I LOL'D so hard at 5:26 when Denise showed her bounce 🤣🤣🤣 also, I'm not usually a commenter but I've left a few comments now ever since I started watching this podcast. I have to say it's awesome that you guys talk about the hard, complicated topics of our generation. Like Daniel, you're more of the facts guy. John is more of the one that speaks bluntly but in a non-provoking way. Jon Paul, you definitely like to push the line a bit despite of possible repercussions/reactions be it good or bad. And Denise, you bring a more level-headed argument and opinion that adds to the overall quality of the topic. I've said this before and I'll say it again, but pls pls pls upload more often 😣 I'm sure it's not easy filming and finding topics to discuss while maintaining a certain level of quality but so far, I can honestly say I've not found a single boring or unentertaining video. So keep it coming guys💯💯 Ps: I'm a girl but the little Segway of u guys talking about ur balls was freaking funny, maybe it's cuz I have 2 brothers that I lowkey understand ur pain despite it not being biologically possible 🤣🤣
I was taught that feminism is not just about equality for women and hating men. It is about examining the roles of each gender, ending gender discrimination, hence bringing about a society that treats both women and men equally. There are several thoughts of feminism, just that the radical and controversial ones tend to be in the limelight.
Fake feminists only want the best for women and never caring about men issues. Feminists are people who dont only campain for womens rights, which i support, but also campaign for men to be heard.
This podcast ignites my dislike of being born a female simply because we are on the shorter end biologically. 1. Monthly menstruation 2. Pregnancy 3. Childbirth labour 4. Post-natal depression 5. Breastfeeding (leaking boobs, infections, getting up at odd hours and so on) 6. Body shape changes permanently including pelvic widening 7. Hormones gone havoc (not just during pregnancy or menstruation but also menopause, it NEVER ends!) 8. Increased risk of osteoporosis, hair fall, diabetes, high blood pressure due to pregnancy 9. Down time after giving birth 10. Lost opportunities in the workplace either due to maternity or physically weaker than males (as in jobs that require body strength) 11. Higher chances of being molested (simply because we have both breasts and genital parts that are considered 'private') 12. Cannot go topless even when it is freaking hot and humid 13. Need to train hard on self-defence if there's any chance for us to physically overcome a male's attack 14. Possesses a genital part that's a hole instead of a pole (imagine being poked and beaten rather than the one doing the poking and beating) 15. In cases of rapes that result in pregnancy, females are the ones who live with the long-term problem Other points that are unrelated to biology issues: 16. "Marrying into" the males' household and changing surnames 17. Children often call out for their mommy, rarely their daddy so guess who needs to constantly make themselves available? 18. Divorced women are often seen as "used goods" 19. Unmarried women past a certain age are known as "obsolete goods" 20. Women that are vocal and independent are known as "pushy, bossy, bitchy" The list could go on and though we may strive to change society's perception of points #16 - #20, we cannot deny the *facts* for points #1 - #15 (except maybe #12).
I totally agree..believe there must be more education to open people’s minds and hearts on the inherent trade-offs females must make simply for our gender. It must be an open conversation or else I don’t see the point of pushing information vomit unless they are willing to listen (ahem, jon paul). One thing I would like to add on to your list is that in sexual harassment cases, it’s the females who get affected way more. Our sexual harassment laws seem appalling as offenders get away so lightly! Look at what happened to Monica Baey, Bellywellyjelly etc. The societal and emotional impact affected the females way more! To be fair, I must advocate that there must be more conversation on the real discrimination that males face as well. E.g. Males cannot be emotionally vulnerable, males do get sexually harassed but it’s not taken seriously leading to underreporting and repression. Both genders should work together for a more inclusive society.
oh my god this is the best episode and best podcast ive ever watched. Dan you really dodged so many bullets this one episode you make the matrix look like nothing sia HAHAHA AND ALL THE STORIES WERE HILARIOUS I CANNOT STOP LAUGHING KEEP IT UP GUYS. it was an amazingly insightful discussions and i really hope you keep this up because you are delivering something that is so unique to media right now. JIAYOUS!
Love Daniel’s commentary, it’s a factual and balanced view. Jon Paul is slightly aggressive with his tone, like he’s very defensive and not willing to hear the others out. My two cents!
