Depends on him being a mystic horrormaker or a con-artist. ''It is working! Soon the gods shall die!!'' or ''Holy shit. They are buying it... I can't believe. How the hell can they be that stupid.''
I love that Jon chapter in Winds. It shows us unequivocally just how biased the POVs are. Jon observes why Sam changes the subject in a way that doesn’t come through in Sam’s Feast POV. It shows us just how skewed other POV chapters might be
These major re-writes show that many of the estimates that some experts make about George's writing rates are mulch. George writes (often near complete) chapters & sequences but then dumps months of work. Sure he recycles some of it, but this is the "gardening" process in action. It is ruthless & ultimately incredibly frustrating for the gardener. I wonder if seeing these drscriptions of George's process has caused Preston to re-evaluate his previous comments regarding George's level of effort?
You don't realize how good you 2 are till you listen to another podcast. I wish you guys would do more podcasts, carmine has grown on me, and you guys play off each other so well
Carmine is surprisingly great at facilitating these podcasts. He finds guests, moderates chat, sparks conversations, gives context on topics and past conversations, etc. He may not talk the most, but he does a great job keeping things running smoothly
@@PainCausingSamurai Carmine is the Kevan Lannister of podcasters. Once you know how important he is, if you take him away from these you realise the whole thing falls apart.
"A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly." Tbh I thought that was Aeron during the end of the Forsaken chapter.
I had the same thought, but I don't think Aeron is standing. He's tied to the prow, which I've always imagined meaning his feet are dangling on empty air.
Outside River Run, a camp follower Jaime meets has possession of Robb's crown. Later, Lady Stoneheart has regained possession of it. Along with Tom 'O Sevens, this implies that the Brotherhood is employing small folk as agents in enemy armies, which supports the idea that Hilda is spying on the Brackens.
I have to disagree with Preston on Dany III not adding anything to the story. I vividly remember reading Xaro's monologue to Daenerys about how slavery is a necessary evil for greatness and perfection. It was an eloquent speech to which even Daenerys doesn't have a good response besides saying that she disagrees with him. For us readers it is so obvious that Dany is in the right with her aim to abolish slavery that I think it was necessary to present a strong counter argument. And it had to come from someone who is at least somewhat trustworthy, like Xaro, and not some comically evil slaver like most of them are. Xaro pointing out to Dany that there are people in her city begging to be sold back into slavery because their lives have become drastically worse and Dany actually giving in and allowing people to become slaves if they do so voluntarily was a very powerful scene, illustrating how Dany's revolutionary tendencies have big knock-on effects that leave behind some of the very people she is purportedly trying to help. I sure remember for a second almost being convinced by Xaro that slavery was actually good lol. Brilliant writing by George and I wouldn‘t want to miss it!
So i guess the original plan for kevan was to have stoneheart kill him? It still lines up as a shock to close the book, but at different hands. Maybe it felt too repetitious after ASOS’ ending, hence the change.
The implication might be that the Kevan epilogue with Varys killing him would be replaced with a Pycelle POV, which would be a very interesting perspective.
"Kraken and crow" - Any evidence that Sam, a crow, was ever planned to go with Marwyn to Slaver's Bay? Could be Samwell instead of Euron in the unpublished version...
@@KabbalahSherry good point. maybe he could have figured out stuff about dragons and accidentally helped quentyn, victarion, brown ben, or someone get a dragon. I have no clue lol
Sam meeting Dany. There’s a thought. That would very funny. It would probably happen like this: Euron sacks old town and takes nobles hostage from the citadel and high tower, Sam is amongst them. He is kept on an Ironborn ship as a servant because of his ability to read and handle the ravens.
The bit about Jon stabbing Dany makes so much sense. As much as we can rightfully complain about Dan & Dave, it makes no sense that one of the final scenes would have been something they concocted out of whole cloth. If GRRM changes this, it goes against what he has said in the past about not altering his story as people figure it out. We’ll see I guess.
Regarding the locusts. It's possible Belwas was going to be poisoned by another means in another scene, but George decided to make the locusts poisoned for time efficiency.
The locusts not being in the original draft is a pretty huge revelation because if it was supposed to be an important event upon which the rest of the events in Meereen rest, it would have been there. That it was a late addition really makes me reevaluate how important that’s actually meant to be for the story if George didn’t think it was a key event of the story while writing it the first time around.
@@shadow_realm47 While that was true under Tywin, the exchange between him and Cersei later he does bring up he has a sizeable nest egg and the loyalty of a number of men when arguing with her. While Cersei is written in such a way that it certainly makes her come across as paranoid, this still does come off as a threat on his part not to push him too far.
I think my hang ups with Danny chapters in dance is the complete change in her actions. She was moving and shaking things up all the way up till dance. Then her chapters turn into a deep dive into politics with little pay off. George is great at mixing politics, drama, and story moving actions into the story (note kat and cerci) but Danny just sits there while things happen to "her" team. She talks but I feel if her words were not there everything would still happen. Also chapter 3 is my favorite of the Danny chapters lol.
I feel like I'm the only one who thinks this but... "Beware the Perfumed Seneshal" is probably about Varus. Cuz Dany already HAS one of those in Mereen at the time that Quaithe gives this prophecy. But her prophecy is about people who WILL BE arriving to meet Dany. 😏 I think Reznack is a red herring. I think the person Dany needs to worry about is Varus. Because as we can deduce (thanks to the show anyway), Varus will meet Dany & be a friend to her... at first. But it won't stay that way. Something will happen, and Varus will end up trading sides. Probably to aide Faegon. So I really think it's referring to him & his eventual betrayal.
