exactly. I saw another comment stating that even her family treated her like she was the cool person they just wanted validation from and that rings true
The teacher claiming he had a “loving and caring relationship” with a child who was his student. I’m disgusted this poor girl was exposed to so much toxicity at such a young age.
I would be super interested to find out if anything happened to the teacher....he should have been fired at the very least, if not a prison term. As far as I am aware, it is illegal in Australia and most definitely teacher student relationship would see a teacher fired. It is totally sick and sad to see comments on here that are apologists for these abusive men in her life, making out young women to be devious nymphs, when they are just teens and require guidance and support, not lecherous grooming abuse...even her family supported this grooming, poor kid, it is no wonder that which happened to her, whether it was the abusive partner or herself, the behaviours of all those around her lead to her destruction no matter at whose hands it is finally landed in.
@@SannaAndrew When i was in highschool, my girlfriend Jeanine, was the girl who was best at sports, got straight A’s and was the “good girl” all our parents preferred we hang out with. In our sophomore year when we were 16 yrs old we noticed the new PE teacher that was just hired and we all developed a crush on him. He was 26 years old. Long story short, we discovered “good girl” Jeannine happened to be sleeping with him. Eventually when it got around to the school officials, he was asked to resign. Not fired! They gave him the option to walk away peacefully and quietly. This was 1995 as well so.. We are now 45. Jeanine and hot PE teacher are still married after all this time with 3 kids. Of course “good girl” Jeanine would be included in the .03 % this senerio actually works out for. 🙄😂
I just had to write this. Do not tell an abused person to tie up loose ends with their abuser. Families and friends should be aware of the risk an abused person faces when they try to leave the abuser. It's the most dangerous time and the most deadly.
I started to think how many times is she going to do this... and then told myself “sis how many times did YOU do this?” The cycle of abuse if vicious and hard to get out of. Two years later and I still struggle to tell myself that wasn’t normal. My heart breaks for her.
I don't think her grandmother fully realized what was going on. But it seemed like that advice didn't matter...I think she'd have been talked back into going back to him.. by him.
it's always so weird when i listen to cases where the victim dies on my birthday. it makes me think like - how old was i turning, what was i doing, etc while this person lost their life. 😕
@@jfm14 Yes, but there is being attracted to younger women, and then there is being attracted to teenagers who haven’t even finished developing yet, who are just learning how to drive and are still in high school, whilst being a 30+ year old grown man. That’s not men just being attracted to younger women, that’s a sick and massive power imbalance that all too often coincides with abuse, and is illegal in many parts of the world (for good reason). There is no good intentioned or acceptable reason for a 30+ year old to be dating a 16 year old. At 30, if you like younger women, go for someone in their 20s. That is MORE than young enough. Any younger is a recipe for disaster and makes me seriously question your true intentions and causes me to see you as a predator. At least with someone in their 20s you’re both independent adults who have relatively the same emotional and physical development and also have the same freedoms and opportunities available to you (such as being able to be financially stable and financially independent without having to rely on anyone else). I’m 27, and I couldn’t even begin to imagine dating anyone more than a few years younger than me because any more than that would mean dating someone in a completely different stage of life. And when I think back to who I was at 16, it makes me feel physically sick to picture myself at that age with anyone 20 years old or older, let alone a full grown 30 year old man who has likely already started getting a few grey hairs and has already had over a decade of a fully established life in the adult world.
Im Sweden the age of consent is 15 but there are some caveats and one of them is power position. So a teacher a doctor a cop.... basically anyone in an authority position can't be with someone under 18.
I think all the descriptions of Phoebe as a beautiful, mysterious, magnetic person says a bit about her but also A LOT about the people surrounding her and the pedestal they put her on.
It strikes me as strange how everyone put her on this ethereal pedestal but they did not save her from the obvious storm that was coming her way. Drugs, clubbing and "dating" older men while still being in her Teens.
It sounded to me like they were trying to excuse the things that “happened to her” because she was just so pretty and couldn’t help but be the center of everyone’s attention, nah she was a normal teenage girl in situations that she should have never been in and no adult took the responsibility to guide her.
@@deniseconealfinal9471 Nah she was 24 time to stop making excuses and take responsibility for her choices. They been down that road with her many times and were probably getting tried of it!
The number of videos you make for us that are over an hour.... I don’t have the words to explain my gratitude! You are, hands down, my favorite channel on RUclips. It’s so clear how much effort you put into your work and that’s why so many of us love the heck out of you!
I agree! And I cannot believe how many other true crime channels - with essay less detail - have double or triple the following??...like why? People must be so easily satisfied 🤷
I feel like all those descriptions of her being ethereal and almost not a human being, it's just society, family, and friends, trying to make her responsible for grown-ass men's creepy behavior. She was beautiful, ofc, but she was a lost teenager with negligent parents. That made her an easy target for creepy men. And I say it as a victim of grooming. Men and women that pursue minors need to be held responsible. It's not the minor manipulating them, they (the adults) are the ones to blame. They should be the ones putting a stop to it. And if your child is constantly getting involved with older men, you need to do some introspection, because that for sure it's your fault.
Yeah I had a parent that kind of encouraged me to date adult men when I was a teenager and I am 45 now I don’t think I agree with that. She thought I would be less likely to get pregnant if the man was an actual adult instead of another teen and that’s kind of twisted looking back now.
yeah okay, but let's not make teenagers out to be these infants who do not know what they're doing, these people are allowed to vote, get a drivers licence etc
@@TheAkwarium. You have to be 18 to vote. And they charge sky-high car insurance until people are 25, for a reason. There are plenty of brain studies that prove people younger than their mid-20s don’t have fully developed judgment and impulse control.
It’s Sweden. They consider it more respectful to treat children as small adults, almost…to take them seriously, as competent individuals. I’m not saying everyone there sees teens this way, but it’s quite accepted. I don’t think it works in U.S. society, but I haven’t lived in Sweden, though I have relatives there. It didn’t have a positive outcome, in this case.
I'm seriously questioning the parenting here. Drugs and drinking at 13, clubbing, running away to what sounds like a drug den, live in older boyfriend at 16....I dont think her relationships were ever healthy to begin with so it's not surprising that she'd end up in an unstable romantic relationship later.
I agree. I try not to judge the families in these cases, but this is disturbing. How were they so comfortable with her drinking and being with a man twice her age as a young teenager??
I feel like either the parents probably grew up with these things being 'normalized' in their homes growing up and therefore also normalized for her... either that or serious denial. I wouldn't be surprised either way. It also sounds like there's more serious mental health issues going on here than your run of the mill depression and anxiety... I haven't finished it yet, but it's kind of a red flag that she was infatuated with a married man who had to report her for harassment... also her risky behavior, inappropriate romantic relationships, unbalanced moods... just sounds like she needed much more help than she got.
@@kylez8010 grandma doing lsd isn’t that weird. Experimenting with drugs in your youth is normal for a lot of people and grandma was probably right at the perfect age when lsd was so popular. The weird part was grandma brushing off pheobes drug use though. Experimentation is normal but adults still have to be adults and try to guide and correct children when they partake in dangerous activities. She probably could have saved the lsd talk for when phoebe was older and more mature.
@@reginageorge5409 but phoebe was born in 1986, you would think her grandma would be well into adulthood and married etc. before lsd became big, but she could have been a young grandma born around 1940 and in her 20s in the 60s.
Love-bombing by narcissist isolating the victim and changing her behavior to suit his demands. There are so many red flags flying in this situationship. Any time someone is in a big hurry to move in or get married it's always a red flag.
And another part of that construct is to appear as if he is the good guy. The caring guy. The best guy in the world. To appear this way to everyone else. Had me fooled for a minute.
She was not "otherworldly" "ethereal" or anything. She was a good looking LOST teenager being taken advantage of by MEN and her parents did not protector her.
To me, it sounds like they tried. Honestly. There's only so much one can do as a parent without suffocating their kid. We're getting the abridged overview of their lives. I could only imagine what kind of "what-ifs" cycle through her parents minds every day.
Yeah I do my best not to shame the parents because my parents couldn’t stop be from doing anything g when I was younger and when they suffocated me I fought harder to get away (and was successful). Plus, they had their own demons and issues they were struggling with- they’re human and imperfect like I was. They were still loving and supportive. Part of me wonders that they allowed her to do what she wanted if she was coming home and being honest because they knew the alternative would be to run away and then they wouldn’t know if she was safe or not (and it’s likely she would be in even more danger). Not saying there isn’t bad parents who need to try harder but it does sound like they tried.
I'm really creeped out by how otherworldly and alluring people described her as a teenager 😬 also the fact that her family members who knew about the drug abuse and inappropriate relationship with a teacher as a minor were ok with it
My thoughts exactly. But I love Stephanie's gentle presentation because u never know what's really up, this is def a thing for comment section though mhmmm
I feel so sorry for Phoebe. The way people talk about her beauty and how ethereal she was almost makes it sound like she wasn't a real human. And the comment about the 30 year old man being "under her thumb" when she was a teenager is just gross.
To many people, "beauty" is everything. Sad but true. (Coming from a woman who has gained and lost weight numerous times in her life and has "lost" several "friends" everytime.)
@@huntasoup I'm sorry but your comment confuses me, big time. Are you this woman who beauty means everything to? You're saying you gained and lost weight, and lost friends every time? I'm sorry, but that makes ABSOLUTELY no sense, unless they weren't friends at all that they would dump you if you gained and lost weight? Makes no sense!
@@puntinprincess7343 I'm certainly not the person to whom beauty is everything. And yes, I do realize that they weren't real friends after all but still, they acted as friends as long as I was thin enough for them (hence, beautiful enough) and then ghosted me or ditched me when I gained weight. This was just an example of how superficial people can be (and society in general), based on my own experience.
Is that a thing in the US? I think in the UK we would say quirky or alternative . Hippie chick which we would use sometimes doesn't fit Pheobe, as they tend to lifestyle differently too ( 'crunchy' etc)
@@sarahholland2600 not the same as hippie type. Films like Garden State, Breakfast at Tiffany's, and Autumn in New York are good examples. Basically women with mental health issues irl are portrayed as "quirky" and "random", and therefore desirable, or their vulnerabilities are deliberately targeted by men who desire control.
My father is an adolescent psychologist and I've never felt I was being analyzed or was in session. He was great at separating the 2 parts of his life.
She sounds like the pixie dream girl trope (I think) that’s common in movies where there’s a boy who needs to come out of his shell. She is beautiful, mysterious, different, confident and everyone wants be with her but she actually super depressed and falling apart. By the end of the movie guy learns to live and she either runs away or dies..
I agree. There really wasn’t truly anything alluring about Phoebe except that she was a very young and beautiful girl but there’s so many young and beautiful girls who are constantly accosted. There was nose spells she had on anybody. She had no aura about her. She was a young woman going through her life being herself and men thought they could take advantage of it and it looks like they did. Which is very sad and heartbreaking
@@AnotherTruth I think the "allure" of Phoebe was her vulnerability and desire to be dependent on a man. (I don't believe her friend's assessment about not being able to "own" Phoebe. I think Phoebe thrived on unstable relationships with power differential.)
Older men can be so creepy, one of my dads old friends would come up behind me (I was 21) and squeeze my sides without warning. Don’t have much to do with him since my dad passed. But this dude would do this out in public, no concern for anything. I’m casually shopping for groceries and he’s creepy lurking behind me 🤢
My dad is a child psychologist and it has always been wonderful. He taught us great communication skills from a young age. He knows us all so well. I feel lucky to have him.
You’re fortunate. My father is a psychiatrist and he gets angry and upset over the fact that I suffer from anxiety and depression. He makes me feel guilty because he says it’s like he’s at work 24/7 & that I’m “worse” than all of his patients combined....
If it was good for her she likely wouldn’t be in abusive relationships with older men. Just because your experiences were good doesn’t make it a rule. Most psychologists have there own mental problems and some get so involved in there work there family’s disappear. Bottom line you don’t have daddy issues if u have a great father. You just don’t.
I am getting weird vibes from these people calling Phoebe so beautiful and alluring. Tbh I think she looked like a kid. She was still a kid and her own father who is a shrink didn't seem to give a shit. I think they are playing up her "fragile beauty" like as an excuse for the neglect from her parents and abuse from the boyfriends she went through. It makes me upset.
I live in Melbourne and my friend was interviewed by police about this case. Everyone knows the boyfriend did It but they parents are judges and protected him . That boyfriend has abused other young women.He is a major drug dealer and the police can't get him on that either. His business is just s front for more lucrative drug dealing and to launder money. Before Phoebe died my friend told me she was thin and sick and weak. He could do anything he wanted to her.
