How One Of Classic WoW's LAST Balanced Servers Fell
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2022
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Another once balanced server falls in the pursuit of faction balance in Classic WoW. Is what we are seeing now just the inevitability of 2 factions and no cross server tech? Or is there an answer looming that's just not feasible in Classic WoW or Classic WotLK?
Let's go over the story of how Firemaw - Europe's largest server - went from balanced, to single faction.
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shut up
how much of actual population do you think does a server need for it to be comfortable as a player when searching for a raid. do you think 2000 people is too little for there to be enough people raiding at any given day on primetime?
warmane, biggest private server
has near 50/50 balance on every realm they have, something that blizzard will never be able to achieve :)
think only one real way do this truely make handful sever maybe 5 severs pve realm maybe rp realm and then there is 1 mega pvp sever just combine all pvp sever together only real way i think pvp sever would work have some form both facton one mega pvp only sever for entire game
RIP Firemaw 😭😭😭
I don’t think the server consolidation is a drastic move really. The ones they are consolidating are *literally* dead. I logged into my old vanilla toon on Rattlegore to see what the status was before taking the free transfer, and I was (not joking) the ONLY horde player online. It will have little to no impact on the player base, it’s more just consolidating wasted server resources.
Agreed, if you move all of the characters to a different server (so friends can still play together), does it really matter that you select "Azshara" instead of "Whisperwind" when you login?
I thought Blizzard was doing it already.
Daddlegore!
RIP Daddlegore.. Oh well, Moar Dots went Grobb, hit us up if you miss your old Rattlegore peeps lol
EU (the biggest region) doesn't have a single balanced PvP English server right now. PvP is practically dead on most servers (World PvP and BGs)
@@Dualities most players don't want pvp servers.
You forgot to mention that Firemaw Horde abused a loophole where you didn't incur a transfer cooldown when using a free character transfer, so they hopped over to Razorgore, and then again to Gehennas, all for free.
and? server transfer should be free in the first place and balanced servers that are alive would make more money for blizzard int he long run
Pretty important addition!
And the fact you can not transfer to Firemaw at all. But you can still stransfer to Gehennas.
The whole information about the situation is incomplete: One of the big reason of transfer is also RMT and bots which ruined the economy. No more bots could be created to farm and the prices skyrocketted to impossible highs. Then the free transfer error to razorgore then Gehennas made people realize the grass was greener elsewhere with this loophole.
@@Kyrrua_ The AH was not effected very much, prices went up like 10% maybe and thats not "skyrocket"
Just by looking at the thumbnail, I already do not agree. I’ve been on Grobbulus, the only true 50-50, since day 1 and I PREFER AND LOVE it like this.
Me too! GROB MOB! Its such a nice balanced community oriented server. Good world PvP too
Will-E ignores that Grobbulus exists because he plays EU.
World pvp is toxic af. Isle on Grobb is a shit show. Gank squads sitting in choke points of players trying to do dailies almost requires a raid group just to clear the toxic players out. World pvp is almost never a fair fight, it’s either your outnumbered or they gank you when your already engaged with a mob,
That's some serious copium you're huffing on.
Surely Grobbulus will stay balanced forever and won't go the way of Firemaw eventually Clueless
It’s honestly kind of mind blowing the Grob Gang has maintained 50/50 despite every other server being completely dominated by one faction.
I feel the same. Made the move there from Benediction a while ago, have always worried it would become imbalanced, but so far...so good. Amazing, really.
@@maegreth3729 I considered moving both horde and alliance there but i’m worried that since it’s west coast the time difference will prevent me from doing a lot. I’m EST and do NOT stay up late lol
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
He is lying, please don't come here. Worst server.
Grobb is sanctuary
There should be separate "forced balance" servers, where balance would be maintained through longer queues for major faction
Or outright lockouts. Once one faction gets 55% (or even 52%) of the active players on a server no additional player can log in as that faction, only the opposite faction. That's pretty much the only way to preserve balance.
I wish Grobbulus would be locked. We have so many toxic people flooding in and it killed the RP scene... I want it to come back, but that's not going to happen if the server stays open to transfers and character creation
Honestly dude, I came back to find earthfury 100% dead. They had free transfers available but it was between 2 oceanic servers, a horde dominated est server, and grobbulus. I wasn't given any option at all and I can't be the only one. Dunno how it feels as someone who's been on Grob for a while but the people definitely seem fkn toxic as shit
Sorry to hear that, I re rolled alliance from Horde Whitemane as a human Paladin have have Met tons of great people and barely been ganked, started last month and currently lvl 66. I feel like Grobb is an awesome server !
@@JonPicoCokeJones Grobb is awesome. All realms are loaded with toxic players. If you get ganked, just tell yourself "I signed up for this shit." I do my part by trying to be a nice player. I dont touch lowbies and if a player wields honor and i feel like pvping, ill gank them once and move on. I dislike camping. There's also RPers, you just have to look for them and hang out with them. obv not everyone will be an RPer. Theres a lil bit of everyting on Grobb imo. Just my opinion tho.
@@JonPicoCokeJones i feel like in general there's a big influx of toxic ppl in LFG chat on my server as well, maybe retail ppl jumping on the wotlk bandwagon
Is it not locked? It’s marked as “full” yet there are no queues so I just assumed it’s locked to anyone without a free character transfer from the servers about to be closed.
We holding it out on Grobbulus!
It will be the last one
Create official "Balanced Faction" servers and you must agree to the terms that Blizzard has control to lock and reopen character creations and transfers at will to keep it balanced. Folks that want a balanced server to play on should have no qualms with agreeing to that if it keeps their server factions within 5% of each other.
Its such a simple fucking solution...
Blizzard workers PVE only so why would they care LOL
"Balanced Faction" servers would have 10 people playing on them. It's a good idea but people love being sheep and will just overpopulated a one sided server for no reason.
@@PatrickButlerP Right. Grobbulus has nobody playing on it.
@@PatrickButlerP - You think you do, but you don't, right?
I wonder if this "faction minority exodus" will happen to Grobbulus? It's a PvP RP realm US West with 51.5% horde, best balanced I've seen. I feel lucky to play there
Grob is holding on strong. It's the literal last PvP server in NA with a close faction balance. I keep waiting for it to attract the masses searching for "authentic world pvp" that everyone claims to want, but few seem to actually enjoy.
