Josh Pate On CFP Expansion & Recruiting Impact (Late Kick Cut)
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- College Football Playoff talk is never far away, and since the season has returned, on Late Kick Live Ep 294 Josh Pate responded to a viewer question about whether or not he hates the CFP and how he believes expansion could even out the dispersement of recruiting talent which currently seems to be confined to a small pocket of elite programs. Will more recruits go more places at the mere thought of increased access to the CFP or has the College Football public overblown the concept entirely? What matters the most to prospects? Josh also details which parts he does and doesn't like about the current model. Can't we find a way to have a CFP without focusing on it OVER the regular season even DURING the regular season? Let us know what you think in the comments below and be sure to SUBSCRIBE to the channel and CLICK THE BELL for notifications as we bring you multiple live shows per week!
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I get what you’re saying but those games that currently have “playoff implications” are always the most viewed game every week. Most people watch their teams game and then a few other games that either impacts their teams postseason journey or the national one. The expanded playoff creates an environment where more games, even games like Cincinnati vs Arkansas can mean as much as games like Ohio State v Notre Dame. Those games are always gonna get views whether they have playoff implications or not Josh
I love your analogy on skipping the meal to get to the dessert. My favorite part of college football is that it’s the only sport where the regular season matters every single week.
The regular season would matter even more with an expanded playoff. Right now, if a team loses twice their season is over. For a lot of teams, if they lose even 1 game their season is over. An expanded playoff fixes that.
"Book of Josh, take the UA off"
Josh Pate hates Arizona confirmed.
Ah recruiting! Between the portal, redshirts and the 6th Covid year, The NCAA created a nightmare for High school players looking to go to college. Some are choosing to look for only "mature" players and others just have no room while current players "play on" while getting their masters. Why not take this topic up, Josh? Someone needs to care about high school athletes.
I agree my son is a victim of that being in the 2021 class. All the D1 school camps he was invited to were cancelled. And the schools that showed interest got kids from the portal.
@@anthonyrobinson624 Yes, it is tragic. Also, some schools are not honoring 4 year scholarships and finding ways to wiggle away from their commitments to young players so they can specifically get more mature players from the portal.
Jesus loves you
@@drakeaamold7577 Of course.
The top few programs all recruit top athletes who are willing to sit and develop. The kids who understand the value of growing a season or two while learning from not just the coaches, but the older starters, are the types of kids who make you a perennial powerhouse. Expanding the playoff isn’t going to increase the number of those kids, nor is it going to pull them from the top tier programs that keep pumping class after class into the nfl.
CFP expansion will turn college football even more into the NFL where you have teams sitting their best players. College football has always had the best regular season in all of sports, and it needs to stay that way. Not only that, expansion won't change the ultimate result anyway. You'll still have the two best teams in the final every year. Think about it this way, we've had the playoffs since 2014 and NOT ONCE have we had a fully competitive semifinal round. Every year, at least one of the semis is a blowout. Expansion is only going to make that worse. I say all of that to say that we honestly don't even need 4 teams when it's obvious who the two best teams are every year.
Yeah and honestly, name ONE year since the playoff started that the crowned champion wasn’t the right one. Every year, the playoff system has helped us find the BEST team in the sport. Period. So if it isn’t broken, why throw in other useless teams that WILL NOT win, but MIGHT injure a star QB along the way of the team that could’ve won it. It’s nonsense.
@@chandlergrove6674 boom
I 100% agree with this. College football expansion waters down the product and these big games that had high stakes will mean so much less.
I’m against the regular season matters less if we expand thing to a certain extent. People will still tune in for Auburn vs Penn state. Georgia vs Oregon. If the field was 8. No the game isn’t a “elimination game” but its great. the leagues are expanding. Texas vs Alabama in the SEC WEST doesn’t need to be a elimination game every year. Let Texas get the 8th seed and have a chance against another team or a chance to play Bama twice.
@@Lakeshow_boss 👎no!
@@brettrobinson2901 don’t watch then bud
@@Lakeshow_boss I wouldn't if there was a damn thing else to watch , and I didn't love my beloved HAWGS so much...
God bless
Expanding the playoff will help spread out talent not directly because recruits care so much about playoff appearances or wins, but because many related factors. Teams that make the playoff will inevitably have more media exposure and the staffs involved will be perceived as more competent. Since more schools make the playoff, more schools feel like they have a shot, more schools invest in their facilities and staffs to become more competitive therefore talent gets spread a little thinner both among coaches and recruits.
IMO a 12 team playoff is a no-brainer. You notice it's almost entirely SEC fans who don't want an expansion, that should be telling.