But her psych and everyone else said she has mentioned suicide and doing risky things all the time. So-called 3 places for help and the risky behavior , drugs, alcohol, not wanting responsibility and then asking for help. Why doesn't all of that matter or in consideration? If the business is a front how are all these celebs down with it? I am not familiar with this case, just going off of everything I've heard from part 1. She seems like a tragic accident waiting to happen. I' am very interested in part 2 to since this is marketed as a mystery. I want my opinion to change ".
This is crazy, I googled this case right after and found out Ant’s other 24 year old girlfriend died mysteriously in 2019!!! Either Melbourne has a huge suicide epidemic or Ant’s a serial killer. What a gross miscarriage of justice!
@@keyanddracaryskillua6187 There are two possibilities, Phoebe got in the chute herself or somebody put her in. Either way Antony is culpable, same can be said of Baillee's death.
Literally every single person failed and spoiled her. The way everyone in her life treated her (even her family) is like that cool friend they just really wanted to like them.
I walk past this apartment building every day and can see it from my kitchen window - it's utterly chilling to count 11 floors up and see how high it actually is and just awful to think how she died in that grimy basement. Kudos to her Grandad who has worked tirelessly investigating her death
That's a horrifying thought to have to think while looking out your window at what would otherwise probably be a lovely view. A daily reminder of a life tragically cut short. RIP Phoebe. May you have found the peace which was unattainable in this life. 🌈💙
@@kristalefler3312 I've managed to kind of ignore from my window but walking past is far more disturbing; I think in the US a basement is underground but over here it generally isn't. When I walk past that building - almost every single time, and mostly unintentionally - I just have a moment of deference, knowing that only a couple of metres inside that wall, a terrible lonely death happened that has never been answered for. Respect.
@MimiParis Nice to find other Melbournians in Stephanie's audience. It's a horrifying tragedy and that particular apartment building is so haunting. I remember it coming up on the news when I was in school, and it was shocking. Thank you Stephanie for covering her story.
I have BPD and it was almost chilling to hear about this girl that had so much in common with me. :/ Drugs, alcohol, self-destructive and/or self-harming behaviour, dating older guys in our teenage years, never being alone for long, super charismatic but suffering from social anxiety...
I completely agree. I have BPD as well and she reminded me so much of myself before I found the right medications and therapy. I hope she’s at peace now and in the future the next young woman doesn’t suffer as much. We have to talk about the mental health problems people face more openly. So many (including me) act normal on the outside for the most part and inside you are all over the place.
haven’t finished the vid yet, but just wanna say thank you for calling out the predatory relationship between phoebe and her teacher. i’m so upset that no one in her life seemed to protect her from that.
I know personally depression goes hand in hand with going back to a toxic ex. When you feel horrible you just want someone to care, even if the only option is someone you know isn’t good for you
Especially if you are a teenage girl struggling with mental health issues and substance abuse problems. So many people put blame on the manic pixie girl who is "out of this world beautiful" and "captivating" to grown ass men. She was being preyed on. Constantly. And everyone around her acted like it was normal. As someone who went through something similar growing.... this case hurts me deeply.
And her psychiatrist... PSYCHIATRIST father... FFS... this beautiful ❤️ soul... I am NOT saying she didn't engage in self destructive behaviors... BUT THE FAMILY... SMFH... That chute, to me, was very symbolic of her relationship with Ant... Confining... Restrictive.. Dangerous... And, tragically, ultimately DEADLY... Rest in peace, beautiful girl...
I’m only 21 and I know I would NEVER pursue a 16 year old, especially not if they were my student! I can’t imagine being a parent and being okay with my daughter ‘dating’ a teacher. Something was wrong there with Phoebe’s parents. She grew up way too fast
I lived in Austria for awhile and I can’t tell you how common it was for teenage girls to have 30-something year old boyfriends where the entire family would support it. It’s just taken for granted that this is the normal way to do things and that of course teens are good partners for adult men. It was major culture shock for me.
@@cammey3 Usually impregnated by other teenagers though... Like it's not a show about adult men making babies with kids under 18, it's moreso kids making adult mistakes. Not a great show, I don't watch it but different.
I remember when I was 15 and there was an older neighbor who took a liking to me. At the time I was flattered that he'd be drawn to me...it made me feel like I was better than my peers, more mature, etc. Thankfully nothing ever transpired between me and the neighbor but I think that is what is "wrong" with the younger generations. We need to teach our children that predatory behavior is not flattering, it's not a compliment.
I was also “in love” with a high school teacher of mine. Though aging has put a bit of a pin in my looks, back then I was also the type of young girl who never had a problem getting attention from older men. I tried everything I could to be alone in the room with him, or to see him off campus. I never pushed myself on him or anything, but it was obvious I was flirting with him. He never tried anything. He was never even mildly inappropriate. Now looking back on it, I’m so glad that was the case and I have so much respect for him. Her actions with her teacher did not make him do anything. It’s a bit appalling that he got a pass.
I don't know.. I agree that power dynamics complicate things, I agree that we have to do what we can to prevent people from being used or abused by people with authority. But I completely disagree that age and power dynamic is a factor in 100% of these interactions. What if you had pushed yourself on him and been the kind of girl with a more forceful character. Knowing full well that you can get attention from men easily. What if you were much more about getting what you wanted and more skilled at manipulating situations. If that teacher ended up caving and giving in to temptation and lust. I'll bet my life that there are plenty of people in a position of authority so to speak. that get used and abused themselves. I've heard stories of teenage girls making up stories of teachers sexualy harrassing them which got the teacher fired and the teacher did nothing wrong. In one case the teachers life and reputation was ruined. I don't disagree that the rules are in place for a reason. I just think there aren't enough people looking out for the other side of these stories.
This story sounds so familiar. When I was 21 I was with a man who was 40, 19 years my senior. He had the same controlling demeanor, the same jealous tendencies, and the same need for me to appear like a "hot little number" on his arm. I shudder to think what could have happened to me if I stayed with him after the night he grabbed me by my hair and locked me out of the house naked with my belongings in trash bags... I went bag so so many times. Finally leaving and never speaking another word to him was the best decision I made.
Sounds like an ex of mine who is the same age as me. We aren't quite 40 yet though (next year). That is a sign of a narcissistic ahole no matter the age.
I’m already sick of Ant. She was a creative and free spirited young lady when you met her. Why try to manipulate and force those qualities out of her? People aren’t “Build a Babes” where you can make them what you want them to be
Not a parent, but my best friend is a mental health nurse, and we've been friends since we were kids. Whenever we're talking about something serious, she always asks if I'd mind her giving a professional opinion, before giving it, so I never feel like I'm being analysed unless consent is given. I think it's really important so that you are still able to feel comfortable and open. :)
Do parents/grandparents forget that their JOB is to discipline, love and protect their kids (even if it means protecting them from themselves)?!?!? Their job is NOT to be their friend, being their friend is an added bonus. Like...Grandma's over here listening to this teenager talk about her drug use and she's not doing anything about it!
I agree. I thought it was weird. I would be incredibly concerned and would speak with her parents about it. If I lose their trust, so be it. I prefer to lose trust than a life I care for. I lost a close friend 💔 this way when they told me they were suicidal. They already hurt themselves physically by cutting, and it seemed like it was getting worse (the things he was saying scared me) so I told his mom. I know that is the reason he stopped talking to me. His mom and my mom are still close friends. I've known his mom since I was a little girl. I know how much she loves her kids. She's a great mom. 👍 Edit: Correction-I told my mom about how I was worried about him, and my mom spoke to his mom.
I think it's really difficult and easy to say that, but if you have a teenager who is not prone to taking your advice and your offered support what is there to do? You can lock them in, you can punish them, but on the other hand if you do that there is the possibilty that they are gonna rebell and just leave. Some parents are way over their head with teenagers but often times prefer to have some kind of connection so their child is talking to them about taking drugs instead of doing it behind their backs, because they hope and pray they can keep them safe if they know. Being a parent is not easy, and finding the middle way between discipline and having a healthy connection and relationship is not as cut and dry as it's sounds. We don't knwo if they didn't try to suggest rehab, we don't know if they tried to keep her in some kind of control. Ignorance is not always the bliss. Protecting your kid from themselves often lefts you with a ruined relationship and stubborness from the teen himself because they don't get that in the moment.
@@weneedjusticeinamerica hey! So as someone who was and sometimes is still suicidal, I know you had good intentions. But on the other hand if someone would do this to me I would be unbelievable mad and probably would never ever tell anybody about my problems again, which is really something that should be prevented, because wanting to commit suici6e is often just a moment. Talking with someone about is helping with that. But I would never ever want my mom to know about this because almost every0ne who had this moment knows how wrong this is and I would not want my mom to feel guilty in any way, even for having those thoughts. That is a guilt I would have to shoulder and would actually be not very beneficial to my thoughts. So just think about this next time you have a friend who trusts you with that. Confronting a parent with that Info can corner the person and guilt him into actually doing it. The shame and guilt of my parents knowing it, even though I love them and trust them with all my heart, would be devastating for me. And I am not even taking about the trust issues provoked by your good intentions. I would not be able to talk about anyone ever again about feeling bad or depressed.
@@Staronat if my friend is going to try to hurt themselves, I’m telling someone. Trust issues be damned. I want to save their life. Sometimes people tell someone because they secretly or desperately want help. If you squeal, they may hate you at first, or they may hate you for it forever, but life is long(potentially) and their thoughts on it could change. Especially once you realize they only wanted to save you. As someone who is bipolar and suffers from lows that are too low and highs that are never high enough, I stick around because I know if I go I will shatter those around me. You should tell a parent or you should get help. Clearly, you have deep rooted dark thoughts. If you are troubled about giving your mother guilt then you should get help before you do something PERMANENT that will burden her with crippling guilt and despair for the rest of her life. Yes, she’ll feel guilty at first if you tell her you have these thoughts…. But it will be replaced with incredible gratitude to still have you in her life.
It sounds like she was craving structure that she never got from her family that let her run around the streets doing drugs at 13 and live with her older male teacher. That’s probably how she was drawn to this type A controlling older bf
@Debra Maki What are you talking about. She talked about the father. He was the one who picked her up when Ante kicked her out and her father's birthday was coming up.
You took the words out of my mouth re: the teacher. Makes me cringe too. I'm a lecturer and would never ever look at my students that way even the adults. It's disgusting, immoral, unethetical and there's a power dynamic. So wrong,
I dont condone it, but the age of consent in Australia is 16 in some territories its 17, in America its different. All over Europe its mainly 16 too. Youngest age of consent I know of is in Japan where its 13.
@@lololandify EXACTLY. In the case where there is a power imbalance, like a student/teacher relationship AND an age gap, it is ridiculous to say there is true agency.
@@lololandify No, they can't consent, at least that's my opinion! But the law, even her in England, says age of consent is 16. It's sooo young. And yeah, not to mention the unequal power dynamic even!
As a mental health professional, I am very curious if Phoebe had been diagnosed with a personality disorder as she is described to have had many characteristics of individuals living with Borderline Personality Disorder.
I think she may have had some type of mental disorder. I have borderline personality disorder and hearing parts her story remind me of myself prior to being diagnosed and properly medicated
@@pixiecakes1765 or anyone knowledgeable - what specifically makes you think BPD? I'm genuinely curious, not being argumentative. My understanding of BPD is limited, and I'd like to hear more.
@@screamingcats72 the overboard alcohol and drug use to mask her anxieties, the up and down mood swings, the impulsiveness, the self harm, the stubborness, the obsessions, the violence, the promiscuity, and her reaching out to different men to feel better when she was already in a relationship with one.
NO ONE will describe me as ethereal with a smile that lights up a room. And my co workers won’t call the police if I’m 1 hr late. Protected by my stiff personality and chronic tardiness! 😂
I think in a weird way that is a really big reason why I love hearing Stephanie talk. You almost forget for a second that this is real life because she is so good at telling stories
Right! I forgot this was probably a murder case! Steph said “... one year before Phoebe died...” and I gasped! Omg she died! I felt like I knew her because of the wonderful background...
i feel like no one ever really ‘saw’ phoebe. they treated her like some ethereal being that “cast spells” on men, instead of the CHILD she was who was being preyed upon.
I think if women want equality they have to stop wanting 500% credit when our lives go well, and 0% when there is a negative outcome. Women do make choices, and some of them are bad, and that’s not because women are all holy and all good and men are nefarious villains.
