Fire & Ice (1983) Explored - How An Amazing Sword & Sorcery Film Flopped To Become A Cult Classic
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Disney created and released a lot of animated movies in the seventies, but by the 80s, they became more focused on live-action films. Naturally, there was a demand and supply gap in the market for animated films. This was the time when several different production houses came forward to provide an alternative to Disney’s sweet musicals. While many made films as sugary sweet as Disney, the others figured out that animated films did not have to be just for children. In every list of such revolutionaries, the names of Ralph Bakshi and Frank Frazetta do seem to appear. While Bakshi was the man behind pieces of art such as Fritz the Cat and Wizards, Frazetta is known for his cover photos of several Conan The Barbarian comics. The two of them co-produced a rotoscopic masterpiece in 1983 named Fire and Ice. Although it tanked at the box office, it later became a cult classic, something that fans have been craving for ever since. Now, before we go into our explanation, let me brief you about what rotoscoping is. Well, it’s basically a movie-making style where actors are filmed on a sound stage, and then the resulting film is hand-drawn frame-by-frame as reference points for the animators. Although a tedious and dexterous process, the results are thrilling! In this video, we will explore the 1983 film with sorcerers, giant lizards, brave warriors, and an enticing princess, before detailing why this film deserves more love than it receives. Let’s begin, shall we?
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I saw this in theaters when it released back in August of 83. I was 7 and was dropped off at a theater with my older brother and cousin. This was typical for the 80s. We left the theater completely blown away by what we saw and when my Mom picked us back up she asked did you enjoy your cartoon? WE SURE DID!!!
That’s an awesome memory. Thanks for sharing.
I was also 7 and my Dad took me to see this.
I feel like there was a lot of inappropriate movie-watching back then. My mom went WITH US to see Dune in 1984 when I was 5, and we just ended up leaving in the middle of it because of how scary/gross the floating-chair guy was.
@@thatwasprettyneat I was 8 when Dune came out and I kept asking my Mom in the theater what was going on and she replied "I have no idea".....LOL! I appreciated the film much more once I was a teenager and could understand it.
You were 7 in 83? You're hella old...you must be my age...or a year younger.😉
Frank Frazetta one of the greatest illustrators to grace us with his beautiful art. Frank is the man who made Conan The Barbarian's look so amazing he did the painting for this awesome film. Ralph the director said that the artists were so intimidated because this was based on a Frazetta painting that he had to claim them down because they felt like they wouldn't do him justice. Own this film and love it. We need to return to this style of art in films again before it's lost.
I used to have a book of Frank Frazzetas illustrations. Pretty cool
Actually, in an abandoned sequence, it was revealed that Necron was Dark Wolf's son, thus explaining why he could resist Necron's powers.
I never knew that - thank you for sharing it! 😎
...Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! XDDD
Where can that statement or the like be found?
@@swedichboy1000 i believe it was a documentary called “painting with fire” Sean Hannon did say that Darkwolf was Nekron's father, but Bakshi & the filmmakers decided to drop this (it was never filmed, mind you - only written in the earliest drafts of the script), and make it open to speculation in the film, so technically he was supposed to be, but in the final release version he isn’t.
@@kymo6343 You arre the father!
I discovered this movie in 2020. My mind was blown by the technical feat of the animation.
Side note, Frazettas son owns a horror shop in East Stroudsburg PA. Right in the town I grew up in. Met Frank in person multiple times.
I prefer this style of animation vs the CGI and computer animated films these days, it brings out the characters more.
CGI sucks. Puppets and claymation is where its at. Its actually real.
I cannot agree more. I hate when people say thing I agree 100% 😁
Same
Have you seen Arcane? Having been a huge fan of the likes of Heavy Metal the Movie, Arcane has blown me away with its style.
Not only to us adults but also to the younger generation. My son likes the old cartoons 70s-90s TMNT and Scooby Doo Adventures.
I was born in 1983. I was TODAY years old when I first heard of this movie.
I'm shocked to hear that this was a flop.
I remember watching this on WHT Cable back in the day and loved it, especially being that it followed that Conan the Barbarian sword and sorcery blueprint.
The animation was groundbreaking, but obviously not appreciated, until decades later.
