The quiet after we beat consort Radahn and how nothing really happens and it all ends at this divine gate at the top of this tower made me wonder if what I did was the right thing or if it was just marika using me as one of her champions to stop Miquella from dethroning her as queen of all everything
Marika at that point of a story is a dead husk with a single wish for you: destroy the Golden Order. This was her initial plan when sending Tarnished into excile.
The same thing happens at the end of the Dark Souls 3 DLC... when you defeat Gael at the end of time where everything has turned to a desert of grey ash... he just dies and that's it. There's no little ending visual at all. He dies and you stand at the very end of all existence, finally holding the "Dark Soul" but it really means nothing. Sure, you've gained everything... but it's worth nothing in the end. It's hauntingly beautiful, but also worthless.
I suspect that the St Trina which Miquella abandoned was his love for himself (something akin to his ego, self regard, or self obsession) and not his love and compassion for all things generally. Notice how none of St Trina's dialogue suggested that Miquella's plans would in any way be bad for the rest of the world, only for Miquella? For what is apparently the embodiment of love and compassion, St Trina completely ignores everyone BUT Miquella and anyone that she believed could "help save" him. She doesn't even bother acknowledging poor Thiollier's existence, and he's sitting right next to her. St Trina hates the idea of Miquella sacrificing himself and his freedom, even if it's for the good of the entire Lands Between. Additional thought: When Miquella manages to charm you in his fight, why does your health-bar get drained away, forcing you to respawn? It's almost as if your "health" and your life is something that can be taken away at a whim and that your respawns are controlled by another force.
Also to note; Compassion and love are not the same emotion. There are some links, but you can feel compassion for someone you hold no love for at all - or even someone you hate, or that hates you.
Miquella's story has several layers of irony and tragedy the more you read deeply into it. He is probably the most "admirable" character in the story in the nietzsche sense, expressing a coming of age "übermensch" story, where even marika wasn't technically an actual god (the elden beast is the true "god" and marika was just the vessel that had some privileges and became considered "god" by proxy), miquella was the only character in the game to actually grow to become a "god" through his own craftiness and sacrifices, but in the end, miquella lost for a simple reason, there's bigger fish out there controlling the lands between and imposing their order on these lands other than him. Miquella himself reached the status of "god" because we see radahn summoning him from the gates of divinity, with radahn being the "lord" and mohg being the "vessel" (the secret rite formula made a lord and vessel become necessary "magnets" that attract divinity through spiral invocation), we see that miquella, having sacrificed his flesh and all of his mortal flaws, weaknesses and corporeal burdens, became a tempered soul that the gate of divinity evolved into a "god" and pulled him back and attached him to his "lord" and "vessel", whereas marika was completely different, in her case, she was the "vessel" and her own second half radagon was the "lord", which is why we see her summon something in the trailer (she didn't step out of the gate of divinity like miquella did), that something being the summoned "god" which is the elden beast, falling to the lands between in a star. Marika is considered a god because she is the physical vessel of radagon, who is the lord of the elden ring, except marika, vessel that she is, seemed to be the dominant personality due to her special biology, with radagon being her loyal second half who had less agency but a deep desire to keep her alive at all costs (i assume he attacked the tarnished and sealed the erdtree fearing the tarnished might choose the chaos or ranni endings where marika dies). Marika, despite just being the vessel, exploited a loophole giving her the most agency in the trio, with radagon just being her loyal half and the elden beast just being ok with any "order" that the lord and vessel configure into it, this suggests that the greater will is the true "god" of the lands between, with the "god" elden beast being just a lowly vassal in comparison. The greater will chose our tarnished to become a proper elden lord because radagon was broken alongside marika, and all the other empyreans had their own agendas, refusing to become "vessels" that replaced the fractured marika, and the rest of the demigods being either dead, half dead, half snakes, scarlet rot zombies, or being cursed omen didn't help either with replacing the fractured radagon (godwyn was killed because he was obviously going to be the next eldenlord in a heartbeat, rendering the easily influenced tarnished still graceless). The tarnished were literally the lucky ones who benefited most from the sad state of affairs in the lands between, because all the more suitable options were broken, meaning that our conflict with miquella was, like leda put it, pre scripted by the erdtree. The greater will is the main "antagonist" of the narrative, representing how "gods" and "outer gods" in the setting are simply beings that demand faith from their subjects regardless of what happens to their subjects, simply throwing them a bone in the benefits of a specific order that might inspire said blind faith that gives these "gods" meaning in their eternal lifes. In short, miquella simply lost because he tried to compete with the greater will, which represented the conncept and evils of "godhood" to a greater extent in the narrative than miquella, who was only "god" for less than a minute before being thrown into a fight with a hardened tarnished who ate mesmer and malenia and the elden beast for breakfast, a tarnished who the greater will supported with a guidance of grace so potent that it lets them endlessly revive from even maliketh's blade of destined death and the black knives, and the positioning of the site of grace right outside the gates of divinity also shows how the greater will directly deals with lesser "gods" challenging its order. Miquella also lost for another possible reason, because his plan required the killing of radahn in caelid, the stars resumed their movement, which allowed the fate of ranni's age of the stars to begin moving again, destined to eventually replace marika's golden order, this made both the stars' fate and the greater will's grace unite in competing with miquella's newfound "god" status, which was apparently also destined by the stars and cursed by grace to be "nascent" and immature, meaning that miquella was cursed from the start to never make his plans "mature" into fruition, including his attempt of bringing back godwin's soul in castle sol and trying to cure malenia from her scarlet rot. In the end, we see miquella simply accept the abrupt end of his age by embracing radahn before fading away into oblivion, with the circlet of light simply symbolizing his desire to embrace the rest of the lands between similarly to how he embraced radahn in his final moments. It turned out that, while he "grew" to become a "god", he didn't grow out of his childish fantasy when he envisioned his order of kindness. He made the decision to sacrifice his love, which is expressed by the narrative as a sign of immaturity during his interpretation of exactly what type of "god" he wanted to become, i assume a sign of that immaturity is also in how he didn't choose to just run away from the battle with the tarnished, which he could've easily done metyr style by using radahn's comet gravity powers, i think that is because he removed his own doubts, which is probably another sign of his immature fantasy of being on radahn's side through endless easily avoidable battles. I assume if miquella had reached his full potential, he would've grown to become another "outer god", spreading his influence in the form of charm incantations to other planets, but his curse of youth probably prevented that from ever happening.