@@alishamarieh.1519 “He accuses my brother and sister of incest. I wonder how he came by that suspicion.” “Perhaps he read a book and looked at the color of a bastard’s hair, as Ned Stark did, and Jon Arryn before him. Or perhaps someone whispered it in his ear.” The eunuch’s laugh was not his usual giggle, but deeper and more throaty. Varys was cut at a young age so how can he have a throaty laugh? He giggles all the time, trying to sell his eunuch status and he does it so often that it is found unusual by Tyrion to hear a throaty, manly voice out of him. If it is indeed just another trick why do it? Also, i don't recall if it was Ned or Tyrion or maybe Cat but they thought that Varys' tone and style of speaking was queer and strangely uncomforting. Now that is a hint that his usual manner of speaking is acted out and fake. It is entirely possible that he also faked the throaty laugh but it is surely a hint.
32:15 - if I recall correctly, Jaime travels around the Riverlands with a huge delegation from the crown of several dozen/hundred people, flying Tommen's flags, with a huge group of knights, soldiers and camp followers. Not exactly subtle and wouldn't be too hard to follow
The thing I love about ASOIAF is that it feels like George has been writing it backward. The best theories build on this feeling. Unfortunately, George isn't writing them backward or the books would already be done. The Cushing revelations bring this into stark relief. He is making it up as he goes along. We just have to trust his muse.
My theory is as he got more and more into the books, he's gotten more into Lovecraft, as really I think that's his biggest similarity stylistically (if not the pure cosmic horror, then the descriptive power) and he seems to be pushing Westeros closer to Lovecraftian territory. Of course this could have been his idea all along in a vague sense. Fun to speculate
Regarding your final comment, about your fanfic's handling of Jon's resurrection, here is my suggestion: 1. Have a chapter with him as POV, in Ghost (akin to the ones where Bran is in his wolf). 2. Have a chapter where Jon gets resurrected (with Mel as POV?) 3. Have another chapter where Jon is the POV, and he's still in Ghost! (Maybe he can even see his resurrected body walking around and doing stuff, but when it speaks it doesn't express itself in the same that Jon talked in the previous books. Who/what it actually would be that is controlling Jon's body, I don't know, but Jon's consciousness should be stuck in Ghost for the rest of the story.)
Or how about a weirder idea - Jon and Ghost's 'souls' have been merged and then split apart, so Jon is now more Worgish and Ghost is more human. I always got the impression that Warging caused a merger of the minds (to a degree, with the original mind being pushed to the back), so having that link severed forcibly would cause some bizarre outcomes. Having one character split between two bodies would be such interesting storytelling.
@@nurdersvw8070 Yes, but then I think the chain of events would have to be: it turns out Time Travelling Bran warged Beric, then transferred himself to his dead mom, Lady Stoneheart gets convinced (due to Bran's influence?) she has to travel to the North to sacrificing herself to revive Jon (which will be ironic considering that she saw him as a threat to her son). The reason for this is that I don't think it makes sense plotwise if Beric could get revived as himself just by having a Red Priest say some magic words (i.e not that his dead body is warged), whereas Jon has to be revived by being warged by a time-travelling consciousness.
@@db7213 well the other resuractions haven't been on a warg and probably Jons counciesness gets drawn back out of ghost, meanwhile some part of him wants to stay in Ghost, so that he gets torn apart
All these confirmed rewrites strengthens my belief that George is much less lazy than people think I knew you just can't get this quality without many iterations
how is someone who writes with so much detail and care, hidden plots behind plots behind plots supposedly lazy to begin with? what he had written 10 years ago is so dense people find still new secrets in it . . . people can be really stupid at times
@@SingingSealRiana It is a relief that George is keeping to his methods despite the pressure. How George's writing has progressed from AGOT to ADWD, I can only imagine the pure quality that TWOW will be.
@Ariane Winter - Wouldn't it be wild if we find out that he's actually been writing BOTH of the last books at the same time again, and they'll just be separated like as before?? 😏 That would be lit.
19:55- I want to point out that while a penis is usually warm, a sword is cold steel. So his "manhood" being a sword and cold makes sense because a sword would be cold.
Kevan being kidnapped honestly is a pretty bad idea and I'm glad it was cut. What leverage does anyone have with him in their custody? Cersei hates him because she sees him as her rival despite being a blood relative who is actually on her side. And he'd never work with Dany or Aegon because, even though Cersei is an asshole, his grandnephew is the King.
He’s the senior member of the Lannister faction and, to some extent, seen as Tywin’s de facto heir in a political sense if not a legal one. He has a lot of people invested in Tommen’s cause who would love to see him as Hand or Regent leading them, so he’s a key player in that sense if the Brotherhood wanted to bargain his life. And given that in both versions of the story, the point is to emotionally blackmail Jaime into leaving his safety to come before Stoneheart, seizing his uncle who he cares for would be a good way of achieving that especially if Brotherhood spies pick up on how much Jaime is talking about Kevan’s location so they know it’s a likely plan to work.
There's Jamie, Genna, Lancel and all the Lannisport Lannisters that would absolutely pay the ransom for him. After Tywins death Kevan is the head of the Lannister clan, of course there's a good reason to kidnap him.
Didn’t Preston say once that GRRM solved the Knot by making Barristan a POV so Dany could leave sooner? So, after he switched to Dany flying away, making the locusts poisoned was an easy false-trail to get Selmy to coup Hizdahr and thus lead the city into the battle of fire?
I think it was pretty obvious that skahaz poisoned the locusts specifically because Dany wouldn't eat them, so it would look like Hizdahr tried to poison her, but she wouldn't actually want her to die. Thats why the poison was so weak and why it was on a food she didn't like.
