Ysayle Explained (FFXIV Heavensward Lore)
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- Final Fantasy XIV is full of stories of heroic sacrifice. Many of those brave souls are remembered fondly, but Ysayle is a character I believe deserves more recognition for her efforts in Heavensward. Let's discuss why Lady Iceheart and the summoner of Shiva deserves better for ending the Dragonsong War.
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Alphinaud was right, she would've made a fine Scion of the Seventh Dawn.
If only!
She would’ve been a great asset. Definitely deserving of the honor.
How dare you make me feel these feelings this morning
@@scifisyko I'm sorry lol
@@scifisyko The realization that flow was probably sung for ysayle too as she rejoined the sea. "well come and well met, my brave little spark."
Estinien also named his new lance Nidhogg. It seems to be he knows the value of both fury and temperance.
Indeed he did.
@@StoutHelm But I also notice he talks to lance as well as if His dragon spirit is part of the lance itself creating a partnership between the two which is cool. Seeing as living weapons exist in the world of ff14
The lance bathed in Nighoggs blood, Estinien himself still holds a lingering connection with the dragons soul - both Tiamat and Vrtra acknowledge this. Its save to assume, he didnt name his lance "Nidhogg" but that he literally calls upon Nidhoggs spirit to aid him.
I still love the unvoiced and idle banter you can get if you talk to Ysayle when first meeting the the Moogles "of the sky". She makes a quip to the tune of "What? My heart isn't made of actual ice!" when going on about how cute she finds their fuzzyness. I took a screencap of it a the time because it had me in stitches, it'd be just a matter of finding it.
I love this too.
Time to replay cutscene! 💖
@@Anukii It wasn't in a cutscene - it was just dialogue from just talking to Ysale in the open world at that specific point in the story.
@@pattmyn Ah crap! I wish you luck in finding that screenshot 😭
I hate that I can't remember what it was but there was DEFINITELY another moment like this where she was bowled over by something cute during my playthrough. it is definitely part of her character, similar to Sakaki from Azumanga Daioh.
Not just Estinien, but the Warrior of Light and Alphinaud, too. If you have done your duty with the Scions on that instance and Alphinaud is in your party, he’ll say and pay respect to Ysayle for what she did. For the Warrior of Light, the image of Myste is a reflection to both Lady Iceheart and Haurchefaunt. Their deep regret I’m not being able to save them sharpened them greatly as the quest reveals the Dark Knight’s other side: Regret. Regret of not being able to save and seeing their friends slain and not being able to do anything about it. I think those three, along with the heretics, will remember her deeply.
On the side note, one of my friends is a huge fan of Shiva and her character. I only wish I could tell her what she did in Endwalker as we fight Amon
What I like most about Ysayle is her religious undertones and subtext which can best be surmised as an analogy to Joan of Arc.
Joan believed she heard the voice of God, and Ysayle believed that she was Shiva reborn. Both figures had blind faith and hope which are not bad things, but in Ysayle's case, it definitely skewed her perception a bit. But the core of their beliefs are still there, a want for peace and the instinct of a calling for what is greater.
I hadn’t considered the Joan of Arc connections until now but you’re totally right.
T_T now it's pretty wild that I called her crazy given how people viewed Jeanne/Joan
There was a turning point for me, when final fantasy passed from "good" to "great", it's that voiced scene on the way to Zenith and Hraesvelgr, when the characters just sit at a campfire and talk. Ysayle and Estinien's growth from that moment resonated with me strongly. And a lot of what made Heavensward so fun was the depth given to those two central characters, culminating in both of their sacrifice for a greater good, though Estinien was thankfully saved by Alphinaud. Ysayle's death was one of the strongest moment in the whole msq for me, one that I carried all the way, honestly more then Haurchefant's.
Hi Stout Helm! Enjoyed the video, but some clarifications-
- Snowcloak's theme is called "The Warrens".
- It was Ratatoskr who told the Elezen about how the dragons' eyes worked, rather than the Ascians, according to Encyclopedia Eorzea. It might also be helpful to look at the Level 80 Dragoon Job quest to understand when and why Thordan turned on her if you want to include that.