The line "His Eminence, or the Erdtree, must have sent you all along." Gets me so bad. Even the first time I heard it, it felt so important. Leda didn't say MARIKA or HER Eminence, she said HIS. For a while, I really thought she meant Miquella as "his eminence," must have meant for you to show up and cross blades to prove his right for the crown, against you, the other contender. But she mentions Miquella also separately after this sentence, and with it being literally attached to "OR the Erdtree" makes me think she's actually referring to RADAGON. Now I guess she could be referring to both Miquella and the Erdtree separately in that sentence, but that doesn't make sense for her to say that they both sent you to here? It makes way more sense if Radagon was the one who wanted us to become lord and continue his precious order, than Marika, who really I feel like just wants it to end. It makes the DLC so much more intriguing if Radagon was the one to send us to defeat his son, two once on the same side and making spells together, now bitter foes. One trying to redo and correct his mother's mistakes and accept her for the whole of her and one who only wants his partner to be a certain thing and uphold a certain ideal for him. I just feel like there's so much more hidden Radagon in like, the whole of the game 😂
GRRM has the same plot line with Bran in ASOIAF. he uses his powers and doesn’t understand the consequences it’s having on Hodor. this helps explain Miquella and his naivety. i’m glad you finally said it. it’s in the foreshadowing and people don’t see it
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"; if one is to slay the beast, one must take the utmost care not to become the beast itself. There is a reason why hero's are so tragic, and why their adversaries even more so.
@androidtalking nah, just posing a question someone like you wouldn't bother asking seeing as you can't tell the difference between a good narrative arc and a d-list marvel film.
The God we fight atop Enir Ilim... is not Miquella, it is Marika (sort of) The community assumes Miquella has discarded every part of himself because "the roots are rotted". But that entire idea comes courtesy of perhaps the least reliable character in the game Ymir. He has his own cunning intentions, and is pretty clearly insane. In the base game, one of the few things we learn about Miquella is that his prime will be short lived. He will die almost as soon as he reaches his potential. He is a Water Lily. I think it is very fair to assume Miquella knew this. So why on earth would his final goal be to become a God of "compassion" when he knows any potential will immediately be met with his demise? Look what we find atop the tower. A god with white gold, braided hair. He has not discarded his "rotted roots" he has discarded everything BUT his rotted roots. He has discarded everything, except the part of himself that is Marika. Why? Because he knows he will die, and Marika, the idea, will die along side him. As he has become Marika at this point. Miquella's story is undoubtably tragic. But it is not what most think it is. Miquella wanted to be the saviour, but because of his fate, because of his very blood, he is doomed to die. Which is why he cast aside every part of himself but the curse, everything but his very self. Miquella is the curse, the curse of Marika.
The moment I found the fissure cross, where Miquella discarded his love, I was sure that defeating him was the right choice. How can you bring in the age of compassion if you're devoid of love?
Thinking about it, if Marika and Radagon were once one and Miquella and St. Trina are as well.. and St. Trina is about sleep and with resting waters comes stagnation and decay, that's another parallel. And if we didn't stop Miquella would he have done the same kind of thing Marika did? Eventually send his consort Radahn away to war in distant lands, eventually rejoin with St. Trina and have them as their consort? Or at least that would have happened if Miquella didnt shed St Trina from him prematurely and leave her to die, remember St Trina WILL eventually wilt. Miquella was both following in his mother's footsteps but also made sure not to make similar mistakes, instead eliminating that second half of him before the betrayal comes. Thinking about that however, I had the thought "Would St Trina have actually betrayed or worked against Miquella's age of compassion? I don't see that happening," did Radagon not also work WITH Marika only to eventually work against her? Idk I'm just spewing a bunch of thoughts as my inner monologue speaks in my head and my hands just type away as the words come. A lot to chew on here and I doubt we ever will get any answers that are clear.
St. Trina's love is a toxic one. She would rather kill him, than allow him to experience the potential eternal pain that he is willing to subject himself to (or at least thinks he is), for what he believes is the greater good. I imagine she would sabotage that in a heartbeat, if we didn't do it for her, lol.
IF Jerren could be at the Gate of Divinity, with The Tarnished, one could imagine his reaction would be like, and NONE of them would have been good! Miquella being a monster, is no surprise, because one of MANY facts, Miquella left his "beloved" Twin Sister, Malenia, to rot and DIE! He used EVERYONE, and was a monster, from the start!
Where does it say, that seduction means Fingers seducting Marika? I rather think it means Marika seducing Hornsent into allowing her to Gates of Divinity and somehow (with the help of Fingers I suppose) snatching the longed for godhood from them, not to give them their deity but to become one herself. The one who proceeded to destroy Hornsent altogether later.
Yeah. There is a very clear, child like, fickleness about his character. And he is literally cursed with eternal youth. And I very seldom see people realize this very obvious connection. Creators included. Not sure why. And I think part of his Haligtree tree deal, involved him being reborn (look at the coffins throughout the area, with a twinkish man, cloaked, holding a large needle as a staff) as an adult and ultimately God, with Godwyn as elden lord. And if he planned his kidnapping, than it might suggest that he sees something, get's an idea, starts doing it, get distracted by a different and more sparkly object, then moves on to that, leaving behind certain persecuted people, who made a dangerous trek, for your promise of fixing them, only for you to mossy off, because you remembered your childhood (pun intended) brother-crush still exists. Hopefully you get my sentiment, here.
@johneverimanne3986 yeah I get what you mean here, kind of like a child getting a new toy and then being uninterested with it the next day. I don't think godwhyn was supposed to he his lord tho.
Radahn definitely wanted this. He wants to be just like his heroes Radagon and Godfrey, and he is determined to follow in their footsteps. He’s the ultimate LARPer.
