@@daxl505 Being able to complete the long victory and defeat the end game crisis on turn 8 is a pretty big fucking deal, so yeah idk why they're so low for single player
@@the_king_of_kings_3413playing as Noctilus, just focus on building up your ship, getting mortars as soon as possible. Recruit about 5 or 6 of those and only use mission units. Ignore all the melee fodder (unless it is all you can raise.) Don’t conquer cities, instead establish pirate coves. Build the ones that siphon 50% income in capitals and other income buildings in smaller cities/coves. Only recruit a second lord if and when you have to defend your city, raising an army. Focus your tech tree and lord skills on improving your gun/artillery units, and use your infamy to buy the unique lords asap. Before long you’ll have an amazing economy with a number of strong horde armies. It will continue to snowball from there. With Harkon, do the same, but only conquer your starting province, keeping an army there to defend when needed. Sometimes just the presence of a force is enough to deter invasions. Prioritize garrison buildings first, income buildings second, and then landmarks. You don’t need recruitment buildings at home. Just on ships. Don’t play as the other 2 lords, because they are worthless.
Great video, as a multiplayer player and campaign enjoyer myself, i think the concept at 25:00 that Monsters is struggling with, in regards to greenskin dominance in multiplayer when he says in campaign you take "whats efficient as well" in campaign you take whats income/recruit time efficient, in multiplayer you take what is upfront cost efficient, a great example is goblin wolf riders, don't really see much play in green skin campaigns even with skarsnik there is better options quite early on (spider riders or even better squig hoppers) but in multiplayer such a cheap, fast, vanguard deploying, 80 entity unit for fuck all gold cost is just fantastic combined with waaagh, they become quite the menace, since greenskins are also one of the few factions that actually gets access to its racial global mechanic in multiplayer Green is best
Oldhammer and Multi-Player fan here. Their discussions tell me that some are very biased and not very good at the game even in Single player. When they were surprised that Bret were good? That was when I realised some are just shit talkers. When I heard Dwarf is B tier? Hahaha I was done. Not gonna take this video seriously. Only DahvPlays makes sense, and he is really patient and nice to them. Big fan
lol, I love beastmen, but their campaign play is super boring. By turn 20 you've usually seen everything and know you're going to win, and since they can't participate in diplomacy or have some interesting campaign events, or many settlements you have to defend, by turn 20 you've really kind of done everything. I wish they had more interesting things going on that would direct your expansions or other interesting mechanics, maybe something like WoC that makes you need to go to certain areas to recruit certain units, or more interesting events for the moon etc.
I wouldn't discount war wagons for single player. complete sleeper unit. its a tier 2 unit from a building your getting anyway for the engineer hero so ez recruitment. they are chariots so they can take ridiculous damage and come out unscathed. nigh infinite ammo, large mass for more charge dmg than light cavalry. you can even doomstack them with a hochland scope master engineer.
Waagh is incredibly powerful in campaign. Make as many armies as you can of the cheapest goblins, call a waagh, get a bunch of powerful units to follow them around.
I think you gotta differenciate. Khazrak beastmen is a pretty dope leader but oh boy you got your hands full with fighting your first settlement battle. Taurox on the other hand is just a badass murder spree campaign ^^ maligor can have a pretty tough start as well and morghur is just the "you cant lose" campaign Interesting how our opinions differ on greenskins. Although i have some critique about how ork infantry gets trumped by goblins and that the squig unit buffs are on the wrong part of the tech tree. Btw big buff you can now recruit regular trolls in 1 turn which makes them surprisingly relevant!
I still think that giving daniel a research tree and maybe just mabye equipment would already improve his campaign by a lot, i think sacrificing both for his campaign mechanic is just to much and doesnt leave u with a lot of gaining faction power during ur campaign. A tree for every chaos god and could be nice
You need a different mindset for Vampire Coast than any other race, anyone who says they have terrible economy only shows his inexperience and lack of ability with this certain race, Vampire Coast is one of the strongest and most thematic campaigns I have done in warhammer, multiple ones at the hardest difficulties both battle and campaign. Both in terms of campaign strength and battle strength, they are at the top, but they require a slightly different way of playing and planning than whats most usual.
