Hey Engadget, I appreciate your effort in putting out this review, but I find it way off the mark. First of all, I should say that I work professionally in the music industry and, for music creation, the new mini is a god send. We don't need/want dGPUs. Not to mention this would also bring the cost of the machine up. So, having that said, let's address some of the points that I've found misleading in your video: 1 - It is not a niche machine. Case 1: music producers will benefit from this option. Every studio already has a monitor, usually a big TV, and an iMac has always been an inconvenience, because we usually deal with large analog consoles between the screen and the keyboard. Try working from a metre distance from the 5K display. Not easy. The iMac pro is even worse, as you pay a far cry for graphics performance, basically, which is useless to us. The 2018 i7 just offers the right amount of power we need. Case 2: programmers/developers. No need to have dGPUs as well, as tasks are usually only CPU intensive. 3 - Farms. No need to explain why iGPUs are a non-issue here. Case 4: the mini makes for a practical desktop machine for offices as well. If you are a company and wants a way into macOS for office work (browsing, mail, word, excel, powerpoint, photoshop etc), nothing beats the mini cost wise. It's as simple as this. The latter is, by the way, the main market of the base i3 model. For all the other cases mentioned here, the i7 is the way to go, at not so much extra cost. 2 - The ONLY exception is, errr, video editors (or gamers, which shouldn't be on macOS anyway). It is simply the other way around from what you've said on your review. Funny, no? However, as video guys are the ones producing the reviews (for obvious reasons), it is natural that we only see people complaining about the iGPUs and so forth. It's been exhaustively discussed in forums already, but Apple simply couldn't place a dGPU inside the mini and NOT have to deal with thermal issues - like happened with the 2018 MBP. The reasoning is to make the mini modular. If one needs more graphics power, one adds an eGPU and all is fine. You guys failed to acknowledge this in your review, when you said that if you need more GPU power, you'll be out of luck. So here's the answer to your question. By the way, external chassis are becoming more and more affordable by the day, so there's that as well. With all that said, I reckon that the new Mac Mini possibly isn't the first pick for video producers. For this specific "niche market", I recommend an iMac, an iMac Pro or a 15 inch MBP, though even their dGPUs will be soon obsolete as well. In the other hand, someone with a Mini and an external card can upgrade for as long as needed. Pretty smart. My final point, and this goes to the whole youtube community: PLEASE, pretty please, stop putting yourselves (video editors/creators) as the centre of the universe. Video production is just one scenario in a myriad of possible ones for this machine. Not being suited for heavy video production off the shelves doesn't make the Mac Mini a bad purchase. It is just not for you. However, for EVERY other scenario (including media servers) the iGPU will be all you'll need to get going. The 2018 mac mini patches a hole in Apple's product line, and fits like a glove for most everyone BUT video producers. That's the truth. Regards,
I’m editing an 18 minute 4K video on my MacBook Air 2013 with 4GB of ram and 128Gb hard drive. It should be uploaded to my channel in a few months at this speed 😂😆🤣 Saying that she does great and owes me nothing. For everything but sillymess like me editing a 4K video of this length my MacBook Air has been nothing short of amazing!!!!
Thanks for the great review. I was tempted by the new MBP 16", but decided against it for a Mac Mini. My reasoning was fairly simple: I wanted a MacOS machine for doing a ton of writing, plus for general web browsing etc. For a few 100 euros less than the MBP 16", I was able to get a Mac mini i5 with 8Gig Ram, 256G Memory, 34" LG Ultrafine 5k2k monitor, good mechanical keyboard and Mac Trackpad. I will upgrade the RAM myself if I find its needed (so that doesn't seem to be the case) and 256 G. If I need more RAM I'll just upgrade myself 32 G would only cost me about 120 Euros. For memory I am using Google Drive (which I would have used in anywise) and am going to buy one or two cheap external drives (I saw 1T SSD drive for about 140 Euros, which is way cheaper buying more memory in an upgraded Mac mini from Apple). I am very happy with it so far. If I decide to do some serious semi-pro photography on it I will probably end up buying a eGPU, but that's not a priority at the moment, and with they chip prices go down so fast, if I just wait a year I'll have a much better graphics chip for the money than if I were to buy it now. I thought about getting an iMac, but then I would have been tied to one machine; I much prefer the modular arrangement of the MacMini.
I think it’s the perfect box for music production. I know a guy who still runs a professional studio on a 2012 Mac Mini and I could see him upgrading to this year’s i7 Mac Mini and using that for 5-6 years.
See I was wondering this . I have a 2017 MacBook Pro with touchbar but I wanna sell it for a Mac mini and some extra analog hardware for my studio as well.
Video producers think they are the centre of the universe, and that's why all reviews are video oriented - they are the one producing them. The mini fits like a glove for music producers, programmers/developers, office work, farms, media centres. The only exceptions are gaming (macOS sucks for that anyway) and heavy video work. They try to make a drama out of it, but it's actually the other way round. They are the niche market in this case, and have been being spoiled by Apple for years now: 27 inch iMac, iMac Pro, 15 inch MBP etc. Let us, "all the rest" have it our way once for god's sake. :)
Yeah, the 6-core i7 will probably not crumble loading a few instances of Zynaptiq's Adaptiverb in Live/Studio1/Bitwig; unlike my 2012 i7 quad 16gb ram which strains.
I’ve been using my i5 Mac mini for the last year for developing iOS apps and web apps, It’s been far better than I expected. For me, what stands out is its modularity, you can upgrade SSD (thunderbolt 3 SSD), dedicated graphics card (eGPU vía thunderbolt 3), RAM. I don’t think you could say the same for any other Mac but Mac Pro.
"for the rest of us the mini feels a little like a product searching for a niche". You mean using Premiere Pro on the base model and thinking that everyone out there is editing videos is more like you need to get out of your bubble...
I was hoping this video would answer a lot of my questions about the Mac Mini and video editing, but no such luck. I think it's obvious that the base model mini isn't a great choice for video editing, so I wanted to know how the higher-end CPU configs would work beyond "they will be somewhat better." And I think a lot of people are more interested in how these machines run Final Cut rather than Premiere.
@@hartlytartly a video editor would never in their right mind attempt to edit high res video with an i3 and no eGPU even though the mac mini is capable of utilizing one. Basically, "let's just make a useless video". For a video editor, he didn't even spec this in an intelligent manner. He spent his upgrade money on RAM, which is user upgradeable at about half the cost and complained that an eGPU would be too expensive. I'm sorry but if you're a pro video editor, a poorly planned mac mini is clearly not going to be of much use for high res video editing, why would you even consider it.
What video editor would ever considering an entry level computer for 4K editing? If I'm wrong, then I'd like to see "Raspberry Pi review: A video editor's perspective" next time. 😅
My 2013 MacBook Air with 4GB ram and 128gb harddrive is now exporting an 18 minute long 4K video ready to upload to my channel. It’s doable. The editing side is choppy and guess work 😂😆🤣 But she works captain! I can’ee get no more out of her.
It’s not entry-level priced is the point. For 700 you can get a great video editing PC - or a 2015 or 2016 Macbook Pro 15", which will perform better than this PC (and not just for video editing of course, but for everything). That is pretty ridiculous performance, no matter how used you get to the "apple tax".
So confused. First of all many folks edit video on Mac with FCPX. Its simply so much more effective and efficient on a Mac than Premiere Pro. Also - the i7 on this thing is a totally different experience than the i3. Why review this one - and bring up video editing. I get it if you were going to show this base model and simple day to day tasks - but showing it editing 4K with effects on Premiere Pro is such a waste of time frankly.
Agreed. It would be good to see the video editing performance on the higher end machine. Also, most people aren’t pro video editors. This seems like just the box my web dev, system admin, project management self will love.
Apple is LOST WITHOUT STEVE JOBS........ The superficial looks and price are still there but the innovation, "engine", the magic passed when Steve passed.
This is NOTHING like the i7 6 core 3.2GHz (4.6 GHz turbo) model I got, with Amazon purchased, self installed 64GB RAM... 512GB SSD drive with an external 1TB SSD drive. How you gonna get the bottom of the line Mac Mini, then burn on the product? I don't game...well....because I have a life, married, and work 50+ hours a week (plus I get anxiety when people are shooting at me, haha) . Photography is what I hobby the most (mild video editing), which makes this perfect for me and my 32" 4K monitor... I'm so tired of people comparing this product to gaming (not you, just in general), but you can't say it's not capable of video editing when you're comparing it to the lesser model. Before today's technology, i was able to edit 4K videos with lesser hardware (struggling, but was able to do it). To bring up an i3 and say this unit can't hang is stupid, because there are models up to an i7 6 core now.....i5 at the time.... ahhh, youtube can drive you nuts, hahaha..... I appreciate your time, though. Cheers
I have to agree with many of the other commenters here. No one would use the base model with multiple monitors and a non-optimized NLE and expect iMac Pro results. Honestly I don’t know what you’re doing pitting a base model i3, running Premier and comparing it to a Pro iMac, while you know the GPU is not designed for the task at hand. If you put a decently spec’d i7 Mini with the eGPU Pro you’re still at half the cost of a 10-core iMac Pro with upgraded graphics. Plus knowing the Mini’s UHD graphics won’t do heavy, GPU-intensive tasks, then you’re misleading your audience by complaining about results you know you’d get. I hope you’ve gotten enough blowback in the comments of this video review to cut the crap and look at an i7 Mini with faster SSD and some RAM, 10GB Ethernet and eGPU Pro and see what happens while pulling a project down from a TB3 RAID in FCPX. Oh, wait. That wouldn’t give you grounds for posting a click-bait review of a base model Mini not giving you the performance of a $6K iMac Pro.
