Remember When Doctor Who Became Space Jesus?
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Despite the acclaimed episode 'Utopia' the Doctor Who Series 3 finale is widely disliked by fans. So what makes 'Last of the Time Lords' bad and can it actually be redeemed?
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You did a fantastic job on your analysis of this episode. I really enjoyed it
The way you talk gives me violent urges. I possibly hate you more than this episode.
Love the fact you hearted that comment
great vid. I disagree with you about Martha. She goes back the second time and pretty much asks if there is a chance.
Going back and asking is brave. she asks if he's interested. she has seen how short life is, and she IS interested.
she basically walks up to a demigod, the man they call the oncoming storm, and says: hey life is too short, I don't want to leave here without knowing. I don't want to move forward wondering what might have been. wanna go for coffee?
it seems right to me because she accepts his answer and walks away. very martha to me.
Am I the only one who holds no issue about the Doctor showing a little less vaguely-defined godlike powers in this episode? This is still not as abusive as The Impossible Girl... or that mythos-wrecking abomination named The Timeless Child.
This episode actually got my friend to watch Doctor Who. He told me "There's no way The Doctor turns into a Goblin, T-Poses, floats towards the enemy, and wins."
all while everyone on the planet chants his name so he can fly
that’s a great description
This is how I'm gonna pitch the show to my girlfriend lmao
@SLAV1STAN 1
Ha ha, that’s funny.
@@taladavidson5400 What is this this Dragonball?
Everyone: thinks the word doctor*
Some random pediatrician: unlimited POWER!!!
🤣🤣🤣
Not just medical doctors but everyone with a doctorate degree, they all become Jesus.
So we have that bastard for a Gallifreayean Jesus ?
Beautiful. XD
😂😂😂😂
I actually really disagree with the idea that her leaving because she was in love with the doctor devalues her journey. it's exactly what shows how much she has grown. she's choosing to leave to be with her family and because she has realised that she deserves better than someone who will never love her back. she doesn't need to his validation anymore. she has always been brilliant without him but in that moment she finally sees it.
I think the problem is the love storyline throughout the whole series. Yes it works with the storyline how it is, but with rose’s love storyline in series 2, I think the argument is it a storyline that de-values Martha’s character and so shouldn’t have been there meaning it isn’t needed giving her a stronger ending. Yes though I agree with you for this episode with the storyline it makes sense
@@tomwinterbourne3693 But it was intentionally written this way. I remember once seeing an interview with RTD where he includes the statement regarding the series as "unrequited love". Martha never had a chance, but she made a good choice leaving at the end and her life was all the more better for it ... and for Mickey Smith!
I agree. I find it incredibly empowering and demonstrates her growth as a character immensely. She has developed enough self worth and dignity to know when to leave a toxic situation and leaves a relationship she knows will never fulfill her the way she wants it to. So, so many strong and wonderful people struggle with that and subject themselves to settling for scraps. I don't think it devalues her journey either.
@@hmsljj
I agree that it was written intentionally. Specifically due to the fact that Rose has always been and will always be RTD's Perfect Companion(tm), meaning all other travellers of the TARDIS are purely written to contrast them to Rose and how they just can't be with the Doctor ultimately.
Same thing with Adam in Series 1 -- although Adam was worse, because he existed *solely* for the purpose of showing everybody how utterly amazing Rose was, and how perfect her relationship with the Doctor was. Of course, the whole Meta-Crisis Doctor plot was written specifically so that Rose could have a Ten to keep forever. And speaking of _Journey's End_ , I'd say at the very least it can be argued that Donna's ending was written that way by Russell because only Rose is allowed to grow while travelling with the Doctor in a way that results in a happy ending.
The point being: just because it was intentional, doesn't mean it's good storytelling or good Character Writing. Certainly the Martha-Ten relationship is neither.
@@AhsimNreiziev Well said however for me Martha had one of the better story arcs beginning with a student in love with a hero, to a bad ass woman who helped save the world. When she leaves the Tardis she fearless and pretty much can do anything she wants. And where she ends up in "Journey's End" and afterwards pretty much bears this out.
My own counterpoint to the space Jesus thing. As mentioned, humans are supposed to have great, if generally untapped, psychic power - it's restated and reinforced time and again throughout the show. So Martha isn't just tapping into that to break archangel, she's manipulating the collective psychic might of the entire human race to give the Doctor an edge. Because it's not just the word "Doctor" that all those people would have been thinking about. There's also the image that comes with it, the image that Martha herself put in their heads to convince everyone to go along with that plan: the image of a deific, unstoppable figure that can turn any situation around no matter how bleak it seems, that doesn't stop until it saves the day, that can do _anything_ . And for just a single moment, humanity turns that vision into reality and transforms the Doctor into an avatar of their image of him.
Call me sappy, call it Power Of Friendship BS, I say it's the _show_ counterpart to all the times we're _told_ how much psychic potential humans have; the ultimate expression of the power of humanity and the payoff for the doctor's praise of humanity's tenacity and will to survive in Utopia.
I'd argue that just because it was set up, doesn't mean it wasn't silly. And it was very silly to me.
@@JHawke1 Fair enough. I'l concede that if they'd just had him walk instead of floaty t-pose it probably would've gone over better.
^This.
Well, given the fact that Chibnall turned the Doctor into a literal god, space Jesus isn't to out there.
As I recall, the plan used Archangel to gather and magnify that psychic energy.
The CG reminds me of regeneration energy, but blue, so I figured it's a thing the doctor can do, but normally lacks the power for.
But walking would have been cooler.
I like this episode also john simm is currently outside my house
As long as he doesn't start shooting at Tom Ellis then you're fine.
