Creepy Things About Prehistoric Cave Paintings | Enigma Files
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- Опубликовано: 28 мар 2024
- You've probably seen lots of prehistoric cave paintings - but have ever seen a human face depicted in them?
"In archaeology, cave paintings are a type of parietal art (which category also includes petroglyphs, or engravings), found on the wall or ceilings of caves. The term usually implies prehistoric origin. These paintings were often created by Homo sapiens, but also Denisovans and Neanderthals; other species in the same Homo genus. Discussion around prehistoric art is important in understanding the history of the Homo sapiens species and how Homo sapiens have come to have unique abstract thoughts. Some point to these prehistoric paintings as possible examples of creativity, spirituality, and sentimental thinking in prehistoric humans.
The oldest known are more than 40,000 years old (art of the Upper Paleolithic) and found in the caves in the district of Maros (Sulawesi, Indonesia). The oldest are often constructed from hand stencils and simple geometric shapes. More recently, in 2021, cave art of a pig found in Sulawesi, Indonesia, and dated to over 45,500 years ago, has been reported.
A 2018 study claimed an age of 64,000 years for the oldest examples of non-figurative cave art in the Iberian Peninsula. Represented by three red non-figurative symbols found in the caves of Maltravieso, Ardales and La Pasiega, Spain, these predate the appearance of modern humans in Europe by at least 20,000 years and thus must have been made by Neanderthals rather than modern humans.
In November 2018, scientists reported the discovery of the then-oldest known figurative art painting, over 40,000 (perhaps as old as 52,000) years old, of an unknown animal, in the cave of Lubang Jeriji Saléh on the Indonesian island of Borneo. In December 2019, cave paintings portraying pig hunting within the Maros-Pangkep karst region in Sulawesi were discovered to be even older, with an estimated age of at least 43,900 years. This finding was recognized as "the oldest known depiction of storytelling and the earliest instance of figurative art in human history.""
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I hope you don't mind me asking what the song in the beginning was...
Where's the million dollars Qxir
Ever thought about doing a video on the moundbuilders and giants, the Smithsonian cover up? Check it out man. Thanks 👊🏼
I’m in the ‘Morrissey Moment’ movement. Yousinging to The Smiths to trigger temporary, instantaneous dissociation is rough.
More so, it was ridiculously endearing.
Try ‘Well I Wonder.’ It’s melancholy quicksand.
Maybe switch to The Cure next time as a palate cleanser.
As a big anthro buff I love the video bud! Don't forget that cave where goddamn do gooder bible thumpers wiped off ancient cave paintings thinking it was graffiti, the scumbags
Artists now and probably then: shit people are hard to draw. Imma draw a horse instead
I draw animals mostly and you couldn’t pay me to draw a horse (yes you could I just don’t wanna try, MLP doesn’t count I don’t think)
@@PixelPalettesmr hands
@@LeGabrielMan One day you’ll be judged for your actions in life, and I hope for your sake that they’re kinder to you than I’d be.
@@PixelPalettes
My horses end up looking like it's from Adventure Time
100%
I heard once someone discovered cave paintung depicting animals with extra limbs.
Turns out, when you bring a ligth source and walk next to it, the paintings start MOVING, revealing an ancient form of animation.
yeah its Chauvet Cave the one from 4:33
many limbs faces and horns doubled, tripled, or quadrupled and when a fire is in the cave and its flickering it shows the animals "moving"
Sounds almost like a crude zoetrope.
@@DeclanMBrennan That's exactly what it is!
@@DeclanMBrennannice last name!
TLDR; Cave people created Lenticular Printing
Cave people just knew what modern artists know today: drawing animals is easy, drawing people is hard.
it ain't easy, that bear in the french cave was done so well and with perspective, the simplest lines are often the most difficult to use and that painter used them very well, they definitely could have drawn a person well.
Even if it were true, there'd be attempts.
And if was just some kind of religion taboo like in Islam, well that type of taboo is rare before monotheism which is thousands of yrs after agriculture. Plus why would different bands in far regions have same religious taboos
Is that a commonly-held belief among artists? I find animals so extraordinarily difficult to draw, but humans are pretty easy. Maybe I'm just weird
@@KingNedya its the opposite. Human is harder to make it look right
Depends on the artist I can’t draw animals but I like to draw people
Think this way: they probably slept there. Consider: baby nurseries nowadays have animals all over, but no people. Trying to sleep next to a realistic shadow person on the wall would be creepy as fuck. Even if they did draw a mf, they’d just erase it two minutes later when the babies start crying.
That’s honestly a really good way to think about it that way
Damn youre probably right
I shared a bedroom with my brother. My bunk position, my eyes would be near dead center on a stuffed toy's eyes he owned. It was a completely harmless puppy one. But in the dark with enough moonlight those god DAMNED dead dolls eyes glowed... I swear I got CO2 poisoning hiding under my blanket 😂😂😂
Tbh, it's probably a combination of a LOT of factors. It's hard to imagine it boils down to just one reason or another. Like sure, in parts of the world where people lived in caves that makes sense, but when they didn't, it could also be that it's, e.g., considered disrespectful to draw someone so generic stick figures are drawn instead of detailed people, or maybe just that being in a cave deep enough for the drawing to not eventually get washed away by now probably really sucked so they drew an animal because its easier than a human and then get out into warmth and sunlight ASAP.
yeah it would be weird as hell to just have a person staring at u on the wall lol id rather see those pretty bears and stuff
If I was a caveman I wouldn't want my soul trapped in a cave painting.
ugh
GRUG NO PAINT FACE GRUG PAINT ANIMAL
@@K33ev2we still have people who talk like that bro, they are located in the south side of Chicago
@@JoeRogansForehead OOGA BOOGA JRUG GRUGAN
@@K33ev2actually you should be making "chimp on dmt" noises, since it's Joe Rogan
the part where you talk about how human-centric we view this world as opposed to how the prehistoric people viewed it was really thought-provoking
to be fair the world IS much more human-centric than it used to be. Even the very atmosphere is largery effected by our actions.
