-monsters that are half monsters half traps . When they are summoned they have a monster effect. When they are set as a trap card and activated they let you summon as many ultra monsters from your deck as possible , they are uneffected by your opponent's card effects , do double damage , and when they inflict damage you win the *match*.
yeah and then Konami will still ban Stratos lol
don't artifacts get set like trap cards?
+Misael Alarcon they need to go the the graveyard from the set field in the oponents turn in order to flip as a monster, is too specific
+David Faridi Yeah. Cards like bottomless, torrential and solemn warning shouldn't be limited anymore.
+Stratos 420 I was thinking more along the lines of monsters that get their effects and summon straight from the deck, if a certain condition is met on the field. Then again, I don't know how you would play them in real life.
i want to go back to monster, spell, trap, fusion, ritual
my only problem with pendulums is them going to the extra deck. If they just died then it'd be risk-reward cause you put everything on the field, but, with them just going to extra, there's no risk.
The thing is if you blow up their scales then their trapped in the extra and can't get recycled very easy
actually pends still carry a high risk becuase once you get warning or bottomless even tt then you can easily destroy your opponent even then they are heavily reliant on scales so they are much easier to counter than ba or necroz
+jorge jimenez exactly
Pendulums as a mechanic is honestly fine. Setting scales is a -2 and barfing your field onto your hand with no other plays or without establishing a strong monster (like say an Xyz) is a terrible play. However, the support for it is absolutely dumb. Wavering Eyes and Performapal Wizard are utterly utterly crazy.
+Luz Celeste make bottomless be at 3 then theres some real risk
unleash the entirety of the banlist. this is how you hurt pendulums.
Heavy storms and harpies feather dusters for fucking days
+Haku infinite Feather duster would make it so pendulum decks can't use heavy storm to destroy their own pendulums if they mess up their scale/need to put a new scale down. For example, Qlis can destroy their scales *and* all the opponent's backrow, then set Scout in a zone and search the other scale.
At least Harpie's Feather Duster would make it so your opponent would have to help you.
+1337treeckolol well no banlist would mean ftk for days, who would care about pends and spell destruction :P
+AdventZeroKing Then by that logic, Heavy Storm to 2 like we have Dark Hole to 2.
+Haku infinite heavy storm is basically pendulum support, because if they replace the scales, the ones that they blew up are just more monsters to summon. Every good pendulum deck would play heavy and feather duster and probably even benefit more from it.
+1337treeckolol
What about cold wave or royal oppression?
Just make the extra deck a 15 card only and no more so say if a pendulum was destroyed and you had 15 cards in the extra deck already they go to the grave instead of the extra deck
Qliphorts would not care.
+Aeolianshredhead And that's fine, because Qli's are not the problem, it's the Performages/pals who not only abuse the Pendulum mechanic, but also the stupid powerful rank 4 pool.
+treemax Oh shit this makes sense you'd have to keep track what goes in your extra deck BUT this will kill Ignites. and obvious reasons they wont do this.
+treemax thats a good idea but i dont think its enough
+GenocidalEdge if the max was 20 it defeats the purpose of the idea in the first place.
The way to fix pendulums is easy:
1. Don't buy it.
2. Throw them into the bin.
3. Burn the card.
you made my life better
Pendulums are easy to fix: You can only activate 1 scale per turn. After pendulum summoning, your scales are banished or sent to the graveyard.
+ZeroX02c see now there's a fix i can get behind
Why would anyone play them?Because every other would just basically be inherently better.
I seriously hate pendulum, it just doesn't fit in, by the way there ain't no pendulum scale 0 which means I cant pendulum summon a level 1 monster(I felt sorry for level one decks)
+Phan Qirui Yeah Rip LvL 1 deck spams
+Phan Qirui Bye-bye Ghostricks ;_;
+Phan Qirui I like playing mist valley with odd-eyes crushing noobs like you.
Anthony Craft Playing overpowered decks doesn't make you pro...
+Axixe im not saying im pro here but I only play pendulums because to me there a fun thing to play around with. we all have something that makes the game worth playing for us sometimes its better to go back to its root. Also I mean azneyes has a point before pds the game was broken its just gonna take time to adapt. So in the end we shouldn't hate pendulums but you do have the right to hate those with no creativity and power creepers. Like I said I play pendulums only for the fun and "entertainment duels". also one more point to add pds aren't as op as people believe because for gods sake a simple bottomless can stop them
Yeah, it really is getting out of hand. The free searches, free plusses, and overwhelming recurrence.
Create a no pendulum format. The mechanic is easily the most polarizing in the history of yugioh. So at least give us an alternate format where we don't have to deal with that cancer.
Willy kun are you being sarcastic?
Willy kun Pendulums are still hated by roughly half the community while XYZ mostly grew on everyone by a year.
Yes pls.I don't wanna play with, or against pendulum.
Koumori Chinpo exactly
XYZ was too much already.
+xKarpfen especially rank 4
Xyz are fair. They were bad at first since they were a new format. Pendulums are too overpowered when multiple re summoning can happen where you can make xyz and synchros on a turn-to-turn basis. And this is the arguement stated in the video.
XYZ and Syncro are kinda like the cousins of Fusion. If you think about it, they're pretty similar. Pendulum is just a broken field swarming mechanic.
its 100% not like fusion...
xKarpfen
You use two or more monsters that meet certain requirements to special summon a card from your extra deck. It's not 100% alike but in those regards they are similar. You can at least see how Syncro and XYZ derived from fusion.
I'll just wait until pendulums are no longer the best thing. I'm not playing this shit.
***** Yeah but still. If the top tier decks are pendulum decks then the meta game will be hell. The whole pendulum mechanic just doesn't seem fair when you have a bunch of cards that basically remove the whole "prep stage" of a pendulum summon.
+Brian Mendez "pendulums are a fun part of the game" yeah summoning 4 level 7 monsters is one turn is so fun. While I'm here trying to get 2 monsters on the field so I could summon my dark magician. Pendulum summoning is straight gay.