@@tawhid765 he's the devil now, he'll be fine 😈
Let him in he just wants some hot coco
Is he still outside your house? It's time to let him in, he just wants to bring about the end of the universe...
I get why you said that about Martha's goodbye but I kind of liked that she stood up and essentially said "i'm not gonna keep being second best" cos even without the love arc, the doctor did constantly put Martha down cos of Rose. If you were friends with someone imagine how hurtful it would be to constantly be compared to another friend they used to have? I liked that she called him out on his behaviour cos she didn't deserve it. She was worth more than being the doctor's "rebound". And I'm glad she saw her self worth.
Martha's departure is what sets up the interaction with Donna being clear the he just wants "A mate" not "to mate".
Hm.
Nah bro, he didn't become Space Jesus. That looks nothing like Ewan McGregor.
Theory: Obi Wan is a time lord and didn't die in episode 4, he just used a vortex manipulator.
@@snithnorddarthbathrobe6928 xD
*hello there*
@@taladavidson5400 genreal Kenobi (sorry for spelling)
Ewan McGregor as the Doctor would actually be pretty awesome.
I've always interpreted the bit with Martha talking about her and the Doctor's relationship as her finally calling the Doctor out for how horribly he's treated her all season. I guess I can see how you could read it as devaluing her character, but I've always read it as a strength and it's one of my favorite moments in the show
I agree most heartily.
That's how I saw it tbh.
Martha has always been my favorite companion from Ten's time.
It's not too easy, as I don't dislike Rose, Donna, or even Jack. But the 3rd season of Nu Who is my favorite season, and Martha Jones is the reason. ❤
Harbo analyses Doctor Who more than English teachers analyse a single line of a poem
But... he does such a good job at it...
Ok that's going too far lol
That is not possible
Reminds me of the “Where can my pipe be” dissertation by lasagna cat.
"But WHY is Ten's suit blue?"
Man, Martha really was (and is) criminally underrated as a companion!
I know, right? Ich think auch mostly an the other Companions, like Rose oder Amy ... but a lot of really gute Episoden (like "Nicht Blinzeln" ) are with Ihr!
@@bjarne3521 Germglish?
The fact that she had the best character arc of the modern companions makes it worse
@@bjarne3521 ist this eine weird engdeutlisch?
She was Leng ngl 🤣
One thing I really like in this three-parter that no one really talks about is the Master's use of "Toclaphane" (sp?) as the name of the invaders. He could've picked any name, but he goes for one that the Doctor will KNOW is fake. It seemed like a deliberate attempt to confuse and unhorse him personally.
The master has always been playing for the audience of.. one? no two, himself and the Doctor... heck mostly for the Doctor.
Has to send signals to the Doctor specifically all the time. He wants the Doctor to know it was HIM and HIS plan that is at work, not some random fate.
The issue with the space jesus bit is that the archangel network hadn't really been established very well beforehand other than saying it caused everyone to vote for the Master, which made it feel like it de-aging the doctor came out of left-field. They could've fixed this by having the Master use the psychic network to age the Doctor initially instead of using a laser screwdriver, or even maybe just by throwing in a dumb line about the laser screwdriver harnessing the power of the network.
I love how the Master's death in this mirrors Missy's death in Dr Falls. The Dr wants to take away his agency and rehabilitate him, Missy wants to change who the Master and gives him no say in the Matter= same result, suicide. Aa soon as you take away power from the Master, he's at his most dangerous and reckless. People have said it's out of character for someone who insists on never dying but that misses the point. The reason he does that isn't because he wants to live, he wants agency, if he had to choose between his life or control over his life, he'll always choose the latter. Davies and Moffat really got this character.
And then Chibs came along...
@@applecoreeater Tbh one of things Chibnall has done well, Missy's arc aside, is the Sacha Master. I hate the timeless child but the way the Master reacted to that makes perfect sense
Interetsing interpretation! Personally, I like to think that the Master never cared about living forever. He cared about beating the Doctor, at all costs. And he'd live for millennia on millennia's end until he succeeded. But if the only way to beat the Doctor is to die, he'd die happy, as he does here. _"How about that? I win!"_ Probably one of my favourite lines, and bonus points for mirroring Dalek's _"I win. How about that?"_ Wish the show explored winning as a loss more often, complicated stuff.
I like that the Master's entire motivation revolves around the Doctor - _but why?_ Why is he so bitter? Repressed homosexuality maybe...? Pretty sure that's Russell's answer.
@@nightowl8477 Tbh the more the Master's entire motivation revolves around the Doctor the less interesting he is to me. It kinda put me off Missy and its bugging me a bit with Dhawan as well. It would kinda be like if all the Doctor did was fight the Master and no other monsters. There should be that obsession but it shouldn't be the only motive they have
As for why-- it's largely resentment for his failures at this point. The Master sense of superiority is called into question if he is defeated so the Doctor is walking evidence that what he wants to be doesn't match the reality. Hence the Master's line here "it's my turn! Revenge! Best served hot!" Even when everything's changed, timelords are dead, he still can't let go of all those humiliations. He could just about stomach being equals if they were both all-powerful together (see times when he makes the Doctor an offer) but while there's more power to be gained everyone else is competition. And if there's evidence that the Dr is the better of the two... well then you get the Timeless Child reaction.
Even if the Doctor had never defeated him, he's also a link back to a time when he was a child, was a student. The Master has a lot of nostalgia for those times and still has affection for the Doctor but I'd imagine that he doesn't love reminders that he's just another person. Gods aren't supposed to have childhood friends.
Agreed, it was always about agency. Reminds me of the Big Finish audio "Master" too-
Master: This discussion is worthless. I want existence back. My power.