No. We don’t want an expansion because the end result will be the same while decreasing the importance of regular season games. It’s more games for nothing. Elite recruits will still go to the same programs they always have. Subpar coaches will still get exposed as subpar. Great coaches will still show themselves as great. Nothing changes besides just more games. Change for the sake of change doesn’t equal progress.
Lmfao …why wouldn’t the SEC teams want that when they are the ones who will benefit the most
@@thetruthandnothingbutthetr6484 No they wouldn't. It's become relatively common for the SEC to have 50% of playoff teams, that would be exceedingly rare in a 12 team playoff.
@@jmuench420 you’d have 4-6 SEC in a 12 team field every year. 12 is vastly too much.
To be honest the 12 team playoffs expansion helps the SEC, especially with Texas and Oklahoma. The SEC might have 4 to 5 teams in a 12 team playoffs
lol I love Josh. He's absolutely fantastic. I might disagree with him here though. Maybe its because I'm a fan of a team that would make the playoff every few years if it was expanded (Iowa). But I have to imagine it wouldn't take long for us to see some upsets in the first round. Let's take last year for example. Let's pretend Alabama vs Texas A&M was the first round of a playoff. That is suddenly going to propell some team deeper into the playoff. Maybe they can leverage that for some recruiting benefit, but even if they can't how awesome is it for the fanbase of that team? As an Iowa fan I still remember fondly how we whooped the pants off of OSU in 2017, of squeaked by on a last second FG against undefeated Michigan in 2016. That magic will still happen in the play off and give those fanbases something to brag about for years
CFP Expansion suggestion: Power 5 conf champs get auto bids + 3 next best teams.
Auto bids simply don't work in college football. The conferences aren't even remotely equal, and a 9-4 PAC12 winner has no business even sniffing the playoff. Besides, there's never been a scenario....EVER...where a #8 team had a legitimate shot at winning the national championship, or had a beef with not making the playoffs. College football is about rewarding the elite teams, and not rewarding mediocrity.
@@arubial1229 NCAA basketball has the same problems and they made it work. Upsets can happen.
@@davidburks4657 Basketball and football couldn’t be any more different. “Upsets happen” isn’t a good enough reason to allow a 7-5 team in the playoffs. The regular season matters…unlike college basketball.
I whole heartedly disagree. While the fcs playoffs have a similar problem to the fbs with North Dakota state flat out dominating, the fcs playoffs are a million times more entertaining and I keep tabs on that more than the fbs playoffs. The upsets, the heartbreak, and the fans still go wild when they realize their team is going to frisco, even if if they’re almost guaranteed to lose. And on top of it, as a fan and student of an fcs school (in addition to an fbs school) I can tell you that the regular season is still absolutely meaningful. I’ll never forget that game where my school was out of the playoffs, we went into the rivalry game and drug our rivals down with us and took them out as well.
64 team play off!!
JackLeg - hehe
The playoffs has lessened the value of post season due to a bunch of players sitting out making the games not worth as much!
Expanding the playoffs will have more players play. You won’t have guys sitting out the rose bowl like last year if that game was a 1-6 or 1-8 playoff game. The same 4 teams are boring
@@Lakeshow_boss to be fair it’ll usually be those same 4 teams in the semi finals and finals no matter what.
Can't say I remember watching any of the CFP games in recent memory. I don't care about those teams, and even if I did, they're the same teams that on prime time every Saturday. Often the teams have already played each other that season anyway. Expand it, condense it to one game, it's all the same to me. This is the last season of college football anyhow. Going forward it's just gonna be NFL light, and the NFL is a pretty sad brand of football.
you forgot to add “GET OFF MY LAWN”
i can see josh & people like him sometime in the future, sitting in a bar getting drunk with like minded people talking about
"oh hey! you remember when we beat the #1 team Alabama! yeah murica!"
a passerby asks "oh your team beat them in the national championship game huh? what year was that?"
a drunk josh says " national what? no. we beat them in week 8 of the regular season in 2023, yes sir we did!"
josh & his fellow drunk followers high five each other
the passer by stands confused. "so you're celebrating winning a regular season game..." yea time to walk away from this drunken mess LOL
Bad josh u make no since ..just leave it as it is shame 🤦🏾
Your obsession with something you have no control over is tiring... Josh:)
College football is based around excellent coaches, so if you want parity you need to have more excellent coaches.
How did Texas A and M do what they did?
NIL. Money.
More OPPORTUNITY to actually winning a championship.
The games are meaningful because they're playing for something and what could be their last football game before moving on from the game.
Allows these kids another OPPORTUNITY to showcase their skills against top tier talent and programs they wouldn't be afforded otherwise.
Economical benefits with having home playoff games for the kids and the fans.
I'm sorry but this argument Josh is pretty hollow...