Multiplayer in this case means specifically land battles. Domination plays very different. Single entity healing isn't that impactful there, your units dying instead of routing is actually good because it means quicker resummon and ability to take ground is important which makes box factions like dwarves and cathay awful. I find it kind of funny how different the land battle tier list is below S tier compared to Humanboy's recent tier list. I kind of feel Davh didn't go to enough detail which few units some factions are very reliant on and if they aren't good for a matchup the faction is just doomed. And they sort of mentioned it in some point, but unit efficiency works very differently depending on if the army has to survive to fight multiple battles, or whether you are fighting an opponent with equal budget or not. War wagons and boar boy big uns especially are the kind of units that are godawful if they have to fight against an opponent that greatly outnumbers them. But in case of equal budget they trade up against their preferred target.
how the hell is khorne c tier you can literally take on endgame crisis by turn 8 and complete the campaign .It rather seems like you rank the faction based on your taste in single player
15:58 I wasn't aware that this podcast has a time limit--for such a discussion, where opinions can go any number of ways, and where the criteria seemed, at best, to be semi-vague, WTF does it matter that three races took you half an hour? Like, with the right people this discussion could/should frankly go four-five
Apart from being all over the place when it comes to balancing either fun or power aspects...how do you have this weird lineup? Dahv is the only multiplayer guy and you other 3 are just all over the place. The guy with the red shirt, even though his voice is quite nice to listen to, is just wrong here. He is jaded/ bored by the game and seems to have a severe lack of game knowledge. 90% of the greenskin roster trades incredibly well against most factions...and havs done that since the waagh rework. The dwarfs just sit and shoot? After the magic dmg rework to hammerers and this new slayer and gunpowder dlc, dwarfs are very versatile. Hammerer or slayer troops do sooo much dmg, their airforce is op as hell and their lords/ heroes are very well balanced. And I don't even like them that much. This was kind of fun to listen to and agree/disagree after all. Next time, please more structure to the whole setup and it will go anlot smoother.
Green skins are S tier in campaign they are an automatic snow ball with their cheap units high AM damage and campaign mechanics. Outside of Dahv you all aren't credible gamer's at all. Entertaining yes but y'all game suck 🤣
The tierlist should be power rating, and a separate fun-list. Because FUN IS SUBJECTIVE.
I love how immediately this went completely off the rails lol
I don’t understand what you guys are rating based off for singleplayer. You seem to flip from power-based to fun-based on every second race.
I noticed that it seemed like they were disagreeing on what matters for what in the tiers so now idk if this is even useful
Putting Khorne in C it's just unacceptable. The strongest race should get S+ tier.
@@daxl505 Being able to complete the long victory and defeat the end game crisis on turn 8 is a pretty big fucking deal, so yeah idk why they're so low for single player
yeah, weird rating for SP. sometimes fun, sometimes, mechanic, sometimes difficulty
Yall touch grass. Stop freaking out about friends making a tier list....
NerdrageFred said on stream that this entire tear list was unstructured and a mistake.
You were the only one who understood how to play the Vamp Coast. They can be very powerful faction if you don’t try to build an empire.
Can you explain how to play Vamp Coast?
@@the_king_of_kings_3413playing as Noctilus, just focus on building up your ship, getting mortars as soon as possible.
Recruit about 5 or 6 of those and only use mission units. Ignore all the melee fodder (unless it is all you can raise.)
Don’t conquer cities, instead establish pirate coves. Build the ones that siphon 50% income in capitals and other income buildings in smaller cities/coves.
Only recruit a second lord if and when you have to defend your city, raising an army.
Focus your tech tree and lord skills on improving your gun/artillery units, and use your infamy to buy the unique lords asap.
Before long you’ll have an amazing economy with a number of strong horde armies. It will continue to snowball from there.
With Harkon, do the same, but only conquer your starting province, keeping an army there to defend when needed. Sometimes just the presence of a force is enough to deter invasions.
Prioritize garrison buildings first, income buildings second, and then landmarks. You don’t need recruitment buildings at home. Just on ships.
Don’t play as the other 2 lords, because they are worthless.