@@Bobbybobwat im pretty sure the line is . ( dany ) how many ships do you own ? ( zaro ) who can say ? Storms , pirates ( corsairs ) but at last count i had more than 1200, but who can say untill the ships reach port . ( or something close to that ) perhaps its 88 ships in the blockade ? But 88 sounds wrong.
Drogon picks up Dany in his claws and flies out of the fighting pits taking her on a tour of the city. Drogon: I can show you the world. Shining, shimmering splendid. Tell me, khalessi, now when did You last let your heart decide? Dany: A whole new world! A new fantastic point of view. No one to tell us no, Or where to go.
I wish Martin had stuck w/ the five-year gap, and still written all this supplemental material to connect the dots, which could have been sold as novellas and short stories and what not between the main books. We'd be getting something almost every couple of years, if he'd gone that way, and he might not feel so hamstrung about the main story. That supplemental material could even be released after the main story was over. I mean, Martin is a great writer, and his fans would've eaten that shit up. If it was me, I def wouldn't release my reject material - that takes balls.
I’m pretty sure Belwas and the locusts have something to do with Reznak and his brazen beast locusts during the coup. Maybe Belwas will save Danny from betrayal at some point.
Authors/collectors normally gift their books and papers to libraries after they die, I’m sure we don’t have any current authors papers in our collections. You need to get permission and have a good reason to enter the university library though and they won’t let you in without one. Your presence and what you access is all documented. An academic library is much stricter than a public library.
Hizdar’s icy phalus is probably her being stabbed by a knife or a sword. Not like Nissa nissa I guess since it’s cold and not hot. Inverted. Her heart is fire and the sword is cold. Maybe her heart will make the sword stronger like the stallion gave strength to her son.
I actually really like Dany talking about Drogon sencing she was in danger, it always felt to me that he just showed up, smell of blood ect, cant remember whichh character says it, but him sencing danger draws a real big parallel with the dire wolves that despite many rereads I never realised until now.
Naw we already know this, and there are better ways to show bias. The convo between Jon and Sam is too long, its pretty grating to read the sake comvo again, just with a few slight differences
I am amused by the commentary on Euron and Aeron. In the published books, it is evident to any attentive reader that they are headed for Slavers Bay, but there has somehow arisen a popular fan delusion that their destination is Oldtown and/or the Reach. Now, examination of earlier drafts confirms that they are headed for Slavers Bay. But the fan investment in the fan theory is so great that this is being argued as a change from the books. No, it is not a change from the books. It merely contradicts a fan theory.
Just put Jon inside Ghost and through Ghost reveal that Robb is alive inside Grey wind. Both bothers looking at the world from outside view and got no stake in World politics and prophecy should be a interesting side story. As for Kevan, I always thought that Kevan was the target of BWB in AFFC and BWB stopped thier plans once Jaime entered the riverlands.
@@AbiShoukathAliA ...and now Lady Stoneheart is trying to find and crown him! Ahhhh, the parallels, the thematic resonance, it all adds up-GRRM PLANNED IT ALL edit: not even being sarcastic, I love puppies and wolf king would be metal as fuck
You touched on which chapters you would remove from Dance, I'd be curious to hear what chapters in other books/overall story lines you think could have been cut as well.
Hey Preston, this is unrelated to the video, but what do you think about the possibility of White Walkers having multiple competing or opposing factions? I have no proof nor hint of this, it's just a thought that came to my mind while watching your video on Qarth factions. Maybe something you can incorporate in the fan fiction project.
I don't really know how Preston became so convinced that the HotU vision about the corpse at the prow of a ship smiling sadly was originally supposed to be Euron. Couldn't it still have been Victarion, perhaps shortly dying, hence a "corpse" and "smiling sadly"? How would that description fit with Euron? Or is it because of the "grey lips" being similar to Euron's blue lips? Also I'm not as confident that Aeron would still be in the bowls of the Silence in this version of the story. What would Euron's use be for him in Slaver's Bay? To control dragons? As a sacrifice? Not saying these ideas aren’t possible btw, I just didn't understand from the conversation how Preston was so convinced that they were true. It would be great to his reasoning or any additional ideas he has as to George's original plans.
Euron Greyjoy going to slaver bay doesn't it prove or at least strengthen the theory of Euron Greyjoy being daario naharis. Daario naharis=hard as iron anagram.
Hey man, people have probably talked about this but maybe the battle for the dawn is time traveling bran talking about the future battle to come of dorne battling the others at the bone way as the final stand. And dornes master plan is based around this fact. And we will see the other ravage the whole of westerose
Please please please bring Jon back or don’t have him truly die in the first place. Your fan fiction maybe all I ever have for an ending to this amazing story and Jon means way to much to the story to die in the middle.
I really hope so and id be fine with some ghost chapters since that’s what I was expecting from the real novel as well. But if you ever hear Preston talk about it you can tell he really wants Jon to be dead for some reason lol. I would even be fine with Jon’s body being taken over by an other. Like maybe an old king of winter who was also like Brann who’s been an other for all this time but wargs into Jon as he died and now he’s like a complete different character in Jon’s body. You could even do a cool POV story telling concept where we see everything happening through Jon’s eyes but he’s saying he can’t really control what’s going on so like a captive in his own body. They might could even talk to each other or at least Jon knows what the other in his body is thinking. Or maybe have Jon warg into ghost and the other be in Jon’s body and Jon barely escapes ghost before losing himself completely and we get a mean Tywin wolf man version of Jon or something. All cool fresh ideas where Jon doesn’t have to die necessarily
I’d really like to know in depth why you don’t like Danys chapters I’m ADWD? Is. Cause there less action packed? I loved being in danys day to day life no how she dealt with the issues in mereen. But I can see how it’s boring to others
I love this literary archaeology! :) Preston, you should swallow your reservations and still resurrect Jon in SR's fanfic. That way your work will be easier to accept as the real end of the story.
