Is Tech Making Racing Too Dangerous? | GCN Tech Show 329
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
- This week, we discuss whether racing is getting too fast and dangerous BECAUSE of tech.
We also talk about exciting bits of hot tech, including a new high tech rain jersey, a tech debrief from Roubaix, AIRBAG shorts, comments of the week, Bike Vault and a competition where you have the chance to win a Topeak giveaway!
Participate in the Topeak competition here! 👉gcn.eu/GCNTopeakCompetitionApril
Welcome! 0:00
Is TECH to blame? 0:35
Let’s go back to the 80’s 1:01
Modern day: Now, we’ve got aero everything 3:43
How the dynamic of racing has changed 4:04
Other perspectives 5:14
So, tech has made cycling faster, but has it made cycling more dangerous? 7:50
What are the solutions? 8:46
Hot and Spicy Tech 12:11
Topeak competition! #AD 21:07
Comment of the week 22:38
Bike Vault! 27:45
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Where do you stand on this? 🚲
Let us know in the comments! 💬
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Do you think tech is making racing too dangerous? Where do you stand on this? 🤔 Let us know down below 👇
No. It's made bikes easier to ride - no downtube shifters, better brakes etc - while realistically they're only going a few mph/kmh faster, which isn't beyond the improved technical capabilities of the bikes.
I'm only up to the 8:30 mark, and there's already been 3 clips showing what the problem is; everyone's too close together for the amount of wobbling around they're doing, and unsurprisingly it's worst near a finish line which is also where most crashes happen. If the track/road needs planning better, it basically isn't wide enough in some places.
@@chrisdavidson911 they go much faster thanks to technology / aero optimisation. And it isn't the few K's per hour, it's the difference between what the human brain has learned to handle, i.e. max. speeds of 15k-20k/hr when running through the African savanna (a speed at which almost every impact, especially falling, is relatively pain-free), and either 40-45k/hr (average speeds some decades ago) and over 50k/hr (speed reached in a lot of races for longer times). The speed difference of 45-20 = 25k/hr faster than usual, and 50-20 = 30k/hr faster than usual, is 20% less awareness / anticipation for crashing hard. On top of that, riders now fully trust their bikes with wide tires and disc brakes too much: the bikes themselves are very good but the extra confidence is completely used to ride even closer together in the peloton. But the reaction time isn't any better so the margin of error is much smaller. Also don't forget that the energy of crashing isn't linear with the speed. So crashing at higher speeds is resulting in much severe damage. Also see Nicholas Roche's instagram post about this. My solution would be to make cycling less aero. Races are as much enjoyable at lower speeds.
Clearly disc brakes on road bikes are only safe if you are riding solo, or at least not in a pack with tricky roads. I mean after all, #discbrakesonroadbikes are a simple marketing gimmick to force obsolescence to profit the American Boomer's executive looting ranks who refuse to retire or pay their employees a fair or #Liveablewage . You are both right, no one wants to crash, like Chris Froome and the numerous pro-cyclists who rejected discbrakesonroadbikes. Now, riders don't have a choice because contracts. Don't sound like a choice to me #operationreinventthewheelforprofits Yes, faster races because of pneumatiques, not those rubber inserts in the carbon fiber frames or even the carbon fiber frames. It's been tires the whole time, but the mfrs have been able to manage their poor personal spending habits with their increased salaries and bonuses. Financial obesity is treatable. They should take a pill, like every other American.
Manon is looking super "dangerous"
make it less convenient to risk (like in rugby) for instance if you fall you cannot finish the race or get a week suspension... even if it is not your fault.
Week 57 of asking for a “The UCI has no jurisdiction here” T-shirt
😂 this never fails to make us chuckle!
@@gcntech stop the chuckle and get started on the shirt already ;)
@gcntech PLEASE make this shirt, and a "Groupset of the People" shirt. Obviously, there's a market for it, who cares about possible copyright infringement? I mean literally, we're talking about the lack of jurisdiction 😂
(But please make it. We'll all keep it a secret)
Week 57 of giving your comment a thumbs 👍
Week 57 of cheering for your success
I love how you talk about you couldn't stop with rim brakes. Rim brakes are brilliant when set up correctly
Yes, the folks at GCN seem to continually overlook the obvious fact that braking performance is primarily governed at the interface between the tire and the road, and not where the brakes pad hit the rim or rotor. Moreover, almost all the crashes are a result of wheel overlap or road surface conditions, and do not occur under braking....
