Hello. So nice to see young people working in God’s vineyard. You did great. However these themes are so complicated it needs so much more time to go into details.
The Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) is a collection of individual books redacted into one whole, however these are from various competing traditions, there is no single author but various authoring groups with differing stories. The reason why Genesis 1-11 are a “miniature version” or so it seems is because Israelites were writing things from events that already happened, it was written in reverse, Adam and Eve are based on ancient Mesopotamian ancient myths with generic names. The Israelites sought to have a kingdom and king again, which is why the messianic narratives came about, and there has not been a figure that took place at any time as a king over the kingdom of any Israel at the time. The figure of Jesus is not in the text of the Hebrew Bible, he must be read into it and the entire story was made so the figure of Jesus fit the Old Testament stories and also used various statements as to apply to Jesus. The gospels are various traditions about Jesus however, each is different, though the Synoptics share the most in common. Peace.
Thanks for writing out your thoughts, we’re noticing some of the same things and coming to different conclusions. For example your conclusion that Adam and Eve are based on ancient Mesopotamian myths, I assume, is based on the fact that there are similar stories found in ancient Mesopotamian cultures. There’s a hole in that logic though, when studying history we would see that as corroborating sources, not as one culture creating a legend based on another cultures story. Meaning since neighboring cultures have similar stories, it goes to show that both stories are based on something older, and it’s entirely possible that they both come from traditions passed down from their common ancestors. That’s just one of the many possibilities. But just because neighboring cultures have similar stories doesn’t mean one culture created a legend based on the other. It more likely means that they have similar ways of communicating and used the same narratives to communicate meaning. So we can agree that the Hebrew Bible had editors who finalized it and arranged it to tell the story it tells today. So we should ask how did the Hebrew Bible’s authors (or editors) frame these stories and put them together, what was it they were trying to communicate with these narratives. And when we dig into that question, we find what I began to outline in this video, a tight nit, carefully organised unified story that points to one person who will restore all of creation, and he’s described a lot like Jesus. Remember it was finalized before Jesus, around the time of Ezra. So since the story it communicates sounds like Jesus, Jesus isn’t being read into the Hebrew Bible, he’s the intended message of the whole collection, as delivered by the final editors hundreds of years before him.
@ But again you are assuming this is the case by adapting your interpretation and reading Jesus into the text. From Genesis to Deuteronomy, Joshua, judges, Samuel, kings,… and on the entire story is about Israelites their land and exile, return, etc. we do not find in any of these pages a clear reference or indication of the story being about one person; especially not the messianic figure. Second, the Adam and Eve narratives were mostly for liturgical purposes, these are symbolic or allegorical in nature they even have generic names; they are indeed influenced by ancient Mesopotamian stories and not the other way around, I understand the way you’re framing it with earlier cultures and later cultures sharing something similar, but we repeatedly see themes like these in ancient Mesopotamian myths, the gods relation to humans who want to be like them, even the flood myths. It seems more likely that one was influenced by the other. I understand you may disagree though, which is fine but it’s important to see why such conclusions are drawn. Peace.
Very interesting video! While I far from agree with everything you said and think that the prophetic eludes to Jesus in the Old Testament are better historically understood as influences on how we understand Jesus and how that narrative formed. I really appreciated your view point and like to hear more varied positions. I am curious what makes your religious belief different than a Christian’s. Do you believe in a more Old Testament first, New Testament second philosophy? Do you not believe in the New Testament past the historical and divine nature of Jesus? What about subjects that seem perhaps somewhat eluded too in the Old Testament but are concrete to New Testament belief, mostly referring to Saran (as a demonic figure who fell from grace) and Hell (whatever that may mean to you).
Thank you for approaching this with an open mind. You asked some good and important questions, it would be too much to tackle all of in a comment. I’ll be making some videos in the near future that do touch on all these questions, here on RUclips. But if you don’t feel like waiting, I’ve already released a video on Instagram and TikTok that I think addresses the heart of what you’re asking. It’s called “Messianic or Christian”. If you have Instagram or TikTok dm me there (@thetorahguide_ on insta) and I’ll share it with you.
