(16 : 9) I DRASTICALLY prefer the Phi Grid (Golden Ratio) (2 : 35 : 1) I prefer the rule of thirds SLIGHTLY This was kind of mind blowing. The Rule of Third shots in 16:9 looked like some random with a DSLR, but those same shots in Phi Grid looked superbly cinematic. I wan't expecting to feel strongly either way, but DAMN! What's interesting... is how in the wider 2:35:1 the magic was lost, I suppose you can only stretch the Golden Ratio so far before it breaks, I didn't feel the magic in 2:35:1 with the rule of thirds as i had with the golden ratio in 16:9, however it is worth noting that it performed better than the golden ratio by small but significant margin in 2:35:1. In short... at 16:9 the golden ratio doesn't stretch enough for it to lose it's "magic" or "break" Thanks for making this.
Ashur George good input. I agree with you for most of it. Always some shots that don't work for either phi or thirds. But yes the 16:9 phi ones look better
Can I chime in? I've been studying (practicing) composition for quite a while now, and do agree with your observations. It all comes down to negative space, as the golden ration tends to condense the composition. Thanks for sharing.
It's because wide locations look better when they're... wide, it's achieved with a smaller Focal Length. Comparing exactly the same recordings here ignores the possibility of changing the Focal Length.
For me, the Phi Grid feels a lot more cinematic while the rule of thirds is more natural and realistic. I guess the point is to use each one to best convey the feeling you are trying to capture.
yep, that seems to match what other people have said (phi grid more cinematic/aesthetically pleasing) which shows it is a fundamental mathematical principle, (to some degree) and not just purely subjective. which is cool. :)
as you said, rule of thirds on a landscape or minimal shot with nothing to focus feels like it tries to make you focus onto something but not sure what. at the same time phi grid does absolutely stunning job with such scenes, it almost makes me zone out while watching the scene in kinda good way.
Thank You for making this beautiful video. I have seen lots of video about the rule of thirds and a mention about the golden ratio in few videos but no one has explained the golden ratio and the aspect ratio in so much detail and easy to understand. This video surely shows that you have done a lot of research on this subject. Thank You biscuitsalive!
I really enjoyed this video as you went over the different ways of looking at a frame. I definitely love the golden ratio I've fallen in love with it. I can see the difference. I feel like if you tell the movie through the center rectangle that's the most important thing to do and then everything else accompanies the center . The shot with the two people at the table at two different ends of it. Even though the sinner shot would be just an empty table, that is actually the best way to tell that story in that frame. Golden ratio tells stories.
Really excellent video, seemed for me that the phi grid was doing well for these shots on 16:9 (generally) and then the rule of thirds was a little better on the 2 : 35:1 (generally). I feel that stretching the golden ratio out across the 2 : 35:1 framing is probably a little beyond its breaking point for still maintaining its golden-ness hah... whereas it still feels useable and not overly compromised for 16:9. Ill probably still stick to 3rds as I shoot in 2 : 35:1 but if I ever have some 16:9 projects I’ll definitely consider some phi framing for it
Fly Guy glad u liked it mate. Little too long but wanted to give both rules a fair shout. Yes I agree. Phi grid for most of the more minimal compositions. But if shot had much complexity /clutter then the ROT seemed to look better. Fun experiment.
Thank you very much! Very helpful! Personally, I prefer the Phi Grid for 16:9 .. it's just, I dunno, feels like more filling (for the negative space) and make things blended together nicely..
I have to agree that my opinion changed for different shots. I seem to like the rule of 3rds better when there are vertical subjects. When there are long horizontal shots, the golden ratio can work better. I've lived by the rule of thirds for fifteen plus years now, so I'm probably biased, since it seems to look more "normal" to me.
I agree, its a subtle difference isn't it. We are almost trained to accept the rule of thirds 'look'. So many great scenes in our favourite films are very 1/3 divided. So its almost looks better just because we subconsciously relate it to cool films/scenes. But, as I said in the vid, the more minimal shots did seem to look more considered, and were simply more pleasing to me in the Golden ratio layout.... Its all just for fun anyway. Its just not practical to use any kind of rules for 95% of shots in the real world... but still, a fun experiment.
That's probably because the horizontal lines were the only ones that were not stretched, thus maintaining the golden ratio as it should've been for them. Since the verticals were stretched, it transformed into a totally different proportion and lost the golden ratio
I'm not really into photography and when I discovered the Rule of Thirds, it helped me plan out the scenery of my drawings and sample shots. Then now, that I discovered the Phi Grid, it opened a new door for me. I have now a clear idea on how I could make my shots/scenes better. I will use both depending on the situation. Phi grid looks more appealing so it would be better when showing off the environment while the Rule of Thirds gives more emphasis to something so ot would be better to use this if what I picture in mind is somewhat narrative. This is very educational. Thank you very much~!
On my experience, 16:9 the phi grid felt like if the focus went to one single object whereas the rule of thirds felt like if the focus was spread across all the elements in the picture happens the complete opposite on 2.35:1, phi felt like someone moved the camera accidentally but rule of thirds made it feel like a normal shot
THANKS GOD FOR THIS VIDEO!!!! now i understand why the rule of thirds looks so rigid and the shoots that i shot didn't look the way i wanted and i have seen in films. Definitely i'm a prayer of golden ratio
Great visual exercise, thanks! I think my preferences generally lean toward golden ratio because I like the compositional tensions it tends to create - it always feels a bit tighter, a bit faster and a bit more complex. That said, sometimes a softer, calmer look is what fits the feel best, or the goal is to indicate a slowed sense of time. I didn't realize until I looked at your comparisons what a huge impact each format has on the sense of time passing! I also noticed that the rule of thirds compositions evoked a different era of film (older) in every case, which is hugely interesting. Love that you did this - great to get out of one's head and simply look at what's so.