I was about to reply with something similar 😊 well said.. Pete 🚴🏻🚴🏻👍
Back in the 60s I used Mafac centre-pulls and they were brilliant! Great stopping power and they looked so good, too. "un doigt suffit"
@@stevemawer848 I used those Mafac brakes on a Tandem in the late 70s too. All this marketing BS is starting to get to me! The only relief is knowing that all the kids are lapping it up, so I can still keep up to them!
*and in certain conditions
Nice topic. Note: Kinetic Energy (i.e. the energy to damage one's body) increases with velocity squared. This non-linearity is nonintuitive and much under appreciated
Yeah, the speed unquestionably makes things more dangerous.
When you're all riding in a bunch, then higher speed actually should lead to more crashes. The reason being that reaction times haven't changed, meaning that a crash that you could have avoided at 40 kph will be unavoidable at 45 kph.
Breaks in the 80s were not that bad because the breaking surface was on aluminum (aluminium) rims. Rim brakes were much worse on carbon rims after around 2000.
Thanks for the comment! A lot of time time it depends on what brake pads were used. Many pros we've spoke with over the years have claimed to never have a problem slowing down with rim brakes and carbon rims, whatever the weather!
Don't forget that disc brakes lend themselves to wider tyres better, decreasing stopping distances.
1971, Merckx deliberately went too fast on a descent and both he and the yellow jersey crashed, but Merckx was tougher so he got up and finished the stage, and thus won the tour.
Doesn’t matter the bike is, some people push too far
The yellow jersey was going faster than Merckx, which is why he crashed and Merckx managed to avoid him. Who pushed too far?
If they were on carbon/disc the bikes might have not got up, those bikes were heavier, but they were not weaker.
Rim brakes with allloy wheels were fine for any descent I've ever done.
But disc are better
Ditto. I have yet to match 62mph down Peak to Peak from Ward on AL rims, 23c tires and rim brakes.
Yeah, watch Nibali's Poggio descent 2018 Milan San Remo if you think you can't go down hill fast using rim brakes
There you have it problem solved. A pro cyclist speaks out about his descents all over the Alps and mountains all over the world.
Nope, I’m done I’m not tolerating this any more. I switched to discs in 2007 so knew roadies were talking out their arse to defend the fact their expensive bike didn’t have discs when this started, but it’s been getting on for 20 years. Discs are so much better it’s laughable. Yes you can get down any hill with rims… but if something unexpected happens you can stop better - in every way from power to modulation - with discs.
I actually just recently took a bike I had bought for my trainer out on the road for some fun and it had ultegra rims and.. yeah. There’s no contest.
And look at TV, the peloton aren’t crashing everytime someone brakes because they can stop better. It’s over, done, the better tech won now stop ya bitching.
Perhaps it’s time that road cycling apparel manufacturers started concentrating on more protective kit. One has to imagine that, modern Kevlar-based fabrics, should be able to offer more protection, while still allowing free movement.
Rychtarski is a builder of custom Columbus frames and forks since 1983 in Szczecin, Poland.
Sounds great! Have you got one?
I dispute that brakes weren't as good. When you were cruising in the peloton at 30 mph+ 6 inches off the wheel in front of you, Campagnolo Record sidepulls offered superior control and modulation. Even then, if you just wanted more power for less hand effort, center pulls were available. Those were essentially the same as dual pivot rim brakes in performance.
Do you think those old school rim brakes are better than modern discs? ⚙
@@gcntech Overall, of course not. However, in the old days they did consider the importance of being able to easily control being a few inches off the wheel in front of you over wildly varying speeds on crazy descents, etc. The emphasis today on sheer braking power per amount of hand force seems to be mostly targeted at recreational cyclists rather than racers -- which is fine.
@@gcntechSince disc brakes, carbon repair shops have so much work
@@gcntech If everyone is riding rim brakes than everyone has similar stopping distances. Rim brakes were less likely to lock up, were better at modulating. By the logic presented here, you could have never had a criterium race in the "old school rim brakes" would not stop as fast. Rim brakes worked just fine, for many years.
The average speed of the 2023 TDF was 1.4kph faster than the 2001, 41.431 kph vs 40.02 kph. Tour of Flanders 45 kph vs 43 kph for the same era.
❤❤❤😳😳🤓😳👏👏👏👏🔥🔥 thx!! the world needed that!!
My personal opinion, is that the peloton has gotten much younger with a lot less experience. Maybe make an age limit or a certain number of races before they can turn pro. The white jersey doesn't mean much anymore because the under 25 group is winning GC's. They are strong but less experienced.
Maybe they should have a special jersey for the old guys who are still managing to hang in it. The over 35 jersey.
About Alex's bike build, it's no different from someone in their garage, or under a shade tree, hot rodding their car. There will always be someone who's going to build something crazy. Hotrod on bicyclist.