Everyone keeps reviewing the base model mini...if this is geared towards pros more people are probably going to opt for the i5 and i7...I wish we could get a review of the performance of the 6-core models!
Connor Griffin Music I’ve seen a few videos on i3 video editing, and they all say get the i5 6 core or the i7 6 core, and if you can afford it get a E- GPU.
@@michaellargent4785 the model that they benchmarked in this video was the base i3 model. If the video is called "a video editor's perspective" why would they review the model video editors are probably least likely to get? that's the point I'm making
Why are you performing your tests in Premier Pro and not FCPX? You buy a Mac for the Mac 'professional' software if you're a pro looking for that setup. It makes far more sense to go grab a larger Windows machine with a cheap GPU for Premier Pro. I enjoy the test for uniqueness as most people are testing FCPX, but they're doing it because it makes the most sense.
@@allansh828 Mind you, if you're getting an eGPU, you've partly defeated the point and should probably consider an iMac (unless you insist on the modularity, of course).
@@aurelian1 All the current iMac have trouble playing back HEVC coz they haven't been updated to 8th gen Core processors. 6-core Mac mini + external Vega56 actually beats base model iMac Pro. I would upgrade the RAM myself, apply liquid metal to allow CPU run cooler and faster, and use external SSD to save some money.
First time I see someone on Engadget who actually seem to know what they're talking about and not just reading some quick lines of facts they found on Google (Looking at you, every other Engadget journalist). It's refreshing! Keep it up!
For a “video editors review”, I’m shocked you guys didn’t include a series of tests with an external graphics card connected via Thunderbolt 3. Dropped the ball on this one big time guys! There are big differences when you do add an eGPU on those same benchmarks. eGPUs are a good fit for anyone who wants the graphics power with this little guy, and the GPU is upgradable too over time.
But how much will it cost? Why don't buy a more capable machine from the beginning? I think eGPUs are good for the long run; when you can't afford a new system, so you give it a little push.
I had the same thoughts. With an eGPU and the 6 core config, this machine should be super compelling. I have no idea why they didn't do those tests. For those talking about it adding cost - well it can be used with any other MacBook Pro/Air as well and can be upgraded separately, I see the new Mini as highly desirable, compared to the iMacs or MacBooks.
Very nice review. I personally think this machine might indeed be very good for music production! No real graphics need there. Only pure cpu performance and the ports you have on the back of the mini are very nice as well! So i would suggest this machine absolutely for the people who make music!
FINALLY. An actual, real world review of the Mini’s performance. I was tired of people doing those inane “unboxings” which tell us nothing, and simply spouting back the unit’s specs which anyone can read on Apple’s site. Thanks for the video edit review.
I think it's a tiny bit ignorant thinking that the Mac Mini is intended for heavy video editing without an eGPU. The Mac Mini is a platform, if you need graphic power: buy an eGPU, if you need tons of storage: get some TB3 storage, ...
You lose some power with the external gpu, and the box itself cost several hundreds buck, then the cost of the graphic card. so $1k for a i5 256gb ssd and another $500 for external mid range egpu like Rx 580 (if you want to stick a Vega 56 or 64 in it it will cost more) ? no thanks with that spec. But it's either that or the 2013 Mac pro. Even so, 8gb of ram & 256 gb for editing ? really ? If you're going to connect a tons of external stuff, why bother with buying a compact Pc in the first place. It's even more messy on your table.
You need a machine with at least one TB3 or USB-C port, and the Operating System to recognise it, and the right drivers and eNVM firmware and so, Just been though this with my team at work. I have a2017 MBPr 15 inch i7 quad core 2.9Ghz I think, 16 Gb RAM running macOS Mojave. They have Lenovo P50 with 48Gb RAM and a P51 with same, both on latest Win 10 Pro 64 bit. The MBPr has 4 USB-C ports split across 2 controllers. The P50/P51s have a single such port. We tested with a Radeon RX 580 8Gb VRAM in a Sonnet eGPU box, all using Davinci Resolve software. The Apple was utterly fine with it - instance detection, no drama. Same for the P51 after it auto-updated a bunch of drivers. The P50 need a ton of upgrades - BIOS (twice!) and a lot of swearing with driver updates at a variety of levels. Eventually it was fine. After also needing to be completely re-imaged due to a hung/crashed OS update - thanks MS!! All 3 machines are basically running fine with the eGPU. There is a massive difference for all 3 machines between using the eGPU and not... By having an eGPU, we can easily move it between machines as & when needed. We'll get 2 more eGPUs in time so it's one each, and a central render beast machine, in to which we'll be able to plug any combo of those eGPUs we have on our own machines, if needed, depending on the job. So it gives us a lot of flexibility without each of us having to have a monster machine each which is wasted when we aren't doing intensive edit work, which is quite often. A number of reviews by editors using eGPUs are around where they've used a fairly mid range laptop because they have to travel, hooked up to a eGPU for the heavy listing graphics work they do when not on the road, with very positive results & experiences. eGPUs are not for everybody or every situation - they are one more option. For me, it's the perfect option to balance travel, various apps being used, budgets and user frustration levels.
@C Rizzy Argh! That's a crappy time you've had by the sounds of it - certainly worse than mine. I'm sorry that's happened to you. As you said, my situation is fine, but it doesn't work for you. I also agree with some of your sentiments about Apple losing its way. For me personally I've had more OS issues & reboots in the last year since I bought my new MBPr 15 in Dec 2017 than in all my previous years as a devout Apple user (since 2006, when I made the switch for work reasons and on my own dime). As a supplier to Apple & all the other major computer and smartphone manufacturers out there I can tell you that they are no different in their aggressive approach to managing their supply chains and balancing financial risks. I used to travel a lot more than now - I'd have no issue doing a major OSX update whilst waiting for my next flight at London's Heathrow airport... now I wait at least 1 if not 2 'dot' releases before moving forward with installing an update - sad. Headed in the direction of MS, but nowhere near as bad in my experience. I have to use Windows & MS products every day at work, and almost all my colleagues do too - they still have a bigger nightmare experience than I with my Macs - and for longer... It's sad to see Apple headed down this road, but it seems to be all about their share price etc... same as all the others. For many years I hoped they'd reverse course on what they did to iWorks. But no... not really. iMovie became a toy, instead of a serious app for the 90% of us who don't or can't become anything like a pro video editor, or don't need to... Meanwhile MS seems to have gotten some of it's sh*t together since their last CEO left... So, what might you suggest as a possible solution for my situation that doesn't involve an eGPU? You may have perspectives and knowledge not open to me, so I'm genuinely curious if you have a view - no problem if you don't, and I certainly don't want to impose on your weekend. There are 3 of us, we have to travel and take our computing capabilities away from our desks, often for weeks at a time overseas. We do video work including Fx rendering when in the office but not when on the road. Working from home on occasion is important too. We don't have a bottomless pit of money for hardware & software, and are constrained by who & how we buy our hardware and software - if it's not already a 'preferred' make and model, then we have to jump through hoops to get an exception granted. For the project we're working on we literally don't have time to work the system that way. When traveling we are unenthusiastic about lugging around a large, heavy, but very powerful laptop, especially when we have no need of it's extras. Thanks for any perspective you might share, and either way, enjoy the rest of your weekend!
You can only “purchase a better machine from the outset” if your budget allows at the time. The modularity of this system is its strength. I can get into the Apple ecosystem and carry out some pretty tough work on it “as is,” and then later on expand the storage, memory, even the graphics if I want to push things even further. Or as budget allows.
people who make videos always make the mistake of focusing on and judging a machine using their workflow. i use the i7 mini for development and it smokes.
I will never understand why people choose to use Premiere knowing it's just much slower than FCPX Anyway, IIRC you failed to mention you can use an eGPU, and you say it underperforms? dude, you know nothing about computers. You're literally just talking about the GPU all the time.
Good review. Bonus points for putting 'a video editor's perspective'. Most people are not video editors and it gets grating to see a review where 90% of it is talking about Final Cut Pro benchmarks
i'm a digital artist and this machine is a perfect machine for me, i like using macs but at the same time i don't want to use an imac so this could be a perfect fit since i don't need high end machine, and if i want to i can do some light gaming too, so
Just a economical version of Mac notebook which mainly for coding and non-graphics intensive tasks, the extra cost is mainly goes to the Mac OS. Otherwise getting a hackintosh is the way to go with the same cost.
