Some of you are wondering why I did not include floating/moving platforms in the example of open areas, that is because there are ways and means of closing the gap through either buildings or blowing the platform down. Anyways, I really hope we see some counter buffs in the future rather than nerfing a weapon or spec itself.
I'm curious what counters would you suggest? If they buffed the LH1's effective range people would riot. They actually nerfed it after added the scope i think. I only started playing in season 3 but almost every nerf, buff or rework I've seen seemed somewhat logical. Especially when compared to most FPS games that just leave a weapon broken as a feature for an entire season. I think some of has to do with the fact that medium has so many effective weapons and gadgets right now. I don't want to face a good team of mediums with defibs, demat, pads, a model a pike and a famas. You're right that people will now gravitate towards the famas, model, ak or heaven forbid, they may even try a new class. I'm personally not crazy about the 85% medium lobbies, but I agree that none of these changes will largely affect that.
I see that happening a lot especially on reddit. These devs get things right, but also get things wrong, I feel as a community we have to be honest with our critiques so they don't waste time adjusting the wrongs things. At the end of the day it would be a disservice to them.
dog, send this ish to embark right now. im so sick and tired of the constant nerfs. i just want the gunplay to feel like it did in the beta. pls stop nerfing everything into oblivion and reduce visual recoil, there wasn’t any in the beta and everything felt sooo nice
I really hope they don’t nerf the Famas. I’m getting tired of nerfs in general. It’s hard to love a weapon or loadout you put time and effort into in The Finals.
@ It was actually your Masterclass that got me to try the Famas. While I admit, it took me time and practice to get use to hip firing with it at close range. But soooo satisfying melting down a rushing hammer Heavy coming at you full speed or a dashing sword Light.
Famas is really good. I've been picking it up recently and it really feels amazing, argueably on par with the AKM in my opinion. Still not model-level of broken... But who wants to abuse model?
Pike was broken to play against. It needed to be fixed, but this might've been a bit much. I personally think they should increase the headshot multiplier to really hone in on the "marksman" part of "marksman rifle" and reward good aim, but it could NOT stay in its previous state. Buffing other weapons to bring them in line with the Pike would also mean a drastic decrease in the game's TTK in the long run. I'm all for nerfs if it means keeping this game from turning into a quick-TTK game like CoD.
@@TorqueKMAReducing the mag to 10 and making the rpm 180 from 200 would have been a decent nerf imo. They don’t seem to understand what makes the gun FEEL bad to play against
I get what they tried to do with the sword nerf but it meant nothing, it took me 2 games to get the feel for the new length and that was about it, and people still panic when they get hit since there isn't really a lot of counters when someone jumps in kissing distance and starts hitting you with a deadly stick.
Anytime I bring up how oppressive the sword is, light mains just tell me to "use a glitch trap bro".. because obviously glitch traps are always 100% effective in all situations...
This is the definition of double Standarts. Everyone rejoiced when the sniper was destroyed for no legit reason and now everyone is crying and "the nerfs are getting too much" when the pike, an actually oppressive weapon, gets reluctantly nerfed by the biased devs.
Pretty sure both of you got it wrong, people were mad at the sniper because there realy wasn't any counter play when they sniper was across the map, when for the pike they could've buffed other weapons to counter it but Embark went the nerf route again. We aren't mad pike got nerfed, we are mad that other weapons that needed love weren't buffed to counter pike in the first place
@@aguyontheinternet3530 people cried cus they couldn't figure out how to deal with two snipers on powershift (not that hard Btw). Embark said that both the light and the sniper were far from op, but destroyed the sniper anyway. In the same patch they add the pike. Pike actually is problematic not only in powershift, but every other mode, especially competitive. The devs then "nerf" it and say it will still dominate most matchups. Then they nerf it again, and everyone lost their minds. I would've been happy if they had just made it projectile over 20 meters. Embark set the precedent for that themselves so why not follow it, or reverse the sniper changes if range isn't an actual problem, especially for the class with the most map mobility?
Well people tend to forget this treatment happened to the FCAR, then the Lewis, XP-54, and now the PIKE. A weapon will always be strong if there are no counters to go against it.
While I agree to a point that other weapons should be brought in line with a over performing weapon, not the other way around, it just isn't always a smart idea. That kind of balancing I believe would lead to too many things being strong. Leading the overall feel and things like TTK to become worse. Embark definitely isn't perfect, but they balance better than alot of other popular FPS's. And I'm glad you see the sadness of the pyro change. Literally every piece of heavies defense kit is getting hit and it sucks. People will run pyro more because of this and also worsen the effectiveness of the Goo Gun. There was absolutely no reason for it!
Exactly, the ttk and variety of tactics is what I love about this game, and that it's not a, camp in the corner/hold this line of sight game like cod has become. The nerfs to heavy shields already lowered the ttk enough, making the guns stronger would just ruin things
RIP the pike. I think the 50 dmg light body shot 3 tap was iconic. It just needed a slightly lowered ROF imo, so a light in close range could beam a pike medium before he had time to get the 3 shots off, especially if he missed even once. But nope, pike is gutted.