Doctor: And I want my old friend back!
I'm OK with the reset, because it does still have consequences. Martha's family are the only ones on earth who remember that year, so they have nobody else to help them through that trauma. That's probably part of the reason Martha leaves the doctor. We know it was to be there for her family, but it could be because she's the only one who could be
Don't forget how confused Leo would be
@@HarboWholmes my god, yeah! Forgot about poor Leo
It's time for the first time I'm gonna say this in this series
Wait, people hate this episode?
I denke this auch immer! I mean, ja, there are a lot of goofy und seltsame moments, aber I had trotzdem a lot of fun watching the Episode...
Just the end of it....
Only the Moffat fan boys hate it. Real fans know it’s great
@@justsomerandomguyonline1144 yh i loved it growing up
@@justsomerandomguyonline1144 I think I can define myself a Moffat fungirl (the screenwriter, not the showrunner) but I always like it very much.
The Toclafane reveal is one of the best twists in the series imo. Chilling.
I want to stick one in my butt!
I like the final part of Jack trying to get into the Tardis. You don't see it on screen, but it strongly implies that the Toclafane killed him over and over and over again as he edged closer each time, only eventually reaching the goal.
Eight years later, this was the exact plot of Heaven Sent
I really disagree about the Martha ending. It definitely makes sense that she leaves to look after her family (as you mentioned!) but I think if she'd have left without addressing her love for The Doctor, it wouldn't have done justice to her character. The reason she comes back is to call out his behaviour towards her, make him see how hes disregarded her feelings and she does that for herself. She's leaving because she doesn't need Ten's approval or validation anymore, she has earnt it herself and she finally sees that she deserves a better life than one he can offer her. She is brave for telling him the truth and accepting the man she loves will never love her back but braver still for deciding that she is worth more and leaving him.
I just wish we'd have had an insight into how she'd met Mickey. I think the two companions that were in unrequited love with the other two main characters could've had a really interesting dynamic and a really lovely story told on screen.
Well said!
In my mind I like to think the reason Martha and Mickey got together was due to both experienced thanks to the Doctor. I think Tom being a normal bloke who has never aliens monsters or the Doctor it might've been tough for Martha at times. Whereas Mickley having lived through similar experiences is able to understand Martha and vice versa.
I'm reminded or Gwen and Owen's brief affair in Torchwood series 1, Gwen needed someone who she could confide in after everything she'd seen but couldn't to Reese cause he wouldn't understand.
I never expected to read or think about this topic, you wrote well.
But I think there's a fundamental mistake in the series plot making the Dr "romance material", he is an alien benevolent figure of extreme age not a human that will settle down to home making. Having chemistry with equals, other time lords makes much more sense, creating a possibility that he could move on from being a protector of humans.
@@RobBCactive Doesn't matter if The Doctor is "romance material", it's the message of the story that has value. As a young teenager I learnt a ton from Martha's story and gain a self-respect that, in retrospect, was because she taught me about it. This was a great message to send to the young audience of Who at the time.
Completely agree. Elegantly put!
The ending of season 3 has always been my favourite finale(right up there with Stolen Earth/Journey's End)! It was so refreshing after two seasons of dalek finales and I always loved Martha being the one to choose to leave the doctor and that the door was left open for her to come back anytime, unlike the exits of Rose & Donna etc.
Wait people don't like this one either? How am I supposed to keep up with the ridiculous whims of this wretched fandom?
Simple. Just assume none of the episodes is liked. For every, and I mean every episode of Doctor Who you'll find a fan that hates it. For example, I hate Caves of Androzani.
Of course it has a flip side as well, every episode has someone who likes it. It's just that there might be more or less of these.
Well, luckily there is no more DW to hate since it ended with series 10 ;)
@@mattevans4377 So denying the existence of series you hate is not the same as hating ?
@@jujublue4426 it's called a joke...
Who knows? There are people who didn't like series 11. I'm as lost as you are.
Such a funny ending lol. I actually quite like the episode other than anything with the Doctor
i gotta disagree with you on the martha exit scene man, the fact that she leaves because her feelings are unrequited (and the fact that she confront's the doctor about it, even though it's through the story of what happened to a friend and not directly) that allows her get over him as she finally admits to him and herself that he doesn't feel the same, that's a conversation that must be had to put those feelings behind, and by putting them behind she finally becomes truly independent of the doctor, at the very least that's what i think, but hey that's just an opinon
That's what I think too!
Martha was (and still is) my favourite companion since watching New Who the first time as a young teenager, and I have to say I had unknowingly took on Martha's life philosophy because I admired her so much. She helped me navigate difficult friendship, unrequited love, relationships that became unbalanced, and career goals too.
Martha is amazing; her self respect is amazing; her compassion, strength, resilience... are all amazing.
I just love watching David Tennant T-Possng menacingly at John Simms. Without context it is hilarious. With context it's even more hilarious.
Only 15 minutes through but the mention of Martha not looking like a killer made me think about how that flips in s4, with Martha being the one threatening to use the Oster Hagen key.
After spending time with UNIT, I can see how that could have changed her mind.
My friends : "wow I can't believe she betrayed him, bad writing"
Me from the beginning: "SHE HAD A BLACK EYE!"
I'm so glad someone pointed out her makeup-covered bruise. I started feeling crazy talking to my friends.
I love and miss John Simm's Master immensely. He captured the insanity, desperation, and ego of the character so perfectly.
I feel like the only reason people hate this, is because of the resolution. I too hate it, but the rest is fine for me.
Blobfish I found it cringy when everyone in the word started chanting the dr by name. I just can't handle that scene.
