How We Know the Scale and Shape of the Solar System | FLERFPRATT 8
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
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Flat Earthers obviously deny the heliocentric model of the Solar system. Here's how we know its scale and shape, and how you can verify it using technology from the 16th century... putting you 2000 years ahead of flerfs. Also, we have a look at how the shape of the Solar system is perfectly explained by gravity, and this little thing called Kepler's third law; yet more easily verifiable science that flers have to deny to maintain their delusions.
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I would like to thank Flat Earthers, Young Earth Creationists, and other science deniers for pushing me to learn more about our world and the universe beyond.
You could have added that analysis of the motion of Uranus (once it had been discovered) using both Newtonian gravitation and heliocentric orbital mechanics led to the prediction of where Neptune would be found. It was discovered less than a degree from the position predicted by those theories. That fact can be emphasized to any flat earther or other science denier who says that "astronomy is not a true science because you can't make predictions".
Add to that the predictions of a planet inside the orbit of Mercury, to explain observed errors in Mercury's motion. The hypothetical planet, unofficially dubbed Vulcan, could never be detected. Along comes Einsteinian physics, which took Newtonian physics and explained how things worked differently in extreme conditions of velocity or gravity, such as near the Sun, matching the error in Mercury's path.
See the book:
_The hunt for Vulcan: ... and how Albert Einstein destroyed a planet, discovered relativity, and deciphered the universe._
by Thomas Levenson.
Exactly 💯
Astronomy is ALL about predictions! It's the oldest induction-based science in the world.
Umm CeeJay01... that fact has been emphasized to many, many, many flat-earthers over the years.
It means nothing to them, and it will always mean nothing to them!!!
Human caused climate change predicts rapid cooling in the upper atmosphere (no other sources of climate change can predict this), but I don't think the fact that rapid cooling in the upper atmosphere was recently measured is going to change the minds of climate denialists. Conspiratorially minded people aren't going to be rationally convinced of anything.
Wow, I forgot about that "It's gravity!" clip you always used back in the day lol
Always makes me laugh.
"OF COURSE!"
That clip is the best thing to happen to the debunking community. Its so versatile because the answer is so often "Gravity!!!!!!"
@@bipolarminddroppings I always love a Desertphile flashback and totally miss the days of pwnage videos. That was eons ago in RUclips years. Relatively few people even remember the original video the clip came from
@@CaseAgainstFaith1 I'm one of those few!
INB4 Flat earthers are going to call "circular reasoning" because you said both theories corroborate each other.
Besides, circular meaning doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong anyway.
He also said each was confirmed on its own, as well as confirming each other.
In this case "circular reasoning" can also mean you've explained how orbital paths work! 😁
@@RustyWalker
Actually it does. Here's why;
Circular reasoning is not a formal logical fallacy, but a pragmatic defect in an argument whereby the premises are just as much in need of proof or evidence as the conclusion, and as a consequence the argument fails to persuade.
In this case there is no circular reasoning as not only are they collaborative towards one another, they both stand up on their own separete justification. 💁♂️
Flerfs are not used to two independent explanations coming to the same conclusion.
For them, every ad-hoc explanation contradicts everything else and they're fine with that for some reason...
@@guytheincognito4186 An argument that contains circular reasoning is invalid, but invalid arguments do not by necessity have a false conclusion.
is that better?
Hey wait a second, this isn't a video about dunking on flat earthers, you're just tricking me into learning about math!
(fr tho great video, interesting stuff)
Not only math, but physics and astronomy too in one fell swoop! 😁
I love that your videos are still exactly the same all these years later
My first time here. I am so bored. I've never heard a less charismatic speaker in my life.
@@drewharrison6433 educators dont need charisma, they need to be good at conveying information, which Martymer is.
@@bipolarminddroppings This is RUclips. Not a classroom. Here you have to be interesting.
@@bipolarminddroppings Even in a classroom, if you can't keep your students from falling asleep, you're not a good teacher.
@@drewharrison6433 he keeps my attention because im not a drooling moron who needs flashes and bangs to keep me interested.
Keep writing comments, you are just making yourself looker dumber with each one...
3:00 finally I understand the perspective of retrograde motion. You are a gifted explainer
He is pretty darn good
Ramen 🙏🍝🍜
Great job. Simple explanations for complex systems.
