The foam surrounds are more pliable, softer, and thus more musical. This is critical in terms of transients in dynamic music for sound quality especially for subs, which require a lot more power than your typical 6.5'' mid. Its true that rubber is more durable than foam long term, but if your pushing your subs surround to the point that it snaps your subs ain't set right in the 1st place. Foam surrounds also create less back waves than rubber surrounds as well, another benefit for SQ subs.
The old, but tested and true JL W7 still using foam and it has to be that way for that amazing sound. Doesn't take 5,000 watts to get it movin. Man I love your videos. Keep up the good content.
Imo they are both equal when it comes to the surround on a subwoofer. Most of the time ppl aren't trying to blow the sub out of the box and create enough force to actually tear the surround. And the foam surround on today's subs is definitely strong enough for normal everyday listening. If someone is competing for spl and they are maxing out the excursion then a rubber surround could possibly help but with good subs probably not. Plenty of ppl compete with foam surrounds including myself and have never had an issue with it.
@@dannyharvey9334 Don't put words in my mouth. Speak for yourself. I said there's a reason why most SQ subs use foam surrounds. The brand's listed are off the dome and aren't in ranking order just examples.
@@andrewturner1860 I didn’t put anything in your mouth you put Sundown and JL in the same class by saying many more SQ subs you didn’t exclude sundown from the many more SQ subs so how is one supposed to interpret that?????? I going off what you put in your statement.
You misrepresented what I said by implying I said Sundown is = to JL in SQ. I didn't say that. I listed brands with foam surrounds I consider much better than Kicker in terms of SQ.
I noticed on my rubber Rockford t1 the surround is stiff . But the spider is weak .. on my American bass hawks. The foam is weak but 2 stiff spiders.. so maybe thats the connection. And compensation. Both seem to be awesome subs
Foam surrounds good to get the dbs but rubber surrounds create longevity never had any problems with rubber surrounds but foam surrounds that I've had never lasted as long as rubber
25 yrs ago I’d have 100% agreed but modern foam, rubber & blends are formulated for specific use whether one is superior is kinda academic, its all dependent on application. And there are bicycle tires currently being made of foam with an impressive wear rating. I wouldn’t be surprised to see airless foam car tires in our lifetime.
Foam just doesn't last as long as rubber surrounds. Just look at all the jl audio subs that have their cheap foam surround crumbling after 10 years in the a hot car.
You are always trying to talk up kicker. The only aspect the rubber is superior in is its durability. The proof is in the pudding, sundown is by far superior than kicker right now. Fact, it is what it is.
@@fusiondensity3287 yeah the boxes are nothing special. Same oh same oh. Its one thing to be a good host of a show and another to actually know car audio.
I think kicker is using the rubber surround as part of the suspension dampening and less spider , where sundown is relying on the spider to carry the suspension load . If you get the suspension real stiff the fs goes up and in order to combat that you need more power or a more powerful motor. Not defending either company, just what I’ve learned from burning them up , reconing them , adding spiders and running ts parameter test on Datsv3.
Sundown subs actually have Neoprene rubber surrounds which is a foam made of rubber. It's the same stuff used to make wet suits. The main advantages of it is its strong like rubber but more pliable like foam which improves the efficiency and sensitivity. The disadvantage of solid rubber surrounds is extruded rubber hardens with age and looses flexibility and start to crack just like your car tyres
I dont know where you got your infor.atuon from but its wrong. Bith high end. And lower tier use both as well as others. One isnt siperior then the other. They have different chatmracteriatic that make one or the other better for that specific sub. Here are the different materials used and the reasons why. Rubber surrounds enhance subwoofer performance with durability and high excursion levels. Cloth surrounds contribute to sound quality with their lightweight and rigidity. Foam surrounds minimize sound distortion by isolating vibrations. Synthetic rubber surrounds, like santoprene, balance durability and resonance control.
My l7 and l5 12s both tore in the corners. I bought the l7 because the l5 tore. Then the fucken l7 tore. Both lasted no longer then 2 months. So I bought a Sundown 12'' SA v1 and been tear free for over 5 years. All 3 subs on the same amp, Skar rp 2k.