The same hollow argument the elitists have been making since they decided 4 teams constituted an actual playoff.
You can’t have a legit playoff if teams who win their conference aren’t involved.
They’re too arrogant to see how stupid their anti expansion argument is.
Take your 10 Conference champions and the two highest independents. There's your 12. Everyone plays nine conference games top two teams play in the conference Championship game. Right now it's rare to see a top power 5 team play a top group of five teams because they know if they lose they're probably out of the playoff race even if they win all their other games and win their conference Championship. If you take away the risk of playing those top group of five teams then maybe we actually see more games where it's top power 5 versus top group of five in the regular season, and then some of these group of five teams at least get bragging rights. You might even see more games with top power five teams playing other top power 5 teams knowing that it's not going to screw up their chances of making the playoffs. You already push The Narrative of championships are the only thing that matters onto these kids. Why not go all in and just say the only way you have a shot at the national championship is to win your conference Championship. For a lot of fans on most teams the expectation is beat your rival, Conference Championship, playoff, National Championship, in that order , so much that if a new coach fails to meet those goals within the first two or three years of coming to that school the fans want him gone.
How would you fit three SEC teams in that scenario?
@@davesteller6301
The championship game would essentially be a playoff game and why should sec get 3 teams
@@happynotredamefan3736 because they are the SEC. Look at it now? Half the teams in the playoffs are SEC teams. Is it right? No! But they will demand at least three teams for the SEC if not 4.
If I’m the fan of an aspiring school, I would rather see them play a team of similar quality in a bowl game, where the odds are roughly 50-50, as opposed to seeing them get blown out as the number 15 seed against number 2 in the first round of an expanded playoff.
This happens in #2 vs #3 seed teams in the current “playoff”.
Expansion gives us more games, more diverse matchups (other than Ohio st vs Clemson or Alabama) and even if the same team (Alabama) wins it all the damn time, the money, viewership, and opportunities are distributed more equally.
It would be good to move to 12-16 teams.
Remember when Miami and Florida state were winning every year? Surely that never changed right?
@@patrickbooth5091 Pretty sure that was before the current CFP system.
@@Greengeist05 so? My point is, no dynasty is forever. The argument a lot of these football hating, anti expansion, mouth breathing, knuckle draggers like to make are “oh it’s dumb because the same teams are still going to win.” Which even if it’s true, which it isn’t, it won’t always be the same teams, is a weak argument.
@@patrickbooth5091 Copy that. I suppose that the most logical follow up questions are 'why do dynasties end?' & "what are fans from lower ranked schools supposed to do in the mean time?"
We know from socialiological research that hierarchies that have too much power stacked at the top are inherently unstable. It seems that right now this is what we have going on in college football and it cannot be good for the overall health of the sport.
The BCS formula was not good enough and seeing the same 4 teams is boring and played out to 80% of people. Expanding keeps players from sitting out “meaningless bowl games” I’m just tired of the complaining from both sides. People complained about the BCS now we complain about the playoff.
People complain because it’s not a real “playoff”. It’s a four team invitational.
@@Frog2theRRR no matter the field number people will complain at the end of the day is my point. I say make it 8 but I promise you it still will be complaining. 8 won’t be enough for sum or fewer regular season games will matter will be the argument on the other side. Auburn going to Penn State and Penn state going to auburn MATTERS. Playoffs or not. At the end of the day the blue chips will win the natty.. this isn’t basketball. Alabama, Ohio state, Clemson, Georgia maybe USC, TEXAS eventually. The same 3 teams will win it. Josh is right on that point. Only a handful of teams have a chance to win and creating parody doesn’t work in football. Whoever wins recruiting wins the natty. Baylor vs Georgia last year would’ve been a route just like Michigan vs Georgia. Just creating more chances for injuries in my opinion.
@@Lakeshow_boss you can assume any game would be a rout, but you don’t know until they play the game. Easy to say georgia would beat Baylor when they never played. 🙄🙄🙄
Imo- certain teams (sec) don’t want other teams outside their conference having chances to beat them.
All SEC national championships with extra steps. BCS had 1 and 7 straight SEC champs. play off has had 2 and currently 3 straight. Y’all outside the SEC just aren’t what you thought you were.
College basketball is a joke. I don't even start watching until MAR. Hopefully CFB won't water down it's regular season. Also, would like to see no FCS schools playing FBS.
Solution. Elite 8. Final Four for Football. National champ yes. But everyone remembers the Elite 8 program and especially the Final 4 appearance. But yes. Some games will def be meaningless. See conference title games.
3:00 The only place that we have real world data to look to is college basketball and this is exactly how they built their program. What fo you have to back up your opinion??
