Does a JRPG's "Replay Value" Still Matter?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- By "Replay Value" I mean stuff you can only access on subsequent play-thoughs, alternate endings, alternate routes. Replay value used to be a huge selling point for RPGs back in the 90s when RPGs felt sparse and we only had a few RPGs we could play. But today we're spoiled for choice, and locking content behind subsequent play-throughs hardly seems worth it anymore. At least to me, but I could be alone on this, so let's talk about it!
SuperDerek's Backlog Retirement fund: / superderek 
Игры
I say no. There's way more jrpgs than any of us can keep up with. Only our all time favorites are ever going to get a replay.
My backlog is SO big. I really only occasionally replay games and only really if there's a remaster or remake. E.g. recently replayed the Mass Effect Trilogy. But I am now well and truly done with those games. I'm always astonished at people being like "I replay it every year". Like... WHAT?
Doesn't have to be Mass Effect, but just generally all kinds of games. But it's the sinmilar for me with TV-shows, when people just rewatch the same series over and over. The closest to that I ever got is that Maybe I've watched the lord of the rings trilogy three times.
Especially with JRPGs. There are so many...
To be honest, I rarely replay rpgs anymore. I have such a massive backlog of games that I have a hard time justifying replaying 50+ hour games. When I do replay rpgs, it's usually been so long since I previously played it that I just want to re-experience the same story without really caring about additional content.
I also enjoye replying games after about 4-5 years because I start forgetting things that happen and it's like playing the game for the first time again and enjoying the ride
Same here. I find I tend to replay games for merits other than game designers _trying_ to create replay value. I find good experiences are worth replaying, regardless of whether they require subsequent play-throughs.
I'm the same way. It only takes like a year for me to forget a lot of it lol
ive been replaying smt iv apocalypse, and while i remember some story beats, i do feel that excitement as though im playing again for first time
To me, once I've finished an rpg once, no matter the ending, the only replay value IS what you call replayability. I replay some games because I love them, even if I know what to do almost by heart. In doing this, I am not necessarily looking to see anything new. Good if I do, but I primarily want to experience the game.
💯 It's very seldom the bonuses that entice me to try a game again.
@@SuperDerek ... but I'll always replay when Vivi and Steiner agree to help each other in the Evil Forest.
I say no as well. As a busy adult with a backlog, I generally don't have time for replays or even new game +.
Here are my two thoughts: (1) the best ending should never be locked behind an additional playthrough that players would otherwise deem optional, and (2) a customizable new game plus mode is such an easy way to cater to a variety of replays. For (1), this usually means the best ending should be achievable in a single play through since most of us only have time to play a game once (especially if we liked but didn't love the game), but some games are designed with multiple play throughs in mind, and all I'm saying is you shouldn't hide the best ending behind excessive tedium. For (2), people replay a game for a variety of reasons, like trying different builds, stomping through the game with an OP party, attempting higher difficulties/optional content, or collecting missed collectables/trophies from the first play though. So, let the people choose what they want to do on subsequent runs. I would love if rpgs were more forward about ng+ so I don't feel like I have to do ALL of the bloated side content in one go, I can play the way I want to on the first play through with the knowledge that my progression can be carried over into a second play through if I really like the game.
The backlog is massive but I'll still go back and play a lot of stuff. Ng+ adding new content really helps. Increasing lvl cap and skill cap is cool
Replayability when 300 new games come out every week on pc+switch+xbox+playstation? No one have the time to finish the backlog so replaying a 100 hours game filled with Fedex quest nope.
Fedex quest 😅
That depends on the game I still replay Dragon quest 7 every now and then despite IT being a 200+ HOURS long game one WITHOUT a NG+ mode.
I would say replaying RPGs would only go from 2 certain camps if the game has new game plus or if you haven't played the game in ages and you want to go back to play It again. Those are the only reasons why replayability should matter with a jrpg at least.
I definitely feel you on not having the time or need to replay games these days--especially not story-driven ones. But if I'm in the mood for a certain type of game and there is a game that simply executes better on the "assignment" than all the others in its genre, replaying it can win out over the novelty of trying a new-but-mediocre one. Case in point: I've replayed Fire Emblem Three Houses several times, whereas I couldn't stomach finishing Fire Emblem Engage even once. The same factors that militate against replaying the same game *also* militate against playing mediocre or sub-standard ones.
I'm right there with you dude. We've evolved past the need for replay value as a big concern since the amount of choices out there are seemingly infinite. Unless a 2nd run offers me something totally new (Like a NG+ Hard Mode with extra stuff) and I truly LOVED the game (FFVII Rebirth) I'm totally in camp one-and-done now. If anything, after I beat a NEW game I love and want to re-experience it, I will recommend it to a friend to chat about it with, or seek out a content creator playing it as well. It's a great way to see another perspective on a game you beat, without having to play through it a second time.
I feel that NG+ was, essentially, developed as a result of the cultural influence of the older "replay value", especially in games where you keep your levels, jobs, etc. being OP and destroying enemies easily who had given you such a hard time on the initial play through is a fantastic feeling. SMT V and BDII are great examples.
I have a set of games from the 90s that I replay periodically because of nostalgia, but I seldom play new games more than once.
If they ever finish the Québécois script, I'll replay Sea of Stars.
Replay ability means nothing to me these days. If you’re a grownup with kids, a full time job and a wife who can stand watching you relax for a bit, then replaying a game is not a real thing. Plus every game that I replay is because I want to (nostalgia perhaps) and not because of its replay value.