@@Betty9971 sameee
Martha's 2nd departure was necessary for her to be honest with the Doctor and with herself. She recognized her 'love' for the Doctor would never be returned, and so she makes the decision to leave, but not with out sharing her heart. She is braver than the Doctor, because she doesn't run away, as the Doctor tends to do, but confronts her feelings and the Doctor's lack of them, and does so with her head held high, and her heart able to recover, rather than holding on her true feelings.
This is why I prefer Martha over Rose. Thank you for helping me justify it. Subscribed.
I still liked Rose. Sarah Jane will always be my number 1. Romana II (Lalla Ward) #2. Romana 1 (Mary Tamm) #3. Leela #4, Amelia Pond #6, Clara Oswald #7, Zoey #8, Martha #9, Rose #10, Nyssa #9, Ace #10, and Mel #11. These are favorites, I have like Jaimie, Tegan, and the rest. They are just not Top 11.
Dr Donna is my favorite!
@Ikey Ilex someone had to say it 😂
@Ikey Ilex don't disagree she's gorgeous, but that makes clara a 15/10 her character aside
I am just curious but why?
Russell T Davis is a fantastic (as the Chris Eccleston Doctor would say) writer. Although I did not like the "Space Jesus" moment, or the whole premise of the series 3 finale, the shows were still well written, performed, editted, etc.
Martha Jones in my opinion is hands down the best companion. In their first meeting, after her entire hospital was teleported to the moon, she meets the Doctor--and not knowing who he is--she tells him everything is going to be alright and that somehow they'll get home. BADASS. Also in the episode when the Doctor functionally makes himself human, there is a scene when she and the Doctor (who at the time has no knowledge of who he was and what he's capable of) are surrounded and she tells him to run while she defends him in a sort of last stand. She's fucking BOSS and will always be my favorite companion.
I can understand your criticism of Martha's leaving but I thought it was actually stronger than people give it credit for. She was always to scared to admit her feeling for the doctor and her last act was to admit, "yes I have feelings for you but I'm strong enough to accept that you don't and so I'm taking action instead of waiting hopelessly"
I have to disagree with your opinion on Martha's departure. The thing about her character arc is that she's always wanted an escape from the drama she suffers with her family and so immediately chases after the Doctor to be given a chance to be free. However, she was trapped as the rebound companion and always felt like she wasn't seen, making her doubt herself. As we see her character grow throughout the episodes, Martha starts to learn that she doesn't need the Doctor and didn't need to escape her life, she simply had to improve it by gaining confidence in herself which led her to eventually saving the world without him. From this, she knows that chasing after the Doctor to gain his love is hopeless and her family needs her more. Admitting her love for him was the perfect way of getting over him, getting her unrequited love off her chest so that she would finally be able to move on.
And she did. Martha Jones is a legend and no one can tell me otherwise.
To be honest, if Martha hadn't told him that she loved him then maybe he wouldn't have realised that he was ignoring her and focusing too much on Rose. I think this why he barely talks about her in Series 4 as he has started to move on. Whilst he is happy to see her in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End, their relationship isn't as strong as it used to be and they have both equally changed during their time away. At the end, he made a difficult sacrifice and left Rose on Parallel Earth with the human version of him, giving her a chance to grow old with him. This was his way of moving on from her. In a way, Martha was the catalyst for it.
Barty Crouch Jr. fought his dad before becoming Dobby? Trippy.
My brain broke... send help....
I love this comment so much lol 😂
I love how Lucy changes and progresses throughout the series.
She finds the strength to defy him, end him and even prepares ahead for when he returns later on.
She was so easily lead by him until reality set in, but she didn't crumble - instead she found strength.
I just rewatched this episode. I noticed at the end, after Francine almost shoots the Master (why oh why do they cut this from broadcast?), Lucy carefully and intently watches the Doctor. When he says he won't kill the Master but plans to "keep" him, Lucy immediately and quietly moves to get the gun Francine dropped.
Lucy was willing to let others take care of the matter until she found out he wasn't going to be executed. Then she immediately moved to do it herself. It was only on the rewatch that I was paying close attention to her in that moment, to each facial twitch, each blink, to try to see inside her head.
That's just one of the many things I love about DW. The attention paid to small background things that make watching it again and again more than just a trip down memory lane. 😀
I do have to say: the part of "I Can't Decide" they play in the episode (the chorus and bridge), is a near perfect summary of The Master and The Doctor's relationship
"I can't decide
whether you should live or die
oh you'll probably go to heaven
please don't hang your head and cry
I wonder why my heart feels dead inside
it's cold and hard and petrified
lock the doors, and close the blinds
we're going for a ride
Oh I could throw you in a lake
or feed you poisoned birthday cake
I won't deny
I'm gonna miss you when you're gone
Oh I could bury you alive
But you might crawl out with a knife
and kill me while I'm sleeping..."
Great analysis as always, and I appreciate how much effort you've put into The Master Trilogy!
Hey, ich liebe den Song!
Oh damn
@@tatertatertatertatertater I've rewatched this trilogy too many times to count. "Sound of Drums" in particular might be my favourite Davies script (give or take "Turn Left" and "The Waters of Mars"
@@radenbowerman9349 Yeah it's quite the banger, one of my faves too!
One minute in and I could not agree more. Honestly this is an incredible finale that is overhated because of the ending which isn't even that bad. One thing i have said many times on your discord is that if the story is good enough to back up a meh ending then its not a bad story at all which is something that in my opinion the Chibnall era gets so wrong that the story doesn't back up the ending. The ending isn't bad at all and the Space Jesus moment isn't bad at all and isn't the main ending. Just finished the video and i completely agree with every point. This episode is strong, dark and subtle in its excellent storytelling.