+Michael Sanchez You should try incorporating new mechanics into your deck. Maybe dark magician would finally be a good deck if it used pendulums. Tribute summoning was NEVER good in yugioh. Even in goat format no one played double tribute monsters.
+Lucius6 agreed
+Brian Mendez This guy knows that hes talking about.
Not pendulums, but stuff that negate everything and monsters that aren't affected by anything or cannot be targeted/destroyed did
+Rytis Kalinauskas players with no skill like aneyes use those helmet decks
+PequeñoBuu As if there's skill in this game at all
+Rytis Kalinauskas U have somewhat a valued point..
it's a chidren's card game GET OVER IT
Sureee... Because a child definitely has the capacity to understand the complexity of this game... Fuck outta here with that unoriginal overused quote
I know it's an old video, but I think it's still relevant. About a year
later, it's becoming clear that pendulum is a mechanic that cannot be
properly balanced. These cards you talked about, in some form or another
HAD to be banned or limited, as well as a few newer ones. I think I've
come up with why.
Pendulums, in theory, have one weakness, and that is that they are INCONSISTENT. Without searching pendulums, you have to have at least 2 different pendulums with different names. The insane advantage you get is locked behind the need to run extra draw power, leaving less space for other cards in your combo.
However, when you bring in cards like in this video, it gives too much advantage. A lot of people would disagree, saying "oh, pendulum isn't tier zero anymore; it's balanced," but allow me to explain.
Many people would say that pendulums are a minus 2 in cost, so you've got to summon at least 3 monsters before things get busted, and that spending cards from your hand so quickly can leave you vulnerable, or at least it gives you less bluffing power. However, these days, that is simply not the case. Most decks will pendulum summon from the extra deck, not the hand. Even if they do summon from the hand, it's likely that they will have some effect to search or draw a few cards.
Pendulums are also OVERLOADED. They do too much. They have too much variety. They have a monster effect, a spell effect, and a pendulum scale. Having 2 different effects isn't always a bad thing, but this kind of versatility is too much. I know a lot of them are normal monsters, meaning their pendulum effect is all they have, but that can be even worse when combined with cards like diagusto emeral.
And let's look at the previous generations and why pendulum summoning is more broken than synchro and xyz. Synchro and xyz monsters were just single inherent summons. Cost is 2 monsters or more, in order to summon one stronger monster. Regardless of what that monster does, the summon itself is just two for one. Now, look at pendulums. The cost is technically 2 monsters, but they stick around, so that you can do it over and over again. It's like if all synchro monsters special summoned the materials used during your next standby phase so that you could do it again. Or it would be like xyz materials being special summoned automatically when detached. Even when you get past the cost, you're summoning up to 5 monsters. Even if it was capped at a 2 for 2, it's a little stronger than synchro or xyz. Since there is no cap on pendulums, they're very strong when used.
So, they have to be make inconsistent; if they are consistent, they are objectively stronger than synchro or xyz monsters ever were, especially because you can "pay the cost" of putting two monsters on the scales, and end up with 2-3 synchro or xyz monsters by the time you enter your battle phase.
That is why pendulum is broken, and why I will not be convinced otherwise.
I stopped playing when the XYZ monsters came out because the game got too ridiculous. Numerous crazy special summoning in each turn, formulaic decks, extremely expensive cards. There were 4-5 decks that everyone played and no other could math up against them. I had a Crystal beast deck which I loved and was really fun but since the XYZ(and a bit during the Synchro time) it got useless. I have nothing to say about the Pendulum era because I know nothign about it.Dont even know how the game is played anymore. Ive been itching to start playing again but game doesnt seem fun anymore which is really sad cause I i had been playing this game for like 10 years.
Ayreonaut 16 yeah I hear u, no offense, but unlike u I started playing, well more like I never really stopped just got lazy, xyz came out "oooooohhhhh, what's that?" pendulum: "WTF?!? WHAT IS THIS SHIT!?!" that's really all u missed
Maybe pendulum wouldn't be as bad if you could only activate 1 pendulum card per turn... Idk
no one would play them... that is just bad even worse than ice barrier bad
Sorry, was spit-ballin' xD
+jorge jimenez FUCK YOU AND YOUR OPINION! HOW COULD YOU BE SO BLIND? WHAT GOES AROUND COMES BACK AROUND IN TIME. YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT, YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT, ABOUT ME!! YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT, SHIT, SHIT, DON'T KNOW A GOD DAMN THING ABOUT ME!
+Sora Kira love you bb
That would be retarded then u wouldn't be able to pendulum summon if ur opponent Mst ur pendulum card
the only thing that I would change is that pendulums go to the graveyard instead of face up in the extra deck
+Brian Mendez "no pendulums are topping"
Magicians and Qli say hi
Lol, what? Qli top a shit ton, and Magicians are very prevalent in Japan
+Yeti Yeti ya, that's why I am trying to get ready for them and try to side decent cards for the cards that coming out... I play kozmo with traptrix
i hate pendulum. i mean shit they special summon 5 monsters then xyz or syncro 2-3 monsters in one turn -.- . i mean xyz and syncro was one thing but pendulum is a whole different level. i dont mind xyz or syncro thats fine but pendulum cmon what kinda monster dont even go to the graveyard? just to special summon from extra deck.. yeah the system is totally fucked up. its hard to even beat a normal monster pendulum deck.
+Brian Mendez shut up u got pendulum thats why. Shadolls can go to the graveyard period. i dont see shaddolls after they been sent to the graveyars go to the extra deck just to be special summoned multiple times. so shut up i beaten pendulum before. its tricky to just beat a normal one. i beaten shaddols before so stfu. pendulum is broken. its pretty easy to get ur beaten monsterz in tbe extra deck and not GRAVEYARD. then special summon all 5 synchro and xyz 3 monsters. yeah LOL if u thiNK THATS OK ur an idiot.
I feel like pendulums were designed with an "all or nothing" design in mind but the inconsistency of the early sets made them overtune them. If they added some kind of overload mechanic to hurt the next turn I feel like they could compensate for the free advantage they get now. For example: "If you pendulum summon X monsters in one turn destroy your scale." Or make it so you can't special summon the turn after you pendulum summon.