Props to all the supportive SO's out there that are cool with us doing our thing. This show wouldn't exist without people like that. :)
You should replay Radical Dreamers. The paths leading to the other endings can be so radically different from the main ending, it's almost like playing an entirely different game
Luckily RD is such a short game, that's actually feasible.
That's not really a game, it's a visual novel. VN's can contain gameplay, but most of them are are basically just choose-your-own-adventure type stories. The only ones I'd count as actual games is ones like Ace Attorney games where solving mysteries, exploration and using your head for puzzles or presenting evidence or asking questions at the right time matters.
@@thenonexistinghero I think it has more in common with text adventures than visual novels
Very enjoyable listening to you speak. You pretty much vocalized how I felt about rpgs for a while. I always tell myself I’ll revisit this & that but I always just end up playing the core games that take me back to simpler times.
Loved the video Derek. Ahh, the good old days. When I was a kid I would replay almost all of my games just because I loved them so much: Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, Lunar Silver Star Story. Now that I am older, have less time, and do have a backlog because of the number of games that are released, I haven’t replayed a game in quite some time. Thanks for the ramblings. It’s cool to hear someone express my same sentiments.
replay value is good as long as there is new story to be unlocked
oops, i mean new game + is good if there is new story to be unlocked
FF7 and dark cloud 2 are the only JRPGs I replay because I truly love them. And I replay them only once every few years to boot
I like the sentiment that if a game is great youll want to replay it over and over anyway. Theres no need to design a game with features to encourage it. Just make the game so good (fun to play, amazing story you want to experience again, characters you want to hear from again) that you cant help replay it a million times.
For me it doesn't matter, but for kids or people who love only very VERY few RPG series like if someone only plays DQ they only get 1 or 2 DQ games per generation, so maybe in this extreme instance it would matter to them that their favorite RPG will have high replay value with multiple endings & paths.
For me, replay value is important to some extent. Not necessarily to replay the game immediately after my first playthrough, but when I revisit the game again a couple years later. Multiple classes, skills, and endings definitely sweeten the experience when I come back to it. I don’t play many new games nowadays cause of my backlog, but man when you find something new that you passed by on your first playthrough, it’s such a treat.
"YOU HAVE LIKE A DOZEN GAMES OF BACKLOG!"
"I don't think I played this game right the first time, though."
this also brings up an interesting point. i know you and others mention things like preservation and being able to keep your games, yet many people now treat games as disposable (play it once and forget it).
I like owning my games because I intend to play them again and want the ability to do so.
I just find it rather ironic that people say they have no intention of replaying games but then why bother owning it at that point, why not just rent it and finish it and move on especially if you can save money in doing so.
That isn't really a new thing cause most people that play games casually don't really care much about keeping games forever
I hardly ever replay modern games, anymore. I return to classics a bunch because, as you say, nostaglia. I just finished replaying Pokemon Blue the other day. (And speaking of replay value, with different monsters.) Meanwhile, even going outside of JRPGs, we have Super Mario Odyssey, which is currently my favorite Mario game ever... and I've only played it the one time, when it launched. And also watched someone else play it.
I have a huge backlog. But I heard something very interesting in your video that made a lot of sense on why I keep playing the same games over and over again. It’s that they feel like going home again. There’s a comforting feeling in playing the favorites. I’m playing dq 11 for the 3rd time now and then the rest of the dragon quest games again.
Hey Derek, great video! Thanks a lot!
Outside of rpgs? Yes, action games benefit the most with replay value.
This is a topic that goes into my list of hills I would die on haha. I don't think pure story based RPGs ever needed replayability or replay value. As you said, in most games the amount of extra content you will see is at most an hour of extra content, usually cutscenes. In the past this might have been like "oh just something we can add for some extra fun for our players". But nowadays, it feels like a check on a checklist that they can put on a box or in a review. The proof of this being the fact that some game companies try to hide content behind it so they can boast a longer play time or some mechanic that should have been in the game from the start.
But I will go one step further and beyond!!! I believe replay value actually hurts some games and makes them much less memorable experiences because of it. If you think of a Story based RPG like a book, branching routes, dating options, dialogue choices or multiple endings can destroy a narrative/character depth. Most companies are way out of their league trying to even make interesting characters and a story. But add in the things above while trying to combine them all into one cohesive narrative, no way not going to happen in most cases, not unless you want to be working on that game forever. So what they do is usually separate the characters, world, and story unless said things are directly involved in that choice.
Examples
Branching/routes paths-This is probably the best replayability feature but what it usually does is create crappy stories and the good story which is sometimes called the true ending. So it can just feel like a waste of time or make the game look bad if you don't do the true/good ending.
Dating options- This is a fan favorite, but what it does is make the characters too dependent on the main character. Thus, the characters don't often interact with each other or even acknowledge any choices made during non choice sections. Plus, the characters you don't choose lose out on much-needed depth to make them interesting. With the cherry on top of the choices will never be involved in the main story except maybe if you're lucky "they lived happily ever after in the ending".
Dialogue choices-Very similar to dating options, but this when those choices are meant for the overall story. It is extremely difficult to make these choices really matter, the more of them you have, and in a lot of cases there was no point in putting them in at all. These work best in main character focused games, typically seen in western rpgs. But the problem is the main character is usually just a slave to the game and is just a vessel for the choices since you made that character.
Multiple Endings-Much like routes this can have the same problem with good, bad and true endings. But in non routes games you are mostly just playing the exact same game that may take anywhere from 30-100 hours for if you're lucky like I said above an hour of different cutscenes. To me it's insanity, and only really worthwhile if you enjoy the gameplay not the story in the first place, lol. Which kind of defeats the point of needing that ending to begin with! Just add more gameplay or make a sequel instead with that extra time!