Tech is not making racing more dangerous. It's the riders, they are continually pushing the limits, not of the bike, but of their own riding and bike handling ability. Crashes in the peloton when the road is straight and flat is by no means caused by tech. Additionally, over cooking a corner and crashing is also not caused by tech, it's simply a rider exceeding their ability. I personally think riders need to put more emphasis on bike handling skills.
I completely agree with you. None of these crashes the past few years would've been prevented by going back to steel bikes, or rim brakes, or whatever reason people want to point to. It's simple, riders are taking risk because that's where you get an edge (the biggest edge these days) over your competitor.
I couldn't agree with either of you more. Well said, both of you.
Tech will always improve and we welcome this 🙌 What can be done to improve rider safety?
@gcntech I think it was Sepp Kuss I read that said in a piece/ interview, and I'm paraphrasing here, "maybe this will cause the riders to respectfully give space..." or something to that effect.
I understand it's racing, and there is inherent danger in that. Everyone is jockying for position, looking for that space. That little bit of an edge to slip into over the others. It actions have consequences, and not just for yourself, especially in the peleton. You can control what YOU do, but you can't control what OTHERS do. And I think that's what makes this so difficult to find an answer to.
I don't have the answers. I come from a BMX racing background, and only recently (5 years ago) took up road cycling. I recently started BMX racing again, off and on, with my daughter, the last 2 years or so. I've watched road racing my whole life (I'm 50). It's an interesting subject to ponder. The opinions on it will be as varied as there are grains of sand on a beach.
But I think we can all agree there are certainly some things that can be done in racing to make it safer, but everyone will have to buy into whatever it is.
@@gcntech tbh race organisers need to make the routes safer. Asking racers not to race is just stupid - they will always push that little bit more, take that little bit more risk because their entire reason for being in the race is at stake. It’s like trying to make F1 safer by asking the drivers to slow down a bit lol. F1 got safer because the drivers essentially unionised and went on strike until tracks were changed.
So. Ollie’s bike was the only one NOT to get a ‘supernice’? Nice - or rather Supernice. 😅
Do you saw how Di2 cable cover casette? Good eye Manon!
@@LukaszMielczarek Shame that doesn't get noticed more often by the other presenter ... ;-)
One factor not mentioned here is course choices. I’ve seen a few crashes due to factors like having a pylon in the middle of the route. Poorly designed and/or poorly directed courses can cause crashes, particularly at the end of a race when riders are fatigued. I suffer from Fatigue Form Failure and I imagine even the best pro does too. And reaction time suffers as well
Brakes have never been an issue. It has always been possible to brake harder than what the tyres are capable of. If a rider is incapable of the strength to lock up the brakes then they shouldn't be on a bike. What has changed is the easier modulation of braking force with disk brakes. The UCI and race organisers are probably the reason that racing is more dangerous. Races are being run where the road surfaces aren't good enough for safe cycling.
I think the UCI point system is causing some of the risk taking problem. Most of the time it is not the top 2-3 teams taking risk, it is the lower teams that need the points to keep or to improve their point standing.
Interesting! Does that fault still not sit with the riders though?
@@gcntechYes I think so. But their are doing what they have to. I agree, you could have a finale sprint 100 meters wide and all the riders would still try to get into the same side of the road. In sprints, isn't that the idea of the 3km rule?
Rim brakes stops just fine, bought a Campy ekar and between this and my super record direct mount (carbon rim campy red pads) i cannot find any difference in modularity and power. I can say my rim brake bike is even better.
pad compounds matter, old dry pads = bad, new sticky gummy pads = firce strong braking
Looks at pre disc there wasn't half the problems with front end washout to much late braking going on!. Discs are great until they lock up!. Discs with abs is the answer for sure on super light road bikes they can over heat and become grabby.
Manon saying it wasn’t until disc brakes that we saw people starting to descend fast - forgets about Peter Sagan and Chris Froome Descend. Or even Romain Bardet at the criterium de dauphine!
Since there have been bikes there are riders that will push the limits. Do you think we should do more as a sport to make racing safer?
@@gcntech no why? i raced in the 80s, only crashed once( in cycle cross hit a tree i was fine (and the tree was ok too) got up and got on with it.).
Unfortunately safety hardly ever gets adopted without regulations requiring it. There’s lots of great solutions out there, from flexible padding to abrasion resistant stretch fabrics.
It would be interesting to do a timed comparison of typical road gear ( spandex, helmet) vs. full mountain bike padding. All on the same road bike, of course.
Aero vs anti-aero.
around 4km/hr at 40km/hr, not much speed wize but its alot watt wize, fatigue hits harder and faster
Back in the day, the “big guns” exerted more control of the peleton and were able to keep the other riders in line more. It’s more competitive with more top tier riders all vying for the win nowadays.