There are a few interesting things I found out too! 1) the cab situation - apparently in some other "not so safe" country, it is better for men to get in the cab first. (maybe the wiggle in portion plays a part as well as y'all mention) It's because there are cases where the women went in, closed the door, and before the men can get in the cab, the driver drives off without the men, putting the women in a dangerous situation. 2) I remember seeing the ns post somewhere - On a broader view, women can service NS, because the purpose of going for ns is to serve the nation (It is National Service, not Protection Service). One good way to serve the nation can be about providing services such as healthcare services, environmental services, mental health services etc (doesn't always have to be protecting the nation with weapons) 3) As for the last case mentioned (being alienated) - (Personal view on this, do not blast me) I think it is not alienated if Dennis wanna know about it, and the men explained to Dennis as best as they could (likewise, if Dennis asked questions and the men just replied with, aiya, you don't know one, you are not men, then yes, I think that is being alienated). The same goes for Chinese speaking in Mandarin in front of a Malay friend, as long as we are trying to be inclusive, I think it is fine. (And it never hurts to try and understand the other party more right?) With explanations and exposure to a different perspective/feel/jokes/culture, it can potentially turn into a good outcome in the end, right? Don't have to accept, just stay open-minded and have empathy :)
A chivalrous man, a large part of what women are talking about is finding someone who will show them respect. Holding open a door, paying for the first date, and making sure you get home safely are kind and respectful acts. And isn’t respect something we all want? When you give respect, the right woman will give it back to you. Respect is an integral part of any relationship. When you use respect to set the tone early on in a relationship, you are more likely to build a foundation that is based on trust and intimacy. Chivalry is not dead, it has simply progressed. Treat the woman around you the way you would your Mum. You love and respect her and you wouldn’t want someone else treating her any different.
So You are saying you will treat every man like you would your father? So you would cook for him, act demure, never ague, quit your job to take care of kids. You do noe that stereotypes go both ways right. if you beholden men to old ways, cant we expect the same for women? When you give respect, the right man will give it back to you. Respect is an integral part of any relationship. When you use respect to set the tone early on in a relationship, you are more likely to build a foundation that is based on trust and intimacy. Treat the man around you the way you would your Dad. You love and respect her and you wouldn’t want someone else treating him any different. Respect is earned. It is not by default given.
@@Yami0to0hikari well, I dont cook or do any of those things for my dad so yeah🤷 You're missing the point completely. This commenter is saying they way we show respect has changed. Being considerate of the women during her period, paying her equally in the workforce, not dismissing her concerns are also showing respect just as much as holding the door or letting her get in the car first. Honestly it's kinda pointless to debate all these because (in singapore at least) there are so many people brought up on different social norms, hence what actions are seen as respectful differs person from person. One may feel like you're looking down on her ability to earn by insisting to pay on the first date, another may feel like you're a self-centred calculating cheapskate who doesnt care about their guests if you don't insist to pay on the first date.
@@JLDREAMS I don't cook or do any of those things for my dad too (technically what he says is not really true too, at least in SG, and if I treat all men like how I treat my father... they are all gonna say "you are such a princess") Anyway, I'm just here to say, I agree that respectful differed person to person. Just genuinely ask and understand the person you are interacting with and react accordingly if you want to continue a relationship (not just love) with the person :)
Feminism is pushing for equality between men and women. If we assume that we are equal, why is the burden of opening the door/paying for the first date/priority to get females home first on the burden of the man? You are disguising this inequality behind "respect". The three actions you have listed literally goes against what feminism (in its purest form) stands for. Respect does not necessarily come in the forms you have mentioned. Those are literally three forms that benefit and privilege women over men. The third point is contestable if you believe that men and women are biologically different and thus women are more prone to assault than men (which i believe). However, you may want to note that while women experience more sexual assault, men face overwhelmingly more assault and violent crimes. The problem with modern day feminism is that females will claim they are feminists but only when it is in their interests. They scream inequality when they are disadvantaged (and rightfully so, i believe in equality of opportunity between men and women). However, they fail to acknowledge their privileges and recognise that men TOO have their own unique problems. Would I treat a random female the same as my mother? Of course not. I would treat the female with the decorum as every individual should be treated. Howver, i would not treat her like how I would treat my family member, my kin. If i pose the same question back to you: Would you treat every man like your father?