My final note is I think replayability is extremely important to non RPG genres and should stay with them instead to make them feel like you got your moneys worth. As an RPG player, I just want to play the game and feel the sense of accomplishment when I finish it, so I can move on to the next game. Like was said in the video, I just don't have the time or patience anymore to feel like I am missing out on something if I don't play the same dang game two to who knows how many times to feel like I completed it! If 90% of your player base either doesn't care enough or is looking online to see the other options, was there really any point?
Dude this ties into my review of Cold Steel IV so much. Sometimes, player choice, (which creates branching paths) can absolutely get in the way of letting the developers tell a compelling story. Especially if there's one "true" route that gets all of the attention during development, you're just opening players up to accidentally getting the "worse" experience by choosing the non-true route that only got a quarter of the development time and attention.
@@SuperDerek Yep I am with you on that 100%. I also thought the same thing about Cold Steel IV! I also think of Breath of Fire 1 and 2 where if you didn't do certain things you just got a bad ending. But unlike Cold Steel IV there were no real hints or indications about it. So you could just get the bad ending and think that was the ending lol. Also while I thought it was a lot cooler when I found out about the real ending but Castlevaina Symphony of the Night has a bad ending if you don't explore everything and if you miss it you only get to play half the entire game lol. As a kid, when I rented this game and rushed through it to get to the end. I was just disappointed when I got to the ending and thought "wow this game was so short and feels really anticlimactic, where the heck is dracula?" haha.
@@SuperDerek one of the reasons i prefer jrpgs over wrpgs is the fact that theyre generally linear and DONT have branching paths. I like the player choice to be in regards to things like how i build my team and characters, not so much branching timelines that can become a pain to keep track of.
I say yes, because it's still intrinsic to RPGs. Even when RPGs don't have different endings, they have different paths and different builds, different party compositions, etc... an RPG that has no choice somewhere be it optional content, side content, different paths, different builds, etc...what have you isn't an RPG. That goes for western and jrpgs. Choice is fundamental to any RPG, it's part of what makes the genre.
No it's not. RPGs just mean games who's mechanics come from D&D. Original D&D wasn't about long drawn out self insert storylines, it was about meat grinder dungeons. They were named role playing games because you play 1 character instead of an entire army like in the tabletop war games that preceded them.
@JarlBarbossa and in those long, drawn out meatgrinder dungeon crawl you still had choice, in your character class, your skills, the personality of the character you were playing. Even old school original D&D you had choices of force the lock or have a thief pick it, whether or not to try to negotiate with certain NPCs, how to solve certain combat enounters, etc...
@@badlatency9979 you're grasping at straws. Only final fantasy 13 plays itself.
This is the best comment I've seen. Choice is the root of the genre. And the best rpgs have meaningful choices with consequences. Even if I only play the game once, I want it to be MY playthrough.
Been playing them for decades & never once asked myself about their replay value. The good ones I will replay again & again when I’m in the mood.
From someone of that generation, I can tell you what gave a RPG "replay value," it's how much of the post-game world was enough to continue exploring and adventuring in... how engaging that worldbuilding was once you'd done all of the main stuff and having side quest stuff *harder than the main quest,* and the ability to re-enter that post-credits world ready to take it on. When you look back at the Golden Quad of SMRPG, Chrono Trigger, FF VI, and Earthbound, they all succeeded at this.
Two things really set JRPGs distinctly behind where replay value goes. One is that, just like fighting games; the core gameplay relies entirely on it's combat system and mechanics thereof. It's a hard thing to iterate on, but you see older games do this well. Like when you can upgrade "Attack" to "X-Attack." Evidently you can't do this indefinitely, and once you've "solved" how to beat a boss, then repeating that isn't any more difficult without some direct input execution involved. The other concern is narrative, and that the appeal of the JRPG lies very heavily on it's lore and storytelling, and you can't learn anything for the first time twice. Once you've hit the second-act-to-third-act plot twist, you'll never again NOT see it coming; and that is arguably the single biggest variable from title to title, and there's now a million titles that have explored a few thousand of these plot twists. In fact, from a pure narrative standpoint, this is effectively your endgame point, because everything else is just a trip from that back to status quo/showdown with would-be ManGod.
The JRPGs with the best replay/revisit value are the ones that have persistent gameworlds that continue to renew and ante up gameplay content, like Pokemon Gold/Silver or OmegaRuby/AlphaSapphire. This is why you see so many JRPG fans migrate to games like Stardew Valley, Animal Crossing, etc.
I've almost never replayed a JRPG, JRPGs are so massive that I would never want to replay them again unless I wanted to re-experience the story. There are so many games... I would never consider replaying anything but my favourites.
We might be on a similar wavelength. It’s something I have thinking and talking about with friends for a few years. It’s weird I can replay any games from the nes to the ps2 era of games and feel genuine happy and not burnt out maybe its nostalgia and how well crafted the games are. But I don’t replay many games from the hd era. With hd era game it’s like one and done, play it, beat the game then move on to the next game. Its so weird and i don’t think its time management or backlog maybe it’s how modern games are made now where replayability is probably left out of a games development. But I don’t have answers for it though maybe one day some of these developers can come forward on why there is a lack of replayability in there games
It may also be that nostalgia has a lot of power to make the heart grow fonder. Maybe. :)
I’m fine if games have replay value, but it doesn’t mean I have to play said games more than once. I don’t see myself replaying many games outside of going for trophies or achievements. I haven’t played many jrpgs and all the alternate story paths don’t sound too appealing to get myself.
I think it's important still, just as a good book will make you revisit it, so too will a good jrpg.