I do not agree with chapter Daeneris 03 being unimportant. Actually I find it one of the most important for the character development. At that point she does not have the means to leave Meereen, having no ships. But now the possibility is here and we see that she almost takes it. She wants to, but her advisors - Savepate and Resnak make her see that by leaving them she will probably creat another Astapor. At least she feels that and that her duty is to stay. It is a very big decision and this is the chapter leading into it.
Preston, please, if you do resurrect Jon, keep him a non-POV character. Stage his resurrection similarly to Lady Stoneheart reveal, I'd love to see that.
I know Preston loves Victarion but for me he’s the perfect example of why the story is never getting finished. He is an unnecessary character. We already have Quentyn traveling to meet Dany, we have Tyrion traveling to meet Dany, and we have a million other fucking things happening at the same time. The last thing we need is an Iron Born traveling all the way across the world as well. And what could he possibly bring to the story that would fundamentally change it? At a certain point the escalation of plot lines has to stop and things need to start to get resolved. Victarion has some interesting stuff but he is just too much
Victarion is the most badass Greyjoy and I will die on this hill! (Euron needed help, but Victarion was pretty much dead when Moqorro started empowering him!)
Danys ice penis dream being Jon killing her makes sense …. Unfortunately since I am not a fan of Jon killing dany, and I suspect it won’t happen in the books. Has Preston ever commented on what he thinks of the shows version of Danys end?
So the original blue-lipped Daario kind of makes me think of Euron again. Originally Euron may have been Daario in disguise, or the other way round. Anyway interesting stuff!
Euron as a point of view character sounds insane
Right? Euron seems to know way too much to ever be a POV character. Imagine getting a Howland Reed POV.
@@chompskyhonk952 or a roose bolton pov, it would be very interesting but maybe the mystery would be gone
Aeron Damphair, not Euron.
Depends on him being a mystic horrormaker or a con-artist.
''It is working! Soon the gods shall die!!''
or
''Holy shit. They are buying it... I can't believe. How the hell can they be that stupid.''
no
I love that Jon chapter in Winds. It shows us unequivocally just how biased the POVs are. Jon observes why Sam changes the subject in a way that doesn’t come through in Sam’s Feast POV. It shows us just how skewed other POV chapters might be
And he significantly reduces the height of Janos Slynt
"In Braavos there had been a house with a red door, but only for a little while, and then they painted it lemon-yellow."
"In Braavos there had been a house with a red door, but only for a little while, as the door was cut by Johnny with an axe."
They heard the song and painted it black.
@@davidbernhardt551
And Ramin orchestrated the deed.
These major re-writes show that many of the estimates that some experts make about George's writing rates are mulch.
George writes (often near complete) chapters & sequences but then dumps months of work. Sure he recycles some of it, but this is the "gardening" process in action.
It is ruthless & ultimately incredibly frustrating for the gardener.
I wonder if seeing these drscriptions of George's process has caused Preston to re-evaluate his previous comments regarding George's level of effort?
You don't realize how good you 2 are till you listen to another podcast. I wish you guys would do more podcasts, carmine has grown on me, and you guys play off each other so well
Thanks bud.
I agree with this post. Although, to be fair to Carmine, I never really saw anything from you, just Preston's theory videos.
Every time I listen to a new GoT podcast, I'm reminded that there are people who still say "epic" a lot.
Carmine is surprisingly great at facilitating these podcasts. He finds guests, moderates chat, sparks conversations, gives context on topics and past conversations, etc. He may not talk the most, but he does a great job keeping things running smoothly
@@PainCausingSamurai Carmine is the Kevan Lannister of podcasters.
Once you know how important he is, if you take him away from these you realise the whole thing falls apart.
"A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly."
Tbh I thought that was Aeron during the end of the Forsaken chapter.
I had the same thought, but I don't think Aeron is standing. He's tied to the prow, which I've always imagined meaning his feet are dangling on empty air.
i always figured this was Jon Connington
@Caleb Pauley - Oh SH*T 😳🤣 That's it!
Why had I never thought about him?! A man w/gray lips, smiling sadly! Of course!
I don't know why, i don't know how, but i have always thought of it as Theon.
It's hizdahr being killed by Victorian.
Ironborns are so cool in the book. Shame that we didn't have a slight taste of that in the show.
Victarion is unbelievably cool with his badass anime arm
@@Kunumbah1he isn't as cool as edward elric
If you think sea god fearing, land stealing, poor oral hygiene having, rapist pirates are cool. Then yeah
They should make the Red Kraken more Victarion like, basically adapt the ASOIAF character into this timeline since we never saw him on the show.
@@calebblack1420 I mean, let's be real; Most of that applies to the rest of Westeros as well.
Outside River Run, a camp follower Jaime meets has possession of Robb's crown. Later, Lady Stoneheart has regained possession of it. Along with Tom 'O Sevens, this implies that the Brotherhood is employing small folk as agents in enemy armies, which supports the idea that Hilda is spying on the Brackens.
nice! that kind of shows the BWB power, i like that
I have to disagree with Preston on Dany III not adding anything to the story. I vividly remember reading Xaro's monologue to Daenerys about how slavery is a necessary evil for greatness and perfection. It was an eloquent speech to which even Daenerys doesn't have a good response besides saying that she disagrees with him. For us readers it is so obvious that Dany is in the right with her aim to abolish slavery that I think it was necessary to present a strong counter argument. And it had to come from someone who is at least somewhat trustworthy, like Xaro, and not some comically evil slaver like most of them are. Xaro pointing out to Dany that there are people in her city begging to be sold back into slavery because their lives have become drastically worse and Dany actually giving in and allowing people to become slaves if they do so voluntarily was a very powerful scene, illustrating how Dany's revolutionary tendencies have big knock-on effects that leave behind some of the very people she is purportedly trying to help. I sure remember for a second almost being convinced by Xaro that slavery was actually good lol. Brilliant writing by George and I wouldn‘t want to miss it!