- Ysayle is mentioned by Alphinaud in Endwalker (admittedly in an aside to Estinien) when Vrtra reveals himself as satrap to his people and they accept him.
My fault for not consulting the EE on Ratataskr and reading online instead. Thank you for your insight. I had forgotten he mentioned her in regards to Vytra.
The Warrior of Light also flashes back to her in Endwalker when Vrtra talks to them about protecting their friends. In Heavensward, Alphinaud briefly talks about her at the Intercessory in Camp Dragonhead whilst reflecting on Matoya's words.
Its so sad when you think about the fact that when all the primals appear to help chatge the Ragnarok that Shiva is missing due to Ysalye being the only one to actively pray to her.
stop breaking my heart man
@xXluluchanelXx How do you think I felt noticing it, I didn't notice on the first time through only after re-watching the cutscenes.
I mean, she did get a cameo in Endwalker. Probably more of a direct reference than any other character aside from Minfilia.
Lots of characters did in Endwalker though.
Still can't get over the fact that Shiva and by extension Ysalye fell in love with a dragon
Definitely one of the wilder stories. A love so strong she let a dragon eat her alive. Nuts.
Is that how Auri were born? And if so, might that explain the massive height difference between the males and females?
@@R_Valentin Auri are actually not dragon-related at all. It's a misconception that is part of the lore
One of the things that helped boost Haurchefant’s legacy was he was one of the first npcs that had a portrait in game for us to use in housing. When I first started playing, I looked around the residence areas and I noticed this Elezen was on so many peoples walls and hearths, apparently he was pretty important to the players. Maybe Ysayle or even Shiva should have some sort of furnishing.
i was crazy shouting weee whom gods and man have forsaken, shall be the instruments of our own deliverance... cause she was so cool.
She is one of the cooler allies we’ve had.
I once told my friend about how much I loved Shiva and his response was word for word “Who are they FFXIV makes sure to only remind me of Harchefaunt from HW and no one else” and I literally couldn’t respond bc it shook me to my core. Harchie is a good lad but the amount of times he’s been referenced and gets flashbacks is INSANE compared to others we lost like Ysayle, Moenbryda, Papalymo etc. it’s fine if he gets more attention than them but not ALL of it
Papalymo is another who doesn’t get much remembrance. His situation is a bit different. I think the writers truly didn’t know what to do with him so they had him sacrifice himself.
Harchefaunt is the more popular character by far (at least among the English-speaking player base). That's why.
EDIT: A discussion of the difference between English and Japanese Harchefaunt might be interesting for newer players who may not be aware
@@StoutHelm Honestly yeah, I don't have any super strong feelings for him since between Yda-lyse and him, he just made her better. And then losing him and having Lyse find her own footing just made us lose the Chaotic Gridanian Duo. Will say in 5.4 to EW Lyse did start to have her little rash, unhinged moments that I missed.
@@foxyfoxington2651 Oh ye he is 100% very popular, even in the Japanese playerbase with Hornyfaunt he still is really liked. And its not that I have issues with him getting that! Its just there is such an insane gap between Harchie getting brought up in memorable ways vs. Ysayle and Papalymo. The Aitascope had those two be impactful (ESPECIALLY SHIVA I SOBBED OUTLOUD) but Haurchefaunt was still there (Again, no issue that he is, its just when other characters do get the attention for once, he is also there)
@@StoutHelm the only thing we have for Papalymo was a quest in Old Sharlayan. Once you do all the blue quests in Labyrinthos, you can find a quest in the city where you get to meet his parents, reminiscing about his past and deeds up until the last time they heard of him.
...it's a shame that the quest is treated like a regular one, so people might miss them out
There is another quest where u reflect on her sacrifice which takes you through all the heavensward areas,ending with the wol putting flowers in azys la as a memorial for her passing
Her scenes still make me cry years later! 😭
I would like to see more her reference in future, with Alphy/Alisae in Garlemald would be great!.
look like twin continue her dream.
"my dream of a tomorrow in which no child need freeze alone in the snow"
Same here!
I'm excited and haven't started yet uwu
Yup loved it
Thanks friend, I’m glad you enjoyed it!
The Shiva transformation is such a cool ability, too.
Right?? A bummer we don’t get much akin to it now.