@@hollystiener16~Woah woah woah woah.... Do you have ANY IDEA WTF UR TALKING ABOUT?!?!? FUCK NO U DON'T & that's VERY obvious based on the statement u just made. & btw, we DON'T victim blame on this channel. She wasn't stayin with him bc she occasionally used drugs.
@@annalisegiovanni7032 did you actually listen to anything in this video about her drug use, no one is “blaming the victim” there was a lot going on in Phoebe’s life but the drugs and alcohol had a big hold over her
@@hollystiener16 I disagree that her struggles with drugs and alcohol kept her there. She was obviously unhappy in the relationship and with living there. I think if she would have gotten away, she would have been happier and possibly gotten clean. I’m just speaking from my experience. In my early 20s, I abused a wide variety of drugs and HEAVILY drank. I didn’t get a control over myself until I got myself out of the toxic situation I was living in. In hindsight, I was depressed which caused me to spiral. Once I got away and focused on myself, I got better
I am a child of a mental health worker and in my experience, she tends to turn a blind eye to problems within our family. It was more about presenting a perfect picture and keeping up appearances. I in turn got very good a putting on a show while dying inside. 🤷 I love her very much tho. We all have our flaws. She truly does her best.
I am 25 and my fiance is 30, and I can still notice the age difference sometimes. It was totally inappropriate for no one in her life to stop the relationship she had with the creepy teacher.
Im 30 and my boyfriend is 22 and we're just fine, I think it depends on your personality not necessailry the age. My sister also met her boyfriend when she was 17 and he was 25 and no one in my family had an issue with the age gap and they also understood each other really well. I also think it depends on where you're from, I'm not American and age gaps generally aren't a big deal in my country, unless you're like... 15 and below
I am a mental health professional and leave work at the door. The psychology helps when my kids are dealing with problems but I don’t talk to them as a social worker..... I heard of this case but on a superficial level. Your detail is unreal.
That was me making the request on the podcast website!!!!!!THANK YOU. I KNEW YOU WOULD LOVE IT. To prove it, I also mentioned the incredible chemistry you have with Derek. And it was a voice memo which I thought was so cool! I hid in the bathroom at work to suggest it 🤣
Thank u for covering an Australian case. As a fellow Australian it means a lot! I mainly see American and uk cases in the true crime community, so it’s great seeing youtubers branch out to other counties.
I agree - but I must say (and I know that's probably silly) I cringe every time when I hear Americans pronounce Melbourne....as MelbOrne 😂...I mean, I would too by just reading the word but as I know how we pronounce it I cannot get over it 😂
I kinda cringed at the grandmother's advice, not gonna lie. Not sure if she knew the extent of it, but I firmly believe that women should only break up with controlling, abusive men through text.
It seems like the grandmother didn’t catch that it was abusive. That advice is good advice in general, when things are “safe” but financial abuse wasn’t recognized as a thing until recently.
@@samiam2088 Yeah, I'm not judging her too harshly. To be honest, even the cup incident would be enough for me to be suspicious of him but I'm just hyper-aware of these things, I've seen too much.
And ghosting is absolutely acceptable in these kinds of relationships! Whenever I hear people complaining about being ghosted without a word, I always think there's another side to this story, people don't just up and leave unless they feel unsafe, trapped, or are afraid of their partner's reaction
I think the grandmother was worried that if Phoebe ghosted this guy, he’d start calling her and pestering her. She wanted Phoebe to tell him that it’s really over this time. She didn’t realize he was abusive
I can absolutely relate to Phoebe’s struggle with alcohol. She’s a classic binge drinker. She would have meant it when she promised Ant and herself that she would have only one or two drinks; but, with her particular body chemistry that would be impossible the moment the first few sips of alcohol were in her blood. It is a vicious cycle of hope, failure, and utter self-loathing, again and again. Ant, whether he realized it or not, was setting her up for failure. He seems to have wanted her on his arm (because she was gorgeous) without any regard whatsoever for who she actually was, or what was in her best interest. ...selfish is the word that comes to mind.
I feel bad for Phoebe. My ex husband was a bit controlling and I remember one time I accidentally ran over one of our sprinklers while pulling out of the driveway. I showed up to work crying and my coworkers looked at me like I was crazy. That kind of control sneaks up on you.
Does anyone else feel this overwhelming urge to somehow intervene and stop this from happening, as you're hearing the story? I can't really explain it but I get this feeling like there must be something I can do. But there's not. And it breaks my heart.
No. Not a bit. You can't intervene when people won't accept your help. Especially women. It sucks that we even have to talk about it, but that is called reality.
I get similar thoughts. Like I wish i could identify someone going through a situation that will end in death and be able to successfully intervene. It's a fantasy but I cna't help it. If only I had a time machine.
I do that all the time. Thankfully no one really close to me has any of these issues but while I'm watching these episodes I be screaming inside like how can those around them not see these GLARING red flags?? And I wish fervently that I could intervene and save them but like u stated, we can't so it's devastating buuuut we can't make ourselves stop watching... That's the REAL dilemma!🤷🏾🤦🏿
Idk why but I felt like I've been watching the movie instead of Stephanie tell it to me. You truly have a power in story telling! Everything was so vividly told.
Ok but I just investigated this Ant man, and apparently he had another girlfiriend after phoebe who died two years ago. It cannot be a coincidence that this man has had two 24-25 year old girlfriends die
Sadly, this man seems to be involved in the drug world. A lot of the legal community believes these girls are overdosing (whether intentionally, accidentally, or as a result of being given a hot dose by him or another in their circle) & then being disposed of. His family are in the judiciary & may be involved in the coverup
and she was a "suicide" as well, hung herself by asphyxiation in her parents kitchen but no place in kitchen to have attached the cord around her neck to hang from. I want to know about the brief marriage between the two young girlfriends that didn't last but haven't found anything on her. Bet @Stephanie does tho!
I'm a true crime/unsolved mysteries buff who just found you on RUclips, and I couldn't be more thrilled! You are so wonderfully articulate, and present the material in such a thorough, enticing manner. I especially love the passion with which you approach the subject matter. Saw a blurb of you on the Elisa Lam Special from Ron Howard.....glad for that happenstance. I look forward to binge-watching your past videos, and keeping up with your current presentations.
@@kristalefler3312 I’ve been so willing to forget myself for someone else in the past and it hurts my heart to think of all the people who have done and still do the same. I’m a recovering alcoholic and I know I’m not the same person I was when I had alcohol in me. But also my depression when from 0-60 when I drank. But I could hardly stand up, let alone get into a small space. That relationship and alcohol could have really changed her, and I can imagine waking up every morning and wanting it to change but than being hopeful through the day and hoping it would change, all to do it again.
@@bethaknee8730 Congrats on your recovery! I'm in recovery as well so it gives us a completely different understanding being that we've been there ourselves.
Yes and still so much of a stigma I’m in recovery and let me tell you addicts come in all shapes and colors from lawyers and doctors to homelessness I see all different types of people and there’s a lot of ppl in recovery you just would never suspect they had a problem
I was literally searching 20 minutes ago for a new video from you and thought she just gave us one 4 days ago, don’t be selfish. And here’s a new one!!! OMG I’m so excited!
I’m financially dependent on my husband. I didn’t think about it much at first but the thought that if things crumbled, I would be in trouble, started to scare me. Not that he would see me in a tough spot, but I’m fiercely independent. So I started working on building my credit score (I didn’t have a bad one, I just didn’t have one at all) using shopping catalogues, a credit card with £200 limit so nothing extreme, a contract phone.. all so I would have good credit to boost me if I was alone.
I was born in 88 and being a young adult in the late 10s was so hard mental health wise. It was so stigmatized and invalidated. the economy was trash, careers and jobs were limited, when I think of my early 20s I just think of drowning in depression and having to hide it from the world. Party life was literally the only fun part of that time. This story is really reminding me of those times.
Yes I was born in 87 I can tell you I don’t remember my twenties I worked in at age 16 and stayed for 14 years and developed a huge herion problem , I been in and out of recovery for years
Maybe they were afraid if they were "too strict" with Phoebe she would cut them off. I get the feeling she wouldn't have responded well to parental authority.
My number one bed time story time....I have been sick for a week in bed and I listen to your story morning till night and even sleep on your stories..wake up in the middle of the night pee and go back to where I lost the story and fall back asleep....Thank Stephanie ❤️❤️❤️
I love how you humanize Phoebe and don’t subscribe to that whole “she was an otherworldly goddess” thing. I hate when people forget that these folks are real people with real lives and struggles, and over-romanticize them.
I still feel like she was over romanticized. I'm not blaming Harlowe, She does a good job of it. but there's many sides to every story. A girl who has an affinity for older men isn't a blameless participant in those relationships. It's quite possible that she was fully in control of the teacher and he was the one on the wrong side of a power dynamic. No one really knows.
@@Shomealiens If you don't wanna have a discussion just say so. If so, avoiding a question isn't helpful. Also telling me what your eyes did in reaction to anything isn't either. Fill me in on what you think is wrong. I'm all for correcting my ideas if something is off.
I’m the daughter of a therapist, and I do not feel my mom is psychoanalyzing me or viewing me as a patient. She does try to help me when I’m not doing well, but other than that I do not feel she treats me like a patient!
Same. My Momma was a therapist. When I would hear her use her “terms of art”, I’d tell her to stop it and we’d both giggle and keep talking. I wish she were still here with me. She worked magic with my friends, though.
The way you tell these victim’s stories makes me tear up every single time. It’s perfect. You spend so much time on each case and add the details that should be added to every case, but aren’t. Like little quotes that the family member had said about the victim, how they were as a child, or something similar. You are great 💕
She sounds like a very interesting person...and I agree the thing with the teacher should never ever happened. She was a teenager, she didn't know much better. She might've THOUGHT she was mature enough. It's part of being a teenager, thinking that you're already so grown up and an adult...but you're not. That guy was the adult here and the one who should've known better. Especially when he was her teacher. Like again, teenagers tend to think they're adults and mature enough. But they are not. And anytime I hear a grown man using the words 'magnetic' or 'spellbound' when referring to having a relationship with a minor all I hear is the desperate excuses of a pedophile. In order to avoid any responsibility and reprecussions.
I would love for you to cover the Adnan Syed/ Hae Min Lee story. So much information and detail that has been skipped over in that story only you could do it justice. A friend of mine has been a detective and digital forensics expert for 15 years and said from his experience he doesn’t think Adnan did it.
As a grandmother, I would tell my grandaughter to call their boss and boyfriend and tell them it was over, not have her make a 9 hour drive to do it. Also, change their number. It's just unfortunate she went back to him. Her grandmother has no fault in that.
Right? There was no need to do it in person, not in this kind of situation. Never put yourself in the position where your abuser can suck u back in. She was clearly dependent on him, theres no way Id even suggest talking to him in person. It makes it so much harder to stand your ground.
My goodness.. I think I bought my vehicle from Natalie about a decade ago, which was around the time of this tragedy. She was such a lovely person, and during one of our conversations eluded to losing a daughter around my age at that time. I got the impression she'd lost her in a vehicle incident, as she asked me to be careful and take care of myself, I didn't want to pry but just assumed that as we were talking about the big road trip I had planned or something.. I had absolutely no idea this had happened, and in own city, surely it was on the news at the time but I am only just taking in the details here and now.. only halfway through pt#1 but felt I had to post this... and to Natalie if you ever read this, I am so very sorry for what happened. You were so kind to me and I can't imagine how difficult this time in your life was, and the time since. My thoughts are with you.
God I hate that she confided in someone about her suicidal thoughts that she had clearly been dealing with for a long time and the first thing they did was tell her it was selfish to feel that way... poor girl. She really had no true allies.
I am appalled by that psych's commentary and actions. It goes against every fibre of what someone in that profession should do or say...it is literally THEIR JOB. Should be struck off from practice IMO. Sure everyone makes mistakes but that was HARDLY a 'mistake.'
I think people telling you it’s a bad idea to solve your problems with death are true Allies. She mentioned the person who would find her to remind phoebe that the reality is this doesn’t solve problems because it actually just transfers them onto other people who you can help by not inflicting that very real suffering upon them. If the person isn’t selfish this can often incite them to see the value in seeking help and working through these problems. The idea that suicide doesn’t harm others is just a lie people who want suicide to be popular promote. It’s actually very damaging to families and communities and even strangers who witness it.
From the beginning of her life, it sounds like she might have been misdiagnosed with depression but actually suffering from bipolar disorder. Can't wait for the next installment.