None of the Dany chapters add anything to the story. They're boring and I skip them.
So i guess the original plan for kevan was to have stoneheart kill him? It still lines up as a shock to close the book, but at different hands. Maybe it felt too repetitious after ASOS’ ending, hence the change.
The implication might be that the Kevan epilogue with Varys killing him would be replaced with a Pycelle POV, which would be a very interesting perspective.
"Kraken and crow" - Any evidence that Sam, a crow, was ever planned to go with Marwyn to Slaver's Bay? Could be Samwell instead of Euron in the unpublished version...
But why would Dany have to "beware" of Sam though? He's one of the most harmless characters in the whole story. 🤔 Hmm...
@@KabbalahSherry good point. maybe he could have figured out stuff about dragons and accidentally helped quentyn, victarion, brown ben, or someone get a dragon. I have no clue lol
If Jon does end up killing Dany and meeting Sam is what eventually leads her to Jon... Maybe not so harmless.
Sam meeting Dany. There’s a thought. That would very funny. It would probably happen like this: Euron sacks old town and takes nobles hostage from the citadel and high tower, Sam is amongst them. He is kept on an Ironborn ship as a servant because of his ability to read and handle the ravens.
Euron is simultaneously a kraken and crow. It's just Euron
The bit about Jon stabbing Dany makes so much sense. As much as we can rightfully complain about Dan & Dave, it makes no sense that one of the final scenes would have been something they concocted out of whole cloth.
If GRRM changes this, it goes against what he has said in the past about not altering his story as people
figure it out. We’ll see I guess.
Regarding the locusts. It's possible Belwas was going to be poisoned by another means in another scene, but George decided to make the locusts poisoned for time efficiency.
Famously time efficient writer George R. R. Martin. ;)
@@DrZaius3141 he tries
Love the comment about Kevin last seen a horse (ahorse). That April Fool's video was hilarious.
That bit especially was GOLDEN.
The locusts not being in the original draft is a pretty huge revelation because if it was supposed to be an important event upon which the rest of the events in Meereen rest, it would have been there.
That it was a late addition really makes me reevaluate how important that’s actually meant to be for the story if George didn’t think it was a key event of the story while writing it the first time around.
1000%
My impression of the Kevan semi-plot point was that Cersei estranged him and he might have been plotting against her.
He's a disaffected younger brother, she's a vengeance zombie.
Together they fight usurpation in Westeros.
Kevan is actually the Eddard of his house. Dutiful and loyal.
@@shadow_realm47
Kevan is all right, apart from the odd war crime.
@@shadow_realm47 While that was true under Tywin, the exchange between him and Cersei later he does bring up he has a sizeable nest egg and the loyalty of a number of men when arguing with her. While Cersei is written in such a way that it certainly makes her come across as paranoid, this still does come off as a threat on his part not to push him too far.
I think my hang ups with Danny chapters in dance is the complete change in her actions. She was moving and shaking things up all the way up till dance. Then her chapters turn into a deep dive into politics with little pay off. George is great at mixing politics, drama, and story moving actions into the story (note kat and cerci) but Danny just sits there while things happen to "her" team. She talks but I feel if her words were not there everything would still happen. Also chapter 3 is my favorite of the Danny chapters lol.
It’s fascinating peeking behind the scenes at George’s process.
Oh this should be fun to hear about. Even though the drafts won't happen it's interesting to see what George did have planned
I feel like I'm the only one who thinks this but... "Beware the Perfumed Seneshal" is probably about Varus. Cuz Dany already HAS one of those in Mereen at the time that Quaithe gives this prophecy. But her prophecy is about people who WILL BE arriving to meet Dany. 😏 I think Reznack is a red herring.
I think the person Dany needs to worry about is Varus. Because as we can deduce (thanks to the show anyway), Varus will meet Dany & be a friend to her... at first. But it won't stay that way.
Something will happen, and Varus will end up trading sides. Probably to aide Faegon. So I really think it's referring to him & his eventual betrayal.
I know for you it's probably a typo, but I never made the connection between varys and varus, the Roman general
Always thought that too
There are hints that Varys is not a eunuch. He could be anyone really.
@@pankajsheoran131 what hints?
@@alishamarieh.1519 “He accuses my brother and sister of incest. I wonder how he came by that suspicion.”
“Perhaps he read a book and looked at the color of a bastard’s hair, as Ned Stark did, and Jon Arryn before him. Or perhaps someone whispered it in his ear.” The eunuch’s laugh was not his usual giggle, but deeper and more throaty.
Varys was cut at a young age so how can he have a throaty laugh? He giggles all the time, trying to sell his eunuch status and he does it so often that it is found unusual by Tyrion to hear a throaty, manly voice out of him. If it is indeed just another trick why do it? Also, i don't recall if it was Ned or Tyrion or maybe Cat but they thought that Varys' tone and style of speaking was queer and strangely uncomforting. Now that is a hint that his usual manner of speaking is acted out and fake. It is entirely possible that he also faked the throaty laugh but it is surely a hint.
I read the "that's how libraries work" comment and totally burst out laughing, loved it. Very glad you read it too.
"And everytime Kevan is not on screen, all the other characters should say: 'Where's Kevan?'"
