Unveiling Twistweight: A New Paddle Metric and My Comprehensive Paddle Database
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- Twistweight is a pickleball paddle measurement that you should be considering when you research paddles. Use my new paddle database to compare twistweight measurements and find your next paddle.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Into
0:25 - What is Twistweight
0:56 - How it's Calculated
1:43 - Intro to Database
2:38 - How to Read Twistweight
3:30 - Twistweight Trends
PADDLE DATABASE LINKS:
Website version: pickleballeffect.com/pickleba...
Spreadsheet version: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
PADDLES MENTIONED:
CRBN 2X 16mm (code: 10EFFECT): bit.ly/3Q0q12S
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Next level review research. Swing weight got overlooked for a long time also. Didn't even know this "gadget" existed. Thanks for all you do to get info to "paddle nerds".
Paddle nerds!
great info Braydon....sometimes we overlook the things that really affect our play...we all don't hit the sweet spot so this data helps for all those mis-hits
We all need help there!
Love the new twistweight metric! I definitely prefer paddles with higher twistweight and now there is a quantitative metric to help me pick my paddle. I would have never thought to try the crbn x series if it wasnt for this review. Now the crbn 2x is my go to paddle after trying pretty much all the thermoformed ones (including Vatic, Volair, Sixzero, and Ronbus). Thank you Braydon!
Nice! I'm really big on this metric and I'm glad to hear it's helping already.
This is Awesome !
Yeah, it’s nice to have. It’ll become a more popular metric with time.
Nice to have an actual "sweetspot" metric. Comparing different "hybrid" paddles against the 2X seems to agree with my experience. The 2X really does feel more forgiving with a good size sweetspot. Glad you're now including twistweight in your paddle testing!
Glad to hear you had a similar experience. The 2X is pretty unique that way.
Thanks to this review and Braydon’s offering of used like new paddles, I decided to get a 2X and it is now my go to paddle! The quality, shape and handle length are a good fit for my ping pong style grip.
I like this new metric. I would imagine lead tape added to the sides would also effect twist weight in a positive way and it would be interesting to see how much the twist weight is effected by lead tape. Thanks for all the work put into this.
Great info, would think the new Gearbox paddles somewhat disguise the sweet spot with those low twist weights, but i have heard of people adding weight as well.
I like the category idea for spin numbers. People get waaaaaay too bent out on the individual numbers.
Will be interesting to compare twist weight numbers and see if it varies like weight/swing weight does in paddles. I've started collecting data on my hoard of paddles. I knew holding them would come in handy eventually. 😂
I imagine they will vary a little but our Swingweight numbers are usually really close. And yeah ha, I’ve given away a ton of paddles and now I wish I had some of them back lol.
Hey guys I love these in spreadsheet form - I'm working now to calculate what I call "value quotient" and categories help, but numbers are where it's at. I'm no stat genius but will keep poking around. Thank you all.
This is great info! Would personally love to see Ronbus and Legacy numbers in your spreadsheet. Another thing is testing the effect of lead tape on zones that are supposed to help with the sweet spot.
Great suggestion! I have it in my notes to do an experiment on how lead tape changes the Twistweight. I’m also talking with Ronbus right now about getting their paddles and will see what I can do about legacy.
@@pickleballeffect I'd welcome that info as I currently play the Ronbus R3 Pulsar with 0.2 oz x 2 Pb-tape at 3-5 and 7-9 o'clock w/ total weight of 8.5 oz.
This is awesome! Will you be testing the Legacy Pro anytime soon?
Yes, it’s on my list to add.
Hi Pickleball effects. I love your scientific approach. I have had the opportunity to work with the brifiddi machine and alter my DB sixzero from the original twistweight to 7.6 and SW 116. My question is that change to much? In your opinion how much should you change the twistweight with out it making it to drastic hope this makes sense. for example Ben john changed one of his paddle originally tw: 5.87 to 6.94 and SW 116 to 120.
Depends on the paddle. In the case of your DBD it already has a pretty good TW out of the box so you don't need to add as much to get it too a really good place. Ben's paddle is not as strong TW wise so he has to add more weight and consequently more SW. For standard shaped paddles that are lighter than a DBD but have stronger TW numbers out of the box the focus is less on TW and more of just getting the right weight amount and balance you like.
Great information! Any idea about twist weight on the Selkirk Vanguard (v 2) Mach 6?
I think I have that one. I can pull it out and add it.
Do your viewers a favor. Please add Ronbus to this list - they are excellent paddles!
Yes, I’ve been chatting with them recently. Hoping to get there paddles soon. Thanks for the feedback. This is just a start, the database will grow overtime.
Thanks Braydon. Good info on twistweight and great database. Quesiton - would adding lead tape on the sides of the paddle increase the twistweight and arguably the forgiveness of the paddle?
Yes, it does. I’ve done some testing with this and the Twistweight does increase with lead tape on the sides or bottom two corners. I need to do some more testing to determine the best placement and quantity for it though.
