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As a commercial pilot with over 10,000 flight hours I am amazed that the military sends fighter pilots to war with only a few hundred flight hours. I realize that the training is intense and specific to the mission, but that’s crazy. When I had 300 hours I was still nervous landing. Being able to make split second decisions while flying a literal rocket strapped between your legs with people chasing and shooting at you is insane. The right stuff doesn’t begin to describe the skills, attitude and natural talent, not to mention balls, these fighter pilots had. Today’s jocks are basically computer operations. They still need the balls, but the instinct aspect has been replaced by bytes and bits.
Vietnam veteran F4 pilot here. The F4 was a great plane but no one talks about the adverse yah and dihedral effects caused by the aileron and the spoiler. The snap rollaway was hurrendous. Lots of pilots lost their lives due to this.
First I want to Salute you and Thank you for your service. I do believe that if our Vietnam Phantom pilots had proper equipped phantoms and missiles that where reliable along with rules of engagement that Fighters use today, the ratio would have been overwhelming in our Favor.
when SAM75 missiles were able to shoot down about 20 pieces of B52, it seems that this happened in the period 73-74, the war immediately ended From Russia ❤
Robert S. McNamara was Secretary of Defense from 1961 to 1968, and admitted that the second portion of the Gulf of Tonkin incident did not occur. It was essentially fabricated. He also admitted he might have been a war criminal. I urge anyone with an interest in McNamara to watch the Errol Morris film "The Fog of War," which is an interview with McNamara in the years not long before he died. It's an outstanding film.
McNamara drove Ford into the ground backing their stupid Ford Edsel that nearly bankrupted the company So apparently the government felt he and his heartless spreadsheets were perfect for the job
One small laugh. The spot talking about tankers towing fighters to within gliding distance of there base shows an F-105. In that case gliding distance would be directly overhead of its base. Thurs could do just about everything EXCEPT glide.😊
The phantoms was a great Fighter, the problem in Vietnam was the LBJ administration of BVR ONLY Doctrine but than they made the phantom pilots maneuver the phantoms for Dogfights when they wasn’t trained. However when you did have pilots who could maneuver the phantoms they would become ACEs . Captain Frank Ault did a report on this called the Ault Report, his findings was the missiles failed the majority of the time and pilots wasn’t properly trained. Dan Pedersen armed with this report stated a school to train these phantom pilots called Fighter weapons school or Top Gun now, these phantom pilots would than take the 2:1 ratio to 24:1 with the phantoms by the end of Vietnam. Why this new record is not discussed with the properly trained pilots, Is a mystery..
Don't forget the spec of omitting the gun from the Phantom at its inception. Only the Air Force version (E model I believe) had a built in gun. The Navy tried with the very inaccurate gun pod slung on the centerline of the plane. Love the Phantom, but the Navy got it wrong all the way by relying on unreliable AIM9 and AIM7 missiles.
@@dawightg9787 You keep using "BVR" and "beyond visual range" (same thing, I know) but the doctrine in Nam required visual identification before engagement. This eliminated the use of the AIM7 as it was a medium range weapon. At what point in the war was BVR a doctrine? It was what the plane was capable of, but it was not used in Nam.
@@okayestguitar66 Yes, the Air Force's version was the F-4E with leading edge wing slats that traded some top end speed for a tighter turning radius, and also it was equipped with an internal General Electric M61 Vulcan cannon, and it didn't show up quite as late as people think, quite obviously they saw the need for it immediately because the first E variant flew in 1965 (not operationally, just flew), given the redesign and either production time, or if the first one's were conversions then the conversion time, it'd have taken that means they would have had to determined it's need no later than sometime in 64, having first flow in 65 I wouldn't think they'd have been operational in Vietnam later than 66, they already had plenty of F-4 crews at that point so getting a unit retrained on a variant couldn't have have taken too long, I'd think early 67 would be the latest that a unit would be flying with them over there but most likely 66 I'd think, even if the first E variant flew on the last day of 65 I'd still say most likely they had the first unit(s) in Vietnam in 66. I've noticed in comments before about the E variant a lot of people obviously think it showed up "late" in the war (not that you did), even worst case scenario of sometime in 67 can't be considered late in the Vietnam War, that's mid way as far as the US's involvement over there goes. But here's an interesting statistic, F-4's had 15.5 gun kills in Vietnam, but the F105's, an aircraft that people are always claiming doesn't qualify as a fighter, had 24.5 of it's 27.5 kills as gun kills in Vietnam, and that's why I tell people they're wrong when they claim the F-105 wasn't a fighter, not only was the vast majority of it's kills gun kills (89%) but it also holds the record in Vietnam for the most amount of gun kills by any US aircraft, now if that doesn't qualify it as a fighter I don't know what would.