Thanks for this review, I found it very helpful! Unlike your earlier commenters, I'm fairly new to video editing and am planning my next purchase. It definitely looks like the upgraded mac mini is a must fro video editing (if you're going to use a mac mini).
I use a 2014 Mini as a desktop at home, running Mojave and Windows 10 via Parallels. Equipped with 3.0 Ghz i7. 16 GB ram and a 1 TB SSD, this puppy is more than powerful enough for what most users would need. Plus, the Mini is dead silent and reliable, hooked to a 24" Dell U2417H display.
DSD I just bought an iMac 5k (with credit) because the Mac mini has a bug bottleneck with graphics and the external graphic cards are so expensive. The iMac 5k isn’t cheap but is a great investment, the easiness of upgrading the ram has a excellent value
Abraham Cervantes that’s what I was afraid you were going to say... I’m running my MacBook Pro as a desktop running 2 4K monitors so an iMac would t completely work well in that setup. I should probably just budget for an upgrade in a few more years or until the mbp blows up. That almost happened last year when the batt swelled but thankfully apple fixed it.
They might as well have called it the Mac Mini Pro, given how beefed up it is. Once I eventually get one, if the time comes to replace my quad-core i7 Mac Mini from 2012, I'll buy the 6-core i5 model and configure it online with a 1 TB solid state drive. I'll get it with the stock configuration of 8 GB of RAM and then upgrade the RAM myself, as it'd be noticeably cheaper than getting the RAM from Apple (and it helps the Mini has user-replacable RAM in it again.) I might also get a Thunderbolt 3/USB-C dock to give me additional USB-3 ports and an SD card slot, and a FireWire-to-Thunderbolt adapter for when I import old home video footage into the computer to transfer them to DVD for any potential clients (I'm starting up a local service where I transfer home movies on videotape to DVD for consumers; I already have an external slim USB Blu-Ray burner from LG I use with my Mini.)
Thanks for the insights. I bought a 2018 Mac Mini, and married it to a Sonnett 550W eGPU with Vega 56 graphics card. It made sense for me because I already have a screen and external RAID. Just a warning: if you upgrade the RAM then beware of the Crucial Memory website listings. I bought a 32Gb RAM kit from them. They list two sets of products for the Mac Mini 2018, one set rated at 2666 SODIMM (ie speed) the other at 3200 SODIMM for a 25% price premium. The faster kits have a big red ** NEW ** label on them, so I thought "faster is better" and bought one. Once installed the Mac tells me the speed is 2667. I called Crucial sales support who told me that the ram kit is "compatible" but not all motherboards support the higher speed rating. Despite it being listed under the 2018 Mac Mini upgrade section. So unless you know your motherboard is different from mine, just buy the cheaper kit or buy elsewhere from a seller that cares enough not to mislead you.
Anyone interested in doing some halfway serious video editing would like to see a test of a better-equipped version of this computer. How much does the i7 & 16gb or RAM improve video performance? But the point about the video limitations is very important.
It's 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports supporting USB-C. Graphic designers and gamers always think every machine should be made for them, and to their specs. There's a comment below from Rob Smith that says it perfectly..."It's the perfect box for music production". There are other creative, multimedia people that this machine is a monster for, and they aren't grandparents. Since it is a monster for audio production (with the correct configuration) and user upgradeable RAM (I don't care what Apple calls it) it is more cost efficient than a MacBook Pro, Mac Pro and iMac Pro, or even a regular iMac. Most good audio production software (like Pro Tools) utilizes mutli-core threads. This will show up in Pro Tools as 12 cores, plus being able to cache the session to RAM with being able to have up to 64GB RAM, and adding a decent (doesn't have to score high on the list) eGPU graphics card, then plugging a great Thunderbolt Audio interface in with a couple USB ports to plug an iLOK into or more...for Audio Production, this is basically the equivalent of a 2009/2010 Mac Pro cheese grater which started at 2500 for a quad core with 6GB Ram.
so...you should hide waveform view, resize your dock, and premiere has a restrict ram for other programs tab, so change this setting and you will be good
I love how every review talks about "is the Mac mini a pro video editing computer?" and then they test a base config model with Premiere. How about a 6 core, with an egpu running FCPX? Let's face it, that's what 90% of video editors are going to be doing. I have that config arriving Friday and have a feeling it will do far better than my max spec 2017 27" iMac.
@@LukezyM I bought it and returned it. Even with the EGPU, it wasn't able to edit h.265 video smoothly. I still needed proxies, so I just ended up keeping my 2017 iMac and using proxies.
I just bought one of these brand new and I've experienced multiple issues of freezing already with very basic final cut x projects. Same with ableton. I'm really hoping this is a catalina issue and not the mac itself.
Which model did you buy? the i3 or i7? 8gb or more than that? All of this stuff matters..... because maybe the base i3 model does suck exactly like this review states....
Most people considering this computer for editing purposes probably want to know how it performs using FCPX. Heck, Premier Pro can be glitchy on higher end PCs, so how on earth would it work on the base level of the base model mac?
This review answers the question of whether you can get away with using the budget i3 alone for video editing. He address that well. Adding eGPUs and upping the specs breaks most peoples' budgets, and if you can afford them you might as well shop for a different Mac altogether.
What was that? I thought Engadget was a tech publication. How can a reviewer make such a blanket statement about the Mac mini when he only tested the base model? He should have mentioned that upgrading the specs to an i7 and more ram would give better performance that's on par with a MacBook pro
Is Engaget really this dumb to let this guy review this? It took me a whole 5 mins of looking over the specs, upgrading it through the Apple Store, and then realizing this thing is designed specifically to give the purchaser options. I know, the reviewer probably isn’t used to Apple giving us options, but that is exactly what this is for. Options you say? Yeah, and you have enough to make this equal to, or better than, an iMac Pro......wait for it...for just a bit over half the cost! So when this guy said “you have other options for graphics, like an eGPU, but they are expensive and not a good choice” I about laughed my butt off! The option to use an eGPU is exactly what Apple is giving you silly man! Example: iMac Pro comes with a max choice of a Vega 64. Great card, right now. But in 3yrs you may want to upgrade, but you can’t with an iMac Pro....you can with a Mac Mini with an eGPU. Yeah, now you’re tracking right? So buy the i7 chip and 512gb storage option and hit checkout. Upgrade the RAM on your own, or pay some tech geek to do it for you, for hundreds of dollars less than what Apple will charge you. Get a Razer Core X and put whatever card you want in it. Get whatever monitor you want.....say maybe a 37” widescreen. Oh shit son, you have a better system than any iMac Pro owner has and you can upgrade your GPU and Monitor whenever you please! I hope this has helped Engaget see past the narrow review this guy has provided.
I did the same 5 minutes of clicking through the order form - there's no eGPU offered by Apple. The best third party eGPU option seems to be the Gigabyte Gaming Box RX 580 which is on sale for $420 atm. The i7/8GB/512GB Mac Mini is $1500 and a 32GB SODIMM kit is $250 ($350 less than what Apple charges). The minimum price for this setup is... $2170. If you're on FCP, I guess you pay your Apple tax and get on with your life (although honestly, you probably have been on some sort of iMac or a Mac Pro anyway since no one's been waiting around for 4 years for an 4K capable Mac Mini and this is a side-grade from existing options at best). If you're a pro working on a Mac you already know what you're in for. Now if you're editing on Premiere, lets see what we can build with an Intel Hades Canyon NUC8i7HVK, which has similar CPU/GPU power. $870 for the kit, $250 for the same memory, $190 for a 512GB Samsung 970 PRO SSD = $1310. The equivalently specced Mac Mini is 65% more expensive. And this system is still actually portable since there isn't an eGPU enclosure. And it has support for 6 x 4K displays @ 60Hz. And you can also add an eGPU if you want in the future, although again, if you're considering adding extra enclosures, just go with a mini-ITX build that would be a few hundred bucks cheaper and you can still have a
@@lhl First off there is an eGPU that is on the Apple Store website and it's the only one they offer.....it's the Blackmagic eGPU. It's expensive and comes with a Vega 56 or 64 I believe. The best eGPU for the money, which allows you to upgrade your GPU whenever you want, is the Razer Core X. The Gigabyte Gaming Box cannot be upgraded and you can get the Razer Core X for about $300 and then buy an RX580 for about $200 and you have the same thing for $80 more but you can upgrade it later on when the RX580 is outdated. There is no NUC that will stay current as long as the Mac Mini will, my MacBook Pro is still extremely fast and it's 6yrs old.....I'd LOVE to see any PC laptop that stays fast after 3-4yrs. People say "Apple tax" but I say quality....you simply pay for what you get and there is a reason Apple products hold value, it's not a myth.
