Seriously this game is just poorly made, but it’s fun. Similar to a cheesy 80’s slasher. I find it absurd that people think that certain builds are why people don’t play…I made a goofy edit asking on a thread what other killers play with when they just want an easy game. I got so many seething survivor players claiming it’s boring lmao ruclips.net/video/eKrTbrYvXnM/видео.html
Ill put it this way: As survivor, not once have I gotten sent a demeaning or awful message from a killer if I lost. But when I play as killer, every other game I'd get a hateful message if they lost or a narcissistic one if they escaped. Got so frequent that I actually privated my messages to "friends only", something I've NEVER had to do. Survivors seem to attract the sociopaths and narcissists for some reason
Perfect explanation and I agree I once watched my cousin play Michael Myers, he did terrible, was getting spun like every 2 seconds and the survivors knew he was a baby, I was trying not to backseat game so I just laughed and gave advice if he asked for it, everyone escaped and he felt annoyed watching them all teabag at the gate, but he’s a good sport and just said I am a god at the game for having the patience to deal with playing killer. after the game one of the survivors messaged me to tell me to KILL myself just because he did so bad, like.. you all escaped? What’s there to be mad about? I explained my cousin was playing and he’s new, he told me I was lying and me and my cousin sent a voice mail laughing into the mic and saying ggs, (we weren’t being mean, just genuinely laughing) he then proceeded to shout insults at me and threatened to kill me. Definitely my most bizarre experience ever online.
Wish i had this experience as survivor. I play both sides and everyone is equally toxic. Killers will just do the most petty things over the smallest thing. Had someone slug me for 4 minutes at the EGC just because i took a flashlight (for an archive and that i only used once the whole match) and because i didnt just let him down me once he closed the hatch. When i asked him why did he do that he just goes (in russian btw, didnt even bother to reply back in english) "toxic B****, just behave next time" And this happens all the time where killers feel like something you did was "toxic" and take it personally. Glad that when every other survivor is dead and the hatch is closed i can be slugged for 4 minutes during EGC just because the killer is being petty and its not reportable because "its a strategy" and there was literally nothing else i could do about it
I disagree with the "both" From playing plenty of both, I get way WAYYYY more hatemail from survivors. Bitching about tunneling (even when I haven't) or camping, or whatever else nonsense they throw out just bc they died.
@bokcmeatyvstheworld8273 yes, yesterday I played a Myers game and killed everyone within 10 minutes of the game starting, purely luck and got 2 hatemails
That's probably just because there are four times as many survivors than there are killers in a given game. So the chances that you get hatemail from the survivors is going to be at least four times as likely. In practice, since killers tend to hate survivors more than their own teammates, you'd expect to see even more of a gap, more like 1/16 since a killer that sends hatemail is probably not going to message every survivor individually, but just the one that specifically stood out as annoying, while if the survivors want to send mail to the killer, it all goes to the same person.
I am probably late to the party, but I think that killers do not send as much hatemail is because they can vent the frustration in game. They can bleed you out onf the floor, camp you, tunnel you, etc. While survivors can only tbag
You're four times more likely to get at least one message as a killer.. the odds are increased is all, cause you're facing more people. It makes it appear disproportionate when it isn't. You wouldn't believe the amount of messages my friends and I have received from killers going out of their way to either gloat after wining a match or complain about something we didn't do. One grown ass woman was even straight up harassing a 14 y/o, sending him voice messages over and over, telling him to 1v1 her in COD, calling us hackers even though they got a 2k (because noed, they were camping guy at end game, kinda figured they had it and didn't care), but we weren't even pressed. In fact we were laughing our asses off having conversations the entire time. I ended up having to step in to tell her to back off the kid, at which point she starts lying about me telling her to kill herself. It was wild.
I agree that both sides are entitled, though from my experience playing both sides, i believe the 4v1 aspect of the game really exaggerates survivor entitlement, as because they have numbers they believe they are right. Ofc there are some survivors (including me) who call them out on this behavior, but it definitely adds up. Likewise, a general tone for killers complaining is more about the game from my experience, such as blaming items and their strength, while survivors tend to blame the killer player themselves leading to more toxic behavior. This, in combination with my prior point, is why i personally believe survivors are more toxic and/or entitled from my experiences, though both sides have bad actors.
The side that is RELAXED and gives up 5gen 3survivors, and as if thsese FILTH ever try to "SURVIVE". ENTITLED means believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. Nobles, Kings, Queens or whatever are "ENTITLED" from the dawn of Civilization. Why? Because they are free time to dwell PITY TOXIC on those unfortunate ENOUGH. Like King Louis XVI, guess how he met his fate?
@@tiefblau2780 what? you completely lost me- i just said typically survivors feel entitled to directly choose how a killer plays, while killers get more frustrated with the game itself rather than the players from what ive experienced. Both sides are entitled in their own ways, i just think the tone of the survivor side being directed at the player makes for more toxicity.
@@shiverse9868 "Both sides are entitled in their own ways" what now, Do I have to feel sad and sorry that these Filth that they feel Entitled? When from the start the Game was Rigged to make Survivors to feel ENTITLED by Escaping of what Started from "Legendary" Ochido to BM Killers when Escape. LoL And the MonoCell Company where its Nerf or buff depend on division or multiplication. Wesker 40m /2 20m, Iron Will 100%(75%) it isnt even broken. And Ruin....
The way I always looked at this situation is math if you had an entitled salty killer every match but salty entitled survivors 1/4th of your matches then it would be even in terms of numbers but the case with dbd is wether they win or lose survivors either feel entitled to a free win or entitled to a more free win and in most people's experience this is almost every game played as killer I also played both sides survivors were complete pieces of trash 8 of 10 games and killers very rarely acted toxic or entitled so as math goes the entitled toxic side is survivor some say of course there's 4 times the people but the math doesn't even out the numbers even a tiny bit so survivors are the more entitled side this is actually why I quit dbd as killer there's no winning even when you win and as survivor it's just mind numbing easy and boring as hell
10:58 correction blight was "weak" because he was bugged the hell out and had his camera pov on his crotch instead of his neck like every other killer, not because his power doesn't fall in line with the other killers. I think a better example for this segment would've been the Spirit. The spirit got pretty lack luster reception on her ptb, and she get buffs when she finally launched and got several more buffs later down the line. until it power crept her to the point where they had to go in and nerf her every other mid chapter for two years straight until she finally got her rework. shes a better example of the community jumping the gun calling something weak, when she was actually pretty good once people figured out how to use her mechanics.
This happens with every killer and every update there just isn't enough time put in before people start complaining about something they need to learn to play or play against.
HotCross: So, have you guys learned your lesson? Survivor & Killer mains: Yes HotCross: And what lesson is that? Survivor mains: We should nerf Thana Killer mains: We should nerf Prove Thyself HotCross: *sighs in disappointment*
I agree that content creators have an influence over your experience in a game - i’d say at times they have a massive influence. As my time with DBD increases the content creators i watch playing the game has dwindled. I was tired of some content creators take the game too seriously and i realised, subconsciously, i was doing the same and i wasn’t enjoying the game anymore. After changing who i watched play the game i found my love for it grow again - even when in solo queue which i tried to avoid as much as possible in the past. I think a lot of the community needs to become the positivity they wish for the community to be.
This is so true. I have stopped watching certain creators who constantly complain about the game when they lose and instead watch more chill creators who play both sides.
The side that is RELAXED and gives up 5gen 3survivors, and as if thsese FILTH ever try to "SURVIVE". ENTITLED means believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. Nobles, Kings, Queens or whatever are "ENTITLED" from the dawn of Civilization. Why? Because they are free time to dwell PITY TOXIC on those unfortunate ENOUGH. Like King Louis XVI, guess how he met his fate?
Let me ask you this, Which side "CREATED" this Rule book? Which side go on Steam forum to cry their hearts out as if their 2 cent have to matter no matter what? Which side tries to save each other Knowing they have back up plans for 100% escape? And they had to Nerf Noed LoL. Entitled.... Lets say I had someone who "works" for me during the medieval times, and I Spank him because I want to or cause of color or cause of any REASONS. Am I doing work? or am I "Entitled"? I mean for me I have to be there to see my work get done, that in a sense is my WORK and JOB. Like in game the Survivors have to been in the game for "work" to start and the PALLETS EVERYWHERE as if Killer ever need permission to do anything. I WILL END YOU THE WAY I WANT. This game should have been name Survive by Daylight. Its a naming scamm something like the WHO, where it STILL HAVENT PRODUCE VACCINE to cure humanity.
@@tiefblau2780 no wonder you don’t enjoy playing dbd because you take it so seriously - you are also missing the objective of the game itself completely, fun. you’re supposed to have fun whilst playing it, its not a winning simulator or a pissing contest. enjoy the experience of playing the different roles instead of trying to one-up the people you go against. as a player of both sides yes it is frustrating when you go against a 4 swf sweat team but the good often outweighs the bad, i remember a lot more of the games where the survivors in them were particularly funny rather than the ones who were sweaty and got out as soon as possible. you are becoming the very thing you have swore to destroy, entitlement and toxicity. YOU believe YOU have the right to win over others when in reality the game is about having fun, and by the way you are talking about it doesn’t seem that you are having fun playing the game. maybe try taking a break from it until you’ve matured and come to the realisation that it isn’t all about winning and there is still fun to be had if you ‘lose’
Yeah, I have to object on the "Both sides are the most entitled" aspect. I was a player who played both sides, playing pig as my main, and mostly solo que while refusing to use meta perks, and 99% of the time the salt was coming from a surv end game. When a killer did say something against the match, it was usually something about dead hard, and I always agreed that was a dumb perk. Even when I did SWF matches, there were a few members of my team who would complain over comms when things didn't go their way. I honestly quit the game somewhere between Sadako and Blight, and uninstalled it completely because I was sick of survs complaining as much as they did, while at the same time having the most advantages. From what I have seen, killers have been getting some better stuff, and Dead Hard is "easier" to deal with now, but it's still not enough for me to want to return to the game.
To be fair, his video was a bit biased. Killers can be entitled too, but the examples and comparisons he made were not good ones. A survivor complaining about the new DH and a killer laughing at them isn't the same thing. Killers have had to deal with that bs perk, among other ones, for the longest time. Now this killer sided update finally nerfed it, and killers are having fun. This isn't entitlement, this is relief. Entitlement would be if a killer complains about flashlights, Head On or even t bagging imo, but a killer telling survivor to adapt after finally receiving a update in their favour that survivors still managed to adapt to? That isn't entitlement
@@1m073zh I agree with this, the updates recently have remade a lot of perks while keeping them with their original purpose in mind, for example good old Dead Hard, I believe that it is meant to be a perk that awards timing for when the killer attacks by giving you a chance, and the old one had made it to where you didn't need much timing and could use it to vault completely safe and extend the chase. Also some nerfs like for things like decisive made it to where if you got off the hook at end stage and there were other survivors, you could easily body block and escape with the survivor without fear of getting downed, also some reworks were made to properly fit the perk, like overcharge since its meant to be " a trap one must step in"-perk description, without the risk there wasn't much reason to fall into the trap while the killer was nearby but due to it now increasing regression you have to get fall into it with fear of loosing all of your progress.
Honestly when I have too many unfun matches as survivor, I often switch to killer just so Otter people don't have to endure the same for one Match, even if I have to sit in a longer queue
I have gotten a match against a grimy killer (camping at 5 gens, tunneling right off hook) and when I died I literally switched to killer and said "survivors deserve a better class of killers than that" and just played the most honest Ghostie possible. Giving spooks, letting people breathe when unhooked, sometimes farming.
When I first played Killer out of curiosity, I was incredibly surprised that they have a different field of view. And taking this to a different level, I agree with you. The only way to stop that Us vs Them mentality is to have them understand / see the other side. If only you had to play as Killer and Survivor online once before leaving the tutorial, just so people can see how the game feels for each side and maybe be more understanding / reasonable. I always liked how "unfair" DBD is, it makes each match interesting and new. You never get to slack off and be carried by your perks, because you never know what the other players bring! I used to be a surviver main, switched to a casual Killer player because I got so fed up with solo queue surviver. What a great video Gary! Thanks for the impartial voice, the insights on both sides. Again this is very informative but easy to digest, you brought up some points that gave me food for thought outside of DBD
I've been playing both sides since I started playing the game. This made me able to see how tunelling is sometimes needed for the Killer to give him a chance to win. And that gen rushing for survivors is the safest way of winning the game.
I feel the survivor side is more entitled, they constantly complain about everything involving the killer side to a point that it literally changes the game. It’s frustrating and abit annoying. Ontop of that they are extremely sweaty almost all the time while there is more bully squads with clicky lights being absolute scumbags. Its just rude to the killer side and a tad annoying. Ive played both sides and have witnessed first hand how bad survivor side is and how upset they get at killer side for absolutely no reason other then the killer playing smart while the survivors do stupid moves
I've definitely run into asshole killers before, but usually they're just being dicks to be dicks. When they complain, it's usually over the balance of the game or about SWF's and how BHVR never addresses them. The survivor side definitely is more entitled though by a longshot, treating the killer like some DM. I remember when I started letting the 4th survivor go every time I 4ked. I felt good doing it and didn't mind it, until I started seeing survivors complain in my games and in other games why didn't they get hatch if they were the last one? I realized right then and there that I needed to stop giving out hatch for free unless I felt they truly deserved it or I felt particularly bad for them.
Easy answer: Survivor. The side with the most players over the years and the side who's been the most entitled over the years. TTVs especially give survivors a bad rep.
The side that is RELAXED and gives up 5gen 3survivors, and as if thsese FILTH ever try to "SURVIVE". ENTITLED means believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. Nobles, Kings, Queens or whatever are "ENTITLED" from the dawn of Civilization. Why? Because they are free time to dwell PITY TOXIC on those unfortunate ENOUGH. Like King Louis XVI, guess how he met his fate?
@@lil_230 I don't need to watch the video to know the answer. It has always been survivor to be the most entitled. Killers can be entitled too but it's way more common from survivors. Always has been.
@@lil_230 I mean as someone who did watch the video entirely, I disagree with the assessment that both are equally entitled and still say survivors are the most entitled. I've gotten 90% more toxicity directed at me by survivors than by killers regardless of if I've won or lost or if I actually tunneled someone or distributed my hooks evenly. I've quite literally gotten toxicity from survivors *WHILE* playing survivor myself. I've been sandbagged because a teammate thought I dropped shack pallet early when I was trying to go for locker stuns somewhere else, I got snapped at for not letting myself go on hook with two teammates that started being rude to me in pre-game chat and were leading the killer to me the whole game cause of my bio, I got yelled at for not bringing bt, someone was even mad at me cause I was running a goofy build *during the ptb* of all things. Like while I agree killers are very capable of being entitled it has never happened as much as survivor entitlement.