So so so true - all the big games now have zero meaning, and NC State vs Louisivlle now matters more. OSU and Michigan? Sorry means literally zero
Hey Pate, can you put Joel Klatt’s fat-mouthed takes in their place please? You are truly thoughtful and objective. He is clearly not.
I will take Bama, Ohio State, and give you everybody else even money for what ever you want to bet. yes that includes the bullpuppies and Clemson. even money.
I just want a more objective way for the playoff rankings. Not favoritism subjective secretive selection.
Expanded playoff would have had more value to recruiting had NIL not become a thing like it did.
I don’t see why making the playoff has any meaning for anyone other than Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, and Clemson.
Knock it off with this conference champ auto bid crap. The pac-12 and big 12 are not real conferences anymore.
Ye i dont like the ppl that say itll make it btr i woultn say im against expansion or for it i will say im against this 12 team playoff thats half the top 25 wich makes so many games meaninless in terms of playoffs useless i woultn be opposed to a 6 team playoff but 12 is to much footballs football its awsome to watch an enjoy u nvr truly no how a games goina b thru the year i enjoy the games 4 the love of the game an then late season seeing if a team could make the playoffs but with 12 teams its near guaranteed to have any top 25 team in the playoffs but no actual meaning to it
I can’t wait to hear everyone complain when we get 16 teams because Bama, Ohio state, OU, Clemson, and Georgia will remain at the top.
Exactly!!!
Right this only means that the bluebloods will make the playoffs every year
Joe Paterno won the rose bowl once and disrespected it. He'd rather played for the national championship. He never won it again.
Couldn’t have happened to a better guy.
Just another Bowl game if not for a National Championship! Anybody would say the same!
Put the playoffs on campus and stop being a bunch of wussies
Great question... how the Hell did the ATM do what they just did? Hell, they can't answer the question...
How DID the automated teller machine do what it did? Stole all our money, I tell you hwat!
So right, Josh. They say it’ll create more parity but then find out that the conference they whine and cry about will have more teams in it, which is the SEC. Lol these people crack me up. And no, I’m not an SEC fanboy.
Yep watch the SEC have like 4 to 5 teams in the playoffs
Well said. I’m more interested in the quality of the playoff games than the number of them. Games don’t become interesting merely because they are called playoff games. Every year, the CFP Committee struggles to find more than 3 teams that have a realistic chance to win the national championship, yet somehow we are supposed to be better off as fans inviting 12 teams to a playoff tournament.
Most the games arent interesting now. So why not expand the playoff if for no other reason than to diversify the matchups.
@@Frog2theRRR If most of the games aren't interesting to you, then why watch them? Do you enjoy NFL games more than CFB games?
@@dougmac3046 I don’t watch them anymore and won’t until it expands. I was contradicting the same old argument that expanding the playoff wouldn’t bring more viewers because the games wouldn’t ‘be as interesting’ or they’d be blowouts.
The quality of games wouldn’t change because you’re getting blowouts now.
How is Michigan getting run out of the stadium a quality game?
At least you’d increase the odds of a major upset.
And the more teams involved, the more people will watch because their team would be in it.
There is no valid argument against expansion.
@@dougmac3046 I didn’t say that most college football games are uninteresting to me. I said that in most seasons there are not 4 teams that have a legitimate chance to win the national championship. These are very different statements.
@@Frog2theRRR What excites you, apparently, is the prospect of directional state U beating Ohio State, Alabama, or some other blue blood program in a grossly improbable upset similar to the Miracle on Ice from hockey. Who gives a crap about this David vs. Goliath baloney.
CFP has added nothing to college football get rid of it
The playoff is terrible, none of the games have been incredibly memorable unless your school was in it. Parity in CFB is nonexistent to begin with. I have 0 desire to watch blowouts so advertisers can have more content to broadcast. The regular season is getting watered down and "meaningless bowl games" now exist. Love the show, agree with your take.
So you’d rather watch the Spirit airlines bowl being played by backups while the starters sit out in a half empty stadium than a playoff game on a campus?
I think 8 is the best number to still give the regular season value .. the 5 highest ranked conference champions (regardless of P5/G5) get an auto bid and of those 5, the 4 highest get a home play off game and 3 more at larges to close out the field #1 vs #8 , #2 vs #7, #3 vs #6, #4 vs #5
I would say six conference champions and two at large, but other than that I agree. I don’t get the arguments for 12 or 16 cause then you’d just get a lot of rematches.
@@ffr8186 I’m okay with that too because you either way your giving the G5 a chance which is what both of our ideas have in common .. yea I don’t understand 12 or 16 either it just waters down the product and we’re expected to see at least 4-5 blowouts
Some may say that cheesecake is: sensational.