@@8654ZuluFoxtrot I exclusively used Mac laptops for almost 15 years (upgraded about every 1-2yrs between work and personal laptops) but between the direction they've decided to take with the hardware and OS,and my changing requirements (GPU and battery life) I ended up switching off. A bit of an adjustment, but there are a lot of benefits on the flip side (eg you pick the specs you want, and you pay less for more performance). Macs have much higher resale value, that's true, but it depends on whether your computing work directly relates to your billable/earnable productivity I suppose. I also ran a company and went through dozens of Mac Minis for 4-5years, but ended up switching the entire fleet to NUC-like Linux systems, again, because of the decisions Apple made. Over the past few years, especially in developer/video production/motion graphics, anyone not locked into Apple-only products (iOS, FCP, etc) has been moving off - you simply can't build Pro systems at anywhere near the raw power, or the $/power w/ a Mac. I use Apple products where it makes sense (have an iPhone, iPad, and Watch), but for production compute? Like many others, I've moved on and it's unlikely Apple will ever win me back considering that they continue to dig down the same path (increased lockin, poor $/perf, knee-capped perf) w/o many benefits. If it works for you, great, btw. But I don't know why you'd be hard charging when in many cases (say if you are a CC video editor, it totally doesn't).
Me... Still using a 2014 macbook pro 15in. Using both thunderbolt 2 ports. One used completely by the egpu. The other one with 2 pcie boxes and a gigabit adapter daisy chained together. Still just as fast as this base model mac mini.
You guys should do a review of this model with a eGPU to see how it runs video editing with premiere pro and perhaps final cut. It's $799 for the base model but some people are buying premium 13 inch MacBook Pro's or ultra books for home use in some cases and are paying $1000+ then adding eGPU's to enhance it in the graphics field for video editing, or even gaming. So perhaps run a test with the base model with a eGPU, a compatible AMD card to see how it will do then. But still keeping it below the price of a 15 inch workstation laptop like the Dell XPS 4k model with the 1050 Ti or the MacBook Pro 15 higher spec model but with a more powerful graphics performance, such as the AMD RX 580 giving it 4Gb more VRAM than the top 15 inch MacBook Pro but way under the price tag of it. Give them an insight whether to pay a little more for the processor or ram upgrade, though the upgrades would be more beneficial in all editing fields.
It appears to be a great studio DAW system. For headless or Slate Raven use, previously we were relegated to 2012 quads before, with a single older Thunderbolt 2 port, or spend thousands more for a 6.1 Mac Pro trashcan to get a true next level up. This appears to bench for audio DAW work similar to the trashcan- is that what you are finding (anyone)?
Very interesting. If i put in 32gb of Kingston HyperX DDR4 Ram running at 3200mhz, will it actually run at 3200mhz or does the system cap at 2666mhz speeds ?
I have a 2012 hooked up to an Apple thunderbolt display and just got a 6 core refurbished from Apple. As a music guy it’s a godsend. My 2012 was slowing down dramatically.
What the point of a glued drive? If Apple would have a forum where customers from difference pro areas would say what they want, we would have amazing machine, which are well thought...
I seem to be in an agreement on the GPU issue. IMHO, the better specs beg for a better graphics GPU. I also have issues with the SSD being integrated to the logic board. SSD have a lower number read/writes in their life span than spinning rust. I'd at least like the option to swap out the SSD once before having to purchase another mini.
This is video is so dumb... No one in their right mind would choose an i3 based system for video editing. As for graphics I agree it would have been better to feature dedicated GPU in the box but Apple want to keep that small form factor and sell you an eGPU if you need the extra grunt. I think the i7 with the Blackmagic eGPU would actually be a pretty strong editing system but I haven't seen any reviews for that setup yet.
Love my Mac Mini. It’s my stock trading beast. Portable and have the required ports for everyday you. It’s was design for the average Jo. Every RUclipsr complaining about graphics.
For editing videos, I don't see why someone would buy this if they were not a Final Cut editor. Of course, building a custom PC makes more sense for Premiere. The more interesting question is how does it perform with FCPX because my old 2012 Mac mini was able to cut through 4K clips like butter.
Some good points yet..i have a slightly different option. I just purchased the mac mini (upgraded the ram, i7, 32gb, 500gb with a 16TB external) and my main reason over the new updated imac is 2 reasons: Monitor (or monitors!) I'm using 2x4k monitors and need them to be the same so they look nicer (adding a second display to the imac looks terrible as it won't match) plus the imac display is great BUT the bezels are so ugly and outdated. Also, i plan on getting an egpu later and plan to have my mac mini around for a few years 5+. The cpu and ram will hold up but the gpu can be easily be replaced, you CAN'T do that on an iMac. cheers! (also agree the 2014 was junk, the 2012 was great)
Thanks for a brilliant review,would the i7 be good for video editing ? I currently use a i5 2014 Mac mini which is ok with iMovie but would love something faster ? I do like having a Mac mini as I have nice monitor key board & mouse Thanks
Basically, the right story here. We only bought one because A) we wanted one machine with macOS, B) we don't play any 3D games, and C) our video editing is extremely casual, and we can live with a bit of slow if we ever tried something fancy. Otherwise, the base i5 is nicely future proof.
I'm working in pro audio, a friend got one of these and swears by it. I got one and was... slightly frustrated. After scrolling though the forums, I found the following problems were not just a stroke of bad luck and afflict many MP 2018 users. ...Mine can't even connect to two screens, forget three, with the left screen turning off about 30% of the time and the right hand screen flickering black every few minuites(I actually bought it to connect with 3 for a screen for my vocal booth). ...My Samsung 500gb external SSD causes my mac mini to claim "not enough power for external devices" ...The wifi simply stops working now and again. Yesterday I didn't have any wifi, where my mac pro was connecting no problem at the same position. Yea... My friends one is running 3 screens, doing great. Its a lottery product.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey Engadget, I appreciate your effort in putting out this review, but I find it way off the mark. First of all, I should say that I work professionally in the music industry and, for music creation, the new mini is a god send. We don't need/want dGPUs. Not to mention this would also bring the cost of the machine up. So, having that said, let's address some of the points that I've found misleading in your video:
1 - It is not a niche machine. Case 1: music producers will benefit from this option. Every studio already has a monitor, usually a big TV, and an iMac has always been an inconvenience, because we usually deal with large analog consoles between the screen and the keyboard. Try working from a metre distance from the 5K display. Not easy. The iMac pro is even worse, as you pay a far cry for graphics performance, basically, which is useless to us. The 2018 i7 just offers the right amount of power we need. Case 2: programmers/developers. No need to have dGPUs as well, as tasks are usually only CPU intensive. 3 - Farms. No need to explain why iGPUs are a non-issue here. Case 4: the mini makes for a practical desktop machine for offices as well. If you are a company and wants a way into macOS for office work (browsing, mail, word, excel, powerpoint, photoshop etc), nothing beats the mini cost wise. It's as simple as this. The latter is, by the way, the main market of the base i3 model. For all the other cases mentioned here, the i7 is the way to go, at not so much extra cost.
2 - The ONLY exception is, errr, video editors (or gamers, which shouldn't be on macOS anyway). It is simply the other way around from what you've said on your review. Funny, no? However, as video guys are the ones producing the reviews (for obvious reasons), it is natural that we only see people complaining about the iGPUs and so forth. It's been exhaustively discussed in forums already, but Apple simply couldn't place a dGPU inside the mini and NOT have to deal with thermal issues - like happened with the 2018 MBP. The reasoning is to make the mini modular. If one needs more graphics power, one adds an eGPU and all is fine. You guys failed to acknowledge this in your review, when you said that if you need more GPU power, you'll be out of luck. So here's the answer to your question. By the way, external chassis are becoming more and more affordable by the day, so there's that as well.
With all that said, I reckon that the new Mac Mini possibly isn't the first pick for video producers. For this specific "niche market", I recommend an iMac, an iMac Pro or a 15 inch MBP, though even their dGPUs will be soon obsolete as well. In the other hand, someone with a Mini and an external card can upgrade for as long as needed. Pretty smart.
My final point, and this goes to the whole youtube community: PLEASE, pretty please, stop putting yourselves (video editors/creators) as the centre of the universe. Video production is just one scenario in a myriad of possible ones for this machine. Not being suited for heavy video production off the shelves doesn't make the Mac Mini a bad purchase. It is just not for you. However, for EVERY other scenario (including media servers) the iGPU will be all you'll need to get going. The 2018 mac mini patches a hole in Apple's product line, and fits like a glove for most everyone BUT video producers. That's the truth.
Regards,
Great review. I learned a lot!
Great opinion.
M Vlcek You have saved me a bundle of money!
I’m editing an 18 minute 4K video on my MacBook Air 2013 with 4GB of ram and 128Gb hard drive. It should be uploaded to my channel in a few months at this speed 😂😆🤣
Saying that she does great and owes me nothing. For everything but sillymess like me editing a 4K video of this length my MacBook Air has been nothing short of amazing!!!!