I thought the same thing. Or, possibly suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder. The mood swings, dangerous behavior, dislike of herself, dating older men, etc.
It sounds like bipolar depression which is what I have and it does get misdiagnosed all the time. The periods that she had where she was able to function so well or pretend to is what makes me think this... But just my opinion...
I think it was ADHD, especially with how her birth went. Later it seems she developed BPD as well, which a common experience for people with ADHD. Especially if the ADHD goes untreated for so long.
Ant sounds like an ex of mine. My father is a reserved person, but after I broke up with my ex he said “ I knew you would always be financially taken care of, but I didn’t know if he could make you truly happy.” Dad was right, after the honeymoon phase was over, the ex started putting me down, was jealous, possessive and wanted to make me into something else. 😔💔 Thank goodness I broke up with him. 🙌❤️✨
Aloha!! We discovered your channel this weekend-thank goodness too!! We started with this three part series of Phoebe at 1030am and didn’t turn off your channel til 1030pm!! I basically “homesteaded” in one part of my living room which I never do!! Mahalo for your content, your perspective and your passion to these stories that need to be told by someone like you. Love and Aloha, your newest fans from the pacific. Aloha
@@StephanieHarlowe mahalo! We getting our dinner now to watch another night of your channel. My wife makes her morning coffee same as you do. That’s the first thing I noticed and I was hooked from there Be well. Stay safe and mahalo for all you do!! Aloha pumehana. Oh. And we are gonna check our Magellan TV too. Mahalo for that also
I really appreciate how you give a great background of who the victims were. They are the victims, and too often the focus is on the perpetrator(s). *** Thank you for your hard work Stephanie.
Amazing work as always, Stephanie! This may or may not be relevant, but it came up twice during the video, so I thought I’d share on it. The part about her being a “lightweight”- as an alcoholic in recovery myself, I know that lots of times it probably seemed to others that I had a low tolerance. “How is this b this drunk on two glasses of wine?” Bc alcoholics commonly do things like drink in bathrooms or even just walk into another room where they have alcohol hidden. Or drink a lot really fast before leaving to meet up for drinks. That and the fact that she was using drugs as well could have made her tolerance much lower. Even certain psychological meds can lower your tolerance for alcohol. Just a thought. Thanks so much for all that you do to spread awareness about these cases. Your work is incredible!
That blue looks STUNNING on you! I wanted to just speak up for 50's housewives. They were just regular women. There is a stereotype that they were "kept" or whatever, but just like any job, some loved it and some didn't. I'm very sure that a husband abusively demanding that everything be perfect, spotless, and "look like no one lived there" was NOT normal.
Holy smokes this is the earliest I've ever been. I'm so early that Stephanie hasn't had the chance to make coffee & become a sickness in my brain! Love ya gal & truly appreciate you. I binge watch you while I'm recovering from a cerebellar stroke & neck surgery. Keep doing what you're doing & thank you from the bottom of my cold, dark heart.
I thought my life was rough binging this while recovering from ankle surgery. Thanks for sharing this 🤍 I hope you start to feel more like yourself soon. I'll be thinking of you and sending you positive thoughts on your recovery.
@@sarafoster7514 aww... what a teddy bear you are 😉☺ I truly hope you start feeling better as well and are literally back on your feet in no time. Much love & light to you!
@@joeakaprolifik7735 thank you for the love. Although my last name is actually English, I'm from the Outer Banks of North Carolina, USofA. So lots of love right back from your Yankee cousin!
Sounds like she had an amazing upbringing private school education, educated professional parents, nice safe upper class area to live. She was just never taught responsibility for her actions and to blame others around her because shes too "beautiful". Basically I dont fall for the victim act even if the person dies doesnt make them a saint. Sounds like shes had lots of opportunities but chose the spoiled, drunk, depressed boohoo lifestlye
@@kirankaur7025 I'm not saying you're wrong but it's easy to say someone had an amazing upbringing when their life is seemingly "perfect". You don't know if her parents just never emotionally connected to her or something else. Emotional neglect is such a subtle way to seriously cause damage to someone's psyche AND gaslight them at the same time to make them seem "spoiled". Looking at someone's life from the outside will never get one close to the truth
My dad is a psychologist and my mum studied psychology. They recognised my mental health issues and tried to stage an intervention but respected that I wasn’t really thrilled to talk to them about it. Now seven years down the track they are both very understanding and involved in my treatment. It’s been really positive for me but I could see why that wouldn’t be the case for everyone..
Morbid is one of my all time favorite podcasts! You're so awesome to shout them out. Their coverage wrecked me and you took it even deeper! You're fabulous, Stephanie. Awesome work! 💋
I live about 10 minutes away from this hotel in St Kilda. It's so surreal hearing you cover this story and hear all the place names around me. Thank you for covering this story, Australia has some really interesting (and sad) true crime stories and they're rarely covered. I'd love to see you do Ned Kelley. The university I went to was built on/in the jail where he was hanged. Thanks for another amazing video! By the way, "Gippsland" is pronounced with the G like in "gap" or "grape". Love you!
This is the first I’ve heard of this case and I live in Australia. Thanks Steph for bringing it to my attention. I’ve watched many of your RUclips videos and am so impressed with the quality of content. It’s so refreshing when a RUclips creator obviously loves bringing true crime stories to us without the need to dramatise or gossip or spout ridiculous theories that have no basis in reality.
Ah bless you Stephanie. I’ve been procrastinating doing small chores like folding laundry, organizing my pills etc. Just what I needed, a Stephanie Harlowe video to watch while doing it. Grabbing coffee and off we go!
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Part 2 will be up on Wednesday!
Will you cover the GF trial?
Stephanie Harlowe thank you for telling us a more specific time part 2 will come out instead of “in a couple of days”
Love all your videos 💜
Thx for letting us know 💗
You're a queen!! Thank you
All i hear is that this girl/young lady was surrounded by enablers. No one tried to help her and that's so sad. Smdh
exactly. I saw another comment stating that even her family treated her like she was the cool person they just wanted validation from and that rings true
The teacher claiming he had a “loving and caring relationship” with a child who was his student. I’m disgusted this poor girl was exposed to so much toxicity at such a young age.
In most schools, teachers who get even close to “intimate” with a student are fired posthaste.
I would be super interested to find out if anything happened to the teacher....he should have been fired at the very least, if not a prison term. As far as I am aware, it is illegal in Australia and most definitely teacher student relationship would see a teacher fired. It is totally sick and sad to see comments on here that are apologists for these abusive men in her life, making out young women to be devious nymphs, when they are just teens and require guidance and support, not lecherous grooming abuse...even her family supported this grooming, poor kid, it is no wonder that which happened to her, whether it was the abusive partner or herself, the behaviours of all those around her lead to her destruction no matter at whose hands it is finally landed in.
@@SannaAndrew
When i was in highschool, my girlfriend Jeanine, was the girl who was best at sports, got straight A’s and was the “good girl” all our parents preferred we hang out with. In our sophomore year when we were 16 yrs old we noticed the new PE teacher that was just hired and we all developed a crush on him. He was 26 years old. Long story short, we discovered “good girl” Jeannine happened to be sleeping with him. Eventually when it got around to the school officials, he was asked to resign. Not fired! They gave him the option to walk away peacefully and quietly. This was 1995 as well so..
We are now 45. Jeanine and hot PE teacher are still married after all this time with 3 kids. Of course “good girl” Jeanine would be included in the .03 % this senerio actually works out for. 🙄😂
I just had to write this. Do not tell an abused person to tie up loose ends with their abuser. Families and friends should be aware of the risk an abused person faces when they try to leave the abuser. It's the most dangerous time and the most deadly.
It takes the average woman in a abusive relationship 27 times before they actually successfully attempt leaving
@@savannahguadagnino4350 I believe you mean 7 times. That is the average.
I started to think how many times is she going to do this... and then told myself “sis how many times did YOU do this?” The cycle of abuse if vicious and hard to get out of. Two years later and I still struggle to tell myself that wasn’t normal. My heart breaks for her.
@@TheReadingDuchess I'm in awe of your strength. Recognise what you deserve and accept nothing less. You are beautiful and worthy of love.
I don't think her grandmother fully realized what was going on.
But it seemed like that advice didn't matter...I think she'd have been talked back into going back to him.. by him.
it's always so weird when i listen to cases where the victim dies on my birthday. it makes me think like - how old was i turning, what was i doing, etc while this person lost their life. 😕
same!
Me too. 💔
Mines on October the 3rd and the number of victims on that day is unbelievable especially with serial killers always in October
Mine is May 9th! I read your comment before watching the video, and, agreed with your comment.
Then, I heard THE DATE on the vid, and got CHILLS. Whoa
Same!
I hate it when people equate student-teacher affairs to just "dating an older man/woman". There's a huge difference in the power dynamics.
Also why would a 30 year old be interested in a 16 year old?
@@shannonholland3185 Right?! I'm 26 and I wouldn't even date an 18 year old. 🤢
@@jfm14 Yes, but there is being attracted to younger women, and then there is being attracted to teenagers who haven’t even finished developing yet, who are just learning how to drive and are still in high school, whilst being a 30+ year old grown man. That’s not men just being attracted to younger women, that’s a sick and massive power imbalance that all too often coincides with abuse, and is illegal in many parts of the world (for good reason). There is no good intentioned or acceptable reason for a 30+ year old to be dating a 16 year old. At 30, if you like younger women, go for someone in their 20s. That is MORE than young enough. Any younger is a recipe for disaster and makes me seriously question your true intentions and causes me to see you as a predator. At least with someone in their 20s you’re both independent adults who have relatively the same emotional and physical development and also have the same freedoms and opportunities available to you (such as being able to be financially stable and financially independent without having to rely on anyone else). I’m 27, and I couldn’t even begin to imagine dating anyone more than a few years younger than me because any more than that would mean dating someone in a completely different stage of life. And when I think back to who I was at 16, it makes me feel physically sick to picture myself at that age with anyone 20 years old or older, let alone a full grown 30 year old man who has likely already started getting a few grey hairs and has already had over a decade of a fully established life in the adult world.
@@jfm14 and said he
Im Sweden the age of consent is 15 but there are some caveats and one of them is power position.
So a teacher a doctor a cop.... basically anyone in an authority position can't be with someone under 18.
I think all the descriptions of Phoebe as a beautiful, mysterious, magnetic person says a bit about her but also A LOT about the people surrounding her and the pedestal they put her on.
It strikes me as strange how everyone put her on this ethereal pedestal but they did not save her from the obvious storm that was coming her way. Drugs, clubbing and "dating" older men while still being in her Teens.
It sounded to me like they were trying to excuse the things that “happened to her” because she was just so pretty and couldn’t help but be the center of everyone’s attention, nah she was a normal teenage girl in situations that she should have never been in and no adult took the responsibility to guide her.
Agreed!
@@deniseconealfinal9471 Nah she was 24 time to stop making excuses and take responsibility for her choices. They been down that road with her many times and were probably getting tried of it!
@@kirankaur7025 yeah when she died, but the teacher “boyfriend”? The underage clubbing? How is that ok
@@deniseconealfinal9471 Exactly
The number of videos you make for us that are over an hour.... I don’t have the words to explain my gratitude! You are, hands down, my favorite channel on RUclips. It’s so clear how much effort you put into your work and that’s why so many of us love the heck out of you!
Awwww thank you so much!
I agree! And I cannot believe how many other true crime channels - with essay less detail - have double or triple the following??...like why? People must be so easily satisfied 🤷
💯💯💯
@@plusminus5483 it's because they haven't found her yet!
@Kylea Perrott I nominate you as captain of Team Harlowe
I feel like all those descriptions of her being ethereal and almost not a human being, it's just society, family, and friends, trying to make her responsible for grown-ass men's creepy behavior. She was beautiful, ofc, but she was a lost teenager with negligent parents. That made her an easy target for creepy men. And I say it as a victim of grooming.
Men and women that pursue minors need to be held responsible. It's not the minor manipulating them, they (the adults) are the ones to blame. They should be the ones putting a stop to it. And if your child is constantly getting involved with older men, you need to do some introspection, because that for sure it's your fault.
Yeah I had a parent that kind of encouraged me to date adult men when I was a teenager and I am 45 now I don’t think I agree with that. She thought I would be less likely to get pregnant if the man was an actual adult instead of another teen and that’s kind of twisted looking back now.
yeah okay, but let's not make teenagers out to be these infants who do not know what they're doing, these people are allowed to vote, get a drivers licence etc
It’s not true that all women mature to adulthood at 30 like older women wish. Some are mature as teenagers and some aren’t fit judges of life at 50.