The animation was somewhat similar to the Heavy Metal cartoon of the 80s, which I loved as well.
In any case, Fire and Ice was dope, back then and today. 👍
Wht!!.I haven’t thought about that channel in well over 30yrs.I can still remember trying to watch scrambled Star Wars when I was 9
@@cheddarcheese7928 🤣👍
Unfortunately a lot of similar projects flopped and then became classics. For me Korgoth of Barbaria is saddest of such flops, they release one episode it flopped just to become absolutely beloved classic few years later.
Why? With all of the sword & sorcery films that were released in the 80s, it was only natural that some of them would flop.
I watched this for the first time yesterday (probably why this was recommended to me) and I was blown away by it. It's been completely stuck in my head.
Now I've got a hunger for more sword and sorcery stuff, and I'm not really sure where to look. I was born in 92 growing up on more Tolkien-esque fantasy, so this is quite fresh to me.
Look for the comics: Savage sword of Conan. It has all the sword and sorcery you need.
Paleo-Batman, young He-Man and a near-naked Disney princess kidnapped by Vampire Queen. Bakshi troped out fully here!!
Wow, this is top tier writing ✍️ here, you took all the comparisons possible and matched them so brilliantly.
Ralph Bakshi and Frank Franzetta. A match made in animation heaven.
Ralph Bakshi is needed today. His style would reinvigorate Hollywood
You gotta purge some of the commies there first if you want creativity lol.
I wouldn't want Hollywood to touch jems like this because it would probably fill the film with propaganda and replace the hero with a strong woman of color. 😂
@@black-bear8781 You got me there. Independent it must be then or crowd funded.
I finally discovered this movie for myself about three years ago and instantly fell in love with everything about it from the beautiful artwork to the (not counting the opening) show-not-tell storytelling.
Always loved this movie. One of the best sword and sorcery genre films
Kelly Ann, you have a secret admirer.
I wholly agree with you Kelly. I'm lucky enough to have a copy of it on DVD.
@@scruffylookingNerfherder5742 I'm swinging by with a bag of good and my "Heavy Metal" DVD.
@@damedan9389 You bring the popcorn I'll bring the beer.
v: ư
I read in a Frazetta biography that Darkwolf was Necron's Dad. Also, the film had a limited budget, so much was cut in preproduction. There was also, (supposedly), 10 to 15 minutes that was cut from the finished film for pacing. But some scenes i heard that were cut, was more interaction between Tiegra and Larn, ect.
One thing you failed to mention was that Tiegra resembled Frazetta's Vampirella, whom he co-created in 1969. Frazetta was known for creating buxom women, particularly brunettes, on his covers. If the film had been more successful, there might of been a sequel, or even a whole new antimated movie. Sad to say that it didn't happen. 😥
God I watched this movie a million times when I was a kid. I was too little to fully realize the sexual part of it but I was mesmerized by how badass Darkwolf was and the final fight with Necron. Good times.
Fire & Ice is such a Great Movie, I watched it on Amazon Prime before it changed to Prime Video, love to watch it again soon. 🙂🙂🙂👍👍👍
Larn: I have to fight Demons, evil warlords and save the world I can't do it!!
Conan:.....Hold my beer boy💪🗡💪
Frazetta makes everything better.
What an amazing movie.
“NEKRON!!!”
Excellent video! Just watched the movie for the first time. I was surprised how little dialogue was in it. Anyway, great synopsis.
I've been watching this AND Heavy Metal REGULARLY since I was 6 years old. In fact, these two movies are my go to for creative energy while I'm creating my own comic.
The first two books I ever read were "Buratino and the Golden Key" by Lev Tolstoy, and "Jurassic Park" by Michael Crichton. I started reading shortly after first grade, when I was 7.
Those really shaped me in the long term.
Such an underrated masterpiece
Ralph Bakshi is my hero and a huge positive influence in my life.
I love this movie since day one. Now in HD its like watching an enterily new movie. The scene were Roleil is pleadding Larn to avenge her, remains in my mind since the first time I watched.
The animation style reminds me of other movies like The Hobbit or Starchaser: The Legend of Orin. Especially the fight scenes.