Thanks for the great review. I was tempted by the new MBP 16", but decided against it for a Mac Mini. My reasoning was fairly simple: I wanted a MacOS machine for doing a ton of writing, plus for general web browsing etc. For a few 100 euros less than the MBP 16", I was able to get a Mac mini i5 with 8Gig Ram, 256G Memory, 34" LG Ultrafine 5k2k monitor, good mechanical keyboard and Mac Trackpad. I will upgrade the RAM myself if I find its needed (so that doesn't seem to be the case) and 256 G. If I need more RAM I'll just upgrade myself 32 G would only cost me about 120 Euros. For memory I am using Google Drive (which I would have used in anywise) and am going to buy one or two cheap external drives (I saw 1T SSD drive for about 140 Euros, which is way cheaper buying more memory in an upgraded Mac mini from Apple). I am very happy with it so far. If I decide to do some serious semi-pro photography on it I will probably end up buying a eGPU, but that's not a priority at the moment, and with they chip prices go down so fast, if I just wait a year I'll have a much better graphics chip for the money than if I were to buy it now. I thought about getting an iMac, but then I would have been tied to one machine; I much prefer the modular arrangement of the MacMini.
I think it’s the perfect box for music production. I know a guy who still runs a professional studio on a 2012 Mac Mini and I could see him upgrading to this year’s i7 Mac Mini and using that for 5-6 years.
Rob Smith that’s exactly what I use it for and it works wonders!
See I was wondering this . I have a 2017 MacBook Pro with touchbar but I wanna sell it for a Mac mini and some extra analog hardware for my studio as well.
Video producers think they are the centre of the universe, and that's why all reviews are video oriented - they are the one producing them. The mini fits like a glove for music producers, programmers/developers, office work, farms, media centres. The only exceptions are gaming (macOS sucks for that anyway) and heavy video work. They try to make a drama out of it, but it's actually the other way round. They are the niche market in this case, and have been being spoiled by Apple for years now: 27 inch iMac, iMac Pro, 15 inch MBP etc. Let us, "all the rest" have it our way once for god's sake. :)
@@MikeVlcek especially for developers. The only reason I own a Mac mini is to port my apps to the app store.
Yeah, the 6-core i7 will probably not crumble loading a few instances of Zynaptiq's Adaptiverb in Live/Studio1/Bitwig; unlike my 2012 i7 quad 16gb ram which strains.
I’ve been using my i5 Mac mini for the last year for developing iOS apps and web apps, It’s been far better than I expected. For me, what stands out is its modularity, you can upgrade SSD (thunderbolt 3 SSD), dedicated graphics card (eGPU vía thunderbolt 3), RAM. I don’t think you could say the same for any other Mac but Mac Pro.
for music producers with external audio interface and excellent SW support this is a good option
"for the rest of us the mini feels a little like a product searching for a niche". You mean using Premiere Pro on the base model and thinking that everyone out there is editing videos is more like you need to get out of your bubble...
I was hoping this video would answer a lot of my questions about the Mac Mini and video editing, but no such luck. I think it's obvious that the base model mini isn't a great choice for video editing, so I wanted to know how the higher-end CPU configs would work beyond "they will be somewhat better." And I think a lot of people are more interested in how these machines run Final Cut rather than Premiere.
why are you testing the base model with premiere pro... this is not even a realistic use case in the slightest
tunacorn2 exactly what I was thinking.
I was about to say then saw your comment.
your daily reminder that the title of the video is "2018 Mac Mini Review: A video editor's perspective".
All the other channels tested the specced out models. Who can/ wants afford them?
Because he is dumb
@@hartlytartly a video editor would never in their right mind attempt to edit high res video with an i3 and no eGPU even though the mac mini is capable of utilizing one. Basically, "let's just make a useless video". For a video editor, he didn't even spec this in an intelligent manner. He spent his upgrade money on RAM, which is user upgradeable at about half the cost and complained that an eGPU would be too expensive. I'm sorry but if you're a pro video editor, a poorly planned mac mini is clearly not going to be of much use for high res video editing, why would you even consider it.
What video editor would ever considering an entry level computer for 4K editing? If I'm wrong, then I'd like to see "Raspberry Pi review: A video editor's perspective" next time. 😅
fotobyjp Ha ha ha. You can say that. 😃
I think that’s crap. A 10.5” iPad Pro can edit 4K with zero stutter. Christ my old 2014 MacBook Air can handle 4K edits
My 2013 MacBook Air with 4GB ram and 128gb harddrive is now exporting an 18 minute long 4K video ready to upload to my channel. It’s doable. The editing side is choppy and guess work 😂😆🤣
But she works captain! I can’ee get no more out of her.
It’s not entry-level priced is the point. For 700 you can get a great video editing PC - or a 2015 or 2016 Macbook Pro 15", which will perform better than this PC (and not just for video editing of course, but for everything). That is pretty ridiculous performance, no matter how used you get to the "apple tax".
Ha!
I don't think that "the rest of us" edits video for work on a daily basis. This guy belongs in a niche, not "the rest of us"
not to mention he does 4k. most people can do 2k
So confused. First of all many folks edit video on Mac with FCPX. Its simply so much more effective and efficient on a Mac than Premiere Pro. Also - the i7 on this thing is a totally different experience than the i3. Why review this one - and bring up video editing. I get it if you were going to show this base model and simple day to day tasks - but showing it editing 4K with effects on Premiere Pro is such a waste of time frankly.
Agreed. It would be good to see the video editing performance on the higher end machine.
Also, most people aren’t pro video editors. This seems like just the box my web dev, system admin, project management self will love.
Apple is LOST WITHOUT STEVE JOBS........ The superficial looks and price are still there but the innovation, "engine", the magic passed when Steve passed.
Agreed regarding the config he chose. Go with a beefier config for someone who actually might want to edit videos...
I was thinking the exact same thing watching this. His way of thinking is really tone deaf.
씨Jiyong wow. Original comment. Way to not contribute at all to the actual conversation.
Did this guy just roll out of bed, eat a box of Krispy Kremes, then paw that once-beautiful aluminum finish into fingerprint hell?
mmm doughnuts
@@nightcoder5k
The comment was on the greasy fingerprints... What did it have to do with being straight or not?
@@nightcoder5k You don't have to be straight to have eyes that work and a brain to process the information your eyes give it.
Take it easy, guys. Have a great weekend.
can you upgrade old mac mini instead of buying new mac mini ?
This is NOTHING like the i7 6 core 3.2GHz (4.6 GHz turbo) model I got, with Amazon purchased, self installed 64GB RAM... 512GB SSD drive with an external 1TB SSD drive. How you gonna get the bottom of the line Mac Mini, then burn on the product? I don't game...well....because I have a life, married, and work 50+ hours a week (plus I get anxiety when people are shooting at me, haha) . Photography is what I hobby the most (mild video editing), which makes this perfect for me and my 32" 4K monitor... I'm so tired of people comparing this product to gaming (not you, just in general), but you can't say it's not capable of video editing when you're comparing it to the lesser model. Before today's technology, i was able to edit 4K videos with lesser hardware (struggling, but was able to do it). To bring up an i3 and say this unit can't hang is stupid, because there are models up to an i7 6 core now.....i5 at the time.... ahhh, youtube can drive you nuts, hahaha..... I appreciate your time, though. Cheers
I have to agree with many of the other commenters here. No one would use the base model with multiple monitors and a non-optimized NLE and expect iMac Pro results. Honestly I don’t know what you’re doing pitting a base model i3, running Premier and comparing it to a Pro iMac, while you know the GPU is not designed for the task at hand.
If you put a decently spec’d i7 Mini with the eGPU Pro you’re still at half the cost of a 10-core iMac Pro with upgraded graphics. Plus knowing the Mini’s UHD graphics won’t do heavy, GPU-intensive tasks, then you’re misleading your audience by complaining about results you know you’d get.
I hope you’ve gotten enough blowback in the comments of this video review to cut the crap and look at an i7 Mini with faster SSD and some RAM, 10GB Ethernet and eGPU Pro and see what happens while pulling a project down from a TB3 RAID in FCPX. Oh, wait. That wouldn’t give you grounds for posting a click-bait review of a base model Mini not giving you the performance of a $6K iMac Pro.
Everyone keeps reviewing the base model mini...if this is geared towards pros more people are probably going to opt for the i5 and i7...I wish we could get a review of the performance of the 6-core models!
Why would a video editor go out and buy the base model? Doesn't make sense.
Or apple could stop releasing underpowered base models
Connor Griffin Music I’ve seen a few videos on i3 video editing, and they all say get the i5 6 core or the i7 6 core, and if you can afford it get a E- GPU.
@@michaellargent4785 the model that they benchmarked in this video was the base i3 model. If the video is called "a video editor's perspective" why would they review the model video editors are probably least likely to get? that's the point I'm making
@@michaellargent4785 the vast majority of the review was about the i3 tho.