That's what i was thinking as well, and it seems the most logical sense if konami goes in a route to change the mechanic, problem is the anime would have to be changed slightly to compensate for it. But I'm sure you could do that in a simple plot twist.
+Bullpup Shotty that would make the anime crap though
I wish the Yugioh anime would get dubbed by anyone except 4kids. I hate it I wish they would sell it to adult swim or something and then it would get re-dubbed with better voice acting
+Albireo Just Archtype lock all of them(if they belong to one) and DON'T give any effects to generic ones.
How about the mechanic of the pendulum scale Overloading where when you pendulum summon 5 monsters, the pendulum scale is immediately destroyed and sent to the graveyard. I don't agree that when you set a scale the monsters get sent to the extra deck, that imo puts the mechanic over the edge because you don't even summon them yet you can summon them next turn (so balanced)
+Bullpup Shotty I like this one better than just not allowing destroyed monsters to go to the extra deck... That would take a lot of their potential away. Decks like Igknights that rely on filling the extra deck would be completely useless.
Letting it be a one-time 5 monster summon with potential recover if you topdeck the right cards is a lot more fair, since you could respond to the second wave (unlike now, you can only really try to prevent it, once it's there you are usually fucked) and it will be less consistent. Even the most broken hands could only give you like 10-15 monsters, and the game has been capable of that for a while now. Plus there would be a reason to summon less than a full field.
+Bullpup Shotty i think summoning sickness would be a bit better where pend summoned monsters cant attack the turn they are pend summoned or u cant go into battle phase if u pend summon more then 3 monsters
+Bullpup Shotty These are all great suggestions. I have played Qliphorts and now no one wants to play against me because it's overpowered. I stopped and now use Blackwing, but now my friends went out and bought Igknight's and Qli's, so now I don't want to play because I know I will lose. Konami really needs to get a handle on the pendelums. They have no drawbacks or negative effects to balance them.
+Devin McLaughlin sure they are tough, but I think this is what is called growing pains.
you have to uproot the old, and plant the new in order to thrive as a business. it is just basic economics.
to be fair I like the way they are right now.
I think pendulums do to the game the equivalent of what effect monsters did when they were launched. They basically make the older monsters obsolete. It's pretty rare to see normal monsters nowadays, with the exceptions of decks like Red-Eyes and PSYFrames. Soon enough, it will be rare to see non-pendulum monsters. Is that a good or a bad thing? I don't really know.
Yeah now It is rare to see a Pendulum deck at all.(Since Tier 0 Zoodiac is overused as heck.)
a good ruling would be, if pendulum monster are destroyed by battle or card effects (in the monstet zone), they go to graveyard, so u nerf pendelum. but don't complete destroy them. so they would be meta but not extremly op, and mirror force would be again a good card
pendulums are fine as if they don't really do much on their own except for majespecters and qlis they are heavily reliant on xyzs for power pushes and if you break there scales after they get all their stuff in the extra you get an auto win
+Haku infinite u lost with BA against qli? xD sry but this is way too funny, ba got the perfect match up... fire lake. carma cut, raigeki break. and even barbar 4 burn dmg! wtf, but sry. i think u r not the best player in this game ^^ and there are only BA and maybe shaddoll who hadn't an out to towers... (if they play star eater, the got an out)
+Haku infinite
Maybe you have had different experiences but it's a well known fact that BA have a good matchup against qlis. Doesn't mean they'll win every time but they have an advantage. And how the fuck do BA make star eater? Sounds like you only tested against some weird BA decks.
+Haku infinite the support is fine you don't really need to change how you deal with them the only broken support is pendulum call and thats it wavering eyes is necessary for pends becuase of how it completely supports the mechanic while it gives your opponent a chance to kill your set up
+Haku infinite that's you being a bad player not pendulums being broken ba float even more than pends and have the cards to ruin the scales
So many people saying they need to go to the grave normally. That is not a solution. If pendulum monsters were to go to the grave like any other card, the whole pendulum mechanic would suck. It would actually be really bad. It would see no play, and it wouldn't top. I mean, you would need to sacrifice room for a pendulum engine, and if nothing happens to your scale, it's still an inherent minus 2 just going for it, and it gets worse if anything happens to them. And not only that, but then if you go for any kind of play, you go further minus unless you are that one broken archetype. But rogue pendulum decks would be awful. Every meta deck is good because they can summon a lot without losing any kind of advantage, sometimes even creating advantage and strong board. If konami made them going to the extra, it is because they know their game really well, and they know that it wouldn't have been good enough to sell if they did.
On the other hand, going back to the extra, makes them way too strong. And there is no middle ground.
Well, I have one idea. They would go to the extra, to not make them terrible, but you can only summon like one monster that is face up in the extra deck per turn or something like that. It wouldn't make them bad, but it would nerf them. They would still be "resistant" to mass destruction, but wouldn't be as spammable. For the moment it's the best that I can see for the game. But making them go to the grave is just stupid.
i think it would have been fine if the pendulum monsters when they are destroyed or tributed would go to the extra deck. but after they as 're pendulum summoned if they would leave the field they are sent to the grave instead.
+Quintin Benton na it would have been fine if they were to be like destroyied or something but like limit the summoning cap. ya know? Thats the broke part about it
+ofratsandmen Dude. Do you release that literally every other thing on the game requires a cost? Even when you Xyz summon you give up monsters.
Bottomless to 3 plz Koonami. At least give us that. Yeah it's gonna suck with 3 bottomless just ready to fuck up your plays but I'd rather have that then to constantly get swarmed by pendulums.
+trolljanhorse we already have 3 horns to send them to grave.
+Brian Mendez yes they should
+mario2371 What are you going to do against those new pendulums that are immune to card destruction and targeting? Play horn, no need for bottomless.
+Isaac Ladron de Guevara Morales The horn of heaven ruling isn't applicable. "When your opponent would special *A* monster." The ruling is OCG exclusive I believe.
Matthew Chavez Were talking about great horn of heaven.
Pendulum monsters summoned from the extra deck should be banished when they leave the field, so you can't keep pendulum summoning the same monsters over and over again.
