A Refleks Stove - Things we wished we knew before buying one!
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- The pros and cons of a Refleks Diesel Stove as experienced by Peter during its first winter. We had a conversation and Peter relates the issues he has had and the benefits to him.
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Thanks for sharing!
I had Refleks stoves in my first two boats, no problems ever, the first one was a stove I got for free after the boat it was mounted in sunk. Just cleaned it and it worked well. Then I built a new boat with a forced air diesel heater. One year later after tons of issues I removed it and mounted a Pyro stove (A Norwegian stove similar to Refleks) burned continuously from October to April for 13years without any issues.
Now I have a sailboat with a wood stove and a diesel forced water heater. The water heater does have a lot of issues and I'm seriously considering a Refleks stove again.
The wood stove is great, but small, so it gets cold when I go to sleep or are away from the boat.
Hope you figure out your issues, I would suspect the height of the tank or water in diesel might be the reason for your need to top it up often.
Great video! Keep up the good work.
Thank you for the stories of your experiences. Glad your stove has given you such great service. I think the problems have now been resolved and Peter is able to turn the stove on ok now so all’s well for the moment. Thanks for watching. 🙂
Had one fitted a few months ago at same time as my other boaty friend. Mine just doesn’t perform the same as his, yellow flame, sooting up inside the glass and not kicking out the same heat. Have contacted Paul at Lockgate for follow up advice. It’s not gotten very cold yet and I’m worried about it’s ability to keep me warm this winter as it stands. I did opt for a custom tank and went for a 100 litre tank built into the well deck.
Hi Peter,
In Canada, when the temperatures get cold, farmers will add a bit of kerosene to their diesel to prevent it from "jelling up". I believe it is a 20% to 80% mix. You might find that uncle Google has something to say about this.
As for the little holes that you clean out, you should not have to touch them until you notice an irregularity in the flame, either colour or uniformity. The holes are where the diesel vapor exits and at times they get carboned up if the air fuel ratio is not correct.
The residue down the side of your chimney may have been diesel that had not completely burned and thus is similar to creosote that forms in a wood stove.
As you don't keep your diesel tank full all the time, have you checked for water in the bottom of the tank. This could be the reason for your poor burn when your tank is 1/3 full. The other possibility is that you don't have enough height between the tank and the stove.
Mark
Alberta, Canada
Hello Mark. Your comment offers a lot of advice that hopefully will help Peter going forward. Do you have a Refleks stove yourself? It sounds like you’re speaking from experience. Many thanks for watching the video and commenting. 🙂
Living on a narrow boat is a dream for me, one that I will never attain.
I have lived in the back woods of British Columbia with my partner and we had the privilege to build our own home there while learning to be self sufficient. Our home was heated with two wood burning stoves so we learned a lot about fires and their problems.
Pertaining to narrow boats, over the last 6 months I have become an avid watcher of videos put out by narrow boaters and have learned a lot about their issues, while living aboard and how they resolved their issues.
Mark
Alberta, Canada@@PartTimeBoater
Hi Mark, thanks for your well laid out comments, which I read with interest.
I don't think we get cold enough on the canals to need to treat the diesel oil with kerosene. Like I said in the video, I do remember in my army days struggling with the diesel for our mobile workshop generator when the air temp was -25C in North Germany but the lowest I've seen recently is -7C, and the stove fuel tank is under cover on the front deck.
The stove supplier also said the tarry residue was from incompletely burned diesel, possibly caused by a disruption in fuel supply such as strong gusts of wind down the chimney over a couple of hours. Fortunately it only happened that one time - so far.
At the last visit from the supplier he reshaped the supply pipe leading from the tank to the stove - a drop of about 2 feet - and since then I can run the tank down lower while still getting enough fuel into the stove. Before the stove kept burning but with a yellow flame that didn't produce enough heat, just lots of soot. For the last two weeks the stove has behaved exactly as I expected so fingers crossed.
As to boating dreams, yesterday marked six years since I moved onto my boat and it is still fun and rewarding (mostly). There is a family owned boat hire business here in Stone with about 15 boats for hire. When I was buying diesel from them yesterday they told me most of the business is one or two weeks rentals but they several regular customers who come from places like Germany and go on much longer cruises around the country, for a month or two. We met an American lady once who has a small boat near Oxford and spends her summers on the boat and then has it taken out of the water and goes home to the US for the winter. Do any those ideas appeal? 🙂 @@markrant1460
Hi Peter,
It was really good to hear that you seem to have got the bugs worked out of the heater. Thank you for getting back in touch.