I loved the whole story from day 1! I'm glad I didn't really par-take in the fanbase discussion back in the day that I enjoyed this story for many many years not knowing it was disliked by some people.
With regards to Martha's leaving, I actually think it was genuinely necessary for her to come back and tell the Doctor how she felt about him. It's not just her telling him she fancied him, it's her calling out his bad treatment of her (having spent the entire series essentially trying to use her as "Rose 2.0") and also demonstrating for the first time that she's no longer dependant on his validation. The guilty look on the Doctor's face after her comment about her friend's crush "never looking at her twice" heavily implies that he is on some level aware of what he's been doing and it's really the first moment that Martha is able to truly obtain the high ground in their relationship (since the rest of her actions in this episode were dictated by the Doctor telling her what to do at the end of the previous episode before she teleported off the Valiant). If you think about it, the Doctor has spent the entire series either genuinely unaware or else (more likely) pretending not to notice how Martha felt about him simply because it didn't suit him to acknowledge it; Martha makes the reality of their relationship explicit and points out just how unhealthy their dynamic was for her. It's hardly a bad thing. Plus I don't think it's a coincidence that the Doctor very rarely brings up Rose going forward from this point or that he is subsequently very open with Donna with regards to the type of relationship he needs/wants - it allows him the chance to realise how his obsession with Rose is hindering his ability to move on and to at least begin to get over her.
Last of the Time Lords is S tier and I will hear no different!
Also, what New Who finale DOESN'T end with a deus ex machina?
The Parting of the Ways: Rose opens the heart of the TARDIS and becomes a Godlike figure, erasing the Daleks
Doomsday: the Doctor sucks all the Daleks and Cybermen into the void
Last of the Time Lords: the Doctor and all the people Martha has spoken to use the Archangel Network to undo what the Master did to the Doctor, and Jack destroys the Paradox Machine which was always meant to create a future that broke the laws of time
Journey's End: Donna becomes part Time Lord and hacks the Crucible, and the half-human Doctor destroys the Daleks
The End of Time: the Doctor shoots the machine the Master is using to drag the Time Lords out of the Time Lock, and the Master takes revenge on Rassillon for the torment of the drumbeat (honestly I think this resolution is the *least* deus ex machina)
The Big Bang: the Doctor flies into the TARDIS explosion, erasing himself from existence, until Amy... remembers him back into being? This was the first Doctor Who finale to leave a sour taste in my mouth as it blatantly contradicts itself
The Wedding of River Song: this is when I properly started hating Moffat as the resolution is literally just "lol it wasn't the Doctor it was that fake thing from Let's Kill Hitler"
I can't really remember the later Moffat finales as I disengaged from the show a lot at that point, but they all felt like deus ex machina which *didn't* make sense in universe at all, whilst at least Russell's last-minute resolutions had explanations. To me, it's about the character beats, not whether or not the scifi actually holds up (because it very rarely does lol), and Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords nails every single character beat *perfectly* in my view. S tier ×3!!!
I feel the RTD era endings work with the Deus Ex Machinas since theres often a cost that comes with each godly act he ends up performing despite the increasing absurdity of its scale. it becomes more believable due to that loss in turn, no matter what form it takes.
I cannot comment on the Moffat era however.
I actually really like this episode. Especially the scene at the end where the Master is cremated
I first thought that there stands “crewmated”.🤣😂
kinda sus bro
That was a complete ripoff of Return of the Jedi with Luke burying Vader. Cringe.
the biggest fault of this series is bad CGI. Hybrid Sec, Lazarus Monster, Tiny Doctor. i mean compared to now yes that CGI hasn't aged well. but series 3 as a whole is a solid series and is underrated and needs more love. Martha also needs more love. I love her speech scene and i love how she leaves the TARDIS. she chooses to leave of her own accord. she chooses her family over the Doctor. she gets over him. Martha really shine sin the episode and putting her front and centre for most of episode is brilliant. Have i mentioned how much i love this series? you probably sick of me gushing about series 3 but honestly i could talk about it a lot. It really is so good.
pretty sure hybrid sec is an animatronic.
I've always said that Russell has a finale problem. He doesn't just throw in the kitchen sink, he rips the plumbing out of the walls and throws in the bathtub as well. In this case, he had the Master to use and, well, he barely did in favour of Doctor grandad/goblin and a literal song and dance number.
I LOVE your defence of Martha, especially the comparison btwn Rose becoming a God and Martha saving the world through sheer intelligence and hard work
I truly believe that the "I was kissed by the Doctor once and now I'm in love with him" is what really ruins Martha for me. I love your advocacy for Martha and case that she is by far one of the best companions. I agree that if RTD left her story at "My family needs me" and left, I would have considered that redeemable. My problem with this character assassination for Martha is my issue with modern DW as a whole. Men who *have* to give a woman love interest in the Doctor. Having Martha break that infatuation she had with him and her "love" for him would have simply made her the best for me.
A very long rest? No way! Season 4 is coming!
Just joking. You deserve it. Thanks for all the videos you made for us
The grind continues, don't worry! Still got that weekly schedule going
Martha definitely had it the best out of the nu-who companions. She doesn’t die, or lose her memories or says goodbye.
Don't lie u Wana spread Martha's cheeks 😂
Refuses to blow up the planet because he doesn't want to die but refuses to regenerate.
I've just realised... Donna and Co would've had to live through an apocalypse twice
What do you mean?
@@stevenhale2935 This, and Turn Left.
@@MintyCoffee ahhh but if Donna the bride hadn't stopped him from drowning in the Thames then he wouldn't have brought the Saxon master to earth, right?