In order for a light to beam a pyke before the 3rd shot you have to REALLY lower the rpm, meaning it will become an even trashier weapon than what we have now
@ I disagree. In any fair 1v1 with any weapon matchup, light loses because they have so little hp. But pre nerf, even if a light initiated the fight and shot first, the medium could too quickly turn and 3 shot them. With a slight rpm reduction, you force them to be more accurate and give them less time to react to an M11 or sword melting them
@agedgouda8809 we can agree that the ttk against light is stupid low and against medium is second best gun after Model, but as you stated it is an hp problem, its literally its weaponry and hp that makes them non viable, not a gun problem, they already had to nerf mines for lights and nades deal 149, nerfed rpg, etc, but no amount of nerfs would make light viable, its mainly how you fight and engage fights
I would be 100% happy with more stuff getting buffed. I like that they listen to the majority but they need to realize they also need to do what’s best for the game..
I agree with what your saying, if they decide to buff it should be slowly, based off data and closely monitored. Kind of like how they initially nerfed the PIKE.
Nerfs have been getting out of hand since they pummeled heavies gadgets and specializations into the ground. The rpg, dome, winch, AND mesh. I understand that heavies eat well with the deagles. But holy crap does Embark just not like the heavy class. (I would like to mention that I wish the flamethrower would get a buff to its range.)
Rpg and winch nerf was more than justified and needed, dome was a bit overnerfed but you can still use it to win fights easily, mesh was also incredibly overnerfed
Your very welcome. I try to keep my judgments as unbiased as possible and not base it on a particular part of the communities experience, but rather see it in the perspective of the majority.
I think this patch and the pattern of 'fixes' could be bad for the game in the near future. Coming from an emerald 2 who loves the game. The nerfs have been too drastic and too frequent.
Yes, the thing is a weapon will always be strong if it has no counter and its peers and counters are significantly weakened. The FCAR got repeatedly nerfed then the 1887, XP-54, and Lewis started to dominate. The PIKE would be an option rather than the only option if the FCAR, XP-54, Lewis, Mesh and Dome Shield had not been hit as hard.
Unfrotunately, Embark is too out of touch with the competitive/ranked scene in this game. As soon as i reached diamond, i only faced tiple medium stacks running full models. Unfortunately, i quit the game for now, since it's unplayable for anyone who's willing to play competetively. I never wanted to, but i have to join the 'this game will never regain the same momentum' camp. Loved the game, loved the expirience. Hope it thrives one day
The Pike in the long run will either need a large fire rate increase of an increase the headshot multiplier if they don't want to do 50+ body shot damage. No one is going to pick a weapon that is only as or more effective then all other alternatives at 35+ meters. Just use the FAMAS.
@@HazedNConfusedwell, no not really. Nerfs aren't inherently bad and buffs aren't inherently good either. For instance, if they nerfed the defibs more and/or rework how healing teammates work, that would be a good thing and would actually open up a lot more loadouts
@@comradeoctober2836bro on what are you about, famas barely has recoil, its very easy to use, you just have to adjust to the ironsights or the acog whichever you prefer, but its a very accurate AR
While i agree with too many nerfs being a bad thing for a game, i think these nerfs are warranted in these cases. The pike feels good imo, if you re too close you ll lose, as you should, and it s still powerful mid to long range. It s not broken anymore
Another absolutley inconsequential nerf to light, and more kicking heavy while he's down. I frequently go a couple of matches without ever seeing another heavy in a lobby...
I really wish Embark fixes a glitch where holding down shift during while hip-firing reduces your accuracy despite not being able to sprint... A skill issue that can screw up accuracy (Deagles, K23, for example) *a lot*
It's not even about how many nerfs occur, but also the nonsensical way Embark nerfs weapons. The pike could have easily had its close range effectiveness nerfed by increasing hipfire spread instead of reworking its entire damage model. CL-40 got the same treatment, all they needed to do was reduce its max damage range and slighly raise its self damage. Now it's easily outdamaged at medium range and you'll nuke yourself at close range. I'm slowly being convinced that the dev team is biased towards lights. Anything that threatens their damage output gets nerfed, while light nerfs are usually a slap on the wrist. I'm honestly surprised the model wasn't gutted last week.
Honestly I feel like the balance in the game is ok for the most part but I would love some more buffs instead of nerfs. The thing with the Pike is that it's a pretty awkward weapon to balance around though imo. Not only is it competing with the Famas as you mentioned, but it's also competing with the revolver as well. Before the nerf the Pike basically invalidated the revolver imo so it definitely needed a change, so does the revolver tbf, but I wish they went about it in a different way. Maybe keep the high damage and low falloff but lower the firerate IDK, we'll see how it turns out and adjust from there.
I have conflicting feelings about this. I agree that constant nerfs can end up putting the game into a not so great state. But embark doesn’t just balance based on what community says, but also in game data. And if there’s a weapon (like the pike) which is simply out performing every other weapon then surely it’s a safer bet to nerf it than buff every other weapon of that class to make it preform at a comparable level. And if you didn’t buff every weapon and only a few, then you essentially end up in the same situation but instead of 1 dominant weapon it’s 2 or maybe 3. Buffs absolutely need to happen, but shouldn’t be rushed and should understandably (I think) be saved for new season level updates. Otherwise you end up in a lh1 situation where it gets over buffed then mega nerfed to correct it and ends up being arguably worse than pre-buff.