For me the problem with both Jews and Christians resides in the coming of a saving anointed one the Jews call a Messiah and the Christians call Jesus the Christ. The Jews say's the Messiah is still to come in the form of a physical man and the Christians say Christ Jesus will also come sometime in the future also as a physical man to set up a physical kingdom on earth. In my perspective they are both wrong. There focus is on a future event but for me the Messiah Christ event has already come when I was anointed with Messiah Christ Consciousness when I chose to cross over from a Physical Soul Mind Set into a Promised Spiritual Land that flow with Milk and Honey within my very being. By reading the bible of today in 2nd John 7-11 I am convinced there is only one true doctrine which is the doctrine of Christ Jesus living and abiding in me hear and now and not some time in the future. Along with what is written in 1st John 2:20 & 2:27 and 1st John 4:1-6 it is clear Confessing daily the fact Jesus the Christ IS COME into my flesh that reveals greater IS He who IS in me than any thing that IS in the world which is the Mystery of the Gospel foundation. Please take notice of the present tent word IS 9 times in 1st John 4:1-6. The question is Who's Flesh Is it Talking about? The answer for Me IS MY FLESH. How does the confession reveal it's self? Through LOVE and GOOD GOD Works as the only Commandment in the Spiritual Covenant as stated once again in the Gospel of John 13:34-35 & 15:17 and again as Jesus quotes the Shema in Mark 12: 28-31 with One Commandment that contains 3 parts. All Human Being are Blood Brothers and Sisters and until we all realize that Evil, Suffering, War and death will continue ON EARTH but the answer is Realizing True Heaven and Earth resides IN each Human Being when Resurrected in Christ Messiah Divine Consciousness of Love which Changes Every Thing. AMEN
The Old Testament prophet, Daniel, stated that the Messiah would come BEFORE the destruction of the Second Temple aka Herod's Temple. In Jeremiah Chapter 3, the Old Testament prophet, Jeremiah, stated that at the coming of the New Covenant, the Old Covenant Temple would be no more. The Old Testament prophets foretold of a Second Temple, not an unbiblical Third Temple. Since the Romans destroyed the Second Temple and its records, there is no way to discern who is from the tribe of Levi. Therefore, no one can enter the heretical Third Temple. The 7 Deuro Canonical books were revised by 2 Jewish sects, inorder to disuade the further conversion of Jews to Christianity.This version is known as the Apocrypha. Yet, the Septuagint Jewish sect and the Catholic Christians follow the unedited Deuro Cannonical books, now called the Septuagint texts.
I think it would be very helpful if you just used YESHUA instead of "Jesus". Yeshua was a Torah-observant, Torah-teaching Rabbi. The "Jesus" of Christianity came to "do away with the Law" and "nail it to his cross", change the Sabbath to SUN- day worship, and encouraged his disciples to eat the "abominable swine's flesh".
There’s no where in the Old Testament where it states that the sabbath can only be held on a Saturday, that was a post Babylonian exile thing. And the 613 mitzvahs were always for the Hebrews only, in exchange for the land. I have at least 3 verses like these: It’s also stated in the Torah as well that the mitzvahs are only in exchange for the land: Deuteronomy 6:1 [1] “Now this is the commandment-the statutes and the rules-that the LORD your God commanded me to teach you, that you may do them in the land to which you are going over, to possess it Lastly, the last supper isn’t cannibalism lol. Nobody regards it as literal.
Study some more, Yeshua is Iesous in Greek as written by those who actually knew Jesus. Oh Jesus is transliterated from Greek Iesous. The ceremonial laws were for the Jews pointing to Jesus, He fulfilled those so no need for them anymore. The moral laws are still the same, perhaps even stricter. Oh and under the new covenant we live in God's rest just as He is still in the seventh day, we live every day with Him. Sunday is chosen as a day to come together to celebrate Jesus's resurrection, His victory over s atan and d eath.
I am glad i found this channel ❤
I'm glad you're here!
Hello. So nice to see young people working in God’s vineyard. You did great. However these themes are so complicated it needs so much more time to go into details.
Thanks, things start to fall into place once u realize it was Jesus Himself who gave His eternal name to Moses in Exodus 3:14-15....
You are an excellent teacher!! Thank you!!
The Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) is a collection of individual books redacted into one whole, however these are from various competing traditions, there is no single author but various authoring groups with differing stories. The reason why Genesis 1-11 are a “miniature version” or so it seems is because Israelites were writing things from events that already happened, it was written in reverse, Adam and Eve are based on ancient Mesopotamian ancient myths with generic names. The Israelites sought to have a kingdom and king again, which is why the messianic narratives came about, and there has not been a figure that took place at any time as a king over the kingdom of any Israel at the time. The figure of Jesus is not in the text of the Hebrew Bible, he must be read into it and the entire story was made so the figure of Jesus fit the Old Testament stories and also used various statements as to apply to Jesus. The gospels are various traditions about Jesus however, each is different, though the Synoptics share the most in common. Peace.
Thanks for writing out your thoughts, we’re noticing some of the same things and coming to different conclusions. For example your conclusion that Adam and Eve are based on ancient Mesopotamian myths, I assume, is based on the fact that there are similar stories found in ancient Mesopotamian cultures.
There’s a hole in that logic though, when studying history we would see that as corroborating sources, not as one culture creating a legend based on another cultures story. Meaning since neighboring cultures have similar stories, it goes to show that both stories are based on something older, and it’s entirely possible that they both come from traditions passed down from their common ancestors.
That’s just one of the many possibilities. But just because neighboring cultures have similar stories doesn’t mean one culture created a legend based on the other. It more likely means that they have similar ways of communicating and used the same narratives to communicate meaning.
So we can agree that the Hebrew Bible had editors who finalized it and arranged it to tell the story it tells today. So we should ask how did the Hebrew Bible’s authors (or editors) frame these stories and put them together, what was it they were trying to communicate with these narratives. And when we dig into that question, we find what I began to outline in this video, a tight nit, carefully organised unified story that points to one person who will restore all of creation, and he’s described a lot like Jesus.
Remember it was finalized before Jesus, around the time of Ezra. So since the story it communicates sounds like Jesus, Jesus isn’t being read into the Hebrew Bible, he’s the intended message of the whole collection, as delivered by the final editors hundreds of years before him.
@ But again you are assuming this is the case by adapting your interpretation and reading Jesus into the text. From Genesis to Deuteronomy, Joshua, judges, Samuel, kings,… and on the entire story is about Israelites their land and exile, return, etc. we do not find in any of these pages a clear reference or indication of the story being about one person; especially not the messianic figure.
Second, the Adam and Eve narratives were mostly for liturgical purposes, these are symbolic or allegorical in nature they even have generic names; they are indeed influenced by ancient Mesopotamian stories and not the other way around, I understand the way you’re framing it with earlier cultures and later cultures sharing something similar, but we repeatedly see themes like these in ancient Mesopotamian myths, the gods relation to humans who want to be like them, even the flood myths. It seems more likely that one was influenced by the other. I understand you may disagree though, which is fine but it’s important to see why such conclusions are drawn. Peace.
@@bhavinmehta1490 Another thing you could add is that the Mesopotamian era predates the Jewish people by 2000 years.
Yes lots of references. Isaiah 53 for example.
Very interesting video! While I far from agree with everything you said and think that the prophetic eludes to Jesus in the Old Testament are better historically understood as influences on how we understand Jesus and how that narrative formed. I really appreciated your view point and like to hear more varied positions. I am curious what makes your religious belief different than a Christian’s. Do you believe in a more Old Testament first, New Testament second philosophy? Do you not believe in the New Testament past the historical and divine nature of Jesus? What about subjects that seem perhaps somewhat eluded too in the Old Testament but are concrete to New Testament belief, mostly referring to Saran (as a demonic figure who fell from grace) and Hell (whatever that may mean to you).
Thank you for approaching this with an open mind. You asked some good and important questions, it would be too much to tackle all of in a comment. I’ll be making some videos in the near future that do touch on all these questions, here on RUclips. But if you don’t feel like waiting, I’ve already released a video on Instagram and TikTok that I think addresses the heart of what you’re asking. It’s called “Messianic or Christian”. If you have Instagram or TikTok dm me there (@thetorahguide_ on insta) and I’ll share it with you.