I was honestly fine with the BCS. It was the most exclusive championship game in all of sports. Plus the traditional bowl games were really fun! Getting more and more NFL jr esque these days sadly.
THANK YOU!..hell i d go back to the " mythical national championship " model if I could...
Man cannot exist on cheesecake alone!
James Spann reference. Nice!
Shoutout to James Spann
Quite frankly. ...I miss the old bowl model....I never minded having an AP & UPI mythical national champ....I believe that major college football was the greatest game around BECAUSE the regular season was so important...every game...every rivalry...WAS A PLAYOFF GAME....now...college football...is just another sports season...
What team is he a fan of
I agree 💯👍🏿👍🏿
If they expand to 12.....ESPN will try to push for 8 SEC schools....
12 team playoff is ludicrous, 8 in my opinion is the largest it should ever be (I prefer 6 but I don’t think we’d ever get that). Conference champs and 1 G5 makes it ideal, no rematches in the playoff, you have to win your conference. Also In increases the regionality because all of the conference movement is about money and the biggest schools are trying to get to the Big 10 and SEC because they are getting the biggest slice of the pie (that’s also because they are getting the most air time because they are the once in the games at the end of the year)
Hit the nail on the head. Stop focusing so much on the playoff in week 1. Expansion would devalue the regular season games more than anything. I blame ESPN for a lot of this.
It's not about what's best for the sport. It's about money and marketing. It's been that way for decades, but now the facade has been completely ripped away. It is what it is. I'm a diehard college football fan so I will watch regardless. It is what it is. Go Gamecocks!!
@@ohtaylor5 I agree with every thing you said ...except...GO HAWGS!...WOOOO...PIG...SOOOOIE!!!!....RAZORBACKS!!!!
You couldn’t possibly be more wrong. An expanded playoff makes the regular season matter way more. Under current, and past, systems, the season is over for most teams as soon as they lose 1 game and it’s over for just about everyone if they lose a second game. An expanded playoff fixes that problem
@@patrickbooth5091 nope...just waters down the regular season...in other sports they play so many games ...even the NFL... that regular season rivalries don't really matter..the reason I loved college football..MAJOR COLLEGE FOOTBALL...is that there GUARANTEED only so many games to state your case...either to win your way to a bowl game destination..to perhaps to be crowned conference champs...the natty was almost beside the point..natural , regional rivalries developed out of that one game and done scenario...there were a myriad ways to consider yourself a winner...every game had a chance to be MEMORABLE...because they DIRECTLY impacted the regular season...now..they will all become a meaningless blur in the race to a playoff spot...and eventually the college football will be just a amateur version of the NFL...USC- NOTER DAME...OU -TEXAS...MICHIGAN -OHIO STATE ALABAMA -AUBURN...and countless other great college football rivalries will just be one more game...all to satisfy the endless, continuous hunger of the casual playoff freaks...who only watch the game for betting reasons..or for the most holy of holies..DA' PLAYOFFS!!!!👺....like it or not...believe it not..the sacrosanct REGULAR SEASON...gave college football a DISTINCT FLAVOR...and rivalries...UNMATCHED BY ALL OTHER SPORTS...now..they're just a blur of games...in in of themselves..no different from any other clash...I understand YOU NO DOUBT a young fan can't understand what in HELL I'm yammering on about...but remember this...college football became what it became..BECAUSE at its heart it was NEVER about the post season...it was because of familiar matchup between schools that HATED each other ..( in a sports way)...that UNDERSTOOD EACH OTHER...every clash..happening once a year..every win SO DEEPLY SATISFYING ...EVERY DEFEAT AWFUL AGONY...lived with 365 days until the next matchup...the post season...a reward..for a season well played..to be enjoyed..against a team of similar accomplishment...in a sense...in the ole bowl system ...their were MANY CHAMPIONS...THE Pac10-Big10 Rae Bowl clash..Sugar , Cotton, Fiesta, Gator, Peach Bowl champions...each with its own flavor...to be SAVORED..AND ANTICIPATED!....now..there will be only one true playoff survivor..bullied and bullying it's way thru a blizzard of post season teams...and if you believe that a twelve team satisfy the playoff freaks ..your crazy...and two loss or more not eventually invited your more crazy..they won't stop until the college football regular season has been reduced to the level of an NBA regular season..no game in the end anymore special or memorable than any other...only remembered if at all for how it impacts PLAYOFF CHANCES...and for a casual uninvolved fan with no real feeling about ..I guess that's fine..but I as an old fart..Will ALWAYS miss the mythical national championship days with unending arguments about who was a really better team...for me ..that was part of the magic..lots of successful bowl champions..constant revising arguments about what it all meant...big time college football was kind of like life itself..what did happen, what could have happened...and the uncertainty at times of who really was on top....