Grobb will stand
RP servers hit different, always have - would be sad to see it go one way
@@WillEmmo I play on Bloodsail Buccaneer (RP) & the Alliance dominate the server. There are like 150 - 250 Horde players on at prime times. Alliance has thousands
Grob is BiS 💪
Videos like this just make me realize how much of a miracle that Grobbulus is. I think it should have deserved a mention at least
Grob mob
RP-PVP is the GOAT. Hopefully it remains good despite a lot of toxic transfers.
Give it too much attention and it’ll sink like the rest. Grob lives in its own bubble and it prospers for that
Hell yeah Grobb
We don't fit the narrative
One of the big things that also killed big open world pvp was that once you got 2 raids against each, the lag just became unbearable where you would have 2-3+ seconds of delay and just couldn't play properly whatsoever. I _believe_ they still have this same problem on retail as well. On private servers you could have hundreds of players in an area fighting, aoeing, etc and there was no noticeable lag, but the official Blizzard large company servers lag out to all hell with just a fraction of that.
Honestly it was impressive playing on those european hosted private servers in US and not having any bad lag.
u forgot to mention that it was a mistake/loophole made by blizzard that allowed players to transfer from firemaw to razorgore to gehennas for free.. People really went out of their way to join the horde mega server
they dont really have a choise. they know the pvp is dead but it is easer to vl up and find groups. balanced server should be priority for blizzard
Yeah I didn't find this out till comments on the video appeared, im suprised I didn't catch it when making the video - thats my bad.
Just goes to show how fast and coordinated people were even more so though!
You missed an important point about the Horde migration from Firemaw to Gehennas.
There was no direct free migration to Gehennas from Firemaw, but there was a loophole that some found out.
You could migrate all you characters for free to Razogore and from then you could again migrate all you characters for free to Gehennas.
The loophole was the thing that made most of horde go from Firemaw to Gehennas. The fact that is was free but only open until blizz found out made EVERYEONE wanted to use it before it was too late. And that was the reason most of the horde migrated in only 24 hours.
EU only balanced server is locked. EU (the biggest region) doesn't have a single balanced PvP English server right now. PvP is practically dead on most servers (World PvP and BGs)
He never, ever, knows anything in depth about the subject matter of his videos. Just your standard RUclips grift.
@@DoMw4r the youtube game. but hey many rising small content creators too
Seen a few comments saying the same now! My bad on missing that, its a pretty important bit of info - goes to show how fast + coordinated people were during that period
@@WillEmmo I meant no disrespect, just a heads up.
But yeah, that really shows that guilds today talk with each other and how fast information spreads among them. My guild masters were saying they were talking with other horde guilds and they were migrating for free, and in an hour they had decided that we as a guild would be doing the same.
The Firemaw Exodus was a real wake-up call concerning the player community. So many people just blindly following the GDKP Mafia Guilds and Botters, destroying the last balanced server and moving to a mono-faction realm. Shows that the vast majority of „pvp players“ don’t really care about the game itself (or the fun in it for that matter). They have optimized the game and care more about being able to join a gdkp run at 10am for any raid rather than having a good community or immersive world. Very sad testament... pathetic sheep ofc, but still sad
No one wants competition from the opposite faction either lol its all objective based now unlike back then when it was more exploring.
whats GDKP?
@@NicolasCaja "Gold Dragon Kill Points" or "Guild Dragon Kill Points"
Yeah them GDKP Mafia Guilds are half the reason I left WoW. The other half being extreme bias toward the Horde that the game became World of Hordecraft.
They always should've had a maximum ratio difference of 45:55 with new servers, each account representing one individual in the population regardless of how many toons on the server (all have to be same faction). This ratio can be extended to at most 40:60 but your account needs an invite from a player on the server. Each player gets one account invite, but will not work past 60%.
Nice. Here’s option B. Stop playing a game run by people who don’t respect you, your time, your life, your money, or your friends.
blizzard doesnt give a singel damn about vanilla / TBC, neither will they about woltk or cata. But hey, GDKP , bots, and 0 GMS is the way to play this game XD
How about you stop being a pussy and leaving whenever the other faction gets bigger? Oh who an i kidding, you play alliance.
@@-Believeinyourself- Great idea! Whilst you're at it you might as well also stop buying fuel for your car because the fuel company's have no respect for you, your time, your money or your life.
something like this i suggested with a buddy of mine the other day, all they had to do was lock servers for faction after x point and then give incentive to play the other faction and it balances out to some degree. its not a perfect solution but man its better than what we have
One thing that would help a little bit is to connect all the 3 AH (Horde, Alliance and goblin), at least if you are on the smaller faction you can still gets the mats you need.
smaller faction mean no groups for dungeon and dead pvp. balanced server is a priority or free transfers
In DF the auction house is going region wide for profession material consumables to a degree. But people keep going ott thinking irs everything ...
I hope grobbulus stays as it is It feels like the last balanced server left
Grobb Mobb day 1
It doesn’t only feel like it... it IS the last balanced server
@@joeshmo1 im just a biggles refugee whos been on grob 6ish months now, but its been a blast couldnt of picked a better server to transfer too imo.
The faction balance problem is actually pretty easy to fix, and I'm surprised Blizzard has never thought of it. Perhaps they have and can't code it. The solution? Dynamic matching.
1. Make all servers single faction. This happens over time dynamically by player migration but just make it official. Name severs by faction, ex. Thrall would be horde only.
2. Each week match the alliance and horde servers by size. Biggest alliance and biggest horde server are linked, next biggest together, etc. The next week this is updated if populations vary changing a servers rank.
3. Do the same for layers. If people of one faction flee a layer to avoid the other faction the layer will dynamically re associate it such that faction representation in a given layer is as balanced as possible. There should be a delay but not too long on layers being reassociated.
The one problem this can't fix is if people flee a faction completely. Horde is already 60% of the PVP population and as retail showed, people don't want balanced PVP and over time I could see alliance PVP completely dying.
alliance pvp won't die if Wrath comes out unchanged, but actually the easiest solution to balance servers is to lock population. Some private servers did it. Not a hard lock, but a roughly 40-60 lock.