Hi, im a killer main and like playing as Wesker, Legion, Demogorgon, Nemesis, and Ghostface. I'm smart enough to know that not a good player, I get looped all the time and getting a hit off is hard for me, but I still love the game(not the map, pallet town).
I feel like it’s survivor since they think there supposed to be the power role. A lot of games where a survivor disconnects when they are down for the first time ruining the experience for the rest of the team. I’ve also seen more toxic survivors than toxic killers in my years of playing DBD.
yeah i agree. When they get downed they DC. Or even purposely killing themselves on hook to skew the stats for devs to get their meta changed back. I saw survivors be more toxic even tho they beat the killer easily. Like there were games I got smoked. But they all just enjoyed tbagging and clicking me. And in 1 game, there was just one guy that was ruining my game. I decided to stare at the corner as he clicked behind me to get my attention and when he saw I didnt budge, he actually DC'd. Whether survivor wins or loses, they tend to be toxic. Not all, but a majority. Also I feel that toxic killers are like an after effect of toxic survivors. In my experience, I know a toxic bully squad would get in my head, and the unfortunate next survivor crew pays the price for the previous one. I of course avoid being toxic, because thats a very negative state of mind. I like to play normally or sometimes be the friendly killer that goofs around, while rarely playing surv for daily or tome. But even from my survivor experiences, sure there are some killers who camp and tunnel, but i dont see those killers mocking the suvivors in post game chat or be salty if they lose. They just say gg and move on.
As a killer main who plays survivor every now and then, I’ve gotta say that they’re both pretty balanced, with both having their own strengths that makes them great to play. My problem is that people who play survivor are toxic as all h*** for no reason. Sure, killers can be toxic too, but most of the time when I see a killer do something that everyone else would consider toxic, I see it as the killers doing their jobs (trying to prevent my escape). But when I see a survivor teabag me at the end of a trial, the game immediately goes from them doing their job (trying to escape) to them just being mean.
I play mostly survivor, but sometimes killer and survivor mains have the biggest group of toxic players. I only really get upset when killers start the match with tunneling and camping in mind - cause then ur just playing for being mean and to ruin somebodys game, I see this as equal to going in full bully squad. But when playing killer u usually get t-bagged at the gate, sometimes even at the first pallet stun. I try to play killer as fair as possible unless they make stupid moves, cause free hit. But if they get toxic with me, haha then its game on to killing that player
If youre getting gen rushed or falling behind struggling to maintain pressure then sure, tunnel out a player to get back the pressure. That is a strat, when you tunnel out a player at 4-5 gens, then its just to be a d, aint no way around it @@MrVIrginiaLUV
I love this video! I've been trying to explain this to a particularly entitled friend, and this video is exactly what I've been trying to say, with much more elegance. Also, because playing both sides helps develop empathy for the other side, it also makes you better at playing both sides - a killer main who plays some survivor can predict perks and strategies easier, and vice-versa.
Very well-thought-out and comprehensive take on DBD as a whole. We do need to spend more time understanding and reflecting on the other side. I know I need to. As a survivor main, I need to stop expecting the killer should give hatch if I am the last survivor and as a killer, I need to take into consideration my game play so as to not play in a manner that creates and breeds contempt.
I started playing DBD last October and began to gravitate towards the killer side quite early on, as I wanted to challenge myself and was afraid of going into solo queue because I got bullied by a friend of a friend during a customs match. Since then, I’ve gotten a fair few of my friends into DBD, and almost all of them have gravitated towards the survivor side of the game. One of my friends, who plays quite a lot as a survivor main (but has never touched killer in a public match), is able to look more reasonably at the difficulties killer mains face, and not only because I talk to her about them. Likewise, as I’ve begun to play more solo queue survivor, I’ve begun to understand survivor struggles, and I have genuine interest of the gripes on both sides. I think what gets me, though, is whenever either side is just mean about it. I just had a match like this last night where I found it incredibly difficult to be sympathetic. All match, Felix would run in front of me, or run out in the open, or run to more desirable tiles. I was playing Blight, who I am not very good at as far as understanding his power. I’m getting better, but I’m nowhere near Blight main territory. Even though I didn’t hard tunnel (he lived), he complained in the endgame about being tunneled, and when I, confused, pointed out that he survived, his teammate chimed in, claiming that it “didn’t matter” that he lived because I “still tunneled.” Even though I pride myself on being a generally calm and positive person, I found it very hard to be positive towards those players after that, even though I had no problems with how the game went previously (1k, 3 man escape, which I was okay with because, as I said, I’m very much still a baby Blight). It’s sad that those moments can ruin my night, especially because I had many positive experiences that night.
i play both sides though for content creation i have to do survivor cause its easier & funnier for the audience that way if a killer be's incredibly toxic or a survivor being toxic to a survivor/killer in a match i will ask them why they did it some will answer with a good reason a the others will answer with insults instead of being civil a common answer is "survivor: i wanted to gain their attention/ killer: they were spamm clicking their flashlight/tea bagging or were really annoying "
When I was a killer main I use to be very entitled, believing survoirs were just crybabies . Then I started playing survivor with my sister who's very good at survivor. I realized its alot harder than I thought . Especially solo que
The ending is a copout! Joking aside, the main issue is probably due to the fact that some players, both killers and survivors, don't care about the other side. They literally see their opponents as toys who need to play their role or be punished, or buy into the commonly repeated rhetoric. Another issue stems from the fact so many lust for the mythical "True balance" a legendary realm where both killer and survivor are balanced when that is literally impossible. Both due to the very nature of the game and that different people have different thoughts on what balanced is. Some survivors think decent coordination leading to a win is balanced, some want to literally one V one the killer. I think this kinda coalesces around a recent debate I saw about whether or not killers should get FOV options or not. Where many vehemently stand by the idea that it'd be abused and be too much of a competitive advantage and those who get motion sick can get bent. Meanwhile survivors get to queue together and be on comms to accommodate people wanting to play with friends, which I think is perfectly reasonable, but I also think it's reasonable that a handful of visual degrees that killers can mess around with isn't a game breaking feature, well no more game breaking than comms on a game not made for comms. But maybe I'm just crazy. In the end, a lot of players take the game too seriously, and the game is then balanced in a serious way when any kind of equilibrium is basically impossible to truly attain, as there will always be someone somewhere feeling cheated by something in DbD. Perks, certain killers, certain addons, flashlights, SWFs. I've always felt DbD should become more casual, insanely casual and quicker paced so most semblance of balance is ignored in favor of fun. Replace hook states with lives, let both survivors and killers go crazy so total domination isn't the immediate "win" condition at first glance. But the core of DbD is pretty set in stone, as not only would it need a big overhaul which might be difficult after seven years of updates, that's also seven years of identity. Doubt any game could change so drastically after so long. Really, any major change will be met with anger. Even something as simple as changing Dead Hard sent people into a tizzy, so I don't doubt BHVR is hesitant to change things too much. Imagine if another killer got the Freddy treatment nowadays, completely changing their kit so they're nearly unrecognizable. But it just seems like DbD is doomed to harsh peaks and valleys and eternal othering. I suppose you can't really find balance when the game can't be symmetrical. But, great video, even if the ending is a copout. I really wanted an up and coming content creator to tell me which side is TRULY the most entitled and then contrast my bias against them! /s
Survivors create imaginary rules for killers, while killers are expected to go in a game and go along with everything the survivors do. Obviously there are toxic killers out there but I cannot accept there being the slightest debate about killers being anything close to the survivor entitlement.
@@TheHotCross Made up rulebook that causes toxic rants in endchat or verifiable PROVEN survivor tactics that get all gens done in 5 minutes. Yeah that's not a good comparison, if RUclipsrs like you ever got off the fence maybe you'd be worth listening to
@@dirkechoes1377 You are an excellent example of why I consider killer mains as whiney as their survivor counterparts 😂 "I can't believe this RUclipsr doesn't agree with me 100%! WAAAAAAH" 😂
Love these looks into the DBD community. aha I'd argue there are 3 comps though. "Killer main, survivor main, solo/random" as the solo/random are typically alienated by both. its the 1 time killer and survivors agree, If a killer knows you're the 1 random, they're likely to target you first as you have no friends to back you up, paired with(and you can see this in some streamers who mainly SWF) the "they aren't in our group, don't die for them" mentality.
Great video! This was something that me and my small circle had discovered a while ago, in reference to the solution. So its nice to see someone put this into an easily understood format, and I personally hope this video blows up so the community as a whole can grow together and change. You said it yourself, we all love Dead by Daylight. We ARE the Dead by Daylight Community. Together! My only suggestion moving forward in other videos would be to increase those blurrs or black out completely on Twitter users or people youre trying to "hide." Guaranteed I talk to/follow almost all of them, but I knew who each of those statuses were despite the blurr, as the profile pictures and names were easily legible.
@@TheHotCross Agreed! Nothing bad at all! Just wanted to point it out. I did something similar on one of my videos till someone pointed out they still knew who it was 😅😂
Love when you explore the psychological aspect of players! Also its easy to tell which tweets belong to a certain big streamer. Always like hearing your thoughts! Keep up the good work!
While both sides can be very entitled, I can't help but sense a bit of bias in this video. You mentioned yourself how the update was killer sided and killers sat with glee at it. I agree that it is the most killer sided, but that wasn't glee from killers because numbers show for years a decline in killer players. This isn't an example of killer entitlement, this is frustration. Survivor queues were long whereas killer queues were almost instant, this is because no one had interest in playing killer. DbD even tried to address this by giving killer more BPs. Hell, the fact that survivors managed to adapt 'shockingly fast' to the update shows that it wasn't a bad one in most aspects, that it was a needed update for the better. Obviously killer mains did have a good laugh at survivors because everything got nerfed, but it was mostly deserved. Most people don't play S tier killers, so imagine the regular frustration just by playing your fav killer. Even you made a point of how you're having more fun as Pig, a really bad low tier killer by everyone's standards before this chapter and her update. Killers are arguably the most frustrated side here, if not for any of these reasons then for one reason - All survivors are the same, yet all killers aren't. Regardless if you play Laurie or Cheryl, you can still use the same perks and have the same playstyle - there is no difference. However I'm sure we can all agree that there is a big difference between someone like Blight and someone like Trapper. Killers complaining about Head On, flashlights, sabos, t bagging - that is entitlement, expecting people not to do or use those things because it upsets them. But killers being happy about a chapter that made killers way more enjoyable and better all in all, that nerfed arguable busted perks on the survivor side? That isn't entitlement, it's relief
I mean "obviously killer mains did have a good laugh at survivors" is the glee I am referring to regarding the update, even I giggled a bit at survivors reactions so, seems senseless to deny it. I think you've taken my point alluding to killer player's hypocrisy as part of their entitlement which it's not. I'm just pointing out that everyone complains about everything in DbD from various perspectives, which is ok, but when you start "othering" people because of it, that's the unhealthy element. But I do appreciate your points, I am extremely happy overall that killer is more enjoyable atm! Maybe some of my own points in the video could have been clearer which I'll try to do in the future.
Killers complaining about awfully toxic behaviour from the other side, things like t-bagging and fleshlight clicking is NOT entitlement. It's pointing out the wrong doing of BHVR to not ban/punish people for misbehaving.
@@Luna-Starfrost What's so wrong about it? It's part of the game, and I understand perfectly that it can be very annoying but it is part of the game. It's a frustration tactic, the same thing as voice lines and emotes in other games. If you let it frustrate you, you will lose because you will make mistakes. If you keep your cool tho you'll find that by trying to be rude they end up fucking themselves over
@@Luna-Starfrost Think about it, anyone who is tea bagging is not making any distance. Someone who is clicking at you is not doing any gens, by doing that they make it so that it's free pressure, like chasing 2 survivors at once. Personally I find teams who don't bm at all way more difficult to handle than teams who are constantly clicking and bagging me
After seeing the replies on Twitter to the second CoH nerf survivors will always be the more entitled side to me. Killers' response to 6.1 to me was simply killers having their fun with the shoe being on the other foot after years of survivors using same incredible strong perks every game rather than any form of entitlement. It is pretty funny though how you show several tweets from arguable the most famous entitled killer main.
While it is true that there was a resurgence in tunnelling and camping since the update, there was a much larger resurgence of dc's, from survivers due to the game having the first ever killer sided update, not only that but the amount of hackers is substantially more in survivors.
What a lame answer. Just because both sides can be entitled, doesn’t mean one side isn’t louder than the other. It’s a fact that there are more survivor players than there are killers, so clearly the more entitled side are the survivors
Thinking one side is any worse than the other may suggest a bias, which is kind of the point of my video tbh. One side isn't worst than the other, there are entitled people in both camps and we maybe need to pay them less attention is my point of view.
I agree for the most part, though I think the entitlement from side to side presents differently. In killer it's usually centered around blaming items, perks or a map for their losses and disregarding all of their mistakes. While there is always an argument that certain things are too strong, sometimes this argument becomes disingenuous off an overestimation of their own skill. Typically these killers don't go out of their way to whine in endgame chat, but instead direct their complaints to the forums. In survivor, however, I've found their entitlement and anger is more often than not directed at other players rather than the game itself. Either berating the killer for the way they played or calling their teammates bad and blaming other people for their loss is the norm among these players, and the perception that survivors are "more" entitled comes from the fact that their entitlement is more visible since they are directly lashing out at others rather than game balance.
7:55 that reminds me of a wraith game I had, was going for adept but unfortunately didn’t get it that game, one person playing ace had ran into me while I was chasing someone else at the beginning of the game and got downed in a few seconds since I left the other person who was good at looping, as soon as they went down they DC’d, 5 gens with very little progress against 3 survivors. They did what they could and got to 3 gens before it was the last person, who also ended up dying. I’m the post game chat the ace was calling one of the other survivors bad for running a totem cleansing build instead of focusing on gens (this other person was the last person alive and did one of the 2 gens completed) imo they did the most for the team and since they didn’t know what perks I was using could have easily had noed and was cleaning all totems in case they could get the gates open after the hatch is closed. Getting annoyed at your team as surv is one thing if you are doing a lot and your team is hiding in corners doing nothing, but when you are the person who leaves in the first minute of the game, then get mad at your team for being bad than doing better than you did. Some people. Edit: to clear some confusion that I felt reading it may cause, the ace DCd when they went down, but didn’t actually leave the game, they stayed in the end game lobby just to call others bad at the end
When I play Dbd as either killer or survivor, I feel different things while playing. As survivor i love the new meta and i think in general it's a bit more fun. Yes i do get tunneled a few times but I am rarely camped. As killer, i sometimes feel like a masochist. Because I face survivors who are stacked with OTR and Adrenaline. And after a few loses i face potatoes. It's a bit of a mixed bag. But I will say that the game is in a better state than it was one year ago. I love this game as a horror enjoyer and i have seen some funny things, and i have had fun playing dbd with my friends.