@@MintyCoffee This is so timey wimey it's hurting my head lol
My brother had to study Martha's Valiant Speech scene when he was at college cus he was doing a media course and then he decided to watch the full episode then the full series. he is not a huge fan of Doctor Who unlike me who loves it but he deffo said that Series 3 if very good and he can see why that scene was chose for him to analyse in class. He dips in and out of the show and keeps himself casually aware of it which is good enough for me with my bro. I love Series 3 as a whole and i like this episode. for me it is one of the strongest finale's of the show. Great moments and stuff, solid writing and great acting. I likes it a lot.
Good to see others with the justified Martha love.
I always thought the Master's "wife" to be brainwashed/hypnotized and suffering a kind of "Stockholm Syndrome" (which actually might not be a real thing it turns out...) and pretty much forced into a horrible submissive, abused relationship where she had little free-will and just mirrored the Master's current emotional state.
I dissagre with your assesment on the scene with the Doctor having "jedi" powers. These are the powers of humanity not of the 10th Doctor. He himself even says that, these are powers granted to him by humanity, and also hitting back at the Master who has always thought of humans as trash, showing him the power humans wield.
As a human I do not have Jedi powers not the ability to grant them, so I agree with the criticism.
@@jtyler9130 Did you miss the part in the video where Harbo Wholmes mentions the fact that humans in the Whoniverse have a low level telepathic abilities which were boosted by the telepatic field that the master used to control everyone?
@@PickyPaige in fact, humanity have almost unparallelled psychic potential in the Whoniverse, but they barely have any access to it
As a human I too am jedi, here is Jesus time powers
5 billion pennies is still 50 Million dollars.... each human gave a penny, the doctor took 50 million dollars of psychic energy. He could have done so much more than conjuring cheap tricks that Jedi use.
Remember when Doctor Who became Space Jesus?
Wait, this isn't The Timeless Children
Then Chris Chibnall came and the Doctor became literal Jesus
more like The Doctor became God.
Even with the deus ex machina, there's stuff I like. I like to see the Master lose finally and just throw a tantrum, after having our heroes get their arses handed to them twice I see why Russell wanted to make it a bit more optimistic for the kids. Plus I like how the floating Dr resembles the Dr apparition shown to the Master in the Mind of Evil, his greatest fear being his enemy being so much more powerful. As for the time-reversal, I get why it had to happen. My answer would have been to just not do the take over the world as the Master being in charge of Britain is stakes enough but the cliffhanger to Sound of Drums is so effective and I like seeing what a world run by the Master would actually look like after years of him trying to take over. I did wonder if the world forgetting what Saxon did was also meant to be a commentary on politicians getting away with stuff in the real world but that's more reflective of the politics of today than back then and it wouldn't be a very good allegory even back then as the Master does face personal consequences and his actions had no lasting damage when the reverse is true in real life.
I dunno. I like that people suggest better endings and they're all really good ideas but I still prefer this, especially the Master's death scene.
Everything after the Master is shot is pretty perfect, really. Though I do agree with Stu's common complaint with RTD, whereby the finale-level threat is wrapped up too early to accommodate for 15 minutes of saying goodbye as characters part ways. But it's only the Cardiff Bay scene I'd remove, everything else is functional enough.
@@nightowl8477 I would agree. Though the reveal of Captain Jack being the Face of Boe... the reveal itself pretty cool and it ties everything together really well I like how casually he says it but what makes it for me is 10 and Martha's reactions.
@@Ben-vf5gk - oh, I'd keep the reveal, just always thought it was a bit of a clunky scene. Not sure where the reveal or Jack would otherwise go, but dropping Jack off back at Cardiff just seems a bit shoehorned in for me. Maybe he should have just teleported. I don't know, but I'd cut down the scenes after the Master's death as much as possible without losing the hood stuff.
Would I call it the worst Davies era finale? Yes. Do I still think it’s fantastic? Yes!
RTD's worst is still better than Moffat and Chibnall's best.
@@ObviouslyKierandefinitely not now, Time of the doctor is way better than empire of death
@@qwart22100% agreed, although what RTD is doing now is out of spite, not writing sincere good episodes.
Once you accept and look past the parts that make you cringe, it’s a very good story. It’s also great to see Lucifer in Doctor Who
What can I say about this season :10th Doctor my least Favorite Doctor, but season 29-my most favorite season and Utopia-The Last of the Time Lords-My Favorite story ever.
Also, "Daleks in Manhattan-Evolution of the Daleks" is the only Daleks story I've ever liked.
42 is this season's only weak link, but even this Story doesn't spoil it.
Chris Chibnall: Space Jesus? What an amateur. I turned the Doctor into space God.
Wow I only just realized Lucifer (Tom Ellis) showed up on Doctor Who
Was literally listening to "This is Gallifrey" when the I saw this drop.
The most nostalgic doctor who score for me. Goddamn what a track!
What an absolute banger!
The Master deciding to die might just be my favorite scene of NewWho. It is so brilliantly acted, the raw emotion always makes me cry.
I completely forgot that Tom Ellis from Lucifer was in this episode.
I honestly love this episode. I don't mind the whole 'Jesus Doctor' parts as its more of a minor thing and also helps show how far the master has fallen so quickly, although I do completely agree with Martha leaving the TARDIS because of the Doctor, I'd much rather prefer it if it was entirely because she wants to look after her family. Either way, if I had to give this episode a ranking, I'd certainly give it an 8.5 or even a 9 out of 10.
These were 3 of my favorite episodes. The “bad” cg in Doctor Who never bothered me either as I never thought of it as “bad” just dated lol. I don’t have much else to say other than thank you! Thank you for shedding some light on what I believe to be some of the best storylines to come out of DW :)
20:10 Heck, back in the day, the Doctor was fairly skilled in an art called "transposition" which allowed him to basically teleport small objects. This scene would have been the perfect time to bring that back.
i never actually minded space jesus lol
Mich hat's auch nie gestört... ich wusste nicht einmal, dass das so ein großer "Sorgenfaktor" war...