@@ceciliam1313 The problem though is that the servers are already 80-90/10-20 and you cant simply force a transfer on random people :p
In fact if more people like me considering trying out Wrath pvp again, servers like Firemaw might swell with alliance pvp players soon. I am more on the side of not wanting to play this time tho, despite wrath being my favorite version of wow by a long shot.
@@MrDavekek yeah obviously, they should have asked private server runners *before* this whole business. Now if you return to Wrath, pick a megaserver of your faction, and that's it. World pvp is way overrated in my opinion anyway.
one problem, in theory it is simple in practice you would basically have to rewrite the whole game from the scratch ...
and you arent taking into account anything other than player numbers - economy, number of PvP active players, strength of the guilds on servers ...
its not THAT simple
Interesting stuff. Thanks for the vids!
Love the new cooking skills in your general chat! Congrats.
Keep up the good work. I keep watching even though I quit in TBC :D
I recently transferred to grobbulous, it’s 50 50 and I love it, I haven’t had this much fun since classic release
Welcome, classic has been good on grobb
well on EU we don't have single balanced PvP English server
I'm convinced that the issue is that people are intrigued by the idea of world PvP, but they don't actually want to engage with the content.
Servers are just way to big now for it to work. I played alliance in classic on faerlina and it was amazing up u til around aq the. It got toxic and all the alliance players left. You literally couldn’t even be in your own city with out being camped. I played alliance because I knew all the neckbeards would be playing horde chomping at the chance to gang bang. I thought more people would realize what happened in retail and go alliance to keep it fun. In tbc my buddy I play with was so tired of 15 death runs that we restarted the guild in tbc as horde on a pretty balanced server in rattle gore. It was smaller and eventually just died. Pvp servers can work if they are forced to be balanced and not massive in size. I think the size of the servers was the problem.
Not unless they have overwhelming odds in their favor
@@vladchenkov9215 People will flock toward large servers because of their inherent benefits such as easier groups, more stable market and so on. So I don't think it'd work to limit server size.
As for balanced factions, that'd likely lead to one side creating dummy characters to artificially boost their own faction. They already did that due to the old honor system after all.
@@FrogWalrus In which case it's just griefing, not actual PvP.
@@CottidaeSEA maybe a karma system if some sort I dunno. But up until aq … there was def more horde and they were camping flight paths and mc ubrs etc…. Sometimes it was out of hand it would be an hour to get to a raid but that was really towards the end when alliance all left because the faction imbalance e was already bad and just got worse. I still enjoyed nearly every minute of it to be honest. Sure I got camped alot, but damn when I got a 1v1 or 1v2 it was amazing fun.
The solution was so easy, so self-evident, laying before their eyes for years all along. People were calling for this in/after the disastrous start of classic p2. After the server locks when there were hour-long qeues already. After the balance started to tip over. After the AQ War Effort was over. After removing layers, which, while problematic on their own, at least provided members of the weaker faction a chance to escape their gankers. After server communities (which did exist, on some servers more, on some less) started to disperse:
Locking servers for ONE faction. And preferably before queues kicked in.
An easy, absolutely no-brainer solution. All their "issues" they've raised before (keeping your name, technology, server identity, etc. etc.) would've been cowered by this.
Instead, in their sheer hubris, allowed for the loophole which sealed the fate of Firemaw. How the hell could they allow free transfer to a dead server for free - from which you could transfer to ANY server for free.
But if you thought that's all - well, it's happening AGAIN. Couple that with player behaviour - and at this point, unless you play on classic era or one of the private servers, faction balance is dead for good.
To thinks private Vanilla server populations lasted longer.
Private servers did this and it worked. However looking at general wow forums, players are frothing from their mouth the moment you mention a faction queue or locking factions. Modern WoW community sucks and like WillE said people WANT to play on a monofaction server where they get to dominate the other side with zero effort.
@@Iwmar yep, the most toxic community in gaming history I believe.
There's a critical piece of information you missed. On July 10th players of Firemaw discovered a glitch. They managed to transfer their characters to Razorgore, and then receive an additional free transfer to Gehennas. Horde players took the opportunity. Within one week they sent the 63-37% balance server to 93-7%. Rougly 8k horde players dropped within 2 days, as seen on ironforge pro. All thanks to an exploit, and a major f.up on Blizzard's end.
What is the lesson you learned from this? Serious question
@@-Believeinyourself- If I played horde I would have done the same. Blizz have and will f.up in the future, you have to act quick.
@@Borsshun the lesson should be to walk away from a company that doesn’t respect you, your time, or your money.
You sort of need to salute Grobbulus players for maintaining the almost only real PvP server in Classic WoW, certainly the most balanced one.
Grobbulus ftw !!! have so much fun there
Grobb is fun man
Is grobb classic era or TBC?
@@rockyjetproject1345 TBC
I was on bigglesworth as it slowly died. Most of us were going to transfer to whitemane, but then free transfers opened, and one option was grobbulus. Honestly we never would have considered it but a bunch of horde and alliance guild leaders from grob were working together and reaching out to get people not just to xfer to grob, but to keep the server balanced. I dont know how all of this was organized but i bet it would make for a great video. “How grob stays balanced”. Im proud to be a part of this server. Maybe one day i’ll even see barnybee on his bug mount somewhere 😂
I've been Grob Mob since day 1. all I can say is I'm so glad you're enjoying our server, and if you do invite people make sure you invite an equal number of Alliance and Horde players. been balanced since launch we'd like to keep it that way
On Whitemane NA, we were balanced for a long time, but then eventually went 99% horde. The dormant alliance population is maybe coming back now, for the wotlk balance that favors humans. Since the bonus XP started, there's a noticeable amount of alliance. Especially geared 60s leveling 60-70.
KEEP GROBBULUS EVEN!
Preach
What i just thought of:
Sharding, crossrealm activities and signup systems proved to work very well in the past. What if we combine this? Give players the option to join ‘the pvp realm’, which is a crossrealm layer instance of the outside world, accessible by players on any server.
This will finally achieve the BALANCED open world pvp that players desire.
Now ‘the pvp’ layer doesn’t have that ring to it, so we’ll call it ‘The Brave World’ for now.