Playing both roles is fun. Survivors with my friends and trying to escape the killer and as killer trying to hook them all.. But sometimes it is frustating playing as killer whenever I see all survivors escaped due to the mistakes I did during the match..
The frustrating thing about killer is that your mistakes can compound to lose the game. Survivor frustration, meanwhile, depends on your team's combined mistakes leading to a snowball for the killer, or the way the killer chooses to play. Playing survivor solo Q can feel helpless if your team is significantly below the killer and your skill level.
It is very interesting take, however, the "play both sides" is not really a cure unless everyone would do that and leave their bias behind. People who play both sides are often disregarded by both camps, mocked even. I believe it is due to disbelief that anyone really plays both sides, or suspicion that person is straight up lying "insert side here" main. So, what we are dealing with are two camps that are not only entitled as hell, but also very, very paranoid.
I think the solution might be: play both sides and instead of assuming the worst. Gather up several reasons why someone is doing a certain action. Such as, a killer is camping because they want to win or they see every survivor near. However, coming up with these reasons does not mean it is fact because you don't know everyone's thinking or perspective. Conclusion, try to understand reasons, but don't assume your reasons is the reason why someone is playing in a particular way. Because you aren't that person, but yourself.
The funniest thing I experienced about them bringing back Dead Mans Switch and Pain Resonance was that BHVR mentioned that the choice was either Dead Mans Switch or Merciless Storm when a Survivor could experience a potential 40+ skill checks due to how the 2 worked with one another and Dead Mans was by far the easiest one to deal with from a survivors perspective
The video was well spoken. But as the comments have said. Surely the survivors are indeed more entitled. Mostly because of pure numbers possibly. No point in sugar coating it. I've had a survivor back me up in chat against his teammates. And that meant more than 100 entitled chats from others. (Don't say nothing if you have nothing nice to say) is a good option with this game. Hence it is just a game guys.
It's not really about the number of players on either side, more about the attitudes they share but I see where you're coming from and I 100% agree, too many players take the game too seriously and fly off the handle in any post game chat!
That was a nice video my good sir. I especially agree with the part with the Dunning Kruger Effect : often when you read DBD's forum, you'll see some people complaining from a "broken aspect" from the other side, and by reading it, you can clearly see they never play that side and have no clue of how it plays. You have to play both side to understand that many "broken mecanics" of the game are in fact, not broken at all. And it goes for both survivors and killers.
This video is great. It shows both sides of the arguments, shows reasons and gives good proof for his arguments. Great work m8! Speaking of mid-patch. Before it was released i played much more killer than survior, after mid patch i decided to try to play survivor with new deadhard, prove thyself to help teammates, borrowed time, and no one left behind and after I tried the New dh i loved it. It was much harder to use, but used correcly gave much more distance to you and your team of you decided to bodyblock with it. After changes are made, community needs time to exacly see the issues. Imidiate changes are not healthy in any game, but slow changes are bad too. The killer buffs were nice, but I must say that longer gens are noticeable. Basekit changes are hard to do, if there are unbalanced perks that can abuse these. Overall i think mid patch was a good change and it really shown who is willing to adapt to the New things. Changing topic to wesker. I played him on ptb and on live. He is not weak, but severaly limited by his bugs. If behaviour fixes bugs, tweaks collision detection (his enviroment detection is almost perfect, just a small decrease), but survivor collision is 2 small (it's smaller than killer himself). In the end if the buggy surfaces and elevation issues are fixed he will be (propably) the most fun killer to play as and against, but I the end, it is just my lengthy opinion.
Meanwhile me, running Jeff with no exhaustion perks + a bunch of team play aura/heal/protection perks and trying to give killer his 4K + Hatch if I'm the last one left/Trying to get 2 hooks on everyone and then just chase them around and slug them until the exit gets powered up so I can let them out (and somehow still getting pips to climb, consistently). Just trying to chill with my backpack Wesker build, chasing survivors around while I carry my new best friend on my shoulder. Hearing about people supposedly claiming the game is being ruined, because of perks I rarely/never used. Could be worse.
I get both survivor and killer to red rank 1 every month I wouldn't call myself a main of either. I do have more fun playing killer but survivor feels like it takes a lot less effort most of the time, I think people are just way too close minded with this game and more people should try both sides because you can definitely get an upper hand in the game knowing how the other side works and can predict how they're going to play or what they'll do next
I'd say Survivors are the most entitled. They're always sore winners and losers, create Bully Squads, DC when Killers outplay them in a way that deprives them of RUclips content, rage at Lightborn, cry about Dead Hard nerfs, and never shut up about Nurse. Anything a Killer does that could be considered toxic brings them closer to getting a 4k win condition. Survivors teabagging, pointing, clicking flashlights, etc doesn't advance them any closer to victory. They do it simply to troll the Killer. Yes, Solo Que angels do exist. Does that absolve all that other behavior? Absolutely not. So, Killers are trying to win, Survivors are there to either win as well, or simply to torment a singular human being.
@@1m073zh i play both sides alot(mostly leaning towards killer) and have grown to hate nurse exactly because of that. bhvr added 8m extra TR to deathslinger because he was too stealthy with monitor and abuse, yet nurse gets the special treatment of the perks good for her being nerfed instead.
I always hesitate on playing dbd much nowadays due to how rude or toxic people can be in the end game. No one wants to be told to kys for playing how you want to. I see it happen on both sides and its disappointing. we should focus on trying to get people to be a little more positive at the end game. Whether a simple gg or maybe some solid tips on how to improve as that killer or how to counter something the killer did.
I am a killer main so I probably don’t have the full view others might have, but in my opinion survivors are the most toxic. I’ve tried to play survivor and the very first time I tried I was killed pretty fast. Not because of the killer, but because I soloed qued and got stuck on a team that had three people in a party. They then proceeded to not only bully the killer, but also me. They would body block me any chance they got, purposely fail skill checks on the gen I was working on, and letting me stay on the hook and teabagging in front of me. Suffice to say that left a very bad taste in my mouth. I’ve tried again later but I was killed pretty quickly. Wasn’t a big deal to me, but apparently to my teammates I was satan incarcerated. They messaged me and kept threading and trying to insult me, so I reported one of them that was the worst. Well, turned out he got banned so he got his friends to threaten me even more that they were gonna find me and r*p* and kill me. I proceeded to report them both and block them. I haven’t played as survivor since.
As always, your narration is fantastic! It's fascinating to hear a bit of the psychology that relates to it all. If you ever branch out your narration to other types of videos, I could really see it working well for SCP or cryptid type videos.
It's like Vanripper(creator of Helltaker) said in one of his streams, paraphrasing here "People that know their flaws will get better because they know their mistakes, people that are oblivious on their flaws will only get worst”
holy shit someone made a video that ACTUALLY addresses the issue, I wish this video had more views seeing as this is the only video I've seen that actually explains the problem extremely well and gives as much context as needed to prove your point.
As someone who plays both roles? Pretty much on the spot. On Killer side, Prove Thyself is a bane perk because you never know which Survivor has it roughly. As such, you can lose because you chased the wrong Survivors and didn't know until the results screen. On the flipside, being facecamped just because of the wrong place at the wrong time on the Survivor Side or getting that one Survivor player on your team who ends up creating frustrations and hurdles for you unintentionally never feels good. I empathize with both sides because it is frustrating to lose because of what feels like bad luck, and bad luck really exacerbates this mentality both sides feel
I’m not sure how its hard for some to grasp, but lets lay everything down on the table. You can pull a Schrodinger’s cat and say both sides are both equal and unequal in entitlement, but thats ignoring the one thing about DBD thats at its core: its an Asymmetrical style survival game. Its always has and always will be a game of 4 v 1, so it’s literally impossible to say that the game isn’t balanced around survivor’s because if it wasn’t there would be no game (ie why play Survivor when killer’s “win” 90% of the time). The game wouldn’t be fun if a Survivor has absolutely no chance of escaping. This isn’t to say both sides can’t or aren’t entitled or that the game is 100% in Survivors favor (I’m not here claiming Nurse isn’t a problem lol) but its a 1:4 ratio for every game meaning statistically killers will meet 4 “toxic” survivors before a Survivor meets one “Toxic” killer. Plus harping back to the game being designed to be survivor sided, it would increase the odds of their entitlement since survivors by all means have the necessary tools to escape. With that said (as a Killer Main) people like True are terrible in solidifying victimhood for Killers, and I hate that his opinions are generally what are used by Survivors as Examples of how Killer’s act. The entitlement of DBD isn’t 50:50, but certain Killers definitely aren’t free from that title
As always, an excellent job Gary. You put so much work in these and I hope more can see these videos. Empathy would go a long way to helping the experience in dbd.
The RPD map will always be bad cus it's a indoor map with one gate. I say this as a player who's plays both sides and hate no matter one side I'm playing.
Absolutely amazing, I loved the points stated and how you basically backed it up with psychology. I wish there was some solution for entitlement but alas the most entitled speak the loudest no matter what side you look at
Honestly, I absolutely despite this "Us vs Them" mindset.... I really do. Do I admit to be a part of it? Yes, to an extent. I'm a survivor main, but i play killer also. So I know what it can be like from both sides and I respect that. What I absolutely hate is when you just try to say "gg" to someone and they're rude about it, whether they won or lost. Are there perks or items that are overpowered on survivor side? Oh yeah. Are there perks or add-ons that are overpowered on killer side? Definitely!!! But what most people don't realize is that it's all on the player. Not the items or perks.... If you can't use the perk the way it's meant to be used, then it's no longer good for YOU. Stupid example of myself: I'm horrible at looping. I'm horrible at blinding. So a flashlight is useless to me. I only collect them for friends. But I LOVE maps! Specifically Rainbow maps. Many think they're useless, much like keys (which are useless until you put certain add-ons on it and make it an aura reading tool instead) but they provide SO MUCH information! And depending on the add-on, they can be shared with other players too! But then going to the killer side: I've played Nurse once for a daily to try to see if I could handle her. Well range add-ons are useless for me because I can't really use Nurse. But for other people, they're meta beyond meta. Every single perk, item, and add-on in this game (including offerings) is all based on how YOU use them. You just have to find what works for you and stop insulting the other side. Are there certain perks we hate on either side? For sure. But just because we hate them doesn't mean they won't be used. Because it works for THAT player, even if it doesn't work for you. Like me, I love Lightborn because I get blinded so much. But I have a friend that absolutely despises it and is one of the reasons they'll DC. Do I think that's stupid? Oh yeah. But I'll run Lightborn no matter what because you don't know what survivors will get from chests. Like-wise, I love Blast Mine (pre-recent-nerf) and it was one of the very few ways I could get blinds on killers. Do I think the nerf ruined it? Def. But I have to just move on with it because I can't change it. So I gotta find a different perk or item to use or just adjust to the way it is. We can't change anything and our negative voices will only reach so far to the developers..... (sorry if none of this made any sense. i'm barely awake but commenting my opinion on this)
I used to play survivor a lot and I was super toxic but after playing and getting good at killer I learned how hard it can be. Now the only time I am ever toxic is if the killer or survivor is being toxic.
People just need to learn that its a game, sometimes i get entitled then i need to take a step back, im a killer main but i have played survivor and looping isnt easy to learn, cause its a timing thing, which takes time to master, its a cat and mouse game, both sides complain i find it humorous on twitter, but i dont really run into it in game, yes tbags and stuff but thats not inherently toxic, just in game banter which is normal for humans
Once again your analysis is spot on to be honest. I have always considered myself a survivor main (as I have certainly played more survivor), however, I try my hardest not to fall into a survivor vs killer mindset. In truth, I have an incomplete analysis of even the survivor side as I will only play survivor when at least one of my friends is online, despite having 1.4k hours (and being around since 2016), I have probably played in the single digits of solo queue matches. I have played killer as well though (especially recently) and can see why killers do what they do when I'm playing survivor. Sometimes I even come to the killer's defense in the end game chat if someone is complaining about something that was totally reasonable. But despite being a survivor main, I have always thought, and still do, that survivor is the strongest role, but this perspective may be because I only play in a SWF. Only in recent times have a seen a heavy push that survivors are victims, though perhaps this depends on the corners of the internet that you have been on, and survivor victimization has been around for longer than I thought (It probably has been around in small doses but not in full force like it is now). In truth, killers have had it quite hard in certain eras of the game, but I still don't think they were victims or being punished by BHVR, it was simply a lack of ability to perfectly balance a game like DBD. When it comes to the Us vs. Them mentality, I think I am somewhat guilty of this, but not between survivors and killers, but between casual players and competitive players. In DBD, and many other games I play, I have always advocated for the casual playerbase, and disregard, belittle, and attack the competitive playerbase. Now I do this for good reason in my view, but I still recognize that I am fermenting a Us vs Them mentality. Further, and while this may seem hypocritical, I think shifting the Us vs them from being survivor and killers, to being casual and competitive players (and by competitive players I don't necessarily mean tourney players, but those that prioritize winning over fun) would help the overall toxicity of the community and perhaps make the community better. I say this because competitive players do, through apathy or malice, make the game worse for casuals by stomping them into the dirt and suggesting changes that make the game less fun for casuals. Beyond this, the competitive player base is much smaller (despite them inhabiting both roles) than the survivor and killer player base, and losing them would not hurt the playerbase all that much and in fact may help the playerbase grow with a shift to a more casual atmosphere that DBD has and should always foster.
Dead by daylight is a game of chance, rng. If people cannot adapt to the randomness, their enviroment and/or killer and their perks, as well as the situation, they complain. Since they cannot maintain control and have it their way, they just whine and refuse to change.