If model and sword were deleted from the game it would be a thousand times more fun, this game is at its best without massive burst damage that insta kills you
I get balancing is a nightmare for any dev that works on multiplayer games, and that catering to the needs of players based on feedback is just as much so. But at one point nerfing weapons till the point that untouched/more obscure options get pushed into the meta kinda... sucks? I kind of liked when weapons were more lethal and my opponents also had more than lethal options to just dunk on my ass and i could do the same to them. Now it feels like if I dont run a certain loadout/weapon, im just at a huge disadvantage. I just wish they went the other way, where rather than nerfing various things they could inch weapons back towards more buffs. Thats just my piece though
the only thing that was good about season 3 was the fact that the XP-54 was the smoothest and the most consistent gun if you had good aim and tracking ability it so much fun now they ruined it😮💨
On my ranked Gold lobbies I see a lot of mediums (like 50-80% of all players) with Model and AKM and then more rarely other classes or mediums with Pike, Famas, FCAR and Revolver. These balance changes won't really change that. Maybe a nerf to defibs is needed and also slight general buffs to heavies and lights in general.
personally, outside of pike issues, i think there should be more focus on the lower end of weapons and gadgets. buffing everything causes the focal point of balance to be lost, and risk a loss of the flow of the game. and, either way, there's too many weapons nobody would ever use seriously. if you bring up more lower-end items to usability, naturally, less people spam the single best option and start branching out. from there, its not as big a deal if the pike gets a bit of a hit after still being dominant. its a lot better than buffing a small subset of counters and now its only a handful of viable playstyles. tbh though, i just want ks23 to have knockback and one less bullet for destruction...
I 110% agree. I get it’s more of a rifle.. so naturally medium to long range is what it’s meant for, but if your going to reduce its close range, why not do that as well to the lights sniper? It’s odd.. totally understand that it was a pretty strong weapon to begin with, but it doesn’t even feel balanced anymore.. I’d much rather use the famas now. Or simply hop on a light build and use a sniper.. idk. It’s disappointing.
I agree. It made no difference, only thing it succeeded in doing was inconveniencing and handicapping sword mains. The thing is, sword does take skill to master. I can easily kill a newbie to average player running sword and dash. However a skilled player is incredibly hard to counter. If I die to one I'll move and acknowledge I got outplayed.
I see where your coming from. However the reason why these weapons feel stronger is because it's peers have been significantly weakened. When you nerf one weapon, there will always be an outlier left behind such as the FAMAS. When that inevitably starts to stand out, it will be next on the chopping block thus making the cycle continue.
Dash in general just needed a nerf. Not the sword or the pike. Its hard af to use the sword without dash and the pike is really bad up close now. I thought it was in a better spot before the nerf but now you have to be set up to use and it cannot compete on wim battles that get chaotic
Great points, should they keep nerfing things, I feel as though we’ll have a helldivers 2 situation on our hands where they’re gonna need to start buffing things again on a pretty large scale, with the way things are going I’m beginning to think my favorite weapons are just gonna end up getting downgraded eventually, why not be excited for other weapons on either my own or any class?
For sure, I really wish they applied a buff in a similar fashion to how they nerfed the PIKE at first. Slightly buff an aspect of it, then closely monitor it and adjust it on a week to biweekly basis.
I definitely get what your saying, however there are other weapons that can kill a light faster from a great distance. I'd rather them provide more ways for lights to counter and defend themselves.
As a player since CB1 the medium class has had some of the most broken/ease of use weapons/abilitys. The class is way to strong as of season 4. Nerfs are needed more then buffs imo
For the nerfs in the patch I disagree because the pike in good hands had ar dps in close range but could shoot further with a scope for headshots and on a "support class" that is a bit much. But I do want embark to focus more on buffs after this because while the heavy nerfs besides maybe mesh are justifiable imo especially for high ranks I do want the weaker options on the classes to recieve buffs to create more competition and diversity in playstyles. Pike is nerf good so ars are actually viable, sword nerf idk honestly but I think it's fine as it is since it's basically just prebuff sword now and lights are the least of my concerns in ranked for having 1 oppressive option since the class as a whole struggles regardless, and I think the heavy nerfs are justified for high elo and the best players besides maybe mesh but I do understand the frustration with dome and mesh because even though good players can make them oppressive it requires teamates that know how to enable themselves off of you and requires near perfect timing for domes to get any use which leads players to struggle getting better with heavy who don't main the class or dump tons of hours into the game leading to people simutaniously being extremely frustrated against good heavies and feeling weak when playing it themselves. I hope other options get buffed not just for diversity but (especially on heavy) to give players an easier introduction to the class that makes then feel viable and competant. Idk a single game where the tank role has ever been balanced in a way that the tanks feel happy playing and the enemy feels unfairly punished playing against.
people just like to be OP, simple as that, no one likes being stripped of their power, but when it deletes fun for the majority, the nerfs are still better for the health of the game , there isn't a single online PvP game that hasn't seen nerfs, and even nerfing things to the ground for the sole purpose of changing the meta around to make the game feel more fresh.