@@numbdigger9552 sad
Because the world is human centric now, it wasn’t back then.
@@zeeboss7553 that's what i figured
Yeah. Especially when he said the earth for all they knew was infinite. I never really thought about it that way.
In Australia often in tv programs there are warnings for indigenous people when there are dead actors in a show or film because there are tribes that find it to be taboo. I'm not sure exactly why but thought it was an interesting note
First nations people from Australia go through a mourning period for indefinite amounts of time after members of our mob pass. We believe that sharing the images, voices and appearances of people who have died will distract their spirit from their path of moving on to the afterlife.
@@skinksalinger2306 a bit weird
@@skinksalinger2306 thanks for sharing!
@@tfordham13Honestly, not so much, in europe we have sayings like don't mention the bad about the dead, (hungary) and we often pay for holly mass for their ascendance etc. long after their deaths, we cover mirrors in times of mourning etc. This is almost a common aspect as it seems to me...
@@skinksalinger2306 I live in Australia and never knew that thanks for sharing.
My weird theory is maybe it was considered uncanny or freaky? They wouldn't have been very good at drawing faces yet and they'd have no conception of illustrations or cartoony depictions like we do, so maybe they just saw faces on cave walls as kind of unsettling.
Plus, there's a theory that cave painting are meant to tell a story. As you walk through the cave with torch in hand, you watch the story on the wall pass you by. Imagine watching things slowly be revealed in a dimly lit cave and all of a sudden a poorly drawn human face is illuminated.
That didn't stop medieval artists from giving us their portrayals of cats, which they had never seen apparently.
@@notsocrates9529 And babies. Baby Jesus in old paintings always looks like an ugly old man.
The animal paintings were better than what I can do, why couldn't they draw a face? It's not like they had less fine motor control than we do now
@@DILFDylF Theory of perception helped the art world a lot. Look at medieval art. That shit sucked harder than what a 10 year old with decent art education could do today.
@@notsocrates9529 I think this is pretty self explanatory. Medieval artists were primarily chosen for their ability to capture a human likeness, as their was no other way to identify a person. No pictures, just banners, paintings.
So when you ask that artist to jot out a face structure so drastically distinct. They tend to rush it, especially when it’s accessory to the pieces focus.
Imagine spending ages drawing a nice detailed image of your wife's face on the wall. She takes one look at it and says, "I look horrible. Delete it".
I'm getting the smashing rock... get rid of it
@@FuzzballRenakitty 🤣
Funnily enough, a lot of them probably didn't know what they looked like. I mean, they could only see themselves while looking at water.
In 18th century England, they had 'face books' (unrelated to our favourite personal information vendor) where people would try to draw themselves as best they could. It was a social game. Imagine yourself in an 18th century home in the afternoon after a long day's work, with a thick smell of your wife's stew in the air, cracking jokes with the lads and looking at their poor depictions of themselves and laughing about it. The point is, people didn't really know what they looked like before mirrors were common.
@@stojankovacic1524 they can literally just use mirrors and their phones 💅💅
@@stojankovacic1524this doesn’t matter bc they could’ve just used somebody else as reference, they knew what humans looked like
My theory is they didn’t have mirrors, so it was just people drawing each other freehand. One guy probably got a portrait that depicted him as a bit uglier than he thought he looked, and after that there was an unspoken agreement to never try drawing people again.
You can see your reflection in still water with the right lighting. It’s inconvenient, but I’m sure at some point in their lives they would have seen themselves.
@@jfwrg3461was gonna say this
@@jfwrg3461the problem with that is they're still in caves that are pitch black except for small candles and torches making it difficult to light up a big enough area to actually see their reflection in water
@@manfail7469I know this might surround you, but there is water outside
@@manfail7469 You don't need to be looking at your reflection at the time of making art to remember what you look like. If you did, every time you looked in the mirror would be a surprise because you wouldn't recognize your own face, because you wouldn't remember it.
I love the theory that they drew animals to teach their children what to hunt for without putting them in physical danger.
An archeaologist at Lasceaux found a human fingerprint. He said it was the most surreal and profound experience of his life.
He never knew humans had those before that day
Hahaha nah I don’t think that’s the thought he had😂
@@DILFDylF i think alot of people fail to realize these were real people with families and lives of their own, just very different than ours
@@MaceGaming53they experience a feeling called Sonder (when you realize some random person lives a complex life just like your own)
I worked at an archaeological dig a few years back. Living quarters and cellars from medieval times to the 1930s but a lot of stuff from the 18th and 19th century, especially bricks. Not nearly as old as Lascaux, but still a good bit of time.
I found several bricks that had hand- and fingerprints in them, as well as little doodles and inscriptions. It was a very strange feeling to not just hold the bricks but to actually be able to put my fingers where another person had put theirs a few centuries prior. It wasn't a bad feeling but definitely a bit strange and almost overwhelming.
It really reminded me that, while I am my own person, I'm part of a bigger story and part of a larger whole. Just one link in a very long chain.
It makes you feel small, not necessarily in an insignificant way, but more in a comforting manner. Like just for a brief moment, the universe is thinking about you and smiling a little smile because you're part of it.
Here's a theory - The cavemen had a higher standard for their depictions of themselves. Just like we have the uncanny valley, so too did they find it uncomfortable to have poor depictions of humans unless the figures were very abstracted. We also forget that it took time for us to develop methods to draw well - Japan didn't have a clue on how to draw in perspective, until europeans introduced it to them. Cavemen just likely didn't know how to draw an appealing face, so simply didn't.
Also, what's with the creepy thumbnail? I thought the tone and information within this video would be wildly different based on it - it's somewhat misleading, honestly.