@@djn6962 "Don't play as the other 2 lords, because they are worthless." me be like at that last comment 😂🤣
@@the_king_of_kings_3413looks like that very quote may have gotten my comment deleted. As I cannot see it anymore. Hope you got the info! Haha
@@djn6962 LOL!!!!
*angry norscan noises*
Though i will admit im the only one alive who does play Norsca.
nah homie, me too (granted, it leans HEAVILY in Wintertooth's favor, but nonetheless)
You guys have convinced me to play Norsca too
@@drifterodysseus6237 you'll be fine. Just don't neglect the wolf units. They are basically the spine of sorts in an Norscan Army.
@@drifterodysseus6237play Norse Lords mod, gives all the norscan tribes LL and if you play with Mixu’s LL it’s really freaking fun!!!
Fun one yet .This immediately went all over the place, but it was still fun and Dahv was the main Carry of this vid tho
Great video, as a multiplayer player and campaign enjoyer myself, i think the concept at 25:00 that Monsters is struggling with, in regards to greenskin dominance in multiplayer when he says in campaign you take "whats efficient as well" in campaign you take whats income/recruit time efficient, in multiplayer you take what is upfront cost efficient, a great example is goblin wolf riders, don't really see much play in green skin campaigns even with skarsnik there is better options quite early on (spider riders or even better squig hoppers) but in multiplayer such a cheap, fast, vanguard deploying, 80 entity unit for fuck all gold cost is just fantastic combined with waaagh, they become quite the menace, since greenskins are also one of the few factions that actually gets access to its racial global mechanic in multiplayer
Green is best
Wolf Riders are great against Skaven in campaign.
I swear, people STILL don't know how to play Vampire Coast (one of the strongest factions in the game.) It's just funny at this point.
Rush colossus doom-stack right? Supply lines got nerfed in WHIII, so doomstacks are less important than coverage of fronts.
@@R3GARnator True but on a levelled general necrofex colossi are like 160 a pop
“I’ll take that interaction” …..about that……
i can listen to u guys all day.
Oldhammer and Multi-Player fan here. Their discussions tell me that some are very biased and not very good at the game even in Single player.
When they were surprised that Bret were good? That was when I realised some are just shit talkers. When I heard Dwarf is B tier? Hahaha I was done. Not gonna take this video seriously.
Only DahvPlays makes sense, and he is really patient and nice to them. Big fan
lol, I love beastmen, but their campaign play is super boring. By turn 20 you've usually seen everything and know you're going to win, and since they can't participate in diplomacy or have some interesting campaign events, or many settlements you have to defend, by turn 20 you've really kind of done everything. I wish they had more interesting things going on that would direct your expansions or other interesting mechanics, maybe something like WoC that makes you need to go to certain areas to recruit certain units, or more interesting events for the moon etc.
I agree and the same goes for Asrai
so is this...fun rating or how strong they are? Kind conflicting on whats being ranked
Yeah I don’t understand either, and is multiplayer for battles or campaign? Kinda confusing
@@_Kaelstrom_ I’m assuming they are talking about multiplayer campaign but who knows.
@@_Kaelstrom_by “multiplayer” they’re referring to land battles player vs player, not campaign
Yes.
Ain't no one gonna talk about the meme voice line in the chaos dwarfs?
Explain…
Fred is based as always
Id like to see the same layout done but singleplayer only and the 2 different lists are based off of fun and power.
this was a mess lol
I wouldn't discount war wagons for single player. complete sleeper unit. its a tier 2 unit from a building your getting anyway for the engineer hero so ez recruitment. they are chariots so they can take ridiculous damage and come out unscathed. nigh infinite ammo, large mass for more charge dmg than light cavalry. you can even doomstack them with a hochland scope master engineer.
You can fix the loudness of audio on the same track using a type of compressor called a limiter. Takes like 5 minutes
I love you guys, but this thing needs a bit more moderation and structure.
Theres a reason why most podcasts are duos or at most trios. Theres science on that :)
Waagh is incredibly powerful in campaign. Make as many armies as you can of the cheapest goblins, call a waagh, get a bunch of powerful units to follow them around.
If you don't like defensive shooty armies play Ungrim Ironfist the Slayer King and just use slayers.