Copernicus main argument was simplicity. He had few physical arguments because the law of gravity or more generally Newtonian physics was not yet known. But still, he was right.
I think these flat-earthers know that they can say any BS and they'll be somebody out there that will believe them🤦🏿♂️
I mean Q is a thing, so yes.
There most powerful argument is "nuh-uh," just sometimes with more words.
@@markbeiser Generally swear words and verbal abuse.
@@markbeiser nuh uh
😜
Ah a good Monday to see you!
Also happy that you have a sponsorship. You do deserve it.
How I long for the good ol' days when Spirit Science was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard.
Ever heard of Hans Wormhat? If not, you're in for a treat, he's like 10x dumber than Jordan.
I miss Thunderf00ts older videos too.
"We don't live in a snow-globe"
Tommy Westphall at the end of St. Elsewhere begs to differ good sir.
Can I just say, I love "FLERFPRATT" as an acronym. Just hearing it makes me laugh.
"Mathematics has no real world use"
Martymer 81: I'm gonna end this man's whole career!
NoBeu. Math fake it’s a lie it’s a conspiracy there
As a blue collar tire changer.
I use mathematics regularly.
Now for the comment attracting part. It's in Imperial Standard units, not metric.
Aside from the odd 10mm lug or bolt.
Always enjoy a Desertphile flashback!
The consistency and quality of your video format and presentation is why I will never get tired of your videos. This is only a comment to help boost your video in the algorithm, while also complementing you. That is all. Have a great weekend!
I really like your videos, Martymer. They're very good background noise as well as educational to watch when focused. One thing that I would like you to know, from a stranger on the internet, is that I hope you don't feel pressured to make videos. I only say this because you've had your fair share of absences and periods of inactivity that you have come back from, but hopefully you're either making them for some money on the side or because you genuinely enjoy doing it and not to make strangers on the internet happy, or both. Even if it took months for you to be interested in a subject enough to make videos on it, I think a lot of us would much rather that than you making something because you feel pressured to.
Hopefully you don't take this as an accusation of pressure or what have you, and more just some healthy concern from a stranger on the internet who enjoys your videos, who wants to put it out there in the case where you ever do feel so.
Another masterpiece, Martymer. Thanks!
Thanks for the video :)
Missed u Mr. Martymer.
Congrats on the spobsor!!
When the remains of the 5th elephant are confirmed, we'll see who's laughing!
#PratchettHadItRight
:P
I have shares in the lard mines.
If Pratchett had it right then earth is a ball stuck in a pocket universe created to use up a surge build up of magic after they had HEX splitt the Tau which almost went very wrong .They used the build up of raw magic to make a place where magic does not work, and then by poking at it they accidentally started the Big Bang and subsequently the creation of Earth. It is now held and studied, i.e. It mostly sits and collection dust in Ponder Stibbons office but is some times tinkered and messed with by the wizards at Unseen University.
I have a Lilu Multipass.
Elephants? You're a heretic! It's obviously turtles. Turtles all the way down!
@@colormedubious4747 the turtle moves!
Oh man I forgot all about your channel. I loved your Spirit Science stuff.
To try everything Brilliant has to offer-free-for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/Martymer81/. The first 200 of you will get 20% off Brilliant’s annual premium subscription.
Excellent video!!! I do enjoy seeing just how ridiculous planetary orbits would be in a Geocentric system! The thought of something the size of Jupiter going in a spirograph orbit is actually very funny! But then, Flerfs think Jupiter is a dot on the firmament, so they don't have to consider the planet's mass in their Geocentric universe!
Lights in the sky
I like the way physicist David Deutsch demolishes the geocentric model - or the planetarium hypothesis as he calls it - in his book 'The Fabric Of Reality'. Deutsch shows how the geocentric model can only exist in terms of the heliocentric model, which means it can be discarded. Put rather more simply than I suspect he would prefer, if you presume that the movement of the planets is an illusion then you have to explain the illusion as well as the observations you've made. I wish I could express this more coherently, perhaps someone else will.
Martymer, just a comment on the word " firmament " that I hope you find beneficial in the future. That word is meant to define something that is present, but the physical nature of that presence is unknown. To better illustrate, It's a term used to describe something abstract and unknown while at the same time physically detectable. The problem with flerfers ( and what I find rationales that challenge them have never pressed ) is that they perceive the term _firmament_ as a physical thing when in fact it is not.