Yeah I avoided this video for a week because of the thumbnail. I thought he was going to show cave paintings of faces and try to convince us that it was creepy.... Which sounded really dumb. Actual video was way better lol
I’m not sure of the factuality of this but my high school biology teacher once told me that the “uncanny valley” most likely came from early Homo Sapiens inherent xenophobia and fear of the other human species.
To be fair, if you think about how the uncanny valley effect is theorized to have evolved in early humans as a subconscious warning system, along with the idea of a "6th sense" essentially having the same theory, the potential implications of humanity seemingly refusing to draw even a single face for thousands of years can be pretty creepy. It's the classic, "why would we need to worry so much about something that looks somewhat like us, to the point that we adapted a fix into our DNA"
japan did have a clue. their artists just suffered a brain drain when all the good ones were called away. weird to think that a whole group of people is unable to conceptualise art?
@@DraconisWyrmthey are talking about art from much older times than you seem to think. Also what they are getting at is that modern understanding of techniques like perspective were created in europe and spread to other cultures quickly but not japan due to it's historic isolation from foreign cultures.
Moreover don't get so defensive about a possibly able to be interpretted rudeness to a country you are not even from to begin with, it's really weird bro.
I hate the idea that some scientists think cavemen didn’t like art for art’s sake. There is evidence that the drawings were made to move in the fire light
They probably had a hard time drawing too
Evidence that they were made to move in the fire light is evidence that it was functional. Almost certainly ceremonial or educational, rather than art for art's sake. You're evidence literally refutes your point.
@@N3ur0m4nc3r ? Literally no. If you wanted to point out where the vulnerable points of an animal were you wouldn’t have it be super hard to see as it moved around in the fire light. Do you think that they actually managed to make the animals look like they were running? If they really were just for teaching, you’d just have a static drawing you could point too. The fire would make them flicker all around and would not have been at all good for teaching. And besides, the hunters would almost never have fired arrows at moving animals because the arrows were too valuable to waste on a target they would almost certainly miss. They hunted by just sneaking up and bowing/spearing the animal by surprise. And besides you said ceremonial use. Have you ever seen something ceremonial with no consideration for aesthetic beauty? What the hell is a purely functional ceremony? Also why should humans have just randomly developed an understanding of art after the era of cave paintings? What would have caused that to come about in humans all over the world? Like even birds like shiny stuff and elephants can paint. There’s also evidence that the shapes of various stone implements were based not on fiction but also were made how they were because they looked pretty
Also a lot of the stuff the ancient aliens weirdos latch onto is just ancient fanasy stories, or religous stories, or a mix of both. "Hey, Ug! What if we make up a story about the Spirits, that's totally seperate from the stuff the shaman tells. Like, a big 'what if' type of story?" "Oh, cool. Yeah. Let's do that. It'll be a hoot, Ur." 20000 years later: "Hey, Sue-Bob! Check this out! It's gotta be proof of aliens!" "Hey, you're right, Bubba-Jethro!"
thank you!!! as an artist myself i've never understood why archaeologists tend to assume *everything* is for some functional purpose. i believe the act of creation for no other reason than expression and aesthetics is the most human action one can do.
I believe, people were making figurines of their loved ones, rather than drawing their faces on a wall, because people would follow migration pattern of animals for a source of boot. Therefore, painting a face on the wall would provide a temporary reference to their loved one, as opposed to having a carved figurine, depicting a loved one which can be carried and reference to provide comfort to the carrier. Since there are figuring that people, this could indicate people were carving, figuring that resemble their loved ones more reminded that of their loved ones so that they can have their loved ones with them at all time. I believe people were always emotional creatures, and having a figurine would provide them a sense of copper, whether the loved one reminded of was alive or dead. so, when, leaving for migration, people would always have their loved ones with them, and did not have to wait to come back to the wallpaper for that feeling of embrace.
Thats a very good point. If you want to remember someone, you take something that represents them with you, especially when you migrate either constantly or monthly from place to place
Maybe thats why we don't find more figurines- youd have to carve it out of stone for it to last the test of time whereas something made of organic/poorly fired material would decompose eventually
I really like that idea
in ancient rome there are many exaggerated femenine figurines - people think women were looking at themselves and carving what they saw to try and understand
My guess for one of the reasons why they don't draw humans in detail might be the uncanny valley effect. Its a lot harder to draw a good looking human compared to an animal. Its so easy to make an off-putting human.
Hell, real living humans can be intensely off-putting without needing to be drawn. Imagine doing a photorealistic picture of that one guy from tiktok and then he dies and everyone who didn't get to see him before you drew him keeps telling you how much your art sucks.
Another possibility regarding hand stencils missing fingers, is arthritis. Ancient skeletons often have evidence of painful arthritis due to their demanding, difficult lifestyles and injuries.
They may have also just.. Curled their fingers?
Arthritis curls fingers also, lol. Maybe it’s both; many people over a massive timespan and all.
I was also thinking about infections. They used their hands for everything, they would surely injure themselves, and with no antibiotics available, amputation is a drastic but effective way to contain a life-threatening infection.
Or even frostbite
there are tribes in new guinea where they cut off their fingers for each relative that dies
"how many pictures of yourself do you have on your phone" 0
that's what your phone wants you to think... 😏👆
@@kittytrail jokes on you the camera is taped up
@@miller8097 you can tape it all you want, there's a reason Edward Snowden removes cameras and microphone from its phones: they've got tiny tentacles used to remove the tape when you least suspect it and then reapply it. _tentacles._ 🐙👆
@@miller8097Imagine having a front camera
@@Randomii666imagine taking an elitist tone when you’re someone who went out of their way to specifically buy a phone without a front camera. I don’t think you’re as interesting as you assume yourself to be
I think it's most likely that the caves weren't a year round living arrangement, they were there for the harshest winter months only, and thus what you're looking at is what the people were looking forward to seeing in the spring. They see each other everyday, but if you're trapped in a cave eating dried meat for a few weeks painting animals that you wanted to see or hunt may have been how you staved off cabin fever.