I agree with you...same here..I had two 15” l7s on different occasions...but they don’t compare to the sundown Xs that followed. Personally I haven’t witnessed any kicker subwoofer whip a Sundown subwoofer. I know this guy has a point of contact in the kicker family so he cheers loud for them but the L7 is not hittin harder than any Sundown Pal. Sorry...just sayin
I've read a few comments where people reference sound quality with a correlated factor of the surround type. Again we fail to realise that speakers, in this case subs, are made up of many different parts with different functions which summate to give different parameters that give an idea of a subwoofer's performance. Rubber surrounds may have a slight superiority in strength, control and density per unit volume. But that in itself is a flawed analysis. I think they missed the concepts you tried to explain, that is, magnet size vs the actual motor strength effected on the voice coil and as well large surrounds vs excursion. As an engineer, I must say that you have great analytical thinking.
I wish the subwoofer companies would make it easier to run the speaker wire thru the back of the terminals. I run 2 e class sundown audios in a ported box. due to hole size of the box i had to run the speaker wire thru the back side of the terminals due to the hole. Running the wire normal will get caught when I am mounting the sub into the box
Really let's talk about boxes,,, let's talk about properly calculating Port size,, different materials to build boxes out of,,, things that you actually know about,,, unless you plan on making your own speakers
The Details are all in the TS Parameters that most people ignore when buying a sub or even building a box for one!.. The TS Parameter for Motor Force is "BL" and is measured in Newtons, It's funny how so many people badmouth Kicker and other companies like Rockford or Alpine and claim that their subs aren't as loud as this persons Sundown or American Bass, ect. when the Kicker or other sub has a higher BL factor (Sometimes even double of that monster sized sub they claim to be the best). Personally I use to hate Kicker when I was running Audiobahn but now love their amps and subs. A common misconception these days is "the bigger the motor, the better the sub" or "the more power the sub can handle, the louder it will be" or even "the bigger the surround, the louder the sub will be" and this is mostly fed by companies tricking you into spending money due to false information... There's a video here on youtube of a guy in a BMW with three Alpine Type R 10's powered by a JL Audio 1000/1 hitting 150+ db when other guys are spending thousands on systems that push 8k watts just to get a 148...
Foam is cheaper and also does not hold up to the power of the Sun as well as a rubber surround. My old 6x9’s learned that. Also if anything hits foam surround more likely to pierce it than rubber. Common things in a vehicle.
Foam is evolution..... Look at what shoe companies are doing with foam technology like Adidas brand Yeezys vs Nike old fashioned rubbered Jordans. Simply lighter stronger and more durable and made to be used in any situation. This is my analogy my friend, kicker is like Nike sundown is like Adidas. If I'm bearing more weight (magnet) I need softer shoes on my feet (cone) thus the higher I can jump 🤸
Foam is much, much better for Subwoofers than "rubber". Not only do the new foam formulas last much longer, but they're a superior product for large excursion drivers. They will allow you to have prodigious Xmax while keeping the cone centered, yet a "rubber" surround that will allow that amount of Xmax needs to have such a tight, rigid spider, that it will either inhibit or limit the Xmax, or if it isn't rigid, then the cone will rock, which can be pretty rough on your voice coil. Foam surrounds also have another attribute that is almost a necessity in a high quality Subwoofer driver and that is, unlike "rubber," you won't get "Suck-back" when the partial vacuum inside the cabinet acts on the surround and causes it to invert at high excursion levels. One other factor, not mentioned often, is that foam is self damping and reduces or terminates standing waves on the cone much better than "rubber". Finally, the actual cost difference in manufacturing is such an insignificant amount that it shouldn't be an issue.
Thats why I wanna try them ground zero gzn spl woofers. ribbed rubber and big power but I herd if you break em you cant get parts. so would a rubber surround have a lower Mms?
KICKER Q CLASS 8 PUSHES 500W RMS SUNDOWN X8 PUSHES 800W RMS Funny you said everything else about these subs EXCEPT for that small little detail. That additional 300W RMS is proof enough that the X8 will be louder than the Q class 8. Those are facts. I'd also like to mention the Q class 8 is a CHEAPER sub, meaning CHEAPER material. There is foam that is stronger than some rubbers, you do not know all of the material that's comprised on the surrounds, hence why you did a dumbed down comparison instead of comparing the actual materials in the surrounds. You do everything in your power to make kicker look so superior, especially to sundown, and it's why people shun you whenever you do it.
I know yous a godly man so i thought you'd like it brought to ur attnt just like id like it to brought to mine.. Ur boys got a little habit their of taking the Lord's name in vain.. @5:05. Just fyi cause im sure I dont promote nor Condon... Should peirce ur heart a little when u hear it.. Ok I'll go back to minding my own business n enjoying ur channel.. Peace I could be mistaken n young boy is actually ringing big guns upstairs but who knows. Thatd be my excuse if I were him..