@@TheAkwarium. You have to be 18 to vote. And they charge sky-high car insurance until people are 25, for a reason. There are plenty of brain studies that prove people younger than their mid-20s don’t have fully developed judgment and impulse control.
It’s Sweden. They consider it more respectful to treat children as small adults, almost…to take them seriously, as competent individuals. I’m not saying everyone there sees teens this way, but it’s quite accepted. I don’t think it works in U.S. society, but I haven’t lived in Sweden, though I have relatives there. It didn’t have a positive outcome, in this case.
I'm seriously questioning the parenting here. Drugs and drinking at 13, clubbing, running away to what sounds like a drug den, live in older boyfriend at 16....I dont think her relationships were ever healthy to begin with so it's not surprising that she'd end up in an unstable romantic relationship later.
I agree. I try not to judge the families in these cases, but this is disturbing. How were they so comfortable with her drinking and being with a man twice her age as a young teenager??
I feel like either the parents probably grew up with these things being 'normalized' in their homes growing up and therefore also normalized for her... either that or serious denial. I wouldn't be surprised either way. It also sounds like there's more serious mental health issues going on here than your run of the mill depression and anxiety... I haven't finished it yet, but it's kind of a red flag that she was infatuated with a married man who had to report her for harassment... also her risky behavior, inappropriate romantic relationships, unbalanced moods... just sounds like she needed much more help than she got.
@@frumtheground yeah, how weird is it that her grandmother had done lsd in the past. probably had a young mom and young grandma.
@@kylez8010 grandma doing lsd isn’t that weird. Experimenting with drugs in your youth is normal for a lot of people and grandma was probably right at the perfect age when lsd was so popular. The weird part was grandma brushing off pheobes drug use though. Experimentation is normal but adults still have to be adults and try to guide and correct children when they partake in dangerous activities. She probably could have saved the lsd talk for when phoebe was older and more mature.
@@reginageorge5409 but phoebe was born in 1986, you would think her grandma would be well into adulthood and married etc. before lsd became big, but she could have been a young grandma born around 1940 and in her 20s in the 60s.
Love-bombing by narcissist isolating the victim and changing her behavior to suit his demands. There are so many red flags flying in this situationship.
Any time someone is in a big hurry to move in or get married it's always a red flag.
---Exactly, the dude was totally abusive, mentally oppressing his gf, too bad she just didn’t split w/o telling anyone.
And another part of that construct is to appear as if he is the good guy. The caring guy. The best guy in the world. To appear this way to everyone else. Had me fooled for a minute.
My exact thoughts! He was so toxic!
Always? Asking for situational purposes
She was not "otherworldly" "ethereal" or anything. She was a good looking LOST teenager being taken advantage of by MEN and her parents did not protector her.
Well I'm glad it's all settled, then.
My thoughts exactly!!!
I agree
To me, it sounds like they tried. Honestly. There's only so much one can do as a parent without suffocating their kid. We're getting the abridged overview of their lives. I could only imagine what kind of "what-ifs" cycle through her parents minds every day.
Yeah I do my best not to shame the parents because my parents couldn’t stop be from doing anything g when I was younger and when they suffocated me I fought harder to get away (and was successful). Plus, they had their own demons and issues they were struggling with- they’re human and imperfect like I was. They were still loving and supportive. Part of me wonders that they allowed her to do what she wanted if she was coming home and being honest because they knew the alternative would be to run away and then they wouldn’t know if she was safe or not (and it’s likely she would be in even more danger). Not saying there isn’t bad parents who need to try harder but it does sound like they tried.
I'm really creeped out by how otherworldly and alluring people described her as a teenager 😬 also the fact that her family members who knew about the drug abuse and inappropriate relationship with a teacher as a minor were ok with it
The age of consent is 16 in much of Australia
@@heidih3048 but still as a parent why would you want your kid to be with someone that much older? its predatory
My thoughts exactly. But I love Stephanie's gentle presentation because u never know what's really up, this is def a thing for comment section though mhmmm
@@heidih3048 oh wow I didn't know that lol. I still find it creepy though tbh
Right ? Its really weird. Never a good idea to install this image in a person, makes them vunerable to toxic people.
I feel so sorry for Phoebe. The way people talk about her beauty and how ethereal she was almost makes it sound like she wasn't a real human. And the comment about the 30 year old man being "under her thumb" when she was a teenager is just gross.
To many people, "beauty" is everything. Sad but true. (Coming from a woman who has gained and lost weight numerous times in her life and has "lost" several "friends" everytime.)
I’m sick of hearing people speak of women’s beauty when referring to an incident etc .... Can’t we describe the persons personality etc???
@@huntasoup I'm sorry but your comment confuses me, big time. Are you this woman who beauty means everything to? You're saying you gained and lost weight, and lost friends every time? I'm sorry, but that makes ABSOLUTELY no sense, unless they weren't friends at all that they would dump you if you gained and lost weight? Makes no sense!
@@puntinprincess7343 I'm certainly not the person to whom beauty is everything. And yes, I do realize that they weren't real friends after all but still, they acted as friends as long as I was thin enough for them (hence, beautiful enough) and then ghosted me or ditched me when I gained weight. This was just an example of how superficial people can be (and society in general), based on my own experience.
@Hugy Ugy
Sure Jan. 🙄🙄🙄
This case is a sad reminder of why the "manic pixie dream girl" trope is actually a terrible one in real life and dangerous for the woman involved.
Women and young girls especially.
I was looking for a comment like this only 15 minutes in.
Yessssssss
Is that a thing in the US? I think in the UK we would say quirky or alternative . Hippie chick which we would use sometimes doesn't fit Pheobe, as they tend to lifestyle differently too ( 'crunchy' etc)
THIS!
@@sarahholland2600 not the same as hippie type. Films like Garden State, Breakfast at Tiffany's, and Autumn in New York are good examples. Basically women with mental health issues irl are portrayed as "quirky" and "random", and therefore desirable, or their vulnerabilities are deliberately targeted by men who desire control.
My father is an adolescent psychologist and I've never felt I was being analyzed or was in session. He was great at separating the 2 parts of his life.
I’m so glad!
Can I just say that you look stunning on your PF?
@@Alesanascreamokid thank you! That made my day
Phoebe’s relationship with Ant really reminds me of Judy’s in Dead to Me, he only loves the version of her that he’s trying to turn her into
Yessss!!! Omg! Yes!
Yes!
She sounds like the pixie dream girl trope (I think) that’s common in movies where there’s a boy who needs to come out of his shell. She is beautiful, mysterious, different, confident and everyone wants be with her but she actually super depressed and falling apart. By the end of the movie guy learns to live and she either runs away or dies..
god yes! i was sitting here like this reminds me of something youd see in a movie and it never ends well for the girl
@@speck2405 yeah because no matter how exciting, confident and perfect she seems, she’s actually hurting inside.
Paper Towns 😂
Manic Pixie Dream Girl
These older men hitting on teenage girls is absolutely disgusting!!!
I agree. There really wasn’t truly anything alluring about Phoebe except that she was a very young and beautiful girl but there’s so many young and beautiful girls who are constantly accosted. There was nose spells she had on anybody. She had no aura about her. She was a young woman going through her life being herself and men thought they could take advantage of it and it looks like they did. Which is very sad and heartbreaking
I agree that older men hitting on younger girls is disgusting.
They are usually immature and couldn't relate to a mature woman.
@@AnotherTruth I think the "allure" of Phoebe was her vulnerability and desire to be dependent on a man. (I don't believe her friend's assessment about not being able to "own" Phoebe. I think Phoebe thrived on unstable relationships with power differential.)
They want the control so an immature young woman is easier to manipulate. It is often a type of man that will go from young girl to another.
Older men can be so creepy, one of my dads old friends would come up behind me (I was 21) and squeeze my sides without warning. Don’t have much to do with him since my dad passed. But this dude would do this out in public, no concern for anything. I’m casually shopping for groceries and he’s creepy lurking behind me 🤢
My dad is a child psychologist and it has always been wonderful. He taught us great communication skills from a young age. He knows us all so well. I feel lucky to have him.
Learning from someone thats so close to you has to be so amazing. Sharing some of those communication skills could help so many families. ❤️
You’re fortunate. My father is a psychiatrist and he gets angry and upset over the fact that I suffer from anxiety and depression. He makes me feel guilty because he says it’s like he’s at work 24/7 & that I’m “worse” than all of his patients combined....
If it was good for her she likely wouldn’t be in abusive relationships with older men. Just because your experiences were good doesn’t make it a rule. Most psychologists have there own mental problems and some get so involved in there work there family’s disappear. Bottom line you don’t have daddy issues if u have a great father. You just don’t.
@@normalabbie I’m sorry your father takes his frustrations out on you. You are valid, you are beautiful and you are worthy 💞💞💞
@@bronminett4042 thank you 😊🙏 ❤
I am getting weird vibes from these people calling Phoebe so beautiful and alluring. Tbh I think she looked like a kid. She was still a kid and her own father who is a shrink didn't seem to give a shit. I think they are playing up her "fragile beauty" like as an excuse for the neglect from her parents and abuse from the boyfriends she went through. It makes me upset.
You hit the nail right on the head!!!! 🎯
Came here to write the same
Between her beauty, talent, willfulness and other qualities, she probably was out of control and didn't take her parents' good advice, ever.
Exactly what I was thinking. Her father failed at 2 jobs. First as a father and then as a professional shrink...
Yes, yes!! Murder is upsetting!!!!
I'm sitting here watching this with a coffee, snuggled up with my cat in a blanket. Now my day is complete. Thank you, Stephanie!
Sounds like heaven! I love my kitty!
I'm so jealous. I'm listening getting ready for work! Much rather be snuggling with my doggy 😭
I'm doing the same with my Lolia!
It’s literally the best way to watch her videos, snuggled up with a blanket and your fur baby on your lap, I’m sitting with my puppy.
Is your cat in the blanket? ;)
I live in Melbourne and my friend was interviewed by police about this case. Everyone knows the boyfriend did It but they parents are judges and protected him . That boyfriend has abused other young women.He is a major drug dealer and the police can't get him on that either. His business is just s front for more lucrative drug dealing and to launder money. Before Phoebe died my friend told me she was thin and sick and weak. He could do anything he wanted to her.
But her psych and everyone else said she has mentioned suicide and doing risky things all the time. So-called 3 places for help and the risky behavior , drugs, alcohol, not wanting responsibility and then asking for help. Why doesn't all of that matter or in consideration? If the business is a front how are all these celebs down with it? I am not familiar with this case, just going off of everything I've heard from part 1. She seems like a tragic accident waiting to happen. I' am very interested in part 2 to since this is marketed as a mystery. I want my opinion to change ".
Oh wow that's so sad. 😭
This is crazy, I googled this case right after and found out Ant’s other 24 year old girlfriend died mysteriously in 2019!!! Either Melbourne has a huge suicide epidemic or Ant’s a serial killer. What a gross miscarriage of justice!
He sounds like a controlling sociopath.
@@keyanddracaryskillua6187 There are two possibilities, Phoebe got in the chute herself or somebody put her in. Either way Antony is culpable, same can be said of Baillee's death.
Literally every single person failed and spoiled her. The way everyone in her life treated her (even her family) is like that cool friend they just really wanted to like them.
I walk past this apartment building every day and can see it from my kitchen window - it's utterly chilling to count 11 floors up and see how high it actually is and just awful to think how she died in that grimy basement. Kudos to her Grandad who has worked tirelessly investigating her death
Lorne is the real mvp
That's a horrifying thought
to have to think while looking out your window at what would otherwise probably be a lovely view. A daily reminder of a life tragically cut short. RIP Phoebe. May you have found the peace which was unattainable in this life. 🌈💙
@@kristalefler3312 I've managed to kind of ignore from my window but walking past is far more disturbing; I think in the US a basement is underground but over here it generally isn't. When I walk past that building - almost every single time, and mostly unintentionally - I just have a moment of deference, knowing that only a couple of metres inside that wall, a terrible lonely death happened that has never been answered for. Respect.
These apartment buildings are a blight on the city.
@MimiParis Nice to find other Melbournians in Stephanie's audience. It's a horrifying tragedy and that particular apartment building is so haunting. I remember it coming up on the news when I was in school, and it was shocking. Thank you Stephanie for covering her story.
I have BPD and it was almost chilling to hear about this girl that had so much in common with me. :/ Drugs, alcohol, self-destructive and/or self-harming behaviour, dating older guys in our teenage years, never being alone for long, super charismatic but suffering from social anxiety...