I only needed to see the title of the video to know what the answer to this question. Hands down and without a shadow of a doubt, it is the survivor side that's the most entitled of the two. Aside from the fact that they are toxic even to their fellow survivor teammates, it's clearly visible that a huge chunk of this player base wants to have the balance tilt to their favor at all times, and that's just in-game mechanics, I haven't even touched on the fact that they can get a massive advantage outside of the game by using comms from servers like discord to coordinate their "strategies" against the killer, while the player opposing them has no way of countering that "perk" because that's an advantage they use outside of DBD. I can hear it already "But killers have toxic perks like blood favor and Franklin's demise" and that's supposed to be that way because it is one killer against 4 survivors who may be running 4 different sets of builds to get out of the game, and the killer only gets one set of 4 perks to respond against 4 sets totaling 12 perks. Gen rushing still is a nightmare to deal with on the killer side, and movement speed is a joke because at best, killers get 5% haste for about 15 seconds (excluding machine learning, which grants 30 seconds as long as the conditions are met), but survivors can get movement buffs between 3 to 7 percent that can last them the entire match without having a challenging barrier of entry. Also, it is almost obvious that a large base of the survivor community is strictly in the game to abuse the mechanics of the game, harass (not annoy) the killers, and play to win as if this game was built to be competitive when in reality...this game is the equivalent of Mario party. Survivors always, and I mean always, talk about the "fairness and balance" of the game...which is something I've never once heard a killer main complain about...not ever! That's some made up idea from the survivor side that makes no sense and plagues a game where there are 4 people going up against just one. The fact that this game is asymmetrical should be enough of a warning sign to those looking for "fair and balance", but it's not, and instead they cry and moan about how even the trapper's speed for setting traps is unbalanced...I wish I was kidding about this one. Killer's main entitlement issue feeling targeted by both the survivors as well Behaviour. Every time a perk on the killer side gets nerfed, it feels like a targeted attack on from Behaviour to appease the cries from survivors that claim there's no "fairness in DBD". Don't believe me? Then...call of brine, overcharge, pain resonance, eruption (this one got it twice), and even ruin got nerfed to the point of almost being useless strictly because survivors wanted them to be this way so they could "get a leg up" in the game (despite the fact of a 4 v 1 and a chunk of that player base using comms). How long did it take prove thyself to get nerfed after the killer perks I just mentioned got their nerf? The answer to this question has no contest and I'll say it again. the survivor side is far too entitled for its own good, and this is something they do to themselves. Want a "balanced" DBD game? Let a 2nd killer enter the lobby, and since comms are a thing survivors use outside of DBD to get coordinated, I don't see why two killers can't do the same thing. Feel free to talk about "fair and balance" in an asymmetrical game then.
Both. Im a survivor main. I have caught myself DCing because the game didnt go my way. I try not to do this anymore and say gg after every game, even if its bad. I think someone like Otz should decide things like this.
As soon as I saw this video, I told one of my Discord friends that follows this game: "My money's on 'Both'." Glad to see I called it. Me personally, I'm glad videos like this are out there, because I do want the ability to go into a match and not feel like it's an instant loss because of the map I spawned in on, but that's an issue I think both survivor and killer players can agree on. Actual gameplay, I'll do what I can to try not to play 'sweaty', because if people want to sweat, I might not entirely enjoy playing against that, but I do recognize that some people have their fun pushing themselves to those limits. That's just not me. In the future, now that I've poured officially 1,000 hours into this game, I'll try and focus more on the why since there's more to it than 'Me play meta because it make my winrate go up' for either side.
i can't comment to whether there's really an entitlement on either side because i enjoy the game as an outsider viewing dead by daylight purely as a spectator... though, from that perspective i think it's difficult to say if one side is more entitled than the other... i watch dead by daylight regularly on twitch through streamers like yourself, attackamasha, johnwolfe, spookyloopz and runningman and while i don't play the game myself i feel as though i've consumed enough of it to at least form an opinion... i think there's clear examples of entitlement on both sides, for example each update that comes out is going to speak to one role more than the other and create a divide within the community player base... perks are modified to either help or hinder either side further feeding into the feeling of entitlement... survivors being given more skins than killers or vise versa feeds into the feeling of entitlement and favoritism... i think the developers potentially worked to create a sense of competition through these means but may have in a sense backfired and become the basis of player entitlement that the community has picked up and ran with... amongst that it feels as though with the survivors their are two subsets, again simply from the perspective of a viewer... those being one group that essentially want to get into a match and attack generators, run loops and have a challenging but FUN match and understand that a killer can be challenging AND fun / enjoyable at the same time, those players typically seem to be chill in post chat with a "gg" for example... the other subset seem to be those who want the killer to allow generators to pop and if they hook anyone it's tunneling and HOW COULD YOU!... basically the asshats, or anyone you would generally encounter on overwatch... and it's really the same for killers... there are two kinds... the killer who enjoys a balanced game where the chase is the objective and if they win, great! but if not that's fine too as long as it was a fun game where people aren't relentlessly teabagging and being jerks that's all that really matters... or you get nurses and pinheads... which is why i feel it's hard to say that one side is more entitled over the other, it's shades of grey... i feel like for the most part the majority of games i see are balanced and people just want to enjoy the game but it's the minority that are heard the loudest... but again, i don't play the game myself, i purely spectate but my experience with the game, i feel largely due to who i experience the game through is generally quite positive, so you know.. i don't know how valid any of that is lol... that said, i thoroughly enjoy and look forward to these videos... great job again gary!
Killer main here. I mostly main Michael Myers because based on add-ons you can completely change the type of meta gameplay of the match. There seem to be entitled players on both sides, but entitled players seem to gravitate to being survivor mains. I've got about 2k hours in the game so I'm not on Otzdarva or similar players levels, but I'm definitely better than bot players. It's interesting you bring up the Dunning Kreuger effect because it's been my experience that only midwits tend to do that and they don't seem to understand it applies to them as well. That said, I'm definitely what many survivors would call toxic because I don't use the Survivor Rulebook when I am making meta decisions during a match. However I'm not toxic in how I personally view players like SpooknJukes are. If I play toxic, I expect survivors to send me mean messages and cry and complain as they tend to attract more entitled players. I'd never suggest someone be banned because of the content of the messages they send. Trash talking is a staple of online play.
Well it's 7.0.0 and I'm gonna be honest; I did leave DBD when Demo left the game as a Killer Main, got busy with life, didn't get hurt by the game. Then I came back and became a Survivor main in Japan, because the community was too crazy as a survivor so I hopped on board due to unbelievable survivor skill and learned. Then I left again when Dead hard died, not due to dead hard, just got bored. Now I'm back again as a Killer main, but I also enjoy Survivor and tbh; I think people just need a break from the game and come back fresh faced to a different main. So then overtime it'll become more friendly. Tho at the same time, dead hard isn't that bad tbh; I still use it as Survivor and I'm high mmr. Tho killer is getting slightly easier, but survivor feels a little more enticing to play with different builds now . Idk, it seems people gotta stop being entitled to a certain main and switch it up or take a break; it's good for the soul
As someone who is inexperienced at the game, plays both sides, and doesn’t know the meta nor pro strats and all, I didn’t mind the update at all. I just saw it as a way to try new things. Although change is rough to deal with, I already play DBD for fun, so I wasn’t concerned with taking the changes seriously. Sadly, a friend of mine didn’t see it the same way, and had actually both quit the game and gone on to negatively review the game on Steam just because of it. This video definitely helps me understand his reasoning better, but it still just confuses me on why it was such a big deal for both him and others. Sure, there’s times to take the game seriously, but it’s not worth quitting a game you’ve poured hundreds of hours and dollars into just because of stubbornness to not change. The odd thing is that he plays killer more than survivor, so he theoretically should’ve liked this update. But I guess things change. At least, even if I don’t have a buddy for survivor anymore, and I’m now forced to solo queue, I’m still having fun doing whatever I want. Shame that both my friend and others don’t always share this mindset.
Survivors are more toxic, and this is coming from a surv main. I’ve had many times where I message the killer and we have a nice chat, say gg, and maybe even becomes friends and play together again. Like for example I played with a plague who was pretty inexperienced with the killer, they were struggling and I kept them busy all match while everyone else did gens. I got facecamped and died when I finally ran out of pallets, everyone else got out. I had a friendly chat with the plague, I was even cracking jokes about the match. Then I gave some friendly tips on how to better play plague. I’ve had so many friendly interactions with killers compared to my own teammates. When playing as killer myself, I’m far more likely to get “kys” messages. They’ve even left these voice messages screaming a bunch of slurs, like why? Just because they lost a match in some video game? The funny thing is, even when a killer is toxic to me, most of the time the other survs were being assholes all match, and were possibly in a party and playing together. So they group me in with them. Honestly, no hard feelings cause I know playing killer is super frustrating when they’re in a party and team up to bully a killer. Literally 99% of the time, survs are the ones being assholes for no reason. People are so competitive and it just ruins the fun honestly.
I really do think it’s the survivor side that actually is more entitled overall. The nature of the perspective of the killer being the “power” role makes many survivors become defensive when they loose. That also leads to the group psychology of teaming up and verbally beating up on the lone individual killer more likely. Not being part of the “power” role and loosing can feel to a survivor like the game was not fair. Killers do also generally have limited vision do to the difference in having a third person camera vs a third person camera. I’ve seen so many examples of survivors not understanding that a killer just happened to only see them shortly after an unhook and then be accused of tunneling even though they where the only target they knew the location of in that moment. Not chasing that person would feel like wasting time and you don’t know when you’ll find another survivor. So there is a lot of misunderstanding. I think this is overall problem is pretty much baked into the game unintentionally by design. By the nature of the game, mechanically and thematically the killer is the antagonist. The bad guy in the story. “They’re trying to kill me. I’m just trying to get away with my life. They are evil!” While after playing this game for awhile it does loose some of that feeling and becomes more “sport” like, however the baseline theme and feeling is still baked into the core of the game. Killer will always be seen on some level as the antagonizer of the game. And of course that’s how it should be. Killers in the story are the bad guys. However I think on a subconscious level, in the heat of the moment, and right afterwards it can be hard for survivors to separate that from the most likely perfectly normal person on the other side. Also, no matter what happens killers will be able to play an entire match from beginning to end. Survivors can be taken out of the game and forced to wait for their friends to finish or move on early. Survivors are also forced to just sit and wait for half the time they are on hook. So from the survivor side it feels like the killer is limiting their game time. Perhaps waisting their time. And they have to fight against them to keep playing the game. This is where I believe underlies the “unfun” label survivors will throw at killers at the end of a match.
Here's my take. Both sides can be horribly toxic. But when a killer is toxic to men he hits me on hook or always shakes his head no. When a survivor is being toxic, I get sent messages on my actual profile telling me to die, even if the survivors won.
My theory is, both sides are toxic. Both **Proportionally** are equally toxic. But in each match, there is 4 survivors Vs 1. Say 1 in 10 players are toxic. You play 10 games, get one toxic killer. You play the same amount of games as killer, and you are more likely to get about 3, 4 toxic survivors in those games. Average toxic player is still 1/10, but there is literally just more survivors in a game. Obviously, these can go the other way. Chill players are still as common on both sides, but there is physically more nice survivors.
Amazing video glad I found someone who tackles these kinds of issues in this game. Completely agree on both sides being entitled. Been trying both sides for awhile and I can see both very well and I gotta say being able to sit on the fence like this and not be stuck on one side feels pretty nice.
Me who plays both but more on killer plays, base on what I've noticed playing the game, I only see other survs players who actually complaining are new ones and old ones (prestige 50 up). In the killer side, I notice when I play survs is the killer only complains when they're caught cheating, bad day etc.
Make ranked games to randomly allocate roles, that way the line between killers and survivors will slowly disappear, you can play the role you want but only after every few games to help players get the role they want. A slow process but potentially effective.
The radicalization of rhetoric and Us vs. Them mentality of the DbD community is just mirroring larger parts of our overall society. In DbD, we have social influencers with their innate personality flaws and biases speaking on and supporting issues they may not be that knowledgable about. This is reflected in our own celebrity culture as well. It's highly worrying when people do this because it reflects on our age-old tribalist ways and how we seem to be falling back into them instead of becoming true individualists who question everything and have our own thoughts and opinions. Part of me suspects that perhaps a part of our community doesn't have that capability to self reflect, since they seem to be actively taking influencer opinions as gospel.
I may get frustrated in game sometimes but try to let it go afterwards. I don't think I've played long enough to feel entitled to anything in the game lol. I never mastered dead hard. My thoughts: I do not work at behavior or own the company so they can technically do what they want with it. Honestly I can see how if you play for thousands of hours, it could get boring. We need somewhat consistent changes to spice the game up. I try to imagine the other side is a person like me just trying to have fun. I agree with your video. Good content. I need to remember to work hard to get rid of entitlement ideology in myself
Bruh some dude really said, "this game is dead if I leave". How entitled can you be lmfao
Bruh that guy also asked for infinite bloodpoints and 100k irridescent shards
Bruh whos that guy tho
@@lipae438 it's a joke
Seriously this game is just poorly made, but it’s fun. Similar to a cheesy 80’s slasher. I find it absurd that people think that certain builds are why people don’t play…I made a goofy edit asking on a thread what other killers play with when they just want an easy game. I got so many seething survivor players claiming it’s boring lmao ruclips.net/video/eKrTbrYvXnM/видео.html
@@Deathknight6833 Bruh tell me his childrens name. Now.
Ill put it this way: As survivor, not once have I gotten sent a demeaning or awful message from a killer if I lost. But when I play as killer, every other game I'd get a hateful message if they lost or a narcissistic one if they escaped. Got so frequent that I actually privated my messages to "friends only", something I've NEVER had to do. Survivors seem to attract the sociopaths and narcissists for some reason
Perfect explanation and I agree
I once watched my cousin play Michael Myers, he did terrible, was getting spun like every 2 seconds and the survivors knew he was a baby, I was trying not to backseat game so I just laughed and gave advice if he asked for it, everyone escaped and he felt annoyed watching them all teabag at the gate, but he’s a good sport and just said I am a god at the game for having the patience to deal with playing killer.
after the game one of the survivors messaged me to tell me to KILL myself just because he did so bad, like.. you all escaped? What’s there to be mad about?
I explained my cousin was playing and he’s new, he told me I was lying and me and my cousin sent a voice mail laughing into the mic and saying ggs, (we weren’t being mean, just genuinely laughing) he then proceeded to shout insults at me and threatened to kill me.
Definitely my most bizarre experience ever online.
Wish i had this experience as survivor. I play both sides and everyone is equally toxic. Killers will just do the most petty things over the smallest thing. Had someone slug me for 4 minutes at the EGC just because i took a flashlight (for an archive and that i only used once the whole match) and because i didnt just let him down me once he closed the hatch. When i asked him why did he do that he just goes (in russian btw, didnt even bother to reply back in english) "toxic B****, just behave next time"
And this happens all the time where killers feel like something you did was "toxic" and take it personally.
Glad that when every other survivor is dead and the hatch is closed i can be slugged for 4 minutes during EGC just because the killer is being petty and its not reportable because "its a strategy" and there was literally nothing else i could do about it
This is exactly the situation. I have gotten killer messages before, but that is so rare it hardly even counts
I come from a game where I got a 4k as Wesker, all 4 survivors told me that I was the modern equivalent of Hitler
@@ryokiritani4187 Lol. I was Mussolini some weeks ago. Let's conquer everything, I guess? ':=)
I disagree with the "both"
From playing plenty of both, I get way WAYYYY more hatemail from survivors. Bitching about tunneling (even when I haven't) or camping, or whatever else nonsense they throw out just bc they died.