Nothing was the US's fault, not from you guy's or even the people in Washington, your mission was to keep the north from invading the south which is exactly what you did, every time they tried while you guy's were there, Tet in 68 and the Easter Offensive in 72, you guy's handed them their asses, both were spectacular military defeats that are one's for the book, both times they had invasion forces that took them years to build up and put in place and both times they were destroyed within weeks after launching their offensives. And with Tet the entire VC command structure was also smashed along with the North's military, from that point on the VC were no longer a singular military force with a command and control structure, not only were they reduced to rag tag individual village units but also after Tet the VC were more likely to surrender and could be turned much easier than before Tet, the SF guy's in the Phoenix Program whose job it was to do that said after Tet 80% of the VC they'd nab would turn just from asking them to, and even the more stubborn one's all they'd have to do is take them to downtown Saigon and show them that all the North's propaganda about how Americans owned all the businesses and how the South Vietnamese were nothing more than their slaves was all nonsense, one night out on the town taking them around drinking and carrying on and them seeing all the neon lights and stuff and they wanted some of that, the next thing you know they'd go back to their village and start sending nonsense intelligence those guy's fed them up the pipeline into the North. No what happened in 75 wasn't your guy's fault, you left 2 years before that anyway, it's the South Vietnamese military's fault, after 10 years of being supplied and supported when it was time for them to put their big boy pants on and fight their own war themselves they're the one's that blew it, they had the equipment and the forces and should have been able to do the same thing to the North Vietnamese military that you guy's did, but their officer corps was corrupt and inept, they're the one's that let down the South Vietnamese people and lost their freedoms for them, not you guy's, you were 100% bad asses over there.
Mỹ tổn thất hơn 10 nghìn chiếc máy bay các loại. Tính gộp cả liên minh của Mỹ là khoảng 12 nghìn máy bay bị loại khỏi cuộc chiến. Máy bay không kích phantom F4 của Mỹ thiệt hại nhiều. Mỹ cứ sản xuất ra 8 chiếc F4 là bị bên Việt Nam bắn rơi 1 chiếc
Mac was on a good day a PEDANTIC schoolboy that knew everything; understanding nothing, “skrowed-up” anything he dabbled at - which amounted to everything but it was always someone else’s fault.
Calling the F-104 the Thud was not affectionate. It referred to their frequent crashes. An Air Force magazine in the late sixtess ran an article called”The Thud is no Dud,”reacting to widespread disenchantment with the 105.
These training videos bring back memories of when i was stationed at HMAS Albatross navy air base many yrs ago in my time off on base i would go to the film room an watch these films 🎥 😀 👌 thanks for the memories ❤❤❤💋💋❤❤😃
Great book, one of my favorites on the topic. For a different viewpoint, I highly recommend Sally Paine's excellent presentation "Who Lost the Vietnam War" here on RUclips, on the US Naval College channel if my memory serves me well. It's an interesting one, shedding light on how the US made strategic long-term decisions on geopolitics, especially regarding China and the USSR. I believe you will find it worthwhile, presuming you are educated on the Vietnam War. 🙂
"The wing man will need a degree of skill and proficiency which is gained only through practice." - @52:11 Back when the world respected skill gaining through practice.
I wondered the same thing. That lie gave the president the authority to do anything they wanted. Absent that false flag operation things would be so much different. I was a senior in high school wher the cease fire was signed. We were all sure we would be drafted. We were ready to “do our duty” as our forefathers had. Now that I know the truth, I don’t know what to think.