I have bpd too, and I completely agree with you. It’s scary how much I relate to her.
Do you guys need anyone to talk to? I suffer from depression myself but would be happy to talk if you need to
I think he’s a Narc and she’s BPD…those two often pair up into romantic relationships together.
From everything in this video I think she had ADHD and later on developed BPD, which is pretty common in people with ADHD
I completely agree. I have BPD as well and she reminded me so much of myself before I found the right medications and therapy. I hope she’s at peace now and in the future the next young woman doesn’t suffer as much. We have to talk about the mental health problems people face more openly. So many (including me) act normal on the outside for the most part and inside you are all over the place.
haven’t finished the vid yet, but just wanna say thank you for calling out the predatory relationship between phoebe and her teacher. i’m so upset that no one in her life seemed to protect her from that.
I know personally depression goes hand in hand with going back to a toxic ex. When you feel horrible you just want someone to care, even if the only option is someone you know isn’t good for you
Especially if you are a teenage girl struggling with mental health issues and substance abuse problems.
So many people put blame on the manic pixie girl who is "out of this world beautiful" and "captivating" to grown ass men.
She was being preyed on.
Constantly.
And everyone around her acted like it was normal. As someone who went through something similar growing.... this case hurts me deeply.
And her psychiatrist... PSYCHIATRIST father... FFS... this beautiful ❤️ soul... I am NOT saying she didn't engage in self destructive behaviors... BUT THE FAMILY... SMFH... That chute, to me, was very symbolic of her relationship with Ant... Confining... Restrictive.. Dangerous... And, tragically, ultimately DEADLY... Rest in peace, beautiful girl...
I’m only 21 and I know I would NEVER pursue a 16 year old, especially not if they were my student! I can’t imagine being a parent and being okay with my daughter ‘dating’ a teacher. Something was wrong there with Phoebe’s parents. She grew up way too fast
Right! I would not allow such a thing to go on! Oh and she would be grounded for that.
I lived in Austria for awhile and I can’t tell you how common it was for teenage girls to have 30-something year old boyfriends where the entire family would support it. It’s just taken for granted that this is the normal way to do things and that of course teens are good partners for adult men. It was major culture shock for me.
So weird right...considering America has its very own under age teen mom tv show
@@cammey3 see what the media is doing to America! I don't watch mainstream TV
@@cammey3 Usually impregnated by other teenagers though... Like it's not a show about adult men making babies with kids under 18, it's moreso kids making adult mistakes. Not a great show, I don't watch it but different.
I remember when I was 15 and there was an older neighbor who took a liking to me. At the time I was flattered that he'd be drawn to me...it made me feel like I was better than my peers, more mature, etc. Thankfully nothing ever transpired between me and the neighbor but I think that is what is "wrong" with the younger generations. We need to teach our children that predatory behavior is not flattering, it's not a compliment.
I was also “in love” with a high school teacher of mine. Though aging has put a bit of a pin in my looks, back then I was also the type of young girl who never had a problem getting attention from older men. I tried everything I could to be alone in the room with him, or to see him off campus. I never pushed myself on him or anything, but it was obvious I was flirting with him. He never tried anything. He was never even mildly inappropriate. Now looking back on it, I’m so glad that was the case and I have so much respect for him. Her actions with her teacher did not make him do anything. It’s a bit appalling that he got a pass.
Interesting
Right? Regardless if she thought she loved him or not, he was the adult. He should have known better...
Yes, exactly. It's the adult's job to turn it down no matter how much a child is showing interest.
I don't know.. I agree that power dynamics complicate things, I agree that we have to do what we can to prevent people from being used or abused by people with authority. But I completely disagree that age and power dynamic is a factor in 100% of these interactions. What if you had pushed yourself on him and been the kind of girl with a more forceful character. Knowing full well that you can get attention from men easily. What if you were much more about getting what you wanted and more skilled at manipulating situations. If that teacher ended up caving and giving in to temptation and lust. I'll bet my life that there are plenty of people in a position of authority so to speak. that get used and abused themselves. I've heard stories of teenage girls making up stories of teachers sexualy harrassing them which got the teacher fired and the teacher did nothing wrong. In one case the teachers life and reputation was ruined. I don't disagree that the rules are in place for a reason. I just think there aren't enough people looking out for the other side of these stories.
And you're still beautiful.
Thank you so much for the shoutout and the lovely words!!! I appreciate it with my 🖤
Of course, queen! ❤️❤️❤️❤️
This story sounds so familiar. When I was 21 I was with a man who was 40, 19 years my senior. He had the same controlling demeanor, the same jealous tendencies, and the same need for me to appear like a "hot little number" on his arm. I shudder to think what could have happened to me if I stayed with him after the night he grabbed me by my hair and locked me out of the house naked with my belongings in trash bags... I went bag so so many times. Finally leaving and never speaking another word to him was the best decision I made.
Sounds like an ex of mine who is the same age as me. We aren't quite 40 yet though (next year). That is a sign of a narcissistic ahole no matter the age.
Stephanie is always stunning. But her wearing dark blue is somehow even more stunning.
Yes, her shirt is soo pretty!
She is a jewel-toned beauty!
Definitely!
Yes that color compliments her well!
Yes!
I’m already sick of Ant. She was a creative and free spirited young lady when you met her. Why try to manipulate and force those qualities out of her? People aren’t “Build a Babes” where you can make them what you want them to be
YES!
I’m sure your father was analyzing you but didn’t show/ speak of it
And his not even good looking!!
yes, and i googled the guy, and apparently another of his girlfriends also committed suicide in 2018, i didn't looked it too much, but it's suspish af
Yes! He was narcissistic, controlling, abusive and toxic AF!
Not a parent, but my best friend is a mental health nurse, and we've been friends since we were kids. Whenever we're talking about something serious, she always asks if I'd mind her giving a professional opinion, before giving it, so I never feel like I'm being analysed unless consent is given. I think it's really important so that you are still able to feel comfortable and open. :)
He’s a multi millionaire making his gf pay him rent when she only works 3 days a week at his request?? Hell naw
Agreed.
Yeah that's pretty cheap of him.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I’m disappointed I had to look so hard for this comment.
He ain’t shit.
100% manipulative and controlling behaviour
Do parents/grandparents forget that their JOB is to discipline, love and protect their kids (even if it means protecting them from themselves)?!?!? Their job is NOT to be their friend, being their friend is an added bonus. Like...Grandma's over here listening to this teenager talk about her drug use and she's not doing anything about it!
All very odd
I agree. I thought it was weird. I would be incredibly concerned and would speak with her parents about it. If I lose their trust, so be it. I prefer to lose trust than a life I care for.
I lost a close friend 💔 this way when they told me they were suicidal. They already hurt themselves physically by cutting, and it seemed like it was getting worse (the things he was saying scared me) so I told his mom. I know that is the reason he stopped talking to me. His mom and my mom are still close friends. I've known his mom since I was a little girl. I know how much she loves her kids. She's a great mom. 👍
Edit: Correction-I told my mom about how I was worried about him, and my mom spoke to his mom.
I think it's really difficult and easy to say that, but if you have a teenager who is not prone to taking your advice and your offered support what is there to do? You can lock them in, you can punish them, but on the other hand if you do that there is the possibilty that they are gonna rebell and just leave. Some parents are way over their head with teenagers but often times prefer to have some kind of connection so their child is talking to them about taking drugs instead of doing it behind their backs, because they hope and pray they can keep them safe if they know. Being a parent is not easy, and finding the middle way between discipline and having a healthy connection and relationship is not as cut and dry as it's sounds. We don't knwo if they didn't try to suggest rehab, we don't know if they tried to keep her in some kind of control. Ignorance is not always the bliss. Protecting your kid from themselves often lefts you with a ruined relationship and stubborness from the teen himself because they don't get that in the moment.
@@weneedjusticeinamerica hey! So as someone who was and sometimes is still suicidal, I know you had good intentions. But on the other hand if someone would do this to me I would be unbelievable mad and probably would never ever tell anybody about my problems again, which is really something that should be prevented, because wanting to commit suici6e is often just a moment. Talking with someone about is helping with that. But I would never ever want my mom to know about this because almost every0ne who had this moment knows how wrong this is and I would not want my mom to feel guilty in any way, even for having those thoughts. That is a guilt I would have to shoulder and would actually be not very beneficial to my thoughts. So just think about this next time you have a friend who trusts you with that. Confronting a parent with that Info can corner the person and guilt him into actually doing it. The shame and guilt of my parents knowing it, even though I love them and trust them with all my heart, would be devastating for me. And I am not even taking about the trust issues provoked by your good intentions. I would not be able to talk about anyone ever again about feeling bad or depressed.
@@Staronat if my friend is going to try to hurt themselves, I’m telling someone.
Trust issues be damned.
I want to save their life.
Sometimes people tell someone because they secretly or desperately want help. If you squeal, they may hate you at first, or they may hate you for it forever, but life is long(potentially) and their thoughts on it could change.
Especially once you realize they only wanted to save you.
As someone who is bipolar and suffers from lows that are too low and highs that are never high enough, I stick around because I know if I go I will shatter those around me.
You should tell a parent or you should get help.
Clearly, you have deep rooted dark thoughts. If you are troubled about giving your mother guilt then you should get help before you do something PERMANENT that will burden her with crippling guilt and despair for the rest of her life.
Yes, she’ll feel guilty at first if you tell her you have these thoughts…. But it will be replaced with incredible gratitude to still have you in her life.
It sounds like she was craving structure that she never got from her family that let her run around the streets doing drugs at 13 and live with her older male teacher. That’s probably how she was drawn to this type A controlling older bf
THIS!
Her father was not mentioned? Wonder what happened to him
@@debramaki2768 he was briefly mentioned.
I mean she was also displaying symptoms of bipolar but you're still right
@Debra Maki What are you talking about. She talked about the father. He was the one who picked her up when Ante kicked her out and her father's birthday was coming up.
You took the words out of my mouth re: the teacher. Makes me cringe too. I'm a lecturer and would never ever look at my students that way even the adults. It's disgusting, immoral, unethetical and there's a power dynamic. So wrong,
I dont condone it, but the age of consent in Australia is 16 in some territories its 17, in America its different. All over Europe its mainly 16 too. Youngest age of consent I know of is in Japan where its 13.
@@snowqueen8365 But can they really "consent" at that age? Especially a teacher-student "relationship?" Let's be real!
@@lololandify EXACTLY. In the case where there is a power imbalance, like a student/teacher relationship AND an age gap, it is ridiculous to say there is true agency.
@@lololandify No, they can't consent, at least that's my opinion! But the law, even her in England, says age of consent is 16. It's sooo young. And yeah, not to mention the unequal power dynamic even!
@@Chelle8847 Yup totally agree with you!
everyone calling that literal predator teacher ”a nice man” 🤦🏽♀️ people can be SO GOOFY
riiiiight?!
It might have to do with the age of consent in Australia, 16, which is gross as hell!
@@MirandaSinistra Why not tiered? If 16, can't sleep with anyone above 18, and so forth.
@@araline2905 I'm not sure what you mean, I know in my country most states have age of consent at 18. Some vary between 17-18.
@@MirandaSinistra To be honest, I think the age 18 should be moved up to 20 here in America. I feel like anything with TEEN is to young.
As a mental health professional, I am very curious if Phoebe had been diagnosed with a personality disorder as she is described to have had many characteristics of individuals living with Borderline Personality Disorder.
Not a mental health professional but I have bpd and I was thinking the same thing based off of certain descriptions.
I think she may have had some type of mental disorder. I have borderline personality disorder and hearing parts her story remind me of myself prior to being diagnosed and properly medicated
I thought the same thing
@@pixiecakes1765 or anyone knowledgeable - what specifically makes you think BPD? I'm genuinely curious, not being argumentative. My understanding of BPD is limited, and I'd like to hear more.
@@screamingcats72 the overboard alcohol and drug use to mask her anxieties, the up and down mood swings, the impulsiveness, the self harm, the stubborness, the obsessions, the violence, the promiscuity, and her reaching out to different men to feel better when she was already in a relationship with one.
Does anyone else hear these stories and wonder how people will describe you when you're gone?
Yes me!
Always
@@emmalouise7884 every day!
All the time!
NO ONE will describe me as ethereal with a smile that lights up a room. And my co workers won’t call the police if I’m 1 hr late.