Why are you performing your tests in Premier Pro and not FCPX? You buy a Mac for the Mac 'professional' software if you're a pro looking for that setup. It makes far more sense to go grab a larger Windows machine with a cheap GPU for Premier Pro. I enjoy the test for uniqueness as most people are testing FCPX, but they're doing it because it makes the most sense.
Isaac Clark
Well said 👍🏻👍🏻
He hasn't even tried an eGPU.
Why on earth buy a Mac for Premier?
@@allansh828 Mind you, if you're getting an eGPU, you've partly defeated the point and should probably consider an iMac (unless you insist on the modularity, of course).
@@aurelian1 All the current iMac have trouble playing back HEVC coz they haven't been updated to 8th gen Core processors.
6-core Mac mini + external Vega56 actually beats base model iMac Pro. I would upgrade the RAM myself, apply liquid metal to allow CPU run cooler and faster, and use external SSD to save some money.
First time I see someone on Engadget who actually seem to know what they're talking about and not just reading some quick lines of facts they found on Google (Looking at you, every other Engadget journalist). It's refreshing! Keep it up!
For a “video editors review”, I’m shocked you guys didn’t include a series of tests with an external graphics card connected via Thunderbolt 3. Dropped the ball on this one big time guys! There are big differences when you do add an eGPU on those same benchmarks.
eGPUs are a good fit for anyone who wants the graphics power with this little guy, and the GPU is upgradable too over time.
But how much will it cost? Why don't buy a more capable machine from the beginning? I think eGPUs are good for the long run; when you can't afford a new system, so you give it a little push.
Animation & Postproduction because this is modular essentially with an eGPU and portable. You could upgrade over time as well. Tons of good reasons.
I had the same thoughts. With an eGPU and the 6 core config, this machine should be super compelling. I have no idea why they didn't do those tests. For those talking about it adding cost - well it can be used with any other MacBook Pro/Air as well and can be upgraded separately, I see the new Mini as highly desirable, compared to the iMacs or MacBooks.
Why... You're doubling an already high price
can you upgrade old mac mini instead of buying new mac mini ?
Very nice review. I personally think this machine might indeed be very good for music production! No real graphics need there. Only pure cpu performance and the ports you have on the back of the mini are very nice as well! So i would suggest this machine absolutely for the people who make music!
Interested to see video editing performance with an eGPU.
FINALLY. An actual, real world review of the Mini’s performance. I was tired of people doing those inane “unboxings” which tell us nothing, and simply spouting back the unit’s specs which anyone can read on Apple’s site. Thanks for the video edit review.
Can u test the i5 and i7 models
I think it's a tiny bit ignorant thinking that the Mac Mini is intended for heavy video editing without an eGPU. The Mac Mini is a platform, if you need graphic power: buy an eGPU, if you need tons of storage: get some TB3 storage, ...
does eGPU work with any laptop pc or mac pros ?
You need a fast port, otherwise it will be slow anyway.
You lose some power with the external gpu, and the box itself cost several hundreds buck, then the cost of the graphic card.
so $1k for a i5 256gb ssd and another $500 for external mid range egpu like Rx 580 (if you want to stick a Vega 56 or 64 in it it will cost more) ? no thanks with that spec. But it's either that or the 2013 Mac pro. Even so, 8gb of ram & 256 gb for editing ? really ? If you're going to connect a tons of external stuff, why bother with buying a compact Pc in the first place. It's even more messy on your table.
You need a machine with at least one TB3 or USB-C port, and the Operating System to recognise it, and the right drivers and eNVM firmware and so,
Just been though this with my team at work. I have a2017 MBPr 15 inch i7 quad core 2.9Ghz I think, 16 Gb RAM running macOS Mojave. They have Lenovo P50 with 48Gb RAM and a P51 with same, both on latest Win 10 Pro 64 bit. The MBPr has 4 USB-C ports split across 2 controllers. The P50/P51s have a single such port. We tested with a Radeon RX 580 8Gb VRAM in a Sonnet eGPU box, all using Davinci Resolve software.
The Apple was utterly fine with it - instance detection, no drama. Same for the P51 after it auto-updated a bunch of drivers. The P50 need a ton of upgrades - BIOS (twice!) and a lot of swearing with driver updates at a variety of levels. Eventually it was fine. After also needing to be completely re-imaged due to a hung/crashed OS update - thanks MS!!
All 3 machines are basically running fine with the eGPU. There is a massive difference for all 3 machines between using the eGPU and not...
By having an eGPU, we can easily move it between machines as & when needed. We'll get 2 more eGPUs in time so it's one each, and a central render beast machine, in to which we'll be able to plug any combo of those eGPUs we have on our own machines, if needed, depending on the job. So it gives us a lot of flexibility without each of us having to have a monster machine each which is wasted when we aren't doing intensive edit work, which is quite often.
A number of reviews by editors using eGPUs are around where they've used a fairly mid range laptop because they have to travel, hooked up to a eGPU for the heavy listing graphics work they do when not on the road, with very positive results & experiences.
eGPUs are not for everybody or every situation - they are one more option. For me, it's the perfect option to balance travel, various apps being used, budgets and user frustration levels.
@C Rizzy Argh! That's a crappy time you've had by the sounds of it - certainly worse than mine. I'm sorry that's happened to you. As you said, my situation is fine, but it doesn't work for you. I also agree with some of your sentiments about Apple losing its way. For me personally I've had more OS issues & reboots in the last year since I bought my new MBPr 15 in Dec 2017 than in all my previous years as a devout Apple user (since 2006, when I made the switch for work reasons and on my own dime). As a supplier to Apple & all the other major computer and smartphone manufacturers out there I can tell you that they are no different in their aggressive approach to managing their supply chains and balancing financial risks. I used to travel a lot more than now - I'd have no issue doing a major OSX update whilst waiting for my next flight at London's Heathrow airport... now I wait at least 1 if not 2 'dot' releases before moving forward with installing an update - sad. Headed in the direction of MS, but nowhere near as bad in my experience. I have to use Windows & MS products every day at work, and almost all my colleagues do too - they still have a bigger nightmare experience than I with my Macs - and for longer... It's sad to see Apple headed down this road, but it seems to be all about their share price etc... same as all the others. For many years I hoped they'd reverse course on what they did to iWorks. But no... not really. iMovie became a toy, instead of a serious app for the 90% of us who don't or can't become anything like a pro video editor, or don't need to... Meanwhile MS seems to have gotten some of it's sh*t together since their last CEO left...
So, what might you suggest as a possible solution for my situation that doesn't involve an eGPU? You may have perspectives and knowledge not open to me, so I'm genuinely curious if you have a view - no problem if you don't, and I certainly don't want to impose on your weekend.
There are 3 of us, we have to travel and take our computing capabilities away from our desks, often for weeks at a time overseas. We do video work including Fx rendering when in the office but not when on the road. Working from home on occasion is important too. We don't have a bottomless pit of money for hardware & software, and are constrained by who & how we buy our hardware and software - if it's not already a 'preferred' make and model, then we have to jump through hoops to get an exception granted. For the project we're working on we literally don't have time to work the system that way. When traveling we are unenthusiastic about lugging around a large, heavy, but very powerful laptop, especially when we have no need of it's extras.
Thanks for any perspective you might share, and either way, enjoy the rest of your weekend!
An eGPU might push costs up initially, but it is still upgradeable and you can eBay the old card when you upgrade again.
Egpu is a must buy if you are considering getting this new mac mini
But then it would kill the portability factor for good
You can only “purchase a better machine from the outset” if your budget allows at the time. The modularity of this system is its strength. I can get into the Apple ecosystem and carry out some pretty tough work on it “as is,” and then later on expand the storage, memory, even the graphics if I want to push things even further. Or as budget allows.
people who make videos always make the mistake of focusing on and judging a machine using their workflow. i use the i7 mini for development and it smokes.
Yeap it seems to be typical You Tube, shows a lack of creativity and a very closed mindset.
dude it SAYS "a video editors perspective", not "a developers perspective".
Why are your monitors so far apart
I will never understand why people choose to use Premiere knowing it's just much slower than FCPX
Anyway, IIRC you failed to mention you can use an eGPU, and you say it underperforms? dude, you know nothing about computers. You're literally just talking about the GPU all the time.
Well, my plan is will buy an egpu for my old mac and a mac mini later on. I don’t have to pay out the full cost at one time.
It's perfect for a iOS developer since programming and compiling don't need any GPU.
That's why I bought the Mac Mini
Good review. Bonus points for putting 'a video editor's perspective'. Most people are not video editors and it gets grating to see a review where 90% of it is talking about Final Cut Pro benchmarks
anyone else notice that the video was slightly behind the audio?
Kieran Martin yes
i'm a digital artist and this machine is a perfect machine for me, i like using macs but at the same time i don't want to use an imac so this could be a perfect fit since i don't need high end machine, and if i want to i can do some light gaming too, so
Just a economical version of Mac notebook which mainly for coding and non-graphics intensive tasks, the extra cost is mainly goes to the Mac OS. Otherwise getting a hackintosh is the way to go with the same cost.