For the Americans, the purpose of war is not to win. But to make money (for a few elite insiders) for warring So the conflicts drag on for decades without resolution The government keeps borrowing money for it. Nixon had to let the private bankers off the gold standard to pay for it. Inflation and loss of constitutional protections is the result
For the Americans, the purpose of war is not to win. But to make money (for a few elite insiders) for warring So the conflicts drag on for decades without resolution The government keeps borrowing money for it. Nixon had to let the private bankers off the gold standard to pay for it. Inflation and loss of constitutional protections is the result
@@thanhthuyang9697we would’ve won had we been able to push into the north but that probably would’ve started ww3 or another Korean War type scenario we fought with our hands tied our objective was just to defend south vietnam hell we never even had an official declaration of war against them💀💀
"Valuable lessons were gleamed...". Gimme a break! Since the Vietnam war the 'endless' conflicts have on increased in size, scope and tempo! The purpose: to profit from continual war.
Growing up in the late 60's early 70's was about the same but my dad was in the WVANG as a C121 engineer and those guys came around the house and they were Gods to us. I couldn't fly military aviation, but I did 6500 hours in 26 years as an aerial survey pilot. Kids today can't boil water.
They can't? I'd think as the son of a veteran you'd have a little more respect for the past TWO generations of kids that for 20 years continually martched off to a war that not a single one of them had to be drafted for, unlike WW2 where ⅔rds of them were drafted, and in Vietnam where ⅓rd were drafted (sounds to me like America's generations keep getting better), and if you recall it was a war we all ask for on Sept 11th 2001 and for quite some time after, we ask for it and they went off and fought it, even after things weren't looking so good they still continued going. And I heard that same nonsense from America's "greatest generation" about the Vietnam era kids, "Kid's these days are worthless, they weren't even in a real war". Reminds me of a single frame cartoon I saw in a Playboy magazine years and years ago back when I was in my 20's, two old skinny cavemen with long beards sitting on a bench and walking along in front of them was a young caveman with a big old rock hoisted up on his shoulder and the one old caveman saying to the other "Would you look at that, boy let me tell you ya couldn't do that back in our day, no sir, the rocks were much heavier back then." To this day I'm so thankful I saw that, because the absurdity of it has kept me from falling into that trap of saying "Kid's these days..." that every generation falls into when they get old, because the last thing I'd want is feeling the embarrassment of saying that all the time and have someone point out that the very bunch of kids I'm calling worthless have been marching off for 20 years fighting a war I ask for, yes sir, sure am glad I don't have to feel that.
Lemay was necessary in WWII but his perspective was way off when nukes arrived. He either couldn’t grasp the concept of a nuclear war or was so warped that he didn’t care. If left to him we would have launched nukes a long time ago. Thank God they didn’t listen to him. He is a hero for his strategy in WWII, but he was a flaming lunatic when nuclear strategy was concerned b
2:50:09 this pilot's description of being shot down is both extremely humorous and interesting. His personality shines thru and he obviously has a great sense of humour as well as being very brave, just like the rest of the soldiers. 🫡
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😳
As a commercial pilot with over 10,000 flight hours I am amazed that the military sends fighter pilots to war with only a few hundred flight hours. I realize that the training is intense and specific to the mission, but that’s crazy. When I had 300 hours I was still nervous landing. Being able to make split second decisions while flying a literal rocket strapped between your legs with people chasing and shooting at you is insane.
The right stuff doesn’t begin to describe the skills, attitude and natural talent, not to mention balls, these fighter pilots had.
Today’s jocks are basically computer operations. They still need the balls, but the instinct aspect has been replaced by bytes and bits.
Vietnam veteran F4 pilot here. The F4 was a great plane but no one talks about the adverse yah and dihedral effects caused by the aileron and the spoiler. The snap rollaway was hurrendous. Lots of pilots lost their lives due to this.
Welcome home
First I want to Salute you and Thank you for your service. I do believe that if our Vietnam Phantom pilots had proper equipped phantoms and missiles that where reliable along with rules of engagement that Fighters use today, the ratio would have been overwhelming in our Favor.
when SAM75 missiles were able to shoot down about 20 pieces of B52, it seems that this happened in the period 73-74, the war immediately ended
From Russia ❤
Linebacker 2 1972
Stupid war
I have read a Lot of books regarding the Vietnam War ...Robert Mc Namara ( Department of Defense ) , was Hated by Fighter Pilots !
Vietnam vet and F4 training pilot here. Can confirm that we hated McNamara. He was a dueche nozzle.
Robert McNamara was in the department of defense.