Also, why censor it when her clothes are clearly still on her?
youtube hates boobies, thats probably why... but yeah she is always wearing a bikini so the censorship seem ridiculous.
I'd love to give Starchaser: Animated Movie a try, hope it still online to buy or on any sort of streaming site they have it on. 🙂🙂🙂👍👍👍
did you notice that the censor is random, at one point it's censoring a patch of ice, lol
@@peterstrong772 Yes, I did notice that.
If you like this movie rotoscopic style, there is recent film 'The Spine of Night.' Crazy trip of a movie and unique comic bases where it spins off in it's on story. Like I said, a crazy trip for this kind of style is a good combo.
Also check out 'Undone'.. great use of rotoscoping but very different subject matter
Hey gentle-ghoul, thanks for the tip!
Classic animated film, wish we got more films like this one, Heavy Metal, Rock and Rule, etc.
I remember my father renting this film for us as kids back in the late '80s. He didn't have a problem with it.
One of my all time favorite movies ! Ralph Backshi movies never fail to entertain
Bought the DVD years ago. Heavy Metal, The Plague Dogs, Watership Down, and The Lord of the Rings are also my favorites.
I would argue that Larn is more of a damsel in distress than Tigra
If you've ever seen a film called The Ninth Configuration, there is a villain that appears at the climax - a biker bully. The actor who plays him is the same guy who was rhotoscoped over to be Darkwolf...
He was also in a movie called Stryker from 1983.
I remember seeing the VHS cover in movie stores back in the day. Never seen the movie and this video just made me add it to my wishlist.
It's on Tubi right now
Me too I remember seeing in in movie time video lol 😅 never seen it, plan on checking it out tomorrow at some point.
Man rotoscope style was the greenscreen world, before CGI world building like 'Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.'
great trip down memory lane.. i remember seeing it in the theater in NJ late summer '83 - and thinking it was a totally mess... and proceeded to completely forget it for 30 years - and came back across it again several years ago - and enjoyed it more now than back then... fun piece of history and worth remembering.
Fire and Ice, Rock and Rule, and Brazil - staples of the 80s Showtime "Did I dream that movie I saw half asleep at 2am? Cause I never heard of it and its the most batshit thing I ever saw..." lineup.
A true classic I love everything and anything associated with Frank Frezeti
I remember seeing that film when I was 16-17 years old and loved. Then by a late night watching cable many, many years later I came across it in all it's uncut glory and fell in love with it again. Girl was still sexy as well.
My parents rented this for me in the 80s thinking it was a harmless cartoon. & that’s how I leaned where babies come from.
One thing that was nice about this movie...was that I actuary found A vhs copy in the mid 80's. Whereas...you had to find someone with an illegal copy of Heavy Metal and Wizards for the longest time.
Please, please, PLEASE, do the whole Bakshi catalog! I have been a huge fan of "American Pop" and "Wizards", (another hottie in it) yet rarely hear anything about them, as it seems "Cool World" (yes, Holly) is paraded as Bakshi's 'best' work. As someone who works with music, "American Pop" is his best. Four generations of musicians and their family, friends, fate and/or success in the world of labels, promoters, and..just catching a break. I am going to watch "Fire and Ice", when I can. Looks good from your synopsis. At least, I know what to expect. It's a Ralph Bakshi. 'Nuff said.✌😸
I saw this film a few months back and sent it to my mom! We love Frank Frazetta's artwork, so this was a treat!
Fire and Ice was amazing. There is really nothing else like it, but if you loved Fire and Ice then you should definitely check out Wizards (which you probably already have).
Bakshi's films are awesome!
They are among the greatest animated films
Yes, this movie was cool
Ok.
I'll subscribe to your channel because I Iiked the way you asked politely.
Plus I love this movie so much.
Thanks for covering it.
Keep up the good work.
Peace.
I grew up with and have personal theory on the red haired witch. I think with her curse on Necron that lead to victory for the lava city.
I remember this movie. I remember when my dad bought Fire and Ice on VHS
This title is a must in any blue ray DVD collection. I have watched this movie way over ten times and I never grow tired of it. The art is amazing and frazetta is one of the best artist of our time.