Another great video. Glad I found your channel.
And I’m glad you’re here too. 😁
You've got my sub, I was looking for a good lore channel for ffxiv! Thank you!
Thank you friend, I hope the videos to come are enjoyable for you.
@@StoutHelm I have only watched ten all while playing ff14. It's been a great experience keep working hard!
It's an odd thing to realize that we lost so many characters pertinent to the story during Heavensward. Then, in the later three expansions, aside from Minifilia in ShB, the writers ultimately chose to spare any characters directly related to the MSQ. Sure there are a few fake-outs, such as the battle between Thancred and Ranjit in ShB as well as the entire final zone in EW, but ultimately, any character who gets killed is a peripheral character who we met moments before.
Heavensward is one of my favorite expansions and I think these situations really sold the stakes of what we were fighting for. It felt like it was just you, Tataru and Alphinaud for awhile.
@@StoutHelm I feel like that's something the subsequent expansions have failed to really capture. With the other scions blinked, and Alisae off training with X'Rhun the situation did seem a lot more dire. I'm not advocating for killing off the scions like something out of Game of Thrones, but I just wish there was a way to make the situation feel pressing, like the stakes are higher. I mean, we saved the known universe from a depressed bird, but it just couldn't capture that same feeling that I experienced during Heavensward.
That's because of the duty support system and I hate that just because of that reason. From what it looked like it seemed like the writers did want to kill of Thancred during his fight against Ran'jit and I can understand why since he had already for filled his role as a character and his arc over so there is no point having him stick around right? Oh you be wrong! the gameplay devs came and said ''We need a Tank character in duty support for the level 77 dungeon!'' So they couldn't kill him off.
That is what pisses me off the most because I realized that during Shb and some time later I got to ultima thule and you know what happens there. All of the sacrifices were supposed to be meaningful moments in the story but since I know there is a dungeon waiting in the end, it spoiled the entire experience ruining all suspense and immersion.
Duty support shouldn't exist in an MMO to begin with because as the genre's name implies MULTIPLAYER. I know the only reason the devs did it was because there are fans of the Final Fantasy franchise who didn't touch 14 because they don't wanna play a multiplayer or with other people game AT ALL and if they cared about playing only for the story to begin with then they wouldn't mind joining a group of 3 other players. But still the devs are catering to this insufferable crowd of people...
@@vikkran401 I wouldn't say that is the only reason why Duty Support exists. I don't know about you, but the waiting periods for even story quests as a DPS can be as long as 30 minutes. And even though there are xp grinding options in the form of the deep dungeons and Bozjan, those can get VERY repetitive especially once the grind slows down as you reach the 60,70,80,90 level barriers. Duty Support adds another option to the grind. In addition, Duty Support helps to teach players boss mechanics ("Oh the AI is all moving to this one corner, maybe I should follow?") without feeling like you are letting other players down or bothering them with questions (not really a problem with the community on FF14, but people do have various forms of social anxiety). Not to mention, Duty Support doesn't end up taking away from the rest of the players. There are still PLENTY of DPS raring to go with a group and the waits for healers and tanks are still about 5 to 10 minutes on a bad day.
In addition to this, I disagree with the reason for the Scions not dying being tied to Duty Support. Even from the conception, the developers showed that they can and will make some characters serve as multiple types based on what class you have. All removing a tank would mean for Duty Support due to a character death is that another character would get a dual typing, or they would bring in another character like the Crystal Exarch.
No, the reason for the lack of deaths is because ShadowBringers and Endwalker were because there was already a major theme of catastrophic (even calamitous) despair that remained consistent in both stories (admittedly with a sudden upturn RIGHT before the end with both stories). In Shadowbringers, I don't think Thancred's death would have been at that point would have had the impact one would expect for a major supporting cast, and in Endwalker the feeling of despair is almost overwhelming at some points of the story that having the Scions remain dead would have felt like an unnecessary gut punch.