@@brettrobinson2901 wrong. The regular season doesn’t matter in college football for the VAST majority of teams because one loss ends the season. Nebraska lost in week 0. Their season was over before week 1 even kicked off. Utah lost in week 1. Their season is over. Oregon? Seasons over. The rest of their games don’t matter because their season is already over. Going to 12, a lot more teams have a lot more to play for. Even the teams that get in have a lot to play for all season because being top 4 and getting a first round bye will be huge
This expansion is all about the $$$. Even a casual watcher knows that 12 teams are too much. However, this large net will prevent some people from complaining.
The way the game is right now with the CFP an the other 4 NY6 bowls is perfect. You play good all season an you get a CFP birth an if not you atleast get a NY6 bowl. An even the ctirus bowl which is the next best bowl under the NY6 bowl is always fun to watch. An people act like it's always the same teams in the playoffs an that's not true. An Alabama doesn't win it every year either. They were just playing in the citrus bowl a couple years ago.other teams have. A shot, an it just seems that because the SEC is so strong that any team that wins the SEC is gonna be the national champion most of the time. But it is still entertaining an there have been other teams make the playoffs like Washington, Notre Dame, Michigan state, Michigan, Cincinnati, Oregon. I mean it isn't always bama, an Clemson.
I don’t like the expansion, it rips apart old rivalries. But pandora’s box is open and there’s no going back now.
I think 8 teams. All P5 champs and the highest ranked teams remaining
BRING BACK THE BCS!!! THE COMPUTER DID A GREAT JOB.
"...as for me and my house, we will serve the Regular Season."
The 1st 2 playoff games last year were Blow outs. I don't want to see more of that. My team won the fiesta bowl last year and I was excited because they ended the season on a good win. They didn't get blown out in a playoff game.
Yeah classic bowl season is severely underrated. I liked when you were just matched up with an out of conference team that you normally never get to play and are around the same skill level. It’s more competitive and just a fun thing to watch all the weird matchups during bowl season. Like last year OkState vs Notre Dame and Utah vs Ohio St were the two most exciting “post-season” games imo. Wayyyy more exciting than the playoff games at least.
The semis are almost always blowouts, every year.
Absolutely! I’m a Michigan State fan. MSU finished 11-2 and ranked top 10 with a nice NY-6 bowl game against Pitt. (Yes, that game would have been better if Kenny Pickett and Kenneth Walker had suited up to play, but it was still a pretty exciting game). But my Spartans had no business thinking that a national championship was a possibility-if there’s any doubt, watch the Ohio State game from last year. I don’t think the program would be at the same level of optimism right now if we had squeaked into a #8 playoff seed, only to get blown out 48-6 by Georgia or Alabama.
I disagree with the talent spread theory..We (Texas) lose so much in state talent every year to the sec. Well you know the rest of my statement..
Well, Texas is SEC now or at least a biracial form of it.
Hell yes, I've been "casually" checking out this show for the last few weeks, and now you just solidified me as a legit FAN OF YOUR SHOW!
Welcome, you're gonna love it here, especially once the season is in full swing.
If you are against playoff expansion, you just don’t enjoy football. It’s really that simple. Expanding the playoff makes the regular season more important. The way it is now, every team’s season ends if they lose a second time. For a lot of teams, the season is over if they lose even one game. An expanded playoff gives meaning to a game between teams that have already lost.
It would be way more entertaining to watch 5 vs 12 play a playoff game on campus than watch the spirit airlines bowl in a half empty stadium with all of the starters sitting out.
Saying that the same teams will always win is extremely silly. If we had this conversation in the 80’s, you’d be saying Miami is going to win every game anyway. Or Florida State? Or in the early 2000’s, it would always be USC and Texas winning anyway right?
I watched this clip twice (some parts more than twice) so that I could understand the arguments presented by J.P.; here is what I got out of it: 1) CFP expansion would not lead to a more even distribution of talent because playoff opportunities do not motivate students to choose one program over another. Rather, it is the opportunity for player development in preparation to enter the NFL that is the strongest factor in recruiting. 2) CFP expansion would create an over-saturation in the games market and also detract from the importance of each individual game when teams (and fans) are always participating with an eye on the playoffs. These factors would invariably detract from the regular season, which should be the most important part of college football.
In response to point 1: JP's evidence to support this claim is anecdotal and stems from his position as an authority on the topic of recruitment having talked with athletes while covering the process. However, there are other commentators who take part in the same process who have a different take on this issue. There is also an unfortunate lack of data on the topic of recruitment motivation, but preliminary research indicates that NIL money is fast become the primary motivator. So will CFP expansion make the game more fair? Maybe, maybe not. There does not seem to be any good evidence one way or the other. Only time will tell.