Back when I raced XC, we wore the same stuff the roadies wore.
There was a chart on the GCN show that showed iirc 58% of the crashes happening in the last 40 km of the race. How much of the crashes.could come down to fatigue? Not necessarily just physical, but mental as well?
Risk versus reward... a challenging topic to discuss and make sense of. If the risk only involved yourself, it's easy. But riders takes risks that involve others. This complicates the equation.
Ban the team radio. BAN THE TEAM RADIO! UCI could implement a radio for safety messages.
I think a major factor is the fact that the speed is higher but the distances in the field remained the same, effectively shortening the reaction times even more.
Unfortunately people don’t care much about safety, until they see people crippled or killed. Hopefully it doesn’t come to that. But there definitely is was to improve impact protection with gForm type protection in key areas.
One of the comments you made in a previous video was the number of days of racing per year. If you look at someone like Eddie Merckx a quick search on the internet says "In the 1970s, he averaged 180-190 days of racing per year". Promoting younger folk straight up to the pro's and with mainline racers having fewer days per year racing could be a big problem, combined with all of the other additives you said.
More days of racing, will also slow down the race.
Not to mention riders coming straight from Zwift. Oh, I mentioned it.
@@stevemawer848 I thought zwift promoted quality handling skills. 🤣
If you curtailed aero options with rules about tube shapes, wheel depths, aero socks, etc you could reduce the speed a bit. Team radios and overly detailed head units probably are very detracting as well.
Tennis made the balls bigger, baseball uses wood bats a lot is sports limit the performance with tech.
I was racing in the 80's and we didn't think twice how fast we were going without helmets it was just the norm. and as far as breaks scroll back in time and see how fast some of the docents were made on rim brakes without a problem it's how you manage the energy, I mostly ride with people on disc brakes and I'm on rim with carbon rims and still get in and out of the corners faster even in the wet.
It can often be down to the rider handling, sounds like you've got some great experience 🙌 Would you ever make the jump to disc brakes?
Back in the day rim breaks where on Alu rims which where fine in the dry & with a bit of technique still usable in the wet. If your only experience is riding carbon rims your going to have a different option of rim breaks. The danger from disk breaks is the reduce reaction times when milliseconds matter in a mid-pelton chain reaction.
Always amusing to see young people astonished at old days - no helmets on bikes, no helmets at cricket, little to no dust extraction in building work. I was an early adopter of bike helmets (Bell, yellow) and did always use a seat belt when they came in (and fitted them to cars that didn't come with them). Never smoked, nor did my parents.
The purpose of leather hairnets was only slight side impact protection. I started racing in the mid 80's. By that time, wool jerseys were out, and Lycra was in. Hardshell helmets were also starting to be used (but not in the Pro ranks).
Were you an early adopter of the hard helmets? 🪖
I bought one of the earliest Bell bike helmets in the early 80's. I recall that there were 2 models, a basic one that was rounded and looked a bit like a modern BMX helmet but white and with bigger holes, and a more expensive "sleeker" one that looked more like modern helmets. I got the cheaper one. I remember that it was so heavy and dorky looking. I don't think I wore it that often but I mostly used it to get to classes in college.
@@gcntech Yes. As kovie9162 says “heavy and dorky”.
Remember to: medicine and the ability to get medical care to an injured rider has improved ten-fold.
I still have hairnet helmets. One is a Cinelli. Gold Dust.
The problem with your discussion was that you were comparing the hairnet helmet to modern ones, which weren't actually available back in the day. The true comparison is between the hairnet helmet and a bare head (possibly with a nice cap - peak up), which is "safer"? The hairnet was really only designed to keep your skull together, not save you from massive brain injury. And back then (60s and 70s), I don't recall there being a pandemic of riders crashing and suffering head injuries.
Well said, concussion protocol should be a focus for all. Still not enough done to say stop when a rider hits the deck. May say, "I'm fine" but time may not be so kind later.
We have to make sure that riders are safe before we send them back onto the road. Do you think this isn't done to the same level across the sport?
I think it's a lot of things--the tech do allow the bikes to go faster for the same level of effort, but more importantly IMHO is 1) vastly improved training methods 2) better nutrition, 3) pros often racing fewer races in a season 4) more younger and therefore less experienced riders in the peloton. All that means the races are faster and more nervous--often from very early on. Also, riders doing fewer races means there is more pressure to perform in the ones you are targeting, so they are taking more risks to get a good result.
It seems to be a mix of loads of factors, do you think younger riders don't carry the same respect as they used to?