Totally agree with your thoughts here. I think you could expand on what you said about developers not including multiple replay features to just make games, especially RPGs, shorter time investments in general.
Replay value doesn't matter to me much anymore but it probably still does to the younger people with alot of free time
No way.. if the story is a masterpiece, I will remember it for years fondly, so no need to play them all the time. Maybe every year or two
Don't get me wrong, I replay games ALL the time if they're fun and have good stories, like re-reading a book. I'm mainly talking about the features developers try to put in games to give them more replay _value_ to entice players into subsequent runs. I hope helps clarify what I mean. :)
Great video topic and I totally agree with you dude. I really liked your distinction between replay value and replayability. Nostalgia plays a big factor for sure, but I also think some games are just designed in a way, whether intentional or not, that just makes it easier for repeat playthroughs. Like Suikoden for example doesn’t really have any replay value as you can do everything there is to do in the game on your first playthrough, but at the same time it’s still highly replayable since it’s short, battles move real quickly and it’s easy to 100%.
I’m also with you on not liking games that require multiple playthroughs to get the full story. It’s cool in theory I guess, but I just don’t have the time or desire really to wanna replay the same game again right after beating it. They really almost have to change the entire game to make that feel worth it. To use another example I didn’t like how Nier Automata required multiple playthroughs to fully understand the story. Like yeah they do change some stuff each playthrough and it’s creative how you gradually learn more about everything but at the end of the day you’re still just repeating a lot of the same sections even if your character and move set may be different
But yeah nice vid! It definitely got me thinking how I felt about the topic as well
Thanks, Bro! 😁
Almost everybody got a backlog. I replayed stellar blade and got really bored.
i dont, i play only jrpgs who are turnbased dont play in a school setting .......so there are not many games that hit that criteria
I replayed DQ11 recently and emmensly enjoyed it.. again. First time around was the initial release on PS4, next time was definitive edition on ps5 (60fps, added music etc) I loved it more the second time. I think that is the first time I've replayed a modern RPG.
I'm of two minds I guess. I like replaying some games simply because they were *good* and not really because there were slightly branching story paths. I HATE feeling forced to replay a game because the "good" ending was locked behind a requirement of making a thousand separate "correct" story choices over the course of an 80 hour game and the only way to keep track of them all is to carefully follow a detailed guide for the entire game.
For sure. I've replayed Earthbound Crono Trigger,, Super Mario Rpg, Dragon quest 8 and 11, and the first 2 paper marios countless times. I think it really shows a story and characters stayed with you. I yearly do Earthbound and DQ11. Still cry at parts of 11 too.
Meanwhile I love mother 3, but I can't bear to finish it again. I've tried 4 separate times to playthrough it again and still haven't, so even a great story can't be the only thing to get a replay.
Like I love ffx, but given the choice I'd play through x-2 first, the dresses were fun forms of combat, and seeing how broken dark knight could be lol
Id rather have a game with one ending. I have to many games to play already... So rather just have to play a game one time.
The worst is when you play a game with multiple endings, only to find out at the end you got the "bad" ending and have to pray you had a save file from before the path diverged...
@@SuperDerek Know that feeling aswell!
This is why i'm looking for content creator that re-tell RPG stories because i want to enjoy the stories again but do not want or do not have the time to play the game all over again. Although i give some exception for Chrono Trigger and FF6, i will play those two over and over again.
Even if it doesn’t have multiple endings JRPGs are replayable regardless since there’s side quests, long main story, and big cast of characters for a lot of them.
As someone with a ton of backlog, replayability is one of those things that I don't give a damn about in games. Who the heck looks for replayability in JRPGs? These are the "meatiest" of the game genres.
My job is crazy each spring, and that's a time where I might have to go weeks without getting much gaming time, nor do I have the free brain cells to really take in a new game, so I tend to replay a few games each spring. Then in the summer and fall when things are lighter, I play new games. But I do feel the flood of new games we get now vs. the 2 or 3 rpgs we could play each year back in the 90s. I wish we got FF V back then as it seems designed for that era.
Before when i was still young and didn't have the money to buy games often, i replay almost all my games multiple times (yeah CT included).
Now though there are just too many games and too little time😩 And my hands/fingers aren't like before where i can play for 6hrs or more in one sitting😢
I think there is room for replayability when it is part of the game design. If the game is intentionally shorter for the sake of having meaningful choices and multiple endings then replay is something that can still matter and be worthwhile to implement. Examples: The Machine, Chrono Trigger, Radiata Stories, Neir Automata, Dragon Quarter. Love them or hate them, these games implement replays in unique and interesting ways.
I like your distinction between "Replay Value" and "Replayability."
Replay Value = motivation to repeat an entire run of a game (i.e. multiple endings)
Replayability = game design that keeps you coming back regardless of completing multiple entire runs (puzzle games and fighting games come to mind).
Like you and others in the comments have mentioned, the sheer quantity of games available nowadays and the average gamer's backlog have kinda taken away the need for devs to stress building in "replay value." I personally have enough content in my backlog to play for the rest of my entire life and probably still wouldn't finish them all.
As always, you present a very thought provoking topic in an interesting way. It does feel like we are in the decline of Replay Value being a necessary feature for RPGs. Great video Derek 👍
Thanks dude, I'm glad you enjoyed today's topic! :)
I'm still trying to break myself of my completionist tendencies. Whenever I feel like replaying a game I've already played, I have to constantly remind myself that I already have enough unplayed games to last me the rest of my life. I wonder if the next generation will even have the nostalgia we have for our games since they won't be replaying them like we did.
Dannnng you had a glow up! I used to watch you back in the day! Looking good!