Robert S. McNamara was Secretary of Defense from 1961 to 1968, and admitted that the second portion of the Gulf of Tonkin incident did not occur. It was essentially fabricated. He also admitted he might have been a war criminal. I urge anyone with an interest in McNamara to watch the Errol Morris film "The Fog of War," which is an interview with McNamara in the years not long before he died. It's an outstanding film.
@@wrxgenerationHe had nothing on that POS Lyndon the Liar.
McNamara drove Ford into the ground backing their stupid Ford Edsel that nearly bankrupted the company
So apparently the government felt he and his heartless spreadsheets were perfect for the job
Damned good video! I’m glad it was left unedited for those of us that understand how properly-placed-profanity gets the right attention!
One small laugh. The spot talking about tankers towing fighters to within gliding distance of there base shows an F-105. In that case gliding distance would be directly overhead of its base. Thurs could do just about everything EXCEPT glide.😊
thanks for creating and sharing
The phantoms was a great Fighter, the problem in Vietnam was the LBJ administration of BVR ONLY Doctrine but than they made the phantom pilots maneuver the phantoms for Dogfights when they wasn’t trained. However when you did have pilots who could maneuver the phantoms they would become ACEs . Captain Frank Ault did a report on this called the Ault Report, his findings was the missiles failed the majority of the time and pilots wasn’t properly trained. Dan Pedersen armed with this report stated a school to train these phantom pilots called Fighter weapons school or Top Gun now, these phantom pilots would than take the 2:1 ratio to 24:1 with the phantoms by the end of Vietnam. Why this new record is not discussed with the properly trained pilots, Is a mystery..
I flew over 100 sorties with captain frank
@@MrSimonw58 I salute you Sir , and Thank You For your Service! What a awesome experience that must have been..
Don't forget the spec of omitting the gun from the Phantom at its inception. Only the Air Force version (E model I believe) had a built in gun. The Navy tried with the very inaccurate gun pod slung on the centerline of the plane. Love the Phantom, but the Navy got it wrong all the way by relying on unreliable AIM9 and AIM7 missiles.
@@dawightg9787 You keep using "BVR" and "beyond visual range" (same thing, I know) but the doctrine in Nam required visual identification before engagement. This eliminated the use of the AIM7 as it was a medium range weapon. At what point in the war was BVR a doctrine? It was what the plane was capable of, but it was not used in Nam.
@@okayestguitar66
Yes, the Air Force's version was the F-4E with leading edge wing slats that traded some top end speed for a tighter turning radius, and also it was equipped with an internal General Electric M61 Vulcan cannon, and it didn't show up quite as late as people think, quite obviously they saw the need for it immediately because the first E variant flew in 1965 (not operationally, just flew), given the redesign and either production time, or if the first one's were conversions then the conversion time, it'd have taken that means they would have had to determined it's need no later than sometime in 64, having first flow in 65 I wouldn't think they'd have been operational in Vietnam later than 66, they already had plenty of F-4 crews at that point so getting a unit retrained on a variant couldn't have have taken too long, I'd think early 67 would be the latest that a unit would be flying with them over there but most likely 66 I'd think, even if the first E variant flew on the last day of 65 I'd still say most likely they had the first unit(s) in Vietnam in 66.
I've noticed in comments before about the E variant a lot of people obviously think it showed up "late" in the war (not that you did), even worst case scenario of sometime in 67 can't be considered late in the Vietnam War, that's mid way as far as the US's involvement over there goes.
But here's an interesting statistic, F-4's had 15.5 gun kills in Vietnam, but the F105's, an aircraft that people are always claiming doesn't qualify as a fighter, had 24.5 of it's 27.5 kills as gun kills in Vietnam, and that's why I tell people they're wrong when they claim the F-105 wasn't a fighter, not only was the vast majority of it's kills gun kills (89%) but it also holds the record in Vietnam for the most amount of gun kills by any US aircraft, now if that doesn't qualify it as a fighter I don't know what would.
Excelente video para aquellos que gustan saber sobre la aviación militar
What a Great video jammed pack with scientific/aerial physic information!!!!
It was a POLITICAL WAR. The U S forces had their hands tied. I was there 66,67 & 68.