Then why would anyone bother playing Pendulum decks?When you would run out of resources way too fast.
what about making the extra deck 15 card limit apply to pendulum monsters and when there are 15 monsters in the extra deck pendulums go to the grave, so they have less space for there real extra deck monsters
People said the same thing about the xyz mechanic, then the synchro mechanic before that. And, they continued to play the game.
There's a small segment of yugioh players who sit around complaining about yugioh but still play the game. Which I think is the source of these "_______ ruined yugioh"
here is my 2 cents: an easy fix would be that you can only place one to the scale per turn
Yeah just make the mechanic auto-lose to chained MST and Twin Twisters.
Yu-Gi-Oh is essentially going to end up being what 20XX is to Melee. Soon who ever wins the rock, paper, scissors match will win the game.
The game was ruined since fusion summons came out.
( °3°)
+Twinflame Byond no normal monsters ruined the game
Divine/Deathray This game was ruined when they introduced cards
+Twinflame Byond You guys are noobs.
The game was ruined when they thought about making it a card game
without getting rid of the good rebudle that pendulums have the way they should rule them is if a card gives specific instructions for a card after removal from field then that's where they go. for example blackship says send it to the grave, this would normally send it to the extra deck, but it should still send it to the grave. however cards like mirror force that just say destroy but don't give instructions afterwards then game mechanics would say where to go sending them to the extra deck face up
If Pendulums get destroyed while in a pendulum zone, then they should just go to the grave. That's my opinion on how to nerf, but but immediately destroy, the Pendulum mechanic.
I agree I think if it should be the other way around though. If they are destroyed in the pendulum zone I think they could go to the extra deck, then every other time they should go to the grave.
Heard a lot about how pendulums have messed up the game by friends who play yugioh. Love how you compared it to other competitive games it gave me a much better understanding of what they're all about.
STRAAAATOOOOSSSS
SIX SAMURAAAAAIII
I'm a grown ass man.
I remember in 5Ds where Meklords were Anti-Synchro. I would do that. There needs to be a way to counter XYZ and Pendulum monsters. What I would do to counter XYZ is what Photon Dragon does, detach material. Applying that idea to Pendulums, something that removes faceup cards in the extra deck, maybe even a way to block extra deck summons.
Also, while there are ways to counter Pendulums right now, like Macro Cosmos or Stardust Warrior, those dont help when you go second. There needs to be a hard counter that I can play going second that will allow me to either get rid of the Pendulum monsters or prevent them from doing it in the first place.
heres how you fix pendulums. the extra deck can only have 15 cards max, that way if you want your cards to go back to the extra deck, then you have to have room for it. you can only play one pendulum card per turn, only summoning or placing one pendulum at a time. change the scale, you can only summon a monster that matches your scale, so you have a 5 and an 8 scale? you can special one level 8 and one level 5 monster.
+Kristof's Konnection Would completely ruin the entire pendulum mechanic. No one and I mean no one will be playing pendulem's in their extra deck.
it would ruin the mechanic, it would mean there wouldnt be entire decks devoted to them, you would only have a handful, if you set up your scale you woul still be special summoning 5 monsters every turn, thats incredably broken
No.And other decks spamming the field with a bunch of floating monsters is a thing.So why no complains about that?
not really much of a change but being allowed to bring back only 1 pendulum from the extra deck per your turn
Honestly, Cyber Dragon ruined Yugioh.
No they didn't, decks like nekroz, majispecters and melodious divas are ruining yugioh
+NightcoreCentral Cyber Dragon introduced a format based off of OTKing with Cyber Twin Dragon and Limiter.
Personally, I loved that fornat, but many people have pretty valid reasons for disliking it. Before hand, the normal summon was a very important to the games general strategy. Even Chaos monsters had some level of summoning requirements(though many would argue that the Chaos monsters broke the game which they did until they were ban/limited). Cyber Dragon allowed players to play a lot more recklessly and then drop another monster if anything went south. Power creep was introduced yet again.
Maji and Nekorz are better contemporary examples because of how drastically better they are then most other deck in the fornat.
+NightcoreCentral
melodious.... MELODIOUS LMAO
Majispecters are weak and once resources are gone, they're done.
Nekroz aren't hard, tbh.
you need to go back to DRuler format, and then tell me those decks broken.
The ultimate way to fix Infinity Errata: "You can also xyz summon this card using a cyber nova after it has conducted an attack and inflicts damage to your opponent during main phase 2" would completely fix the abusive use of the card and there will be so many people that wont bother to even use it.
+Bullpup Shotty Yuo want to fix Infinity? all you need to do is make Konami write this: Forbidden and limited list effective as of 1st December 2015 newly Forbidden Tellarknight Ptolemaeus.... Done.... now that broken thing can only be summoned in his Deck and we'd be fine...
What about if they edited the summoning rules for pendulums to be you can either do from your hand OR your extra deck (not both). sure this leaves the thing if your hand is empty or your boss monster out you just choose extra deck. but it helps prevent summoning back whats already destroyed + all the stuff you searched for. you have to choose one or the other.
They should have made it to where the pendulums ONLY go to the extra deck when destroyed in the pendulum zones. When they're destroyed or sent from anywhere else, they should go to the grave. It would make people have to decide "hey should I really push for game now, or wait". Because the fact that a mirror force, torrential, doesnt really prevent the inevitable, thats what makes pendulums broken.
Then why bother playing a Pendulum deck while you could just play almost any other deck and do better?
I'm vehemently opposed to pendulum monsters. The other day I got lucky and broke my opponents pendulum deck with my rogue and maybe a little old fashioned Inferno Tempest deck. I really savored the moment.
Konomi doesn't necessarily need to change the rules to fix the problem. All they need to do is add a ton, ton of anti-pendulum cards. Cards somewhat akin to Royal Decree but that prevent pendulum summoning. Then pendulum decks become kind of like chain burn decks. They might work in a single sometimes, but they soon become unplayable after siding.
You all are wrong!!! Effect monsters ruined YU-GI-OH.