I think you gotta differenciate. Khazrak beastmen is a pretty dope leader but oh boy you got your hands full with fighting your first settlement battle. Taurox on the other hand is just a badass murder spree campaign ^^ maligor can have a pretty tough start as well and morghur is just the "you cant lose" campaign
Interesting how our opinions differ on greenskins. Although i have some critique about how ork infantry gets trumped by goblins and that the squig unit buffs are on the wrong part of the tech tree.
Btw big buff you can now recruit regular trolls in 1 turn which makes them surprisingly relevant!
Trolls ARE the geenskin's cavalry.
I still think that giving daniel a research tree and maybe just mabye equipment would already improve his campaign by a lot, i think sacrificing both for his campaign mechanic is just to much and doesnt leave u with a lot of gaining faction power during ur campaign. A tree for every chaos god and could be nice
You need a different mindset for Vampire Coast than any other race, anyone who says they have terrible economy only shows his inexperience and lack of ability with this certain race, Vampire Coast is one of the strongest and most thematic campaigns I have done in warhammer, multiple ones at the hardest difficulties both battle and campaign. Both in terms of campaign strength and battle strength, they are at the top, but they require a slightly different way of playing and planning than whats most usual.
Multiplayer in this case means specifically land battles. Domination plays very different. Single entity healing isn't that impactful there, your units dying instead of routing is actually good because it means quicker resummon and ability to take ground is important which makes box factions like dwarves and cathay awful. I find it kind of funny how different the land battle tier list is below S tier compared to Humanboy's recent tier list. I kind of feel Davh didn't go to enough detail which few units some factions are very reliant on and if they aren't good for a matchup the faction is just doomed.
And they sort of mentioned it in some point, but unit efficiency works very differently depending on if the army has to survive to fight multiple battles, or whether you are fighting an opponent with equal budget or not. War wagons and boar boy big uns especially are the kind of units that are godawful if they have to fight against an opponent that greatly outnumbers them. But in case of equal budget they trade up against their preferred target.
how the hell is khorne c tier you can literally take on endgame crisis by turn 8 and complete the campaign .It rather seems like you rank the faction based on your taste in single player
Is it multiplayer pvp battles, multiplayer pvp camaign, or I assume it is definitely not multiplayer co-op campaign?
'Sad kislev noises' I agree
Ain't no way Greenskins are anything but S tier in campaign. Waaaaagh allows you to absolutely snowball other factions.
2nd and 4th guys have some audio/mumbling issues.
15:58 I wasn't aware that this podcast has a time limit--for such a discussion, where opinions can go any number of ways, and where the criteria seemed, at best, to be semi-vague, WTF does it matter that three races took you half an hour? Like, with the right people this discussion could/should frankly go four-five
Editing
I am just glad the Dwarfs are high on the list.
Apart from being all over the place when it comes to balancing either fun or power aspects...how do you have this weird lineup? Dahv is the only multiplayer guy and you other 3 are just all over the place.
The guy with the red shirt, even though his voice is quite nice to listen to, is just wrong here. He is jaded/ bored by the game and seems to have a severe lack of game knowledge. 90% of the greenskin roster trades incredibly well against most factions...and havs done that since the waagh rework. The dwarfs just sit and shoot? After the magic dmg rework to hammerers and this new slayer and gunpowder dlc, dwarfs are very versatile. Hammerer or slayer troops do sooo much dmg, their airforce is op as hell and their lords/ heroes are very well balanced. And I don't even like them that much. This was kind of fun to listen to and agree/disagree after all. Next time, please more structure to the whole setup and it will go anlot smoother.
This would of been allot better by yourself and edited..
i think khorne is not good campaing and it's only good because skarbrane
I stopped watching this video as soon as they put Skarbrand as C tier
Just mash all the buttons
You guys are a little too generous with the ranking😅
Pretty useless tier list , if you continued to change from power level to fun level in the same tier list is not that great
Green skins are S tier in campaign they are an automatic snow ball with their cheap units high AM damage and campaign mechanics. Outside of Dahv you all aren't credible gamer's at all. Entertaining yes but y'all game suck 🤣
Lmao, the most tierlist comment ever! You just made my day!
Well, dahv is very skilled and knowledgeable. But Inwas shocked about the other guys lack of knowledge in some aspects.