Staying warm at our age especially with the dampness you have is important. As for actually owning a boat, or otherwise, is not in the future for me as my partner is not able to travel due to health. So I shall sit back and enjoy listening and watching the boating community drift by and try not to get to home sick lol.
At least my partner and I have had the privilege to live in the back woods of BC and live with memories some would not believe.
Take care and I look forward to seeing more and hearing more.
Mark
Alberta, Canada@@peterodonnell5820
Could you raise the height of the tank.
We can’t raise the tank height as it’s tucked under the gunwale, Julie, but had we known it needed to be higher it could have been addressed earlier. Over time, Peter has learned how to operate the stove and now doesn’t have regular issues with it so perhaps it was human error. I think it takes time and perseverance to get it right. 🙂
I had a old Military pot belly stove that ran on diesel, and cold did affect the fuel flow, so home heating oil was used in the winter it worked better, less jelling of the fuel. 2# I raised the height of the gravity tank ( increased the fuel pressure), and it worked good. 3# the lower I set the stove temp, it was not as cleen burning. This is about a different brand of stove so take the info with a grain of salt. If any part helps, cool. Love your channel ❤️ 💕
Thank you so much for your comment, compliment and for watching. It’s good to hear of your experiences. Peter will no doubt be interested in the points you have made as he is more experienced with the stove than I. Thanks again. 🙂
Hi, thanks for your comments, its good to have a debate about these stoves as a number people I've met have given up on them. I had a number of problems, some of due to my understanding of the stove, but now I'm very happy with it. As to your comments -
#1 Diesel in cold weather. I spoke to someone who has operated a canal fuel boat for many years (Jules Fuels, for those who know them) and they said diesel should be good down to -10C. We don't really see temperatures that low on the canals and my supply tank is on the well deck, protected by the cratch cover and benefiting from warmth from the cabin. I remember having problems with diesel in north Germany when I was in the army. In the winter of 1970/1971 we had -25C several days in a row and I tried to top up a generator from a jerry can that had been outside overnight. I opened to cap and held the can upside down - and nothing came out, it was one big diesel ice lolly! It was fine after a bit of thawing.
My problem with fuel flow when the tank was low seems to have been fixed by adjusting the run of the fuel supply line, and by not letting the tank run too low.
#2 Increasing the height of the supply tank is a good idea, as you say, it increases the pressure. Unfortunately I can't do that, but as I say in point 1, it seems to be working all right now - I just try not to let the supply tank drop below 25% full.
#3 That's interesting about the stove burning differently at different settings. The Refleks stove has two fuel jets for low and high settings. The screws that control them are set in the factory and painted over with something like shellac. Paul from Lockgate Stoves came to check my stove with a temperature reader and discovered that the low level jet was working as it should, but the high jet wasn't making the stove as hot as it should. He adjusted the jet and that fixed it.
Once again, thanks for adding to the conversation!
Another great followup video. Just had my install today. 60l gravity tank. Using a diablo tank
Lockgate Paul and Carl were brilliant.
Now it's test out time..
Typical it's double digits. But glad it's installed and working.
Thanks for the advise too...
Glad you found the video helpful. Good luck with the stove! 🙂
Very interesting and informative about these stoves . I had one fitted and had it taken out a few months later because of the problem in getting it lit.
Thankfully people are starting to ask questions about these stoves..
I’m sorry the stove didn’t work for you. I think our problems are resolved and Peter is more confident about lighting it now. The thought of giving up on it crossed Peter’s mind too but he persisted. 🙂
Hi. Yesterday I had my first real problem with my lockgate conversion on my Morso Squirrel stove.
I always shut my stove off on a Friday and clean it out.
Unfortunately Yesterday was very windy and after a good clean I restarted the fire.
After the 10 minutes on number 2 and the fire was running beautifully.
I turned it it down to number 1
I then had to leave the boat for a couple of hours.
On my return the fire had a small yellow flame in the bottom and the whole fire was covered in a fine soot.
It took hours to clean it all again. I think it wasn't quite warm enough as the wind lowerd the temperature in the stove. As it actually will when it's running correctly.
I have a temperature gauge on my stove and can monitor it.
Fortunately come the evening the wind had died away and I managed to successfully lite it once again.
Will never try to light it in strong winds again.
Peter like you I now use meths to lite my fire. I use a long nosed fire lighter. It helps haveing the safe distance from the explosion 😊
Having spoken to a number of people on the subject of diesel in the winter. You are quite right it can become thicker in cold temperatures and the less diesel in the tank will affect the gravity feed.
I have a 250 ltr mild steel tank and have not as yet had this problem.
I fill my tank every 5 or six weeks.