Heavensward in contrast felt much lighter in the middle. You were already cleared of the charges that started the WoL's self-imposed exile to Ishgard (having saved Raubahn and found Nanamo alive), ended the threat of Nidhogg (admittedly not a permanent end), and were well on the way of putting an end to the lies that fueled the cycle of violence. The narrative stakes weren't as high with Thordan by himself, even with it being clear that there is Ascian manipulation going on (which ended up poorly for them later). Hell even after the Vault, the approach to Thordan still kind of feels like the formulaic approach to a primal encounter (a primal is coming, but we don't know how to approach it due to some barrier, we adventure to get a means to break through the barrier, we go to approach the primal). Harchefant's and Ysayle's deaths both help to add to the narrative stakes. It makes the ending fight to the MSQ of 3.0 not just another standard primal, but added in much needed personal touch.
Killing her was such a huge mistake and was a complete 180 of her arc. She was setup to find redemption in fixing the destruction her mistakes caused but then she disappears after you return to ishgard only to show up right at the end and decide to sacrifice herself instead.
They could easily fix it by not having her go back to ishgard with you and just have her stay were she was.
I loved the reference to her in Garlimauld. It just seems she’s referred to subtly while Haurchefant is like beating a dead horse at this point
Haurche will always be that definitive martyr for the game. People just resonated with him a little bit more than the rest.
@@StoutHelm The way an FC mate puts it is that Haurchefant kinda becomes the moral compass for the WoL after that point. He was so helpful and nice throughout his life and he died immediately in front of the player character by taking a hit that was intended for us. That's why he shows up in certain flashback instances.
A lot of people go "oh but she laughed as she lead the dragons into slaughtering the people of ishgard with the poorest taking the brunt of it" but thing is, that wasnt her intention.
She created a hole in ishgards defences expecting the dragons to do the most logical thing when they got in, to finally win the war by wiping out the ishgardian leadership and elite in one swoop. At that point she didnt know that the real point of it all was extending the war forever for the sake of abject suffering. With even the heretics only existing so nidhogg could have the descandants of the men responsible for his sisters death, slaughter each other using the power of the same dragon blood they did it for.
I know HW is super old by now, and even more the Seventh Astral Era quests leading up to it, but I'll put a spoiler warning here anyways. So uh, SPOILERS for Seventh Astral Era and Heavensward. You've been warned.
The thing about the meeting with Ysayle in HW, where she claims remorse for those past actions and underestimating how far the dragons would go is... the categorically evil laugh she cackles when she disables the barrier to let the dragons in in the first place. That combined with the very extremely clear 'i want revenge on all of humanity, or at least all of Ishgard' that Nidhogg, the leader of the actual dragons waging war, uses throughout the rest of HW, I find it extremely hard to believe that Ysayle would be so naively optimistic that the dragons answering Nidhogg's call WOULDN'T slaughter every last Ishgardian if given the chance.
This has always been such a huge sticking point for me about HW that I never see anyone talk about, probably because no one likes playing through ARR, that rather than actually have Ysayle confront a bad thing she did, they sort of sweep it under the rug by saying 'oh she didn't MEAN to slaughter a bunch of innocents, please ignore the evil laugh and believe that she's totally only ever had the best intentions. She wants to stop the war, totally! That's exactly why she opened the gates to the eternally vengeful dragons, for peace.'
Like, I love HW, but when viewed in the context of the entire story, Ysayle's 180 tonal shift to some kind of pacifist voice is just way too much too soon to be at all believable. And I think the reason so many people overlook it is because barely anyone plays through the Seventh Astral Era quests (but honestly, even pre quest compression when it was long as balls, I didn't ever really have a problem with them. Heck, I enjoyed them more than the A Realm Reborn storyline. I think people playing through the story, especially from the beginning, should give Seventh Astral Era a fair shake. Yeah, it's still pretty long, but if you pay attention to what's going on, I think you'll find it interesting enough that the length is a bit of a non-issue, you DID just play through ARR after all. You can probably handle Seventh Astral Era just fine).