@@gcntech I don't think there is an epidemic of younger riders disrespecting older riders, but more a general lack of applied pro peloton racing experience that is exacerbated by the other factors, including 1) the fact that neopros are getting younger--like 18 or 19 is not uncommon now; 2) typically they are way more fit than neopros from 20 years ago, so they can keep up with and even challenge the more experienced pros; and 3) the peloton seems to get "serious" in races earlier, so they are more like being in a junior race, including the risk taking. More broadly, (and probably closer to the point you were trying to get at) cycling doesn't seem to have that sort of "guild system" of bygone days, where a journeyman cyclist had to sort of climb up the ladder in the peloton to be "allowed" to win by the powers that be (team leader, DS, grizzled old peloton bully, etc.). Teams nowadays are much more flexible in terms of determining who everyone is supporting in a particular race depending on the situation, which gives the younger riders more opportunities to take the lead and not constantly be supporting the older riders.
I feel the UCI points system is at least partially to blame, there are no 'training' races for neo-pros or the experienced pros in the early part of the season. If you start a race you are expected to get/contribute to a result for the team.
The over confidence disc brakes provide on a road bike leads to no margin for error racing. Disc brakes should be taken out of road cycling
After careful research, the safety of modern race bikes can be augmented by the simple addition of a pillion seat on the back. The rules for racing will specify that the riders Nana, or equivalent, sit in the pillion seat. Use of umbrellas and hand bags to prevent overtaking will slow the pace. And no one will take risks with Nana out back?😊
I came off the bike for the first time in 20+ years yesterday at only around 18mph and I’d forgotten how fast it seems to happen. Bit of road rash and a few bruises but luckily nothing terrible. Surprisingly 0 damage to the Lycra 👍🏻
bike glove prevent wrist fractures
How'd your bike do coming out of it? Is it okay?
Scuffed up hood and a bar tape is a mess but hilariously I think it might have bent the hanger back a little as it shifted lovely today. Thanks for asking bud
Safety improvement... harsh punishment for fans who deliberately try to create crashes!! Did you see the lady throw her hat into MVDP's wheel??
I am from the 'leather hairnet' era.
Even larger than brakes the narrow tires with very low lateral grip really limited how hard you could push a turn.
Having to reach down to shift gears limits the speed that you can go.
Cyclists still hit 100 on the descents on rim brakes. I hit 93 myself while on a training ride. Not so much slower but a bit scarier on rim brakes and 19 mm tyres!
me too!!not often now because age makes you wizer
Having Manon in for Ollie is just like getting the best tech upgrade on your favorite bike!
Can I double up thumb that?
Hahahah what's wrong with Ollie?
Oh, no… Ollie is fantastic! Ollie is Ultegra, Manon is Dura Ace. Love you Ollie! ❤❤
Manon is great! But she’s not really a techie, and Ollie absolutely brings that expertise. Now the combination of Ollie and Manon brings the tech combined with the entertainment of Manon reacting to Ollie!
the bike vault is always great fun. thanks!
I guess this could be difficult to do, but would be great to have Alex, Manon and Ollie together in the show.
Oooo the three amigos! We'll see what we can do 👀 What topic should we cover?
@@gcntech Oh, I haven't thought about a topic, honestly. I'm pretty sure everything you will come up with will be good. For me personally, interesting subjects are: 'Is there an over-splitting in bike typology?' and 'Speccing your bike towards performance vs. comfort and long travelling'. 'How much performance do we gain buying a top-spec bike vs. an entry-bike (but both from renowned producers)?' There's probably more, but that's all that came to my mind at the moment. Thank you GCNtech for doing a great job!
I think the role of "tech" and the governing body should be to keep riders safe and protect them from them selves. In a race people will do anything to win. Therefore I feel, much like down hill mountain biking, the wafer thin body suits currently worn are not fit for purpose and any new (mandated) kit should provide some better level of protection, just more padding would be a start. Lots of other sports have mandated safety improvements over the years, such as F1, which now includes FIA mandated safety cells, roll cages, etc although technically the cars don't go much faster the drivers walk away from huge crashes which would have killed them 20-30 years ago. Cycling should follow a similar approach to improve safety
Thinking about the recent crash in northern Spain. Down hill skiing has dealt with this issue for decades. Safer equipment, better nets, better clearances
I’m not so sure that racing has become significantly more dangerous than it was back in the 80’s and 90’s, but I do have a few thoughts. The things that may be making things more dangerous is that clearly, it has become faster because of aerodynamics, and disc brakes. There is also a lot more pressure on riders to perform because there is more money involved. Another thing to mention (especially in France) is the great increase in road furniture along race routes as a result of modern traffic engineering. On the flip side, riders have much much better head protection, better stopping power, and better tire adhesion with modern technology. There is also constant communication by radio in the pro peloton to keep riders aware of upcoming hazards, and everyone rides with a head unit that can give valuable information on upcoming corners in a descent. In summary, there are things that are increasing the dangers, but also a fair amount of tech that actually make riders safer.