Guys, it's a podcast, each episode shouldn't be this short!!! Jokes aside, I enjoy this podcast so so much. All of the podcast members bring so much to the table. I'm sure Dan tried to be reserved because cancel culture is so prevalent, but for open-minded listeners, it's so refreshing to hear these thought-provoking and honest discussions. Please don't be discouraged! Denise is my absolute favorite. I love how level-headed she is. and John C is such a rational and reasonable person. John P gets some criticism for being firm on this views but I actually enjoy his risky questions a lot and his daringness to play "devil's advocate" for good reasons. Podcast wouldn't be the same without his views. Keep it up guys!
omg pls have a part 2 follow ups of your videos! they are so interesting and sometimes one video ends and the conversation it’s just left hanging there :(
A missed opportunity to discuss some of our gender-specific laws and policies such as corporal punishment, sexual offences and modesty laws, spousal maintenance, gendered grooming standards etc. On the subject of wage disparity, the adjusted gap is 6% in 2020. However, it is worth noting that several key factors were not accounted for. Some of them are work experience, job performance, types of firm etc. Although the study did factored work hours, it did not consider the fact that men generally work more overtime, and working overtime have a positive correlation with progression and renumeration. Men are generally more likely to respond to work issues after working hours, more likely to be willing to travel, more likely to proactively ask for and negotiate harder for a raise, less likely to job hop, less likely to request for flexible work arrangement, less likely to go on hiatus. In some companies, men are typically given a higher starting salary by virtue of completing full-time NS.
Daniel made a lot of sense. Props to Jon Paul for mentioning Dr Jordan Peterson. He's quite a controversial guy around leftist circles. But his pov are backed up by science and research
I like how everyone was trying to be a bit PC, knowing how sensitive this topic is. Discussions about gender issues shouldn't be difficult for people of any specific gender! Also, an interesting point that I learnt from school is that benevolent sexism against men is labelled "benevolence towards men" and not "benevolent sexism". Food for thought... DAILY KETCHUP TO 100K SUBS
I've seen my fair share of man pretending not being able to move furniture or carry some heavier stuff when I am half their size and age during an office move and they skive away doing the "lighter" jobs there is.
I think it will be an interesting topic, but it will probably be better if they can invite one off guest who are not Chinese to give their views here too!
It's essentially a decision tree. Pick what is logical and aligned to your preferences. For example, if you dislike girls who feel entitled to free meals, stick to this opinion, ie. if the girl offers to pay, let her do so. If she was genuine about it, great! If not, you know that you want out anyway, right? It shouldn't be complicated. Unless you're all about impressing the girl and hence are affected by having to 'mind-read', to which I'll say - this will never work anyway, it's a terrible strategy for managing any sort of relationship in the first place. Mind-readers complicate everything but blame others for everything. Totally agree with JP about the cab scenario. It really does make more sense to let the girl get into the cab first, unless she adamantly refuses. Then just respect her wishes, I guess. And text her after to keep your own worries at bay, haha. For scenarios where you 'feel bad' on your own even though the girl didn't voice out anything - why? The issue lies with the person overthinking it. Most people don't enjoy feeling cold, but many people also dislike inconveniencing others and a good number take responsibility for their own mistakes. She does feel cold, yes. But she's not asking you for a jacket - don't overthink it. Take it as her being on the same page as you about it being her own fault for not bringing one. Why feel bad? You're on the same page. If you feel bad FOR her, as in you hate to see her suffer, then offering your jacket up will not make you feel bad, but rather, glad, that you could solve the problem. Feeling bad WHILE offering the jacket is an ego problem - you don't want to do it, but you feel even worse abut potentially looking bad. So this is something you should solve on your own, since the issue lies with you. Is it possible that the girl wants you to do it without her saying anything? Of course. So why would you feed such toxic mindsets by playing right into their hands? Don't do it.
Perhaps the team could have prepared a bit more by reading up on sociology of genders and sexes. The things we consume and reproduce are not completely intuitive to dismiss differences as being “built this way”. Surely sex and gender are rooted in biology, but a lot of ideals and expectations are constructed by society that each male / female child is brought up in. Maybe what we can grow towards as a society is to balance out gender-based information consumption (media, education, stories, opportunities, etc). A great start is like coding being a common school subject for all children.
