I really miss those tracker days! The things I know now about music would have been really useful back then. I used to use ProTracker STe and Octalyser. In this video you can clearly hear the benefit of using the Atari STE. Tomas Danko such nice songs!
Well, it did, but only when playing back with TCB, the replay code had no support for volume and effects. Standard soundtracker replay was a lot more efficient anyway, TCB replay took far too much processor time.
it's not Native, it'e emulated. Atali STE got 2 analog filters before che audio out, clearly there are no folters in this reproduction. I composed with it for many years. And the best ones are Octalyzer (coz can play 8 channels) and Audiosculputer (coz can support very high frequancies). Paula Audio wasn't bad, we all loved that peculiar sound, but it was too alterated for my hears, it wasn't what I was listening before the sampling.
@@leoingson Yeah... really the ST had to jump through hoops already to even replay 4 tracks at a decent rate, we were probably quite lucky to get any sample tracker software.
From what I've read, (and I think someone with some of the 8+ channel trackers for Amiga could possibly confirm as well) that the additional channels take up CPU time and and memory being done in software after 4 or 8. So you may have to reduce the sample/output rate (meaning going lower than 22KHz).
On the 68060 I could do 64 channels at 44.1kHz/14bit mixing using AHI without any hickup I. didn't ever try more channels, or doing same on the 68030, though.
The only MOD I ever made (a M.U.L.E. theme one) was done using Digi Composer on an STe. Decided I'd stick w/ MIDI and real synths/drum machines after that!
Does anyone have a working copy of the Atari STe Octalyser? I made the early version opening graphic for it back in the 90's (an octopus coming out of an egg I think it was), and would love to see it again.
Hi Dan, the version of Octalyser with your logo is v0.81 (the first was 0.5b). You can get it here (and the other versions are also available if you browse the site): demozoo.org/productions/96019/ However I need to update this video some day with more trackers and better recordings.
It's no problem to calculate the samples in realtime with cpu/dsp, and let them be played by the hardware (STE/Amiga). You will lose one bit resolution for each doubling of channels, though. Let's say you want to play 2 channels on 1 hardware channel: add the sample values and divide by 2 (shift 1 to the right).
Well, it is not as easy as you think. There is also different sampling rate and volume involved. Not to mention music commands. Amiga Paula is doing all this in hardware that is why replay routine can only use minimal cpu, while ATARI STE has only 2 Digital-Analog converters, which can only play the sample at certain sampling rate (50,25 or 12,5kHz), everything else must be done by CPU which eats a lot of CPU cycles and it involves a lot of trickery which lowers the final quality of certain tracker commands. From the other hand ATARI STE has much better analog output, so if you understand the limitations and advantages you can prepare the module which would sound better on STE than on Amiga.
The Amiga example doesn't sound as muffled as real Amigas often used to do - could it be that this example is from an Amiga emulator that doesn't have the usual Amiga low-pass filter?
Possibly so, or maybe it was recorded from an Amiga 1200, which is the only Amiga that has sharp sound (the low-pass cutoff is like ~28-32kHz on that machine, vs. ~5kHz on all the others).
Recorded from real hardware or emulation? My STe playing this same track under DBE Tracker 1.08 doesn't sound quite as clear. Occasional pop and clicks.
you know whats funny? Back then the ST noisetacker was the inferior one, but today if I would implement soundtrack to a "80s" style movie, I would pick the Noisetracker sound from this video. For me it sounds most "authentic", if you know what I mean.
Well, obviously none can reach the Amiga'sPaula, so no surprise there, But I am susprised to see, that 25kHzs mixing sounds better than 50kHz mixing, because of the very annoying chirping artifacts at 50kHz. It's so wonderful, what ingenous coders could do back then, even making devices play sampled sound, that never where intended to! :) I really miss this innovation and cleverness in the sterile and boring modern PC world. Instead of ingenuity the motto now is 'Buy new stuff!'. Terrible!
Paula has pathetic range, you can clearly hear it. And those samples are 25kHz native, if the STE MODs would use 50kHz samples, Paula would be ashamed in corner...
I wish I had know about this when I had an Atari ST....I would have LOVED it.
damn noisetraker 2.0 recording sounds SOOOO fuckking crunchy, especially when the bass comes in XD (6:40)
I really miss those tracker days! The things I know now about music would have been really useful back then. I used to use ProTracker STe and Octalyser. In this video you can clearly hear the benefit of using the Atari STE. Tomas Danko such nice songs!
Well, it did, but only when playing back with TCB, the replay code had no support for volume and effects. Standard soundtracker replay was a lot more efficient anyway, TCB replay took far too much processor time.
it's not Native, it'e emulated. Atali STE got 2 analog filters before che audio out, clearly there are no folters in this reproduction. I composed with it for many years.
And the best ones are Octalyzer (coz can play 8 channels) and Audiosculputer (coz can support very high frequancies). Paula Audio wasn't bad, we all loved that peculiar sound, but it was too alterated for my hears, it wasn't what I was listening before the sampling.
Is there a Atari tracker that controls MIDI? aka one where you'd be able to sequence a hardware sampler/synth? If not, why?
Give Cubase a try if u havent yet after 2 years lol
What a cool music track here!
Shame TCB Tracker has it's own format - that was always my favorite, seemed the clearest tracker to use, esp the STE version.