JORDesignStudio great observations. Hadn't thought about the difference it might make to the sense of time passing. Generally in comics they use wider shorter panels to make it feel like more time has passed in that panel. Obviously different, but maybe some cross overs to film. :)
Thank you for this video. I recently acquired a smartphone with a the Golden Ratio grid option as well as my regularly used Rule of Thirds grid on previous phones and dSLRs. I enjoyed and learned your comparison in this video and I am drawn to the Phi Grid which I'll start using on my smatphone from now on. Your fan and new subscriber from Sydney, Australia
Thanks for this clear and explanatory video.. I really was looking for some info like this, the way you contrasted both images (videos) was great!. Works for photography and video as well.
I find a preference in both but for specific composition... Golden ratio overall but I can see the rule of thirds come forth if the lower thirds or perhaps one side of the third (or 1/3 of the image) is a flat/simple image covering the area eg no ppl, or just ocean, same part of landscape weather to be a tree strictly/mainly or the mountain......
This is a really informative video. I never use the Golden Ratio in photography (probably because I haven't researched/experimented with it much) but this video, because of the many comparison examples you gave, has piqued my interest in trying it now. I think the Golden Ratio is better than the Rule of Thirds in situations where the rest of the frame has elements which are equally interesting (but not overpowering) or has elements which can complement our mail subject (at 09:17 the boat looks better framed because the horizon is more balanced with respect to the entire screen). I guess this is all up to our judgement and personal styling. But thank you so much for this video, once again. Definitely going to try it in my layouts now (I am in advertising).
Fantastic video analysis!! Never seen these two ratios / rules compared side by side... and it was a bit of a "game changer." Wow, I did not expect to overwhelmingly prefer the Golden Showe... (whoops) Golden Ratio to the extent that I did. The examples you included were terrific, and only in a few did I feel that the Rule of 3rd's felt "right" or preferable for the shot, as apposed to the other. I teach Video Production at a HS and - if you don't mind - I would like to show this video as part of my ongoing curriculum regarding Composition. I also greatly appreciated your clear and concise explanations and examples of aspect ratio. This is another area where students tend to experience lots of confusion. Well Done! Thanks for your efforts.
Jono T thanks for feedback. Considering it’s such a subjective thing (composition) it’s strange how maths does play a big factor in many people’s preferences. And, yes, of course I would be proud that my video is being useful as a teaching aid. :)
Interesting to note also, that 3:2 or 1.66:1 is actually the classic cinema aspect ratio that’s the closest to the proportions of the golden cut (the shining was shot in this for example). So if you are looking for an aspect ratio in which the Phi Grid works even better, it’s worth giving that one a shot!
Great in-depth overview of compositional rules. Nice to hear a fellow west country accent too, makes a change from the usual American teenage nasal whine on most YT tutorial/how to's which can get a tad wearing.
you are quite right that there is no one rule that just works. Different scenes require different framing... I find having any grid displayed in the camera viewfinder very restrictive like it forces me to use a particular rule. I prefer to follow my gut instinct for framing.
Thank you very much for taking the time to do these tests. To my surprise I preferred the rule-of-thirds in every shot. I found the frame more pleasingly balanced, and the subjects tended to "pop" more. This became particularly apparent with the lighthouse shot, which could easily have been a perfectly symmetrical composition. However I can think of two examples that might not fall into either category: Kubrick (you know,the director), and Gordon Willis (great cinematographer of Parallax View, Godfather, etc). If you have time, a similar analysis might yield some interesting results. Thanks again!
Really interesting! Because I realized for myself that I'm more drawn towards compositions made up with the golden ratio rather than the rule of thirds, which my eyes think look more correct, but also boring, it loses some tension.
simple yet very informative video, especially the use of the same shot but with different composition. I've always wondered how people use golden ratio when taking photographs, since there is no grid for that and eye-balling it is... well i guess just practice
Very interesting content thank you! For me I found golden ratio more beautiful for 16*9, it looked more natural somehow, but for wider format I prefered the rule of thirds as it seemed more balanced. Super cool comparison!
I find myself drawn to the rule of thirds more often regardless of the aspect ratio. However, think I will experiment more with the golden ratio in the future. Could be a useful tool as well. Thanks for adding to my bucket of knowledge.
Amazing shots... they really put sense on the differense of the two rules. I feel that for 16:9 the rule of thirds suits better since it will create space in a narrower frame. In the other hand I feel that for the 2.35 : 1, the golden ratio or phi grid is more suitable since this aspect ratio already give a wide space, but if you need that extra spacious feeling, I will go with the rule of thirds.
I'm totally amazed to see the amount of details and efforts u put on this video! This video really helps me to understand the differences. Thanks. And of course I'm gonna subscribe to be in touch to see the other contents of yours.❤️❤️
Very interesting comparison, especially since you had so many shots side by side. I think that for most shots, independent of aspect ratio, the phi grid worked better for aligning horizontal lines since the rule of thirds left to little sky or ground and so the scene felt imbalanced. When it comes to vertical lines, I think that the phi grid wins in situations where the object you're aligning is the only object that "has a weight". For cases where you have multiple objects with weight (like a dialog with the second characters shoulder in the frame), the rule of thirds gives a more pleasant composition. The rule of thirds also wins when the emphasis is on the negative space around around a character or object. Then you could even go further and put the character/object on the far left or far right side of the frame.