In Response to point 2: Unfortunately no evidence was offered to support this claim. It also suffers from the lack of a limiting principle. For example; if fewer games are better because scarcity makes each regular season game more important, then reducing the regular season games to eight would be better. But why not stop there? If each team only played one game a season, then that game would be extremely important. You would be right in thinking that this is absurd, but this is the logical conclusion of this line of argumentation without said limiting principle. Is there an ideal number of games per season? If so, what is it? Why that many?
The idea that the regular season should take primacy over any playoff games is a mere opinion and an odd one at that. Sports are a form of competition after all, with the intention of establishing a dominance hierarchy. Without championship games of some sort that hierarchy is awfully ambiguous. For example, would the Olympics be better if competition ended before the final heats and medals were awarded based on the opinions of experts formed behind closed doors? Such a system is completely counter to the athletic ethos.
Additionally, NCAA football as not a single market, but rather an amalgamation of many different markets. There are communities all across the nation that want to see the local team that they support do well. Each of these individual communities constitute a market unto itself. The vast majority of NCAA football fans are regular people who have many demands on them, each game watched represents a commitment in both time and money (which a lot of people are short on these days). If they have only enough time to watch one game in a weekend, then they will probably watch their team's game. The question then becomes how do you get average people to invest in football rather than into something else when there is little hope for them? As things stand now, engagement for the vast majority of fans wanes as it becomes apparent that their team will not achieve in a given year. This is evidenced by the continually low ratings of bowl games and many conference championships in the current CFP era. Vast regions in the US feel like they are left out when their conference is not even given an opportunity to represent them on a larger stage. It makes fans feel like they too are left out and irrelevant. Sport, at its best, brings people together. As things stand now, NCAA football is falling far short of this ideal.
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How can you say that that college football is an any given Saturday sport and then turn around and proclaim that the lower seeded teams will never win aginst the top teams. Maybe the 16th best team in the nation can't really beat Bama on a regular basis but can't you atleast give the 8 seed a shot? You don't think Baylor and Notre Dame could even keep it close?
If a team in the playoffs couldn’t keep it close why would they be able to?
@@eatonville0565 Random chance. Football has more luck then most sports and I think that's a good thing.
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Life long Georgia fan here. I'm not for expanding the playoffs,even though it increases the likely hood that Georgia gets in more often. Adding two more games increases the likely hood that more injuries occurre to top players that will change the outcome of the championship game.
Well I'm convinced. That last bit about value and scarcity sold me.
I have a very simple argument for the playoff expansion. It makes more games between good teams. I don’t care about whatever you mean by a game having “meaning”. I like it when good teams play each other. When top 10 teams play each other. More playoff games means more instances when top 10 teams play each other. That’s what I like as a fan, that’s why I think there should be more playoff games. I watch my team despite them having zero chance of making the playoffs. I want them to make it to a bowl game so they can play an additional game. It’s that simple. More football more better.
100% agree with this. It does NOT water down the regular season. No loss for most schools to eliminate 1 tune up game a year in place of a chance for the playoff to be expanded and see more top teams play each other.
All this sounds good in theory, but it's true the top 3 teams will blow out their (#6-8) matchups in the first round. Yes we'd get some more intense close games, but all I see when expanding the playoff is more Bama destroying Cinci
@@nathanblack9938 most playoff games have been total blowouts, including the championship games. That’s just college football. It comes with the territory. But sometimes, the blowout is in an unexpected direction, like a 4 seed clobbering a 1 seed.
I get you’re take if you aren’t a “casual” and watch pretty much every team. But I feel a playoff expansion will be more exciting when you just root for a team or two and they make it in. Especially now that bowl games mean so much less. If players didn’t sit out I’d agree with you though
The argument of valuing access to the CFP is false because only certain teams even have access. I think you're just maintaining the status quo for the big programs. Expansion would prove that the big programs are overrated when they would be beaten by teams that shouldn't be able to compete. How can teams get resources to increase recruiting through NIL when they are denied access to the playoff and boosters are guaranteed no return on investment? Just more talking head nonsense to maintain money for the big boys and then media access to the programs for the heads. Weak reasons Josh.
Big programs like Bama, Georgia, Clemson and OSU are so over rated, they only demolish their competition literally every game of the regular season.
@@othernomad They only play their own conferences. Every P5 champion should be forced to play another P5 champion and a G5 champion every year. I'm sure Josh and the rest of the heads would find that stupid
@@hillbillysceptic1982 waste of a game. Conference games are far more competitive with larger markets. Doesn’t make dollars and sure don’t make sense.