All players of all realms can join The Brave World (pvp layer) by turning their ‘brave adventurer’ option on. The brave world is a pvp crossrealm layer that you can only access by zoning in to it, like a battleground. Though it will feel more like joining ‘the pvp layer’ because you keep your current spot and it will feel like transitioning into another layer on the same realm, which we already experienced before.
Just like a battleground fills its ‘instances’ evenly, this brave world (pvp layer) will be filled by an evenly distribution of horde and alliance players by a sign-up system. Think about alliance from firemaw and horde from gehennas, and many players from all realms signing up for this. With too much of your faction on it compared to the other one, you would be placed in a queue. For example it could be a margin of 50-100 player difference by faction. This pvp realm would still be able to fill up to thousands (say 5k) of players on each side, as long as the two factions equally fill it up. If one pvp layer really becomes overpopulated, then we make 2 pvp layers.
‘Why join a crossrealm pvp layer instead of safely exploring the world on the layers of my alliance- or horde only realm?’ You might ask. Well, why did we create characters on pvp realms in the first place? You were willing to face some foes while you were walking outside.
How will this pvp layer be playable and not filled up with ganking rogues only? How will i still be able to quest on it? Will this bring big open world pvp fights back?
- Players could be given a buff as a small incentive to join the brave world. It rewards their bravery and motivates them to treat it both as a real leveling and exploration world but also an opportunity to form big faction fights. An example of this buff would be ‘Brave adventurer: + 20% reputation and xp gained and +20% honor gained while in a raid group’.
(The auctionhouse and mailbox would still be linked towards your own realm. You will not be able to trade items with players from other realms And you would zone out of this crossrealm layer and into a layer of your own realm if you toggle of ‘brave adventurer’.)
Myself, my husband, his sister, plus my brother and sister were all playing together on a pve server. We however decided to move to a new server due to balance concerns it was about 40% horde and 60% alliance. The first day the server was available we switched over, fingers crossed after joining the discord for the server, we thought that it would at least be balanced but that it looked like it would be a horde dominant server. The first few days the server grew with horde players and some alliance, but slowly it began to scew to alliance again.
After about 3 weeks it was predominantly alliance and even worse than before, the server never grew beyond maybe 2 or 3k and it was at least 80% alliance. We went from bad to worse and we couldnt move our toons back. We would have had to reroll at hte time.
They ended up all quitting and never came back. I myself rerolled and played a bit alone but ended up quitting too (during classic vanilla)
Leaving a server that’s 40/60 is hilarious, can’t really get much better. Lmao.
@@makishae9811 it's actually fun being in the lower faction. more comrade in open word pvp
Yeah I imagine a lot of people (myself included on Kromcrush) experienced a large minority on their server, far worse than 40/60. Probably healthy for you and your peeps to leave the game anyways though haha.
@@itano07 dont think many would agree there. 60/40 doesnt sound like alot but the dominant faction always hits critical mass numbers at hub points or choke points and it makes the open world feel far more skewed to the dominant side. 40/60 in reality probably feels like 1/3 ratio..
@@itano07 By definition it's actually the opposite, it's the biggest faction that has more player my man
I joined Gehennas-EU Alliance side when I got back in WoW and couldn't find a balanced server, and tbh, I like the vibe of the community. Sure it could be less dead, but we get to know the people who hang around, especially with a nice guild.
This is the first RUclips video that I've ever seen where the sponsor's message got interrupted by a RUclips commercial. "We interrupt this commercial with another commercial."
I always thought it would be worth trying Alliance-only and Horde-only servers, with Blizzard pairing them up on their end. Basically, the highest pop horde server would be paired/merged with the highest pop alliance server, second highest with second highest, etc. This way, they could reevaluate every month or couple of weeks and if there are massive population changes, just rearrange and re-pair servers. This way they could move large populations around without having to do server transfers and keep individual servers basically intact.
@@laranjo5999 can't kill rivalry in wPvP when there isn't any...
@@laranjo5999 please give me an example of guild wpvp rivalry's? Those all ended the day TBC came out.
I’m pretty sure they ended with P2 in classic rofl this is such a bad faith argument.
I mean the problem with that is putting 50 000 active players on one server
EU (the biggest region) doesn't have a single balanced PvP English server right now. PvP is practically dead on most servers (World PvP and BGs)
I'm really glad I played on Zandalar Tribe. Even though it died in TBC, in Classic it often felt like the only balanced EU pvp server, and while everyone was complaning in phase two, we were having ton of fun fighting over who gets to control which zone.
We are all on earthshaker now! Zandalar trive had the best people, we all have stories of payuut and moradin Haha
Don't forget "The Great Peacebloom War" during the AQ war effort period where the alliance also had to complete the horde side of the effort as well since horde refused to do it, with the horde fighting to delay the opening to get their Scarab Lords done by sniping mats we sent over the neutral AH and posting videos online of simply deleting stacks and stacks of Peacebloom and other mats.
Ended up with alliance having to repeatedly kill all but one neutral AH auctioneer across Azeroth and post guards there using characters from both factions to prevent them from sniping the mats so we could finish the war effort and finally start raiding AQ.
Good times. RIP ZT :( Since we are almost all on Earthshaker now, at least we still have much of the same community and see a lot of the same people daily which is great :)
@@Quintillious good to know
@@Quintillious god... payuut gives me nightmares. Any idea if he is still on earthshaker? Personally I quit during classic wow, and then I felt like I was too behind to come back to TBC. Came back like a week or so ago, only to find out ZT died, and then I transferred to earthshaker (just before ZT was permanently deleted as a realm). Even though there is no horde on that server, my lvl 60 mage still got ganked by some asshole druid when I was trying to level, so for now I have decided to abandon my former main and am leveling a new toon on Pyrewood Village. While I do miss my old guild, and of course my character, I don't want to play on failed PVP servers, when there are perfectly healthy PVE servers available, unfortunately the free transfer did not allow me to transfer from ZT to a pve server... (and i refuse to pay blizzard for a server transfer)
Options:
1. offer people 2 months game time for switching to lesser populated faction
2. offer one way faction swaps
3. offer a free pet or a free title, unique only to switchers
4. offer some sort of cool cosmetic for switchers
5. lock new characters getting made past a 60/40 split on any server
theres loads of things they could do if they had any will at all.