After cretin Embarks made lots of kill nerfs to heavy - i abondoned this piece of garbage In Crossout we had simmular problem - heavy stuff was nerfed in to ground for lots of years and recently (like 6 month or 1 year became mid playable) but light stuff are ultra op and dominate in game from the beginning of open beta test and only afeter 7 freakin years lights recieve nerf they deserved!
riot shield too, honestly those weapons stand no chance against sword right now. i think all the other melee weapons are fine against sword right now except the medium ones
Sword mains will adapt. It just reduced how many scenarios you will have where light kills you easily. However I don’t think it will change THAT much for sword mains
I'm already seeing people gravitate towards the Famas instead of the Pike. Not sure how to feel about the sword changes since I don't play Light and hate playing against sword users.
I have taken the time to master sword and this nerf is frustrating because the sword was always a high risk high reward and the risk was that you have to get up close to other people who’s weapons out dps the sword as well as there are several hard counters like stun gun, sledge hammer, and flame thrower(usually trade) now the weapon feels frustrating to use because you are always just out of reach
This is why the game will fail, is failing slowly!!! I play since season 1 and I only ever meet emerald players and sweats now. You know why? Because no casual player has the time or dedication to learn to put a whole magazine into a moving target for a kill!!! And don't get me started about ranked, I could easily get to platinum 1 on season 2 as solo quer in 1 MONTH but now I'm stuck in gold? Because there are only 3 stacks there and I'm not Hazed that I'd be able to decimate whole teams alone. This is in European matchmaking for reference I don't know how it is in other regions.
This game needThis game needs a total rework of Tracking Dart and Thermal Vision. These gadgets are simply useless! And Thermal Vision, on some maps becomes more than useless, with it you just can't see anything!
adding Snipers and Marksman rifles to The Finals was a mistake imo, the game shines in those team brawl situations where teams are fighting close-to-mid range... I hate being killed to end up spectating a Light Sniper or Medium Marksman on my team sitting in the back and missing all their shots
embark adjusts based on in game data, remember that hazed. that being said, the fcar should be brought back in line with the other assault rifles. i find myself on both sides of the field, i much welcome these MUCH needed nerfs but also want some buffs. remember we don't see the data, we just play the game.
Yes, I totally get that. Its not that I don’t trust the reasoning as to why they made the change, but rather how they got to their desired goal. For instance with the defib they did not want to out right nerf it, but solve the issue via counter play. I hoped that they would of applied that same philosophy for the weapons rather than nerfing it.
Thats very interesting, is it possible for you to source it to me? Also if that is the case, what is their definition of a high TTK. Is there goal for it to be like Apex or something a little higher than COD. Without a clear vision of their goal, a lot of this speculation will continue. Either way is fine to me, I just think as a community its good to set healthy expectations.
Some of you are wondering why I did not include floating/moving platforms in the example of open areas, that is because there are ways and means of closing the gap through either buildings or blowing the platform down. Anyways, I really hope we see some counter buffs in the future rather than nerfing a weapon or spec itself.
I'm curious what counters would you suggest? If they buffed the LH1's effective range people would riot. They actually nerfed it after added the scope i think. I only started playing in season 3 but almost every nerf, buff or rework I've seen seemed somewhat logical. Especially when compared to most FPS games that just leave a weapon broken as a feature for an entire season. I think some of has to do with the fact that medium has so many effective weapons and gadgets right now. I don't want to face a good team of mediums with defibs, demat, pads, a model a pike and a famas. You're right that people will now gravitate towards the famas, model, ak or heaven forbid, they may even try a new class. I'm personally not crazy about the 85% medium lobbies, but I agree that none of these changes will largely affect that.
Sure but the devs get rewarded by the community every time they "listen to the community" chich is creating a reinforced feedback loop
Say it louder for those in the back
I see that happening a lot especially on reddit. These devs get things right, but also get things wrong, I feel as a community we have to be honest with our critiques so they don't waste time adjusting the wrongs things. At the end of the day it would be a disservice to them.
If the community is full of casuals then they should nerf every weapon.
dog, send this ish to embark right now. im so sick and tired of the constant nerfs. i just want the gunplay to feel like it did in the beta. pls stop nerfing everything into oblivion and reduce visual recoil, there wasn’t any in the beta and everything felt sooo nice
I really hope they don’t nerf the Famas. I’m getting tired of nerfs in general. It’s hard to love a weapon or loadout you put time and effort into in The Finals.
Same here. :(
@ It was actually your Masterclass that got me to try the Famas. While I admit, it took me time and practice to get use to hip firing with it at close range. But soooo satisfying melting down a rushing hammer Heavy coming at you full speed or a dashing sword Light.
Famas is really good. I've been picking it up recently and it really feels amazing, argueably on par with the AKM in my opinion. Still not model-level of broken... But who wants to abuse model?
🙂i know cl40 was beautiful till it lasted now i need to shoot 4 shot again on a heavy🥲 while he comes running towards me like thomas the tank engine
Pike was broken to play against. It needed to be fixed, but this might've been a bit much. I personally think they should increase the headshot multiplier to really hone in on the "marksman" part of "marksman rifle" and reward good aim, but it could NOT stay in its previous state. Buffing other weapons to bring them in line with the Pike would also mean a drastic decrease in the game's TTK in the long run. I'm all for nerfs if it means keeping this game from turning into a quick-TTK game like CoD.