That kicker coil will give out before that sundown coil will 🤣🤣,, This dude really pulled apart a piece of foam and rubber that has no connection to the subs wtf 🤣🤣
@@dannyharvey9334 kickers won't tolerate any trype of abuse ...not saying they should be abused but a. Better built product will tolerate and last long-term.....rubber surround get's loosen over time why isnt that pointed out? Any subwoofers parts get worn over time foam or rubber the examples this dude points out are ridiculous hes a kicker q class 8 nut hugger that wants a sponsorship to make there products look good..no hate on kicker but the ish this dude be saying on his video's is very laughable
![KSI - Thick Of It (feat. Trippie Redd) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/At8v_Yc044Y/mqdefault.jpg)
The foam surrounds are more pliable, softer, and thus more musical. This is critical in terms of transients in dynamic music for sound quality especially for subs, which require a lot more power than your typical 6.5'' mid. Its true that rubber is more durable than foam long term, but if your pushing your subs surround to the point that it snaps your subs ain't set right in the 1st place. Foam surrounds also create less back waves than rubber surrounds as well, another benefit for SQ subs.
Hey bro I’m old school ; in the game since 1990 when I was bit by the bug. Shop owner- installer - iasca competitor.
Foam Foam Foam.
Thanks bro this helped so much🙏
Wasn't sure if this was the right place but that intro speaks volumes!!
I always use rubbers
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 👍🏾👍🏾💥💥
The kicker L7 Q class is no entry level woofer. the weight for its size really amazed me.
The old, but tested and true JL W7 still using foam and it has to be that way for that amazing sound. Doesn't take 5,000 watts to get it movin. Man I love your videos. Keep up the good content.
Gottem in they feeling again boss 😂
Imo they are both equal when it comes to the surround on a subwoofer. Most of the time ppl aren't trying to blow the sub out of the box and create enough force to actually tear the surround. And the foam surround on today's subs is definitely strong enough for normal everyday listening. If someone is competing for spl and they are maxing out the excursion then a rubber surround could possibly help but with good subs probably not. Plenty of ppl compete with foam surrounds including myself and have never had an issue with it.
There is a reason why Fi, JL, Adire, Critical Mass, Sundown and many more SQ subs use foam surrounds btw.
Your saying sundown is SQ as JL? Lol ok
@@dannyharvey9334 Don't put words in my mouth. Speak for yourself. I said there's a reason why most SQ subs use foam surrounds. The brand's listed are off the dome and aren't in ranking order just examples.
@@andrewturner1860 I didn’t put anything in your mouth you put Sundown and JL in the same class by saying many more SQ subs you didn’t exclude sundown from the many more SQ subs so how is one supposed to interpret that?????? I going off what you put in your statement.
You misrepresented what I said by implying I said Sundown is = to JL in SQ. I didn't say that. I listed brands with foam surrounds I consider much better than Kicker in terms of SQ.
@@andrewturner1860 you mentioned them both in the same sentence and saying other sq subs also, but whatever man smh
You have a valid point , i would’ve never guessed that, so i guess we just have to pay attention to details in a woofer , i will keep that in mind ,
7:35 "It's called a 'pregnant pause'." Hilarious!
I knew this topic was coming!!🤣 I love it!!
I wonder if the newer surrounds these days are made of a mixture of both materials.
😂😂😂😂😂 go a mile on foam tires😂😂😂you right bro god bless👋👋
🤣🤣
I noticed on my rubber Rockford t1 the surround is stiff . But the spider is weak .. on my American bass hawks. The foam is weak but 2 stiff spiders.. so maybe thats the connection. And compensation. Both seem to be awesome subs
Fosgate two 8in HX3 subwoofers I like the sound. I want two more. Looking good.
Foam surrounds good to get the dbs but rubber surrounds create longevity never had any problems with rubber surrounds but foam surrounds that I've had never lasted as long as rubber
25 yrs ago I’d have 100% agreed but modern foam, rubber & blends are formulated for specific use whether one is superior is kinda academic, its all dependent on application. And there are bicycle tires currently being made of foam with an impressive wear rating. I wouldn’t be surprised to see airless foam car tires in our lifetime.
Very great. I was fooled for yrs. Not anymore.
Foam just doesn't last as long as rubber surrounds. Just look at all the jl audio subs that have their cheap foam surround crumbling after 10 years in the a hot car.
The spider has more strength and way more important than the surround....
Great point!
You are always trying to talk up kicker. The only aspect the rubber is superior in is its durability. The proof is in the pudding, sundown is by far superior than kicker right now. Fact, it is what it is.