Just found your channel and so glad I did. I agree that Ysayle is really given short shrift. Her story impacts me more than any other NPC in the game -- I teared up again just watching your video. I really wanted a portrait of her to put in my house and I couldn't believe they didn't have one. For whatever reason, Haurchefant's death didn't hit me nearly as hard as hers did. I think it was how human her character was that made me love her so much. Haurchefant was almost too perfect -- he was wronged, but accepted his lot cheerfully, didn't make any big mistakes, always the "good guy." Of course he was likeable and people mourned his sacrifice, but I didn't feel the depth of connection with him like I did with Ysayle. Maybe it was because we got to witness the Iceheart/Ysayle transformation from villain to hero. She seemed cold on the outside, but watching her with the moogles showed how warm she could be. Seeing her beliefs shattered, how it destroyed her, but then how she picked herself back up and carried on -- it's really relatable for me. I did appreciate her being at the scene with the eyes and the flowers you could find for her at Azys La, but I'd like something a bit more permanent.
Edit: really appreciated you have "The Warrens" playing during the video. I had that as my home orchestron music for a while but it made me too sad so had to change it. Still love it tho!
Her story impacts me more then the first head of the Scions. I know Thancred carries on her will as does Ryne who side note I like far more then her original namesake. But it is lady Iceheart our dear Moon and our champion silver knight that come to my mind when the game says for those we have lost. And while Moenbryda and Haurchefant are the heroes I miss the most it is thanks to Ysayle that I still think the story of 3.0 is one of if not the strongest 14 has given us.
I hate how Moenbryda was taken from us so soon. I liked what she brought to the table.
@@StoutHelm Why couldn't it have been the pink penny pincher?!
@@ProfessM HOW DARE YOU!
@@rajabuta When the potato dared to ruin Haurchefant's memorial by screaming about money.
@@ProfessM CONTEXT! And that potato is one of two reasons that estinien joined!
a small reference to her is in emperyeum near plot 11 -- there's a spot near some snowmen and igloos that's called "Dangoulain's Devotion" in reference to her last name. it's pretty small and easy to miss, but it's a really nice and subtle homage to her and why i have my in-game house there lol
Indeed. I'm still waiting for Ishgard to name a street or a foundation (or maybe even Foundation lol) after her. Her and Minfilia, my WoL's first two loves, both stolen away too soon. It's not that I think Ysayle needs to be brought back or anything (unlike Minfilia), her story was pretty satisfying, but she really ought to be canonized or something by her native land. Or give us some flashback scenes to see her again. All we really got was the Aitiascope, and it was as Shiva that we saw her there.
Miss her so much 😢
I never liked Ysayle during her time with us. I found a multitude of holes in her story and walked away thinking she was an idiot for most of her story. I never even noticed how little the game referenced her until someone who adored her mentioned it. And I felt a bit guilty.
She fundamentally misunderstood so much, but was able to change her course and used what power she had to give us a chance to save everyone. Her actions wouldn't affect the WoL the same way they would Estinien or Alphinaud, simply because we weren't confused or struggling to stay on the correct path the same way they were.
I also really like how she elevates Estinien as a character. But I’m probably biased since he’s one of my favorites.
I've liked Ysayle, as a Joan of Arc analogue who fought and died for her dreams and conviction. She understands and realizes her mistakes as well, like misunderstanding just how horrible the siege of Ishgard ended up becoming--though I will knock her a few points down for saying "it was out of my control." Sometimes I wonder what it would have been like if she survived and joined the Scions rather than make a last stand as a form of repentance. Unfortunately, I also feel like she would've contributed very little through Stormblood and Shadowbringers, maybe show up here and there alongside the Ishgardians offering support, (not as shiva though, as a symbolic way of her walking a new path).
I agree with this mostly. She’d be relegated to the background and there’s already some scions who, as of late, haven’t had much to do. I’m glad Y’shtola has some newfound purpose post the main story.
Great vid! Gotta disagree with some comments saying she'd have been useless in Stormblood and Shadowbringers tho- A charismatic mage & refugee leader with the blessing of light and the ability to turn herself into a Primal? Her character is the cloth from which Fordola and Yotsuyu are cut, and she could have shared 1/2 the burden of the Lightwardens.
Not that that should have happened, mind you. It wouldn't have made a lot of narrative sense, but mechanically it would have been fine.
"Wow" -Stout
Noooo bro please tell me I didn’t leave an outtake in there. Where is this??? Lol
15:05
Thank you. Gonna get that snipped
I haven't seen it mentioned in the comments I've perused, but along with Estinien calling his spear Nidhogg, his armour is called "Iceheart"
your voice is so amazing
This made my day! I sometimes hate the sound of my voice.