I dont really understand why firing rate isn't the stat they are targeting. The gun is nasty up close because it's not punishing enough if you miss
Did they nerf the Pike again??Everyone was rocking it early seasons and after the first nerf I rarely saw anyone using it. So no need I’d say right?
@@TorqueKMAReducing the mag to 10 and making the rpm 180 from 200 would have been a decent nerf imo. They don’t seem to understand what makes the gun FEEL bad to play against
It had a long ttk in beta, now its obnoxiously long
@@sSteppingStones ohhh man, I’ve not tried it yet with the latest nerf but that is my go to gun now, hopefully it can still compete in the meta.
I get what they tried to do with the sword nerf but it meant nothing, it took me 2 games to get the feel for the new length and that was about it, and people still panic when they get hit since there isn't really a lot of counters when someone jumps in kissing distance and starts hitting you with a deadly stick.
based profile pic
Agreed.
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Anytime I bring up how oppressive the sword is, light mains just tell me to "use a glitch trap bro".. because obviously glitch traps are always 100% effective in all situations...
This is the definition of double Standarts. Everyone rejoiced when the sniper was destroyed for no legit reason and now everyone is crying and "the nerfs are getting too much" when the pike, an actually oppressive weapon, gets reluctantly nerfed by the biased devs.
I never played the sniper but I also felt the nerf was too much.
Pretty sure both of you got it wrong, people were mad at the sniper because there realy wasn't any counter play when they sniper was across the map, when for the pike they could've buffed other weapons to counter it but Embark went the nerf route again. We aren't mad pike got nerfed, we are mad that other weapons that needed love weren't buffed to counter pike in the first place
@@aguyontheinternet3530 people cried cus they couldn't figure out how to deal with two snipers on powershift (not that hard Btw). Embark said that both the light and the sniper were far from op, but destroyed the sniper anyway. In the same patch they add the pike. Pike actually is problematic not only in powershift, but every other mode, especially competitive. The devs then "nerf" it and say it will still dominate most matchups. Then they nerf it again, and everyone lost their minds.
I would've been happy if they had just made it projectile over 20 meters. Embark set the precedent for that themselves so why not follow it, or reverse the sniper changes if range isn't an actual problem, especially for the class with the most map mobility?
Fr I played the pike after the update and it’s still quite good, dropped a couple 12+ kills rounds
@gnhatch almost as if it might be close to a good and balanced state rn. Wild.
This is how I feel about Fcar
Well people tend to forget this treatment happened to the FCAR, then the Lewis, XP-54, and now the PIKE. A weapon will always be strong if there are no counters to go against it.
While I agree to a point that other weapons should be brought in line with a over performing weapon, not the other way around, it just isn't always a smart idea. That kind of balancing I believe would lead to too many things being strong. Leading the overall feel and things like TTK to become worse. Embark definitely isn't perfect, but they balance better than alot of other popular FPS's. And I'm glad you see the sadness of the pyro change. Literally every piece of heavies defense kit is getting hit and it sucks. People will run pyro more because of this and also worsen the effectiveness of the Goo Gun. There was absolutely no reason for it!
Exactly, the ttk and variety of tactics is what I love about this game, and that it's not a, camp in the corner/hold this line of sight game like cod has become.
The nerfs to heavy shields already lowered the ttk enough, making the guns stronger would just ruin things
RIP the pike. I think the 50 dmg light body shot 3 tap was iconic. It just needed a slightly lowered ROF imo, so a light in close range could beam a pike medium before he had time to get the 3 shots off, especially if he missed even once. But nope, pike is gutted.
In order for a light to beam a pyke before the 3rd shot you have to REALLY lower the rpm, meaning it will become an even trashier weapon than what we have now
@ I disagree. In any fair 1v1 with any weapon matchup, light loses because they have so little hp. But pre nerf, even if a light initiated the fight and shot first, the medium could too quickly turn and 3 shot them. With a slight rpm reduction, you force them to be more accurate and give them less time to react to an M11 or sword melting them
@agedgouda8809 we can agree that the ttk against light is stupid low and against medium is second best gun after Model, but as you stated it is an hp problem, its literally its weaponry and hp that makes them non viable, not a gun problem, they already had to nerf mines for lights and nades deal 149, nerfed rpg, etc, but no amount of nerfs would make light viable, its mainly how you fight and engage fights
I would be 100% happy with more stuff getting buffed. I like that they listen to the majority but they need to realize they also need to do what’s best for the game..
I agree with what your saying, if they decide to buff it should be slowly, based off data and closely monitored. Kind of like how they initially nerfed the PIKE.
More like a vocal minority, refit is just a massive eco chamber
Nerfs have been getting out of hand since they pummeled heavies gadgets and specializations into the ground. The rpg, dome, winch, AND mesh. I understand that heavies eat well with the deagles. But holy crap does Embark just not like the heavy class. (I would like to mention that I wish the flamethrower would get a buff to its range.)