I agree. The fact that you can summon a bunch of monsters (even if level higher than 7) might be ok, but the fact that they come back after a turn is just over powered. I think that only one pendulum card (used as spell) should be activated per turn AND that Pendulums go to extra deck face up and can't be special summoned anymore (because this way there would be some balance and the opponent wouldn't summon 30 monsters per turn because he'd have fear to have them destroyed), they should be easy to summon but impossible to revive, balancing it all
+Brian Mendez majispectors are not even that consistent but regardless they get annoying right as you have stated all over this comment section they are oped well performa pals are even more consistent than them by a lot qlis are very strong even if they sorta can be stopped igknights are very explosive and all the support has yet to be released really with only 4pendelum decks and majispectors performapals and qlis being very strong in the game igknights still finding potential that is what I call an abused mechanic.
bottomless to 3 is the only thing i can think of.
+kaeltxwz I love that Idea.. Could I also include Macro Comos, and Dimensional fissure as well.. Those cards would be awesome too go against those pesky pendulum monsters..
And Torrential at 2, but the normal decks might get Bodied because of that
Do u even exciton bro?
mrjuniornl l Let be honest destroying pendulum cards is like putting a problem on hold, it's still there. The game already has the problem of cards with to much utility. Now the probably they will stay accessible at any given moment. Like I said destroying pendulum is about as effective as taking pain pills for an injury instead of just getting surgery.
To fix Pendulums.
Change it so that after you have pendulum summoned, the pendulum breaks, both scales or even just the Lowest scale, gets sent to grave.
the game been broken since effect monsters, like what ever happened to using normal monsters with equipped cards jk
+brandon curiel Thanks for the laugh.
What about just using the ban lists? Make certain cards limited/forbidden, while also loosening restrictions on some older ones? I don't think the pendulum mechanic itself is that bad, just the support it gets.
So far, Pendulums still aren't the peak of power creep anyway. Full power Dragon Rulers and Judgment Spellbooks are still stronger than Performages and Pals.
+Warped by the NHK what an unfair comparison. full power ruler and books are the top 2 decks of all time
+edwin rivas the ironic thing is full power DLs can only out Towers with Star Eater ( in standard ) and SBs I believe they have 0 outs ( again in standard ).
***** Yh, I myself do not do it.
I'm a fan of the idea that things can be balanced with addition of more cards, as opposed to banning/changing things that are already here. What we need is some high powered spell/trap removal cards that can be splashed easily into older decks. If Konami released cards that gave outs to Pendulums, like cards that destroyed spells without targeting, cards that banish spell/traps, or send them back to the deck; then older decks would become more viable again and Konami would be able to continue selling new cards.
We'll aaaalways have that guy who goes "Oh Pendulums don't ruin YGO it's way better than old stuff that took you AGES to play something and then you played a bigger monster to beat a weaker monster and wah wah wah!!!!!"
Look, think for just a millisecond if you please. You have a bunch of cards that give you +2 advantage and let's you basically throw out the window any strategy for the deck whatsoever because you can search and get everything you want, like the example that AzEyes did, you can swarm the field, the cards don't even go to the Graveyard.
The only way to counter this is to wipe out the field, how? Raigeki, Dark Hole yadda yaddda. EXCEPT wiping out your opponent's field on a whim ruins THE game, it's extremely bad design.
Then, you don't have a way to counter them. And that's what you get nowadays, people playing Pendulumns everywhere because you can only counter Pendulums with Pendulums. Even if you started YGO semi-recently you probably remember Spellbooks and Dragon Rulers. Yeah...
+Brian Mendez wtf you smoking we have qils
+Brian Mendez ik smartass but tbh it's kinda weak way and easy way to stop them well what i do is side 2x dark hole 3x twister I personally find beating pendulum decks easy
even when AznEyes himself tells in THIS OWN VIDEO that if you don't draw specific cards you can't counter this shit, the fact that you guys never even manage to think about this tells a lot about your understanding about balancing and card game mechanics. Maybe check out some different TCGs and you'll have a better grasp of those.
*****
The card that searched your entire deck. Yes, they had to limit it to 1 so it would stop winning games. It's not correct to make a card inherently broken and limit/ban it, make it balanced and fair from the beginning.
But the problem is that the game reached the point of swarming the field OR you don't play at all, THAT'S the problem. And it was Pendulums made that possible. (more than anything before like the Xyzs and Synchros, which brought problems on their own as well, but brought some good with them)
What if we had a limit on the extra deck... Like it had to be 15 monsters TOTAL in the extra. So if you're running pendulums you can only have say 10 XYZ monsters in the extra?
MISTAKE + MISTAKEN ARREST MAIN DECKED BOYS
TKR ftw.
+Julian Roca am gonna main deck u
helix blood lol
Why don’t you use those cards, and let the people that actually card about the future of the game talk.
One thing that I think would help out would be to keep the 15 card limit for the Extra Deck even during a duel. You would be forced to decide between having extra deck monsters or your Pendulums in your Extra Deck.
Tribute summoning was what really killed yugioh
+Yoshi278 Yugioh was what really killed yugioh
+Deskbot 001 Kazuki Takahashi was what really killed Yu-Gi-Oh.
You have to also take into account the ocg has shock master. And that most of the past top decks were heavily nerfed eg. Shaddoll nekroz.
this shit is as broken as duelist kingdom rules
No.Because If they were why didn't they dominated in the Arc V era?
The alternative to power creep is the way the pokemon tcg and mtg do it, not sure any other games so it but the way they have only the recent 2 blocks or so available to play, it's not as bad as I originally thought it was, cards are in for 2 years, thats a good amount of time
Your channel ruined yugioh lol
savage
noob
noob :v
People are saying that Pendulum Monsters need to just to go to the graveyard. Here's the thing though... what would be the point if that happened? At that point, they would essentially be just like all the other effect monsters that Special Summon other monsters, and there's already tons of those available as it is.