All references of the word _firmament,_ even in the Bible represent the term as an abstract thing that is not physically understood by the authors writing it. You can literally translate accurately the term _firmament_ to... Something. Yeah that's it... something. The term has no concrete, physical nature. It's just a term to represent something that is there but the physical attributes are unknown. Flerfers can EASILY have their precious " firmament " completely destroyed instantly by anyone debating them by simply putting the term _firmament_ in it's proper place by pulling it out of their contrived definition.
Flerfers have contrived the term to something physical in which it is not. It is no more physical and really no different than _Plato's Idea's Of_ philosophy. The term firmament is an idea of something that someone knows something is there, but has no idea what it is and this is how it was in ancient times. Now we know these things that were called firmaments are actually gradients caused by forces of both Gravity and ElectroMagnetism.
The word firmament comes from Latin firmamentum, which means a support. That's in reference to the observation that distant stars are "fixed" in place. As far as ancient people knew it was a physical object (they didn't really conceive of stuff like that yet). They believed that the stars were set into a dome, which is verified multiple times to be their view. They were wrong and knew nothing.
You need to add the video! (0:25)
The Earth isn't flat or round, it's surface is a hyperbolic manifold, the "North" and "South" poles are infinitely far away ideal vertices surrounded by icy lands bounded by horocycles. Infinitely many such horocycles exist about every horocycle, always separated by habitable continents. This is best expressed as a "Truncated triapeirogonal tiling", the apeirogons being the so called "arctic" and "antarctic" regions, the squares representing where land is, and the hexagons representing vast oceans.
There, Flat Earthers aren't creative enough to be less correct than that.
Okay, but can I get a print out or map, because that sounds like an awesome DnD world map for combat used in later levels.
11:55 "Notice that Newton's theory of gravity actually predicts Kepler's 3rd"
Newton derived his Theory of Gravity from Kepler Laws of Planetary Motion so naturally you can go between them. "Standing on the shoulders of giants" definitely included Kepler but he also mixed it with Galileo, you need the Principle of Relativity to get where Newton did. There's a reason why Newton's 1st is a re-statement of Galileo.
I could be wrong but I wouldn’t say he derived them from Kepler’s laws, rather he developed his equations and as a test looked to see if Kepler’s laws emerged out of his equations. They did. A similar thing occurred with GR, if GR is correct it must reduce to Newtonian equations in the regime where they apply. They did.
It’s almost like if you invent something new, a good way to test if it works is if it reproduces an earlier, more rudimentary thing that is known to work. So if/when we ever progress beyond GR, the first quick check is to see if it reduces to GR and Newtonian equations. If it doesn’t, then you know it’s wrong.
@@sphaera2520 Exactly. The law was derived from Newtons 2nd and 3rd law, the things falling with equal acceleration in a vacuum (as deduced by Galilei) and the inverse-square law.
It's so odd that people several hundred years ago figured out how our solarsystem works BY MAKING OBSERVATIONS, which is a big NO-NO for the Flerfs and using mathematics to come up with a working theory - and Flerfs cannot do maths.
As always, a safe landing!
Unfortunately, most flatearthers aren’t able to follow the math. Perhaps you could simplify it for them, by teaching them how to add 1 +1.
Yeah, math was constructed by THEM to cover up the truth and keep us dumb, obedient slaves.
...because complex math makes someone dumb, somehow.
Thanks for hitting upon one of the more significant contributions that Newton made: He called it "universal gravitation" because his claim was that the same forces and processes one can observe here on Earth are working throughout the universe.
You're right, flat-earthers not only postulate that there are different rules for above the sky, but they also generally believe those rules to be "supernatural in nature." (They would argue that that's not the same thing as magic, but in terms of being able to measure, verify, and get reproducible results, it might as well be.)
Martymer, my favorite "Vulcan" (logical to the end). Yes, I'm a nerd... don't judge me. 🤓
Ooh im judging you all right 😊
A flerf could estimate the size of the solar system by timing eclipses of Jupiter's moons and reversing Ole Rømer's measurement of the speed of light. The distance to the moon could be estimated by eye during a planetary occultation. Estimate the angle the planet misses the moon from one place and triangulate with the distance to where the occultation was grazing.
Once you are done with the flerf PRATT, you may want to tackle YEC PRATT...