Yeah true. 'You can't have your cake and eat it too'. The sooner we learn this, the better. I also feel the radical version of postmodernist feminism actually downplays the wonderful gift of motherhood. Being able to bring new life to this world is possibly one of the most amazing things any human being can achieve, and that's why we love our mothers so much.
actually, my guy friends or me will just walk to the other side of the cab and we'll open door for ourselves and get in at the same time.. no one has to scoot in or worry about driver driving off before the guy gets in and etc! and honestly i think there's also alot of discrimination for male genders on certain jobs! i've often see my male friends get rejected from jobs just because the recruiters preferred females!
There's a new show coming out soon on FX based on a graphic novel called Y: The Last Man. Very interesting premise where all the men in the world die and what happens after
About what they were discussing around the 20 min mark, I think part of the reason why industries such as engineering are male dominated is because they of way it is perceived/ packaged (it's not all about calculations and computers). All kinds of technically competent people are needed in engineering regardless of whether their thinking is focused on people or things. There has been a lot of focus for a while on human centred design, also engineers often work in teams and it helps to have a more diverse team (in terms of gender, race, background, ...) to perform well because it means having different ideas/ inputs when it comes to coming up with solutions. The industry is constantly changing and companies need to keep to up with it so having 'females in STEM' initiatives is a way of keeping up with the change (by trying fill up the demand) rather than 'giving chance' to them or benevolent sexism - a different perspective, though I'm not sure about other industries, I can only speak about engineering since it's the only one I've been exposed to. I'm not too sure about the pay gap either but the 'barriers' that Denise spoke about can also exist in the form of discrimination, prejudices, and ways that are less obvious. Those actions are important to make the workplace more inclusive so that minority genders won't have those barriers when entering into those industries. Anyways, great episode!
I would say, yes and no. As women are biologically not stronger than men. So it will be harder for them to get the same scores, I am talking generally. I would say to make it levrl, by Ig using averages and using that to get a certain standard that is different, so eg. 10 minutes for a guy is 11 minutes to a women on average with the same fitness, then that will be better
I used to buy into the idea that it's fine for women to pay on a date. But then there needs to be the understanding that women usually take much more effort to get ready for the date than a man. Using /buying /choosing the right makeup, clothes etc. How to quantify that? And since the added risk of molestation was mentioned in this video, what about the added risk for a woman to be on a date at all? I've encountered situations where I have been sexually assaulted - both with men I thought I knew well and with people I barely knew, both before and after marriage (said men were aware I was married and I didn't intend to date them, we simply met up as friends). How do we compensate for that risk? Another factor is who chooses the date location, and maybe even that pay gap. I was in a relationship with guy who always chose to visit expensive bars, but I am allergic to alcohol. After 6 months of paying for me he told me he wanted to go Dutch. We did, but looking back at that situation, I was earning $500 a month as an attachment student while he was earning $3000 as an IT professional. Was that a fair thing for him to expect of me, to pay $10 for a canned drink in that situation? My point is that there are other factors involved in these situations discussed. On another note, I'm lucky not to have experienced directly sexual discrimination in the workplace, but a perfectly nice boss was comfortable enough with discriminating against females that he told me that I was the last female employee that he would hire, because women change after they become mothers. I quit long before I became a mother, for other reasons. One way I practice feminism by telling my sons that it's ok for anyone to cry and express their emotions.
Agree wth a lot of your points. However, makeup is really largely due to unrealistic beauty standards society places on us. It is up to you to choose that path or not. So why should that be calculated inside the cost of the date? Okay lets say the point is, oh because i need to attract the other partner, then it should be a selfless thing no? You want to gain something and thats the persons liking for you, so you dress up. Secondly, i dont go around charging women for the hair pomade i use or the cetaphil moisturisers needed daily to keep my skin nice and soft, or maybe my cologne and my watch. See how unreasonable that sounds?