Awesome video. Great Wall content. The history is really interesting
Honestly a handful of massive servers would probably be the best solution. Things that might "help" is faction specific queues on servers. This kinda worked in private servers, but only kinda.
merging servers would be a sollutiion. and give every1 mybe 1 free transfer or something if they wanna play with friends idk
Grobb mob checking in
Simple solution: Faction pairing. Take a faction minority and crossrealm it with a server where that faction is the majority. Example: Atiesh alliance (81.9%) gets pooled with Golemagg alliance (8%). The Atiesh peeps get Horde to contend with, and the Golemagg peeps aren't so lonely anymore. No need for transfers, no need for radical fire-in-all-directions crossrealming.
this sounds the easiest way yea. EU (the biggest region) doesn't have a single balanced PvP English server right now. PvP is practically dead on most servers (World PvP and BGs)
thats a pretty good idea
What I appreciate the most is that you used actual footage of Firemaw Orgrimar as I recognized some of the players there. Actually bis wow classic content creator
This whole classic WoW thing has been very sad. I was so ready for a nostalgic experience, but instead, we saw both Blizzard, and ourselves as mass groups of people, botch one thing after another. The snowballing of small advantages for one faction on almost every server was so sad to see, and I'm just glad I stopped playing it before it got too insane.
No transfers would have prevent this mess. Yes people are like children and they just want their faction to win, so they transfer when it's starting to be difficult. With no transfers, you would keep a good amount of people to fight in each factions ... We can accuse the players, but hey, those transfers are here for a reason, and we all know it.
You can thank no changes.
The problem is giving people access to transfers at all, as soon as they feel their side is lacking just a little bit they take the easy way out and make the problem even worse. Just get rid of transfers and the 40/60 ratio will be preserved, the lacking side wont quit so easily when all their character progress is on the line.
OTOH if you remove all transfers then people will just quit the game when their faction drops below ~40% and the game becomes unplayable for them.
@@Dendarang if a faction goes beyond 60% they shoud take away all their racials until it gets lower than 60% that woud do it
I was a horde at firemaw, just started up two weeks ago. Didn't know that horde had left the server. Got chased out by continuously getting ganked, so now I am at Gehennas where I belong apperntly.
I played on Whitemane since the beginning of classic where it had always maintained comfortable faction balance. Perhaps 5 points advantage horde 10 at worst. This changed with TBC, however. When all the smaller servers began to be abandoned, all the horde players chose Whitemane as their destination. That 50/50 balance quickly became 60/40 and then 70/30 and by the time our guild decided to bail to Benediction, it was 80/20. Getting into SSC was a nightmare and would take most classes 3-4 death runs. We knew Caverns of Times would be a nightmare and Sunwell even worse.
Whitemane is worse nowadays. The main Alliance guild gatekeeps low level alliance from progression now that you can make horde and alliance toons. They'll invite you in then check your location to farm you at low levels keeping you from getting to play. I called the guild out on it and got booted. I've never swapped servers so quickly, its pure cancer. I do not recommend Whitemane even if your horde just because of that toxic crap.
EU (the biggest region) doesn't have a single balanced PvP English server right now. PvP is practically dead on most servers (World PvP and BGs)
Grobb has nearly 20k players and it's almost exactly 50/50 Horde Ally ratio. Blizz doesn't have to do anything. If you want world pvp on a large realm, play on Grobb, if you dont, play on Benny or Faerlina. There's something for both types of players. It's not an issue. I'm on Grobb and it's amazing. The world is so alive and most zones, both Outlands and Azeroth alike, are a warzone. If I didnt care about that, I'd be on Benny or Faerlina.
a fellow grobb !! cheers brother !!
Grobb is the new emerald Dream
Cries in EU
That’s only for US... so the larger part of the playerbase is stuck on EU realms with monofaction gdkp sheep guilds
there were many other servers just as amazing not long ago.
They all gone now.
enjoy it while you can.
honestly i wish blizz would just lock character creation on servers when needed more often
I've seen a huge increase in new players on Gehennas, even after Firemaw transfered here. It's really not needed and I'm, unfortunately, expecting queues on wotlk launch day. It's just so stupid. I don't want to go the route of "blizzard is milking transfer payments", but it really feels like it now.
I know nothing of the logistics behind implementing this idea here, but what about creating connections between 3 servers? With the example of War Mode, the idea is that you have a non-PVP server dominated by each faction and a PVP server that tries to self-balance players coming from and going to those servers.
Video idea: What daily quests should I focus to unlock for best raw gold + mats that drops on the way.
2. daily quest route for all 25quest that are worth to do
only daily quest worth doing: Log on and gank everyone opposite faction.
dont stop until someone gets on an alt and curses at you.
Please just don’t ruin Grobb man. Idk why so many players don’t care about faction balance but leave that ideology on other servers
Cross faction is the best thing they've implemented in a long time, preventing gameplay improvements to protect lore elements that not even the writers of the story care to protect is just silly, if there was any form of consistency in the history of wow that justified maintaining this class-faction lock I would understand, but so far alliance and horde have teamed up more times than they have fought, the next step is to simply have a quest chain that allows one to fully change factions and enable faction choice for any race upon character creation.
I agree that retail is long past the point where it matters what faction or server one plays with their solo oriented aproach, however with classic servers that are more grounded it matters more. It is definitively worth looking into as doing nothing is obviously bad too.
Faction population caps per server are the only solution.
I was on fireman playing between that period of mass exodus, it went from a flying chat with mostly boosts but some stuff going on, to completely dead within a couple weeks, I had to eventually move and so I did, but they had already locked gehennas by the time I did. I originally moved to firemaw during tbc specifically for the faction balance, I dont understand why players want a completely one faction dominated server but oh well
There a way to make single faction servers. then do like seasons (2-3 months or something) where your faction server is paired with a similar sized server group from the other faction. set it up so it attempts to keep server groups paired until the discrepancy becomes to large.
No speak of Grobb Mobb ? come on now , RPPVP is still a pvp server.