Higher speeds are probably more related to better training and better ability to select riders, thus narrowing the distribution of physical capabilities of the riders (narrowing the peak at a higher average capability). Aerodynamics don't really make the pack faster - it just increases how long any rider can stay on the front. Brakes don't make things faster either, they make it more dangerous because it's easier to grab a handful and lock up, piling everybody else up behind you.
Rychtarski is a company doing custom frames from Szczecin Poland, mostly track frames but not only that:)
That look great 👌
I was riding back in the 80s. The roads were fine, just depended on where you were. Caliper brakes were fine, with higher end brakes being the best. Suntour Superb with Kool Stop pads being my favorite. Helmets were in their infancy. Very few people wore "hair-nets". I feel helmet technology has made the greatest strides of any safety equipment. My current bike runs Shimano Ultegra with Kool Stop pads. Stops very well.
Thanks for sharing! Do you think you'll ever make the jump to disc brakes? ⚙
Over-confidence from disc brakes supposed 'greatness' has caused many a crash and who knows . . . deaths!
Manon keeping you boys honest.... Good one.
Swift academy riders in races, now that's dangerous
What is the crankset on the Rycharski on Ma's bike vault submission? It's super sleek and lovely matt beaded finish.
It's Garbaruk crankset. Cassette it's also a Garbaruk. ;)
Too close. Reaction times are just not fast enough at today's peleton. Disc brakes mean you can stop faster but modern training maybe means riders can reach speeds beyond reaction times.
The jersey fabric should innovate and make them more tear-resistant to avoid little to no road rash during crashes
Better science of nutrition and recovery, the benefit of wind-tunnel analysis to improve rider aerodynamics, masseurs, sports cyclologists etc have contributed massively to greater efficiency and hence, greater speeds.
Imagine crashing onto the asphalt/roadside at 80 km per hour on a racing bike or crashing at 80 km per hour on a much steeper trail onto a tree or the rocky ground with a downhill bike...
11mph into a tree is 50% FATAL!! dont ever be ANYWHERE NEAR A TREE!!! THEY ARE UNFORGIVING WIDOWMAKERS
It was the same in F1 they go so fast drivers were getting killed, so they introduced rules like smaller tyres etc… now they have more rules and cars that are way safer … the bike racing industry now needs to look at the courses they are racing on and make changes here.
I’m sure they aren’t the only people doing this, but Q36.5 has this stuff they call “Grid Skin” which protects against road rash. I wonder if requiring abrasion protection in racing gear would help? Padding might be too much, but when I raced in-line skates we used to have shorts with thin side padded panels of Cordura nylon that would protect very well against impact and would slide, preventing road rash. I broke my hip in a low speed bike crash once and I wonder if a 1/2 cm of Cordura padding would have prevented it.
Also, wear freakin gloves, people! Weight is minimal: I have these super light weight Rapha minimalist gloves with extremely thin leather palm protection that will last for exactly one fall, but will save your skin…
Road surfaces were WAY better in the 80’s… in the UK anyway!
There are certain aspects of tech that make racing more dangerous. Narrow handle bars, for one, affect control in steering. The higher speeds and lower rolling resistance tires make slipping in turns/wet conditions more likely, though wider tires at lower pressures decreases this risk to an extent. I know that there are already regulations for handle bars, but maybe they could be looked into further.
Perhaps setting minimum tire widths/maximum tire pressures for racing could be looked at for decreasing crashes. It would at least provide for more traction that should benefit in cornering and in wet conditions and not take away from technologies that companies are designing, though it might encourage riders to go faster in corners negating the point of the wider tires.
The purple Canyon - looks like there's a Mirricycle rear-view mirror from 1980s due to how that grey brick sits behind the brake hood
Bike handling skills- Actual skilled riders (like Sagan ) who can wheelie - bunny hop - jump naturally- which enables them to avoid crashes with a bit of bike handling skills.
They avoid crashing into other riders or objects with their skills which then avoids the big pile ups.
Points to consider:
1. Dangerous roads should be highlighted to riders and surely someone has got some cheap hay bales to put down as barriers.