Protected by my stiff personality and chronic tardiness! 😂
Not me sitting here hoping for Phoebe to get a good ending and then remembering this is a true crime story 😭
Yeah, I wish she got a happy ending
Same here😩
I do this all the time, even ones where I know the story, I hope for a different ending!
I think in a weird way that is a really big reason why I love hearing Stephanie talk. You almost forget for a second that this is real life because she is so good at telling stories
Right! I forgot this was probably a murder case!
Steph said “... one year before Phoebe died...”
and I gasped! Omg she died! I felt like I knew her because of the wonderful background...
i feel like no one ever really ‘saw’ phoebe. they treated her like some ethereal being that “cast spells” on men, instead of the CHILD she was who was being preyed upon.
@OnitsukaTiger82 she was a child, he was a grown man. so yes, i will blame him, because it’s his fault.
so fucking tired of people defending abusers.
@OnitsukaTiger82 really? Gross 😒
@OnitsukaTiger82 she put herself in a classroom at 16 years old to get with the 30 year old teacher? Lets not victim blame.
I think if women want equality they have to stop wanting 500% credit when our lives go well, and 0% when there is a negative outcome. Women do make choices, and some of them are bad, and that’s not because women are all holy and all good and men are nefarious villains.
@@animula6908she wasn’t a woman. She was a girl.
Ugh. Even though I know how her story ends, I keep getting so frustrated every time she goes back to him. She was so close to escaping.
She wasn't, because she couldn't let go of doing drugs.
@@hollystiener16~Woah woah woah woah.... Do you have ANY IDEA WTF UR TALKING ABOUT?!?!? FUCK NO U DON'T & that's VERY obvious based on the statement u just made. & btw, we DON'T victim blame on this channel. She wasn't stayin with him bc she occasionally used drugs.
@@hollystiener16 I agree with you she had so many ppl to turn to sje just wanted the best of both worlds just because she died doesnt make her a saint
@@annalisegiovanni7032 did you actually listen to anything in this video about her drug use, no one is “blaming the victim” there was a lot going on in Phoebe’s life but the drugs and alcohol had a big hold over her
@@hollystiener16 I disagree that her struggles with drugs and alcohol kept her there. She was obviously unhappy in the relationship and with living there. I think if she would have gotten away, she would have been happier and possibly gotten clean. I’m just speaking from my experience. In my early 20s, I abused a wide variety of drugs and HEAVILY drank. I didn’t get a control over myself until I got myself out of the toxic situation I was living in. In hindsight, I was depressed which caused me to spiral. Once I got away and focused on myself, I got better
I am a child of a mental health worker and in my experience, she tends to turn a blind eye to problems within our family. It was more about presenting a perfect picture and keeping up appearances. I in turn got very good a putting on a show while dying inside. 🤷 I love her very much tho. We all have our flaws. She truly does her best.
Brandy Poling:My mom was "social worker of the year"& much admired professionally ,& was the exact same way at home!
I am 25 and my fiance is 30, and I can still notice the age difference sometimes. It was totally inappropriate for no one in her life to stop the relationship she had with the creepy teacher.
Im 30 and my boyfriend is 22 and we're just fine, I think it depends on your personality not necessailry the age. My sister also met her boyfriend when she was 17 and he was 25 and no one in my family had an issue with the age gap and they also understood each other really well. I also think it depends on where you're from, I'm not American and age gaps generally aren't a big deal in my country, unless you're like... 15 and below
@@TheAkwarium I'm 33 & my boyfriend is 27
I am a mental health professional and leave work at the door. The psychology helps when my kids are dealing with problems but I don’t talk to them as a social worker..... I heard of this case but on a superficial level. Your detail is unreal.
That was me making the request on the podcast website!!!!!!THANK YOU. I KNEW YOU WOULD LOVE IT.
To prove it, I also mentioned the incredible chemistry you have with Derek. And it was a voice memo which I thought was so cool! I hid in the bathroom at work to suggest it 🤣
YESSS!! Shhh, don't tell Derrick... 😂😂😂
Thank u for covering an Australian case. As a fellow Australian it means a lot!
I mainly see American and uk cases in the true crime community, so it’s great seeing youtubers branch out to other counties.
I agree - but I must say (and I know that's probably silly) I cringe every time when I hear Americans pronounce Melbourne....as MelbOrne 😂...I mean, I would too by just reading the word but as I know how we pronounce it I cannot get over it 😂
Agree with both of you!!!
@@plusminus5483 I was thinking the same & Epping = Ep-Ping lol. I lived in the US when I was young and one person pronounced Melbourne - Melboonie 😁🇦🇺
Samantha Melanie is Australian, and covers Australian cases
@@Salty_Peach24 I have seen her! I love her channel but how she talk can be a little hard for me to listen to. No hate on her tho!
I kinda cringed at the grandmother's advice, not gonna lie. Not sure if she knew the extent of it, but I firmly believe that women should only break up with controlling, abusive men through text.
Absolutely correct. It's a really unsafe thing for people in these kinds of relationships.
It seems like the grandmother didn’t catch that it was abusive. That advice is good advice in general, when things are “safe” but financial abuse wasn’t recognized as a thing until recently.
@@samiam2088 Yeah, I'm not judging her too harshly. To be honest, even the cup incident would be enough for me to be suspicious of him but I'm just hyper-aware of these things, I've seen too much.
And ghosting is absolutely acceptable in these kinds of relationships! Whenever I hear people complaining about being ghosted without a word, I always think there's another side to this story, people don't just up and leave unless they feel unsafe, trapped, or are afraid of their partner's reaction
I think the grandmother was worried that if Phoebe ghosted this guy, he’d start calling her and pestering her. She wanted Phoebe to tell him that it’s really over this time. She didn’t realize he was abusive
I can absolutely relate to Phoebe’s struggle with alcohol. She’s a classic binge drinker. She would have meant it when she promised Ant and herself that she would have only one or two drinks; but, with her particular body chemistry that would be impossible the moment the first few sips of alcohol were in her blood. It is a vicious cycle of hope, failure, and utter self-loathing, again and again. Ant, whether he realized it or not, was setting her up for failure. He seems to have wanted her on his arm (because she was gorgeous) without any regard whatsoever for who she actually was, or what was in her best interest. ...selfish is the word that comes to mind.
Does body chemistry affect bingedrinking? Truly curious, or any source for this I can read into? :)
@@MuzzzicRoxxx They seem to believe the AA 'alcoholism is a disease' BS.
@@sint0xicateme omfg thanks for clearing that up😅. People still believe that in 2021?! I’m not surprised tho
@@sint0xicateme Those dumbass doctors & medical professionals all across the country.They need to contact YOU instead!!
@@sint0xicateme I'm confused, so what do you think alcoholism is?
I feel bad for Phoebe. My ex husband was a bit controlling and I remember one time I accidentally ran over one of our sprinklers while pulling out of the driveway. I showed up to work crying and my coworkers looked at me like I was crazy. That kind of control sneaks up on you.
She was attracted to that unbalanced power dynamic and older wealthy man. It has its own downsides and consequences when you actually can't handle it.
I chuckled when you said "Phoebes grown ass boyfriend" 😂 like why was their....affair... sugar coated???
I laughed about that too
Does anyone else feel this overwhelming urge to somehow intervene and stop this from happening, as you're hearing the story?
I can't really explain it but I get this feeling like there must be something I can do.
But there's not. And it breaks my heart.
No. Not a bit. You can't intervene when people won't accept your help. Especially women. It sucks that we even have to talk about it, but that is called reality.
Karim Ghantous What does that have to do with your gender?
I get similar thoughts. Like I wish i could identify someone going through a situation that will end in death and be able to successfully intervene. It's a fantasy but I cna't help it. If only I had a time machine.
I do that all the time. Thankfully no one really close to me has any of these issues but while I'm watching these episodes I be screaming inside like how can those around them not see these GLARING red flags?? And I wish fervently that I could intervene and save them but like u stated, we can't so it's devastating buuuut we can't make ourselves stop watching... That's the REAL dilemma!🤷🏾🤦🏿
@@thicc_mama Not a thing.
it is so incredibly alienating to be called and seen as "mysterious" by men.
I’m not going to be surprised when one of these days you and the comment section solves a cold case.
Idk why but I felt like I've been watching the movie instead of Stephanie tell it to me. You truly have a power in story telling! Everything was so vividly told.
Nobody better at crime reporting than The Steph! Loved this video.
Thank you so much!
Ok but I just investigated this Ant man, and apparently he had another girlfiriend after phoebe who died two years ago. It cannot be a coincidence that this man has had two 24-25 year old girlfriends die
😳😳😓
Sadly, this man seems to be involved in the drug world. A lot of the legal community believes these girls are overdosing (whether intentionally, accidentally, or as a result of being given a hot dose by him or another in their circle) & then being disposed of. His family are in the judiciary & may be involved in the coverup
What is her name?
@@86crud Baillee Schneider
and she was a "suicide" as well, hung herself by asphyxiation in her parents kitchen but no place in kitchen to have attached the cord around her neck to hang from. I want to know about the brief marriage between the two young girlfriends that didn't last but haven't found anything on her. Bet @Stephanie does tho!
I'm a true crime/unsolved mysteries buff who just found you on RUclips, and I couldn't be more thrilled! You are so wonderfully articulate, and present the material in such a thorough, enticing manner. I especially love the passion with which you approach the subject matter. Saw a blurb of you on the Elisa Lam Special from Ron Howard.....glad for that happenstance. I look forward to binge-watching your past videos, and keeping up with your current presentations.
It is so awful what drugs/alcohol and/or a bad relationship can do to someone.
Absolutely. I'm seeing more judgement in some of the comments then compassion.
@@kristalefler3312 I’ve been so willing to forget myself for someone else in the past and it hurts my heart to think of all the people who have done and still do the same. I’m a recovering alcoholic and I know I’m not the same person I was when I had alcohol in me. But also my depression when from 0-60 when I drank. But I could hardly stand up, let alone get into a small space. That relationship and alcohol could have really changed her, and I can imagine waking up every morning and wanting it to change but than being hopeful through the day and hoping it would change, all to do it again.
@@bethaknee8730 Congrats on your recovery! I'm in recovery as well so it gives us a completely different understanding being that we've been there ourselves.
Yes and still so much of a stigma I’m in recovery and let me tell you addicts come in all shapes and colors from lawyers and doctors to homelessness I see all different types of people and there’s a lot of ppl in recovery you just would never suspect they had a problem
I was literally searching 20 minutes ago for a new video from you and thought she just gave us one 4 days ago, don’t be selfish. And here’s a new one!!! OMG I’m so excited!
And another one on Weds!!!
@@StephanieHarlowe you’re spoiling us! But I’m not gonna argue!
@@StephanieHarlowe oh and I tweeted at you about the description, you said 20% in the video and wrote 15% in the description
@Arnee my same thoughts lol
We are the most spoiled fan girls on the internet
As soon as you started mentioning how Phoebe started to drift away from her childhood friends I thought "o-oh, isolation - first sign of abuse"
My step dad and half brother drinks while on heavy meds. I haven't noticed them being light lite weights.
Can we just take a sec to mention how beautiful Stephanie looks? Blue is ur color, girl 💙💚💜✌
Awww thank you so much Shannon! I like to take the sweat pants off sometimes!
I agree! Blue looks good with her skin tone and hair color for sure!
Yes she is absolutely stunning 😍 that's for sure 💕😊
@@StephanieHarlowe we all know what you have underneath. Sweat pants. It is all good. They are super comfortable. :)
Agreed. I think she does well in jewel tones. I also like her in emerald green.
I've seen this case many times, but you revealed so much about her character and history that I have NEVER heard before, you are the queen of research
I’m financially dependent on my husband. I didn’t think about it much at first but the thought that if things crumbled, I would be in trouble, started to scare me. Not that he would see me in a tough spot, but I’m fiercely independent. So I started working on building my credit score (I didn’t have a bad one, I just didn’t have one at all) using shopping catalogues, a credit card with £200 limit so nothing extreme, a contract phone.. all so I would have good credit to boost me if I was alone.
I was born in 88 and being a young adult in the late 10s was so hard mental health wise. It was so stigmatized and invalidated. the economy was trash, careers and jobs were limited, when I think of my early 20s I just think of drowning in depression and having to hide it from the world. Party life was literally the only fun part of that time. This story is really reminding me of those times.
I think you’re really onto something with that statement
Yes I was born in 87 I can tell you I don’t remember my twenties I worked in at age 16 and stayed for 14 years and developed a huge herion problem , I been in and out of recovery for years
Worked in a kitchen ***
Yeah no, I'm judging her parents/grandma hard..