Yes, I was wondering how the twist weight score can be affected by adding lead tape. Can you add lead tape and get the score to 8 or higher? How would that affect the other measurements? Also, is there a direct relation between increased power (pop) and lower twist weight and vice versa? If not, why would anyone want a low twist weight? I play with both the Vatic Pro V7 16mm and the Selkirk Power Air. Very different paddles.
Also, is there a reason you do not specify surface or core materials used, foam injection, unibody construction, thermoforming, handle circumference? I know there must be a limit to the criteria listed, but those are things I hear talked about a lot when discussing paddles. I think you did a great job on the database! Thank you for your work! It would be fascinating if you could eventually add older, classic paddles to see how technology has changed through the years.
@@robsutton3092 interesting ideas. I linked my spreadsheet version of the data in the description. You can make a copy of it in google sheets and run some of your own analysis. Lots of fun things you can do there.
@@robsutton3092 no reason I left certain things out. I like the idea of adding a column of the construction style of the paddle like cold pressed, foam injection, etc. I just want to be careful the table doesn’t get too big and hard to navigate. Thanks for the feedback.
Do you have any info on the Gruvn raw 16RX? It’s a unique paddle. Elongated, oval shape with a six inch handle.would be interesting to see the twist weight on it to note if the sweet spot is better with the oval shape like most have pointed out.
I don’t have those yet. Thanks for the suggestion. I’m working on getting more paddles to keep growing the database.
D0 I need to adjust the weights everytime I rewrap the overgrip on my paddle would love your thoughts.
No, rewrapping it won’t change anything enough to have to adjust the weights.
Does the Electrum Pro II really have a sweet spot that big based on your twist weight measurements?
Good question. No. That’s the one Twistweight measurement that didn’t align with how it played. I’ve found that Twistweight is a good indicator of the size of the sweet spot in the majority of cases but there are outliers like the Pro 2 so it’s still good to read reviews.
Interested in seeing the Perseus on there. I'm almost certain it's really low which means the thing isn't that stable. Would also love to see the RPM numbers you're getting for each Paddle and see if they match up with what Chris Olsen gets.
It is in there and it is lower. I decided to do spin numbers a little differently. Rather then put the exact RPMs I’m putting them in categories. I think people put too much weight on the spin numbers. Once paddles are in the 1700+ range you get diminishing returns.
@@pickleballeffect Ah for some reason it wasn't loading the full spreadsheet for me lol. I see it now. Thanks for all your work man
@@namtran512 nice! I’ll get more paddles in there overtime, this is just a starting point. And yeah, I’m glad it’s helpful.
Would love to see your analysis on the Gamma Obsidian 13 & 16mm
I haven’t hit those yet. Do you have them and like em?
@@pickleballeffect I have the Gamma Obsidian 16 and love the paddle! I've added lead tape and an overgrip to help with the balance and power. I think it plays very similar to the Ronbus Nova but has a bit less power more like the Vatic Prism Flash 16.
I have had a 16 for 2 months and I love it. I would love the data on them.
@@artifishalsportfishing7224 I’ll reach out tooto them, y’all talked me into it.
Hi, is there an associated rpm range for the spin rating column? Also, how should we interpret the balance point number? This data is great, thank you.
Yeah, on my webpage version there is a section that has the definitions and stuff for each column. That has what you’re looking for.
@pickleballeffect perfect. Do you have the Legacy Pro? Did not see it on the list. Thank you.
2 Questions: 1. Thermoforming seems to increase sweet spot. Does the twist weight measurement device factor in the effect of thermoforming?
2. If you have a paddle with a lower twistweight, would adding weight to the lower shoulders of the paddle increase the twist weight, or would ir be better to add to the middle sides of the paddle?
1) yes, something about thermoforming improves the twistweight. I'm not exactly sure why but you can tell when you play with them that they feel more stable. 2) I did an experiment with this and will be publishing the video about it tomorrow but the short and sweet is that adding lead tape to the sides/middle improves twistweight the most.
@@pickleballeffect I was watching a video on the 17x7 inch thermoformed Pickleball Apes Pro Line Energy paddle that several people like, but I found out the twistweight on it is only 5.66 (probably because of it being narrow and long) I was thinking that could be improved with some weight. Thank you.
Could you share the units for Twist Weight? I was surprised to see that the Vatic Pro Prism-V7 has a higher twist weight than the Prism-Flash, but I assume it’s mostly because the Prism-V7 weighs more. A bit of math would be able to determine how much effect some lead tape on the sides of the paddle would have.
This article explains it. It’s over my head through ha, impactingtennis.com/education-tools/twistweight/
Thanks so much! If these are the same units (kg-cm^2), then with my Vatic Prism-Flash being 19.5cm wide, all it would take to bring it up to the same twist weight as the Prism-V7 is two 3g strips of lead tape (one on each side).
@@StarmanDXE boom!
Hello, love the database - can't help but see how much of a value the Electrum Pro 2 is at 150 you get a twistweight over 7, and very high spin. Numbers are close to JohnKews database but now I have to dig deeper (or maybe just across) - rabbit hole anyone ??