2. Does more indoor training deplete cycling skills ?
3. Do radios distract riders ?
4. Could better protective clothing be designed ?
5. Do narrow handlebars create a bunching effect ?
6. Disks allow/encourage later braking - less margin for error ?
7. Are hookless rims safe at high speeds ?
8. Put spectators further away from cyclists
9. Mandatory for lights and brake level activated brake lights
10. Limit chainring size, still keep the aero gains but make pushing downhill and on the flat less quick.
11. Accelerometers could be added to racers' bikes. When a crash is detected, a warning could be broadcast over the riders' radios.
12. Most injuries are upper body, especially clavicles, ribs, etc. Could there be a connection to clips not releasing quickly enough during a crash ?
13. Enforce wider tyres for more grip surface.
14. Limit wheel depth. Deep wheels are twitchy in the wind.
15. What about the obsession with power numbers and looking down too much ?
16. AI race layout for turns and speed will help.
17. Traffic furniture , organisers setting routes that were fine 10 to 20yr ago that are not fit for purpose , poor road infrastructure, road surface etc, disc brakes with the road craft of the Peleton unable to moderate their speed.
18. A bike is ridden with balance. The balance is in your ear. Putting people 6'4" tall (Phinney) on a 54cm bike is insanity.
19. Speed limits and radar check on a dangerous downhill sections. Disqualification if you broke it.
20. Could lack of oxygen in the blood be leading to more accidents? Perhaps athletes are arriving more depleted towards the end of the race ?!
21. ~48km/h on cobbles? For 260km? bonkers !
The legend Steve Bauer in the retro pics! 🇨🇦
Before starting bike racing, learn how to Judo Roll.
That is running and throwing yourself into a roll to land on your shoulder.
Rim brakes. Real rubber blocks on alloy rims will lock the wheels and the tubs wear through to make you crash.
The only corner you need to be at the front, is the last corner. Biding time drafting wins races, doesn't it Mr Sagan. :-)
Good luck taking that rain jacket from Castelli on or off when your hands are cold and numb! :D
The bikes are so expensive, in my opinion, for cycling sports. Why on earth would anyone pay half a home mortgage on a bike in the first place, then put it through such a grinder as the Tour de France, or Paris-Roubeax, or the Cobbles of Flanders, etc? I would be paranoid just to be in possession of an expensive bike.
pros get free bikes...
Glad the focus issue was technical. Genuinely thought I might have been having a small stroke.
Completely off topic, but reading the results of the 2024 Battle on the beach race, Pembrey, 3rd place was given to a certain Alex Paton. Is this GCN"s own Alex, or is there another Alex Paton perhaps?
It was me, good spot!
@@alexpatonGCN Amazing effort Alex, fair play to you. The course was brutal this year.
P.S. hope I haven't spoiled any future vids 😉
@@alexpatonGCN Chapeau!
The slowing chicane before Arenburg... I agree it should not have been done... it was a "nanny-state" thing to do. Let the riders choose and manage how to race. If not, where does it end??? Let's put a 10 km/hr speed limit on all segments and be super duper safe??
It was stupid.
In my opinion it is definitely the more "high risk, high reward" races that are popping up left and right every year. The more people tuning in, the more money, fame, glory, and so on. People want to be first, that is human nature. I also want to add that these racers are absolute madlads that love speed, I can't blame them.
Why not compare known race speed (selected race) over time (today vs 1980)? If faster now, than this is a critical factor even with better tech like disc brakes?
Maybe some kind of kevlar weave clothing instead of lycra they must be able to develop something!.
I think some firms have done just that - can't remember who.
It's interesting, regarding wearing protective gear, to peruse motorcycle channels. There is apparently a significant market for road rash resistant clothing - which makes keenly aware of how little there is to my Lycra bicycling outfit.
Can't give the Tech Show a Supernice this week, it's at a Jaunty Angle! ;)
It's not the tech, it's the riders
It’s both
Based on what? Can you point me to research showing as much? Can you direct me to a robust data set that shows crash rates and causes in cycling over the last few decades?
If it's "the riders", then it must be "the drivers" in F1. Why then do F1 and other motorsport organizations continue to create regulations to slow speeds to increase driver safety and reduce crash safety? Maybe they should look at drivers as some cycling fans do, i.e .with no concern for rider safety?
Was racing more boring in 2014, 2004, 1984, or 1954 when racing was slower?
Maybe data should be collected an analyzed instead or relying on baseless opinions. Maybe changes should be made based on that data, irrespective of how such changes might trigger tech lovers. Maybe, just maybe, people oughta think about rider safety first.
There sure is a lack of that consideration for rider safety going on, from the UCI all the way down to the fans.
@@robinseibel7540 the riders can slow down anytime they want. As for F1, they know that their fan base is big enough that they can force riders to slow down. Cycling doesn't have that. Roadside fans largely watch for free and only a fraction pay to watch on the internet vs people viewing highlights for free
@@robinseibel7540 Group B rallying in the 1980s........