Awesome video! Within 2 : 35 : 1, I prefer the rule of thirds for the most part, except when shooting landscapes where the sky and ground meets up - 12:10. With the rule of thirds, it feels a bit cramped, while the phi grid makes it more pleasant. In general, hitting the golden line (and not the phi grid) in terms of composition, is what makes the ultimate effect, however its challenging.
Very interesting. I expected myself to either prefer the Phi Grid or the Rule of Thirds in general. But it really depends on the shot for me. A few shots even created a whole different composition in my opinion. For example, the Phi Grid for the shot at 7:35 dragged my eyes on the floating boat while the Rule of Thirds seems to be pushing more onto the lit houses in the background. Thanks alot for your effort on creating these test shoots and the video.
S DK glad it was useful buddy. :) yes my preference varies too. More minimal scenes seem to like phi. And more busy scene look better in thirds I think.
I really liked this video, I agree that in the smaller composition of 1:78:1 the Golden Ration worked best and was more applicable for that format, whoever; I think the Rule of thirds seemed work much better in the 2:35:1 composition. Thank you, i will play around with both of these rules a little more and see what my results are like.
Oliver Medina thanks. Yes i guess it really shouldn't be called a "rule" should it. It's all subjective and just fun to play around with really. For the vast majority of situations you wouldn't worry about this exact compositional stuff. But when you have plenty time to compose the shot it's nice to have some simple guidelines that you know should work. :)
Great video! Got me thinking that I shouldn't just default to the Phi grid. I'm testing out a 2.76:1 ratio, and maybe rule of thirds or 2x2 or 4x4 makes more sense for composition
To me the problem with these comparisons is that an image will have several lines where you can place those rulers. The natural elements have shadows, grass, roads etc going every which way and you can't really say who is using which composition. It is not always just the horizon that catches the eye that way for me. For a shot of a person on the other hand you can easily say because it is the eyes that attract the ruler.
Hiski Hämäläinen yes of course some scenes images will have clear horizontal and vertical lines that form strong compositional edges. Others will not. I was just judging things by eye and looking for anything that draws the eye or divides the space. It's all subjective. No such thing as real rules or rigid guides. But fun to experiment with this stuff for the heck of it.
Thanks for this very interesting explanation and demonstration.I am a total amateur and just take photos on my mobile. I've never even heard of the rule of thirds before so will try it out rather than sticking my subject slap bang in the middle of the photo! (I HAVE heard of Fibonacci) In general, I thought your compositions looked more pleasing with the golden ratio applied.
Lyndylupin thanks for input. Yes it's a strange one isn't it. Some seem to "just look right" in golden ratio. Some really worked better in the rule of thirds. Ps. You can turn on a rule of thirds guide on your iphone. (Or at least use a camera app to do it depending on model/version etc.)
On the second example, the Phi Grid just works well for horizontal purposes. That's because the horizontal lines were the only ones that were not stretched, thus maintaining the golden ratio as it should've been for them. Since the verticals were stretched, it transformed into a totally different proportion and lost the golden ratio
Hi biscuitsalive - thanks for sharing your insight. Learned a lot in this video which is well planned out with clear illustrations. Only friendly criticism would be that the video felt quite long, particularly the picture segment. I see three potential videos here - anyway that's just my opinion, thumbs up and keep up the good work.
YoLondon [Official] totally agree. If I set myself a limit to editing time. Then being too long is often the result. But I wanted to experiment and then edit that in one afternoon. So it was either upload as is or I wouldn't have got it finished as was busy the next day. That's the beauty of having a "for fun" RUclips channel. Some things can be polished. Some can be a bit sloppy and candid. Also allows random flight of fancy stuff. I have much more polished channel in the works. But il keep this one as creative and personal fun.
I found,the broader the format, the more both approximate each other, but that can be due to the fact that the lines go also in a mathematical sense into some kind of coincidence. Mostly the golden ratio is more interesting. But it depends.
There's so little between them that if you'd not seen one version you wouldn't really know which rule you had applied. RoT has always bugged me and annoys me when people criticise something for it not being withing the RoT. Rules are meant to be broken in art otherwise we'd all be making the same stuff. Great video though!
DroneSpots oh for sure! I don't even like calling them "rules" just makes you want to ignore them. But fun to side by side these things and see what the real difference is. Certainly no one should ever criticise someone for not following those rigid formulas. But I think anyone that points a camera should probably have some knowledge about these sorts of composition ideas and methods. If only to get them thinking about how they compose their shots a little bit more. Many people love this sort of information as it implies there is more depth to what they do. (Like the artist explaining that every single brush stroke is considered about for many moments before his brush touches the canvas) But for me it's just nerdy fun to experiment with. :) Great thing about cinematography is how it blends the technical with art.
biscuitsalive it was really interesting. I'd not seen a comparison like this before so hats off to you for doing it. certainly with the movies being in certain formats that I hadn't noticed were standard 16:9 format. I'm in Hayle this weekend so can you make sure the weather is good please :)
The rule of thirds is meant to be a rough approximation of the Golden Ratio, so it makes sense to me that there's little difference, other than the golden ratio is a tad tighter.