What would be better would be to bring back cards like Harpie's Feather Duster and Heavy Storm and other removal cards to punish the kinds of decks that go "all-in". Think about what would happen with Performs or Igknights or Majespecters if they went through their incredibly long combos and repeated searches and deck thinning, just to end up having it mean nothing because it all gets destroyed/bounced. THAT is what should happen, make it so players have to actually consider when to make a big play and when to set up for it rather than just going for broke. It's a strategy game, after all, and sometimes players should be punished for trying to brute force their way to victory.
I very much agree with you, I once again faced some insane performapal build today and there was literally nothing I could do, simply because my opponent was able to immediately recruit so many cards and swarm the field with powerful monsters that would come back the moment I got rid of them.
The fact that Pendulums can go back into the extra deck is indeed very problematic an approching this issue by changing the appropriate rules might be a good idea but I highly doubt that this will ever happen.
On the other hand, I side decked some Ojama cards afterwards and was able to completely obliterate my opponent, which is interesting.
i remember when pendulum first came out; i ran a batteryman deck and i short circuit it... next turn the scale was remade and i got all my monsters blown away... i havent played since then. i want to see how things are now, want a match? ^^
And coulnd't you just OTK them when yo uare playing god damn Batteryman?
I think I might have a bit of an idea, not just for pendulums, but for the metagame in general, but it requires... honesty, which is, admittedly, not reliable.
I think it would be pretty cool to have 'tiered' tournaments. Unlike the 'cycled' system azn mentioned, the 'tiered' system would not ban cards by date or anything like that. The system would stay up-to-date on ban lists. Basically, the tiered system is where, if you are a meta player, spend money on the best and newest cards, and are purely at the tournament to be competitive and attempt to win, then you would sign up for the 'meta' tier. If you are playing a deck that is not a current meta deck, and simply want to have fun while still being competitive, you would sign up for tier 2. If your playing a deck that is purely for fun, and you just want to duel other 'fun', 'interesting', and/or 'different' decks, you sign up for tier 3.
Here's how it would work: You are allowed to sign up with a deck from a lower tier, but you cannot sign up with a deck from a higher tier. In basic terms: You can apply to enter the 'meta' tier with, say, a blackwing deck that you would like to test against meta decks; BUT you cannot apply to tier 2 with a performage + pals deck, which would be a meta deck. The reason it would be like this is so strong tier 2 decks COULD test against meta decks (to see if they could potentially be meta or anti-meta), but meta decks CANNOT come into lower tiers and 'spoil the fun' for more casual players.
The gatekeepers would be the judges you submit your decklist to. As judges, they know which decks are meta, so if a performage + pals player tries to apply to tier 2 for 'easy wins' the judge would deny them access and ask that they apply to the 'meta' tier.
Of course, I'm sure there would be some builds of the deck that would be more fun and casual, so the judge checking the list would look not only for banned and limited cards, but they would also look at the build itself and judge whether it's 'too broken' for tier 2 or if it's okay as a deck to mess around with.
The only catch I could think of would be less spectacular prizes as the tiers go down. Meta tier would have the usual invite, mat, prize card, etc, etc. Tier 2 could have A mat with some packs and a prize card, and tier 3 could have a mat and a couple packs.
There could be various flaws with this... but just a thought.
Azneyes, you should do a video of your ideal banned/limited list, how you would change it to try and balance out the older decks, bring them up to a point where we wouldn't have a 3 deck format
The problem isn't the consistency even though that is a big thing. The problem stems a bit more from them being able to spam the field so hard. Can't there be some kind of summoning restriction (based on level perhaps)? I know some would argue that setting up the correct scale is enough of a restriction but obviously that's not even a problem now. I don't think there's a problem with pendulum summoning maybe 1 or 2 monsters at a time.
I agree with you that the problem is solely the fact they go to the extra deck. That was the part of the mechanic I thought was broken from the beginning, the scales and the mass summoning feels very all in and I thought that more defensive decks would be able to ride out the big mass summon because then you're opponent would loose all of their resources but that's not whats happening at all. Since they go back to the extra deck where they are completely reachable and still get all their effects wiping their field either does nothing or helps the pendulum player. Magispectors are a great example because not only are they hard to destroy but once you do it doesn't even matter and that's what separates pendulums from everything. Other decks have to go to the graveyard but even now the graveyard is a hard place to get cards back from sometimes unlike the "face-up extra deck" position which is completely accessable. Really the only way to fix it would be to either at most get rid of the top of the extra deck and everything go to the graveyard or effects are negated if they are summoned from the top of the extra deck. That's what's so maddening about Magispectors they just get their effects off over and over again with 0 consequence.
as a tcg player, like you said qlis are the only pendulum deck that i have experience with, but one thing i always liked about qlis is that you can only special qlis while you have a scale, you cant special 3 carriers and then go into castel or anything, you rely on your achetypes monsters and thats that. with the new pendulum stuff, you are allowed to go into rank 4s or synchros with the monsters you pendulum, and thats in my opinon what makes it as broke as you all think it is. the search power with these performapals is nice, but there is no "performapal bighenchbossmonster" with 3000 atk and def, thats what the archetype lacks, and thats why as a whole performapals arnt broken. i really think its just the ability to make rank 4s etc that allow the current pendulums to be op, i mean look at qlis. all there monsters have straight up immunity to monster smaller than them (level wise) they have 1 card scales, cards that search the 1 card scales (summoners art and wavering eyes) and the ability to never really lose resources (coz they are pends), but hey, they were in the same tier as nekroz, shaddols, burning abyss, tellerknights, none of which use pends. so from that perspective, it seems to me like the ability to use other mechanics like synchro and xyz on top of pendulums is whats really broken. if i had to make a solution, id say make a rule that says "you cannot special summon monsters from the extra deck except pendulum monsters while you have a complete scale"
I'm actually quite happy with pendulums atm, I find it to be quite a lot of fun.
I think a lot of things could be sorted with the banlist, letting cards like feather duster and maybe putting more restrictions on the dominant architypes like performages.
My idea would be to change the ruling on pendulums to something like:
1. If you pendulum monster from your hand and they are destroyed (by Battle or Card Effect) or tributed (in any way, Tribute summon, Ritual Summon, Card effect) they go face up in the extra deck.