Yeah, yeah she does. Alas....
There’s also eden 08 savage that pays tribute to her too
u ever love a character so much u legit prog an ultimate just to see her again?
Dedication.
my family didn't love me this much lmao
it was hard to settle on a dragon voice, but i think british works :-)
You did good boyo
Me as a hero I'm erozea. So who we saving and howw much will it pay me idc anything else lol
best girllllll
I actually didn't really like Haurchefant, thought he was a bit annoying, but I loved how human Ysayle was, from her personality being the most flashed out of all the main cast in the first three expansions, to her trying to repent, she was amazing. Too bad they killed her off for no reason.
Be careful! I've voiced this same sentiment and been blasted for it. Ysayle actually knowingly sacrificed herself with the knowledge she would most likely die. Her sacrifice was very meaningful to me.
A re-upload?
Yes. I had some pronunciation mistakes in this previous video I wanted to correct. Apologies for the confusion. This is the version that will stay up. Hope you understand.
I may understand what she went through but I still believe that if she would still be alive she would need to go behind bars for the atrocity she caused to Ishgard. The child should never pay for the sin of the parent. Beside, it's not like the population was guilty. Only the leaders at the time.
I still did leave a thumbs up for positive algorithm stuff. Keep those video going, even if I do disagree with this one :)
Have a wonderful day :)
let be clear. Gaius van Baelsar remains outside of prison, and he committed far worse than she did.
@@maevekirkland9452 That's another character who should not be walking free.
Thank you friend. I’m more than okay with disagreeing with my takes, I’m definitely not always right.
@@someonecomenting1300 well...you could say he's currently doing community service by assisting the village from the Weapons questline. As well as doing whatever the Eorzean Alliance needs him to do
My probably only complaint with the FF XIV story is that a lot of antagonists don't really get held accountable. Pure as your intentions may be, when they're bought with the blood of the innocent you forfeit the moral high ground.
im addicted to these videos and the lore, god its too bad the combat in this game is so horribly slow i cant get past lvl 20 tried like 10 times already. at least i get to experience the story through yah
My main problem with Ysayle is that there was never an option in the story for our Warrior of light 'not' to forgive her. My character never would have forgiven her for opening the way to the brume. Not after visiting it themselves and seeing the devastation wrought by her choices. In all seriousness, I would have liked Ysayle more if my character were given the option 'not to like her'. She can mean something for Estinien's story. The fact that we were never really given that option always made me more bitter towards the character overall. But generally speaking the only thing that I could feel towards her by the end with her sacrifice was 'well you finally made up for your mistakes. Good enough. Good bye Ysayle.'
I think I honestly had an easier time forgiving Hermes, since at the very least he didn't pull the stunts that he did in his right mind, was suffering from severe mental trauma and seemed to earnestly want to fight against the end until everything took its tole and damaged his soul to the point where it couldn't be fixed.
Those situations of siding with someone or not are just too complex to work in FFXIV. I know Kotor did a solid job with them but I don’t think the games overall narrative would work. The dialogue choices with Zenos in the final fight with him are a decent way to handle it: I can understand your frustrations though.
She just wasn't around long enough.
I agree, it felt like she was with us for a very short time
FFXI deserved better too but this is what square enix does to those who hope.
I’ve been so close to resubbing for the nostalgia.
@@StoutHelm sadly I recently unsubscribed after playing for 15+ years. Yoshi-p will not give ffxi a budget so I won't pay for it if they not gonna support it. I'll wait till it's free or combined subs with ff14.
@@pipz420 thats not up to Yoshi P? that is up to the board. Yoshi P is a member of the board but he doesnt hold all the decision making power nor is he CFO of SE
Correct.
I'll say what I said in the last vid. She was just meh for me. Not a great character but nothing special. Moon on the other hand should have been written to be around longer.
Another problem with Ysayle is so many of the newer characters are just brighter stars.
11:55 I disliked the story. She was such an annoying megalomaniacal character. The wol would have been able to kill her many times but chose to let her go. That makes him part of the problem and responsible for the death of the Ishgardian people.