Canto34Productions tell that to a mathematician. :) Yep I hear you. But there is a fair difference. Look at paintings that used GR and they would be very different if they simply divided by 3.
I preferred the golden ratio on most shots in 1.78, and about 50/50 on 2.35. Interesting. Must go out and shoot some Academy examples and see which I prefer for that. Makes one wonder why 1.61 wasn’t chosen as an ideal ratio for TV and motion pictures.
Hi there, i had some experiments with the golden sho... Ratio... xD let's call it phi for now just incase of the typo... it seems the phi produce a more cinematic and pleasing look as it tend to include more detail of the scene into the frame vs the rule of third, which works especially well at an wide aspect ratio. However, for me at least when filming/photographing in a 4:3 or 3:2 aspect ratio, it seems the rule of third produce a more balanced and pleasing result o. O very interesting experiment for me as a beginner, thank you so much for the vid, and a bit of laugh xD
Thanks for making this buddy =] The Golden Ratio is something I completely forgot about since college like 12 years ago ! I'm not sure I'd be much help but I found if the main object was vertical or left of the screen then the Golden Ratio but Rule of Thirds if right / horizontal ..... How very weird! Ha (again not for every shot but the majority) Something for me to think about =D Ha
John R Dove thanks John. It's all subjective so everyone's opinion is completely valid. (All the maths doesn't mean jack really) Maybe that L/R preference is something to do with brain hemisphere dominance. Might be interesting to follow up on that. May tell you more than you want to know about your noggin. :)
to make a proper comparison it's best to have multiple elements in the frame and move the elements AND the camera. the concept is great and the idea is good but a simple software crop doesn't do it justice. it's not simply about changing the horizon line
Personally i find horzons to be very important. And i like about the golden ratio, that they are more centered. But otherwise... do as you please i guess.
Is there a way that we can get the golden ratio on our mirrorless camera or is there a hack To get it I want to start framing my video using the golden ratio if you know any way please help this was an fantastic video
Haha I prefer your version. 'Goodfellows' - a charming story about a young man who ascends the ranks of very polite English butlers, until his career is unravelled by his addiction to scones.
If your going to use the Golden Ratio, then use the golden Ratio. Don't stretch and say it shouldn't make a difference. If you intend to use the Golden Ratio, then you intend to demonstrate its natural math does something. Don't stretch it expecting the same, you just make it meaningless, by demonstrating the frame you stretch it too, does something nice. Whoopi doo!
LineaDeus it’s about proportions within that frame. (Dividing lines) So the percentage of placement of objects/key lines across the screen remains the same. This is what great painters have done for many generations. Do you think all painters that use the golden section make their canvases exactly the same aspect ratio as the GS! Of course not. They use the GS proportions as a guide. As I did here. Who is going to make a movie at GR AR? Practically no one. Hence I chose 2 of the most used ARs in the tv and film industry. Just as the ROT works for any AR.(1/3 across, or down the frame) The Phi grid gives a reference division point for any AR. (Roughly 62% across or down).
(16 : 9) I DRASTICALLY prefer the Phi Grid (Golden Ratio)
(2 : 35 : 1) I prefer the rule of thirds SLIGHTLY
This was kind of mind blowing.
The Rule of Third shots in 16:9 looked like some random with a DSLR, but those same shots in Phi Grid looked superbly cinematic. I wan't expecting to feel strongly either way, but DAMN!
What's interesting... is how in the wider 2:35:1 the magic was lost, I suppose you can only stretch the Golden Ratio so far before it breaks, I didn't feel the magic in 2:35:1 with the rule of thirds as i had with the golden ratio in 16:9, however it is worth noting that it performed better than the golden ratio by small but significant margin in 2:35:1.
In short... at 16:9 the golden ratio doesn't stretch enough for it to lose it's "magic" or "break"
Thanks for making this.
Ashur George good input. I agree with you for most of it. Always some shots that don't work for either phi or thirds. But yes the 16:9 phi ones look better
Can I chime in? I've been studying (practicing) composition for quite a while now, and do agree with your observations. It all comes down to negative space, as the golden ration tends to condense the composition. Thanks for sharing.
It's because wide locations look better when they're... wide, it's achieved with a smaller Focal Length. Comparing exactly the same recordings here ignores the possibility of changing the Focal Length.
Exactly!
One of the best videos on RUclips that actually helps ...
For me, the Phi Grid feels a lot more cinematic while the rule of thirds is more natural and realistic. I guess the point is to use each one to best convey the feeling you are trying to capture.
yep, that seems to match what other people have said (phi grid more cinematic/aesthetically pleasing) which shows it is a fundamental mathematical principle, (to some degree) and not just purely subjective. which is cool. :)
Why this video has so less views ! It deserves million.
ROKIBUL ISLAM it’s pretty esoteric stuff. :)
biscuitsalive
Indeed. This helps me a lot. Create more stuffs like this. Thank You.
Thanks for putting this together, Ive found my self coming back to this video over the past couple of days to reference it, cheers!
as you said, rule of thirds on a landscape or minimal shot with nothing to focus feels like it tries to make you focus onto something but not sure what. at the same time phi grid does absolutely stunning job with such scenes, it almost makes me zone out while watching the scene in kinda good way.
Thank You for making this beautiful video. I have seen lots of video about the rule of thirds and a mention about the golden ratio in few videos but no one has explained the golden ratio and the aspect ratio in so much detail and easy to understand. This video surely shows that you have done a lot of research on this subject. Thank You biscuitsalive!