2. If they are used as a synchro, fusion or xyz material they go to the graveyard.
3. If a pendulum monster is special summoned from the extra deck, send it to the graveyard when it leaves the field.
Another thing about pendulums is that they don't take any other space, you can essentially have up to 8 spell cards on your side of the field. It'd be 7 w/o that field card. Pre-pendulum decks only use 6 or 5 since a lot of them don't use field cards. It's just crazy when I go against Qlis, I manage to get rid of them in one turn, but the next turn they get back. Like some said, we need harpie dust or heavy storm, or limit the extra deck to 15 cards only. If the limit is at 15, then they go to the Graveyard. Bottomless is good, but since is limited, it's hard to get. Raigeki doesn't do much because they get back the next turn.
I'd say either limit the number of pendulums permitted into the deck (like 10 per deck that go into the main deck?), or have them be sent to the grave when they're destroyed. I think the concept of going all in is nice, but when there's no draw back it's bad.
Being a player who has been around since the days of my first deck (a yugi evolution structure deck) I am a player that enjoys slowing the game down when playing those who run meta decks. Secret village of the spellcaster based decks are good for that, and skill drain base decks did the job also. Since they seem to want to push an archetype approach on the game and are now actively banning cards that slow that down I'm unsure if I'll even enter locals. I thought of syncro's as an extension of fusions, and XYZ's as a natural progression, and never saw them as game breaking, This is the first time I've looked at the game and thought they broke it. The best way to deal with it is to not have this in the TCG until it's balanced in the OCG. I have a little hope they won't rush into it. The only thing I can come up with that *may* be a bit of a fix is what has already been suggested in the commonts here - send them to the graveyard.
these monsters are okay to deal with if you don't have to follow the banned/limited cards list. Like for instance I have a deck I built that focuses on defense while making my opponent discard from the hand and deck. Remove from play is a good way to get rid of them too, but if you can't use those its really not fair to older players.
A lot of commonly available cards like Bottomless Trap Hole and Solemn Warning shrek pendulums, the problem is, in a format where Dark Hole is at 2 and Raigeki is legal (!?), those cards are apparently still broken, with only 1 allowed per deck, while every other new card that comes out generates its own advantage.
Would making pendulums go to the grave be enough? or would you need more? Clearly Konami does not care about how consistent decks are (see:Nekroz),, so is this enough?
Why would anyone play them If they did that?
I don't know really how I would fix the Pendulum's, but I have a couple of Theories in mind.. My 1st Theory would be that Pendulums shouldn't be allowed too go too the Extra deck Zone if U have 15 Extra cards in Ur Extra deck Zone, not unless U have extra space too place that many Pendulum monster's in Ur extra card zone.. It also says in the rule book. That U cannot exceed over 15 cards in Ur extra deck, this should apply too as Zone not Cards.. 2nd If a Pendulum monsters that are originally owned by a player are used for a Tribute Summon, Special Summon, or a Sycro Summon or used or targeted or destroyed by there own Spell/ Trap or a Monster card effect (Excluding Monster that in the Scales), if those Pendulum Monster cards that leave the field in such ways, should go straight too the graveyard.. instead of extra deck zone.. 3rd Pendulum Monsters can only be Pendulum Summoned from either the hand or the extra deck zone not both.. I'd also like too add, but this is an Optional thought.. That if U choice too Pendulum Summon from Ur hand instead of Ur Extra Deck Zone.. U will not be able too Special Summon monsters from Ur Extra deck Zone until U are clear of Pendulum monsters in Ur extra deck zone.. I say this only because, Pendulum monsters R always on top of the extra deck this should prevent U from using Ur extra deck cards.. 4th is that I gonna have agree with azneyes that Pendulum Monsters should straight too the Graveyard and not the Extra deck zone.. I don't know what else comes too mind.. Anyone agree or disagree with my thought's or have different thought's of there own. I'd love too hear Ur feed back, and it would be appreciated too hear what U have too say..
You obviously haven't played outside of dueling network before sir
No not really.. I do not play on DN, cause I don't like it.. I play on Devpro/YGOPRO.. There R no IRL places too play around where I live.. Not too mention, I don't get money from my mommy or daddy, and I gotta pay rent where I live.. So I don't have money too spend on cards all like U probally do.. I did play in a couple events where I gotta cheated from players and Judge's... Sometimes they where calls where I didn't know my rules or my opponent never knew there rules.. So I learned as I played against friends or other duelist.. If U guys R so called Experts, and not worried abt pendulums. Just tell me what deck R U worry abt? Clownblade, Chickenrace, Igknights.. Just tell me what deck worries U, if it isn't Majesture and Proformal Pals pendulum decks that will be coming out soon enough..
Now I see Y U say Pendulums R fine. Cause U use a Ingknight deck, and U would hate too see Ur deck get hit with a rule too where Ur pendulum monsters can't be Special Summon multiple times.. Now Ur argument is that just majestic monster and proformalpals plus like crazy.. Well so does Ur deck, if U put in the right combination of cards.. Not too mention U can swarm the field over and over.. There needs too be a backdraw too the Pendulum decks.. I was just coming up with Idea's that apparently U totally disagree with.. Well that ok, just be happy I'm not CEO of Konami, cause if I were, I'd would try too find ways too make this game fair.. Not power creep the game too where Ur older cards R non-applicable..
Never say never they have made rule changes before in this game.. Never called U a bad player. Ur right there R some deck that R non Pendulum base decks that R unfair or either good matches.. It's all depends on hand, draw, Ur level of skill, and basic luck..
I think we need more good counter cards for example.
(spell card)
(first effect)
this card can only be activated once per duel per player
when this card is activated pay half of your life points to target
a player extra deck then guess Fusion, Synchro, XYZ or Pendulums
then remove from play all cards of that type from the extra deck then inflict 500 damage
for each card removed from play by this card effect to the player whos deck was targeted
by this card then that player gets to guess your extra deck and does the same to you
this card effect can't be negated or perverted from activating when this card is finished remove it from play
(second effect)
If Konami ever banned this card it's second effect is activated, while this card is forbidden no player can summon
cards from the extra deck for the region/tournament that this card is banned for
if you limit the number of monsters you could special summon from the extra deck, that could really limit how powerful pendulums are, preventing there repeating plays which seems to be the biggest problem.