@@fusiondensity3287 yeah the boxes are nothing special. Same oh same oh. Its one thing to be a good host of a show and another to actually know car audio.
I love rubber surrounds
Yes sir I hear you.
I think kicker is using the rubber surround as part of the suspension dampening and less spider , where sundown is relying on the spider to carry the suspension load . If you get the suspension real stiff the fs goes up and in order to combat that you need more power or a more powerful motor. Not defending either company, just what I’ve learned from burning them up , reconing them , adding spiders and running ts parameter test on Datsv3.
Good point
Sundown subs actually have Neoprene rubber surrounds which is a foam made of rubber. It's the same stuff used to make wet suits. The main advantages of it is its strong like rubber but more pliable like foam which improves the efficiency and sensitivity. The disadvantage of solid rubber surrounds is extruded rubber hardens with age and looses flexibility and start to crack just like your car tyres
I dont know where you got your infor.atuon from but its wrong. Bith high end. And lower tier use both as well as others. One isnt siperior then the other. They have different chatmracteriatic that make one or the other better for that specific sub. Here are the different materials used and the reasons why.
Rubber surrounds enhance subwoofer performance with durability and high excursion levels. Cloth surrounds contribute to sound quality with their lightweight and rigidity. Foam surrounds minimize sound distortion by isolating vibrations. Synthetic rubber surrounds, like santoprene, balance durability and resonance control.
I'm surprised you haven't unboxed any Soundqubed subs.
Not yet
Kicker love the video bro
My l7 and l5 12s both tore in the corners. I bought the l7 because the l5 tore. Then the fucken l7 tore. Both lasted no longer then 2 months. So I bought a Sundown 12'' SA v1 and been tear free for over 5 years. All 3 subs on the same amp, Skar rp 2k.
There’s always operator error.
I agree with you...same here..I had two 15” l7s on different occasions...but they don’t compare to the sundown Xs that followed. Personally I haven’t witnessed any kicker subwoofer whip a Sundown subwoofer. I know this guy has a point of contact in the kicker family so he cheers loud for them but the L7 is not hittin harder than any Sundown Pal. Sorry...just sayin
@@Finejunk1 I always run stout electrical and I used kicker prefabed boxes that it came in. Maybe the 2k was too much.
I've read a few comments where people reference sound quality with a correlated factor of the surround type. Again we fail to realise that speakers, in this case subs, are made up of many different parts with different functions which summate to give different parameters that give an idea of a subwoofer's performance. Rubber surrounds may have a slight superiority in strength, control and density per unit volume. But that in itself is a flawed analysis. I think they missed the concepts you tried to explain, that is, magnet size vs the actual motor strength effected on the voice coil and as well large surrounds vs excursion. As an engineer, I must say that you have great analytical thinking.
Thanks…I’m hoping to promote dialogue. No one has to totally agree with me. But dialogue is good, it grows the industry
I wish the subwoofer companies would make it easier to run the speaker wire thru the back of the terminals. I run 2 e class sundown audios in a ported box. due to hole size of the box i had to run the speaker wire thru the back side of the terminals due to the hole. Running the wire normal will get caught when I am mounting the sub into the box
More Kicker nut swinging! We all see it.
Really let's talk about boxes,,, let's talk about properly calculating Port size,, different materials to build boxes out of,,, things that you actually know about,,, unless you plan on making your own speakers
You disagree…cool. Thanks for the view.
The Details are all in the TS Parameters that most people ignore when buying a sub or even building a box for one!.. The TS Parameter for Motor Force is "BL" and is measured in Newtons, It's funny how so many people badmouth Kicker and other companies like Rockford or Alpine and claim that their subs aren't as loud as this persons Sundown or American Bass, ect. when the Kicker or other sub has a higher BL factor (Sometimes even double of that monster sized sub they claim to be the best). Personally I use to hate Kicker when I was running Audiobahn but now love their amps and subs.
A common misconception these days is "the bigger the motor, the better the sub" or "the more power the sub can handle, the louder it will be" or even "the bigger the surround, the louder the sub will be" and this is mostly fed by companies tricking you into spending money due to false information... There's a video here on youtube of a guy in a BMW with three Alpine Type R 10's powered by a JL Audio 1000/1 hitting 150+ db when other guys are spending thousands on systems that push 8k watts just to get a 148...
Talk to em MB💪
Foam is cheaper and also does not hold up to the power of the Sun as well as a rubber surround. My old 6x9’s learned that. Also if anything hits foam surround more likely to pierce it than rubber. Common things in a vehicle.