Thanks! Been working hard on myself, glad it's paying off! :)
I think the beauty of Chrono Trigger is that it is perfectly balanced in regards to replay value, replayability, and respect for the player's time, which as mentioned becomes increasingly important as we get older and fettered with more obligations. Unlike most replayable games that expect you to go through the entire journey of the game in order to get a few different scenes as incentives, CT not only gives you NG+ advantages to make subsequent playthroughs easier, but it makes you play the most time-consuming playthrough FIRST to get it out of the way.
Additional playthroughs are then tailor made by the player in regards to length and subsequent time investment. Once you beat it the first time, you can legitimately check the game off your list as far as saying you've 'beaten' the game. It then becomes a matter of achievement hunting, digging in and getting *everything* the game's story has to offer.
The gaming industry has mastered New Game+ from Chrono Trigger. I think it would be a great boon for the industry, and especially RPGs if they somehow incorporated some of the other lessons in game design that this gem of a game has to offer!
EDIT: That relatable retirement comment got a solidarity chuckle out of me. Had to hit that Subscribe button!
I have been playing RPGs since 1999 when FF8 came out, it's my favorite genre. I honestly don't play as many as I used to but I have never replayed them with the exception of FF10 & that was with friends to get them through it. They take so much time as it is, which such a big backlog & I never imagined playing through them more than once.
JRPGs are a genre blessed with fantastic replay value. Most of the games have a new game plus, so many hidden collectables, multiple characters, different combos / systems/ item set ups, and so many custom challenges you can make yourself. I can't think of many RPGs I wouldn't go back and play at least one more time. I think the replay value is still there, and RPGs are worth it to replay even today and even with modern RPGs. You don't have to rush playing even a long game, if you are enjoying it simply take your time with it. I was working full time and spent 2 months fully playing final fantasy origins last year on my ps1, just take your time and enjoy it. If you don't like longer games that is another argument lol. I think people are always in a rush against time, but I find when you take your time and simply enjoy the game in each moment, the experience will be extremely fulfilling. Don't rush an RPG. I love seeing my characters get stronger and better with time just like I am in real life.
I see second play through content such a NG+ or alternate routes / endings as time capsule DLCs you get right now on your cart / disk but you'll get to play in 10 or 20 years, long after the developers have moved on, when you decide to pick up the game again and give it another play through. There is no way I was gonna replay immediately Xenoblade Chronicles 2 after already spending north of 150h playing through it the first time. Yet I am glad to know that when I decide to do another play through (which I know I will someday), I will have a whole new NG+ mode waiting for me and will have a blast playing with the blades that were once my enemy not to mention all the blades the gacha gods held back from me the first time.
For me personally at this point (and for context I’m roughly the same age as you), for a game to truly be “replayable” nowadays, it requires two things:
1. It has to be not only a great game, but a FUN game.
2. It has to be a reasonably short game.
A great game like FF9 just doesn’t warrant investing another 80 hours into for me. Even a game like FF5 that everyone says has so much “replay value” because of the job system, just was not that fun to me, so I’ll likely never play it again. Conversely, I can go back to FF4 with its linear story and single ending because it’s fairly short and it’s just fun to play (specifically the PSP version).
It’s worth noting that I replayed Dragon Warrior 1 recently. Classic game, super short, takes me back to my younger days, doesn’t require my full attention or effort.
This is one of those things that had me hung up on SMT V Vengeance a little while back. It's a LONG game, and the first 15 hours were pretty much identical. And that's not a small amount of time for most people anymore. The shorter a game is, the easier it is for me to mentally swallow the idea of sinking more time into it. :)
I think replay value is still important for a game you end up loving a lot. Going back having a new things to do can give a similar feeling to playing the game the first time
Replayability is meaningless to me. I rarely even finish the games I play, and when I do I feel like I'm done with them and move on to the next.
Good video topic!
I wouldn't say it's necessary for every RPG to have a very high replay value, but as someone else pointed out, RPGs are almost defined by providing player options.
I'm not a fan of locking content behind NG+ in most cases, but even without that type of incentive I think a well designed RPG should provide at least enough diversity to support two playthroughs if you enjoy the game, whether that be through build/party diversity, branching quest lines, or something else.
Personally, I'd rather get more shorter, creative RPGs with high replay value than bloated cinematic experiences where every player has the same basic playthrough.
I will say that in JRPGs, or RPGs in general, "Replay Value" is something to where you play again to relive/rewatch the game(like reading a book/watching a movie again because you loved the story and wanted to experience it again). Replayability in RPGs though seems more like a game to where after you finish the game you can "replay" it to see a different ending.
With how there is so many games out now, replayability is a bit hard to come by. Either the game was not good enough to see the other ending(which also means it also didn't have replay value), or playing it again to reach the other outcomes may take too much time with so many games out there. One thing that can fix the later is maybe make it to where replaying the game to reach the other endings would only add a few hours more to the gameplay(like 3-10 more).
As for if replay value(or what I consider replay value) still matter, I will say yes to a extent. There are a few games out there to where I do enjoy going back to relive the story. I don't think there are as many modern games that are like this as there were back in the 80-00s, but there are a couple. I would say the Ys games and 13 Sentinels are some that I can see being something I would play again because I found their stories to be engaging. The backlog problem though can be a issue... but I have been working on that, as I have cleared out maybe 30 so far for this year alone.
Great topic and something I hadn't really thought of. But yeah, I don't have the time to replay games when there are dozens more waiting to be played.