My tank sits where your tank is but it is from side to side and is 40cm in depth and 45cm in hight.
It doubles up as a long bench for me to sit on.
My cratch area is larger than yours though.
My custom made mild steel tank cost me £800
It was a lot cheaper than haveing a stainless steel tank.
As you said MariAnne on this video. I am pleased with it.
You do have to maintain it but it is far better than coal.
I run my fire permanently on number one only turning it off for cleaning.
Having the back boiler servicing one large radiator in the rear of my boat. I can only guess is the reason for not having to turn the fire up too often. Just on the zero and minus temperatures and then no higher than number 3.
Peter i have never heard from any one else re your situation you had with the tar.
So strange.
Hope it doesn't occur again 🤞
When the sun comes out it becomes very hot in my boat but I resist turning the fire off.
I open doors and windows. I think it helps maintain a constant temperature. Boats do become cold very quickly.
Great review
Thank you both
Gail
Ps missed seeing Flann 🐾
Hi Gail, thanks for all your input. Some updates after the visit from Lockgate;
Diesel can get thicker when it gets really cold, but normally only when the diesel itself is below -10
Celsius.
The black tar occurs when the fuel isn't being burnt properly for some reason and it goes up the flue, creating tar and oily smoke (I forgot to mention that). I'm not sure what started it happening on that one day, I lit the stove and it seemed to be working fine, no build up of soot inside. Then I saw the tar running slowly down the flue inside the boat and went outside and saw the smoke and tar on the chimney. It has only happened once, I cleaned the tar off and the stove has run fine since.
A small adjustment to the curve of the fuel pipe where it comes into the cabin seems to have improved the fuel flow so I have run the tank down to 25% full without any trouble - let's hope that's done it.
@@peterodonnell5820
Hi
🤞 these are teething problems Peter and so next winter we will have the them all ironed out.
Glad Paul came to sort things out for you
As MariAnne said the after service is really good.
Paul came to replace a old lickgate stove for my neighbours today.
At my Marina
They don't live on it and i look after it for them.
So i let him in. I had a chance to chat to him. He so nice and helpful.
Best of luck.
Gail
Thanks for the update on your stove Gail. It’s really good to get other people’s experiences as it puts things into perspective. Really glad your conversion is working well for you. Re Flann, he was curled up on the armchair, enjoying the heat from the stove. I will try to put him in a future video soon. 🙂🐈⬛
I don't know if i missed it, but is it more economical to run than a mixed fuel stove? Great vlog and very interesting, thanks.
Hi Raymond, I didn't specifically comment on costs because the price of diesel has varied quite a bit over the last few months when I've been using the stove. In one cold spell with the regulator up to near maximum I was using approximately 5 - 5.5 litres a day, which cost between £5.50 and £6.50, depending on when and where I bought the fuel. For me, I wanted the cleanness and convenience of a diesel stove so running cost is a secondary consideration, but it seems to be similar to burning the Smokeless Briquettes I used in the old stove.
I must mention one bizarre incident when buying fuel. I went into the marina at a well known central point on the canal network to fill up the separate stove fuel tank, but marina staff said they wouldn't serve me unless I agreed to declare a 60/40 VAT split. I pointed out that a) declaring a split is for the buyer to decide, not the vendor, and b) HMRC are very clear that diesel for domestic heating is Zero Rated, but they wouldn't budge so I left.
@peterodonnell5820 thanks Peter for the detailed reply, well done on sticking to your guns and not being dictated to or bullied. Thanks again.
Thanks for your comment, Raymond, and for watching. Glad you found the video interesting. 🙂
@peterodonnell5820 I recently checked on the split cost and it states even the fuel used to get too and from your mooring when buying diesel for heating is zero rated.
That's interesting! Who knows what the propulsion split is anyway, it varies from boat to boat and depends on what is happening at the time. When I set off in the morning the alternator charging my domestic batteries (zero rated) will be working quite hard, but as the day goes on the charge profile changes and the charge rate may drop from 80amps to 25amps. I also have a Travelpower unit on my engine and that generates up to 3kw at 230vac which I use to charge electrical devices like my pc and vacuum cleaner and it also runs the washing machine. The amount of engine power going to drive those domestic activities varies from minute to minute so the propulsion versus domestic split is only a guess anyway. I really think the authorities are quietly ignoring us boaters anyway because the cost of monitoring the way we use diesel is more costly than any income they may get. I spoke to a manager at a marina recently while I was filling up. She said she dutifully filled in the Declaration forms that boaters sign and filed them fortwo years as per the rules - then threw them away. She has never been asked to present them to HMRC, and she's never heard of anyone else being asked for them.@@andrewbarnard667