The twistweight is typically a good measurement for the size of the sweet spot but the number is deceiving on the Pro 2, it has an average sized sweet spot and isn’t oversized like the number suggests. Great spin though.
Thank you for the reply - do you mind if I bump your spreadsheet against John's ? I'd like to run a video on the spreadsheet data but also like to ask permission too. @@pickleballeffect
@@andrewgedman1214go for it, sounds cool.
Do you happen to know the twist rate on the Double Diamond or Mach 1 Forza?
Not off the top of my head but those are in my paddle database. Link is in description.
Would love to see the Selkirk project 003 numbers
I don’t have that one :/ I bet it’s a low Twistweight though.
I'm not quite on understanding the statement about the correlation btw sweet spot & shape. I thought hybrid shape would have a bigger sweet spot than standard size?
Standard shapes have the highest Twistweight numbers and biggest sweet spot, hybrids have the second best, and elongated shapes have the smallest Twistweight numbers and sweet spot. On average.
What camera do you use, also where can i get the machine to test for twistweight?
Camera to shoot my videos? I’m not a big production person and do everything on my iPhone. The machine I use is called the Briffidi SW1 and I use the 5cm and Twistweight adapters.
thanks!@@pickleballeffect
Have you done a gamma ibsiobsidian 16?
I’m trying to acquire one right now but I don’t have them yet.
Will adding lead/weight at the bottom increase the swing weight?
Yes, here’s a video I did looking at that, ruclips.net/video/IUAsK-ySnVE/видео.html.
Braydon - If you add weight to the side of the paddle, does it show an increase in the twist weight?
It does. I need to do some tests to see how different locations change the twist weight but it does help with that.
@@pickleballeffect - I kind of figured that. I see the future being a lot of little one inch to two inch weights that you can to any paddle to make the sweet spot as big as possible. Thanks for your videos and advice.
Can you add lead tape to increase the twist rate with out increasing swing weight also do recommend owning that swing weight machine you have Bifindii sorry if I spelled it wrong
No, any place you add it will have some effect on the seeing weight but if you put it in the throat area of the paddle that will help with the twistweight some while effecting the swing weight the least.
What about buying the machine
@@edwardross1012 yeah, anyone can buy one. It's called the Briffidi SW1 and you'll need the twistweight adapter and the 5cm adapter if you want to measure swingweight.
@@pickleballeffect sorry for all the text back and forth do you think I am over thinking this by buying a machine. Would I need to change the placement of the weights everyone I put on a new overgrip
@@pickleballeffect D0 I need to adjust the weights everytime I rewrap the overgrip on my paddle would love your thoughts.
Great idea adding twistweight to your database. Tennis has been using this metric for decades (check out Tennis Warehouse's University/Learning-Center for more info - apparently I can't post a link). I'd like to suggest another metric - stiffness/flex. The Babolat Racquet Diagnostic Center (RDC) machine is used by racquet manufacturers and pro shops to measure swingweight, twistweight, flex/stiffness, etc. for tennis racquets. Recently, Wilson has released its Bairado Tune Pro machine which can do the same for PB paddles. Here's a YT video of the Tune Pro which I believe I'm allowed to link ... ruclips.net/video/UIff_IURSYs/видео.html. Senior players and/or those with wrist/elbow/shoulder issues might appreciate having stiffness numbers to help select paddles. I've noticed thermoformed/unibody paddles are noticeably stiffer along the vertical beam/axis than sandwich/Gen-1 paddles. Note - as discussed in the video, I believe your Briffidi measures swingweight either at 0cm or 5cm from the butt cap depending on which adapter is being used. Not sure where the Bairado's reference point is. Will be interesting to see where the PB industry lands in the coming years on standardization of the swingweight measurement.
Why would twist weight have to do with size of sweet spot. Seems like the internals as they approach the edge would be the most determining factor. I guess if you make it more outside heavy. it's less likely to twist. Seems like a tighter grip or stickier handle would help too. Also dont you want it to twist for say top spin. I think these metrics are just confusing people as paddle feel across the whole seems to be the main criteria. Yes, spin ratio may be the exception to this. I dont want to act like I know what I'm talking about though. haha
What we could arguably really use is a metric for how quickly pickleball paddles lose their grit.
yeah, that would be nice. I'm sure it's possible but I don't have the tools for that one.
JUST WHAT WE DON'T NEED: ANOTHER PADDLE METRIC. Maybe we need to introduce the "metric" of time of day and moisture content in the air.. gmafb man.
This is just the start ha still lots to uncover out there. Launch angle is next ;)
@@pickleballeffect I don't think YT liked my linking to Tennis Warehouse in my previous reply, so I'll just say ... launch angle is another metric that's been in use for tennis and table tennis. One of the things I like about my DBD 16mm is its launch angle lines up nicely with my grip and natural swing mechanics to produce topspin drives with safe clearance over the net.