Shailendra Chari you are very welcome. And thanks for the kind comment. :)
I really enjoyed this video as you went over the different ways of looking at a frame. I definitely love the golden ratio I've fallen in love with it. I can see the difference. I feel like if you tell the movie through the center rectangle that's the most important thing to do and then everything else accompanies the center . The shot with the two people at the table at two different ends of it. Even though the sinner shot would be just an empty table, that is actually the best way to tell that story in that frame. Golden ratio tells stories.
Really excellent video, seemed for me that the phi grid was doing well for these shots on 16:9 (generally) and then the rule of thirds was a little better on the 2 : 35:1 (generally). I feel that stretching the golden ratio out across the 2 : 35:1 framing is probably a little beyond its breaking point for still maintaining its golden-ness hah... whereas it still feels useable and not overly compromised for 16:9. Ill probably still stick to 3rds as I shoot in 2 : 35:1 but if I ever have some 16:9 projects I’ll definitely consider some phi framing for it
Fly Guy glad u liked it mate. Little too long but wanted to give both rules a fair shout.
Yes I agree. Phi grid for most of the more minimal compositions. But if shot had much complexity /clutter then the ROT seemed to look better.
Fun experiment.
Yes Excellent !
Thank you very much! Very helpful! Personally, I prefer the Phi Grid for 16:9 .. it's just, I dunno, feels like more filling (for the negative space) and make things blended together nicely..
Naufal Aziz Ferbi that seems to be the popular choice. :)
Must be something to the maths if most people prefer that one.
Great video. Golden ration pulls ahead for me in general, but I agree with your point about it depending on the shot when there's a lot going on.
Cool, agreed, thanks for your input. :)
I have to agree that my opinion changed for different shots. I seem to like the rule of 3rds better when there are vertical subjects. When there are long horizontal shots, the golden ratio can work better. I've lived by the rule of thirds for fifteen plus years now, so I'm probably biased, since it seems to look more "normal" to me.
I agree, its a subtle difference isn't it. We are almost trained to accept the rule of thirds 'look'. So many great scenes in our favourite films are very 1/3 divided. So its almost looks better just because we subconsciously relate it to cool films/scenes. But, as I said in the vid, the more minimal shots did seem to look more considered, and were simply more pleasing to me in the Golden ratio layout.... Its all just for fun anyway. Its just not practical to use any kind of rules for 95% of shots in the real world... but still, a fun experiment.
That's probably because the horizontal lines were the only ones that were not stretched, thus maintaining the golden ratio as it should've been for them. Since the verticals were stretched, it transformed into a totally different proportion and lost the golden ratio
I'm not really into photography and when I discovered the Rule of Thirds, it helped me plan out the scenery of my drawings and sample shots.
Then now, that I discovered the Phi Grid, it opened a new door for me. I have now a clear idea on how I could make my shots/scenes better.
I will use both depending on the situation. Phi grid looks more appealing so it would be better when showing off the environment while the Rule of Thirds gives more emphasis to something so ot would be better to use this if what I picture in mind is somewhat narrative.
This is very educational. Thank you very much~!
On my experience, 16:9 the phi grid felt like if the focus went to one single object whereas the rule of thirds felt like if the focus was spread across all the elements in the picture
happens the complete opposite on 2.35:1, phi felt like someone moved the camera accidentally but rule of thirds made it feel like a normal shot
The best video ever about some important rules of composition!
THANKS GOD FOR THIS VIDEO!!!! now i understand why the rule of thirds looks so rigid and the shoots that i shot didn't look the way i wanted and i have seen in films. Definitely i'm a prayer of golden ratio
thank you sir! finally understood the golden ratio and rule of thirds. very comprehensive and clear examples!
so happy i found this gem!! the phi grid is really superior at 2.35 to 1 no question there for me
Great visual exercise, thanks! I think my preferences generally lean toward golden ratio because I like the compositional tensions it tends to create - it always feels a bit tighter, a bit faster and a bit more complex. That said, sometimes a softer, calmer look is what fits the feel best, or the goal is to indicate a slowed sense of time. I didn't realize until I looked at your comparisons what a huge impact each format has on the sense of time passing!
I also noticed that the rule of thirds compositions evoked a different era of film (older) in every case, which is hugely interesting.
Love that you did this - great to get out of one's head and simply look at what's so.
JORDesignStudio great observations. Hadn't thought about the difference it might make to the sense of time passing.
Generally in comics they use wider shorter panels to make it feel like more time has passed in that panel.
Obviously different, but maybe some cross overs to film. :)
Thank you for this video. I recently acquired a smartphone with a the Golden Ratio grid option as well as my regularly used Rule of Thirds grid on previous phones and dSLRs.
I enjoyed and learned your comparison in this video and I am drawn to the Phi Grid which I'll start using on my smatphone from now on.
Your fan and new subscriber from Sydney, Australia
Thanks for this clear and explanatory video.. I really was looking for some info like this, the way you contrasted both images (videos) was great!. Works for photography and video as well.
I find a preference in both but for specific composition... Golden ratio overall but I can see the rule of thirds come forth if the lower thirds or perhaps one side of the third (or 1/3 of the image) is a flat/simple image covering the area eg no ppl, or just ocean, same part of landscape weather to be a tree strictly/mainly or the mountain......