Yea, with these changes its going to push more and more people to charge and slam.
Its funny how some people say that heavy was super op and light was useless from the beginning of project 🤡
Rpg and winch nerf was more than justified and needed, dome was a bit overnerfed but you can still use it to win fights easily, mesh was also incredibly overnerfed
Thanks for putting this out! These nerfs are getting way out of hand and is making the game much less enjoyable to play.
Your very welcome. I try to keep my judgments as unbiased as possible and not base it on a particular part of the communities experience, but rather see it in the perspective of the majority.
I think this patch and the pattern of 'fixes' could be bad for the game in the near future. Coming from an emerald 2 who loves the game. The nerfs have been too drastic and too frequent.
Yes, the thing is a weapon will always be strong if it has no counter and its peers and counters are significantly weakened. The FCAR got repeatedly nerfed then the 1887, XP-54, and Lewis started to dominate. The PIKE would be an option rather than the only option if the FCAR, XP-54, Lewis, Mesh and Dome Shield had not been hit as hard.
Unfrotunately, Embark is too out of touch with the competitive/ranked scene in this game. As soon as i reached diamond, i only faced tiple medium stacks running full models. Unfortunately, i quit the game for now, since it's unplayable for anyone who's willing to play competetively. I never wanted to, but i have to join the 'this game will never regain the same momentum' camp. Loved the game, loved the expirience. Hope it thrives one day
The Pike in the long run will either need a large fire rate increase of an increase the headshot multiplier if they don't want to do 50+ body shot damage. No one is going to pick a weapon that is only as or more effective then all other alternatives at 35+ meters. Just use the FAMAS.
I'm about to only use famas and model
Exactly. The more nerfs, the less variety a player has to become as effective as possible.
@@D0P3ST it sucks too because I hate the recoil famas has. I mean pike is worse but by slowing down just very slightly pike recoil is a non issue
@@HazedNConfusedwell, no not really. Nerfs aren't inherently bad and buffs aren't inherently good either. For instance, if they nerfed the defibs more and/or rework how healing teammates work, that would be a good thing and would actually open up a lot more loadouts
@@comradeoctober2836bro on what are you about, famas barely has recoil, its very easy to use, you just have to adjust to the ironsights or the acog whichever you prefer, but its a very accurate AR
While i agree with too many nerfs being a bad thing for a game, i think these nerfs are warranted in these cases. The pike feels good imo, if you re too close you ll lose, as you should, and it s still powerful mid to long range. It s not broken anymore
Another absolutley inconsequential nerf to light, and more kicking heavy while he's down. I frequently go a couple of matches without ever seeing another heavy in a lobby...
No you dont understand....heavy is super op and it needs more nerfs 🤣🤣🤣
BuT bUt ChArgE n SlAm iS OP 🥴
Two heavys on a squad is automatic win
I really wish Embark fixes a glitch where holding down shift during while hip-firing reduces your accuracy despite not being able to sprint...
A skill issue that can screw up accuracy (Deagles, K23, for example) *a lot*
It's not even about how many nerfs occur, but also the nonsensical way Embark nerfs weapons. The pike could have easily had its close range effectiveness nerfed by increasing hipfire spread instead of reworking its entire damage model.
CL-40 got the same treatment, all they needed to do was reduce its max damage range and slighly raise its self damage. Now it's easily outdamaged at medium range and you'll nuke yourself at close range.
I'm slowly being convinced that the dev team is biased towards lights. Anything that threatens their damage output gets nerfed, while light nerfs are usually a slap on the wrist. I'm honestly surprised the model wasn't gutted last week.
Honestly I feel like the balance in the game is ok for the most part but I would love some more buffs instead of nerfs. The thing with the Pike is that it's a pretty awkward weapon to balance around though imo. Not only is it competing with the Famas as you mentioned, but it's also competing with the revolver as well. Before the nerf the Pike basically invalidated the revolver imo so it definitely needed a change, so does the revolver tbf, but I wish they went about it in a different way. Maybe keep the high damage and low falloff but lower the firerate IDK, we'll see how it turns out and adjust from there.
i always thought they should make the pike "lh1 but for med" with slightly reduce damage since med have 250 health and lights have 150
Fair points, mate.
I like that Embark avoids power creep
I do appreciate it as well, I just hope that they don't cross the line of hurting a weapons feel in the pursuit of perfect balance.
I have conflicting feelings about this. I agree that constant nerfs can end up putting the game into a not so great state.
But embark doesn’t just balance based on what community says, but also in game data. And if there’s a weapon (like the pike) which is simply out performing every other weapon then surely it’s a safer bet to nerf it than buff every other weapon of that class to make it preform at a comparable level. And if you didn’t buff every weapon and only a few, then you essentially end up in the same situation but instead of 1 dominant weapon it’s 2 or maybe 3.
Buffs absolutely need to happen, but shouldn’t be rushed and should understandably (I think) be saved for new season level updates. Otherwise you end up in a lh1 situation where it gets over buffed then mega nerfed to correct it and ends up being arguably worse than pre-buff.