Pretty sure there are no cave paintings of faces because people didn't have faces back then.
What?? 😭 can u explain
@@BellamyDavilayour species only got faces recently
@@tamish3551 “your species” 💀💀
best one yet
If I had a time machine and wanted to scare some archeologists, I'd look up the most recent cave to be uncovered by archeologists, target that location with the time machine, and draw the middle school S. You know exactly what S I'm talking about.
There's a great video on the history of this called 'The universal S' on a channel called LEMMiNO if you want to find out more about it - some evidence for it back to 1890, but nobody knows for sure where it came from.
@@peglorI've been meaning to watch that but I've never gotten around to it.
@@ianyoder2537 It's a great bit, highly recommend
I'm surprised more people don't talk about the S
Sounds like a really lame prank. If you wanna really do it right, you go to the cave with the most well-documented earliest discovery, and work up a huge mural depicting history from after the time that cave was discovered, and branch off into some of our science fiction movies. THAT'S how you do a time prank.
@@vladyvhv9579 Or use the history mural to suggest there was a much more advanced society before the mural was drawn, but all that's left after the war are rocks to scrape pictures on the wall with, so it becomes a literal version of the idea that we don't know what weapons World War 3 will be fought with, but the 4th World War will be fought with rocks and sticks...
I am 100% sure the "cavemen" drew things everywhere they went. Here in Norway you can find petroglyphs that are upwards of 11000 years old, completely out in the open. They've survived because they were engraved in rock and not done with pigment. I would assume cavemen painted with pigment out in the open but they just didn't make it due to exposure to the elements (as you talked about in the video). As always this video is yet another banger, love the channel!
Got me thinking about caveman road signs and billboards.... Do you think they had warning signs along a path or like, outside their homes? Ancient welcome mats or signs for a healers hut??
Graffiti, but really, really, old.
@@danelynch7171the statues that the inuit are best known for were built along paths if I'm not wrong
For some reason this remind me of a cave painting so high that they have to get a ladder to see, and once they get up there, it bunch of word that translate into "This is very high."
Ah yes! Survivorship bias!
When the camera was first shown to people, it was a pretty common fear that it would steal their souls, perhaps ancient people had a similar belief about cave paintings? Maybe they wanted to capture the souls of animals, but to do so to people would be unthinkable?
"Are you yelling at the video yet?" I was so flustered waiting for you to mention curling the fingers
I think it also about survival of some paintings.
I once visited children's oncology hospital. There was paintings on walls, birds, happy faces, rainbows, batterflys. But this paintings was seriously vandalized. Especially the faces, their smiles and eyes was cut of with parts of the wall, while bird remains same.
My theory that this connected with our recognition of shapes and faces. People often used to ignore little animals, unused furniture, really old trash, etc. But faces make our brain work to decode its meaning. Looking at smiling face one day you will smile back. But looking at it while you sick, or something terrible happened to you or your close one, it make you think "Why this bastard is smiling?!"
This makes a lot of sense, see the tendency people have to deface photos in newspapers and magazines with moustaches, black teeth, because it ''feels funny''. Or defaced old statues from divinities no longer in favor!
This is an extremely good explanation. I would definitely believe this and it makes sense
"On every continent except Antarctica" - Well, if that Miskatonic University mission hadn't gone so badly...
don't you still hear their silent screams when you open your eyes though? 🐙
Oh come now, it went swimmingly... just... don't ask them what they saw past the western mountains.
Well, those bas-reliefs weren't made by humans, so fuck 'em. The shoggoths and penguins can have them.
Those giant penguins would be neat as pets or guard animals in a cave.
I don't think that what you can find in the ruins of Corona Mundi can be classified as cave paintings.
I don't even think you can even attempt to *classify* anything in Corona Mundi
"William Shakes-Spear".
By Jove, that's actually clever and apt. Kudos, wee man.
About the first one; in my country India people in the rural areas still put hand stamps on the house's main door for good fortune and to ward off evil spirits. It's pretty interesting since no one even knows how old this tradition is.
Indigenous Australians have a culture where they avoid depictions of dead relatives, so for them at least is why they didn't do any faces
A lot of cultures have traditions of not showing faces. In the Ottoman Empire and prior Islamic caliphates, it was completely illegal to make paintings of people’s faces. And even today it is considered very offensive in Islam to show the face of the Prophet Muhammad. Nobody knows what he truly looked like and depictions of what his face looked like are seen as extremely offensive and taboo.
But cultures change, the aboriginal painting was 12 thousand years old. That same tradition could have stayed but that’s very far-fetched
@@Tommytheslav Except it isn't. Aboriginal culture has essentially been unchanged for well over 60,000 years. They're the oldest living culture on earth, not the oldest people group as some often mistakenly believe.
Aboriginal here, Bingo thank you that is the correct answer @shakeelali20
Mare we have no way of knowing that. For all we know these traditions could have stated a day before captain cook landed. its so stupid to say that aboriginal tribal laws are 60 thousand years old because we have no idea how old they are.@shakeelali20
I never expected to get schooled on the ancient world by QXIR, a subject I know pretty well. I'm impressed!
I'll assume QXIR is the subject you know pretty well
Nobody knows anything very well, which is something that I know very well.
Nobody knows ancient history very well. There's always gonna be artifact and languages lost forever
@@SofaKingShitlol. Funny. 😅
I studied the Chauvet cave paintings (and other cave paintings) in art school. The thing that always fascinated me was that these people were living a difficult life that consumed a lot of energy in order to survive. A lot of cave paintings were super deep in the cave, high up on their ceilings (meaning that they had to build some kind of scaffolding/ladder system or something that allowed them to climb up to the ceiling/wall.) So, not only was their daily life consuming huge amounts of energy, but they were consuming precious energy just to paint these images. A lot of researchers believe that they weren't going to be wasting time and energy on just making art for art's sake, but that these were a cataloging system that were highly important for their survival. Basically, they were telling others "Hey, these animals are here. You can eat them" or "Watch out for this animal, it can kill you."