I'm rolling on grobbulus today witha friend. my current maim server is bloodsail buccaneers, rp servers are the best
@@mortalhordewarrior9285 I rolled alliance on grobb one month ago, no regrets it’s an awesome server
@@JonPicoCokeJones good alliance was starting to dip a little. Thank you
As someone who has spend my entire wow classic career on windseeker, I am happy to see it with a good balance and a small but healthy population :)
Is windseeker classic era or TBC?
@@rockyjetproject1345 TBC
There's an issue in the video, transfers to Firemaw have still not been opened. Only character creation has been enabled.
We have no one to blame but ourselves for the downfall of warcraft
As always the answer is that it's the fault of the developers. They could have done many things to combat this faction balance nonsense but instead they either do nothing (bad) or they do something that makes no sense (worse).
Loads of people told them to not allow transfers, did blizzard listen? No, no surprise there
The more important question: Does faction balance actually matter?
It seems to most players, the answer is no.
The bigger server problem is the mass migration away from small servers onto mega servers leaving people forced to transfer or take MM out of there ORPG.
Talking from experience. I'm in grobbu and it's the best being able to world pvp for towers and halaa. Usually starts 2 v 2 then ppl farming stop in. Turn out to be a 40 vs 40 by the end of it.
My favorite RUclipsr !
I know many people have pointed out that the free transfer exploit via Razorgore was a huge reason why the mass exodus was able to happen, however I've not seen anyone mention another key part of the exodus - Real Money Trading.
Although there is the obvious "we don't want to be a minority faction" drive to the exodus, the actual trigger is a slight bit more complicated. After Blizzard had stopped character creation and server transfers to Firemaw, queues that up to that point had been 13k+ at peak disappeared VERY quickly, but ironforge pro was reporting the same number of players. What ironforge does not report is bots, and Firemaw was absolutely filled with them. With the closing of the server, banned accounts could no longer create new account to make more bots and more importantly they couldn't take advantage of the free transfer from dead servers where they would farm materials unchallenged and then move them to Firemaw. This is why Firemaw saw huge inflation with Haste Potions go from 7g a pop to a whopping 25g at it's height.
This combined with the announcement of wrath and summer dried up big GDKP spenders, there are a huge amount of guilds and organisations that ran GDKPs on Firemaw and suddenly saw a drought of income as well as a huge inflation. This was by no means a horde only problem, but when these GDKP communities decided to root up and all move to Gehennas a domino effect occurred where no one wanted to be left as a minority faction.
So in the end, all though Blizzard's "decision" did cause the issue, their reluctance to fight RMT also had an important role to play in the events that occurred.
Grob rise up
Grobb Mob
some random ideas...1) release the actual server population/faction % numbers. then let the players decide themselves where to roll on. 2) also maybe allow an FREE to anywhere/faction transfer 1 time per toon. or 3) make everyone factionless by default, then you can choose which faction to join. can reset every X months.
4) Just make a single faction already.
Yo lets go Grobb! I was in Bigglesworth during p1&p2 and took a break, but then joined Grobb a couple weeks before Sunwell and I'd say it's the best PvP server out there. Amazing Faction Balance, spicy memes and fun times all around. I can't wait to see how the server evolves with prepatch, as even with the 50% xp boost, lower level content has been advertised in chats.
I guess they could do a check on the player base on server if the balance if off by X% then auto block the higher faction to create new account there. Im not sure but if i remember right they did something like this in ArcheAge back then to prevent having servers where 1 faction dominate and 0 other faction exist. But ye in that game u had 3 faction instead of 2, where the 3rd faction was the pirate faction (mixed faction and usually hardcore PVP players went to pirates) also pirate side was the smallest compare to the other 2, where they come from.
Gotta admit, I'm laughing my ass off at all the arrogant douchebag wanting to be on PvP servers, and then watch them flee with their tails behind the hindlegs to PvE/Horde dominated servers.
Petty
@@revenancesmith3819 can’t blame him, they talked shit about pvp servers being the “true wow experience” and then avoided pvp to the extreme
I’m laughing my ass off at the losers that are still playing world of credit card.
Come to grobbulus pvp is an integral part of leveling
i feel like the people that want a balanced server is a loud minority and/or sweaty rogues. World pvp sucks and always has sucked. Getting ganked while questing is nothing but an annoyance. It's for people that can't arena and want to feel good at the game by either ganking lowbies or only picking fights if they have an extreme advantage. If balanced servers were as popular as some people think then there would be more. But the majority has shown that they dont want balanced servers by choosing to swap to a favorable server for their faction.
you're not wrong, but I still like playing on Grob. it's nice that there is at least one option for people who do find world PvP to be enjoyable, and I think blizzard should protect it from going the way of Firemaw, Bene, and Faerlina at all costs
Yes but why are the biggest servers pvp servers when the pvp server enjoyers are a loud minority?
Convince the pve players to gtfo of the pvp servers and i wouldnt have to compain. the game is being ruined for me despite playing on the type of server that was made for people like me.
My idea would be for Blizzard to drop server caps for how many people can be online on a server at any given time before server queues appear, and then split that number evenly across horde and alliance. Purely an example (don’t take the numbers too seriously), say you made it 2k horde and 2k alliance can be online at once then you’d see huge queues for some servers and for some factions within different servers, making that server unplayable.
Then you also open all servers up to free transfers and give the population roughly 1-2 months deadline until the server caps are reduced so they can sort themselves out and find new homes. A lot would find new homes in that 1-2 month period and then you’d get people who hang around to see what happens. If they don’t move by the time the caps are reduced then they will have queues and I bet you’d see the population spread itself out pretty quickly because they have no choice. If players are capable of creating 99:1 servers then they are certainly capable of creating 50:50 servers. It really just comes down to whether players want the experience of having people to group up with easily on their faction or do they want an opposite faction to war with.
The obvious downside to this is that it will kill server identity and force friends to potentially part. But we’ve already seen that when it comes down to it those things don’t really matter that much to the player base or they wouldn’t be so willing to jump ship like they have for classic’s entire history.
Faction-based login queue.
Only characters/accounts are able to log in fro mthe character selection screen, when the balance etween factions is within the 10% (45 : 55) difference. And when 1 faction gets overpop, a queue pops up untill some people fro mthe other faction logs in. This will ensure people will want to find a balanced realm or they cannot play.