Thanks for your input. I think many people are thinking along those lines. I guess this shows there is something to that maths. :)
This is a really informative video. I never use the Golden Ratio in photography (probably because I haven't researched/experimented with it much) but this video, because of the many comparison examples you gave, has piqued my interest in trying it now. I think the Golden Ratio is better than the Rule of Thirds in situations where the rest of the frame has elements which are equally interesting (but not overpowering) or has elements which can complement our mail subject (at 09:17 the boat looks better framed because the horizon is more balanced with respect to the entire screen). I guess this is all up to our judgement and personal styling.
But thank you so much for this video, once again. Definitely going to try it in my layouts now (I am in advertising).
Glad to hear it was useful. :)
Fantastic video analysis!! Never seen these two ratios / rules compared side by side... and it was a bit of a "game changer." Wow, I did not expect to overwhelmingly prefer the Golden Showe... (whoops) Golden Ratio to the extent that I did. The examples you included were terrific, and only in a few did I feel that the Rule of 3rd's felt "right" or preferable for the shot, as apposed to the other. I teach Video Production at a HS and - if you don't mind - I would like to show this video as part of my ongoing curriculum regarding Composition. I also greatly appreciated your clear and concise explanations and examples of aspect ratio. This is another area where students tend to experience lots of confusion. Well Done! Thanks for your efforts.
Jono T thanks for feedback. Considering it’s such a subjective thing (composition) it’s strange how maths does play a big factor in many people’s preferences. And, yes, of course I would be proud that my video is being useful as a teaching aid. :)
Interesting to note also, that 3:2 or 1.66:1 is actually the classic cinema aspect ratio that’s the closest to the proportions of the golden cut (the shining was shot in this for example). So if you are looking for an aspect ratio in which the Phi Grid works even better, it’s worth giving that one a shot!
Best video Ive seen about this topic. Thank you!
Great in-depth overview of compositional rules. Nice to hear a fellow west country accent too, makes a change from the usual American teenage nasal whine on most YT tutorial/how to's which can get a tad wearing.
Andy Ballard I’m sure my Bristol accent would grate after a while too. :) but we are who we are. And thanks.
Big yes for Phi / Golden ratio. 16:9 easier or more pleasing to the eye. As Rule of thirds seems to suck some of the life out of the composition.
you are quite right that there is no one rule that just works. Different scenes require different framing... I find having any grid displayed in the camera viewfinder very restrictive like it forces me to use a particular rule. I prefer to follow my gut instinct for framing.
Best video I've seen on aspect ratios in video photography. Well done.
Great video!! I think both of them works well but its just depends on the mood of the shot, what is outside the lens and personal preference.
Thank you very much for taking the time to do these tests. To my surprise I preferred the rule-of-thirds in every shot. I found the frame more pleasingly balanced, and the subjects tended to "pop" more. This became particularly apparent with the lighthouse shot, which could easily have been a perfectly symmetrical composition.
However I can think of two examples that might not fall into either category: Kubrick (you know,the director), and Gordon Willis (great cinematographer of Parallax View, Godfather, etc). If you have time, a similar analysis might yield some interesting results.
Thanks again!
interesting input, thanks, most people prefer golden section... just goes to show its all subjective really, despite the maths etc.
Really interesting! Because I realized for myself that I'm more drawn towards compositions made up with the golden ratio rather than the rule of thirds, which my eyes think look more correct, but also boring, it loses some tension.
simple yet very informative video, especially the use of the same shot but with different composition. I've always wondered how people use golden ratio when taking photographs, since there is no grid for that and eye-balling it is... well i guess just practice
i guess its easy to stick some acetate over your camera screen and draw your own GR grid lines. :)
What this made clear to me is how I can’t sense a preference, it shifts with context. Which means I’m not always into the golden ratio I guess....
Very interesting content thank you! For me I found golden ratio more beautiful for 16*9, it looked more natural somehow, but for wider format I prefered the rule of thirds as it seemed more balanced. Super cool comparison!
This is great video, great presentation. Very well done!
Thanks!
I find myself drawn to the rule of thirds more often regardless of the aspect ratio. However, think I will experiment more with the golden ratio in the future. Could be a useful tool as well. Thanks for adding to my bucket of knowledge.
Amazing shots... they really put sense on the differense of the two rules. I feel that for 16:9 the rule of thirds suits better since it will create space in a narrower frame. In the other hand I feel that for the 2.35 : 1, the golden ratio or phi grid is more suitable since this aspect ratio already give a wide space, but if you need that extra spacious feeling, I will go with the rule of thirds.
I'm totally amazed to see the amount of details and efforts u put on this video! This video really helps me to understand the differences. Thanks.
And of course I'm gonna subscribe to be in touch to see the other contents of yours.❤️❤️
Very interesting comparison, especially since you had so many shots side by side. I think that for most shots, independent of aspect ratio, the phi grid worked better for aligning horizontal lines since the rule of thirds left to little sky or ground and so the scene felt imbalanced. When it comes to vertical lines, I think that the phi grid wins in situations where the object you're aligning is the only object that "has a weight". For cases where you have multiple objects with weight (like a dialog with the second characters shoulder in the frame), the rule of thirds gives a more pleasant composition. The rule of thirds also wins when the emphasis is on the negative space around around a character or object. Then you could even go further and put the character/object on the far left or far right side of the frame.
Rules of thirds gives a more common feel, down to earth feeling, while golden ratio gives a mystical transcendent vibe to it.
One of the informative video on this subject I have seen. Thanks.
Your concepts are very clear. God bless from India.