This was before humans started inventing written languages, so the paintings were our earliest form of pictographic communication between humans. Essentially, the first graphic design. :) It's really cool, because even as modern humans we can still decipher what a lot of the paintings mean or what they represent, and the artistic techniques they were using (line, form, value, etc.) are techniques that are still being taught today in art schools, but they weren't even thinking about that when they were painting these. They were most likely just thinking about surviving and communicating how to survive with others.
There's also a theory that a lot of Venus figures are self portraits! Their distorted shape looks a lot like the foreshortening of someone looking down on themselves, and it explains the lack of a face.
Yes, a horrible theory that makes no sense.
I mean people did know what they themselves looked like, and besides they could just look at another person to see the shape of a human. Worst theory ever.
Imagine making some really cool pictures of animals in a cave, and then a couple million years later some Irish RUclipsr compliments your work
Thousand*
What's going on with his accent in the out takes at then end ???😶😶😶😶😶
@@user-gt4gs5xu6s *hundred-thousand
The two theories that make sense to me: The first being really simple, the uncanny valley. Humans are hard to draw, hands and faces especially in my (limited) experience. The second being that people were worried about their souls. When photographs started becoming a thing, people were worried that having their picture taken would take a piece of their soul. Perhaps early humans had the same concern about drawings. Or maybe some adjacent religious or superstitious reason. Maybe I'm wrong on both counts.
People are weird and hard to understand.
Third theory: Depicting animals in detail is how you call upon their species' strengths. Thus, depicting a detailed human, you've just wasted time and effort and space for no gain.
Yeah just imagine some weird looking silhouette lol
四 theoryann: they no draw picture human cave, cause they no want be encased within cave after death.
Cave paintings are often drawings of important animals (food or threat), maybe they were, as a form of communication, used to store information about how to kill an animal in case someone needs it or something, we often use vague abstract human shapes, like stick figures, for instructions too
It may also be a combination of superstition and practicality. If you're using the paintings to depict animal bodies in detail for the purpose of training children where to harm them in order to hunt, it's kind of tempting fate to also have detailed depictions of a human since Timmy The Psycho Child will just apply what he has learned and start examining the drawing.
I’d absolutely love to hear you talk more about Art! Whether as a part of these Enigma Files or other!
These are great and fascinating! Thank you 🧡
Plz never stop. Now that barely sociable’s gone you’re the only one that makes informative videos that aren’t annoying
wdym he's gone?
@@rokkraljkolesa9317 when’s the last time he posted?
@@HarpieSummers his last tweet was last month, I made sure to check after reading your comment
@@rokkraljkolesa9317 oh I just follow his yt. So he didn’t necessarily leave, he just abandoned me
6:06 Dude. When that came on the screen, for just a split second, my brain told me they were shadows, not drawing. I wonder if they made a fire and had people stand in front of it so they could trace their shadows on the wall. The way it stretches and deforms as it goes up the rock looks just like a shadow made by a light that is low or on the ground.
They were typically pretty deep in these cave systems. Like it took some doing to get as far back as they’ve found; they absolutely had to have fire. That’s a pretty cool observation fs
@@kevinsayesYes, exactly. And tracing shadows would also explain what he says about them being vague without any distinguishable features. If they trace a shadow, all they're going to get is a distorted outline of a person that they'd probably just fill in with very little detail.
i remember there being mentions of people say that when the first photographs where coming into trend and overal use, there where stories of people not wanting to get captured on camera thinking it would steal there souls.
Now im not sure how much peleo humans where aware of the soul in the same way we are or the concept but maybe they where also like that where making a indevidual to detailed would capture them in a sense, maybe in a very litteral sense to them.
This is actually what I was gonna comment.
Souls don’t exist. Our consciousness is a product of our brain and disappears when the brain dies.
@@asteroidkatfacts1036Its a small world afterall :)
That's a very interesting theory
absolutely, there is still a strong tradition amongst some aboriginal Australians to avoid capturing and displaying the likeness of people in life and after death (their faces and voice via photos, video or audio) because it's thought to bind the beheld to the world of the living, viewing the likeness of the dead drawing them closer to our world. on TV sometimes you get a disclamer before a programme which contains voices or images of the dead. facinating stuff.
Interesting, but what was supposedly 'creepy' about this?
I really enjoyed this video style, puzzling and reasoning through a conundrum, trying to investigate all the possible solutions. I’d love to see more videos with topics like this!
my theory with the detailed animal paintings is that its a great way to teach the young ones (or anyone) to identify what are good animals and bad animals.
You dont need a detailed painting of a human to identify one. But an animal? You'll need as much detail as possible to know what to hunt and what to avoid.
That makes a lot of sense, plus you can show where vital organs/weak points are a lot easier with detailed drawings
That’s a really good idea!
Was looking for a comment like this. The caves were probably used by hunting networks to show what animals were in the area and the best ways to hunt them. Most likely for nomadic tribes or people migrating or traveling from and to different places. There weren't a lot of people around back then, but there were still lots of people around back then, moving around all over the place.
This makes sense. Wolves in cave paintings are an indication they are older paintings. As time goes on, you see them less and less, until around 14k years ago when wolf/dog domestication was practically global, when there's only one example of a wolf drawing from that era. Them being absent in this period, along with the general absence of humans, indicates that the paintings served chiefly as a teaching mechanism, and the child by that point has already grown up around wolves their whole life and doesn't need to be taught about them.