Nothing was the US's fault, not from you guy's or even the people in Washington, your mission was to keep the north from invading the south which is exactly what you did, every time they tried while you guy's were there, Tet in 68 and the Easter Offensive in 72, you guy's handed them their asses, both were spectacular military defeats that are one's for the book, both times they had invasion forces that took them years to build up and put in place and both times they were destroyed within weeks after launching their offensives.
And with Tet the entire VC command structure was also smashed along with the North's military, from that point on the VC were no longer a singular military force with a command and control structure, not only were they reduced to rag tag individual village units but also after Tet the VC were more likely to surrender and could be turned much easier than before Tet, the SF guy's in the Phoenix Program whose job it was to do that said after Tet 80% of the VC they'd nab would turn just from asking them to, and even the more stubborn one's all they'd have to do is take them to downtown Saigon and show them that all the North's propaganda about how Americans owned all the businesses and how the South Vietnamese were nothing more than their slaves was all nonsense, one night out on the town taking them around drinking and carrying on and them seeing all the neon lights and stuff and they wanted some of that, the next thing you know they'd go back to their village and start sending nonsense intelligence those guy's fed them up the pipeline into the North.
No what happened in 75 wasn't your guy's fault, you left 2 years before that anyway, it's the South Vietnamese military's fault, after 10 years of being supplied and supported when it was time for them to put their big boy pants on and fight their own war themselves they're the one's that blew it, they had the equipment and the forces and should have been able to do the same thing to the North Vietnamese military that you guy's did, but their officer corps was corrupt and inept, they're the one's that let down the South Vietnamese people and lost their freedoms for them, not you guy's, you were 100% bad asses over there.
Hats off to Americas Thud pilots. The bravest of the brave. 388th AEMS Korat ECM Pods.
100 mission tours ! 😮 That's insane. Even raf pilots in ww2 didn't have to fly that many, iirc.
Anh add cho hỏi .Nước Mỹ đã mất bao nhiêu máy bay các loại trong chiến tranh VN???
Khoảng 3000 chiếc. Số liệu 2 bên có khác nhau
Can you tell me how many Vietnamese died in the war?
Mỹ tổn thất hơn 10 nghìn chiếc máy bay các loại.
Tính gộp cả liên minh của Mỹ là khoảng 12 nghìn máy bay bị loại khỏi cuộc chiến.
Máy bay không kích phantom F4 của Mỹ thiệt hại nhiều. Mỹ cứ sản xuất ra 8 chiếc F4 là bị bên Việt Nam bắn rơi 1 chiếc
@@XxDevin2xXwhy are you salty
@XxDevin2xX what's the point?
Mac was on a good day a PEDANTIC schoolboy that knew everything; understanding nothing, “skrowed-up” anything he dabbled at - which amounted to everything but it was always someone else’s fault.
Calling the F-104 the Thud was not affectionate. It referred to their frequent crashes. An Air Force magazine in the late sixtess ran an article called”The Thud is no Dud,”reacting to widespread disenchantment with the 105.
These training videos bring back memories of when i was stationed at HMAS Albatross navy air base many yrs ago in my time off on base i would go to the film room an watch these films 🎥 😀 👌 thanks for the memories ❤❤❤💋💋❤❤😃
You are giving a good official history, but ever since I read "About Face" as a 14 year old I've seen through much of the corporate storyline.
Great book, one of my favorites on the topic. For a different viewpoint, I highly recommend Sally Paine's excellent presentation "Who Lost the Vietnam War" here on RUclips, on the US Naval College channel if my memory serves me well. It's an interesting one, shedding light on how the US made strategic long-term decisions on geopolitics, especially regarding China and the USSR. I believe you will find it worthwhile, presuming you are educated on the Vietnam War. 🙂
Great vide
that's it we didn't unleash our full force on North Vietnam
"The wing man will need a degree of skill and proficiency which is gained only through practice." - @52:11
Back when the world respected skill gaining through practice.
This war was a waste of blood,and treasure just like the Korean war.
Korean War resulted in an emerging economic power of South Korea.
Fu*king BRILLANT!!! Thank you
Why didn’t they stick with the Super Saber??
F100 had short range and was accident prone. F105 was much faster, had a larger bomb capacity, very reliable and longer range.
How come this documentary does not mention the gulf of Tonkin as a "false flag" attack?
I wondered the same thing. That lie gave the president the authority to do anything they wanted. Absent that false flag operation things would be so much different. I was a senior in high school wher the cease fire was signed. We were all sure we would be drafted. We were ready to “do our duty” as our forefathers had.