For me the problem with both Jews and Christians resides in the coming of a saving anointed one the Jews call a Messiah and the Christians call Jesus the Christ. The Jews say's the Messiah is still to come in the form of a physical man and the Christians say Christ Jesus will also come sometime in the future also as a physical man to set up a physical kingdom on earth. In my perspective they are both wrong. There focus is on a future event but for me the Messiah Christ event has already come when I was anointed with Messiah Christ Consciousness when I chose to cross over from a Physical Soul Mind Set into a Promised Spiritual Land that flow with Milk and Honey within my very being. By reading the bible of today in 2nd John 7-11 I am convinced there is only one true doctrine which is the doctrine of Christ Jesus living and abiding in me hear and now and not some time in the future. Along with what is written in 1st John 2:20 & 2:27 and 1st John 4:1-6 it is clear Confessing daily the fact Jesus the Christ IS COME into my flesh that reveals greater IS He who IS in me than any thing that IS in the world which is the Mystery of the Gospel foundation. Please take notice of the present tent word IS 9 times in 1st John 4:1-6. The question is Who's Flesh Is it Talking about? The answer for Me IS MY FLESH. How does the confession reveal it's self? Through LOVE and GOOD GOD Works as the only Commandment in the Spiritual Covenant as stated once again in the Gospel of John 13:34-35 & 15:17 and again as Jesus quotes the Shema in Mark 12: 28-31 with One Commandment that contains 3 parts. All Human Being are Blood Brothers and Sisters and until we all realize that Evil, Suffering, War and death will continue ON EARTH but the answer is Realizing True Heaven and Earth resides IN each Human Being when Resurrected in Christ Messiah Divine Consciousness of Love which Changes Every Thing. AMEN
The Old Testament prophet, Daniel, stated that the Messiah would come BEFORE the destruction of the Second Temple aka Herod's Temple.
In Jeremiah Chapter 3, the Old Testament prophet, Jeremiah, stated that at the coming of the New Covenant, the Old Covenant Temple would be no more.
The Old Testament prophets foretold of a Second Temple, not an unbiblical Third Temple.
Since the Romans destroyed the Second Temple and its records, there is no way to discern who is from the tribe of Levi.
Therefore, no one can enter the heretical Third Temple.
The 7 Deuro Canonical books were revised by 2 Jewish sects, inorder to disuade the further conversion of Jews to Christianity.This version is known as the Apocrypha.
Yet, the Septuagint Jewish sect and the Catholic Christians follow the unedited Deuro Cannonical books, now called the Septuagint texts.
I think it would be very helpful if you just used YESHUA instead of "Jesus".
Yeshua was a Torah-observant, Torah-teaching Rabbi. The "Jesus" of Christianity came to "do away with the Law" and "nail it to his cross", change the Sabbath to SUN- day worship, and encouraged his disciples to eat the "abominable swine's flesh".
There’s no where in the Old Testament where it states that the sabbath can only be held on a Saturday, that was a post Babylonian exile thing.
And the 613 mitzvahs were always for the Hebrews only, in exchange for the land. I have at least 3 verses like these:
It’s also stated in the Torah as well that the mitzvahs are only in exchange for the land:
Deuteronomy 6:1
[1] “Now this is the commandment-the statutes and the rules-that the LORD your God commanded me to teach you, that you may do them in the land to which you are going over, to possess it
Lastly, the last supper isn’t cannibalism lol. Nobody regards it as literal.
Study some more, Yeshua is Iesous in Greek as written by those who actually knew Jesus. Oh Jesus is transliterated from Greek Iesous.
The ceremonial laws were for the Jews pointing to Jesus, He fulfilled those so no need for them anymore. The moral laws are still the same, perhaps even stricter.
Oh and under the new covenant we live in God's rest just as He is still in the seventh day, we live every day with Him. Sunday is chosen as a day to come together to celebrate Jesus's resurrection, His victory over s atan and d eath.
2 SAMUEL 7 VER 12 JESUS ADOPTION,AND CRUCFICTION PROPHETCY,,, ALL OTHERS IS ABOUT GOD YAHOVA HIMSELF NOT JESUS BUT GOD WORKING THRU JESUS ME