Thanks for this review, I found it very helpful! Unlike your earlier commenters, I'm fairly new to video editing and am planning my next purchase. It definitely looks like the upgraded mac mini is a must fro video editing (if you're going to use a mac mini).
I use a 2014 Mini as a desktop at home, running Mojave and Windows 10 via Parallels. Equipped with 3.0 Ghz i7. 16 GB ram and a 1 TB SSD, this puppy is more than powerful enough for what most users would need. Plus, the Mini is dead silent and reliable, hooked to a 24" Dell U2417H display.
Im thinking on buying the mini for 4k editing in FinalCut (I can't afford an iMac)
I’m thinking of the same thing. Did you make a purchase yet and what did you find?
DSD I just bought an iMac 5k (with credit) because the Mac mini has a bug bottleneck with graphics and the external graphic cards are so expensive. The iMac 5k isn’t cheap but is a great investment, the easiness of upgrading the ram has a excellent value
Abraham Cervantes that’s what I was afraid you were going to say... I’m running my MacBook Pro as a desktop running 2 4K monitors so an iMac would t completely work well in that setup. I should probably just budget for an upgrade in a few more years or until the mbp blows up. That almost happened last year when the batt swelled but thankfully apple fixed it.
Looks very interesting this new MacMiNi
This is what every day computer should be. Small, quiet, fast and reliable. It is not built for video editing or similar tasks.
They might as well have called it the Mac Mini Pro, given how beefed up it is.
Once I eventually get one, if the time comes to replace my quad-core i7 Mac Mini from 2012, I'll buy the 6-core i5 model and configure it online with a 1 TB solid state drive. I'll get it with the stock configuration of 8 GB of RAM and then upgrade the RAM myself, as it'd be noticeably cheaper than getting the RAM from Apple (and it helps the Mini has user-replacable RAM in it again.) I might also get a Thunderbolt 3/USB-C dock to give me additional USB-3 ports and an SD card slot, and a FireWire-to-Thunderbolt adapter for when I import old home video footage into the computer to transfer them to DVD for any potential clients (I'm starting up a local service where I transfer home movies on videotape to DVD for consumers; I already have an external slim USB Blu-Ray burner from LG I use with my Mini.)
Thanks for the insights. I bought a 2018 Mac Mini, and married it to a Sonnett 550W eGPU with Vega 56 graphics card. It made sense for me because I already have a screen and external RAID.
Just a warning: if you upgrade the RAM then beware of the Crucial Memory website listings. I bought a 32Gb RAM kit from them. They list two sets of products for the Mac Mini 2018, one set rated at 2666 SODIMM (ie speed) the other at 3200 SODIMM for a 25% price premium. The faster kits have a big red ** NEW ** label on them, so I thought "faster is better" and bought one.
Once installed the Mac tells me the speed is 2667. I called Crucial sales support who told me that the ram kit is "compatible" but not all motherboards support the higher speed rating. Despite it being listed under the 2018 Mac Mini upgrade section. So unless you know your motherboard is different from mine, just buy the cheaper kit or buy elsewhere from a seller that cares enough not to mislead you.
imo if you use premiere use WINDOWS. FCPX is just too just TOO dang optimized and great that using anything else on a mac is a bad idea.
Anyone interested in doing some halfway serious video editing would like to see a test of a better-equipped version of this computer.
How much does the i7 & 16gb or RAM improve video performance? But the point about the video limitations is very important.
Really appreciated this video and his expertise.
It's 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports supporting USB-C. Graphic designers and gamers always think every machine should be made for them, and to their specs. There's a comment below from Rob Smith that says it perfectly..."It's the perfect box for music production". There are other creative, multimedia people that this machine is a monster for, and they aren't grandparents. Since it is a monster for audio production (with the correct configuration) and user upgradeable RAM (I don't care what Apple calls it) it is more cost efficient than a MacBook Pro, Mac Pro and iMac Pro, or even a regular iMac. Most good audio production software (like Pro Tools) utilizes mutli-core threads. This will show up in Pro Tools as 12 cores, plus being able to cache the session to RAM with being able to have up to 64GB RAM, and adding a decent (doesn't have to score high on the list) eGPU graphics card, then plugging a great Thunderbolt Audio interface in with a couple USB ports to plug an iLOK into or more...for Audio Production, this is basically the equivalent of a 2009/2010 Mac Pro cheese grater which started at 2500 for a quad core with 6GB Ram.
so...you should hide waveform view, resize your dock, and premiere has a restrict ram for other programs tab, so change this setting and you will be good
UHD 630, no surprise when premiere and game lags. But final cut pro on Intel HD is very well optimized
I love how every review talks about "is the Mac mini a pro video editing computer?" and then they test a base config model with Premiere. How about a 6 core, with an egpu running FCPX? Let's face it, that's what 90% of video editors are going to be doing. I have that config arriving Friday and have a feeling it will do far better than my max spec 2017 27" iMac.
Damian Arnold Hi, have you got it yet, how is it?
@@LukezyM I bought it and returned it. Even with the EGPU, it wasn't able to edit h.265 video smoothly. I still needed proxies, so I just ended up keeping my 2017 iMac and using proxies.
Would have liked to see what the new apple cpu does for video rendering and also why not test Final Cut?
I just bought one of these brand new and I've experienced multiple issues of freezing already with very basic final cut x projects. Same with ableton. I'm really hoping this is a catalina issue and not the mac itself.
It is one of the worst machines ever put out by Apple.
Which model did you buy? the i3 or i7? 8gb or more than that? All of this stuff matters..... because maybe the base i3 model does suck exactly like this review states....
Is the video and audio in sync with you, guys?
Most people considering this computer for editing purposes probably want to know how it performs using FCPX. Heck, Premier Pro can be glitchy on higher end PCs, so how on earth would it work on the base level of the base model mac?
I'm saving this video for the Comments. People in the comments understood the mac mini better than this bafoon. Holy cow engadget!!!
Come back! Many new and good comments to read! :D
God Damn it this is the best review i've seen so far for the Mac Mini!!!!!
How it was working with the photoshop and illustrator with 4k monitor
This review answers the question of whether you can get away with using the budget i3 alone for video editing. He address that well. Adding eGPUs and upping the specs breaks most peoples' budgets, and if you can afford them you might as well shop for a different Mac altogether.
What was that? I thought Engadget was a tech publication. How can a reviewer make such a blanket statement about the Mac mini when he only tested the base model? He should have mentioned that upgrading the specs to an i7 and more ram would give better performance that's on par with a MacBook pro
Is Engaget really this dumb to let this guy review this? It took me a whole 5 mins of looking over the specs, upgrading it through the Apple Store, and then realizing this thing is designed specifically to give the purchaser options. I know, the reviewer probably isn’t used to Apple giving us options, but that is exactly what this is for.
Options you say? Yeah, and you have enough to make this equal to, or better than, an iMac Pro......wait for it...for just a bit over half the cost! So when this guy said “you have other options for graphics, like an eGPU, but they are expensive and not a good choice” I about laughed my butt off! The option to use an eGPU is exactly what Apple is giving you silly man! Example: iMac Pro comes with a max choice of a Vega 64. Great card, right now. But in 3yrs you may want to upgrade, but you can’t with an iMac Pro....you can with a Mac Mini with an eGPU. Yeah, now you’re tracking right?
So buy the i7 chip and 512gb storage option and hit checkout. Upgrade the RAM on your own, or pay some tech geek to do it for you, for hundreds of dollars less than what Apple will charge you. Get a Razer Core X and put whatever card you want in it. Get whatever monitor you want.....say maybe a 37” widescreen. Oh shit son, you have a better system than any iMac Pro owner has and you can upgrade your GPU and Monitor whenever you please!
I hope this has helped Engaget see past the narrow review this guy has provided.
That’s a great analysis... not sure whether to follow your advice or wait for the Mac Pro next year
I did the same 5 minutes of clicking through the order form - there's no eGPU offered by Apple. The best third party eGPU option seems to be the Gigabyte Gaming Box RX 580 which is on sale for $420 atm. The i7/8GB/512GB Mac Mini is $1500 and a 32GB SODIMM kit is $250 ($350 less than what Apple charges). The minimum price for this setup is... $2170. If you're on FCP, I guess you pay your Apple tax and get on with your life (although honestly, you probably have been on some sort of iMac or a Mac Pro anyway since no one's been waiting around for 4 years for an 4K capable Mac Mini and this is a side-grade from existing options at best). If you're a pro working on a Mac you already know what you're in for.