Copernicus and the relative distances of the planets from the Sun : Enter the Astronomical Unit.
The reason this is named FLERFPRATT is after Aron Ra's PRATT files, which are about YECs.
For the rest of this, you may as well be speaking Swedish: I'm sorry, I just couldn't do high school math. I almost failed grade 11 math, and stuff like trig looked as far above my head as, lo and behold, it actually is.
Just in case you want to fix it before too many people see this one. There is something goofy going on with the Audio. Hopefully it wasn't just RUclips encoding doing it so it can be fixed.
To be more exact round like a ball 🏀 , not a disc 😂
I don’t understand how flat ether can use density as their substitute for gravity, but ignore all of the properties of solid objects. Everything was dictated by density, then a metal ball would fall straight through a wooden table. We know this not to be the case so either, solid objects are governed by a different completely magical force that doesn’t interact with anything else, or density is not the proper substitute for gravity …
I struggle to understand why Flat Earther's don't just travel into orbit, then rub some non-CGI photos in everyone's faces.
I asked the same think about taking pictures of the flat earth rim, details of the crystal dome when it comes near the FE, or even showing what's under the space pizza.
The answer is always the same, big bad eeevil government prevents every "truth seeker" from doing so, having a massive boar fleet around the massive ice wall, having a massive fleet of black helicopters and interceptors (black, naturally) to stop everyone in a home-build rocket or even a balloon to find out the truth of flat earth. And they are doing and financing this because reasons. And evil! (OF COURSE!)
Because then they would have to admit the space is real, which goes against other things like having a dome. Basically, avoid seeing the actual reality by making up more excuses as to why you couldn't. Much simpler than having to admit that they are wrong.
"Round Earth" "Big Bang" - Please stop fat-shaming the Earth. Next you'll be saying she's an oblate spheroid with peaks and dips. (j/k)
Video interaction
Flat earthers say nah-ah
So, how do we know when a planet is at greatest elongation without using an existing model?
You measure the planet's angle to the sun a lot of times over the course of a year and pick the one that's biggest. You don't need a model: you're just making measurements. The model comes from the measurements: not the other way round.
Of course, you do have to take into account how the sun moves across the sky and assume it keeps doing it once it's set because you can't see the planet otherwise.
Your fatal mistake here is, that flerfs can’t do or understand maths , it’s way over their buried heads in the sand.
Your fatal mistake here is, thinking this is for them, its not, its for us as entertainment/education, and maybe for some fence sitters or some who are just getting into this!!
But.... you're correct, flerfs can't math worth ah sh!t!! 😊
What did one gold miner say to the other?
A.U.
A.U.I.C.U.2
👍🏻👍🏻
"Very simple trigonometry" i an oxymoron, but I have a dum question: wouldn't the outer planets have to catch up to the Earth, and the Earth have to catch up with the inner planets? Since they're closer to the sun than us, their orbital round is shorter, both in terms of distance and time, isn't it? I'm getting the impression from what you describe that it's the opposite...? I'm probably misunderstanding.
Mercury makes roughly 3 orbits for every one the Earth does. The Earth doesn't "catch up", it's just slower.
Good video. unfortunately I think the math you used will be beyond the grasp on most flat Earthers.
1+1 is beyond the grasp of most of them.
Insert out of context incomplete Einstein quote, you can't look at the sky to tell the shape of what you are standing on, and the strongest argument they have, "nuh-uh!"🤪
They confirm each other... AHA! Conspiracy!
After all these years. Finally we have a new episode
???
He made episode 7 three weeks ago and episode 6 was five months ago.
Marty has published quite a few videos the last years. I think you mistake him for CHL. I miss that guy, too. Because REASONS (Eeeyyyyyy.)
@@soriac2357
I need more space hammer man in my life.
It was a joke it felt like forever
I don't understand nothing of mathematics :(
No space Jews reference? Shucks...
But jews are still from space! And they still came with the hollow Moon!
(I'm referencing Marty's earlier videos, I'm having a giggle!)
No, they came from mars. But they are maintaining the hollow moon. Because something with ankh and chakras, I think...
@@soriac2357 No, I think the martians were separate, they did the geometry wars, and got punked by the spacejews with their merkaba. Or was it? Ankh me this is getting complicated.
Of course!
I was expecting one more line in your final sentence, then I remembered that Jordan isn't necessarily a flat earther. Or is he?