Awesome video! Within 2 : 35 : 1, I prefer the rule of thirds for the most part, except when shooting landscapes where the sky and ground meets up - 12:10. With the rule of thirds, it feels a bit cramped, while the phi grid makes it more pleasant. In general, hitting the golden line (and not the phi grid) in terms of composition, is what makes the ultimate effect, however its challenging.
Very interesting. I expected myself to either prefer the Phi Grid or the Rule of Thirds in general. But it really depends on the shot for me. A few shots even created a whole different composition in my opinion. For example, the Phi Grid for the shot at 7:35 dragged my eyes on the floating boat while the Rule of Thirds seems to be pushing more onto the lit houses in the background.
Thanks alot for your effort on creating these test shoots and the video.
S DK glad it was useful buddy. :) yes my preference varies too.
More minimal scenes seem to like phi. And more busy scene look better in thirds I think.
Excellent comparison
I really liked this video, I agree that in the smaller composition of 1:78:1 the Golden Ration worked best and was more applicable for that format, whoever; I think the Rule of thirds seemed work much better in the 2:35:1 composition. Thank you, i will play around with both of these rules a little more and see what my results are like.
Oliver Medina thanks.
Yes i guess it really shouldn't be called a "rule" should it. It's all subjective and just fun to play around with really. For the vast majority of situations you wouldn't worry about this exact compositional stuff.
But when you have plenty time to compose the shot it's nice to have some simple guidelines that you know should work. :)
Great video! Got me thinking that I shouldn't just default to the Phi grid. I'm testing out a 2.76:1 ratio, and maybe rule of thirds or 2x2 or 4x4 makes more sense for composition
Thanks a lot for sharing this superb vid! Excellent indeed!
Excellent video..... thank you dear....
Exceptional video! Thanks for sharing !
To me the problem with these comparisons is that an image will have several lines where you can place those rulers. The natural elements have shadows, grass, roads etc going every which way and you can't really say who is using which composition. It is not always just the horizon that catches the eye that way for me. For a shot of a person on the other hand you can easily say because it is the eyes that attract the ruler.
Hiski Hämäläinen yes of course some scenes images will have clear horizontal and vertical lines that form strong compositional edges. Others will not.
I was just judging things by eye and looking for anything that draws the eye or divides the space.
It's all subjective. No such thing as real rules or rigid guides. But fun to experiment with this stuff for the heck of it.
Thanks for this very interesting explanation and demonstration.I am a total amateur and just take photos on my mobile. I've never even heard of the rule of thirds before so will try it out rather than sticking my subject slap bang in the middle of the photo! (I HAVE heard of Fibonacci) In general, I thought your compositions looked more pleasing with the golden ratio applied.
Lyndylupin thanks for input.
Yes it's a strange one isn't it. Some seem to "just look right" in golden ratio. Some really worked better in the rule of thirds.
Ps. You can turn on a rule of thirds guide on your iphone.
(Or at least use a camera app to do it depending on model/version etc.)
I think for widescreen (cinemascope) use rule of thirds and for flat use golden ratio.
On the second example, the Phi Grid just works well for horizontal purposes. That's because the horizontal lines were the only ones that were not stretched, thus maintaining the golden ratio as it should've been for them. Since the verticals were stretched, it transformed into a totally different proportion and lost the golden ratio
Thank You!
Hi biscuitsalive - thanks for sharing your insight. Learned a lot in this video which is well planned out with clear illustrations. Only friendly criticism would be that the video felt quite long, particularly the picture segment. I see three potential videos here - anyway that's just my opinion, thumbs up and keep up the good work.
YoLondon [Official] totally agree.
If I set myself a limit to editing time. Then being too long is often the result.
But I wanted to experiment and then edit that in one afternoon. So it was either upload as is or I wouldn't have got it finished as was busy the next day.
That's the beauty of having a "for fun" RUclips channel. Some things can be polished. Some can be a bit sloppy and candid. Also allows random flight of fancy stuff.
I have much more polished channel in the works.
But il keep this one as creative and personal fun.
At 7:56 the golden ratio seemed to do a better job at cinematic shots while the rule of thirds seemed to be more for photographic shots.
Great experiment, thanks!
I found,the broader the format, the more both approximate each other, but that can be due to the fact that the lines go also in a mathematical sense into some kind of coincidence. Mostly the golden ratio is more interesting. But it depends.
The golden ratio makes for a more pleasant and attractive composition.
There's so little between them that if you'd not seen one version you wouldn't really know which rule you had applied. RoT has always bugged me and annoys me when people criticise something for it not being withing the RoT. Rules are meant to be broken in art otherwise we'd all be making the same stuff. Great video though!
DroneSpots oh for sure! I don't even like calling them "rules" just makes you want to ignore them.
But fun to side by side these things and see what the real difference is.
Certainly no one should ever criticise someone for not following those rigid formulas. But I think anyone that points a camera should probably have some knowledge about these sorts of composition ideas and methods. If only to get them thinking about how they compose their shots a little bit more.
Many people love this sort of information as it implies there is more depth to what they do.
(Like the artist explaining that every single brush stroke is considered about for many moments before his brush touches the canvas)
But for me it's just nerdy fun to experiment with. :)
Great thing about cinematography is how it blends the technical with art.
biscuitsalive it was really interesting. I'd not seen a comparison like this before so hats off to you for doing it. certainly with the movies being in certain formats that I hadn't noticed were standard 16:9 format.