Now if you're editing on Premiere, lets see what we can build with an Intel Hades Canyon NUC8i7HVK, which has similar CPU/GPU power. $870 for the kit, $250 for the same memory, $190 for a 512GB Samsung 970 PRO SSD = $1310. The equivalently specced Mac Mini is 65% more expensive. And this system is still actually portable since there isn't an eGPU enclosure. And it has support for 6 x 4K displays @ 60Hz. And you can also add an eGPU if you want in the future, although again, if you're considering adding extra enclosures, just go with a mini-ITX build that would be a few hundred bucks cheaper and you can still have a
@@lhl First off there is an eGPU that is on the Apple Store website and it's the only one they offer.....it's the Blackmagic eGPU. It's expensive and comes with a Vega 56 or 64 I believe. The best eGPU for the money, which allows you to upgrade your GPU whenever you want, is the Razer Core X. The Gigabyte Gaming Box cannot be upgraded and you can get the Razer Core X for about $300 and then buy an RX580 for about $200 and you have the same thing for $80 more but you can upgrade it later on when the RX580 is outdated.
There is no NUC that will stay current as long as the Mac Mini will, my MacBook Pro is still extremely fast and it's 6yrs old.....I'd LOVE to see any PC laptop that stays fast after 3-4yrs. People say "Apple tax" but I say quality....you simply pay for what you get and there is a reason Apple products hold value, it's not a myth.
@@8654ZuluFoxtrot I exclusively used Mac laptops for almost 15 years (upgraded about every 1-2yrs between work and personal laptops) but between the direction they've decided to take with the hardware and OS,and my changing requirements (GPU and battery life) I ended up switching off. A bit of an adjustment, but there are a lot of benefits on the flip side (eg you pick the specs you want, and you pay less for more performance). Macs have much higher resale value, that's true, but it depends on whether your computing work directly relates to your billable/earnable productivity I suppose.
I also ran a company and went through dozens of Mac Minis for 4-5years, but ended up switching the entire fleet to NUC-like Linux systems, again, because of the decisions Apple made. Over the past few years, especially in developer/video production/motion graphics, anyone not locked into Apple-only products (iOS, FCP, etc) has been moving off - you simply can't build Pro systems at anywhere near the raw power, or the $/power w/ a Mac. I use Apple products where it makes sense (have an iPhone, iPad, and Watch), but for production compute? Like many others, I've moved on and it's unlikely Apple will ever win me back considering that they continue to dig down the same path (increased lockin, poor $/perf, knee-capped perf) w/o many benefits. If it works for you, great, btw. But I don't know why you'd be hard charging when in many cases (say if you are a CC video editor, it totally doesn't).
The prices to upgrade this Through apple is like being robbed in broad daylight .. Yikes
Can you do a music production test
Me... Still using a 2014 macbook pro 15in. Using both thunderbolt 2 ports. One used completely by the egpu. The other one with 2 pcie boxes and a gigabit adapter daisy chained together. Still just as fast as this base model mac mini.
I run a home Logic Studio...the 2018 Mac Mini looks PERFECT!!! (caveat...I could care less about other than basic video editing or gaming).
Smufter16 You have a basic model with core i3?)
Great review
What about photo editing capabilities?
You guys should do a review of this model with a eGPU to see how it runs video editing with premiere pro and perhaps final cut. It's $799 for the base model but some people are buying premium 13 inch MacBook Pro's or ultra books for home use in some cases and are paying $1000+ then adding eGPU's to enhance it in the graphics field for video editing, or even gaming. So perhaps run a test with the base model with a eGPU, a compatible AMD card to see how it will do then. But still keeping it below the price of a 15 inch workstation laptop like the Dell XPS 4k model with the 1050 Ti or the MacBook Pro 15 higher spec model but with a more powerful graphics performance, such as the AMD RX 580 giving it 4Gb more VRAM than the top 15 inch MacBook Pro but way under the price tag of it. Give them an insight whether to pay a little more for the processor or ram upgrade, though the upgrades would be more beneficial in all editing fields.
Why would I buy a mac for video editing then use adobe premier?
I think you should increase the gap between your monitors
you should use fcpx
Hey, the HP Z2 you mention has a separate power brick that's almost the size of the Mac mini.
If you want gaming, or actual high performance in this formfactor, take a look at Zotac's mini PC's. They're awesome
It appears to be a great studio DAW system. For headless or Slate Raven use, previously we were relegated to 2012 quads before, with a single older Thunderbolt 2 port, or spend thousands more for a 6.1 Mac Pro trashcan to get a true next level up. This appears to bench for audio DAW work similar to the trashcan- is that what you are finding (anyone)?
If you have 2000 dollars to spend and use final cut, this plus an egpu could be the best option.
Objective and Clear review
How about Final Cut Pro?
you shouldn't try the mac mini base model for video editing and you could use an egpu for a better result
I might buy one when the new Cinema displays come out next year. But I probably should wait until they include the AMD Vega/Intel graphics.
Very interesting. If i put in 32gb of Kingston HyperX DDR4 Ram running at 3200mhz, will it actually run at 3200mhz or does the system cap at 2666mhz speeds ?
I have a 2012 hooked up to an Apple thunderbolt display and just got a 6 core refurbished from Apple. As a music guy it’s a godsend. My 2012 was slowing down dramatically.
What the point of a glued drive? If Apple would have a forum where customers from difference pro areas would say what they want, we would have amazing machine, which are well thought...
I seem to be in an agreement on the GPU issue. IMHO, the better specs beg for a better graphics GPU. I also have issues with the SSD being integrated to the logic board. SSD have a lower number read/writes in their life span than spinning rust. I'd at least like the option to swap out the SSD once before having to purchase another mini.
Cheers for the heads up on using a clip of my video! *copyright claims entire channel, destroys CEO with bare hands*
very odd not to test Apple's FCPX with this MacMini or mention eGPU options!!!!
This is video is so dumb... No one in their right mind would choose an i3 based system for video editing. As for graphics I agree it would have been better to feature dedicated GPU in the box but Apple want to keep that small form factor and sell you an eGPU if you need the extra grunt. I think the i7 with the Blackmagic eGPU would actually be a pretty strong editing system but I haven't seen any reviews for that setup yet.
Love my Mac Mini. It’s my stock trading beast. Portable and have the required ports for everyday you. It’s was design for the average Jo. Every RUclipsr complaining about graphics.
I'd be really interested in seeing a egpu test with this configuration
May i mode it to use a 12 volt battery?
Not a fan of the review but he SOOO has a point with Kabylake G. Why didn’t Apple offer that option?!
The real question with the 6P is did you break the visor while you did it?
How can you use the computer with that big gap between the monitors? Doesn’t it make your neck hurt?
can you upgrade old mac mini instead of buying new mac mini ?
For editing videos, I don't see why someone would buy this if they were not a Final Cut editor. Of course, building a custom PC makes more sense for Premiere. The more interesting question is how does it perform with FCPX because my old 2012 Mac mini was able to cut through 4K clips like butter.
Apple should put their own Arm chips into the mini. Performance would rocket.
I saw 4 thunderbolt 3 and 1 hdmi. It will support up to 5 monitors? I prefer 3 monitors.
a maxed out full specs mac mini 2018 should be perfect for video editing im sure. with added egpu
Some good points yet..i have a slightly different option. I just purchased the mac mini (upgraded the ram, i7, 32gb, 500gb with a
16TB external) and my main reason over the new updated imac is 2
reasons: Monitor (or monitors!) I'm using 2x4k monitors and need them to
be the same so they look nicer (adding a second display to the imac
looks terrible as it won't match) plus the imac display is great BUT the
bezels are so ugly and outdated. Also, i plan on getting an egpu later
and plan to have my mac mini around for a few years 5+. The cpu and
ram will hold up but the gpu can be easily be replaced, you CAN'T do
that on an iMac. cheers! (also agree the 2014 was junk, the 2012 was great)
Thanks for a brilliant review,would the i7 be good for video editing ? I currently use a i5 2014 Mac mini which is ok with iMovie but would love something faster ? I do like having a Mac mini as I have nice monitor key board & mouse
Thanks
this is the best video on mac mini i seen
Weird they don’t have vega.
What connection was used to get two monitors
thank you for that review. it was actually helpful as i'm rebuilding my production studio and was thinking of making the mini my brain. lol
Basically, the right story here. We only bought one because A) we wanted one machine with macOS, B) we don't play any 3D games, and C) our video editing is extremely casual, and we can live with a bit of slow if we ever tried something fancy. Otherwise, the base i5 is nicely future proof.
I'm working in pro audio, a friend got one of these and swears by it. I got one and was... slightly frustrated. After scrolling though the forums, I found the following problems were not just a stroke of bad luck and afflict many MP 2018 users.
...Mine can't even connect to two screens, forget three, with the left screen
turning off about 30% of the time and the right hand screen flickering
black every few minuites(I actually bought it to connect with 3 for a
screen for my vocal booth).
...My Samsung 500gb external SSD causes my mac mini to claim "not enough power for external devices"
...The wifi simply stops working now and again. Yesterday I didn't have any wifi, where my mac pro was connecting no problem at the same position.
Yea...
My friends one is running 3 screens, doing great. Its a lottery product.