Isn’t the issue of gender pay gap less a problem of gender, but rather one of experience? So if you’re measuring pay based on number of years of experience, and seeing if there is a difference due to gender, it is usually quite even. You can’t measure pay in a company by the average pay by gender surely? Such metrics would be benevolent sexism as it there are usually more males that skew the salary scale towards the higher end, which could have been a function a more experience and hard work? (I’m obviously not saying that women are incapable of that, but rather women may in general, be less likely to want to make the trade-offs of family vs career.) The question boils down to equality of opportunity or equality of outcome. Do we want everyone to be afforded the same opportunities, yes! But do we want to force an outcome such that it’s equal? Probably no, as has been proven in Scandinavia that when market forces come to play, different genders choose and want different jobs, careers. Free bump on the algo too. 🤗
if women offer to pay is fake and is a courtesy, then what is the fucking point. pardon my language. do women think that just because you pretend to be something, you are that? NO. pretending to pay does not means you are equal, you are not. and if you don't want to be equal and wants the men to pay more always then say it, because pretending it is useless, you will still behave and demand from him, so there's no fucking point.
This podcast shows how young generation men are so individualistic. Jon say girls should man up and carry the heavy stuff. Who are you to decide for the girl that she should man up? Does it hurt you to offer a helping hand? And you say fk u to girls who ask for help. Aren't we advocating for everyone regardless gender to voice out for help? What's wrong? And for that you think that the girl is using her gender to take advantage. Even so, are you so petty and calculative that such small advantage let the girl win will hurt you? I believe girls should learn to be independent and not take advantage of men, but I don't get why men expect girls to be independent? And when she really is, men complain that their ego got hurt? C'mon make up your mind men. And no I think modern feminism is toxic and is unfair to men. Regardless of gender, why can't everyone not think so much and just be genuinely nicer to willing to help and look out for each other? Case close. Then no need to say oh she's using her gender to her advantage or men saying oh why do we have so much social expectations to meet?
Here's something for you ladies to realize : If you're expecting something from a guy and he doesn't have any sense of chivalry to do considerate/caring gentleman-like gestures, means he's already comfortable with you around him. In modern society now, most guys aren't instinctively programmed to such mannerisms anymore. When men does these things in early phases of relationship, they're either doing it to impress OR it's part of their character. Unless you're truly expecting these traits in a lifelong partner, don't expect too much from them. It's a plus if they do it, it's still a plus if they don't.
At least here in SG semicon/design field, you are compensated according to your rank/pay grade. Race and gender is not a factor rather your "value" is what's important to the company.
I got yelled for carrying something ‘heavy’ at a donation drive before. That person later told me “you’ll break your bones. Just leave it to the boys”. Sometimes guys would keep insisting on carrying things for me until I get annoyed and let them carry. Society is just weird man. I genuinely want to help out even when there is any lifting involved but countless of men and women have stopped me. I assume it’s because I am female and therefore I am biologically weaker…? or maybe because I look too skinny? But I lift weights regularly sometimes 140-200kg but I just biologically can’t bulk up like a man… This is one type of benevolent sexism I really can’t stand lah.
I'm all on board with gender equality. But that gender equality has to work both ways. I feel like some people are just taking advantage of this whole gender equality thing. Too many snowflakes in all genders nowadays.
Movements will always be corrupted to serve an individual’s agenda. It may very well start off with good intentions. eg. Women should be paid the same for same work, that is clear and should be pushed for. But one example like grand slam tennis, why are women paid the same prize money for 3 set tennis whilst guys have to play 5 set tennis? So the men play for 3-5 hours, women play 1-2hours. but gets paid the same. How does that work? On the flipside, women tennis players should be paid fairly in commercial deals aside from tennis tournaments as they may generate the same or higher commercial value depending on their level of success and the brands they represent. But it also goes further than that, how we behave in marriage, in social life etc. Eg. in marriage, my wife is my equal there is no ambiguity in that. actually I feel that she’s superior in every way to me. She doesn’t believe in the feminist movement for one simple fact - marriage is a teamwork. I have my flaws and so does she, we cover for each other’s shortcomings and complement each other. But I won’t put her down, although I’m sure this may not be the case for every marriage/relationship.
Men do have a timeline. Some men experience Andropause (the male equivalent of Menopause). Of course it isn't perfect equivalency but great discussion!