Pretty sure there's a clip where he says the earth is both flat and round, which is about what you would expect from the guy :D
If it was something about certain people being from space, then yeah, I was waiting for it too.
There is one thing I find interesting. The dome isn't a dome it's a sphere, and it's generated by the Sun, and we've seen it. It is not what they think it is but if the Sun puts out this sphere we have to wonder if another sphere like that filters out intelligent radio signals. Very cool and good to see you again Martymer.
They're two different ideas. There's no need to try and find a way to harmonise them. You can simply accept the dome was part of an ancient model we know to be wrong
I agree, maybe there's a magic radio filter that doesn't block ANY part of the radio band but does know what an "intelligent signal" is and can block those somehow.
You are just bought out by Big Universe. Follow the money!
Bloody Big Evidence.
You've been bought out by Big Money. Follow the universe.
Secretly funded by Super Massive Black Hole, pulling the strings at the center of the galaxy.
Nuh uh ! You're just begging the question. 🤪 👊🐒
GRAVITY !!! 😂
Like, is "Martymer" your actual name or are you a person named 'Marty" referencing the elves of The Elder Scrolls, cuz they're called mer?
What's stopping a flat earther from going to space? Surely they can work up the funds to ride with SpaceX
just tell me if you ever need to make a clone army of yourself, i will help in any way i can
Pffff, like I believe the Earth is real.
You forgot “Jews are from space”!
I would still welcome a debunking of my black hole theory available in my videos.
Refute the inverse square law of light or explain how stars can be so distant yet visible and why they all appear to be of similar size supposedly being vastly different in distance away from the Earth.
If the inverse square law of light is used to calculate star distance it would not explain how this is what we see.
Stars, big, bright, nothing blocking our view to them!
There, all done! 😊
The inverse square law of light is not used to calculate star distance.
By no means all stars appear to be of similar size.
@betaorionis2164 They definitely appear to be about the same size. It's not even debatable.
Even dim stars look just about the same size as bright stars.
Planets are similar as well, only they are a bit brighter.
Furthermore, the inverse square law of light definitely disproves the big universe theory.
No doubt about it, and, no matter how you spin it.
@@f1at111 Oh, really?
Angular diameter of Betelgeuse: 50 mili arcsec.
Angular diameter of Altair: 3 mili arccsec.
Betelgeuse appears to be 16 times bigger than Altair. And it's just one among literally thousands of examples.
It is pathetic the way flat earthers cling to all the claims that, as you say Martymer, have been debunked _so many_ times. And yet they are surprised when science-literate people treat them with scant respect? Or even laugh at them. I find it ever harder to even try to treat them with the slightest respect.
And, of course, they are now just boring. They repeat the same old rubbish, and try to claim their superiority to their ignorant followers. It is all so sad.
My favorite example of this is Professor David vs DITRH, Dave publicly ripped DITRH a new A hole, and DITRH deserved every second of it!
When you spit in the face of all humanity and our accomplishments, you deserve nothing but relentless ridicule!!
@@C4... From what I have seen of the relentless overconfidence of the utterly ignorant DIRT; he is probably claiming that he "won" that interaction.
But no because god
All praise The one true God Om!
@@dogwalker666 Praise be, Brother, as we traverse the dens of iniquity spreading the pamphlets of salvation. Glory be to Om.
@@Anglomachian 👍🏻
FOOL YOGSOTHOTH IS THE ONE TRUE GOD!!
@@adamstrange7884 pahh a minor deity, in the ranks of "Dun Manifesting".
And Jews are from space.
Gotta be careful of space jews... they're extremely untrustworthy!
No, they are IN space:
ruclips.net/video/sz7JGCj4Q5k/видео.html&pp=ygUNamV3cyBpbiBzcGFjZQ%3D%3D
FLERFs should know the earth isn't a flat disk... Isaiah 11:12 clearly says the earth has corners...
Unless the disk shape is an illusion caused by the circular cross-section of the firmament dome intersecting with the square plane of the earth...
These are examples of how stupid is the most powerful force in the universe, as it is exponential. 2 different but still absolutely incorrect assumptions that can combine in horrifyingly wrong ways.
OOOOHhhh NOooooooo
FLERS GOT IT WRONG AGAIN
AAAAAHHHHHHAAHAHAH