I'm in Hayle this weekend so can you make sure the weather is good please :)
Awesome video...thankyou sir ❤️❤️
The rule of thirds is meant to be a rough approximation of the Golden Ratio, so it makes sense to me that there's little difference, other than the golden ratio is a tad tighter.
Canto34Productions tell that to a mathematician. :)
Yep I hear you. But there is a fair difference. Look at paintings that used GR and they would be very different if they simply divided by 3.
I preferred the golden ratio on most shots in 1.78, and about 50/50 on 2.35. Interesting. Must go out and shoot some Academy examples and see which I prefer for that. Makes one wonder why 1.61 wasn’t chosen as an ideal ratio for TV and motion pictures.
Hi there, i had some experiments with the golden sho... Ratio... xD let's call it phi for now just incase of the typo... it seems the phi produce a more cinematic and pleasing look as it tend to include more detail of the scene into the frame vs the rule of third, which works especially well at an wide aspect ratio. However, for me at least when filming/photographing in a 4:3 or 3:2 aspect ratio, it seems the rule of third produce a more balanced and pleasing result o. O very interesting experiment for me as a beginner, thank you so much for the vid, and a bit of laugh xD
Thanks for making this buddy =] The Golden Ratio is something I completely forgot about since college like 12 years ago !
I'm not sure I'd be much help but I found if the main object was vertical or left of the screen then the Golden Ratio but Rule of Thirds if right / horizontal ..... How very weird! Ha (again not for every shot but the majority) Something for me to think about =D Ha
John R Dove thanks John. It's all subjective so everyone's opinion is completely valid.
(All the maths doesn't mean jack really)
Maybe that L/R preference is something to do with brain hemisphere dominance.
Might be interesting to follow up on that. May tell you more than you want to know about your noggin. :)
biscuitsalive I don't think you're far off on that ! Nice to watch a video that actually makes you think 👍🏻
John R Dove check out veritasium. Smarter every day. Vsauce. (If you want vids that make you think) :)
excellent video!
Emily Cunningham glad it was useful.
I maybe should have made it a bit shorter in hindsight. But some fun info in there I think.
great video
@@gabriel-mckee always nice to hear.
Phi Grid - in most of the examples
Thanks for uploading this bro! You deserve a lot of more views. Thank you very much
excelent video
amazing video many thanx
Have you ever done a video on the use of the Phi grid and Fibonacci sequence in the Netflix show The OA?
I think Golden Ratio suits For Video and Rule of thirds suits for Photo.
Best video
How about 4x4 grid. My camera doest have 3x3 grid
to make a proper comparison it's best to have multiple elements in the frame and move the elements AND the camera. the concept is great and the idea is good but a simple software crop doesn't do it justice. it's not simply about changing the horizon line
Just Thank You
movie addict glad it was useful. :)
Thank you :)
Personally i find horzons to be very important. And i like about the golden ratio, that they are more centered. But otherwise... do as you please i guess.
for me it depends on the subject, if its a pure landscape then rule of thrids looks better but if there is a subject that is a person Phi looks better
The phi grid looks much better to me. This makes me thinking..
Phi grid looks better for cinematography
Rule of thirds shots look better for photography. They remind me of paintings and motivational posters
hey, thanks i realy like 16:9 ratio for the Golden Grid. HOW CAN put this GRID in to my CAMERA SETTINGS? is it Possible?
bestvideos4ever1 hi. I don’t think so. Only rule of thirds in most camera.
You would have to print or draw a acetate overlay I guess.
How can I compare golden ratio & rule of third when I'm not told where do you want me to look at....? I mean attention...
Subbed, answered just what I wanted with a bit of extra Trivia but nothing off the point!
back to revision... sigh...
Looveee it
Is there a way that we can get the golden ratio on our mirrorless camera or is there a hack
To get it I want to start framing my video using the golden ratio if you know any way please help this was an fantastic video
Just use some electrical tape maybe. On the screen. (Very thin strip stuck to monitor)
@@biscuitsalive ok but do I use a rule to measure it that’s my question how do I measure it out lol like where are the guide lines
Phi looks way much prettier in my opinion.
wow! Thanks,you even play guitar...
In my opinion, Ruses of Third is nicer to watch.
Most movies are shot in 2.39:1 or 21:9 not 2.35:1
Golden Ratio wins of course
'Goodfellows"
Tommy W lol. I hadn't noticed I said that!
Goodfellas... u knew what I meant. :D
Haha I prefer your version. 'Goodfellows' - a charming story about a young man who ascends the ranks of very polite English butlers, until his career is unravelled by his addiction to scones.
well how about that, just about all my photographs are golden ratio without me even realising it
Golden ratio.
If your going to use the Golden Ratio, then use the golden Ratio. Don't stretch and say it shouldn't make a difference. If you intend to use the Golden Ratio, then you intend to demonstrate its natural math does something. Don't stretch it expecting the same, you just make it meaningless, by demonstrating the frame you stretch it too, does something nice. Whoopi doo!
LineaDeus it’s about proportions within that frame. (Dividing lines) So the percentage of placement of objects/key lines across the screen remains the same.
This is what great painters have done for many generations.
Do you think all painters that use the golden section make their canvases exactly the same aspect ratio as the GS!
Of course not. They use the GS proportions as a guide. As I did here.
Who is going to make a movie at GR AR?
Practically no one. Hence I chose 2 of the most used ARs in the tv and film industry.
Just as the ROT works for any AR.(1/3 across, or down the frame)
The Phi grid gives a reference division point for any AR. (Roughly 62% across or down).
6:53