If model and sword were deleted from the game it would be a thousand times more fun, this game is at its best without massive burst damage that insta kills you
sword has an extremely high ttk. unless ur a light, but light 1v1s are always settled by massive burst damage
Sword and model are only 'OP' because all the other weapons gpt nerfed
I get balancing is a nightmare for any dev that works on multiplayer games, and that catering to the needs of players based on feedback is just as much so. But at one point nerfing weapons till the point that untouched/more obscure options get pushed into the meta kinda... sucks? I kind of liked when weapons were more lethal and my opponents also had more than lethal options to just dunk on my ass and i could do the same to them. Now it feels like if I dont run a certain loadout/weapon, im just at a huge disadvantage. I just wish they went the other way, where rather than nerfing various things they could inch weapons back towards more buffs. Thats just my piece though
the only thing that was good about season 3 was the fact that the XP-54 was the smoothest and the most consistent gun if you had good aim and tracking ability it so much fun now they ruined it😮💨
When are they gonna nerf the famas HOLY ITS SO OP
Thats what I’m saying lol. The FAMAS has changed minimally since release and now since its peers have been nerfed, it has now become the outlier.
@ I hate reddit 🙏
lol bro just don't want his gun to get nerfed
@@exmita6805 lol I actually don’t prefer the PIKE because I could get the same result more consistently with the FAMAS.
Game feels ultra bullet spongy now.
1:40 bro the Famas be messing up in milliseconds
@@4eeyore266 But but but tHe PiKe iS OP
On my ranked Gold lobbies I see a lot of mediums (like 50-80% of all players) with Model and AKM and then more rarely other classes or mediums with Pike, Famas, FCAR and Revolver. These balance changes won't really change that. Maybe a nerf to defibs is needed and also slight general buffs to heavies and lights in general.
Heavy does not need a buff
2:08 I showed up in your video! Lucky :D
Niceee, it was a pleasure!
Pike got what it deserved.
Can we please juice up my fcar again, theres no reason to use it anymore
Ahhhh I wouldn't say that, but it is definitely not as strong as the FAMAS atm.
personally, outside of pike issues, i think there should be more focus on the lower end of weapons and gadgets. buffing everything causes the focal point of balance to be lost, and risk a loss of the flow of the game. and, either way, there's too many weapons nobody would ever use seriously. if you bring up more lower-end items to usability, naturally, less people spam the single best option and start branching out. from there, its not as big a deal if the pike gets a bit of a hit after still being dominant. its a lot better than buffing a small subset of counters and now its only a handful of viable playstyles.
tbh though, i just want ks23 to have knockback and one less bullet for destruction...
It's undeniable. WE NEED BUFFS
i gotta agree with this i really felt a loss in the armory with the xp54 nerf
I 110% agree. I get it’s more of a rifle.. so naturally medium to long range is what it’s meant for, but if your going to reduce its close range, why not do that as well to the lights sniper? It’s odd.. totally understand that it was a pretty strong weapon to begin with, but it doesn’t even feel balanced anymore.. I’d much rather use the famas now. Or simply hop on a light build and use a sniper.. idk. It’s disappointing.
Sword definitely didn't need the change
I agree. It made no difference, only thing it succeeded in doing was inconveniencing and handicapping sword mains. The thing is, sword does take skill to master. I can easily kill a newbie to average player running sword and dash. However a skilled player is incredibly hard to counter. If I die to one I'll move and acknowledge I got outplayed.
Stun gun is a hard counter to sword@@HazedNConfused
@@sSteppingStones Stun gun is so annoying all around 😑
We don’t need to buff other stuff just cuz 1 or 2 guns feel strong
I see where your coming from. However the reason why these weapons feel stronger is because it's peers have been significantly weakened. When you nerf one weapon, there will always be an outlier left behind such as the FAMAS. When that inevitably starts to stand out, it will be next on the chopping block thus making the cycle continue.
Dash in general just needed a nerf. Not the sword or the pike. Its hard af to use the sword without dash and the pike is really bad up close now. I thought it was in a better spot before the nerf but now you have to be set up to use and it cannot compete on wim battles that get chaotic
Great points, should they keep nerfing things, I feel as though we’ll have a helldivers 2 situation on our hands where they’re gonna need to start buffing things again on a pretty large scale, with the way things are going I’m beginning to think my favorite weapons are just gonna end up getting downgraded eventually, why not be excited for other weapons on either my own or any class?
For sure, I really wish they applied a buff in a similar fashion to how they nerfed the PIKE at first. Slightly buff an aspect of it, then closely monitor it and adjust it on a week to biweekly basis.
idk, i think 2/3 shoots lights is wild
I definitely get what your saying, however there are other weapons that can kill a light faster from a great distance. I'd rather them provide more ways for lights to counter and defend themselves.