F1 is more similar to track cycling. Road races cover a massive distance that changes every race. If F1 had three 21 day stage races covering +180 different kilometers every stage, we'd have deaths in every race
The only thing those airbag bibs will (might) protect is you hip bones. Still can break a collarbone since that is caused by sticking your arm out when falling.
Skid resistant clothing, elbow, knee, and hip pads. All of these can be made aero.
I think it just comes down to the breaking power not matching to the human reaction time anymore.
You can actually test that pretty easy by riding behind a mountain biker (or maybe don't) because they can just close the brakes without mercy and without any indication in changing their riding position or so and it shows pretty well how less time you have if the brakes get any better
So glad Manon is back.
The wrong question is being asked, instead it should be: "could tech (or regulation of it) make racing less dangerous?"
Yes disc brakes and cyclists reactions when the shit happens is a mix for more crashes now the racers are do fast .
Where can i upload to the bike vault? Is the GCN app down?
Revise UCI weight limits for bikes to a partial system weight, to include bike and clothing - should allow for increased weight of airbag shorts/jersey. Having crashed motorbikes and road bikes, fit-for-purpose tech in some situations does save bones, maybe lives.
One area missed in the factors contributing to danger includes the way riders are currently fueling... LOTS more carbs per hour, plus ketones, and the riders can ride much faster for longer.
Is that making it unsafe? Better fuelling can only be better in the long run?
I pass riders all the time on my Columbus tube bike. Now the bike is custom and all Campy. Many decades older and hilarious to pass someone on a ten thousand dollar carbon-fiber tech extravaganza.
Sounds like a dream bike! It's don to the rider at the end of the day 💪
Imagine how fast you’d be on a modern bike proven to be faster
@@dh7314 Oh please, get lost sport. All my things are paid for. Including my homes and cars. Are yours?
@@gcntech The Campy was updated a few years ago, As were the rims. As I was light when I had it built, it is SL tubing.
Are people on "their ten thousand dollars extravaganza" aware of the race going on, when you pass them?
Quite similar routes to when classic races started years ago. Now, there is a massive field of riders, narrow roads and added road furniture.
Do you think there are too many pros? 👀
No, maybe too many riding each race. The TDR initially had a handful of riders. Paris Roubaix had a handful of riders initially. In 1900, there were only 19 riders. The 1st edition only 28 finished.
It's interesting that we ask this question year after year. The simple answer is a solud "No". The issue is that riders are required to go faster every year and the results are predictable. Once you exceed the ability for your bike to adhere to the tarmac, you will go down. There are things you can do to minimize the damage, but you are going to hit the deck.
@gcntech do you know who is in the photo at time 2:55? as a Canadian, it is cool to see old national team kit. Especially on a program that isn't based in Canada.
In the late 80s I used to ride up and down Mt. Baldy in Southern California all the time… no helmet…😅😬
Jumping into the rim vs. disc brake debate.
Maintenance:
replace a cable vs refill brake fluid - rim
Replace brake pads - rim
Replace disk. Requires special tools
Aligning brakes - disc hands down.
Leaking fluid all over the floor. Disks lose
But, riding with modulation on stopping - disc by a mile
I don't agree with you on replacing pads and braking surface. I think discs edge it on pad change and changing a disc is far easier than replacing a worn-out rim.
Good video guys.😃👍
Rim brake limits on tires... I have 32mm on my caliper rim brake Trek Domane and on my touring bike with Canti's it will take a 50mm tire (frame here is the limit). With caliper brakes you have to make sure there is the drop available to lower the pads. Install the wheel to the bike before pumping up the tire!
? what are you saying?
@@lunam7249 He's saying that it's design choices limit tire size, not the fact it's rim brakes or disk brakes. - Even disk frames can only accommodate as large a tire as they are designed for. You can get rim frames with huge clearances and large calipers.
Easy solution for making rim brakes fit a wider fimt tire, expand the arc of the legs that hold the pads, make it wider to accommodate the wider tire...or maybe the gear companies want to sell you the more expensive stuff?
Tech is just one element that makes you faster. Faster is always going to be more dangerous. Riders also need to be more responsible.
The only reason that I would wear a "protective" bib short, was if it could protect against losing great amounts of skin on your hips, that happens in most crashes.
it already exists..assos xc and castelli protekt...
That's a pretty good reason to wear protective gear! Do you think there is a market for more road bike protection? 🪖
I'm surprised that the pros don't push for improvements in clothing, the sight of Primož's road rash, makes me shiver. I believe that there is a market to tap into, especially if adapted by the pros, just needs some innovation