16:22 I like this scene of Martha holding the elderly Doctor in her arm while watching the Master go maniacal. The Doctor had always been the one protecting others, saving others, bring other people comfort and hope -- when he was accompanied by Martha, Martha's strong, resilient, and compassionate character allows HER to be the one that does all of that to The Doctor, instead.
Lucky Doctor, he couldn't have ran into a better companion before falling into Harold Saxon's schemes. I doubt Rose or Donna can conceive + do the tasks that Martha achieved in this episode. Heck, I doubt I could do them.
Edit: Oh Amy and Rory together might be able to. Amy by herself... debatable. Rory by himself... Possibly? The made up Timelord-killer weapon idea is so genius that it diverted The Master's attention massively, I think it's a critical part of Martha's plan and I can only see Martha coming up with that idea.
I still remember watching this for this first time in 2007 as we had a new freeview box with a DVD recorder and it was the first thing I recorded.
I actually shed a tear over the Master's death.
Although one can say there were too many flashbacks in this episode, I actually find them very helpful as a visual reminder of what characters are thinking about or referring to, much like in the episode Bad Wolf with the compilation of the Bad Wolf clues in Series 1, not to mention it helps with dialogue and exposition.
Great review Harbo, a well-earned rest for you indeed before wrapping up the Series 3 content with the Christmas special and overall series reviews left.
900 years goblin? Is this a remark at Noah of the ark who was 900 years developing a wooden ship while everyone else was making metal space ships.
I hate how they made Missy caring towards the end of that series and she was becoming good and then she died, and then in Jody's series they made her Male and evil again, it ruins the whole story behind Missy and makes it all pointless.
In my mind, Missy comes after the Sacha Dhawan Master
Honestly I didn’t hate this ending when I first saw it, I just didn’t like how it hit the reset button on the entire world since that meant that only the main cast faced any consequences.
What I want to know is, what happened to everyone who was on the Valiant the day the Master took control but weren't there when time was reversed?
@@KrisFrost4359 They're gone, just like how if someone wasn't on the Valiant on day 0 but was there when the reverse happened there are now 2 of them in the world
They should've set all of Series 3 in the future, maybe the 22nd century. Problem with modern day Earth is it has a status quo that can't be changed too much.
@@cameroncaws8506 Or another planet
@@DeplorableMinecrafter Nah, it would have to be Earth. The Master knows that the Earth is loved and protected by the Doctor.
Best way to get vengeance is to take away what someone loves.
When I first saw those episodes, I was much younger and understood far less about story telling than I do now. To kid me, the episode was just awesome. Now I can look and understand writing oneself into a corner. So for me I partially forgive it, because the master has been my favorite of all the doctor who villains since I first saw that finale.
Given that I'm not in much contact with "Doctor Who fandom", it often surprises me what episodes end up on Defending the Despised lol. Ending was goofy for sure, but this is overall a really good episode in my opinion.
when it comes to Martha’s departure I think that it was actually a good choice to make her come back and tell the Doctor that she fancies him. I never really took that moment as de-valuing her character development because I believed her previous words still applied. I felt that her telling the Doctor that she fancied him was a great character moment because I think that she would live with the regret of never being honest about those feelings, so if anything, I think that her being honest with the Doctor aids is showing her development because she was brave to tell him the truth. Anyway that’s just my two-cents.
These videos are honestly the highlight of my week
I don't remember the opening ever having the alien screen thingy
I didn't know these episodes were hated.They were always some of my favourites😹
Idk as someone who has bad luck in crushes, I always felt like it was good that Martha got to tell off the doctor for acting like the guy who led on her friend, forgiving him for that, and being able to say “my self esteem is good. And yes I might like someone who doesn’t like me back, but leaving helps me show my self respect” or something like that. I’ll have to rewatch and see what I think. Other than that, awesome review! I always liked the end of s3
30:57 I think the reason nobody talks about that moment is because most people don’t know it even exists, and even I didn’t until today. It was one of the bits cut in the version that was added to HBO, Netflix, Amazon and tv reruns, so unless you own the dvd, watched it live or saw it on iplayer (which I did today) you wouldn’t even know it exists. There is actually about 5 minutes of cut material that I just saw today.
Actually the real reason as to why this is so hated is because the attention to detail quite honestly sucks.
Detail issue 1:
In the previous episode it was established that the doctor was aged 100 years by the master. But we know that Gallifreyans age far slower than that, so he really should look far younger than how he looks.
Detail issue 2: in the sound of drums the doctor states that if he touches the wrong part of the paradox machine it would "blow up the solar system." So... what Jack just gets lucky?
Detail issue 3: the doctor could not possibly have intricated himself into the psychic network without having technological access to the 15-satelite backed archangel network because it is a technology based mind control device, Gallifreyans are telepathic but not telekinetic. He'd have needed to have pressed some buttons or pulled some levers or something technological to direct all that psychic energy onto himself.
Detail issue 4: the Lazarus technology used sonic waves on a micro-level, it cannot suspend a "capacity to regenerate", the doctor really should have either died or just become an old man.
Detail issue 5: there's no way in hell the doctor could not have sensed that the master was not dead, if he really could have "sensed that there was another time lord on earth", because the archangel perception filter was broken by him realising that the master was on Earth.
I get what the writers were trying to do: make the doctor out to be a symbol of the greatness of what the human race are when they believe in kindness and mercy, and the master as a symbol of how vile and immature humans are when they believe in selfishness and savagery. Dr who series 3 is basically a Dr who version of "Lord of the flies".