32:15 - if I recall correctly, Jaime travels around the Riverlands with a huge delegation from the crown of several dozen/hundred people, flying Tommen's flags, with a huge group of knights, soldiers and camp followers. Not exactly subtle and wouldn't be too hard to follow
The thing I love about ASOIAF is that it feels like George has been writing it backward. The best theories build on this feeling. Unfortunately, George isn't writing them backward or the books would already be done. The Cushing revelations bring this into stark relief. He is making it up as he goes along. We just have to trust his muse.
My theory is as he got more and more into the books, he's gotten more into Lovecraft, as really I think that's his biggest similarity stylistically (if not the pure cosmic horror, then the descriptive power) and he seems to be pushing Westeros closer to Lovecraftian territory. Of course this could have been his idea all along in a vague sense. Fun to speculate
Regarding your final comment, about your fanfic's handling of Jon's resurrection, here is my suggestion:
1. Have a chapter with him as POV, in Ghost (akin to the ones where Bran is in his wolf).
2. Have a chapter where Jon gets resurrected (with Mel as POV?)
3. Have another chapter where Jon is the POV, and he's still in Ghost! (Maybe he can even see his resurrected body walking around and doing stuff, but when it speaks it doesn't express itself in the same that Jon talked in the previous books. Who/what it actually would be that is controlling Jon's body, I don't know, but Jon's consciousness should be stuck in Ghost for the rest of the story.)
it could be Time travelling Bran
Or how about a weirder idea - Jon and Ghost's 'souls' have been merged and then split apart, so Jon is now more Worgish and Ghost is more human.
I always got the impression that Warging caused a merger of the minds (to a degree, with the original mind being pushed to the back), so having that link severed forcibly would cause some bizarre outcomes. Having one character split between two bodies would be such interesting storytelling.
@@andromidius So we would see future POV from humanized Ghost's perspective, and wolfified Jon would not be a POV character?
@@nurdersvw8070 Yes, but then I think the chain of events would have to be: it turns out Time Travelling Bran warged Beric, then transferred himself to his dead mom, Lady Stoneheart gets convinced (due to Bran's influence?) she has to travel to the North to sacrificing herself to revive Jon (which will be ironic considering that she saw him as a threat to her son).
The reason for this is that I don't think it makes sense plotwise if Beric could get revived as himself just by having a Red Priest say some magic words (i.e not that his dead body is warged), whereas Jon has to be revived by being warged by a time-travelling consciousness.
@@db7213 well the other resuractions haven't been on a warg and probably Jons counciesness gets drawn back out of ghost, meanwhile some part of him wants to stay in Ghost, so that he gets torn apart
Very excited for whatever the 3rd post is gonna be, very interesting.
Thank you for reviewing this and a big thank you to GStuff ( i think this is his name) for doing this detail research for the fans.
I burst out laughing when Carmine so casually asked if Kevan was last seen "ahorse".
What does this mean?
Glidus April 1st video with fake theories. It was like a quiz show, I highly recommend it!
This is great research and commentary!
All these confirmed rewrites strengthens my belief that George is much less lazy than people think
I knew you just can't get this quality without many iterations
how is someone who writes with so much detail and care, hidden plots behind plots behind plots supposedly lazy to begin with? what he had written 10 years ago is so dense people find still new secrets in it . . . people can be really stupid at times
@@SingingSealRiana It is a relief that George is keeping to his methods despite the pressure. How George's writing has progressed from AGOT to ADWD, I can only imagine the pure quality that TWOW will be.
@Ariane Winter - Wouldn't it be wild if we find out that he's actually been writing BOTH of the last books at the same time again, and they'll just be separated like as before?? 😏 That would be lit.
@@KabbalahSherry really doubt it
@@pankajsheoran131 AGOT was a thousand times better than that bloated mess of ADWD
19:55- I want to point out that while a penis is usually warm, a sword is cold steel. So his "manhood" being a sword and cold makes sense because a sword would be cold.
Also it says “like Ice” as in.. Ned’s sword. Bringing justice.
what if its an insane triple fakeout, and Reznak IS the perfumed sceneshal!!?!?!?!?
I hope gsteff found some draft of the Shrouded Lord chapter. That would be super exciting.
Kevan being kidnapped honestly is a pretty bad idea and I'm glad it was cut. What leverage does anyone have with him in their custody?
Cersei hates him because she sees him as her rival despite being a blood relative who is actually on her side.
And he'd never work with Dany or Aegon because, even though Cersei is an asshole, his grandnephew is the King.
It would be interesting even if he is just hung. Im glad it was changed though because that Kevin chapter was awesome
He’s the senior member of the Lannister faction and, to some extent, seen as Tywin’s de facto heir in a political sense if not a legal one. He has a lot of people invested in Tommen’s cause who would love to see him as Hand or Regent leading them, so he’s a key player in that sense if the Brotherhood wanted to bargain his life.
And given that in both versions of the story, the point is to emotionally blackmail Jaime into leaving his safety to come before Stoneheart, seizing his uncle who he cares for would be a good way of achieving that especially if Brotherhood spies pick up on how much Jaime is talking about Kevan’s location so they know it’s a likely plan to work.
There's Jamie, Genna, Lancel and all the Lannisport Lannisters that would absolutely pay the ransom for him. After Tywins death Kevan is the head of the Lannister clan, of course there's a good reason to kidnap him.
Would be interesting for Aegon to somehow kidnap Kevan as leverage over Cersei and she just doesn’t give af😂
Didn’t Preston say once that GRRM solved the Knot by making Barristan a POV so Dany could leave sooner? So, after he switched to Dany flying away, making the locusts poisoned was an easy false-trail to get Selmy to coup Hizdahr and thus lead the city into the battle of fire?