Marika's special ability that would be akin to Miquella's ability to persuade, coerce, and gain the trust and loyalty of others would be her ability to conceal, alter, and manipulate how others perceive reality itself. Two of the most impressive examples of this power are having Radagon's sudden appearance as a hero of gold and rise to Elden Lord never be connected to her by anyone outside of her family, despite highly sus orders such ss the sewing shut of the Preceptor's mouths (i think this symbolic addition to their masks had literal powers over what they could/could not say), and of course the concealment of the "Land of Shadow" from the rest of the Lands Between. We know she had powerful illusion magic from the magic artifact Marika's Veil, which allows the wearer to convincingly take the form of virtually any object within vicinity of the user. In the DLC we learn how she manipulates the masses by using what amount to magic contact lenses to alter how the wearer sers the world around them, effectively changing how they perceived reality itself as she saw fit. I know this is tied somehow to Grace, as the Grace bestowed by Marika shone so brightly that even the mightiest were blinded by its brilliance. Im unsure if Grace is a power originating from/controlled by Marika, or if she is simply a conduit through which the guidance of Grace passes from the divine realms into the spiritual realm the Lands Between exists within, meaning that it is a power being used to further the goals of some other deity (such as the Greater Will or Crucible, perhaps)
This was SO interesting! New Sub! The other day, I found out from a very well known Elden Ring YT'er (can't remember his name, lol!), and he said this:' Moore is actually human!' 'He has a human face model and everything!' You may have to do a bit of digging to find it, but, it's there! Of course, now more questions arises! HOW did he get to the Land of Shadow? Was Moore BORN in the Shadowlands? Did he, possibly, arrive there after the events of Caelid and the Scarlet Aeonia? (since ALL manner of Death wash up eventually to the Lands of Shadow!) Since Romina looks after the Scarlet Pests, Moore, upon discovering this small bunch of Kindred Pests, who just wanted to find stuff to help people, decided to try his best to take care of them, after this bunch too was abandoned probably by Malenia! I think, one of the strongest armor sets in Elden RIng, was probably a gift to Moore, to show him the gratitude from the Forager and Scarlet Broods! Even since the Scarlet ones had Romina, what Moore is trying to do, still wanted to thank Moore anyway! Even the Verdigre Talisman, is found in the part of the Ruins of Rauh, that is their home! (also, if you have to fight Moore, he chucks Rot Pots at you during the Gank Fight at Enir Elim!) OH! I also learned that there IS a way, to save Moore, without having to tell him to be "sad forever"! I'm not sure, but, the second way is to not to interact with Moore very much? (gotta look that up again!) I know a lot of this is heavy speculation with a good topping of Tin-Foil Hat, but, it looks like I'm NOT done speculating about the DLC, YET, lol! In my own mind, (this is a bit of my own theorizing), Moore is a Forgotten Demi-god, like it's been theorized that Boc, the Demi-human, could be one, so is Hewg the Misbegotton, and a couple more! This video really got me thinking again, Thank You! (this insanity is just for fun, LOL!)
There is an anime airing this season and the heroine reminds ov Miquella. The anime is called "I shall become a Villainess that goes down in history" its Liz Cather.
With the release of the second season of Arcane there are many parallels between Viktor and Miquella. Both are Grail genius artificers whose weakness engenders an unhealthy form of empathy. The seek to make the world a gentler place because they cannot thrive in the world as it is and identify with all the others who are weak too as a result. Both perceive the loss of free will as a necessary sacrifice to usher in a world as gentle and weak as they are rather address more mundane root causes of suffering. Both create a doomed pacifistic sanctuary. Both enslave a powerful protector by destroying their personality. Radhan for Miquella, Warwick for Victor. Both are destroyed by a rogue out of nowhere element that couldn't be foreseen. The Tarnished for Miquella, Ekko for Viktor. Both discard their flesh to become the emotionless monsters necessary to see their vision through. Viktor manages to regain some of it back though, while the more entitled Miquella never had it.
@@SmallOneEyedKing Fatbrett's video is great. The idea that cursed children are a reflection of the sins of their parents and that followers usually have a lot to say about their leader are ideas that inspired me to make my own video.
You typed that like you don't understand that this is ultimately a telephone game. Like I believe that the red and white flesh mushrooms are Marika/Radagons "lily." Why? Because I watched a video by a creator, about the clear Shinto/Shinto Buddism influences ingame. The religions shrine maidens (Marika's people) traditionally wear white and red. I also found out from another creator that Mari/Raddi represent the Rebis, from historic alchemy. Also known as the Red King and White Queen. I also whatched a vid from another creator, who who made it clear to me, that gold is a stand in for the white. Your first day on the job?
Miquella's Age of Compassion is my #1. WHY?😤👍 *Age of start:* It is just replacing one outer God for another. Like the Greater Will to Queen Marika, there is no telling what sinister plans Ranni's outer God hides from her, regardless of what she promises to those living under it.😩👎 *Age Of Fracture, Age of Order, Elder Lord:* Are all under the influence of the Greater Will.😑 *Age of The Duskborn:* Under the Greater Will too, but to live in life and death? It doesn't sound that bad unless death deprives us of our five senses.🤔 *The Frenzier Flame:* Heck, that outer God is worse than the Greater Will. A HUGE🙅 ❌❌ for me😣 *Blessing of Despair:* F🤬 that, the name *"Despair"* alone gives it away. We don't call it a curse because is good, not matter what romantic 💩you add to it.😡 If there is to be some form of God or Ruler, I would rather there be one that accepts us all and enchants us to care about each other than one who chooses some over others or leaves everyone to their own untrustworthy devices.😎👌
The greater will abandoned the lands between and doesn't care about it, there is no influence of the greater will in the lands between, also the greater will is not a outer god and probably the same goes for the frenzied flame, also Ranni's ending removes the influence of all gods and the dark moon isn't referred to as an outer god (to my knowledge) and it doesn't "take control" of the lands between, Ranni's ending is the one that gives free will but uncertainty for the future.
@@yohan9101 *WRONG.* The Greater Will NEVER abandoned The Lands Between. It simply abandoned those it no longer needed. It only needed the Mother of fingers to find potential Empyreans/hosts, which she did through her children, and the Greater Will abandoned her once she did. The Greater Will planned to control the chosen Empyrian fully, like a puppet through the Elder beast, so it never intended to watch over Queen Marika and her descendants. Queen Marika came to that realization at some point, leading her making plans of her own. This plan included Hewg's curse to forge a weapon that could kill a God and the banishment of the Tarnished, knowing they would Grow strong enough to kill a God. She may not have predicted Godwynd's assassination, but his death sped up and precipitated all cards to fall in their place. *Finally,* contrary to her belief, Queen Marika never had control over her fate. She was never a true Goddess but a puppet, a host to an unknown entity. There is no saying a similar fate awaits Ranni.