@@othernomadTypical shitty excuses
Expanding the playoff is DUMB!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am going to be so sad when the regular season becomes like ncaab and the games don’t carry the weight they do now.
I still think the expansion should remain tight.... It's 4 now. If they expand to no more than 8...that's plenty to me !!
We should have a Dick Van Patten playoff. Eight is Enough! Expand to right teams. Not 12. Not 16. 8. All conference champions and three at large. No need for a committee. Use the old BCS system to pick the three at large. Or better, the two at large and take the #1 ranked group of five. Place them at #8 seed of you wish. This would be a great playoff. More than 8 it just too much.
Except there are 10 major conferences in the FBS. Oh wait I forgot you elitist don't count the group of five. Unfortunately for you until they either split off or get absorbed by the power five they still count. If it seem like Cincinnati only gets in because the committee has nobody they can justify putting it in their place, it's not a playoff it's an Invitational. Invitationals work in basketball because the main tournament is already big enough to include all champions, and those Champions are all in automatically regardless of how deserving the fans might think those Champions are. We argue in basketball well which Cinderella we think might bust the bubble and make it to the Final Four, but somehow having those same discussions in college football is a crime. We can have a large gigantic tournament in basketball and that's fine, yet in football it's supposed to be this exclusive centralized Invitational attempting to pretend it's a playoff.
@@aarondoodlebug6945 please reread my post. I made a suggestion that instead of three power five at large teams, maybe there should be two and the top ranked group of five team. And no we can not include every group of five conference champion.
8 is enough. Agreed.
It should be the conference championship winner goes to the playoffs this to avoid having 2 teams from the same conference in the national championship.
Automatic bids are gonna be a no from me dawg
If the two best teams are from the same conference then so be it. If champions of other conferences are actually good they’ll get themselves into the natty
So your logic is no independent team like Notre Dame ever gets in the playoffs.
@@mikesupthn18 motte dame should join a conference
Notre*
I'm all for playoff expansion and here's why.
1) the 4 team playoff has gotten boring. It's the same teams almost every year, the same boring black endzones for the national championship, the same boring national championship logo (really the college football national championship has the worst presentation and esthetic in sports) the same boring Alabama, Ohio State's and Clemson's. They are a lot of things, but the one thing they're not is unbeatable, which leads me to my next point. It's the most boring, and stupid playoff in all of sports.
2) Cinderella teams. Like I said upsets happen, and how would you know a team is going to win a national championship if they're aren't allowed to go? All its going to take is one of these teams to win it all which will eventually happen if you expand the playoff, and that's all it would take to prove you wrong.
3) if FCS can do it, then why can FBS? FCS has a 24 team playoff, and FBS has a 4 team playoff, FBS is supposed to be the big boys, and the little ole FCS can have a 24 team playoff, and FBS can't? What a joke!
4) Home playoff games. If you thought LSU's death valley, or Penn State white out game was a wild atmosphere. Just wait till they have home playoff games!
5) the conference championship would actually mean something! Alabama, Georgia, and Ohio State have proven that conference championships don't mean shit! If they go to a 12 team format like the NFL was then the conference champion would get a 1st round bye and an automatic bowl bid (more on that later), and the loser has the go the long way like it was in the NFL. If you're going to keep the 4 team playoff, then get rid of the conference championships, because it's unfair that one team has to play an extra game, but another team gets to sit on ass and get into the playoff anyway.
6) the bowl games would mean more. No more sitting there watching half a football team play a meaningless bowl, yes even the rose bowl is meaningless! Playoff expansion would fix that! I wouldn't call it the new year's 6 bowl (I always thought that was a stupid name) I'd call them the elite 8, and final 4 bowls, and they can rotate every year. This is how I'd set up the elite 8 bowls. Rose: Pac-12, or Big 10 vs at large, Fiesta: group of 5 vs at large, Cotton: Big 12 vs at large, Sugar: SEC vs at large, Peach: ACC vs at large, Orange: SEC, or ACC at large, and if there's another team in the playoff, they would take that vacant bowl spot.
7) it would end all debate! You go to a 12, or 16 team playoff you would crowd an undeniable champion! No more, well a non an undefeated non power 5 team didn't get a chance, or that team had a soft schedule, and got it because of their name, all the excuses, and bullshit fly out of the window. Every other sport has a well designed playoff system why can't FBS football have one? It's not "too many games" or it would "interfere with school" all of that is bullshit! The real reason the "4 and no more" crowd wants to keep it that way is because they want all the bullshit in college football, because they'd have more to talk about, if you have no debate, then you don't have much of a show now do you? The 4 team playoff is the worst playoff system in all of sports.
I agree with a lot of things you say Josh, but this I disagree with.