This is especially weird because you find things like wolf-bone jewellery in a lot of areas, near caves with animal paintings, but no paintings of wolves. So... were they being hunted? In which case, why not paint them. Or harvested when dead by other means, which seems more likely. So it's really the best explanation. (In addition, it's thought the wolf-bone jewellery was a kind of totemic thing to indicate "My tribe works with wolves", or could have been a form of honouring the dead ones and keeping them with us).
The Chauvet cave is a concrete example. Hundreds and hundreds of detailed drawings of animals. No humans. No wolves. But a child's footprints next to the footprints of an adult wolf are also preserved there, with indications the child was holding a torch at the time the footprints were made. "Garcia suggested that the child and dog might have explored the cave together. Charcoal from a torch the child carried is 26,000 years old."
(It's a stretch to call them dogs at this time. They're kind of proto-dogs or neowolves, not quite speciated yet. They're halfway done though.). The Chauvet footprint of the wolf actually captures this very well, as it has characteristics of both wolves and dogs.
A significant portion of what was once land during the prehistoric era is now miles out under the ocean and modern archaeology indicates humans may have taken the west coast of north america down to south america in on of the earliest migrations. It's possible that the cultures that were drawing faces just drew all those faces in places that moved under the ocean.
Never heard of this channel, this might be one of the best videos I've ever seen
1:50 “until you consider that fingers are handy”
what a missed opportunity
Grug: Grug draw Ug. Ug like?
Ug: This awful. Not look like Ug. Never do again.
The human face is where an artist shows their actual skill level, I imagine many found it hard. And were cool depicting their love with a wide hipped stick figure.
in that case we should at least find some tries of when they tried to paint one... 🙄
@kittytrail well since caves may have played a important role for a group they probably practiced not in the cave so they got washed away
@@kittytrail Significance. Likely, part of why a detailed animal would be painted is to call upon the strength of that animal, in the case of stuff like bears, horses. Or a means of attempting to summon, in the case of stuff like deer. Drawing a detailed human is at best futile (you gain no strengths), and you'd not want to be summoning more people to the area.
@@kittytrail well they maybe tried and then got embarrassed or didnt want to waste space in the cave and washed it away
@@ziphy_6471 sure, that's probably why they had *amazon.prehi* deliver so much Simple Green™ and cave brushies to their caves... 😼👍
What a surprisingly great video. Not that most videos of your's aren't great, but it's so bloody reflected and obviously well researched. The whole presentation, including the title, follows the "oooh spooky!" side of RUclips, but the content is actually extremely interesting and well presented. Bravo mate.
Around the 13:25 you ask that somewhere out there, there's gotta be undiscovered caves yet, and yes, possible, even likely, but not as many as you'd think and for one simple fact alone: Sea levels. The Sea levels before the last glacial maximum were a lot, and I mean _a lot_, lower. The British Isles were accessible by foot, and Doggerland was still above water. Paleolithic humans were naturally drawn to the ocean shores, where food was way more abundant, and likely had the majority of their sites there. As the sea levels rose, those caves that could've otherwise preserved paintings from tens of thousands of years of weather erosion have long since sunk under the waves, destroying any chance of preservation. The cultural background lost by that fact alone is staggering. Our modern idea of civilisation starts with the first cities some 6-7 thousand years ago in Mesopotamia, or maybe with the Agricultural Revolution some 12 thousand years ago. Look at all the art we've created in that time, then remember that modern humans lived in Europe for almost 60 thousand years, while our Neanderthal cousins lived here for well over 200 thousand years, and we know they created art too. The cultural wealth that time has robbed us off is breathtaking.
Yep! Some of the cave art we're aware of today is inaccessible to the average person because the cave entrance is now underwater!
@@Qxir And that's the astronomically rare case where anything was preserved. Humid conditions annihilate the organic paints of the cave art, which is why they closed off Chauvet I to the public and recreated it nearby as Chauvet II. Which, by the way, I can only recommend if you ever swing by there, fantastic experience.
Fyi....u are absolutely my #1favorite channel!!!! Ur super talented and original!!
It's a reasonably common belief across the whole world that images, especially of humans, can somehow channel or capture souls. It's possible that belief led to a desire not to depict specific humans in such a permanent way.
With how common masks representing gods/ancestors are in various rituals, my personal speculation would be that wooden human masks had widespread ritual use before cave painting developed (carving wood is easier and more widespread than painting), and painting humans would have been seen as transgressing that tradition.
I feel like carving wood is far harder than painting.
@@ondrejurban2634 Possibly, it depends. But trees are more common than caves.
I think you nailed it with the idea that the individual was not as important as the survival of the group as a whole. So having numerous yet generic human figures was more significant than who the numerous stick figures were specifically.
Communism?
@@BlakeHenson-zx8ce species survival
@@tonymastro42 (I say this as a red blooded freedom loving American) It kind of was communism to be fair. That's basically the only situation it works, a relatively small group of people with the same goals and ideals where everybody benefits off everybody working for the greater good of the entire group.
@@tynj4173 commie
@@tynj4173 It's not really "socialism" the way we think about it. It was really just a family.
Hi!! Anthropologist here with a specialization in paleoarcheology!!! I just wanted to mention a super cool fact about the human figure in Chauvet cave at 5:51. I know it doesn’t look super humanlike, but it’s actually one of the first known depictions of a structure recognizable in art to this day! The pubic triangle! It’s also a composite creature, her top half being a bull. Super interesting video!!
I really like this video. As an archaeologist you present some really good examples, theories and analysis which introduces the subject really well.
Something also worth considering is the lack of depictions of Pre-Roman humans in the UK. There's not that many as far as I'm aware.
3:50 I like to think it was an early from of instruction manual. When hunting, you'd need to communicate silently so as not to alert the target. The wall had all of the gestures on it as a reference guide or teaching tool.