Makes one wonder, when Miquella's Rune is broken, does his enchantment over those in the Lands Between, especially the Haligtree, disappear too? This next part would have been SO cool in the DLC, sad, but cool! IF Malenia is still ALIVE, when you go into the DLC, and somehow, you could bring her to the Lands of Shadow, straight from either Miquella's or The Tarnished's own mouth, (and has QUITE the conversation with Ansbach) learns the truth, what would transpire at the Gate of Divinity, would make Caelid, look like a JOKE, by comparison! I bet also, Malenia would be horrified and disgusted, on what Miquella did to Lord Mohg and General Radahn! (in a alternate version of events) I may put together a fan-fic, that goes into greater detail, than what I just stated! Like, Messmer, Midra, Gaius, and MANY more would ALL be there at that darn Gate! And the BIGGEST battle, since The Shattering War, would take place!
Lies. Leadership requires hard decisions. And taking away the will of a few bloodthirsty, Marika-indoctrinated zealots is hardly a crime - its just PHRASED as a crime by blood-daddy, and most people are followers - weak to pleasant sounding soundbites. We see this in the rise of despots, over and over. He tried to save the albinaurics and the omens. He fought for those unfairly brutalized, in a society that eagerly scorned them. Ranni's goals were worthy, but she took a much more questionable path. Rykard's were traumatized revenge. Radagon was a fundamentalist - an ideal flawed both in game and irl, as nuance is too important. You shouldnt really take Leda as an example of Miquella - though even if you did, his goals are worthy. In the current order, the cruel thrive, die, and are born again. Cruelty is inherent to man - unless, one were to pluck it out. Ill watch again before i decide, but as it stands, i have several needles waiting for you.
Why does he treat Malenia as a lost cause, then, while she waits for his return? “My loyal blade… (your) deeds will ever be praised in song.” As though she wouldn’t/can’t be present after his victory and return, when, if the player did not exist, she would be. I don’t think Miquella himself assumes you already killed her, he doesn’t even know you would win against him. This doesn’t seem like a single instance of cruelty towards his sister that would be part of what he does for the sake of removal of all cruelty. If abandonment of Trina really was a necessity, i can see that cruelty being justifiable, but why this dismissal of his sister? Right? Unless you see it differently. Also, unrelated to that confusion-are the choices the Tarnished can make, as in, the choice for which Mending Rune or lack thereof to use to bring about the next age, not also hard choices required by self-imposed leadership? And unrelated to that, what do you think about Leda’s line-the one that goes something like “No matter what he divests himself of, his lineage will always remain”? Isn’t she mistaken? Because, if not, it would mean Lord Miquella hasn’t broken out of the “gods no better than men” box that defines his family and inner conflict between who he is and what he envisions for the world. Right?
For what it’s worth, I just thought of a possible logical answer for why Malenia is treated like a lost cause. Assume Malenia abandoning her pride in order to bloom at Caelid means more than you initially think. Perhaps this loss of pride would be more similar to abandoning her humanity, something fundamental about herself. If Miquella were not to be surprised by Malenia blooming to achieve her goal against Radahn, and assuming he is as wise and smart as he has always been made out to be, then he would understand that Malenia would be fundamentally altered. In other words, he could be aware that her ruin is a condition of Radahn’s death/travel to the Shadow Realm. A lost cause. If the prideless Malenia is something Miquella is choosing to sacrifice, like Trina, or his allegiance with the Tarnished, this would be why he praises his presumably living sister in post-loss song. He treats her as though she were dead as a person. It assumes a few things, and then doesn’t explain why Miquella approaches Freyja and not Finlay/the not-dead Malenia, as @LianleoC observed. Perhaps he doesn’t know she is alive. Perhaps he really did assume she would perish for her victory.
I like to think that miquella couldn’t charm radahn until he was defeated by us so that’s why he wasn’t miquella consort sooner also he had to had him killed to continue his fate due to the stars being held back
Miquella was always Evil he tricked everyone, and when the Golden Order abandoned the Demigods. He would try his best to avoid that Destiny, he tried to abandoned the Fate that Marika had installed for him but that was not Possible.
The stagnation came from the God of Rot, not Radagon. I get what you're going for, but the external source would make, if symbolic, her condition redundant.
Don't you DARE make a video about Miquella the kind
Oh, hells- RUN SCADU, SHE'S CRAZY!
"A monster full of love that doesn't understand what love is" has to be the best sentence summary I've heard for miquella
This guy dropped Millicent a sun warmth stone he is a real one
Wouldn't it just extend her suffering tho...
The quiet after we beat consort Radahn and how nothing really happens and it all ends at this divine gate at the top of this tower made me wonder if what I did was the right thing or if it was just marika using me as one of her champions to stop Miquella from dethroning her as queen of all everything
Marika at that point of a story is a dead husk with a single wish for you: destroy the Golden Order. This was her initial plan when sending Tarnished into excile.
The same thing happens at the end of the Dark Souls 3 DLC... when you defeat Gael at the end of time where everything has turned to a desert of grey ash... he just dies and that's it. There's no little ending visual at all. He dies and you stand at the very end of all existence, finally holding the "Dark Soul" but it really means nothing. Sure, you've gained everything... but it's worth nothing in the end. It's hauntingly beautiful, but also worthless.
@@johnvoices4087 well... you can actually go and give the Dark Soul to Painting Girl, so she could paint a new world...
You gotta chug a flask that’s what Alexander the Great did
Marika doesn't want the throne.
Monster or not how can you deny that glorious hair cape? SURRENDER YOUR HEART TO THE HAIR CAPE.
I suspect that the St Trina which Miquella abandoned was his love for himself (something akin to his ego, self regard, or self obsession) and not his love and compassion for all things generally.
Notice how none of St Trina's dialogue suggested that Miquella's plans would in any way be bad for the rest of the world, only for Miquella?