You ever played a bad match and won on pure luck and they still send you hatemail 😂😂😂
@bokcmeatyvstheworld8273 yes, yesterday I played a Myers game and killed everyone within 10 minutes of the game starting, purely luck and got 2 hatemails
That's probably just because there are four times as many survivors than there are killers in a given game. So the chances that you get hatemail from the survivors is going to be at least four times as likely. In practice, since killers tend to hate survivors more than their own teammates, you'd expect to see even more of a gap, more like 1/16 since a killer that sends hatemail is probably not going to message every survivor individually, but just the one that specifically stood out as annoying, while if the survivors want to send mail to the killer, it all goes to the same person.
I am probably late to the party, but I think that killers do not send as much hatemail is because they can vent the frustration in game.
They can bleed you out onf the floor, camp you, tunnel you, etc. While survivors can only tbag
I play both roles and see 20 survivors being toxic and entitled for every 1 killer.
You are also running across more survivor bc it’s a 4v1….
@@aaronnewell3229 But the playerbase is also basically split 4v1 with survivor and killer players. So it evens out.
@@aaronnewell3229 still indicates a x5 increase in toxicity :P
You're four times more likely to get at least one message as a killer.. the odds are increased is all, cause you're facing more people. It makes it appear disproportionate when it isn't.
You wouldn't believe the amount of messages my friends and I have received from killers going out of their way to either gloat after wining a match or complain about something we didn't do. One grown ass woman was even straight up harassing a 14 y/o, sending him voice messages over and over, telling him to 1v1 her in COD, calling us hackers even though they got a 2k (because noed, they were camping guy at end game, kinda figured they had it and didn't care), but we weren't even pressed. In fact we were laughing our asses off having conversations the entire time.
I ended up having to step in to tell her to back off the kid, at which point she starts lying about me telling her to kill herself. It was wild.
@@aaronnewell3229 Well golly! Following that logic, wouldn’t it mean that you should run into even more un-entitled survivors?
I agree that both sides are entitled, though from my experience playing both sides, i believe the 4v1 aspect of the game really exaggerates survivor entitlement, as because they have numbers they believe they are right. Ofc there are some survivors (including me) who call them out on this behavior, but it definitely adds up.
Likewise, a general tone for killers complaining is more about the game from my experience, such as blaming items and their strength, while survivors tend to blame the killer player themselves leading to more toxic behavior. This, in combination with my prior point, is why i personally believe survivors are more toxic and/or entitled from my experiences, though both sides have bad actors.
The side that is RELAXED and gives up 5gen 3survivors, and as if thsese FILTH ever try to "SURVIVE".
ENTITLED means believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. Nobles, Kings, Queens or whatever are "ENTITLED" from the dawn of Civilization.
Why? Because they are free time to dwell PITY TOXIC on those unfortunate ENOUGH. Like King Louis XVI, guess how he met his fate?
@@tiefblau2780 what? you completely lost me- i just said typically survivors feel entitled to directly choose how a killer plays, while killers get more frustrated with the game itself rather than the players from what ive experienced. Both sides are entitled in their own ways, i just think the tone of the survivor side being directed at the player makes for more toxicity.
@@shiverse9868 "Both sides are entitled in their own ways" what now, Do I have to feel sad and sorry that these Filth that they feel Entitled?
When from the start the Game was Rigged to make Survivors to feel ENTITLED by Escaping of what Started from "Legendary" Ochido to BM Killers when Escape. LoL
And the MonoCell Company where its Nerf or buff depend on division or multiplication.
Wesker 40m /2 20m, Iron Will 100%(75%) it isnt even broken. And Ruin....
@@tiefblau2780 My dude, you need to go outside and feel the sun on your face.
The way I always looked at this situation is math if you had an entitled salty killer every match but salty entitled survivors 1/4th of your matches then it would be even in terms of numbers but the case with dbd is wether they win or lose survivors either feel entitled to a free win or entitled to a more free win and in most people's experience this is almost every game played as killer I also played both sides survivors were complete pieces of trash 8 of 10 games and killers very rarely acted toxic or entitled so as math goes the entitled toxic side is survivor some say of course there's 4 times the people but the math doesn't even out the numbers even a tiny bit so survivors are the more entitled side this is actually why I quit dbd as killer there's no winning even when you win and as survivor it's just mind numbing easy and boring as hell
10:58 correction blight was "weak" because he was bugged the hell out and had his camera pov on his crotch instead of his neck like every other killer, not because his power doesn't fall in line with the other killers. I think a better example for this segment would've been the Spirit.
The spirit got pretty lack luster reception on her ptb, and she get buffs when she finally launched and got several more buffs later down the line. until it power crept her to the point where they had to go in and nerf her every other mid chapter for two years straight until she finally got her rework.
shes a better example of the community jumping the gun calling something weak, when she was actually pretty good once people figured out how to use her mechanics.
This happens with every killer and every update there just isn't enough time put in before people start complaining about something they need to learn to play or play against.
Yeah i was going to point that out but seems useless. This guy does great at researching everything but the game itself. Let him sound dumb.
@@RemOmni if thats the case then he should have come up with a better example, because blight was trash when he was released.
HotCross: So, have you guys learned your lesson?
Survivor & Killer mains: Yes
HotCross: And what lesson is that?
Survivor mains: We should nerf Thana
Killer mains: We should nerf Prove Thyself
HotCross: *sighs in disappointment*
One of these got nerfed.
The other did not.
Huh...
I mean prove thy self does need a bit of a nerf. Considering how badly gen regression perks got nerfed gen progress perks are stronger then ever
@@faerie7dragonit finally got a very slight nerf after 10 months lol
Nerf Made for this .!!
I agree that content creators have an influence over your experience in a game - i’d say at times they have a massive influence. As my time with DBD increases the content creators i watch playing the game has dwindled. I was tired of some content creators take the game too seriously and i realised, subconsciously, i was doing the same and i wasn’t enjoying the game anymore. After changing who i watched play the game i found my love for it grow again - even when in solo queue which i tried to avoid as much as possible in the past. I think a lot of the community needs to become the positivity they wish for the community to be.
This is so true. I have stopped watching certain creators who constantly complain about the game when they lose and instead watch more chill creators who play both sides.
The side that is RELAXED and gives up 5gen 3survivors, and as if thsese FILTH ever try to "SURVIVE".
ENTITLED means believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. Nobles, Kings, Queens or whatever are "ENTITLED" from the dawn of Civilization.
Why? Because they are free time to dwell PITY TOXIC on those unfortunate ENOUGH. Like King Louis XVI, guess how he met his fate?
Let me ask you this, Which side "CREATED" this Rule book? Which side go on Steam forum to cry their hearts out as if their 2 cent have to matter no matter what? Which side tries to save each other Knowing they have back up plans for 100% escape? And they had to Nerf Noed LoL.
Entitled.... Lets say I had someone who "works" for me during the medieval times, and I Spank him because I want to or cause of color or cause of any REASONS.
Am I doing work? or am I "Entitled"? I mean for me I have to be there to see my work get done, that in a sense is my WORK and JOB. Like in game the Survivors have to been in the game for "work" to start and the PALLETS EVERYWHERE as if Killer ever need permission to do anything. I WILL END YOU THE WAY I WANT.
This game should have been name Survive by Daylight.
Its a naming scamm something like the WHO, where it STILL HAVENT PRODUCE VACCINE to cure humanity.
@@tiefblau2780 relax, it’s just a video game bro
@@tiefblau2780 no wonder you don’t enjoy playing dbd because you take it so seriously - you are also missing the objective of the game itself completely, fun. you’re supposed to have fun whilst playing it, its not a winning simulator or a pissing contest. enjoy the experience of playing the different roles instead of trying to one-up the people you go against. as a player of both sides yes it is frustrating when you go against a 4 swf sweat team but the good often outweighs the bad, i remember a lot more of the games where the survivors in them were particularly funny rather than the ones who were sweaty and got out as soon as possible. you are becoming the very thing you have swore to destroy, entitlement and toxicity. YOU believe YOU have the right to win over others when in reality the game is about having fun, and by the way you are talking about it doesn’t seem that you are having fun playing the game. maybe try taking a break from it until you’ve matured and come to the realisation that it isn’t all about winning and there is still fun to be had if you ‘lose’
Yeah, I have to object on the "Both sides are the most entitled" aspect. I was a player who played both sides, playing pig as my main, and mostly solo que while refusing to use meta perks, and 99% of the time the salt was coming from a surv end game. When a killer did say something against the match, it was usually something about dead hard, and I always agreed that was a dumb perk. Even when I did SWF matches, there were a few members of my team who would complain over comms when things didn't go their way.
I honestly quit the game somewhere between Sadako and Blight, and uninstalled it completely because I was sick of survs complaining as much as they did, while at the same time having the most advantages. From what I have seen, killers have been getting some better stuff, and Dead Hard is "easier" to deal with now, but it's still not enough for me to want to return to the game.
To be fair, his video was a bit biased. Killers can be entitled too, but the examples and comparisons he made were not good ones. A survivor complaining about the new DH and a killer laughing at them isn't the same thing. Killers have had to deal with that bs perk, among other ones, for the longest time. Now this killer sided update finally nerfed it, and killers are having fun. This isn't entitlement, this is relief. Entitlement would be if a killer complains about flashlights, Head On or even t bagging imo, but a killer telling survivor to adapt after finally receiving a update in their favour that survivors still managed to adapt to? That isn't entitlement
@@1m073zh I agree with this, the updates recently have remade a lot of perks while keeping them with their original purpose in mind, for example good old Dead Hard, I believe that it is meant to be a perk that awards timing for when the killer attacks by giving you a chance, and the old one had made it to where you didn't need much timing and could use it to vault completely safe and extend the chase. Also some nerfs like for things like decisive made it to where if you got off the hook at end stage and there were other survivors, you could easily body block and escape with the survivor without fear of getting downed, also some reworks were made to properly fit the perk, like overcharge since its meant to be " a trap one must step in"-perk description, without the risk there wasn't much reason to fall into the trap while the killer was nearby but due to it now increasing regression you have to get fall into it with fear of loosing all of your progress.
@@melonmale Couldn't agree more Potato
@@1m073zh i dont know head one pretty annoying
*on
Honestly when I have too many unfun matches as survivor, I often switch to killer just so Otter people don't have to endure the same for one Match, even if I have to sit in a longer queue
Just because you think I wouldnt know or couldnt possibly know you, doesnt mean it is. Well but its your personality, it will SINK IN..
same lol
@memphis diplore “they are like females” oof. Oof man. I know you’re probably under 12 but cmon
I sometime do that too, when I got tunneled out and have a little chance to enjoy the match, I switched to play killer and have fun with 4 surs.
I have gotten a match against a grimy killer (camping at 5 gens, tunneling right off hook) and when I died I literally switched to killer and said "survivors deserve a better class of killers than that" and just played the most honest Ghostie possible. Giving spooks, letting people breathe when unhooked, sometimes farming.
When I first played Killer out of curiosity, I was incredibly surprised that they have a different field of view. And taking this to a different level, I agree with you. The only way to stop that Us vs Them mentality is to have them understand / see the other side. If only you had to play as Killer and Survivor online once before leaving the tutorial, just so people can see how the game feels for each side and maybe be more understanding / reasonable.
I always liked how "unfair" DBD is, it makes each match interesting and new. You never get to slack off and be carried by your perks, because you never know what the other players bring!
I used to be a surviver main, switched to a casual Killer player because I got so fed up with solo queue surviver.
What a great video Gary! Thanks for the impartial voice, the insights on both sides. Again this is very informative but easy to digest, you brought up some points that gave me food for thought outside of DBD
I've been playing both sides since I started playing the game.
This made me able to see how tunelling is sometimes needed for the Killer to give him a chance to win.
And that gen rushing for survivors is the safest way of winning the game.
I feel the survivor side is more entitled, they constantly complain about everything involving the killer side to a point that it literally changes the game. It’s frustrating and abit annoying. Ontop of that they are extremely sweaty almost all the time while there is more bully squads with clicky lights being absolute scumbags. Its just rude to the killer side and a tad annoying. Ive played both sides and have witnessed first hand how bad survivor side is and how upset they get at killer side for absolutely no reason other then the killer playing smart while the survivors do stupid moves
I've definitely run into asshole killers before, but usually they're just being dicks to be dicks. When they complain, it's usually over the balance of the game or about SWF's and how BHVR never addresses them. The survivor side definitely is more entitled though by a longshot, treating the killer like some DM.
I remember when I started letting the 4th survivor go every time I 4ked. I felt good doing it and didn't mind it, until I started seeing survivors complain in my games and in other games why didn't they get hatch if they were the last one? I realized right then and there that I needed to stop giving out hatch for free unless I felt they truly deserved it or I felt particularly bad for them.
@@Justmonika6969 couldnt agree more. Survivor side definitely got a super inflated entitlement
100% true
@memphis diplore tell that to bully squads 🤣 also thanks for proving the entitlement
Well duh there’s more survivors than killer
Easy answer: Survivor. The side with the most players over the years and the side who's been the most entitled over the years. TTVs especially give survivors a bad rep.
The side that is RELAXED and gives up 5gen 3survivors, and as if thsese FILTH ever try to "SURVIVE".
ENTITLED means believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. Nobles, Kings, Queens or whatever are "ENTITLED" from the dawn of Civilization.
Why? Because they are free time to dwell PITY TOXIC on those unfortunate ENOUGH. Like King Louis XVI, guess how he met his fate?
You watch this whole video and the point of it just flew over your head
@@lil_230 I don't need to watch the video to know the answer. It has always been survivor to be the most entitled. Killers can be entitled too but it's way more common from survivors. Always has been.
@@AaronScotz True
@@lil_230 I mean as someone who did watch the video entirely, I disagree with the assessment that both are equally entitled and still say survivors are the most entitled. I've gotten 90% more toxicity directed at me by survivors than by killers regardless of if I've won or lost or if I actually tunneled someone or distributed my hooks evenly. I've quite literally gotten toxicity from survivors *WHILE* playing survivor myself. I've been sandbagged because a teammate thought I dropped shack pallet early when I was trying to go for locker stuns somewhere else, I got snapped at for not letting myself go on hook with two teammates that started being rude to me in pre-game chat and were leading the killer to me the whole game cause of my bio, I got yelled at for not bringing bt, someone was even mad at me cause I was running a goofy build *during the ptb* of all things. Like while I agree killers are very capable of being entitled it has never happened as much as survivor entitlement.
Hi, im a killer main and like playing as Wesker, Legion, Demogorgon, Nemesis, and Ghostface. I'm smart enough to know that not a good player, I get looped all the time and getting a hit off is hard for me, but I still love the game(not the map, pallet town).