Yep, but had no channel volume control on ST. Maybe that's why.
@@leoingson Yeah... really the ST had to jump through hoops already to even replay 4 tracks at a decent rate, we were probably quite lucky to get any sample tracker software.
@@stunthumb In-depth comment below: ruclips.net/video/pfMrvI2sg90/видео.html&lc=Ugw5_KY9o1VBz2xG8794AaABAg.8GcL77IvYzK8Na1nZHqkkS
@@stunthumb didnt trackers started on ST, actually?
From what I've read, (and I think someone with some of the 8+ channel trackers for Amiga could possibly confirm as well) that the additional channels take up CPU time and and memory being done in software after 4 or 8. So you may have to reduce the sample/output rate (meaning going lower than 22KHz).
On the 68060 I could do 64 channels at 44.1kHz/14bit mixing using AHI without any hickup I. didn't ever try more channels, or doing same on the 68030, though.
Hmmmm, it's been so long I'm probably mistaken - it did have effects that only worked inside TCB, maybe I've assumed volume was part of that.
The only MOD I ever made (a M.U.L.E. theme one) was done using Digi Composer on an STe. Decided I'd stick w/ MIDI and real synths/drum machines after that!
That DBE tracker seems amazing - apparently it can do 32 channels on an STe??
The reference should be from Atari Falcon030.
.
Amiga is out!
Miesiu K
Yeah I'll buy that for a dollar 💵
@@hardcore8uk tell me where :D it's a very rare piece. In this moment there are not Falcons for sale online.
Lmao what a jokester 😂
You'll have to add Hextracker in there now ;)
Does anyone have a working copy of the Atari STe Octalyser? I made the early version opening graphic for it back in the 90's (an octopus coming out of an egg I think it was), and would love to see it again.
Hi Dan, the version of Octalyser with your logo is v0.81 (the first was 0.5b). You can get it here (and the other versions are also available if you browse the site): demozoo.org/productions/96019/
However I need to update this video some day with more trackers and better recordings.
evldhsmisc Awesome, thanks!!
ProTracker STe sounds every bit as good as the Amiga. (IMHO) I also owned both machines...
but you forget to say that the Amiga gave you red bumps. :D
@@fedepede04 Haha
Yes, but the TCB tracker on the ST had no volume per channel, just pure sample playback. Was obvious in the GrodanKvakKvak(sp?) demo sound.
I wonder how much, though? If you could even get 8 or 12 channels in a game, and maybe reserve 2 or 3 for sound effects... that'd be amazing!
It's no problem to calculate the samples in realtime with cpu/dsp, and let them be played by the hardware (STE/Amiga). You will lose one bit resolution for each doubling of channels, though. Let's say you want to play 2 channels on 1 hardware channel: add the sample values and divide by 2 (shift 1 to the right).
Well, it is not as easy as you think. There is also different sampling rate and volume involved. Not to mention music commands. Amiga Paula is doing all this in hardware that is why replay routine can only use minimal cpu, while ATARI STE has only 2 Digital-Analog converters, which can only play the sample at certain sampling rate (50,25 or 12,5kHz), everything else must be done by CPU which eats a lot of CPU cycles and it involves a lot of trickery which lowers the final quality of certain tracker commands. From the other hand ATARI STE has much better analog output, so if you understand the limitations and advantages you can prepare the module which would sound better on STE than on Amiga.
the STE had 4 playing rates, 6khz 12.5khz, 25khz, and 50khz
@@trachu3185 Thanks a lot for the comprehensive explanation. After all those years ;-)
The Amiga example doesn't sound as muffled as real Amigas often used to do - could it be that this example is from an Amiga emulator that doesn't have the usual Amiga low-pass filter?
Possibly so, or maybe it was recorded from an Amiga 1200, which is the only Amiga that has sharp sound (the low-pass cutoff is like ~28-32kHz on that machine, vs. ~5kHz on all the others).
J'avais payé à l'epoque pour Dbe Tracker :)
Recorded from real hardware or emulation? My STe playing this same track under DBE Tracker 1.08 doesn't sound quite as clear. Occasional pop and clicks.
DBE Tracker is winner I think.
pro tracker STE and Octalyser STE sound better than all
Protracker 2.3d sound better then Protracket STe & Octalyser STe
Maybe later versions had volume control, my hadn't - compare /watch?v=LyVKCT_otZY
you know whats funny? Back then the ST noisetacker was the inferior one, but today if I would implement soundtrack to a "80s" style movie, I would pick the Noisetracker sound from this video. For me it sounds most "authentic", if you know what I mean.
Yeah, but loses quality as more channels gets added.
Well, obviously none can reach the Amiga'sPaula, so no surprise there,
But I am susprised to see, that 25kHzs mixing sounds better than 50kHz mixing, because of the very annoying chirping artifacts at 50kHz.
It's so wonderful, what ingenous coders could do back then, even making devices play sampled sound, that never where intended to! :)
I really miss this innovation and cleverness in the sterile and boring modern PC world. Instead of ingenuity the motto now is 'Buy new stuff!'. Terrible!
Paula has pathetic range, you can clearly hear it. And those samples are 25kHz native, if the STE MODs would use 50kHz samples, Paula would be ashamed in corner...
@@madigorfkgoogle9349 I was talking about this video and you?