Replay value can only end when finesh every side quest and beat every super boss and you decide to play it again in maybe in a different approach. Thats why i love Elden Ring, that games replay value just never ends. You can play it non stop and not get bord with different playthroughs
I'm 52, and to finish all the RPG's I currently have (PC, Switch) would take me more years than I could ever hope to live. I'm not concerned about the replay value of RPG games. For some other genres it's a different story, however.
im in my 40s, and been playing jrpgs since snes era. i used to buy almost every game, beat it and replay my fav games over and over. now its impossible. i dont buy all the games i want to anymore, just to be able to replay my favorites still
Honestly, locking stuff behind multiple playthroughs annoys me. Always has but especially now when I have less time and such a backlog.
Replay value always has and always will be important. I'd argue more so now as the release between games is getting longer and longer. So developers SHOULD prioritize replayability and no we aren't seeing the death of replay value. Just because your tastes have changed does not mean you represent authority on the matter.
Yes it does not everyone can buy every game that comes out or is interested in each game that comes out
You can emulate more RPGs than can be played in a lifetime
Plus there are tons of indies worth a play through that are cheap as chips on Steam, used games for PS4 and PS3 are also relatively inexpensive.
@@SuperDerek I already do both but not everyone can afford a PC or can figure out emulators plus I prefer physical Media but I should add they could buy one if they skipped a console generation the upfront cost the subscription cost to play online the cost for controllers due to stick drift when on PC there s many ways to fix that over 5 -7 years comes around to 4k ish $ and that is without gamers
@@Kozmo-Kamuy You don't need to spend anything close to that amount. You don't need to play the latest games. And emulators for ps1 and older are so simple, all you have to do is use Google. They're pretty much plug and play. Only N64, Saturn, and PS2 need you to fiddle with settings.
@@Kozmo-Kamuy agree. I have the same experience as the video is talking about but I think there will always be kids who can’t pop out another $60 when they finish a game, and the replayability is for them. Even though emulation is a thing kids aren’t usually in a position to set that up
It still matters to me! Though due to length I rarely replay RPGs, but it does happen. Moreso if there are multiple endings or class change options or something. 😎
I lean towards no, but it entirely depends on the game. Usually the longer ones do not need replayability since you get your value's worth out of just one playthrough, but if they are short (I'd say 25 hours or less is short for a RPG) then it might be good to give the game some more elements of player customization, a degree of randomization or multiple routes where possible.
"Retirement"...
We old fans of RPGs are already laughing by this point. 😆
I never play a second playthrough to unlock things. I used to replay a lot more when JRPGs were 30 hours long and you wanted more after finishing the game. New games are longer.
I’m not concerned about replay value but I do care about post-game content or some way to CONTINUE playing beyond the credits if I really like a game
Great topic! Depends on what stage in life you are in and your finances. In my situation, I can care less about replay value due to my backlog. In my mind, any game I beat I doubt I will go back and play again because I have so many games that are waiting to have that seal broken.
You may be right. Buying a new game every few months is typically more than enough to hold me over, and my backlog of "gotta have its" and "wanna play its" is expanding weekly. But I can't even finish games every few months, at my current rate.
@@SuperDerek Agreed. I have games in series that I have not even started. But I keep purchasing in fear that the game will go out of print or very expensive.
This dropped as I took a break from a new game plus run through of Persona 5 Royal. This is the first video I saw. I'm replying P5R, which I played after P5 vanilla. So yes.... replayability matters. I don't want to replay dozens of games, but for those I love? Yeah. Replayability is what I want. I don't play tons of different games and don't want to. Not a lot is there that I want to play, but for those games I DO want to play and that I love, give me replay value. I think a big question is whether you want to keep up with what's coming out every few months, or do you want a few gems and pick up new classics a while after they reveal themselves to be such. If you're in the latter camp, replay value is important. Consumption habits make a huge difference.
Meanwhile Yoko Taro makes those large games that you have to beat several times in order to get the different endings to understand the convoluted plot.
You arent really replaying much though. Youre playing a new game from a different point of view. At least in Nier Automata Ending B. Ending C and D and E you arent even replaying anything. Its all new.
Replay value to me is most attached to nostalgia factors! Almost impossible for me to replay a game nowadays or at least i struggle with time management to do so. But some old games i alwyas find the time to replay them. Classics like FFIX, Chrono, Ocarina of time
About multiple endings i tend to ignore and just check on ytb what im mising and after finishing the game i jump back to the endless backlog
Too many games, and games are way too long now. So I get annoyed when I have to play a game more than once to see everything.
I still enjoy replaying some games but those are usually short.
I'm 53 and my health isn't optimal. When I recently started Persona 5 Royal for the first time, I looked up a guide on how to complete the maximum number of companion storylines in one playthrough, because there's no way I'm ever going to play it twice. This has a negative effect on my spontaneity as a player and risks spoiling things in advance. For that reason, I'm not that fond of the choice by makers of long games to seal off significant content behind the need for a second complete playthrough.
I wish RPGs would bring their average time down to 40hrs. I still replay games I love. Not always start to finish, but I’ll start play it for a few days and drop it. Or load a save further into the game. If it’s a game i replayed I don’t need to experience it start to finish. I just want to be in that world for a few hours before putting it back on the shelf. Games I don’t plan to replay I sell after a generation or 2 when I can get the most money back for it
I don't know if I ever cared. I played a game when I wanted to... Which was sometimes not long after I beat it with my mom asking of I am bored of it yet, or little sis suggesting that I used different characters this time! I do gravitate towards favorites for replays though!
For example I only played through Undertale once. I do enjoy the game, I would just rather play other games is all! However, I played four rounds of Athenian Rhapsody in a two week span! This was because I was determined to reach the True Ending which took 3 tries... And did the final run in Lullaby.