Let's be real, the Kevin goes missing story was purely an homage to Home Alone
Kevan could have been a Benjyn Stark parallel: “Jaime/Jon, come quick! It’s about your uncle.”
I think it was pretty obvious that skahaz poisoned the locusts specifically because Dany wouldn't eat them, so it would look like Hizdahr tried to poison her, but she wouldn't actually want her to die. Thats why the poison was so weak and why it was on a food she didn't like.
I think qarth sent 13 ships , but i believe zaro said he owned 1200 ships personally, and he was one of the major players in the 13 .
The wiki said he personally owned 84 ships
@@Bobbybobwat im pretty sure the line is . ( dany ) how many ships do you own ? ( zaro ) who can say ? Storms , pirates ( corsairs ) but at last count i had more than 1200, but who can say untill the ships reach port . ( or something close to that ) perhaps its 88 ships in the blockade ? But 88 sounds wrong.
Also, do we know how big the ships are?
Owning 10 dromonds is more important than 100 triremes, for example.
Drogon picks up Dany in his claws and flies out of the fighting pits taking her on a tour of the city.
Drogon: I can show you the world. Shining, shimmering splendid. Tell me, khalessi, now when did You last let your heart decide?
Dany: A whole new world! A new fantastic point of view. No one to tell us no, Or where to go.
I wish Martin had stuck w/ the five-year gap, and still written all this supplemental material to connect the dots, which could have been sold as novellas and short stories and what not between the main books. We'd be getting something almost every couple of years, if he'd gone that way, and he might not feel so hamstrung about the main story.
That supplemental material could even be released after the main story was over. I mean, Martin is a great writer, and his fans would've eaten that shit up.
If it was me, I def wouldn't release my reject material - that takes balls.
Jon 2 is the one where he kills Janos slynt, He establishes he’s authority as a lord commander, how is that not important ?
I bet GRRM just giggles to himself when he watches RUclips videos about the books he knows he will never finish.
I’m pretty sure Belwas and the locusts have something to do with Reznak and his brazen beast locusts during the coup. Maybe Belwas will save Danny from betrayal at some point.
Authors/collectors normally gift their books and papers to libraries after they die, I’m sure we don’t have any current authors papers in our collections. You need to get permission and have a good reason to enter the university library though and they won’t let you in without one. Your presence and what you access is all documented. An academic library is much stricter than a public library.
Hizdar’s icy phalus is probably her being stabbed by a knife or a sword. Not like Nissa nissa I guess since it’s cold and not hot. Inverted. Her heart is fire and the sword is cold. Maybe her heart will make the sword stronger like the stallion gave strength to her son.
Look what you reduced us to George!😭
It's been so long, I forgot if Strong Belwas recovered. He's apparently alive but not doing too great, I hope he gets his mojo back!
I actually really like Dany talking about Drogon sencing she was in danger, it always felt to me that he just showed up, smell of blood ect, cant remember whichh character says it, but him sencing danger draws a real big parallel with the dire wolves that despite many rereads I never realised until now.
8:34 I acutlly love that chapter! I thought it was neat seeing similar effents from different pov's
Naw we already know this, and there are better ways to show bias. The convo between Jon and Sam is too long, its pretty grating to read the sake comvo again, just with a few slight differences
Ditch the white background PLEASE!
I am amused by the commentary on Euron and Aeron. In the published books, it is evident to any attentive reader that they are headed for Slavers Bay, but there has somehow arisen a popular fan delusion that their destination is Oldtown and/or the Reach. Now, examination of earlier drafts confirms that they are headed for Slavers Bay. But the fan investment in the fan theory is so great that this is being argued as a change from the books. No, it is not a change from the books. It merely contradicts a fan theory.
Just put Jon inside Ghost and through Ghost reveal that Robb is alive inside Grey wind. Both bothers looking at the world from outside view and got no stake in World politics and prophecy should be a interesting side story.
As for Kevan, I always thought that Kevan was the target of BWB in AFFC and BWB stopped thier plans once Jaime entered the riverlands.
Grey wind was killed though. Atleast I according to a Wiki of I&F.
@@johkupohkuxd1697 Martin left it open. Freys never confirmed Grey wind died, they just said the wolf took a lot of arrows when freed.
@@AbiShoukathAliA his head was sown to Robb's body. He big dead
@@sillysailorartemis no one saw that it can just be a story. Also the grey wind head is too big to be sown to robb's body
@@AbiShoukathAliA ...and now Lady Stoneheart is trying to find and crown him! Ahhhh, the parallels, the thematic resonance, it all adds up-GRRM PLANNED IT ALL
edit: not even being sarcastic, I love puppies and wolf king would be metal as fuck
LOL @ "Carmine, thats how a library works." Hahaha
What is dead may never die!
I really.hope that Preston changes his mind and brings Jon back. I think his role in the story is nowhere near finished
Love these! Please do part 3
You touched on which chapters you would remove from Dance, I'd be curious to hear what chapters in other books/overall story lines you think could have been cut as well.
"was he last seen a horse? What happened?" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I saw the video twice in a row. Super intresting
And Huge clues specially the Jon and Dany situation 🤯🤯🤯
Hey Preston, this is unrelated to the video, but what do you think about the possibility of White Walkers having multiple competing or opposing factions? I have no proof nor hint of this, it's just a thought that came to my mind while watching your video on Qarth factions. Maybe something you can incorporate in the fan fiction project.
I don't really know how Preston became so convinced that the HotU vision about the corpse at the prow of a ship smiling sadly was originally supposed to be Euron. Couldn't it still have been Victarion, perhaps shortly dying, hence a "corpse" and "smiling sadly"? How would that description fit with Euron? Or is it because of the "grey lips" being similar to Euron's blue lips?