The animation in this movie never ceases to amaze me.
Dark Wolf=Molly Hatchet album cover
Now I gotta see this. Great video
The Warcraft character, Rexxar, bears an uncanny resemblance to Dark Wolf. I wouldn't be surprised if the OG nerds at Blizzard drew inspiration from this movie
Dark Wolf is based on Deathstalker
I.nust disccovered this movie yesterday. With almost a lifelong history in things like Fantasy/Sci Fi/ DnD, I'm surprised I have never heard of it. Now I want a sequel.
I saw this film as a 12 year old in the theater. I don't remember the story being earth shattering, but it was the first time I saw a "Cartoon" feature blood, death, bodily functions, and sexuality. For that, it was a whole new paradigm for my young mind.
What bodily function?
@@Craig-pm2kc there is a scene were one of the thugs who kidnapped the princess goes off screen to relieve himself. They added sound effects. The idea they acknowledged this at all was different than any cartoon I had seen at the time.
My brother and I saw it in the theater. Yup we were teenagers and didn't expect what we saw. However, it was awesome.
Really glad you brought this up. Haven't seen this in eons. Lol. It's on Tubi. FYI
Yoooo I remember this, I had this on DVD way back in 2005😂
My dad had this vhs and I remember watching this as a kid in the early 90s. Brings back good memories.
godamn this is amazing would love a remake of this. the barbaric aesthetic is jsut such a great setting
Frazetta was the best. My favorite artist, a true master
@Jay Hacker I always enjoyed BWS art too, particularly his black and white work in the old Conan magazines, but he is no Frazetta
Do a quick story about colossus from the X-Men. Such a odd character. Still a decent story ☺️🙃
Written by Roy Thomas and Gerry Conway. Both prolific Marvel Comics writers and editors in the 70s. This is when the writers were branching out into Hollywood. Conway went on to do much on network television and Thomas was the understudy and heir to Stan Lee at Marvel Comics and is a writing legend (across genres) then and now. (I believe they also wrote Schwarzenegger's Conan 2).
I watched this movie a while ago and was a bit confused, but liked the animation. Thanks for the explanation ☺️
Actually, in an abandoned sequence, it was revealed that Necron was Dark Wolf's son, thus explaining why he could resist Necron's powers.
Omg I've never seen this movie all the way through but it made an impression on my childhood cause I walked in on my grandfather pleasuring himself to this movie
Wtf
@@MultiSuperguy101 yeah, growing up my grandfather was my hero and we lived with him. I was about 7 but I ran into his room and for what ever reason I never forgot that moment to the point I even remeber the scene the movie was on.
ok like 30 years ago i got this for my son , he was like 8 at the time and he loved it , he even said is that ( darkwolf ) wolverines grandapa , i could not help my self but to smile
I always felt Darkwolf was like a prehistoric batman,then again I was a kid.
@@darkcyborgsuperman9521 absolutely 🙂
Take me back to grade school
I watched it at a sci-fi convention in Dallas decades ago, and I was blown away by it. Always a favorite of mine.
I still have this movie on VHS and watch it everytime my nephew come over
I used to own this on VHS. Still one of my favorites
I saw it in a discount bin on DVD for 10 bucks.
@@dcmastermindfirst9418 definitely a steal....
'Undone' on Amazon uses rotoscoping and works really well, particularly with all the mind bending trippiness of the story. The technique took me back to Fire & Ice, so it's nice to see it being used in more modern releases
As a teen in the 80's who was into role-playing games like AD&D,¹ discovering this on VHS was miraculous. When it came to _quality_ fantasy films, it was a vast empty wasteland back then. Save for rare exceptions like *_Conan the Barbarian,_* what fantasy we did have, was primarily trash.
When not actively watching, or sharing it with friends, I can't tell you how often I'd just have this on in the background² as I worked on characters, worlds or painted miniatures.
Thanks for making a video on this! 🙋🏼♂️
··●✺●··
¹ ─ Also, _Gamma World, Traveller,_ etc.
² ─ I tried to tell you, but the room would shake violently and I kept dropping my phone.
Dude same! Fire and Ice plus The Lord of the Rings animation were favourites for movie night back i n the day....