I actually have a question that may not make a great discussion but I do think it could lead to some interesting stories! When playing an RPG, have you ever done something you didn't intend which eventually led to a victory? I'm not sure if this is the best wording, so let me bring up my own tale that happened recently.
The game, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
My Accident: Get to floor 100 in the Pit of 100 Trials before Chapter 4.
How this happened was just a mere curiosity. How far can I go? Can I reach level 90? I was planning on waiting until the post game to go to 100. And before then, had accidentally gotten to floor 40 before chapter 2, so I decided to push myself. There was just one problem.... I lost count.
After one playful, "I am going to regret this" while going down the pipe too many... To my horror, I was on the final floor. Mario's HP was 7, Yoshi's was at 10, Goombella, Koops and Flurrie had the full HP for one upgeade... And I found myself against Bonetail! Not wanting to lose what I gained, I kept hitting Retry.
My Strategy: Use Flurrie's Lip Lock to heal at least 4 HP. Give her my two Power drinks to buff her up with the occasional Charge. FP was low so Mario could either only do a weak 2 HP Hammer attack or use Sweet Treat for healing. If I am lucky, Mario can do a piercing hammer strike for 4 damage instead of 2.
Then with a little over 50 HP left on Bonetail... Flurrie gets knocked out. Trying to keep cool, I bring out the others. I tattle with Goombella, do a charged Multibonk, forced to switch to Yoshi for a charged Ground Pound, switch to Koops, use Courage Shell once then did a charged Power Shell... Then Mario was alone. No more healing items and Sweet Treat didn't help the others as much then.
Near the end, a lucky bingo which restored my HP ensured that I could last a few more rounds. So with math in my head, I plan... I make sure that Bonetaio is down to about 5 HP... Then I see I have enough for Earth Tremor. I'm trembling, my heart is pounding, but I say to myself through gritted teeth "As long as I don't mess up, I win." Keeping my thumb steady, I do a perfect Earth Tremor.
Heart still pounding, hands still shaking, I pick up my Return Postage badge, take the pipe back up, heal and slowly walk to the save block to save my progress.
I lost many times before the winning run... It took four hours! I did this in the remake so I have so much coins now! After that though, I exited the game, went back into my save file to confirm what I did was real and not a dream... Before slowly putting down my Switch Lite.
So um... Yeah, I think I will be overleveled for a while!
So I think replayability is important, playing a game once just doesn't make sense to me, why should a developer waste so much time on art, and music if the player is going to play it once, then let it collect dust for eternity?
To this day I have never gotten every ending in StarOcean: The second story.
It's not about a backlog, it's basically what I feel like, I have such a huge backlog (4000+ games) so at this point backlog really doesn't mean anything, if a game really jives with me, I'll play it. The games age doesn't matter to me anymore, I'll play a brand new game, then go play a Commodore 64 game.
This is a tough question for me. It's got many variables to it. What it comes down to for me is my enjoyment. I am also working my way through the Trails series and have no qualms playing the game multiple times for the enjoyment of the story. on the other hand I just started Ys with Ys 1 and decided I was going to save scum and play on nightmare so that I only had to play once, not because I wasn't enjoying it but because I felt like it was enough. (Curse you Dark Fact!)
Fortunately my work life is fairly flexible, and although I work 7 days a week, the time I work each day isn't absurd. So I have time to fit in a couple hours of gaming everyday, so my perspective may be slightly skewed. Gaming doesn't interfere with my work or with my time with my wife so I base my replay value on enjoyment alone.
If an RPG is good enough, it will automatically have replay value! 🤷♂ I'm replaying Suikoden 2 for the 6th time.
Replay value helps if it is a shorter game. The last time I replayed a newer RPG was Ys Origins. If it wasn’t so short I would have just watched the different cutscenes on RUclips.
I just want people to remember that multiple 'paths' or 'missed content' can still have value, even when you only play once. I love rpgs because they give you a very personal experience, and often create a reactive world where your choices have meaningful consequences. Even with japanese games, but especially with western rpgs. I want to walk away feeling like that was MY journey. The decisions (gameplay or narrative) have no weight when you can just do everything with one perfect hero.
The real problem was the culture of "completionism" convincing normal players they needed to see everything and get the "true" ending. That's for the rare extreme ocd players. The extra content doesn't need to be designed with a "true" path. And you don't need to do everything to "get your money's worth" because NOT doing something can still create an interesting outcome.
I’ve only replayed Pokémon games, Xenoblade games, and went for all the endings in undertale. Also played ff7 multiple times. But I like finding new stuff to play
When people talk about their positive feelings towards their formative JRPG experiences a lot of it, I find, is connected to that feeling we get through exploration of the 'hang-out-itude' that those games offered...and that finding little secrets in a playthrough or multiple playthroughs rewarded your immersion.
But as you said this was a benefit back in the day when these games were not so plentiful and nowadays with both new games coming out AND the ever growing interest of checking into the historical games of the genre...it is often a burden to get recommended a single playthrough 60+ or even 100+ hour game. It especially turns me off nowadays to know that key storytelling elements that would serve to enhance the overall experience are hidden behind multiple playthroughs or obscure diverging paths or, god forbid, DLC. It's cool if those aspects are used to enhance a character or a part of the world or offer some stellar equipment or abilities...but too often imo they are being used by the creators to fix the story of the main game which was told poorly or at least uninterestingly to begin with.
To that end, I'd like to see great compelling story telling in the course of a single playthrough in a base game be the standard again more often. And THEN if I feel that compelled by that world I can make the choice to replay and hang out in that world more.