They kinda can't get rid of putting them face up in the extra deck because we have cards like zefras where a trap card requires you to banish one from your extra deck. Lower tier pendulum decks need that mechanic. I think how broken they are lies in the searching capabilities.
Maybe if they weren't monsters as well, or a limit on the number of times you can pendulum summon with them per activation
soloution: make a GENERIC R4 xyz with an effect: once during either players turn , banish all face-up cards in your opponents extra deck
What about limiting the pendulum summon to 1 monster per turn?
Why would anyone play them?
Perhaps the problem could be fixed if the scale gets destroyed or sent to the graveyard/extra deck after it's used. That way the pendulum summoned monsters can't keep coming back over and over, or at least not as easily.
they should just make it so that the pendulum monsters from field should go to grave when they are destroyed, used as synchro material, tributed etc.
to me it makes sense that they go to the extra deck when destroyed in the pendulum zone. With cards like wavering eyes or the igknight effects you are still able to load your extra deck with a bunch of monsters for later use, but they would still be a limited ressource, would make the whole pendulum mechanic more skillfull instead of just going special 5 monster brain afk mode every turn
The problem is, the extra can be stacked with more than 15 cards, even though it goes over the limit. If there was a rule that said that "Pendulums go to the graveyard if the extra deck contains already 15 cards", it would not be so annoying and more tactical.
I think if they were to only be special summoned from the Extra Deck, and not the hand too that may slow them down a bit. I understand that removing this would ruin other non-pendulum monster cards, but I also think that Pendulum should be the only monsters that can be summoned by Pendulum Scales and only from the Extra Deck.
Maybe they could limit it to where you can't Pendulum Summon on the first turn of the duel?
I think that a good way to balance pendulums would be to either prevent pendulum monsters from being used as xyz materials, or send them back to the extra deck if they would be detached. That way, players will be unable to reach an equilibrium between monsters in their grave and in their extra deck, which would normally allow them to special summon for free, while also resupplying their scales. It would truly be an all or nothing style of gameplay, with limited cards that can rotate pendulums between banished zone and field, or limited cards that can directly resupply the scale from the extra deck. Maybe to give them a little more strength in this case, they could add cards with special effects based on the number of pendulum monsters in your extra deck- these could be boss monsters.
+demonseed360 It's unlikely that this would ever happen, but this is how i would've done it in the beginning
perhaps limiting the number of faceup cards you can get back from the extra deck might help.
There is already a XYZ pendulum card, maybe they'll create synchro/pendulum and fusion/pendulum cards that can be placed in the pendulum zone after being destroyed and then placed face-up in the extra deck if they are destroyed again, prepared to be re-summoned.
If this will be the way YuGiOh is going to "evolve" , Spirit/pendulum monsters would be broken I guess kappa
Now for real, we do need more rulings to fix this game, any suggestions¿?
performage and performapal are pretty strong but majespecters cant be destroyed by card eff or targeted and they return if u destroy them with battle too so its like an unstopable army and if thats not good anouth u still got their eff wich allows u to add majespecter spells traps and monsters and even their spells and traps are broken u just sarefise a monster wich u can summon next turn to crush ur opponets best card or do anything even negate summon
If Pendulum Monsters can be used for synchro materials, why can't they be used for Fusion material?
I'm mainly regarding Qliphorts to be used for Chimeratech Fortress Dragon.
I think they should limit the amount of pendulums that can go to the extra deck in a turn; like 1 pendulum monster can only go to the extra deck per turn, and the others would be sent to the grave. OR...limit the amount of pendulum monsters special summoned from the extra deck, but unlimited amount from the hand.
I have no problem with pendulms, also I don't care what happens in OCG they have different cards that we don't. They have alot of exclusive stuff that we don't, people just need to adapt to this and stop complaining. Also you can bring bottomless trap hole to 2 or solemn warning to 2. Also in the future konami will make cards that stop pendulms or make them less powerful. Just be patient and eventually pendulms will be just another mechanic like xyz and synchros.
I would fix that they are going to Extra only if they are destroyed by battle. For me it really annoying when your opponent has a field full of pendulums, you activate Raigeki to clear the field and opponent re-special summons them again next turn...
this is why I have my deck built the way I do. I run a ton of cards that aren't destroyed by battle, a lot of anti effect traps, generic defence traps and then leave my powerhouse mostly to my extra deck in the forms of beelze beelzues etc
But what do you think About Igknights? They are pendulums but they are vanilla.
Anti special summons kinda work but it's still a pain in the ass if you can't find a really good way to keep up an anti special summon method
i think pendulums destroyed by opp's cards should be in gave not extra deck, if pendulums tributed or destroyed by your card like qliphort or igknight won't be neft too much. I'm not sure if pendulum destroyed by batlle should be in grave or in extra, what do you think about it?
Honestly, I think putting Solem Warning at 3 would solve it. The issue isn't so much that Pendulums are strong ( they are), it is just there is no real "counter" play to them. You either have that 1 solem / Bottomless, or you DH/Rageki/Torrential/Mirror Force them and OTK.
My suggestion would be to either put Solem Warning at 3, or make it like Plague Spreader or something, where if you Special Summon a face up monster from your extra deck, it is removed from play when it leaves the field.
I'm a synchro person, I've faced many different decks including pendulums, I tend to win against pendulums, I feel like quilhorts are OP though... I must have won like 1/10 duels against them, Shaddolls were also OP but fusions needed them to buff them up. In terms of synchyros, I love clear wing and the new stardusts, I feel like old decks aren't strong enough, but blackwings... one of my personal favourites, even now they stop pendulums for me.
I think when penduluns die, instead of going to the extra deck they shuffle into the deck like madolche. Maybe slows it down a bit while still maintining the "feel" of pendulum monsters.
Scales go to the Graveyard, and Extra Deck capped at 15, anything else that would be sent there after 15 goes to the Graveyard. Boom, pendulums fixed.
Balancing =/= Making It garbage.