I feel like it’s survivor since they think there supposed to be the power role. A lot of games where a survivor disconnects when they are down for the first time ruining the experience for the rest of the team. I’ve also seen more toxic survivors than toxic killers in my years of playing DBD.
yeah i agree. When they get downed they DC. Or even purposely killing themselves on hook to skew the stats for devs to get their meta changed back.
I saw survivors be more toxic even tho they beat the killer easily. Like there were games I got smoked. But they all just enjoyed tbagging and clicking me. And in 1 game, there was just one guy that was ruining my game. I decided to stare at the corner as he clicked behind me to get my attention and when he saw I didnt budge, he actually DC'd. Whether survivor wins or loses, they tend to be toxic. Not all, but a majority.
Also I feel that toxic killers are like an after effect of toxic survivors. In my experience, I know a toxic bully squad would get in my head, and the unfortunate next survivor crew pays the price for the previous one.
I of course avoid being toxic, because thats a very negative state of mind. I like to play normally or sometimes be the friendly killer that goofs around, while rarely playing surv for daily or tome.
But even from my survivor experiences, sure there are some killers who camp and tunnel, but i dont see those killers mocking the suvivors in post game chat or be salty if they lose. They just say gg and move on.
I see more killer players give up in my matches, so IDK
Obviously you’re gonna see more toxic survivors compared to killers simply for the number advantage
As a killer main who plays survivor every now and then, I’ve gotta say that they’re both pretty balanced, with both having their own strengths that makes them great to play. My problem is that people who play survivor are toxic as all h*** for no reason. Sure, killers can be toxic too, but most of the time when I see a killer do something that everyone else would consider toxic, I see it as the killers doing their jobs (trying to prevent my escape). But when I see a survivor teabag me at the end of a trial, the game immediately goes from them doing their job (trying to escape) to them just being mean.
I play mostly survivor, but sometimes killer and survivor mains have the biggest group of toxic players. I only really get upset when killers start the match with tunneling and camping in mind - cause then ur just playing for being mean and to ruin somebodys game, I see this as equal to going in full bully squad. But when playing killer u usually get t-bagged at the gate, sometimes even at the first pallet stun. I try to play killer as fair as possible unless they make stupid moves, cause free hit. But if they get toxic with me, haha then its game on to killing that player
Killers are just as toxic stop with this bullshit argument
@@Sindren2Tunneling isnt toxic, it's a strat, lol.
If youre getting gen rushed or falling behind struggling to maintain pressure then sure, tunnel out a player to get back the pressure. That is a strat, when you tunnel out a player at 4-5 gens, then its just to be a d, aint no way around it @@MrVIrginiaLUV
When I get frustrated I end up swapping to killer in an attempt to have fun
I love this video! I've been trying to explain this to a particularly entitled friend, and this video is exactly what I've been trying to say, with much more elegance.
Also, because playing both sides helps develop empathy for the other side, it also makes you better at playing both sides - a killer main who plays some survivor can predict perks and strategies easier, and vice-versa.
Very well-thought-out and comprehensive take on DBD as a whole. We do need to spend more time understanding and reflecting on the other side. I know I need to. As a survivor main, I need to stop expecting the killer should give hatch if I am the last survivor and as a killer, I need to take into consideration my game play so as to not play in a manner that creates and breeds contempt.
I started playing DBD last October and began to gravitate towards the killer side quite early on, as I wanted to challenge myself and was afraid of going into solo queue because I got bullied by a friend of a friend during a customs match. Since then, I’ve gotten a fair few of my friends into DBD, and almost all of them have gravitated towards the survivor side of the game. One of my friends, who plays quite a lot as a survivor main (but has never touched killer in a public match), is able to look more reasonably at the difficulties killer mains face, and not only because I talk to her about them. Likewise, as I’ve begun to play more solo queue survivor, I’ve begun to understand survivor struggles, and I have genuine interest of the gripes on both sides. I think what gets me, though, is whenever either side is just mean about it.
I just had a match like this last night where I found it incredibly difficult to be sympathetic. All match, Felix would run in front of me, or run out in the open, or run to more desirable tiles. I was playing Blight, who I am not very good at as far as understanding his power. I’m getting better, but I’m nowhere near Blight main territory. Even though I didn’t hard tunnel (he lived), he complained in the endgame about being tunneled, and when I, confused, pointed out that he survived, his teammate chimed in, claiming that it “didn’t matter” that he lived because I “still tunneled.” Even though I pride myself on being a generally calm and positive person, I found it very hard to be positive towards those players after that, even though I had no problems with how the game went previously (1k, 3 man escape, which I was okay with because, as I said, I’m very much still a baby Blight). It’s sad that those moments can ruin my night, especially because I had many positive experiences that night.
That's a whole lot of words for "whichever side I am not currently playing"
i play both sides though for content creation i have to do survivor cause its easier & funnier for the audience that way if a killer be's incredibly toxic or a survivor being toxic to a survivor/killer in a match i will ask them why they did it some will answer with a good reason a the others will answer with insults instead of being civil
a common answer is "survivor: i wanted to gain their attention/ killer: they were spamm clicking their flashlight/tea bagging or were really annoying "
When I was a killer main I use to be very entitled, believing survoirs were just crybabies . Then I started playing survivor with my sister who's very good at survivor. I realized its alot harder than I thought . Especially solo que
It's supposed to be hard, there's 4 of you. It's supposed to be balanced. Reasons why when it first came out that Survivors couldn't communicate.
The ending is a copout! Joking aside, the main issue is probably due to the fact that some players, both killers and survivors, don't care about the other side. They literally see their opponents as toys who need to play their role or be punished, or buy into the commonly repeated rhetoric. Another issue stems from the fact so many lust for the mythical "True balance" a legendary realm where both killer and survivor are balanced when that is literally impossible. Both due to the very nature of the game and that different people have different thoughts on what balanced is. Some survivors think decent coordination leading to a win is balanced, some want to literally one V one the killer.
I think this kinda coalesces around a recent debate I saw about whether or not killers should get FOV options or not. Where many vehemently stand by the idea that it'd be abused and be too much of a competitive advantage and those who get motion sick can get bent. Meanwhile survivors get to queue together and be on comms to accommodate people wanting to play with friends, which I think is perfectly reasonable, but I also think it's reasonable that a handful of visual degrees that killers can mess around with isn't a game breaking feature, well no more game breaking than comms on a game not made for comms. But maybe I'm just crazy.
In the end, a lot of players take the game too seriously, and the game is then balanced in a serious way when any kind of equilibrium is basically impossible to truly attain, as there will always be someone somewhere feeling cheated by something in DbD. Perks, certain killers, certain addons, flashlights, SWFs. I've always felt DbD should become more casual, insanely casual and quicker paced so most semblance of balance is ignored in favor of fun. Replace hook states with lives, let both survivors and killers go crazy so total domination isn't the immediate "win" condition at first glance. But the core of DbD is pretty set in stone, as not only would it need a big overhaul which might be difficult after seven years of updates, that's also seven years of identity. Doubt any game could change so drastically after so long.
Really, any major change will be met with anger. Even something as simple as changing Dead Hard sent people into a tizzy, so I don't doubt BHVR is hesitant to change things too much. Imagine if another killer got the Freddy treatment nowadays, completely changing their kit so they're nearly unrecognizable. But it just seems like DbD is doomed to harsh peaks and valleys and eternal othering. I suppose you can't really find balance when the game can't be symmetrical.
But, great video, even if the ending is a copout. I really wanted an up and coming content creator to tell me which side is TRULY the most entitled and then contrast my bias against them! /s
Survivors create imaginary rules for killers, while killers are expected to go in a game and go along with everything the survivors do. Obviously there are toxic killers out there but I cannot accept there being the slightest debate about killers being anything close to the survivor entitlement.
I've heard enough killers utter the phrase "gen rush", both sides have these imaginary rules they expect the other side to abide by to be honest.
@@TheHotCross
Made up rulebook that causes toxic rants in endchat or verifiable PROVEN survivor tactics that get all gens done in 5 minutes. Yeah that's not a good comparison, if RUclipsrs like you ever got off the fence maybe you'd be worth listening to
@@dirkechoes1377 You are an excellent example of why I consider killer mains as whiney as their survivor counterparts 😂 "I can't believe this RUclipsr doesn't agree with me 100%! WAAAAAAH" 😂
Love these looks into the DBD community. aha I'd argue there are 3 comps though. "Killer main, survivor main, solo/random" as the solo/random are typically alienated by both. its the 1 time killer and survivors agree, If a killer knows you're the 1 random, they're likely to target you first as you have no friends to back you up, paired with(and you can see this in some streamers who mainly SWF) the "they aren't in our group, don't die for them" mentality.
Great video! This was something that me and my small circle had discovered a while ago, in reference to the solution. So its nice to see someone put this into an easily understood format, and I personally hope this video blows up so the community as a whole can grow together and change. You said it yourself, we all love Dead by Daylight. We ARE the Dead by Daylight Community. Together!
My only suggestion moving forward in other videos would be to increase those blurrs or black out completely on Twitter users or people youre trying to "hide." Guaranteed I talk to/follow almost all of them, but I knew who each of those statuses were despite the blurr, as the profile pictures and names were easily legible.
Thanks! Yeah I could have probably done a better job with the blur haha, at the same time, there's nothing wrong with any of their tweets so :D
@@TheHotCross Agreed! Nothing bad at all! Just wanted to point it out. I did something similar on one of my videos till someone pointed out they still knew who it was 😅😂
Love when you explore the psychological aspect of players! Also its easy to tell which tweets belong to a certain big streamer. Always like hearing your thoughts! Keep up the good work!
While both sides can be very entitled, I can't help but sense a bit of bias in this video.
You mentioned yourself how the update was killer sided and killers sat with glee at it. I agree that it is the most killer sided, but that wasn't glee from killers because numbers show for years a decline in killer players. This isn't an example of killer entitlement, this is frustration. Survivor queues were long whereas killer queues were almost instant, this is because no one had interest in playing killer. DbD even tried to address this by giving killer more BPs. Hell, the fact that survivors managed to adapt 'shockingly fast' to the update shows that it wasn't a bad one in most aspects, that it was a needed update for the better. Obviously killer mains did have a good laugh at survivors because everything got nerfed, but it was mostly deserved. Most people don't play S tier killers, so imagine the regular frustration just by playing your fav killer. Even you made a point of how you're having more fun as Pig, a really bad low tier killer by everyone's standards before this chapter and her update. Killers are arguably the most frustrated side here, if not for any of these reasons then for one reason - All survivors are the same, yet all killers aren't. Regardless if you play Laurie or Cheryl, you can still use the same perks and have the same playstyle - there is no difference. However I'm sure we can all agree that there is a big difference between someone like Blight and someone like Trapper.
Killers complaining about Head On, flashlights, sabos, t bagging - that is entitlement, expecting people not to do or use those things because it upsets them. But killers being happy about a chapter that made killers way more enjoyable and better all in all, that nerfed arguable busted perks on the survivor side? That isn't entitlement, it's relief
I mean "obviously killer mains did have a good laugh at survivors" is the glee I am referring to regarding the update, even I giggled a bit at survivors reactions so, seems senseless to deny it. I think you've taken my point alluding to killer player's hypocrisy as part of their entitlement which it's not. I'm just pointing out that everyone complains about everything in DbD from various perspectives, which is ok, but when you start "othering" people because of it, that's the unhealthy element. But I do appreciate your points, I am extremely happy overall that killer is more enjoyable atm! Maybe some of my own points in the video could have been clearer which I'll try to do in the future.
@@TheHotCross Not a problem, thank you too for the fast response. You took this like a champ :D
Killers complaining about awfully toxic behaviour from the other side, things like t-bagging and fleshlight clicking is NOT entitlement. It's pointing out the wrong doing of BHVR to not ban/punish people for misbehaving.
@@Luna-Starfrost What's so wrong about it? It's part of the game, and I understand perfectly that it can be very annoying but it is part of the game. It's a frustration tactic, the same thing as voice lines and emotes in other games. If you let it frustrate you, you will lose because you will make mistakes. If you keep your cool tho you'll find that by trying to be rude they end up fucking themselves over
@@Luna-Starfrost Think about it, anyone who is tea bagging is not making any distance. Someone who is clicking at you is not doing any gens, by doing that they make it so that it's free pressure, like chasing 2 survivors at once.
Personally I find teams who don't bm at all way more difficult to handle than teams who are constantly clicking and bagging me
as somone who is iri 1 on both sides this videos ending is my exact thoughts GO PLAY BOTH SIDES!!! great video
I'm so glad I found this channel.
I like how the top comment proved the dunning kruger effect in the video itself
survivors NO question, to most of them its LITERALLY a war crime playing killer in this damn game
After seeing the replies on Twitter to the second CoH nerf survivors will always be the more entitled side to me. Killers' response to 6.1 to me was simply killers having their fun with the shoe being on the other foot after years of survivors using same incredible strong perks every game rather than any form of entitlement. It is pretty funny though how you show several tweets from arguable the most famous entitled killer main.
Yeah true
While it is true that there was a resurgence in tunnelling and camping since the update, there was a much larger resurgence of dc's, from survivers due to the game having the first ever killer sided update, not only that but the amount of hackers is substantially more in survivors.
What a lame answer. Just because both sides can be entitled, doesn’t mean one side isn’t louder than the other. It’s a fact that there are more survivor players than there are killers, so clearly the more entitled side are the survivors
Thinking one side is any worse than the other may suggest a bias, which is kind of the point of my video tbh. One side isn't worst than the other, there are entitled people in both camps and we maybe need to pay them less attention is my point of view.
@@TheHotCross Fine I guess
I agree for the most part, though I think the entitlement from side to side presents differently.
In killer it's usually centered around blaming items, perks or a map for their losses and disregarding all of their mistakes. While there is always an argument that certain things are too strong, sometimes this argument becomes disingenuous off an overestimation of their own skill. Typically these killers don't go out of their way to whine in endgame chat, but instead direct their complaints to the forums.
In survivor, however, I've found their entitlement and anger is more often than not directed at other players rather than the game itself. Either berating the killer for the way they played or calling their teammates bad and blaming other people for their loss is the norm among these players, and the perception that survivors are "more" entitled comes from the fact that their entitlement is more visible since they are directly lashing out at others rather than game balance.
Both sides are toxic stay mad
as someone who plays both Survivor and Killer, I can kinda agree because I do sort of rage in game
7:55 that reminds me of a wraith game I had, was going for adept but unfortunately didn’t get it that game, one person playing ace had ran into me while I was chasing someone else at the beginning of the game and got downed in a few seconds since I left the other person who was good at looping, as soon as they went down they DC’d, 5 gens with very little progress against 3 survivors. They did what they could and got to 3 gens before it was the last person, who also ended up dying. I’m the post game chat the ace was calling one of the other survivors bad for running a totem cleansing build instead of focusing on gens (this other person was the last person alive and did one of the 2 gens completed) imo they did the most for the team and since they didn’t know what perks I was using could have easily had noed and was cleaning all totems in case they could get the gates open after the hatch is closed. Getting annoyed at your team as surv is one thing if you are doing a lot and your team is hiding in corners doing nothing, but when you are the person who leaves in the first minute of the game, then get mad at your team for being bad than doing better than you did. Some people.