As a player since CB1 the medium class has had some of the most broken/ease of use weapons/abilitys. The class is way to strong as of season 4. Nerfs are needed more then buffs imo
For the nerfs in the patch I disagree because the pike in good hands had ar dps in close range but could shoot further with a scope for headshots and on a "support class" that is a bit much. But I do want embark to focus more on buffs after this because while the heavy nerfs besides maybe mesh are justifiable imo especially for high ranks I do want the weaker options on the classes to recieve buffs to create more competition and diversity in playstyles. Pike is nerf good so ars are actually viable, sword nerf idk honestly but I think it's fine as it is since it's basically just prebuff sword now and lights are the least of my concerns in ranked for having 1 oppressive option since the class as a whole struggles regardless, and I think the heavy nerfs are justified for high elo and the best players besides maybe mesh but I do understand the frustration with dome and mesh because even though good players can make them oppressive it requires teamates that know how to enable themselves off of you and requires near perfect timing for domes to get any use which leads players to struggle getting better with heavy who don't main the class or dump tons of hours into the game leading to people simutaniously being extremely frustrated against good heavies and feeling weak when playing it themselves. I hope other options get buffed not just for diversity but (especially on heavy) to give players an easier introduction to the class that makes then feel viable and competant. Idk a single game where the tank role has ever been balanced in a way that the tanks feel happy playing and the enemy feels unfairly punished playing against.
Agree !
Not getting out of hand. Buffs reduce TTK (a bad thing), while nerfs increase TTK (a good thing).
people just like to be OP, simple as that, no one likes being stripped of their power, but when it deletes fun for the majority, the nerfs are still better for the health of the game , there isn't a single online PvP game that hasn't seen nerfs, and even nerfing things to the ground for the sole purpose of changing the meta around to make the game feel more fresh.
After cretin Embarks made lots of kill nerfs to heavy - i abondoned this piece of garbage
In Crossout we had simmular problem - heavy stuff was nerfed in to ground for lots of years and recently (like 6 month or 1 year became mid playable) but light stuff are ultra op and dominate in game from the beginning of open beta test and only afeter 7 freakin years lights recieve nerf they deserved!
I hope the dev team sees this video. They seriously have to stop destroying the guns feel and performance to balance the game that logic is so flawed.
I wish dual blades could block the sword lunge honestly.
riot shield too, honestly those weapons stand no chance against sword right now. i think all the other melee weapons are fine against sword right now except the medium ones
nerf turrets
🛌
Well it is annoying AF to have to pick it back up after laying it down.
They are annoying, but turret is the worst specialization out of 3 that medium has
to buff every weapon in the game to make it so the pike isnt the only viable weapon because of how insanely overtuned it is or to nerf the pike
when do we ever get any buffs man this is insane
This guy is on point
Probably absurd take, would be nice to switch classes/builds in game.
Faster then Fortnite slower than Rainbow 6 kill time
Truueee
Sword did not deserve that
Ong it sucks now
I agree and I don't even main swords.
Sword mains will adapt. It just reduced how many scenarios you will have where light kills you easily. However I don’t think it will change THAT much for sword mains
@ it feels awful but yea once I get used to the 1mm dash it should still be roughly the same
Nether did sniper
please don't touch the famas I love jt
I'm already seeing people gravitate towards the Famas instead of the Pike. Not sure how to feel about the sword changes since I don't play Light and hate playing against sword users.
I have taken the time to master sword and this nerf is frustrating because the sword was always a high risk high reward and the risk was that you have to get up close to other people who’s weapons out dps the sword as well as there are several hard counters like stun gun, sledge hammer, and flame thrower(usually trade) now the weapon feels frustrating to use because you are always just out of reach
This is why the game will fail, is failing slowly!!! I play since season 1 and I only ever meet emerald players and sweats now. You know why? Because no casual player has the time or dedication to learn to put a whole magazine into a moving target for a kill!!! And don't get me started about ranked, I could easily get to platinum 1 on season 2 as solo quer in 1 MONTH but now I'm stuck in gold? Because there are only 3 stacks there and I'm not Hazed that I'd be able to decimate whole teams alone. This is in European matchmaking for reference I don't know how it is in other regions.
heal beam and pike both needed nerf sword i dont think changes much anyway
This game needThis game needs a total rework of Tracking Dart and Thermal Vision. These gadgets are simply useless! And Thermal Vision, on some maps becomes more than useless, with it you just can't see anything!
Tracking dart is actually quite good
adding Snipers and Marksman rifles to The Finals was a mistake imo, the game shines in those team brawl situations where teams are fighting close-to-mid range... I hate being killed to end up spectating a Light Sniper or Medium Marksman on my team sitting in the back and missing all their shots
Damn im early
Very early, I thought I fell off 🤣
embark adjusts based on in game data, remember that hazed. that being said, the fcar should be brought back in line with the other assault rifles. i find myself on both sides of the field, i much welcome these MUCH needed nerfs but also want some buffs. remember we don't see the data, we just play the game.
Yes, I totally get that. Its not that I don’t trust the reasoning as to why they made the change, but rather how they got to their desired goal. For instance with the defib they did not want to out right nerf it, but solve the issue via counter play. I hoped that they would of applied that same philosophy for the weapons rather than nerfing it.
No, embark has stated they want high ttk
Thats very interesting, is it possible for you to source it to me? Also if that is the case, what is their definition of a high TTK. Is there goal for it to be like Apex or something a little higher than COD. Without a clear vision of their goal, a lot of this speculation will continue. Either way is fine to me, I just think as a community its good to set healthy expectations.
Riot shield did not need a buf
What about all 5 of the riot shield mains 🥹