Also, merging multiple servers together, in order to get a faction balance going again, to initiate things on realms that are not balanced as of yet.
Having a handful of megaservers available with an optional cross-server war mode is the end game.
idk anything cross server kinda kills the server unity vibe for me, even if its not possible to not have balanced servers. I just wanna see people from my server around me, if not they become soulless npcs running around like in retail.
"Players seem to just want big servers with one faction"
This is wrong and Firemaw has proven it. The server stood balanced and growing until the lock. The only reason it died is because bots could no longer supply mat demand because they couldn't create new characters. Players don't want one faction, they want cheap prices on items, which blizzard is not able to supply because they limit the amount of players till the lower populated faction leaves.
The server stood balanced until Blizzard fucked it up with free transfer trick to Gehennas
people (Willie included) seems to forgot blizz literally let players to transfer to gehenass for free
No, the casuals want a carry. No challenge, thus the game is made challengeless in regular gsmrplay and the game is dying. Gamers are being displaced by casuals even tho the number keep dropping because no matter how low the playerbase dips blizzard thinks its because they weretn pro casual enough, not anti casual.
@@86Corvus while I agree with what you said, I don't think this was the reason here.
There is a comment, that stated that the dude and his friends transfered from server that was 40/60%, becouse they thought it will go full one side soon.
This is exacly reason servers go one side. Players are not even aware of the population status and they already try to _save_ themselfs. Just yesterday I was lvling in redridge on firemaw, and some guy in pt told us that Firemaw is really the last balanced server and this is the reason he is playing here. After I told him firemaw already is like 95%-5% or so, he just typed ,,sad"
People will see 50%-50% and just go to the server. They don't look for playerbase or other equally important informations IMO.
Hi Will!
I have no idea what several to play on, im new to wow do I need to play on a server that have more population fir the faction I wanna be apart of?
Grobbulus is a 50/50 pvp server bro... It's maintained it since classic's launch. RPPVP is the trick. All these RUclipsrs discount data staring them in the face. Emerald Dream on retail is the same way. It doesn't fit their narrative so it gets ignored.
Not really always balanced. I xfered over to grobb back in February and it was 30/70 alliance favored.
That is why I used my free transfer to that realm.
It’s so frustrating. It’s like he only makes his videos for the EU audience.
@@joedarling5175 it swings sometimes I guess, but never gets too crazy. I play horde so I guess it's harder to tell. Your own factions population always seems inflated. Halaa battles were pretty even and the spirit shard towers are always a rat race.
@@LimpRichard dope dude. I play horde there as well. The towers have been great past few months. I've been able to get all 3 lvl 70s there on one layer before full cap lol.
Horde left firemaw because it was free to transfer from firemaw to a dead server, and then free to transfer off the dead server to gehennas.
blizzard screwed up
hmm interesting, i think u may be onto something where having factions on a single server might be the issue overall. So maybe faction specific servers with cross realm pvp? you would have to sacrifice wpvp tho (or maybe use sharding for zone faction balance?) but i think it might be worth it. Damn its a tough 1 really
Benediction was so awesome throughout classic. 50/50 population throughout all phases. Now it’s so overpopulated that you can’t even read the chat. It’s just endless GDKP and boost spamming.
its not hard to achieve. They literally just have to stop letting people make characters on a side that is unbalanced.
That would suck so bad
@@UglyBob. played many games that did it, was great and allowed for world pvp, this was in the ancient times before wow though.
I am routinely reminded that i am one of the few people that loved the open world pvp mess that was in phase 2 onwards and even in phase 1 of classic vanilla wow.
I loved the hostility of it all, it made stepping outside a city or town truly dangerous.
I know you would die a lot but the few times you were able to evade and escape your doom made up for every single failure.
exactly... most people do not like pvp servers.. and still play in them .. people are retarded...
12:53 they are ready to do this since phase 6 of classic, if you remember, then suddenly players nick names in chat could be expanded with - "server". And you could text everyone freely, even inviting to the group. Back then i had a pal that i invited, he was on other server, and we met at stockades, we could share loot and everything. Back then i thought it would be new era of raid boosting, with strong static taking whoever they want as long it's same faction. Well, it was removed after, dunno how fast
Make a migration preorder event. Blizz announces, say, a couple of weeks ahead that there will be a free transfer window. You can put yourself on a list or remove yourself at any time. The pretransfer numbers are public, so you can see the whole picture without committing first.
Maybe even set a deadline after which you can't remove yourself and the transfer is automatic.
In my opinion, what really killed classic servers and SoM was the fact that there was a 5000 server capacity + up to 10 layers.
It should be 7-10k population capacity and 0 layers.
That is one of the main reasons why private servers was so successfull.
Everyone on the same layer is a shit idea
you're joking, have you ever played a server with 10k active raiders all in the same timezone and layer? Open World content would be destroyed. They should have capped it at 3k and not let these 10-20k mega servers happen because they just act like a huge vacuum for people that play the game almost entirely inside instances. where do you think all the population of these imbalanced servers transferred to?
@@exmerion Ever played WoW vanilla 2004-2007? NO LAYERS.
Ever played the pservers Northdale, Nostalrius, Light's Hope etc that was more successfull than Blizzard servers? NO LAYERS and 7-10k server capacity. But they got closed by blizzard lawsuit.
@@nataliep6385 Vanilla Wow had 2.5k player caps on servers, so no. All the vanilla private servers were ruined by the large player population + a never ending peak time because people from all over the world playing. Even the map and gameplay designers said Azeroth was really only scaled for 2-2.5k max.
@@exmerion You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. So this discussion is over.
grobbulus is the last good classic server, but it can't stand forever, rip
There's nowhere else to go, Grobbulus will not die because alliance are aggressive and in great numbers in here, and many of us horde moved from Fairbanks here after the alliance were made extinct. The world pvp scene on grob is healthy aswell
Grobb will stand RPPVP servers are built different
I think the answer is simply human psychology. PvP can be fun, but for it to be fun, it needs to be fairly balanced. As soon as balance starts tilting a little bit the most sensitive people to being at a disadvantage leave the conflict area, from that point onwards the imbalance will only grow, faster and faster until one side is at such a disadvantage that even the most stoic people leave.