Now that I know the truth, I don’t know what to think.
Stupidity by politicians let Vietnam win
Những kẻ xâm lược Mỹ dốt môn lịch sử mới đưa lính Mỹ đến VN..Anh đến trường có học hành 1 cách nghiêm túc k ? Hay anh cũng dốt môn lịch sử?
For the Americans, the purpose of war is not to win. But to make money (for a few elite insiders) for warring
So the conflicts drag on for decades without resolution
The government keeps borrowing money for it. Nixon had to let the private bankers off the gold standard to pay for it. Inflation and loss of constitutional protections is the result
For the Americans, the purpose of war is not to win. But to make money (for a few elite insiders) for warring
So the conflicts drag on for decades without resolution
The government keeps borrowing money for it. Nixon had to let the private bankers off the gold standard to pay for it. Inflation and loss of constitutional protections is the result
@@thanhthuyang9697we would’ve won had we been able to push into the north but that probably would’ve started ww3 or another Korean War type scenario we fought with our hands tied our objective was just to defend south vietnam hell we never even had an official declaration of war against them💀💀
@@user03104 completely pointless to “defend” south vietnam.
"Valuable lessons were gleamed...". Gimme a break!
Since the Vietnam war the 'endless' conflicts have on increased in size, scope and tempo!
The purpose: to profit from continual war.
P😢😢
Typical leftist Marxist view. Need to deprogram your Commie brainwashing
Growing up in the late 60's early 70's was about the same but my dad was in the WVANG as a C121 engineer and those guys came around the house and they were Gods to us. I couldn't fly military aviation, but I did 6500 hours in 26 years as an aerial survey pilot. Kids today can't boil water.
They can't?
I'd think as the son of a veteran you'd have a little more respect for the past TWO generations of kids that for 20 years continually martched off to a war that not a single one of them had to be drafted for, unlike WW2 where ⅔rds of them were drafted, and in Vietnam where ⅓rd were drafted (sounds to me like America's generations keep getting better), and if you recall it was a war we all ask for on Sept 11th 2001 and for quite some time after, we ask for it and they went off and fought it, even after things weren't looking so good they still continued going.
And I heard that same nonsense from America's "greatest generation" about the Vietnam era kids, "Kid's these days are worthless, they weren't even in a real war".
Reminds me of a single frame cartoon I saw in a Playboy magazine years and years ago back when I was in my 20's, two old skinny cavemen with long beards sitting on a bench and walking along in front of them was a young caveman with a big old rock hoisted up on his shoulder and the one old caveman saying to the other "Would you look at that, boy let me tell you ya couldn't do that back in our day, no sir, the rocks were much heavier back then."
To this day I'm so thankful I saw that, because the absurdity of it has kept me from falling into that trap of saying "Kid's these days..." that every generation falls into when they get old, because the last thing I'd want is feeling the embarrassment of saying that all the time and have someone point out that the very bunch of kids I'm calling worthless have been marching off for 20 years fighting a war I ask for, yes sir, sure am glad I don't have to feel that.
Criticize MacNamara ....but the alternative was Curtis Lemay. Curtis Lemay believed in limited nuclear warfare and there's no such thing.
Lemay was necessary in WWII but his perspective was way off when nukes arrived. He either couldn’t grasp the concept of a nuclear war or was so warped that he didn’t care. If left to him we would have launched nukes a long time ago. Thank God they didn’t listen to him.
He is a hero for his strategy in WWII, but he was a flaming lunatic when nuclear strategy was concerned b
Wow
You have riuned this brilliant documentary by applying annoying blurred background!
👍👍👍👍👍⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Charlie Brown could have achieved success.
It's nonsense to say the Airforce alone could achieve victory and say introduction of ground forces ca😮used... something...
Wow , no wonder america lost the war. It was all so stupid. . Right from the start .
Sounds like Ukraine. Can't hit this can't hit that don't want to escalate the war.
Catholicism, was the fall of Vietnam
Thank you , General Ritchie.
🫡
2:50:09 this pilot's description of being shot down is both extremely humorous and interesting. His personality shines thru and he obviously has a great sense of humour as well as being very brave, just like the rest of the soldiers. 🫡
The bane of war...chicken💩
Political hacks..