For what is apparently the embodiment of love and compassion, St Trina completely ignores everyone BUT Miquella and anyone that she believed could "help save" him. She doesn't even bother acknowledging poor Thiollier's existence, and he's sitting right next to her.
St Trina hates the idea of Miquella sacrificing himself and his freedom, even if it's for the good of the entire Lands Between.
Additional thought: When Miquella manages to charm you in his fight, why does your health-bar get drained away, forcing you to respawn? It's almost as if your "health" and your life is something that can be taken away at a whim and that your respawns are controlled by another force.
@@greatwarden4853 Interesting. I like this idea a lot.
Also to note; Compassion and love are not the same emotion. There are some links, but you can feel compassion for someone you hold no love for at all - or even someone you hate, or that hates you.
Miquella's story has several layers of irony and tragedy the more you read deeply into it.
He is probably the most "admirable" character in the story in the nietzsche sense, expressing a coming of age "übermensch" story, where even marika wasn't technically an actual god (the elden beast is the true "god" and marika was just the vessel that had some privileges and became considered "god" by proxy), miquella was the only character in the game to actually grow to become a "god" through his own craftiness and sacrifices, but in the end, miquella lost for a simple reason, there's bigger fish out there controlling the lands between and imposing their order on these lands other than him.
Miquella himself reached the status of "god" because we see radahn summoning him from the gates of divinity, with radahn being the "lord" and mohg being the "vessel" (the secret rite formula made a lord and vessel become necessary "magnets" that attract divinity through spiral invocation), we see that miquella, having sacrificed his flesh and all of his mortal flaws, weaknesses and corporeal burdens, became a tempered soul that the gate of divinity evolved into a "god" and pulled him back and attached him to his "lord" and "vessel", whereas marika was completely different, in her case, she was the "vessel" and her own second half radagon was the "lord", which is why we see her summon something in the trailer (she didn't step out of the gate of divinity like miquella did), that something being the summoned "god" which is the elden beast, falling to the lands between in a star.
Marika is considered a god because she is the physical vessel of radagon, who is the lord of the elden ring, except marika, vessel that she is, seemed to be the dominant personality due to her special biology, with radagon being her loyal second half who had less agency but a deep desire to keep her alive at all costs (i assume he attacked the tarnished and sealed the erdtree fearing the tarnished might choose the chaos or ranni endings where marika dies).
Marika, despite just being the vessel, exploited a loophole giving her the most agency in the trio, with radagon just being her loyal half and the elden beast just being ok with any "order" that the lord and vessel configure into it, this suggests that the greater will is the true "god" of the lands between, with the "god" elden beast being just a lowly vassal in comparison.
The greater will chose our tarnished to become a proper elden lord because radagon was broken alongside marika, and all the other empyreans had their own agendas, refusing to become "vessels" that replaced the fractured marika, and the rest of the demigods being either dead, half dead, half snakes, scarlet rot zombies, or being cursed omen didn't help either with replacing the fractured radagon (godwyn was killed because he was obviously going to be the next eldenlord in a heartbeat, rendering the easily influenced tarnished still graceless).
The tarnished were literally the lucky ones who benefited most from the sad state of affairs in the lands between, because all the more suitable options were broken, meaning that our conflict with miquella was, like leda put it, pre scripted by the erdtree.
The greater will is the main "antagonist" of the narrative, representing how "gods" and "outer gods" in the setting are simply beings that demand faith from their subjects regardless of what happens to their subjects, simply throwing them a bone in the benefits of a specific order that might inspire said blind faith that gives these "gods" meaning in their eternal lifes.
In short, miquella simply lost because he tried to compete with the greater will, which represented the conncept and evils of "godhood" to a greater extent in the narrative than miquella, who was only "god" for less than a minute before being thrown into a fight with a hardened tarnished who ate mesmer and malenia and the elden beast for breakfast, a tarnished who the greater will supported with a guidance of grace so potent that it lets them endlessly revive from even maliketh's blade of destined death and the black knives, and the positioning of the site of grace right outside the gates of divinity also shows how the greater will directly deals with lesser "gods" challenging its order.
Miquella also lost for another possible reason, because his plan required the killing of radahn in caelid, the stars resumed their movement, which allowed the fate of ranni's age of the stars to begin moving again, destined to eventually replace marika's golden order, this made both the stars' fate and the greater will's grace unite in competing with miquella's newfound "god" status, which was apparently also destined by the stars and cursed by grace to be "nascent" and immature, meaning that miquella was cursed from the start to never make his plans "mature" into fruition, including his attempt of bringing back godwin's soul in castle sol and trying to cure malenia from her scarlet rot.
In the end, we see miquella simply accept the abrupt end of his age by embracing radahn before fading away into oblivion, with the circlet of light simply symbolizing his desire to embrace the rest of the lands between similarly to how he embraced radahn in his final moments.
It turned out that, while he "grew" to become a "god", he didn't grow out of his childish fantasy when he envisioned his order of kindness.
He made the decision to sacrifice his love, which is expressed by the narrative as a sign of immaturity during his interpretation of exactly what type of "god" he wanted to become, i assume a sign of that immaturity is also in how he didn't choose to just run away from the battle with the tarnished, which he could've easily done metyr style by using radahn's comet gravity powers, i think that is because he removed his own doubts, which is probably another sign of his immature fantasy of being on radahn's side through endless easily avoidable battles.
I assume if miquella had reached his full potential, he would've grown to become another "outer god", spreading his influence in the form of charm incantations to other planets, but his curse of youth probably prevented that from ever happening.
We all know Godfrey is the real Aryan ubermensch giga-chad.
Good work!