You see the same thing play out in real life, a battle to the last man is extremely rare, most often when people are sure they have been beaten they will attempt to give up.
There have been observations done on mice that play with each other, and what they observed was something similar, if one mouse is too dominant and too strong, it won't take too long before the other mice will stop playing with him/her, so the strong mouse will pretend to lose every once in a while just to retain his/her playmates.
I don't understand the point of War mode when we were already able to toggle pvp mode on regular non pvp servers.
I was leveling up a paladin on Faerlina when phase 2 dropped and literally overnight the game became unplayable to me. 30-45min corpse runs to get to BRD was killing any drive I had to play that character. It was honestly a really painful experience that made me transfer to PvE server and I never looked back. I blame toxic player behavior on why faction balance can't be achieved.
i just think pvp wasn’t for you man. it was awful at times getting to dungeons because of opposing factions but it’s part of the experience
*Laughs in Grobbulus*
@@pumpkiiin I've played in PvP servers in vanilla, and original TBC. It was never that bad.
I just don't understand this at all. Everything about Classic WoW is based on the community. That thing that was destroyed by Blizzard with LFG/LFR/ and mega servers. This same community that wanted to play a version of WoW without all of those things, seem to be hell bent on turning Classic in to Retail. They bitched about not having LFG in Wrath and got Blizzard to cave on it in under a week. They are doing everything that they can do to get on some mega server. They have done everything in their power to buy the leveling experience through boosting to the point that Blizzard finally had to kill boosting. If you don't like Classic WoW the way it is, why play it? Why are people who (allegedly) don't like retail, trying so hard to turn Classic WoW into retail?
That whole "You think you do, but you don't." quote that J Allen got flamed to death for.....all the guys who are involved in these activities....you're proving him right.
There is no good solution for the server imbalance, but what could decrease the problem is this : When a server got 10%+ of a side (Alliance or Horde), than the players on the weaker side should get a small experience & factions gain and damage buff (similar to the old Onixia Buff of Stormwind, but weaker). By greater population differences, this buff should get even stronger, until a maximum of 50% Exp Bonus and 50% Damage Bonus when a side is below 10% of the whole server population.
This is where a lesson from Dark Age of Camelot would help. Single faction PvE areas. For PvP you would have battlegrounds and also a large scale open PvP area. I'd suggest an Alliance only server and a Horde only server. pair servers up and link BG's. Have a new linked zone that you can jump into (Winter's Grasp or AV for example except larger) that had PvP objectives and let people go at it. Win win for everyone.
I wonder if WoW should consider an Eve Online approach? Where all players on each faction can interact peacefully until they sign up for faction warfare, where they are unable to enter the opposing faction's cities without being attacked. On top of that, if they join up in faction warfare, they need to rebuild their relations with the opposing faction if they ever want to reenter those cities after they retire from faction warfare. Maybe employ guild vs. guild just like in Eve Online? That'd be interesting.
My server was close to 50/50 through all of classic. After character boosts became a thing in tbc prepatch, players massively swapped to horde for the better racials and access to BE and paladins now being available. Soon after the alliance exodused to the mega server and my guild couldn’t even fill out our raid roster, forcing us to leave as well. I can’t help but feel like more people would’ve stayed on alliance if they didn’t have access to boosting a level 58 horde toon. Took away the leveling inconvenience.
I came back to the game recently and had previously played on Faerlina that was decently split horde vs alliance. When I returned it was over 99% horde, with only 7 ally in shat last night. I am marooned on an alliance dead server. I asked blizz if I could get my character moved and of course they said no that would be unfair to other players. They didnt have a problem creating this issue though. Ive since joined the alliance grob mob.
Well, if locking had an effect, I feel like logically the next step would just be to automatically lock servers are a certain population. This could stop players from simply flooding into a different server and creating the same problem there. I think the balance issue might just have to be ignored because honestly mega-servers are a much larger problem imo. Sure you have a nearly limitless pool of players to choose from, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to find people who are at least baseline competent and enjoyable to play with. You do necessarily have to contend with every questing area swarming with players who don't WANT to play together even if it means the quests could be finished faster. I just did the quest in STV with the Kurzen dudes and the jungle remedies, and we had to work out a whole pulling/camping protocol because at any given moment there was at least 10 people working on the quest. No one wants a dead server, and I get the impulse of choosing a server that is unlikely to ever suffer the same fate after giving in and shelling out for a transfer, but playing on a megaserver is not exactly a superior alternative.
All the noteable Horde guilds on Pyrrewood Village moved to Razorgore then to Golemagg which is 95% horde. It happend very quickly like 2-3 days.
Its so sad to see my formal server getting turned off. I played on herod alliance for all of classic and even tho it was always a 2-3 advantage to horde the alliance population was still big enough to have a great community. When TBC came out all the big guilds moved to other servers and herod went full horde and I took the free transfer away to a much bigger server and it just doesn't feel the same. if u go on that server now as alliance u get less then 10 players on at noon.
I was Herod Alliance for vanilla too, coming back for Wrath to see it gone was sad lol
Classic needs a flat damage% boost to the underpopulated faction on all servers in all outdoor content
I think the best solution is for blizzard to connect horde heavy servers with alliance heavy server. Maybe they can have alliance and horde players on differnt servers. And they can connect them together depending on the balance on those servers. Clearly we cant relly on players to keep faction balance, it must be done actively by blizzard, kinda like a dungeon master.
That is why cross server pvp became thing lol
Grobbulus is basically even in a pvp setting no hype for my server being even for so long
I’m trying to join wow classic but the most difficult I’m having to find the right server because toomuch of them are either too unbalanced of factions or just feels like an wasteland & those who seem to be have those 2 are locked making it very frustrating to go back to it from along time.
I was there when Benediction fell, and with much sadness was forced to join my friends and community on Faerlina. When the balance starts to shift and people choose not to deal with it, I understand. When the open world starts becoming more hostile to open world farmers and we see the auction house start dying, it just makes sense that you don't want to be there. PvP is all fine and good, and then it isn't. It just becomes an issue/chore when you just wanna have fun.
then dont go in a pvp server... what is it with you guys logic???
@@clawzdayz980 I was fine with PvP, but when guilds started leaving in mass and I couldn't find any good raids left, I knew it wasn't the place for me anymore.