Its disgusting that they were okay with the underage drug use, partying and "dating" her teacher.
Oh man, these parents !!! 😭😭
They could read these posts. Please everyone watch what you post. They are grieving.
Maybe they were afraid if they were "too strict" with Phoebe she would cut them off. I get the feeling she wouldn't have responded well to parental authority.
I don't think anyone said they were okay with the drug use.
Yes Exactly!!
My number one bed time story time....I have been sick for a week in bed and I listen to your story morning till night and even sleep on your stories..wake up in the middle of the night pee and go back to where I lost the story and fall back asleep....Thank Stephanie ❤️❤️❤️
❤ ME TOO!!!!
I love how you humanize Phoebe and don’t subscribe to that whole “she was an otherworldly goddess” thing. I hate when people forget that these folks are real people with real lives and struggles, and over-romanticize them.
I still feel like she was over romanticized. I'm not blaming Harlowe, She does a good job of it. but there's many sides to every story. A girl who has an affinity for older men isn't a blameless participant in those relationships. It's quite possible that she was fully in control of the teacher and he was the one on the wrong side of a power dynamic. No one really knows.
@@kenbrunet6120 🙄
@@Shomealiens Do you know for sure?
@@kenbrunet6120 i know for sure your comment makes my eyes roll, yes
@@Shomealiens If you don't wanna have a discussion just say so. If so, avoiding a question isn't helpful. Also telling me what your eyes did in reaction to anything isn't either. Fill me in on what you think is wrong. I'm all for correcting my ideas if something is off.
I’m the daughter of a therapist, and I do not feel my mom is psychoanalyzing me or viewing me as a patient. She does try to help me when I’m not doing well, but other than that I do not feel she treats me like a patient!
Same. My Momma was a therapist. When I would hear her use her “terms of art”, I’d tell her to stop it and we’d both giggle and keep talking. I wish she were still here with me. She worked magic with my friends, though.
@@technicalout9547 Awe ❤️
The way you tell these victim’s stories makes me tear up every single time. It’s perfect. You spend so much time on each case and add the details that should be added to every case, but aren’t. Like little quotes that the family member had said about the victim, how they were as a child, or something similar. You are great 💕
She sounds like a very interesting person...and I agree the thing with the teacher should never ever happened. She was a teenager, she didn't know much better. She might've THOUGHT she was mature enough. It's part of being a teenager, thinking that you're already so grown up and an adult...but you're not. That guy was the adult here and the one who should've known better. Especially when he was her teacher. Like again, teenagers tend to think they're adults and mature enough. But they are not. And anytime I hear a grown man using the words 'magnetic' or 'spellbound' when referring to having a relationship with a minor all I hear is the desperate excuses of a pedophile. In order to avoid any responsibility and reprecussions.
I68888
”They’re stretching, they’re doing yoga, they’re being active.. good for them !”.. 😂😂😂😂❤️
I would love for you to cover the Adnan Syed/ Hae Min Lee story. So much information and detail that has been skipped over in that story only you could do it justice. A friend of mine has been a detective and digital forensics expert for 15 years and said from his experience he doesn’t think Adnan did it.
As a grandmother, I would tell my grandaughter to call their boss and boyfriend and tell them it was over, not have her make a 9 hour drive to do it. Also, change their number. It's just unfortunate she went back to him. Her grandmother has no fault in that.
Right? There was no need to do it in person, not in this kind of situation. Never put yourself in the position where your abuser can suck u back in. She was clearly dependent on him, theres no way Id even suggest talking to him in person. It makes it so much harder to stand your ground.
My goodness.. I think I bought my vehicle from Natalie about a decade ago, which was around the time of this tragedy. She was such a lovely person, and during one of our conversations eluded to losing a daughter around my age at that time. I got the impression she'd lost her in a vehicle incident, as she asked me to be careful and take care of myself, I didn't want to pry but just assumed that as we were talking about the big road trip I had planned or something.. I had absolutely no idea this had happened, and in own city, surely it was on the news at the time but I am only just taking in the details here and now.. only halfway through pt#1 but felt I had to post this... and to Natalie if you ever read this, I am so very sorry for what happened. You were so kind to me and I can't imagine how difficult this time in your life was, and the time since. My thoughts are with you.
God I hate that she confided in someone about her suicidal thoughts that she had clearly been dealing with for a long time and the first thing they did was tell her it was selfish to feel that way... poor girl. She really had no true allies.
I am appalled by that psych's commentary and actions. It goes against every fibre of what someone in that profession should do or say...it is literally THEIR JOB. Should be struck off from practice IMO. Sure everyone makes mistakes but that was HARDLY a 'mistake.'
@@PrecociousFriand exactly!
I think people telling you it’s a bad idea to solve your problems with death are true Allies. She mentioned the person who would find her to remind phoebe that the reality is this doesn’t solve problems because it actually just transfers them onto other people who you can help by not inflicting that very real suffering upon them. If the person isn’t selfish this can often incite them to see the value in seeking help and working through these problems. The idea that suicide doesn’t harm others is just a lie people who want suicide to be popular promote. It’s actually very damaging to families and communities and even strangers who witness it.
From the beginning of her life, it sounds like she might have been misdiagnosed with depression but actually suffering from bipolar disorder. Can't wait for the next installment.
I thought the same thing. Or, possibly suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder. The mood swings, dangerous behavior, dislike of herself, dating older men, etc.
Could also be adhd
It sounds like bipolar depression which is what I have and it does get misdiagnosed all the time. The periods that she had where she was able to function so well or pretend to is what makes me think this... But just my opinion...
I think it was ADHD, especially with how her birth went. Later it seems she developed BPD as well, which a common experience for people with ADHD. Especially if the ADHD goes untreated for so long.
Ant sounds like an ex of mine. My father is a reserved person, but after I broke up with my ex he said “ I knew you would always be financially taken care of, but I didn’t know if he could make you truly happy.” Dad was right, after the honeymoon phase was over, the ex started putting me down, was jealous, possessive and wanted to make me into something else. 😔💔 Thank goodness I broke up with him. 🙌❤️✨
Aloha!! We discovered your channel this weekend-thank goodness too!!
We started with this three part series of Phoebe at 1030am and didn’t turn off your channel til 1030pm!!
I basically “homesteaded” in one part of my living room which I never do!!
Mahalo for your content, your perspective and your passion to these stories that need to be told by someone like you.
Love and Aloha, your newest fans from the pacific. Aloha
Thanks you so much and welcome to the channel!
@@StephanieHarlowe mahalo!
We getting our dinner now to watch another night of your channel.
My wife makes her morning coffee same as you do. That’s the first thing I noticed and I was hooked from there
Be well. Stay safe and mahalo for all you do!!
Aloha pumehana.
Oh. And we are gonna check our Magellan TV too. Mahalo for that also
I really appreciate how you give a great background of who the victims were. They are the victims, and too often the focus is on the perpetrator(s). *** Thank you for your hard work Stephanie.
Stephanie: I would hate to have a mental health professional as a parent
Me: (looking at my toddler and growing baby) sorry y’all! 😂😂
Amazing work as always, Stephanie! This may or may not be relevant, but it came up twice during the video, so I thought I’d share on it. The part about her being a “lightweight”- as an alcoholic in recovery myself, I know that lots of times it probably seemed to others that I had a low tolerance. “How is this b this drunk on two glasses of wine?”
Bc alcoholics commonly do things like drink in bathrooms or even just walk into another room where they have alcohol hidden. Or drink a lot really fast before leaving to meet up for drinks. That and the fact that she was using drugs as well could have made her tolerance much lower. Even certain psychological meds can lower your tolerance for alcohol. Just a thought. Thanks so much for all that you do to spread awareness about these cases. Your work is incredible!
That blue looks STUNNING on you!
I wanted to just speak up for 50's housewives. They were just regular women. There is a stereotype that they were "kept" or whatever, but just like any job, some loved it and some didn't. I'm very sure that a husband abusively demanding that everything be perfect, spotless, and "look like no one lived there" was NOT normal.
Total Patrick Bateman vibes.
Holy smokes this is the earliest I've ever been. I'm so early that Stephanie hasn't had the chance to make coffee & become a sickness in my brain!
Love ya gal & truly appreciate you. I binge watch you while I'm recovering from a cerebellar stroke & neck surgery. Keep doing what you're doing & thank you from the bottom of my cold, dark heart.
I thought my life was rough binging this while recovering from ankle surgery. Thanks for sharing this 🤍 I hope you start to feel more like yourself soon. I'll be thinking of you and sending you positive thoughts on your recovery.
@@sarafoster7514 aww guys I feel for you both ,hope you feel better soon.sending you 💖and 🤗 from🇬🇧🇬🇧
Feel better soon, sending healing vibes, happy you have Stephanie for awesome entertainment!!!❤️🙏❤️
@@sarafoster7514 aww... what a teddy bear you are 😉☺ I truly hope you start feeling better as well and are literally back on your feet in no time. Much love & light to you!
@@joeakaprolifik7735 thank you for the love. Although my last name is actually English, I'm from the Outer Banks of North Carolina, USofA. So lots of love right back from your Yankee cousin!
Stephanie gave me my new favorite oxymoron: “actively sitting down”. Love it.
Phoebe was a hot mess due to parental neglect. I feel so very sorry for her and in some way her terrible end was inevitable.
it sounds like she had tons of support....2 fathers, grandmother. i think they didn't really understand her.
I agree.
Sounds like she had an amazing upbringing private school education, educated professional parents, nice safe upper class area to live. She was just never taught responsibility for her actions and to blame others around her because shes too "beautiful". Basically I dont fall for the victim act even if the person dies doesnt make them a saint. Sounds like shes had lots of opportunities but chose the spoiled, drunk, depressed boohoo lifestlye
@@kirankaur7025 She was an addict. She needed rehab. There was really nothing anyone could do.
@@kirankaur7025 I'm not saying you're wrong but it's easy to say someone had an amazing upbringing when their life is seemingly "perfect". You don't know if her parents just never emotionally connected to her or something else. Emotional neglect is such a subtle way to seriously cause damage to someone's psyche AND gaslight them at the same time to make them seem "spoiled". Looking at someone's life from the outside will never get one close to the truth
My dad is a psychologist and my mum studied psychology. They recognised my mental health issues and tried to stage an intervention but respected that I wasn’t really thrilled to talk to them about it. Now seven years down the track they are both very understanding and involved in my treatment. It’s been really positive for me but I could see why that wouldn’t be the case for everyone..
42:23 omg that is not only BAD advice, it is DEADLY advice.
I absolutely love Morbid podcast 😍 so excited that you shouted them out!
Morbid is one of my all time favorite podcasts! You're so awesome to shout them out. Their coverage wrecked me and you took it even deeper! You're fabulous, Stephanie. Awesome work! 💋
I saw this one on 60 minutes Australia. No way she was not murdered.
Exactly, watching her friend climb into the chute. It was nearly impossible sober, there’s no way she could have done that.
I live about 10 minutes away from this hotel in St Kilda. It's so surreal hearing you cover this story and hear all the place names around me. Thank you for covering this story, Australia has some really interesting (and sad) true crime stories and they're rarely covered. I'd love to see you do Ned Kelley. The university I went to was built on/in the jail where he was hanged. Thanks for another amazing video! By the way, "Gippsland" is pronounced with the G like in "gap" or "grape". Love you!
I’ve seen Pheobe’s story on many different platforms, but you have told it in such a captivating way that really shares her brightness with the world.
Me: **shuffling through W2's, wanting to pull my hair out*
Phone: **bzz-bzz** "Stephanie Harlowe posted a new video"
Me: "Oh sweet jesus, thank you!"😂
UGGGGHHHHH F that! I hate doing taxes, literally the worst
How many could you possibly have lol?
@@86crud all those app jobs like Lyft, Doordash and Instacart all have 1099's instead of W2's.... it's a damn nightmare 😳
This is the first I’ve heard of this case and I live in Australia. Thanks Steph for bringing it to my attention. I’ve watched many of your RUclips videos and am so impressed with the quality of content. It’s so refreshing when a RUclips creator obviously loves bringing true crime stories to us without the need to dramatise or gossip or spout ridiculous theories that have no basis in reality.
Ah bless you Stephanie. I’ve been procrastinating doing small chores like folding laundry, organizing my pills etc. Just what I needed, a Stephanie Harlowe video to watch while doing it. Grabbing coffee and off we go!
You can do it! I'm here for ya!
@@StephanieHarlowe lol intelligent and meaningful conversation. Yes this totally is that 😂