Amazing
I ain't reading all that
@@HSwanny its worth it, trust
there is also a theory that since miquella is compassiona and trina is love
then marika is order, and radagon is loyalty
I like how fromsoft continues the anime old adage of "Don't trust polite twinks with high ambitions"
The line "His Eminence, or the Erdtree, must have sent you all along." Gets me so bad. Even the first time I heard it, it felt so important. Leda didn't say MARIKA or HER Eminence, she said HIS. For a while, I really thought she meant Miquella as "his eminence," must have meant for you to show up and cross blades to prove his right for the crown, against you, the other contender. But she mentions Miquella also separately after this sentence, and with it being literally attached to "OR the Erdtree" makes me think she's actually referring to RADAGON. Now I guess she could be referring to both Miquella and the Erdtree separately in that sentence, but that doesn't make sense for her to say that they both sent you to here? It makes way more sense if Radagon was the one who wanted us to become lord and continue his precious order, than Marika, who really I feel like just wants it to end. It makes the DLC so much more intriguing if Radagon was the one to send us to defeat his son, two once on the same side and making spells together, now bitter foes. One trying to redo and correct his mother's mistakes and accept her for the whole of her and one who only wants his partner to be a certain thing and uphold a certain ideal for him. I just feel like there's so much more hidden Radagon in like, the whole of the game 😂
"I say the whole world must learn of our peaceful ways! BY FORCE!" Bender Bending Rodríguez
GRRM has the same plot line with Bran in ASOIAF. he uses his powers and doesn’t understand the consequences it’s having on Hodor. this helps explain Miquella and his naivety. i’m glad you finally said it. it’s in the foreshadowing and people don’t see it
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"; if one is to slay the beast, one must take the utmost care not to become the beast itself. There is a reason why hero's are so tragic, and why their adversaries even more so.
Mf thought he fresh with this “deep”quote
@androidtalking nah, just posing a question someone like you wouldn't bother asking seeing as you can't tell the difference between a good narrative arc and a d-list marvel film.
The God we fight atop Enir Ilim... is not Miquella, it is Marika (sort of)
The community assumes Miquella has discarded every part of himself because "the roots are rotted". But that entire idea comes courtesy of perhaps the least reliable character in the game Ymir. He has his own cunning intentions, and is pretty clearly insane.
In the base game, one of the few things we learn about Miquella is that his prime will be short lived. He will die almost as soon as he reaches his potential. He is a Water Lily. I think it is very fair to assume Miquella knew this. So why on earth would his final goal be to become a God of "compassion" when he knows any potential will immediately be met with his demise?
Look what we find atop the tower. A god with white gold, braided hair. He has not discarded his "rotted roots" he has discarded everything BUT his rotted roots. He has discarded everything, except the part of himself that is Marika. Why? Because he knows he will die, and Marika, the idea, will die along side him. As he has become Marika at this point.
Miquella's story is undoubtably tragic. But it is not what most think it is. Miquella wanted to be the saviour, but because of his fate, because of his very blood, he is doomed to die. Which is why he cast aside every part of himself but the curse, everything but his very self.
Miquella is the curse, the curse of Marika.
There's also a fairly deep psychological reading of the story, baked in to the game. Miquella being Marika's "inner child."
@@johneverimanne3986 I mean, is an inner child not just your past self?
The moment I found the fissure cross, where Miquella discarded his love, I was sure that defeating him was the right choice. How can you bring in the age of compassion if you're devoid of love?
very nice video. subbed.
looking forward to your future works.
Lmao I did not expect you to create a New channel just for Elden Ring lore. I'm fucking stoked to have you theorizing buddy
Thinking about it, if Marika and Radagon were once one and Miquella and St. Trina are as well.. and St. Trina is about sleep and with resting waters comes stagnation and decay, that's another parallel. And if we didn't stop Miquella would he have done the same kind of thing Marika did? Eventually send his consort Radahn away to war in distant lands, eventually rejoin with St. Trina and have them as their consort? Or at least that would have happened if Miquella didnt shed St Trina from him prematurely and leave her to die, remember St Trina WILL eventually wilt. Miquella was both following in his mother's footsteps but also made sure not to make similar mistakes, instead eliminating that second half of him before the betrayal comes. Thinking about that however, I had the thought "Would St Trina have actually betrayed or worked against Miquella's age of compassion? I don't see that happening," did Radagon not also work WITH Marika only to eventually work against her?
Idk I'm just spewing a bunch of thoughts as my inner monologue speaks in my head and my hands just type away as the words come. A lot to chew on here and I doubt we ever will get any answers that are clear.
St. Trina's love is a toxic one. She would rather kill him, than allow him to experience the potential eternal pain that he is willing to subject himself to (or at least thinks he is), for what he believes is the greater good. I imagine she would sabotage that in a heartbeat, if we didn't do it for her, lol.
Malenia is my favorite character in Elden Ring
Agreed
I feel like it's still too early to truly decide. Which is a hilarious thought.
Marika be wilding
Lol. Marika be shopping!
IF Jerren could be at the Gate of Divinity, with The Tarnished, one could imagine his reaction would be like, and NONE of them would have been good! Miquella being a monster, is no surprise, because one of MANY facts, Miquella left his "beloved" Twin Sister, Malenia, to rot and DIE! He used EVERYONE, and was a monster, from the start!
Where does it say, that seduction means Fingers seducting Marika? I rather think it means Marika seducing Hornsent into allowing her to Gates of Divinity and somehow (with the help of Fingers I suppose) snatching the longed for godhood from them, not to give them their deity but to become one herself. The one who proceeded to destroy Hornsent altogether later.
I will explain myself better and why I said that in the future Marika analysis
I mean she gets called a strumpet 😂 It should be pretty obvious that it's the obvious meaning. Marika my fav single mother god.
@ripvanwinkle3432 yeah, old dame was royally pissed with her and not for crusade but for something whorrible)
Tragedy of miquella is that he has the mind of a child and can't comprehend how bad his actions are
Yeah. There is a very clear, child like, fickleness about his character. And he is literally cursed with eternal youth. And I very seldom see people realize this very obvious connection. Creators included. Not sure why. And I think part of his Haligtree tree deal, involved him being reborn (look at the coffins throughout the area, with a twinkish man, cloaked, holding a large needle as a staff) as an adult and ultimately God, with Godwyn as elden lord. And if he planned his kidnapping, than it might suggest that he sees something, get's an idea, starts doing it, get distracted by a different and more sparkly object, then moves on to that, leaving behind certain persecuted people, who made a dangerous trek, for your promise of fixing them, only for you to mossy off, because you remembered your childhood (pun intended) brother-crush still exists. Hopefully you get my sentiment, here.
@johneverimanne3986 yeah I get what you mean here, kind of like a child getting a new toy and then being uninterested with it the next day. I don't think godwhyn was supposed to he his lord tho.