Great video and gave me a lot to chew on as well, cheers.
Thanks for the thoughtful response! Hang-our-itude is such a fun concept. I definitely remember finding places to "hang out" in games back in the day. Cozy places that just felt good to be. :)
Yep, almost never gonna replay an 80 hour game now as an almost 40 year old. Now with Game Pass, disposable income, live services, there's very little reason to replay stuff.
For any media, I think it's important to occasionally dig deeper and fully experience and analyze high quality pieces. In the past, it was the adults who had the patience and wisdom to spend extra time on one idea, instead of bouncing off to the next shiny thing.
Of course, most video games don't deserve that much attention, but even busy adults can benefit from revisiting a game multiple times if it has depth and layers. It's a good exercise, and often rewarding in a different way.
I still have three routes to play on Three Houses and two more on Ys Origins. But here I am replaying Final Fantasy VI again instead. I have Blossom Tales II, SMT V (still haven't played it once yet let alone Vengeance) and Trails Through Daybreak and at least 55 other games just on Switch to play too. But nope, FFVI PR.
Oh and I have The Legend of Nayuta: Boundless Trails, Front Mission 2R and Empire of Angels IV in the mail from Playasia too. They just shipped out yesterday.
I have the DLC for Pokemon Scarlet/Violet to play.
Meanwhile I want another run of Devil Survivor 2: Record Breaker on the 3DS too. I played it once and started the post game route but then stopped for some reason.
So many games...
Ys X.
Pokemon Legends Z.
Suikoden I and II.
Trails Through Daybreak 2.
Dragon Warrior III.
Dragon Warrior I and II.
Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom.
Goblin Slayer.
Fairy Tail 2.
One Piece.
Tokyo Xanadu.
Front Mission 3R.
Trails in the Sky!!!
Just so many games...
I love it though!
It's a great problem to have! Part of me feels bitter sweet about it, but the reasons I'm less inclined to replay games these days is because we have SO MANY awesome options to choose from!
@@SuperDerek It really is a great problem to have. I remember those days of not getting many RPGs at all let alone good ones. Yet here we are with more RPGs I named for just the Switch than most systems even had in total.
The value of replay value has definitely diminished with the saturation of available games. But to me, a sign of a great game, a game I’ll cherish for years to come, is that when I get to the 3/4 mark I’m already thinking about wanting to replay it. The difference now is that I won’t replay it, not right away at least. Letting a game stew for awhile before I come back to it helps a lot. Replay features are nice, but I believe games should still be designed around that first time vanilla experience. That’s the one your memories are tied to, that’s the one I want to relive.
Replay Value for me is only possible when with each playthrough the story changes (Nier Automata) but not like "here are n endings" like some games (Chrono Trigger the only exception because of the time travel), a new difficult mode unlock after finishing the 1st playthrough (FF7 Remake) or the game is short enough to justify n necessary playthroughs.
Now for me a game is replayable because the story is so great that I do not mind experience it again (I put the sidequest here too)... nostalgia basically, the gameplay is so satisfying or even the music (while fightinig, walking and arriving to a new area)
The thing is, it depends highly on the game and the person. Recently I got Sekiro on the last Steam sale and haven't been able to stop replaying the game; I love to get different endings and try different approaches; but I also simply like to rush through the game. Being able to go through a lengthy and difficult game in few hours is quite satisfying to me.
It also depends on how you value replayability, if it's just to get more time out of a game, and you equate that time with value, then yeah... nowadays you have 100hr games coming out with a ton of content -most of which ends up being bloat, but still-, yet I can't help but to feel like replaying a title is a good way to approach it from a different perspective or appreciate it from a different point of view. Maybe what happened was that the commenter in the last video was negative in his approach and that sour you on anything they had to say?
On a good RPG I'll spend about 60 hours or more on it. Especially for a longer RPG I don't really feel the need to replay them all that much once I've seen credits roll.
For coldsteel 1-4, I always just downloaded someone else's save and jumped into new game plus and turned off everything carrying over except bonding points.
Also recommended for cs2 because there's a canon scene in cs2 that can only be sceen in new game + and is referenced early on in cs3
That seems like the way to go. Any idea if it's necessary for Reverie or Daybreak? I'm looking at resuming my Trails through the Series...
@@SuperDerek I don't believe so for reverie. 100% for daybreak there are some things that can't be done with 1 playthru.
That said, bonding events become a chore at the beginning of each chapter in cold steel since the first playthru isn't meant to see them all, so once you start new chapters if you pursue all the bonding events you're gonna spend a few hours doing them all before you get back to the story/next dungeon etc. Feels like a task at times
@@SuperDerek Also super important. Idk if you can do someone else's save on steam. I want with the non DRM GOG version of the cold steel franchise. so that may be something to look into before buying them all on steam idk if taking someone else's save works there
I want to replay a game because I want to, and not because replaying it is built into the gameplay model
For me the only time where it's meaningful to replay a game is something like in visual novels which have different routes and endings depending on your choices. In such games you can skip all of the already read text and then get straight to the new comprehensive content in each different route. Each route feels like a new game in some cases and many games make it so the different routes add a lot of insight and context and even appreciation for the other routes. This makes it so playing the other routes have meaning even if you liked one more than another since it increases your overall understand of the plot or characters even more. A jrpg or even some rpgs are usually too long for me to justify replaying again, the value proposition is just not there like you said to warrant a 40-70h secondary playthrough. I also feel that sometimes replaying a game with only minor or slight additions to its story as your replay it can start showing flaws. It can also lessen your satisfaction of the game overall because you are going to replace some of your memories of your first brand new experience of the game with more dulled out versions of them.