Also I'm not as confident that Aeron would still be in the bowls of the Silence in this version of the story. What would Euron's use be for him in Slaver's Bay? To control dragons? As a sacrifice?
Not saying these ideas aren’t possible btw, I just didn't understand from the conversation how Preston was so convinced that they were true. It would be great to his reasoning or any additional ideas he has as to George's original plans.
He can't kill his brother, it, is, known.
Carmine so concerned about Kevan 🤭"was he last seen ahorse? What happened"
LoL Kevan Lannister is a horse!
Oh my god mah queen is canon now
Euron Greyjoy going to slaver bay doesn't it prove or at least strengthen the theory of Euron Greyjoy being daario naharis.
Daario naharis=hard as iron anagram.
The poisoned locusts sounds like a way to sow confusion after danny leaves mereen
Preston King!
Preston king!
Corn!
Hey man, people have probably talked about this but maybe the battle for the dawn is time traveling bran talking about the future battle to come of dorne battling the others at the bone way as the final stand. And dornes master plan is based around this fact. And we will see the other ravage the whole of westerose
I guess GRRM just kind of forgot
I think the three tests were a reference to the merchant of venice.
Please please please bring Jon back or don’t have him truly die in the first place. Your fan fiction maybe all I ever have for an ending to this amazing story and Jon means way to much to the story to die in the middle.
I'm sure Preston will bring Jon back in due time.
But first we get "Ghost" chapters.
I really hope so and id be fine with some ghost chapters since that’s what I was expecting from the real novel as well. But if you ever hear Preston talk about it you can tell he really wants Jon to be dead for some reason lol.
I would even be fine with Jon’s body being taken over by an other. Like maybe an old king of winter who was also like Brann who’s been an other for all this time but wargs into Jon as he died and now he’s like a complete different character in Jon’s body. You could even do a cool POV story telling concept where we see everything happening through Jon’s eyes but he’s saying he can’t really control what’s going on so like a captive in his own body. They might could even talk to each other or at least Jon knows what the other in his body is thinking. Or maybe have Jon warg into ghost and the other be in Jon’s body and Jon barely escapes ghost before losing himself completely and we get a mean Tywin wolf man version of Jon or something. All cool fresh ideas where Jon doesn’t have to die necessarily
20:36 - I mean, depending on who resurrects Jon/how he's brought back, that foreshadow could in a way be both Jon and the Others
Was he last seen ahorse lol
I’d really like to know in depth why you don’t like Danys chapters I’m ADWD? Is. Cause there less action packed? I loved being in danys day to day life no how she dealt with the issues in mereen. But I can see how it’s boring to others
Thanks g steph
The Crow has to be Aemon's corpse, doesn't it? Sam brings it to the Citadel, Marwyn hijacks his ship, and brings a corpse to Daenerys. Why? idk.
Does anybody know the name of the first part? The channel organization leaves much to be desired
Great stuff as always!
I love the Dany chapter in Dance! I don’t get the hate
I love this literary archaeology! :) Preston, you should swallow your reservations and still resurrect Jon in SR's fanfic. That way your work will be easier to accept as the real end of the story.
Now kevans a horse? This is getting ridiculous ,~.~
At least he isn't a donkey.
I do not agree with chapter Daeneris 03 being unimportant. Actually I find it one of the most important for the character development. At that point she does not have the means to leave Meereen, having no ships. But now the possibility is here and we see that she almost takes it. She wants to, but her advisors - Savepate and Resnak make her see that by leaving them she will probably creat another Astapor. At least she feels that and that her duty is to stay. It is a very big decision and this is the chapter leading into it.
Preston, please, if you do resurrect Jon, keep him a non-POV character.
Stage his resurrection similarly to Lady Stoneheart reveal, I'd love to see that.
The way GRRM writes is insane lol
Regarding Jon, you could always resurrect him, but he is now Future Bran or someone else, and not Jon at all anymore.
I know Preston loves Victarion but for me he’s the perfect example of why the story is never getting finished. He is an unnecessary character. We already have Quentyn traveling to meet Dany, we have Tyrion traveling to meet Dany, and we have a million other fucking things happening at the same time. The last thing we need is an Iron Born traveling all the way across the world as well. And what could he possibly bring to the story that would fundamentally change it? At a certain point the escalation of plot lines has to stop and things need to start to get resolved. Victarion has some interesting stuff but he is just too much
Victarion is the most badass Greyjoy and I will die on this hill! (Euron needed help, but Victarion was pretty much dead when Moqorro started empowering him!)
Danys ice penis dream being Jon killing her makes sense …. Unfortunately since I am not a fan of Jon killing dany, and I suspect it won’t happen in the books. Has Preston ever commented on what he thinks of the shows version of Danys end?
So the original blue-lipped Daario kind of makes me think of Euron again.
Originally Euron may have been Daario in disguise, or the other way round. Anyway interesting stuff!
Yeah, but the sword definitely screams Jon. Euron has no notable sword.
@@lordmelvin9310 oh yeah I am only speaking superficially
Euron = Dusky Woman CONFIRMED!
Could it be that the locusts were meant to just make Dany really sick? Make her bed ridden so they can scheme?
make a jon imposter-zombie forppl in the watch to take control or stannis if u want jon dead
Preston the Reader strikes again!
PJ IS BACK FOMOS
is there a part 3 to this?
The locusts thing is one of the few misteries I got right then! I thought from the first reading that there was no poison!
Daenerys was going to pull a Kaguya?
Why don’t you do a reading of this material on your channel?
well now we know which half preston was probably wrong about
Yes more dwd content MMOOOOOAAAARRR