Radahn definitely wanted this. He wants to be just like his heroes Radagon and Godfrey, and he is determined to follow in their footsteps. He’s the ultimate LARPer.
38:35 From his tree, to the eldenring, to his consort king, where's his crown
Marika's special ability that would be akin to Miquella's ability to persuade, coerce, and gain the trust and loyalty of others would be her ability to conceal, alter, and manipulate how others perceive reality itself. Two of the most impressive examples of this power are having Radagon's sudden appearance as a hero of gold and rise to Elden Lord never be connected to her by anyone outside of her family, despite highly sus orders such ss the sewing shut of the Preceptor's mouths (i think this symbolic addition to their masks had literal powers over what they could/could not say), and of course the concealment of the "Land of Shadow" from the rest of the Lands Between.
We know she had powerful illusion magic from the magic artifact Marika's Veil, which allows the wearer to convincingly take the form of virtually any object within vicinity of the user. In the DLC we learn how she manipulates the masses by using what amount to magic contact lenses to alter how the wearer sers the world around them, effectively changing how they perceived reality itself as she saw fit.
I know this is tied somehow to Grace, as the Grace bestowed by Marika shone so brightly that even the mightiest were blinded by its brilliance. Im unsure if Grace is a power originating from/controlled by Marika, or if she is simply a conduit through which the guidance of Grace passes from the divine realms into the spiritual realm the Lands Between exists within, meaning that it is a power being used to further the goals of some other deity (such as the Greater Will or Crucible, perhaps)
Miquellla's charm doesn't take free will away
This was SO interesting! New Sub! The other day, I found out from a very well known Elden Ring YT'er (can't remember his name, lol!), and he said this:' Moore is actually human!' 'He has a human face model and everything!' You may have to do a bit of digging to find it, but, it's there! Of course, now more questions arises! HOW did he get to the Land of Shadow? Was Moore BORN in the Shadowlands? Did he, possibly, arrive there after the events of Caelid and the Scarlet Aeonia? (since ALL manner of Death wash up eventually to the Lands of Shadow!) Since Romina looks after the Scarlet Pests, Moore, upon discovering this small bunch of Kindred Pests, who just wanted to find stuff to help people, decided to try his best to take care of them, after this bunch too was abandoned probably by Malenia! I think, one of the strongest armor sets in Elden RIng, was probably a gift to Moore, to show him the gratitude from the Forager and Scarlet Broods! Even since the Scarlet ones had Romina, what Moore is trying to do, still wanted to thank Moore anyway! Even the Verdigre Talisman, is found in the part of the Ruins of Rauh, that is their home! (also, if you have to fight Moore, he chucks Rot Pots at you during the Gank Fight at Enir Elim!) OH! I also learned that there IS a way, to save Moore, without having to tell him to be "sad forever"! I'm not sure, but, the second way is to not to interact with Moore very much? (gotta look that up again!) I know a lot of this is heavy speculation with a good topping of Tin-Foil Hat, but, it looks like I'm NOT done speculating about the DLC, YET, lol! In my own mind, (this is a bit of my own theorizing), Moore is a Forgotten Demi-god, like it's been theorized that Boc, the Demi-human, could be one, so is Hewg the Misbegotton, and a couple more! This video really got me thinking again, Thank You! (this insanity is just for fun, LOL!)
There is an anime airing this season and the heroine reminds ov Miquella. The anime is called "I shall become a Villainess that goes down in history" its Liz Cather.
I was sure. To me, by the final battle Miquella had given up, he'd lost hope.
A hopeless god would result in a truly terrible age.
It's quite possible, that The Tarnished is the Last of the Pureblood Knights!
Don't trust miquella? I just gave them my credit card 💳!!!
With the release of the second season of Arcane there are many parallels between Viktor and Miquella. Both are Grail genius artificers whose weakness engenders an unhealthy form of empathy. The seek to make the world a gentler place because they cannot thrive in the world as it is and identify with all the others who are weak too as a result. Both perceive the loss of free will as a necessary sacrifice to usher in a world as gentle and weak as they are rather address more mundane root causes of suffering. Both create a doomed pacifistic sanctuary. Both enslave a powerful protector by destroying their personality. Radhan for Miquella, Warwick for Victor. Both are destroyed by a rogue out of nowhere element that couldn't be foreseen. The Tarnished for Miquella, Ekko for Viktor. Both discard their flesh to become the emotionless monsters necessary to see their vision through. Viktor manages to regain some of it back though, while the more entitled Miquella never had it.
oh wow you reacted to fat brett's analysis video so cool
@@SmallOneEyedKing Fatbrett's video is great. The idea that cursed children are a reflection of the sins of their parents and that followers usually have a lot to say about their leader are ideas that inspired me to make my own video.
@scadutheaxolotl Yeah I also watched his channel for writing analysis
You typed that like you don't understand that this is ultimately a telephone game. Like I believe that the red and white flesh mushrooms are Marika/Radagons "lily." Why? Because I watched a video by a creator, about the clear Shinto/Shinto Buddism influences ingame. The religions shrine maidens (Marika's people) traditionally wear white and red. I also found out from another creator that Mari/Raddi represent the Rebis, from historic alchemy. Also known as the Red King and White Queen. I also whatched a vid from another creator, who who made it clear to me, that gold is a stand in for the white.
Your first day on the job?
truly a monster, not knowingly but he was nonetheless
'...the seduction.. AND THE BETRAYAL..'
The miquellester
bomb
Miquella's Age of Compassion is my #1. WHY?😤👍
*Age of start:* It is just replacing one outer God for another. Like the Greater Will to Queen Marika, there is no telling what sinister plans Ranni's outer God hides from her, regardless of what she promises to those living under it.😩👎
*Age Of Fracture, Age of Order, Elder Lord:* Are all under the influence of the Greater Will.😑
*Age of The Duskborn:* Under the Greater Will too, but to live in life and death? It doesn't sound that bad unless death deprives us of our five senses.🤔
*The Frenzier Flame:* Heck, that outer God is worse than the Greater Will. A HUGE🙅 ❌❌ for me😣
*Blessing of Despair:* F🤬 that, the name *"Despair"* alone gives it away. We don't call it a curse because is good, not matter what romantic 💩you add to it.😡
If there is to be some form of God or Ruler, I would rather there be one that accepts us all and enchants us to care about each other than one who chooses some over others or leaves everyone to their own untrustworthy devices.😎👌
The greater will abandoned the lands between and doesn't care about it, there is no influence of the greater will in the lands between, also the greater will is not a outer god and probably the same goes for the frenzied flame, also Ranni's ending removes the influence of all gods and the dark moon isn't referred to as an outer god (to my knowledge) and it doesn't "take control" of the lands between, Ranni's ending is the one that gives free will but uncertainty for the future.