Well there's so much wrong with these points aside from the durability
Be nice if sundown used rubber on its top tier subs. I wo der how rubber acts when the surround is so big. The new l7 x has a big ass rubber surround.
Kickers motors much stronger and will provide a crisper cleaner sound as well
Foam is evolution..... Look at what shoe companies are doing with foam technology like Adidas brand Yeezys vs Nike old fashioned rubbered Jordans. Simply lighter stronger and more durable and made to be used in any situation. This is my analogy my friend, kicker is like Nike sundown is like Adidas. If I'm bearing more weight (magnet) I need softer shoes on my feet (cone) thus the higher I can jump 🤸
Foam is much, much better for Subwoofers than "rubber".
Not only do the new foam formulas last much longer, but they're a superior product for large excursion drivers. They will allow you to have prodigious Xmax while keeping the cone centered, yet a "rubber" surround that will allow that amount of Xmax needs to have such a tight, rigid spider, that it will either inhibit or limit the Xmax, or if it isn't rigid, then the cone will rock, which can be pretty rough on your voice coil. Foam surrounds also have another attribute that is almost a necessity in a high quality Subwoofer driver and that is, unlike "rubber," you won't get "Suck-back" when the partial vacuum inside the cabinet acts on the surround and causes it to invert at high excursion levels. One other factor, not mentioned often, is that foam is self damping and reduces or terminates standing waves on the cone much better than "rubber". Finally, the actual cost difference in manufacturing is such an insignificant amount that it shouldn't be an issue.
😂
Real spill foam will never be rubber and rubber will never be foam facts!
So can someone tell me after watching this am I correct for wanting to stay with my rockford fosgate p3 12'?
Salute💯
Thats why I wanna try them ground zero gzn spl woofers. ribbed rubber and big power but I herd if you break em you cant get parts. so would a rubber surround have a lower Mms?
KICKER Q CLASS 8 PUSHES 500W RMS
SUNDOWN X8 PUSHES 800W RMS
Funny you said everything else about these subs EXCEPT for that small little detail. That additional 300W RMS is proof enough that the X8 will be louder than the Q class 8.
Those are facts. I'd also like to mention the Q class 8 is a CHEAPER sub, meaning CHEAPER material.
There is foam that is stronger than some rubbers, you do not know all of the material that's comprised on the surrounds, hence why you did a dumbed down comparison instead of comparing the actual materials in the surrounds. You do everything in your power to make kicker look so superior, especially to sundown, and it's why people shun you whenever you do it.
😂😂😂4K views? Shun?😂😂😂😂…man Sundown a great subwoofer , you feel better 😁
nothing worst than someone smacking their gum while doing a video 🤦
Rubber surrounds last much longer than foam surrounds, at least in an automotive environment where temperatures are constantly going high and low.
This video is filled with fallacies! Correlation does not equal causation! Complete fail!
You disagree…. Cool. Thanks for the view.
@@M.B.Enclosures
It’s not that I disagree. Science disagrees with your assumptions and opinions.
I know yous a godly man so i thought you'd like it brought to ur attnt just like id like it to brought to mine.. Ur boys got a little habit their of taking the Lord's name in vain.. @5:05. Just fyi cause im sure I dont promote nor Condon... Should peirce ur heart a little when u hear it.. Ok I'll go back to minding my own business n enjoying ur channel.. Peace I could be mistaken n young boy is actually ringing big guns upstairs but who knows. Thatd be my excuse if I were him..
That kicker coil will give out before that sundown coil will 🤣🤣,, This dude really pulled apart a piece of foam and rubber that has no connection to the subs wtf 🤣🤣
Kicker coil will only give out if you don’t follow instructions, kickers don’t need 3 gigawatts of power to get max output.
@@dannyharvey9334 kickers won't tolerate any trype of abuse ...not saying they should be abused but a. Better built product will tolerate and last long-term.....rubber surround get's loosen over time why isnt that pointed out? Any subwoofers parts get worn over time foam or rubber the examples this dude points out are ridiculous hes a kicker q class 8 nut hugger that wants a sponsorship to make there products look good..no hate on kicker but the ish this dude be saying on his video's is very laughable
@@dannyharvey9334 make a big ass box to make up for the performance..ok lol for the space he uses for a 8 he could run a 10"
FACTS NOT FICTION!!!!
Fact not fiction! You hurting people's feelings man!😂 Keep up the good content MBE!!