But whilst it is beautiful symbolism, the details cheapen the writing. The difference between brilliant writing and stupid writing is attention to detail.
Dr who is entertaining, but not mainly because of the adventures, the humour, the lessons learnt, the characters or the mysteries. The main reason as to why Dr who is entertaining is because of the cleverness of the writing.
The details are where this finale falls flat for me. It's a textbook thing where the writers degrade their writing by ignoring the very rules they establish and refusal to think objectively about the story, for the sake of thematic drama.
Don't get me wrong I enjoyed parts of the finale: the acting was superb, Jack and the master were very funny, the visual effects of the doctor becoming "space Jesus" were beautiful and the music was awesome.
But the actual plot details were addressed really stupidly by the writers.
a great thing with this episode is that martha got a legit villain monologue and surprise plan reveal, with the master being the one listening and being dumbfounded. companions should get that more.
People don't like this episode?? I loved it as a kid. The performances of Freema, David and John make is so so good.
This episode basically makes humans into orcs using the warp to believe the doctor back.
I never liked how New Who made characters like The Doctor or Clara into these messiah-type characters. I like it better when the story doesn't make them these larger-than-universal beings who are mythologised within the stories themselves.
Fun fact, the master in this incarnation is actually based on Margret Thatcher
Ole Lucifer and Martha team up to help the Timelord space Jesus.
Just like the Bad Wolf and Doctor Donna, is the same Deux Ex Machina.
It's never a bad idea to set aflame something/one on a pyre in in a Welsh quarry.
Hold up, this episode is hated? I really liked it
“Little goblin boy” is coincidentally also what I call my puppy.
Will you be covering the Matt Smith and Peter capaldi eras? I love watching these reviews
Yes
Will you include Series 11 & 12 into the Defending the Despised series? You seem not to like them.
I don't think he's capable of it... At the end of the day these videos are the expression of his opinion, and Harbo has no reason to defend something he doesn't like.
EDIT: Though I would love if he did.
@@_MyNameIsAJ_ Well, because he defended other episodes that fans have deemed as bad. Why should episodes of Series 11 and 12 be any different? It would only be fair. Personally, I think they are great seasons, not flawless but which season is?
@@ptcarbonproductions2013 That’s true, it’s his opinion. 🙂 I Never suggested otherwise and if it seemed that was I apologize.
@@Lia-uf1ir The difference is that we've had years to ponder on these episodes, so opinions have had time to mature and refine. Series 11 and 12 are very much recent memory and there's lots of blood in the water. I'm sure in a few years time when this ongoing review series reaches S11 and 12, Harbo will take a look at them in as much consideration as he has done here.
@@Lia-uf1ir Hey, it's nothing to apologize for. You just asked, as you had a full right to.
Also, ignore the antichibnalls around.
The Waters of Mars is one of my favorite specials. Lookin forward to you reviewing it.
They should've had the doctor hack the screwdriver when he stole it, linking it to the archangel network, and when the master realizes he's being played he threatens the doctor with it, but the psychic energy overrides the master and deages the doctor. That way everything all comes together, and makes it seem clever (even when it's not really).
Master: I'll show you!
*Blasts him with the screwdriver. The Doctor starts deaging*
Master: what? What's happening?
Doctor: I've reversed the polarity of the neutron flow!
Well it needs to feel clever to the viewer , not actually be clever
Ehh...that sounds ok at first, but the idea that he is able to hack the laser screwdriver that fast and undetectably...plus it robs the previous show of the master being in control.
If it was another step removed, that after it failed he instead made a note of the screwdrivers something something and used that later...
A dark and gruelling dystopia narrative, John Simm giving an excellent performance as the Master, the gnarly and dark origins of the Toclafane, and the pitch perfect conclusion to Martha's journey across the series. I think if it weren't for the cheesiness of the "Tinkerbell Jesus" Doctor resolution, this would probably be up there with "The Parting of the Ways" and "The Doctor Falls" as one of the best finales in new Who
Okay, I would like to put it out here right now, that this episode is nowhere near as bad as anyone says it is.
Okay, so the CGI is a bit dodgy, and the Doctor gained the ability to fly, and the whole world had to say his name in the same second, which means the whole ending was a bit anti-climatic.
But still, when you look at all the underrated aspects of this episode like John Simm’s great portrayal, the Laser Screwdriver, (which is awesome), you have a golden 3-parter here.
It’s okay to have a slightly anti-climatic ending, and the CGI doesn’t need to be ‘out of this world’ (Pun unintended)
With the plot holes in this, at least you have to pay more attention to notice them.
It’s not like with ‘Planet of the Dead’ where all the plot holes stand out.
This 3-parter is a masterpiece!
(Sorry, couldn’t resist, also Pun absolutely intended)
And by the way, Planet of the Dead is underrated too.
If this is a hated finale, I can't wait until we get to the actually bad finales (cough cough wedding of River song cough cough)
That was horrendous my god, I mean series 6 as a whole was good but the finale oh man, same for Series 7
I love this episode; such a great finale to Series 3, and demonstrates how dangerous the Master can be by showing what happens when he wins.
I've never thought the CGI goblin Doctor has looked that bad personally. The visuals work for me.
I Wana stick goblin doctor in my butt 😂
About the reversal of time part, I really don't mind the explanation of Martha, the Doctor, Captain Jack and others remembering 'the Year that never was' despite everyone else on earth forgetting as being caught in the eye of the storm, it really is quite reasonable. But the whole time reversal is definitely like a get out jail free card as the premise RTD wrote was kinda impossible to resolve in just half a part of an episode