@@yohan9101 *WRONG.* The Greater Will NEVER abandoned The Lands Between. It simply abandoned those it no longer needed.
It only needed the Mother of fingers to find potential Empyreans/hosts, which she did through her children, and the Greater Will abandoned her once she did. The Greater Will planned to control the chosen Empyrian fully, like a puppet through the Elder beast, so it never intended to watch over Queen Marika and her descendants. Queen Marika came to that realization at some point, leading her making plans of her own. This plan included Hewg's curse to forge a weapon that could kill a God and the banishment of the Tarnished, knowing they would Grow strong enough to kill a God. She may not have predicted Godwynd's assassination, but his death sped up and precipitated all cards to fall in their place.
*Finally,* contrary to her belief, Queen Marika never had control over her fate. She was never a true Goddess but a puppet, a host to an unknown entity. There is no saying a similar fate awaits Ranni.
Makes one wonder, when Miquella's Rune is broken, does his enchantment over those in the Lands Between, especially the Haligtree, disappear too? This next part would have been SO cool in the DLC, sad, but cool! IF Malenia is still ALIVE, when you go into the DLC, and somehow, you could bring her to the Lands of Shadow, straight from either Miquella's or The Tarnished's own mouth, (and has QUITE the conversation with Ansbach) learns the truth, what would transpire at the Gate of Divinity, would make Caelid, look like a JOKE, by comparison! I bet also, Malenia would be horrified and disgusted, on what Miquella did to Lord Mohg and General Radahn! (in a alternate version of events) I may put together a fan-fic, that goes into greater detail, than what I just stated! Like, Messmer, Midra, Gaius, and MANY more would ALL be there at that darn Gate! And the BIGGEST battle, since The Shattering War, would take place!
Miquella...The Femboy
Lies. Leadership requires hard decisions. And taking away the will of a few bloodthirsty, Marika-indoctrinated zealots is hardly a crime - its just PHRASED as a crime by blood-daddy, and most people are followers - weak to pleasant sounding soundbites. We see this in the rise of despots, over and over.
He tried to save the albinaurics and the omens. He fought for those unfairly brutalized, in a society that eagerly scorned them.
Ranni's goals were worthy, but she took a much more questionable path. Rykard's were traumatized revenge. Radagon was a fundamentalist - an ideal flawed both in game and irl, as nuance is too important.
You shouldnt really take Leda as an example of Miquella - though even if you did, his goals are worthy. In the current order, the cruel thrive, die, and are born again. Cruelty is inherent to man - unless, one were to pluck it out.
Ill watch again before i decide, but as it stands, i have several needles waiting for you.
-Leda
@@agxryt Leda alt acc spotted
Why does he treat Malenia as a lost cause, then, while she waits for his return?
“My loyal blade… (your) deeds will ever be praised in song.”
As though she wouldn’t/can’t be present after his victory and return, when, if the player did not exist, she would be. I don’t think Miquella himself assumes you already killed her, he doesn’t even know you would win against him.
This doesn’t seem like a single instance of cruelty towards his sister that would be part of what he does for the sake of removal of all cruelty. If abandonment of Trina really was a necessity, i can see that cruelty being justifiable, but why this dismissal of his sister? Right? Unless you see it differently.
Also, unrelated to that confusion-are the choices the Tarnished can make, as in, the choice for which Mending Rune or lack thereof to use to bring about the next age, not also hard choices required by self-imposed leadership?
And unrelated to that, what do you think about Leda’s line-the one that goes something like “No matter what he divests himself of, his lineage will always remain”? Isn’t she mistaken? Because, if not, it would mean Lord Miquella hasn’t broken out of the “gods no better than men” box that defines his family and inner conflict between who he is and what he envisions for the world. Right?
@Zythryl Worse. Why on earth did miquella visit a random radahn soldier and not the lone cleanrot knight dragging his sister home.
For what it’s worth, I just thought of a possible logical answer for why Malenia is treated like a lost cause.
Assume Malenia abandoning her pride in order to bloom at Caelid means more than you initially think. Perhaps this loss of pride would be more similar to abandoning her humanity, something fundamental about herself.
If Miquella were not to be surprised by Malenia blooming to achieve her goal against Radahn, and assuming he is as wise and smart as he has always been made out to be, then he would understand that Malenia would be fundamentally altered. In other words, he could be aware that her ruin is a condition of Radahn’s death/travel to the Shadow Realm. A lost cause.
If the prideless Malenia is something Miquella is choosing to sacrifice, like Trina, or his allegiance with the Tarnished, this would be why he praises his presumably living sister in post-loss song. He treats her as though she were dead as a person.
It assumes a few things, and then doesn’t explain why Miquella approaches Freyja and not Finlay/the not-dead Malenia, as @LianleoC observed. Perhaps he doesn’t know she is alive. Perhaps he really did assume she would perish for her victory.
I like to think that miquella couldn’t charm radahn until he was defeated by us so that’s why he wasn’t miquella consort sooner also he had to had him killed to continue his fate due to the stars being held back
Miquella did nothing wrong
What about my boy Mogh :(
The Moghlested
@@scadutheaxolotl Mogh was the first member of the 1000 year voyage of compassion! (:
Kids are cruel monsters, and Miquella is no different, prodigy or not.
Miquella was always Evil he tricked everyone, and when the Golden Order abandoned the Demigods. He would try his best to avoid that Destiny, he tried to abandoned the Fate that Marika had installed for him but that was not Possible.
The stagnation came from the God of Rot, not Radagon. I get what you're going for, but the external source would make, if symbolic, her condition redundant.