Plenty of prehistoric people lived in caves, or at least visited regularly. We have lots of sites that show signs of humans living in caves. But that's one of the things that makes a lot of cave paintings strange. It only makes sense to live in shallow caves, or in the mouth of the cave. Not only for the reasons Qxir mentioned but also the possibility of dangerous animals deep inside. However a lot of the cave drawings we find are inconveniently deep in twisting, turning caves.
Humans rarely lived in caves. Theyre just excellent preservation locations.
I think its more likely that only the paintings in deep caves survived than they only painted deep in caves. In 15000 years, there's lots of rain, snow, sunlight, wind, earthquakes, bugs, animals etc that will damage everything. There were probably way more drawings done on the entrance of caves than deep within, but they didnt last. You have to remember, most of these paintings are barely more permanent than chalk on the sidewalk, a thing which only lasts a few days to weeks when fully exposed.
Which dangerous animal lives deep in caves, is a danger to humans, but doesn't frequent the entrance anyway?
"deep inside" like actual animals or Kobolds?
@@nouhorni3229they probably didn't know that there was nothing out to kill them down there, but they didn't want to stick around and find out. Even today, people are afraid of the dark, of the unknown
Ha the bloopers were very relatable. Whenever I try to record something its always like that, then i feel stupid and give up lol. Its good to know thats what good youtubers actually go thru too. Thanks for leaving those in. Makes me feel better ha.
The curled fingers translates to live, laugh, love lol
I suspect there was a very different view of the importance of individual identity back when you spend every day ensuring you had something to eat, could stay warm at night, and weren't about to be eaten by something yourself. Interesting stuff dude, thanks!
Doctor Alice Roberts visited a group of San people in Africa for a tv series about anthropology. They don’t have a concept of beauty. The women choose their partner, and they don’t care about looks, but choose a man for his hunting skills.
@@kellydalstok8900 very interesting! Thanks
The yakuza is a much older organization than previously thought
💀
I don't get it.
@@nuclearmonster6601 yakuza is known for their fondness of taking off fingers
@@nuclearmonster6601when yakuza members failed at something or brought dishonor to the organization, they chop off their own finger as payment. - from what I understand on the topic
this is the first video of yours I've watched, and I'm about to watch like 12 more of these, great content man!:)
These are the type of vids i want to see, it seems everyone has the same content but this ive never thought about or heard of tyvm! 😊
"and their teeth and claws were a source of death"
I'm not sure if that's you being educational or dry Irish humour, but I love it
Do want to start by saying great video, was invested the entire time, but id also like to note I heavily appreciate the bloopers at the end, this may have been what it took to get me to try RUclips. I guess its a silly assumption to think all of the more popular creators get it right the first time but this makes me feel a bit better at giving it a go thank you!
Finger mutilation has simply no sense at all. To begin with, I don't think the available tools would be able to cut through finger bones, no matter how thin they are, you may argue that they might cut right in the phalanx joint, but anyways that's not even the biggest reason why it sounds like something no one would do: dexterity. You don't want to have missing fingers, especially as a hunter gatherer, who needed to all of their fingers for tasks such as hunting and processing game, tool building, and other basic tasks that require a complete pair of hands.
Anyone could have an accident and loose a finger or two, but doing it on purpose? Yeah, no.
Probably we should consider the possibility that it was the sapient buffalo or wildebeast that drew those and not the newly evolved humans. They drew detailed images of their loved ones beautifully but purposely made stick man to depict us with contempt, showing we are but a footnote at that time. And, that is why Grug was sad back then.
Maybe it's all graffiti saying, "the chief is a fink", and other things about his mother
Berrypicker af.
I love these videos of yours. Seriously, you are an inspiration my guy ❤
Nah the growth has been amazing. Last time I checked you were at like 300 thousand I think. Congrats on 1 million subscribers.
I really miss the old style stick figure type drawings so much they were the best 😊
They still exist, but they are only for the Tales From the Bottle series
He’s probably trying something that will boost the algorithm. But I feel he’s being suppressed for whatever reason. YT, Google, FBook etc aren’t very open to criticism
Is it possible that the uncanny valley phenomenom affected prehistoric man more than us?
I once heard someone theorize that the uncanny valley phenomenon originated with prehistoric humans. With survival being extremely difficult back then, there had to have been alot of human corpses lying about. Corpses rot, and when they do, they become disfigured. They also produce alot of bacteria that can get you sick. So prehistoric man evolved to have this instinct to know that these disfigured bodies were a source of illness and harm and to steer clear of them.
That is actually an interesting idea...
@@izziewolf2834omg that makes so much more sense than human like figures hunting them (although I’d like to believe that more because I’m a horror enthusiast)
Your bloopers are adorable and make me feel better about life 😂
Also, great content.
"Grug, you draw me like how draw animal?"
"Hell no. Grug not know how draw eyes."
please keep doing bloopers at the end when you have them it was actually mad funny watching you fuck up over and over
Funny I just watched a video by AlphaPheonix who said he leaves in fuck-ups to show every video uploaded isn't a smooth ride.
With a nice little Smiths ditty added in! ❤
@@catperson6146 Just like every body else does...hell yeah.
@@ceceliablazek6909 one of my favorites!!
>when literal proto-humans can draw animals more realistically than me in the 21st century AD
Fuck, that one stings
They were fully evolved homo sapiens.
Don't take it too hard, you're still way better if you have a camera
What do xou expect? They were just like you are today, only with less stuff and knowledge.
Just remember that humans back then are pretty much the same as humans now so when it comes to something as accessible as art then its just a practice thing
They're a lot more like you than you may think and they had much less to do back then. I'm sure they had a great deal of time to practice
I mean there's places mentioned by name in ancient texts that we have no way of figuring out where they are, because it was such common knowledge that no one thought to write it down. Could also be something about having a detailed person drawn on your wall being a jumpscare every time you walk into the room
11:52 another theory for this one specifically is that it’s from the perspective of someone looking down at their own body
The proportions line up and the faceless nature seems to line up with that
14 sec no views qxir fell off
Why is this everywhere?