Edit: to clear some confusion that I felt reading it may cause, the ace DCd when they went down, but didn’t actually leave the game, they stayed in the end game lobby just to call others bad at the end
When I play Dbd as either killer or survivor, I feel different things while playing. As survivor i love the new meta and i think in general it's a bit more fun. Yes i do get tunneled a few times but I am rarely camped. As killer, i sometimes feel like a masochist. Because I face survivors who are stacked with OTR and Adrenaline. And after a few loses i face potatoes. It's a bit of a mixed bag. But I will say that the game is in a better state than it was one year ago. I love this game as a horror enjoyer and i have seen some funny things, and i have had fun playing dbd with my friends.
Playing both roles is fun. Survivors with my friends and trying to escape the killer and as killer trying to hook them all.. But sometimes it is frustating playing as killer whenever I see all survivors escaped due to the mistakes I did during the match..
The frustrating thing about killer is that your mistakes can compound to lose the game. Survivor frustration, meanwhile, depends on your team's combined mistakes leading to a snowball for the killer, or the way the killer chooses to play. Playing survivor solo Q can feel helpless if your team is significantly below the killer and your skill level.
It is very interesting take, however, the "play both sides" is not really a cure unless everyone would do that and leave their bias behind. People who play both sides are often disregarded by both camps, mocked even. I believe it is due to disbelief that anyone really plays both sides, or suspicion that person is straight up lying "insert side here" main.
So, what we are dealing with are two camps that are not only entitled as hell, but also very, very paranoid.
I feel like killer toxicity and entitlement manifests itself moreso in toxic gameplay than in EGC or messages
I think the solution might be: play both sides and instead of assuming the worst. Gather up several reasons why someone is doing a certain action. Such as, a killer is camping because they want to win or they see every survivor near. However, coming up with these reasons does not mean it is fact because you don't know everyone's thinking or perspective.
Conclusion, try to understand reasons, but don't assume your reasons is the reason why someone is playing in a particular way. Because you aren't that person, but yourself.
The funniest thing I experienced about them bringing back Dead Mans Switch and Pain Resonance was that BHVR mentioned that the choice was either Dead Mans Switch or Merciless Storm when a Survivor could experience a potential 40+ skill checks due to how the 2 worked with one another and Dead Mans was by far the easiest one to deal with from a survivors perspective
The video was well spoken. But as the comments have said. Surely the survivors are indeed more entitled. Mostly because of pure numbers possibly. No point in sugar coating it. I've had a survivor back me up in chat against his teammates. And that meant more than 100 entitled chats from others. (Don't say nothing if you have nothing nice to say) is a good option with this game. Hence it is just a game guys.
It's not really about the number of players on either side, more about the attitudes they share but I see where you're coming from and I 100% agree, too many players take the game too seriously and fly off the handle in any post game chat!
That was a nice video my good sir. I especially agree with the part with the Dunning Kruger Effect : often when you read DBD's forum, you'll see some people complaining from a "broken aspect" from the other side, and by reading it, you can clearly see they never play that side and have no clue of how it plays. You have to play both side to understand that many "broken mecanics" of the game are in fact, not broken at all. And it goes for both survivors and killers.
This video is great. It shows both sides of the arguments, shows reasons and gives good proof for his arguments. Great work m8!
Speaking of mid-patch. Before it was released i played much more killer than survior, after mid patch i decided to try to play survivor with new deadhard, prove thyself to help teammates, borrowed time, and no one left behind and after I tried the New dh i loved it. It was much harder to use, but used correcly gave much more distance to you and your team of you decided to bodyblock with it. After changes are made, community needs time to exacly see the issues. Imidiate changes are not healthy in any game, but slow changes are bad too. The killer buffs were nice, but I must say that longer gens are noticeable. Basekit changes are hard to do, if there are unbalanced perks that can abuse these. Overall i think mid patch was a good change and it really shown who is willing to adapt to the New things.
Changing topic to wesker. I played him on ptb and on live. He is not weak, but severaly limited by his bugs. If behaviour fixes bugs, tweaks collision detection (his enviroment detection is almost perfect, just a small decrease), but survivor collision is 2 small (it's smaller than killer himself). In the end if the buggy surfaces and elevation issues are fixed he will be (propably) the most fun killer to play as and against, but I the end, it is just my lengthy opinion.
this video deserves significantly more views, excellent points and well presented, cheers
Meanwhile me, running Jeff with no exhaustion perks + a bunch of team play aura/heal/protection perks and trying to give killer his 4K + Hatch if I'm the last one left/Trying to get 2 hooks on everyone and then just chase them around and slug them until the exit gets powered up so I can let them out (and somehow still getting pips to climb, consistently). Just trying to chill with my backpack Wesker build, chasing survivors around while I carry my new best friend on my shoulder. Hearing about people supposedly claiming the game is being ruined, because of perks I rarely/never used.
Could be worse.
I get both survivor and killer to red rank 1 every month I wouldn't call myself a main of either. I do have more fun playing killer but survivor feels like it takes a lot less effort most of the time, I think people are just way too close minded with this game and more people should try both sides because you can definitely get an upper hand in the game knowing how the other side works and can predict how they're going to play or what they'll do next
I'd say Survivors are the most entitled. They're always sore winners and losers, create Bully Squads, DC when Killers outplay them in a way that deprives them of RUclips content, rage at Lightborn, cry about Dead Hard nerfs, and never shut up about Nurse. Anything a Killer does that could be considered toxic brings them closer to getting a 4k win condition. Survivors teabagging, pointing, clicking flashlights, etc doesn't advance them any closer to victory. They do it simply to troll the Killer. Yes, Solo Que angels do exist. Does that absolve all that other behavior? Absolutely not. So, Killers are trying to win, Survivors are there to either win as well, or simply to torment a singular human being.
To be fair, even as a Killer main I hate Nurse. She is literally the sole reason Awakened Awareness got nerfed...
@@1m073zh i play both sides alot(mostly leaning towards killer) and have grown to hate nurse exactly because of that.
bhvr added 8m extra TR to deathslinger because he was too stealthy with monitor and abuse, yet nurse gets the special treatment of the perks good for her being nerfed instead.
@@spinnyboi9951 Slinger has an extra 8m? I did not know that, wtf. Just kill the Nurse already smh...
@@1m073zh 24m on launch, so 16m out of chase with monitor and abuse, which was nice cause of the 18m max shot range
@@spinnyboi9951 Why nerf that?, it is fair. If he manages to be sneaky and gets a shot, he should be rewarded for it imo
I always hesitate on playing dbd much nowadays due to how rude or toxic people can be in the end game. No one wants to be told to kys for playing how you want to. I see it happen on both sides and its disappointing. we should focus on trying to get people to be a little more positive at the end game. Whether a simple gg or maybe some solid tips on how to improve as that killer or how to counter something the killer did.
I've been playing a pretty even 50/50 split between the two roles and both sides are definitely pretty salty about different things.
I am a killer main so I probably don’t have the full view others might have, but in my opinion survivors are the most toxic. I’ve tried to play survivor and the very first time I tried I was killed pretty fast. Not because of the killer, but because I soloed qued and got stuck on a team that had three people in a party. They then proceeded to not only bully the killer, but also me. They would body block me any chance they got, purposely fail skill checks on the gen I was working on, and letting me stay on the hook and teabagging in front of me. Suffice to say that left a very bad taste in my mouth. I’ve tried again later but I was killed pretty quickly. Wasn’t a big deal to me, but apparently to my teammates I was satan incarcerated. They messaged me and kept threading and trying to insult me, so I reported one of them that was the worst. Well, turned out he got banned so he got his friends to threaten me even more that they were gonna find me and r*p* and kill me. I proceeded to report them both and block them. I haven’t played as survivor since.
As always, your narration is fantastic! It's fascinating to hear a bit of the psychology that relates to it all. If you ever branch out your narration to other types of videos, I could really see it working well for SCP or cryptid type videos.
It's like Vanripper(creator of Helltaker) said in one of his streams, paraphrasing here "People that know their flaws will get better because they know their mistakes, people that are oblivious on their flaws will only get worst”
holy shit someone made a video that ACTUALLY addresses the issue, I wish this video had more views seeing as this is the only video I've seen that actually explains the problem extremely well and gives as much context as needed to prove your point.
As someone who plays both roles? Pretty much on the spot. On Killer side, Prove Thyself is a bane perk because you never know which Survivor has it roughly. As such, you can lose because you chased the wrong Survivors and didn't know until the results screen. On the flipside, being facecamped just because of the wrong place at the wrong time on the Survivor Side or getting that one Survivor player on your team who ends up creating frustrations and hurdles for you unintentionally never feels good.
I empathize with both sides because it is frustrating to lose because of what feels like bad luck, and bad luck really exacerbates this mentality both sides feel
Gonna be honest that Scott post regarding Wesker isnt saying he is weak just buggy.
My Man, i Just found out your Channel, and i fucking loved it, you earned a sub mate, keep the good job!
I’m not sure how its hard for some to grasp, but lets lay everything down on the table. You can pull a Schrodinger’s cat and say both sides are both equal and unequal in entitlement, but thats ignoring the one thing about DBD thats at its core: its an Asymmetrical style survival game.
Its always has and always will be a game of 4 v 1, so it’s literally impossible to say that the game isn’t balanced around survivor’s because if it wasn’t there would be no game (ie why play Survivor when killer’s “win” 90% of the time). The game wouldn’t be fun if a Survivor has absolutely no chance of escaping.
This isn’t to say both sides can’t or aren’t entitled or that the game is 100% in Survivors favor (I’m not here claiming Nurse isn’t a problem lol) but its a 1:4 ratio for every game meaning statistically killers will meet 4 “toxic” survivors before a Survivor meets one “Toxic” killer. Plus harping back to the game being designed to be survivor sided, it would increase the odds of their entitlement since survivors by all means have the necessary tools to escape.
With that said (as a Killer Main) people like True are terrible in solidifying victimhood for Killers, and I hate that his opinions are generally what are used by Survivors as Examples of how Killer’s act. The entitlement of DBD isn’t 50:50, but certain Killers definitely aren’t free from that title
As always, an excellent job Gary. You put so much work in these and I hope more can see these videos. Empathy would go a long way to helping the experience in dbd.
The RPD map will always be bad cus it's a indoor map with one gate. I say this as a player who's plays both sides and hate no matter one side I'm playing.
Absolutely amazing, I loved the points stated and how you basically backed it up with psychology. I wish there was some solution for entitlement but alas the most entitled speak the loudest no matter what side you look at
I honestly think both sides bitch enough about the game that it makes it balanced 💀
Honestly, I absolutely despite this "Us vs Them" mindset.... I really do. Do I admit to be a part of it? Yes, to an extent. I'm a survivor main, but i play killer also. So I know what it can be like from both sides and I respect that. What I absolutely hate is when you just try to say "gg" to someone and they're rude about it, whether they won or lost. Are there perks or items that are overpowered on survivor side? Oh yeah. Are there perks or add-ons that are overpowered on killer side? Definitely!!! But what most people don't realize is that it's all on the player. Not the items or perks.... If you can't use the perk the way it's meant to be used, then it's no longer good for YOU.
Stupid example of myself: I'm horrible at looping. I'm horrible at blinding. So a flashlight is useless to me. I only collect them for friends. But I LOVE maps! Specifically Rainbow maps. Many think they're useless, much like keys (which are useless until you put certain add-ons on it and make it an aura reading tool instead) but they provide SO MUCH information! And depending on the add-on, they can be shared with other players too! But then going to the killer side: I've played Nurse once for a daily to try to see if I could handle her. Well range add-ons are useless for me because I can't really use Nurse. But for other people, they're meta beyond meta.
Every single perk, item, and add-on in this game (including offerings) is all based on how YOU use them. You just have to find what works for you and stop insulting the other side. Are there certain perks we hate on either side? For sure. But just because we hate them doesn't mean they won't be used. Because it works for THAT player, even if it doesn't work for you. Like me, I love Lightborn because I get blinded so much. But I have a friend that absolutely despises it and is one of the reasons they'll DC. Do I think that's stupid? Oh yeah. But I'll run Lightborn no matter what because you don't know what survivors will get from chests. Like-wise, I love Blast Mine (pre-recent-nerf) and it was one of the very few ways I could get blinds on killers. Do I think the nerf ruined it? Def. But I have to just move on with it because I can't change it. So I gotta find a different perk or item to use or just adjust to the way it is. We can't change anything and our negative voices will only reach so far to the developers.....
(sorry if none of this made any sense. i'm barely awake but commenting my opinion on this)
Your voice and style reminds me of this old cod youtuber I use to watch Ahoy. Good stuff
I used to play survivor a lot and I was super toxic but after playing and getting good at killer I learned how hard it can be. Now the only time I am ever toxic is if the killer or survivor is being toxic.
survivors literally started killing themselves on the hook and throwing games just because a few of their perks got nerfed
People just need to learn that its a game, sometimes i get entitled then i need to take a step back, im a killer main but i have played survivor and looping isnt easy to learn, cause its a timing thing, which takes time to master, its a cat and mouse game, both sides complain i find it humorous on twitter, but i dont really run into it in game, yes tbags and stuff but thats not inherently toxic, just in game banter which is normal for humans
Once again your analysis is spot on to be honest. I have always considered myself a survivor main (as I have certainly played more survivor), however, I try my hardest not to fall into a survivor vs killer mindset. In truth, I have an incomplete analysis of even the survivor side as I will only play survivor when at least one of my friends is online, despite having 1.4k hours (and being around since 2016), I have probably played in the single digits of solo queue matches. I have played killer as well though (especially recently) and can see why killers do what they do when I'm playing survivor. Sometimes I even come to the killer's defense in the end game chat if someone is complaining about something that was totally reasonable.
But despite being a survivor main, I have always thought, and still do, that survivor is the strongest role, but this perspective may be because I only play in a SWF. Only in recent times have a seen a heavy push that survivors are victims, though perhaps this depends on the corners of the internet that you have been on, and survivor victimization has been around for longer than I thought (It probably has been around in small doses but not in full force like it is now). In truth, killers have had it quite hard in certain eras of the game, but I still don't think they were victims or being punished by BHVR, it was simply a lack of ability to perfectly balance a game like DBD.