Dan's point at 14:39 is really important. Any policy that prioritises one gender over another is in itself sexism. Also Jon Paul's point about women being more susceptible to sexual crimes is not a sexist opinion; it's a fact. Just like how men are more likely to get involved in serious workplace accidents than women because more men take on such jobs compared to women. It's not a sexist comment, it's backed by data. I hope Denise was joking when she was trying to get Jon Paul to give a justification which he calmly did, thankfully. She seems like a really nice and cool person but I feel for Jon Paul cause he was trying his best to present his views about a very touchy subject but Denise's reactions to his comments may give viewers the impression that he was close-minded. I'm sure she meant it in good fun but oh man.
I feel that John's ball story wasn't meant for the relatable factor but more for the comedy factor so it wasn't any alienation or discrimination in that sense idk
At its root, feminism is about equal rights and opportunities under the law. That's what is more important, and some women may take it too far but are they the majority and is it for issues that actually matter? Sometimes it feels like the anti gender equality (nicer term than feminism) arguments nitpick the flawed approaches to undermine the overall cause. On other points raised - 1) A partnership can also be give and take. There's something elegant, in a classic vintage fairytale way, about chivalry. It doesn't have to undermine the dignity of a woman if she doesn't want it to. In a way, her contribution is putting extra effort in being pretty, elegant, etc. It's almost like role-playing? 2) Isn't reservist also as disruptive as pregnancies? Either way, just because someone can work more days doesn't mean they can do a job better 3) Adoption / freezing eggs are something that can prevent that need to have kids before 35 timeline. Sadly that's not yet legal in Singapore. 4) Some salary differences in other countries, that we have more data on, shows a definite differential treatment. Even among actors (ref: Jennifer Lawrence), female football players (and the US female team is way better and get higher viewership). Yes a lot of it is also how they negotiate - but negotiating is influenced with biases from both parties? Anw, I'm liking this channel more and more, thanks for the good content/topics - it's always good to just start a discussion in a relatable and non-imposing way 😊 (and hi John!)
I'm glad you brought up the point about being left out of conversation. I had no idea what John was talking about when he was mentioning his cousins because he was saying it in Chinese without explaining what it meant. As minorities, because of our experiences, we are conditioned to explain something immediately if we say something in our mother tongue and are in a circle of people who are not from our ethnic make-up because it happens far too often where we are left out of conversations because we do not speak Chinese, be it in school or at work.
Indians do it too, speaking in Tamil when I’m around. So therefore it’s not racist but simply Human to communicate in the language they are comfortable in.
Its better to have a better understanding on how to determine if feminism is getting way out of hand that its becoming toxic and eye rolling irritating. For me its the same concept of respect; that is it should be earned and not given...
This episode reminds me of the time Jon talked about his circumcision on real talk haha and btw the pay gap is a myth if it were true why would a company not just hire all females and pay them less for the same workload. Economics always wins. Please don’t cancel me.
To that last question: yes if you also feel uncomfortable sitting with a bunch of girls talking about the type of blood discharge get they have during their period :)
Paul, i dunno whether you will read this but just wanna say the moment you speak at the beginning, i felt like someone understand me. I am for the equality kind, like women should contribute as well, stop asking us men to do thing just because we can. Like they keep saying women are empowered, as strong as men, yet want us to carry heavy stuff, pay for them, open for them. I even saw a post where a women said "i know how to fix cars, but i should not have to" which means even know she as a women has the ability to fix her own car, it is still the job of a man to do it for her and she as a female should not be needed to do suff "tough work" I was damm angry when i read it, like why if women can do it, they are not obliged to? if the task is really out of your capabilities like, really too heavy for you, fine, a stronger person can help, as I will help any man that is also not strong enough as well. but if a woman can carry the stuff, she should do it, being "tired" is not an excuse. especially is their own stuff that they buy outside. woman, being weaker does not means you have lesser responsibilities.
@@TheDailyKetchupPodcast sorry I'm confused. i was referring to the guy on the left wearing a hat. Am I mistaken? around 2:00 and also in the very beginning saying the example of guy helping to lift heavy stuff. I see from the intro bubble, his name is paul?
With the whole cab thing I feel that it's only fair if a man let's the girl take the first cab that arrives. It's more dangerous for a lady to be standing around late at night rather a man. ( You see more men preying on ladies rather than vice-versa.)