2mins 344views
Qxir is elite
These kinds of comments should classify as spam
Npc copy paste unoriginal like begging nobody
Wow, so creative! I sure haven’t seen this comment 31 times before!
Really interesting take on cave art. It's something I've been fascinated by for a long time, and frankly your matter of fact reasoning, particularly regarding the lack of humans being represented, is pretty much what I've thought (in my amateur status, though I have studied art history and other subjects which include cave art).
Absolutely cracking video, mate. More like it, please!
I love when people ask me how many pictures I have of myself on my phone and I show them I literally don't even have one
Didn’t think I could like this video more, then you start singing the smiths in the bloopers 😊 gonna go listen to that now!
Ponderings on the meaning of prehistoric cave art and a Smiths song too, Qxir is truly a man of many talents, thanks again for yet another great video.
It's while watching this that I desire the most to have a conversation with ancient people.
I've watched a couple of your videos but I've never subscribed. This one I watched while I was eating dinner and I just let it play after you had "ended" the topic which I've never done before. Watching you struggle to speak for 5 minutes was hilarious and is why I'm subscribing to you now 😂
The intro music creeps me out, I love it.
Reminds me of the NIN/David Bowie intro credit music from Se7en!
@@skylined5534YOOOO it actually does 🤔
Hash tag #Venjent - he'll make it full track hitting harder :)
Cave paintings will never not be inherently creepy to me because of that one Ice Age scene where Manny sees the depiction of a mammoth hunt and the paintings move and make sounds. Freaked me the hell out as a kid.
I've been enjoying your videos for a while now, and I think this is the best yet. Very thought provoking!
It's an interesting conundrum as to why so many prehistoric cultures refrained from depicting realistic human expressions. They're either blank (i.e. cave paintings), covered (many venus figurines), or highly stylized (i.e. Nahar Nemar cave masks). I can't help but wonder if these prehistoric cultures viewed such detailed depictions of the human face as stealing the soul of the person being drawn? I ask because this seems to be a common universal reaction when recently contacted tribes are explained what photographs are?
Also if you are really into ancient rock art, check out Barrier Canyon Style. Some of the styalized human figures have as much detail and a showcase of skill as those realistic animal paintings from Chauvet Cave in France.
I came here to post this as well. “Static image capturing the essence” is a very very common reaction, arguably the default one, in humans. So one could easily theorise that these ancient humans wanted to capture the essence of the great herds they relied on and lock them close by, but were unwilling to so trap themselves (by bulk of geography and amount of different religions moreso than modern followers reincarnative beliefs are also quite clearly humanities default spiritual conclusion).
Trapping the mere bison to stay here to hunt is good. Trapping my actualised soul here to wander for eternity? Not so good…
I lean towards taboo, same as in the past with taking self photos and self paintings.
Artists back then: Hands only, no faces
Artists now: Hands too hard, I’ll just do faces thanks
You’ve made me think about prehistoric art in a way I’ve never considered before with this video. Thanks. Do you know of any examples of “Grunk feel…” or is that a relatively modern invention? Earned my subscription with this one.
Man, I feel like this could be turned into a pretty good creepypasta. Why are there no cave paintings of human faces? Definitely feels like there could be a spooky reason to it
"I'm an anthropologist. Today I finally understood why prehistoric humans didn't paint their faces on cave walls"
That's the lengthy title variant that many creepypastas use today, which is kinda cringe. So here's a shorter one: "The story of humanity's first portrait". Sounds kinda cool now, right? Creepypasta writers get to work!
@@coolersnoipah173🫡
Nice combination of your sketches and face video! I like the way this new direction is going. 🙂
This video felt very "maybe, perhaps, could be" instead of laying out various possibilities, let us use our brain and spike up our curiosity
Now this is an interesting topic. Prehistory and horror. What a great idea for a video.
I've studied drawing faces & it's not easy. For hunter-gathers struggling to survive, maybe the never found time for learning to draw realistic faces. And the uncanny valley makes us uncomfortable seeing almost realistic faces.
Struggling to survive?
@@2ndHytoth There's good evidence to say the farmers that followed the hunter gatherers were significantly less healthy, certainly based on average height and dental health.
@@peglorsurvival bias, it’s easier for the unhealthy to survive once farming comes along, there were no unhealthy hunter gathers because they died before they could get that unhealthy minor unhealthiness meant death so you find no dead highly unhealthy.
@@TQFMTradingStrategies That's an excellent point, but I don't think this fully explains the difference.
@@2ndHytothHunter-gathers often do. That's not to say there are not also good times when there is an abundance of prey animals & edible plants available.
There is a belief my Vietnamese parents have told me about in which photos featuring 3 people can bring about bad luck, with the person in the middle marked for death. There's also the general superstition of photos capturing a person's soul/essence. That could be a potential reason why individual people weren't depicted. There's also the "uncanny valley" theory in which something that looks too much like a person can be unnerving. A near perfect doppelganger of your early hominid brethren could unintentionally be terrifying to them.
Those theories that you called flimsy were actually very well thought out possibilities. Great vid
Really interesting video; thank you for making it! 👍
You've shown you're able to put together such badass trippy edits that it makes me curious and interested to see what kind of trippy abstract edits u could put together. Like side projects of pure creative expression. They don't need meaning, unless you want. I'd just be curious to see what it would be like if you dove deeper into that aspect. Because all the talent is there and you definitely have a creative mindset. I know this was Hella random. My bad for rambling about a random topic lol
Keep up the awesome content. Definitely at the top of some of my favorite most unique channels. It's crazy how certain RUclips channels are so good that I consider them better than most any forms of media nowadays.
Couldn't agree more! 😄
Heck yeah!
Love the fact you included the struggle of juggling Multi languages. Mate from work is welsh and he's got a collection of fun words