When it comes to the Us vs. Them mentality, I think I am somewhat guilty of this, but not between survivors and killers, but between casual players and competitive players. In DBD, and many other games I play, I have always advocated for the casual playerbase, and disregard, belittle, and attack the competitive playerbase. Now I do this for good reason in my view, but I still recognize that I am fermenting a Us vs Them mentality. Further, and while this may seem hypocritical, I think shifting the Us vs them from being survivor and killers, to being casual and competitive players (and by competitive players I don't necessarily mean tourney players, but those that prioritize winning over fun) would help the overall toxicity of the community and perhaps make the community better. I say this because competitive players do, through apathy or malice, make the game worse for casuals by stomping them into the dirt and suggesting changes that make the game less fun for casuals. Beyond this, the competitive player base is much smaller (despite them inhabiting both roles) than the survivor and killer player base, and losing them would not hurt the playerbase all that much and in fact may help the playerbase grow with a shift to a more casual atmosphere that DBD has and should always foster.
A person can dream lad,
A person can dream.
Dead by daylight is a game of chance, rng. If people cannot adapt to the randomness, their enviroment and/or killer and their perks, as well as the situation, they complain. Since they cannot maintain control and have it their way, they just whine and refuse to change.
When was the last time anyone got a message from a killer? Now, when was the last time you received one from a survivor? Exactly
I only needed to see the title of the video to know what the answer to this question.
Hands down and without a shadow of a doubt, it is the survivor side that's the most entitled of the two.
Aside from the fact that they are toxic even to their fellow survivor teammates, it's clearly visible that a huge chunk of this player base wants to have the balance tilt to their favor at all times, and that's just in-game mechanics, I haven't even touched on the fact that they can get a massive advantage outside of the game by using comms from servers like discord to coordinate their "strategies" against the killer, while the player opposing them has no way of countering that "perk" because that's an advantage they use outside of DBD.
I can hear it already "But killers have toxic perks like blood favor and Franklin's demise" and that's supposed to be that way because it is one killer against 4 survivors who may be running 4 different sets of builds to get out of the game, and the killer only gets one set of 4 perks to respond against 4 sets totaling 12 perks.
Gen rushing still is a nightmare to deal with on the killer side, and movement speed is a joke because at best, killers get 5% haste for about 15 seconds (excluding machine learning, which grants 30 seconds as long as the conditions are met), but survivors can get movement buffs between 3 to 7 percent that can last them the entire match without having a challenging barrier of entry. Also, it is almost obvious that a large base of the survivor community is strictly in the game to abuse the mechanics of the game, harass (not annoy) the killers, and play to win as if this game was built to be competitive when in reality...this game is the equivalent of Mario party.
Survivors always, and I mean always, talk about the "fairness and balance" of the game...which is something I've never once heard a killer main complain about...not ever!
That's some made up idea from the survivor side that makes no sense and plagues a game where there are 4 people going up against just one. The fact that this game is asymmetrical should be enough of a warning sign to those looking for "fair and balance", but it's not, and instead they cry and moan about how even the trapper's speed for setting traps is unbalanced...I wish I was kidding about this one.
Killer's main entitlement issue feeling targeted by both the survivors as well Behaviour.
Every time a perk on the killer side gets nerfed, it feels like a targeted attack on from Behaviour to appease the cries from survivors that claim there's no "fairness in DBD".
Don't believe me?
Then...call of brine, overcharge, pain resonance, eruption (this one got it twice), and even ruin got nerfed to the point of almost being useless strictly because survivors wanted them to be this way so they could "get a leg up" in the game (despite the fact of a 4 v 1 and a chunk of that player base using comms).
How long did it take prove thyself to get nerfed after the killer perks I just mentioned got their nerf?
The answer to this question has no contest and I'll say it again. the survivor side is far too entitled for its own good, and this is something they do to themselves.
Want a "balanced" DBD game?
Let a 2nd killer enter the lobby, and since comms are a thing survivors use outside of DBD to get coordinated, I don't see why two killers can't do the same thing.
Feel free to talk about "fair and balance" in an asymmetrical game then.
Both. Im a survivor main. I have caught myself DCing because the game didnt go my way. I try not to do this anymore and say gg after every game, even if its bad. I think someone like Otz should decide things like this.
As soon as I saw this video, I told one of my Discord friends that follows this game: "My money's on 'Both'." Glad to see I called it.
Me personally, I'm glad videos like this are out there, because I do want the ability to go into a match and not feel like it's an instant loss because of the map I spawned in on, but that's an issue I think both survivor and killer players can agree on. Actual gameplay, I'll do what I can to try not to play 'sweaty', because if people want to sweat, I might not entirely enjoy playing against that, but I do recognize that some people have their fun pushing themselves to those limits. That's just not me. In the future, now that I've poured officially 1,000 hours into this game, I'll try and focus more on the why since there's more to it than 'Me play meta because it make my winrate go up' for either side.
As a chad both enjoyer it's funny seeing both sides always argue for no reason.
What does it make me when i am a survivor who hates other survivors?
Im not the entity
I think it makes you empathetic to the killer players! Some survivors are terrible! :D
i can't comment to whether there's really an entitlement on either side because i enjoy the game as an outsider viewing dead by daylight purely as a spectator... though, from that perspective i think it's difficult to say if one side is more entitled than the other...
i watch dead by daylight regularly on twitch through streamers like yourself, attackamasha, johnwolfe, spookyloopz and runningman and while i don't play the game myself i feel as though i've consumed enough of it to at least form an opinion... i think there's clear examples of entitlement on both sides, for example each update that comes out is going to speak to one role more than the other and create a divide within the community player base... perks are modified to either help or hinder either side further feeding into the feeling of entitlement... survivors being given more skins than killers or vise versa feeds into the feeling of entitlement and favoritism... i think the developers potentially worked to create a sense of competition through these means but may have in a sense backfired and become the basis of player entitlement that the community has picked up and ran with...
amongst that it feels as though with the survivors their are two subsets, again simply from the perspective of a viewer... those being one group that essentially want to get into a match and attack generators, run loops and have a challenging but FUN match and understand that a killer can be challenging AND fun / enjoyable at the same time, those players typically seem to be chill in post chat with a "gg" for example... the other subset seem to be those who want the killer to allow generators to pop and if they hook anyone it's tunneling and HOW COULD YOU!... basically the asshats, or anyone you would generally encounter on overwatch...
and it's really the same for killers... there are two kinds... the killer who enjoys a balanced game where the chase is the objective and if they win, great! but if not that's fine too as long as it was a fun game where people aren't relentlessly teabagging and being jerks that's all that really matters... or you get nurses and pinheads...
which is why i feel it's hard to say that one side is more entitled over the other, it's shades of grey... i feel like for the most part the majority of games i see are balanced and people just want to enjoy the game but it's the minority that are heard the loudest... but again, i don't play the game myself, i purely spectate but my experience with the game, i feel largely due to who i experience the game through is generally quite positive, so you know.. i don't know how valid any of that is lol...
that said, i thoroughly enjoy and look forward to these videos... great job again gary!
Killer main here. I mostly main Michael Myers because based on add-ons you can completely change the type of meta gameplay of the match. There seem to be entitled players on both sides, but entitled players seem to gravitate to being survivor mains. I've got about 2k hours in the game so I'm not on Otzdarva or similar players levels, but I'm definitely better than bot players. It's interesting you bring up the Dunning Kreuger effect because it's been my experience that only midwits tend to do that and they don't seem to understand it applies to them as well.
That said, I'm definitely what many survivors would call toxic because I don't use the Survivor Rulebook when I am making meta decisions during a match. However I'm not toxic in how I personally view players like SpooknJukes are. If I play toxic, I expect survivors to send me mean messages and cry and complain as they tend to attract more entitled players. I'd never suggest someone be banned because of the content of the messages they send. Trash talking is a staple of online play.
Great video! You've earned a new sub!
im very glad you said both, its what i thought right at the beginning c:
Well it's 7.0.0 and I'm gonna be honest; I did leave DBD when Demo left the game as a Killer Main, got busy with life, didn't get hurt by the game. Then I came back and became a Survivor main in Japan, because the community was too crazy as a survivor so I hopped on board due to unbelievable survivor skill and learned. Then I left again when Dead hard died, not due to dead hard, just got bored. Now I'm back again as a Killer main, but I also enjoy Survivor and tbh; I think people just need a break from the game and come back fresh faced to a different main. So then overtime it'll become more friendly. Tho at the same time, dead hard isn't that bad tbh; I still use it as Survivor and I'm high mmr. Tho killer is getting slightly easier, but survivor feels a little more enticing to play with different builds now . Idk, it seems people gotta stop being entitled to a certain main and switch it up or take a break; it's good for the soul
TheHotCross: blurs twitter handle
me: it's true talent
As someone who is inexperienced at the game, plays both sides, and doesn’t know the meta nor pro strats and all, I didn’t mind the update at all. I just saw it as a way to try new things. Although change is rough to deal with, I already play DBD for fun, so I wasn’t concerned with taking the changes seriously.
Sadly, a friend of mine didn’t see it the same way, and had actually both quit the game and gone on to negatively review the game on Steam just because of it. This video definitely helps me understand his reasoning better, but it still just confuses me on why it was such a big deal for both him and others. Sure, there’s times to take the game seriously, but it’s not worth quitting a game you’ve poured hundreds of hours and dollars into just because of stubbornness to not change. The odd thing is that he plays killer more than survivor, so he theoretically should’ve liked this update. But I guess things change.
At least, even if I don’t have a buddy for survivor anymore, and I’m now forced to solo queue, I’m still having fun doing whatever I want. Shame that both my friend and others don’t always share this mindset.
Survivors are more toxic, and this is coming from a surv main. I’ve had many times where I message the killer and we have a nice chat, say gg, and maybe even becomes friends and play together again. Like for example I played with a plague who was pretty inexperienced with the killer, they were struggling and I kept them busy all match while everyone else did gens. I got facecamped and died when I finally ran out of pallets, everyone else got out. I had a friendly chat with the plague, I was even cracking jokes about the match. Then I gave some friendly tips on how to better play plague. I’ve had so many friendly interactions with killers compared to my own teammates. When playing as killer myself, I’m far more likely to get “kys” messages. They’ve even left these voice messages screaming a bunch of slurs, like why? Just because they lost a match in some video game?
The funny thing is, even when a killer is toxic to me, most of the time the other survs were being assholes all match, and were possibly in a party and playing together. So they group me in with them. Honestly, no hard feelings cause I know playing killer is super frustrating when they’re in a party and team up to bully a killer. Literally 99% of the time, survs are the ones being assholes for no reason. People are so competitive and it just ruins the fun honestly.
Just sayin. Only one side is telling the other side to play suboptimaly in order to make the game more fun and easier for them.
I really do think it’s the survivor side that actually is more entitled overall. The nature of the perspective of the killer being the “power” role makes many survivors become defensive when they loose. That also leads to the group psychology of teaming up and verbally beating up on the lone individual killer more likely. Not being part of the “power” role and loosing can feel to a survivor like the game was not fair. Killers do also generally have limited vision do to the difference in having a third person camera vs a third person camera. I’ve seen so many examples of survivors not understanding that a killer just happened to only see them shortly after an unhook and then be accused of tunneling even though they where the only target they knew the location of in that moment. Not chasing that person would feel like wasting time and you don’t know when you’ll find another survivor. So there is a lot of misunderstanding.
I think this is overall problem is pretty much baked into the game unintentionally by design. By the nature of the game, mechanically and thematically the killer is the antagonist. The bad guy in the story. “They’re trying to kill me. I’m just trying to get away with my life. They are evil!” While after playing this game for awhile it does loose some of that feeling and becomes more “sport” like, however the baseline theme and feeling is still baked into the core of the game. Killer will always be seen on some level as the antagonizer of the game. And of course that’s how it should be. Killers in the story are the bad guys. However I think on a subconscious level, in the heat of the moment, and right afterwards it can be hard for survivors to separate that from the most likely perfectly normal person on the other side.
Also, no matter what happens killers will be able to play an entire match from beginning to end. Survivors can be taken out of the game and forced to wait for their friends to finish or move on early. Survivors are also forced to just sit and wait for half the time they are on hook. So from the survivor side it feels like the killer is limiting their game time. Perhaps waisting their time. And they have to fight against them to keep playing the game. This is where I believe underlies the “unfun” label survivors will throw at killers at the end of a match.
Here's my take. Both sides can be horribly toxic. But when a killer is toxic to men he hits me on hook or always shakes his head no. When a survivor is being toxic, I get sent messages on my actual profile telling me to die, even if the survivors won.
There’s data that show killers weren’t getting kills. The devs even said the numbers were way too low during the 6th anniversary lol.
This topic really doesn't need a video to know the answer to
My theory is, both sides are toxic. Both **Proportionally** are equally toxic. But in each match, there is 4 survivors Vs 1.
Say 1 in 10 players are toxic.
You play 10 games, get one toxic killer.
You play the same amount of games as killer, and you are more likely to get about 3, 4 toxic survivors in those games.
Average toxic player is still 1/10, but there is literally just more survivors in a game.
Obviously, these can go the other way. Chill players are still as common on both sides, but there is physically more nice survivors.
Amazing video glad I found someone who tackles these kinds of issues in this game. Completely agree on both sides being entitled. Been trying both sides for awhile and I can see both very well and I gotta say being able to sit on the fence like this and not be stuck on one side feels pretty nice.
I saw the title and immediately thought survivor
Me who plays both but more on killer plays, base on what I've noticed playing the game, I only see other survs players who actually complaining are new ones and old ones (prestige 50 up). In the killer side, I notice when I play survs is the killer only complains when they're caught cheating, bad day etc.
Make ranked games to randomly allocate roles, that way the line between killers and survivors will slowly disappear, you can play the role you want but only after every few games to help players get the role they want. A slow process but potentially effective.
The radicalization of rhetoric and Us vs. Them mentality of the DbD community is just mirroring larger parts of our overall society. In DbD, we have social influencers with their innate personality flaws and biases speaking on and supporting issues they may not be that knowledgable about. This is reflected in our own celebrity culture as well.
It's highly worrying when people do this because it reflects on our age-old tribalist ways and how we seem to be falling back into them instead of becoming true individualists who question everything and have our own thoughts and opinions.
Part of me suspects that perhaps a part of our community doesn't have that capability to self reflect, since they seem to be actively taking influencer opinions as gospel.
I may get frustrated in game sometimes but try to let it go afterwards. I don't think I've played long enough to feel entitled to anything in the game lol. I never mastered dead hard. My thoughts: I do not work at behavior or own the company so they can technically do what they want with it. Honestly I can see how if you play for thousands of hours, it could get boring. We need somewhat consistent changes to spice the game up. I try to imagine the other side is a person like me just trying to have fun. I agree with your video. Good content. I need to remember to work hard to get rid of entitlement ideology in myself