Really? I disagree. The 80s produced quite a few fantasy films like Flight of Dragons, The Last Unicorn, The Neverending Story, Willow, The Beast Master, Return to Oz, The Labyrinth, The Dark Crystal, The Black Cauldron, and Lady Hawke. Not to mention several beloved cartoon series. It wasn't *that* devoid.
@@bezoticallyyours83 I specifically specified *_"quality"_* fantasy films. Which is subjective. I wouldn't change my comment, save perhaps adding *Dragonslayer* to my list of solid quality fantasy films.
*Ladyhawk* _might_ have been on that list, had the music been less cringy. It makes that film downright painful to watch IMO.
@@CaesiusX Six of those I mentioned are major and minor classics of the era.
Admittedly I haven't seen Black Cauldron, Beast Master and Lady Hawke in years, but I remember enjoying 2 of them.
But if you're gonna sit there and tell me that Neverending Story, Willow, the 2 Rankin/Bass films and 2 of the Henson films are garbage that no one liked, you're either full of it, or you're trolling.
@@CaesiusX Saying that the 80s were a barren wasteland of fantasy films, is like saying that the 2000s are a barren wasteland of superhero films. Not all of them are going to be good, but that's the same with any genre.
Glenn Danzig is a fan and produced a series comic books. One called Jaguar God and looked very similar to Darkwolf but with a Jaguar skin head piece.
This was such an amazing film to watch when I was a teen, along with Heavy Metal and Wizards! Great favorites of mine.
A song of Ice and Fire
I love this animated movie. It was definitely under rated in it's day. I still watch it on DVD or on streaming TV whenever I can find it. It's really good.
I had this on VHS. Must have watched it a million times. Wonderful
I'd love to see this style used again.
There’s just something about rotoscoped films I like… don’t know or understand why🤷🏻♂️
Me too, and I also enjoyed the rotoscoping in the computer roleplaying game Betrayal at Krondor.
That drawing of Conan, at the beginning, was done by Barry Windsor Smith.
This show is amazing. I owned it on VHS as a kid and later DVD. I watch it every few years.
I’m one of the many fans of this classic. I’m surprised you didn’t hit on Nekron’s coming across as clearly gay, a big risk back then. Why was Queen Juliana not seeing why her son wants nothing to do with Teegra. When he tells Lorn “You interest me.” Then they have a “Sword fight”? This all happens in plain sight.
Only just discovered this gem thanks to this video. Good god what a classic.
I remember watching this on VHS. It quickly became one of my most watched movies.
Bakshi is a badass. Happy to have some of his original artwork.
This is a great film. I remember being blown away by the animation back in the day. Another great sci-fi animation from this time is a movie called Light Years, or Gandahar.
Loved this film...
Keep in mind PG13 didn't exist until 1984-5 so it was either PG or straight to R, when this was released in 1982.
So you know , twice when you mentioned Frank Frazetta , you displayed other artists art , namely , Barry Windsor Smith and John Buscema.
One of my all time favorite films
I’ve never heard of this film but now watching this review I’m on a hunt to find a way to watch it
Bakshi what a genius, I love all his work, the spiderman series I watched as a kid, wizards, fire and ice etc, his trippy af lotr got me into tolkien.
I could see Genndy Tartakovsky making a serie out of this movie if Bakshi gave his approval.
Well there's Primal
I quote lines from this movie even now as a 46 year old man.
Rotoscoping is essentially a precursor to motion and performance capture in modern cgi animation.
I hadn't thought of that, but yeah, you're right.
Ice and fire Came out of time Sword and source for movie were giving popular This movie deserve at cult status I love Frank Fazetta's work His art style of conan the barbarian still bad-ass
Great video and I love this film.
Stumbled on this on RUclips, nice to see it get some attention.
my mom rented this for me without knowing what it was, i was too young and it scared me.
I would stare at these drawings when I was young and was just amazed at how well they were drawn. I think there was a book.
I always believed a live action remake of this should have happened in the 90s with Brad Pitt vs Tom Cruise. That's how i felt when i first watched it. That whole sequence leading to the moment when the wolfman raised his ace and screamed was powerful.