If anyone let anyone else board the first cab, it's a gesture of good will and graciousness, not that it's "only fair". No one owes another individual by default solely by belonging to certain inherent collective group. Also, statistically, while women experience more sexual violence in public, men experience more public violence overall, including more death and grievous injuries.
yes agreed. it's a gesture of graciousness . nobody will fault you for taking the cab first, but she would greatly appreciate it if you let her get in the cab first instead of leaving her to wait alone late at night, because shes more vulnerable to being attacked/receiving unwanted advances. and guess which gender these potential unwanted advances are more likely to be from? what's not fair? the fact that women have been conditioned to be afraid of being alone late at night for fear of being attacked. so if you're a man, let her take the cab first dammit.
I’m a lady. When I graduated, I worked in a male dominated workplace (civil engineering). At first it was subtle, the male boss called me xiao jie, male colleagues opened the door for me etc. later on the boss started asking me to write minutes for our meetings, get bottles of water and prepare the meeting rooms etc. subsequently I became the permanent minutes writer and I had to prepare and stock up water bottles. I doubled up to be admin for a few months as the admin lady left the organisation. This means I have to purchase toiletries, working tools, settle the BOM etc. When it was time for site visit, the boss allowed male colleagues to go site visit but not me. I never did go for a site visit and I felt the opportunities were just not equal in a male dominated environment. I resigned after a year and moved away from the engineering field
I don’t think feminism encompasses all toxic traits that women have. Expecting a guy to carry their stuffs or bags. 🙄 That’s not feminism, that is self entitled brats. The initial movement was to get women out of oppression from men. A classic phrase which was used not long ago was “go in the kitchen and make me a sandwich woman!” Or the case of the Delhi gang rape in 2012, the men were only sentenced to death last year. So what took that so long? Was it because they are men? If y’all listened to what the defence lawyer said, you could really punch him on his face. My take on feminism should be having women to stand on par with men. In terms of social status, work, salary, taking care of the kids. And honestly, I wouldn’t mind serving the nation if it is compulsory for women. Like Israel. I would gladly do it. Stop complaining. If it is not compulsory for men, you guys won’t do it too. So stop blaming on sexism for that. Probably a lot of women is gonna hate me for it. (If they do hate me for this, then they don’t know what the actual meaning of feminism is) In addition, according to UN women, allowing women to work would increase productivities and innovations. And yes you guys are right about men being more logical and women being more emotional. But if we are able to combine these two things together, the world will be much more peaceful as compared to the current state.
Yes, I totally agree. Some Singaporean men are always complaining that women have it easy because we don’t have to serve the army. They’re using it as an all around excuse (as well as the women’s charter) to hate on Singaporean women. I don’t like it as it perpetuates the idea that women are the weaker sex. Like, ok lor! I don’t mind serving NS if it stops this kind of thinking. There is a lot of trade-offs women have to do in a marriage: being the emotional outlet for their partner, shouldering housework and child rearing responsibilities, taking care of old age parents (on both sides!!). To be fair, this tends to occur when to the older generation (parents of millennials and above), i am not sure about the current situation. I don’t think the Women’s Charter will be updated for modern times until the Boomer Generation passes away. Because the laws were meant to protect mothers from that time from certain financial death, as typically it was the female who quit their jobs to become housewives and raise children. Without the WC, there is little to no way for these women to survive upon divorce. Personally, I don’t expect men to pay for first dates as well? I just prefer to go dutch as it means I am on equal ground with guy as I earn a good salary. Unless, if both parties are agreeable to it - if the guy really wants to pay, and the girl accepts it, then there’s no issue.
as a lawyer ur job is to defend ur client although it is not right morally but if he doesn’t protect his client n instead sabotages him the lawyer’s career would be gone 13-15 years of education just flows into the drain worth it idk?
@@fl6294 It's easy to say that you don't mind serving, anyone can do it. At the end of the day, the fact is that you didn't serve. I would say most Singaporean men don't look down on Singaporean women for not serving in the army, but rather it is more common to find Singaporean women telling Singaporean men that serving national service is not a big deal and that it's their rightful duty. The trade-offs you listed that you claim women specifically have to do in marriages doesn't make any sense either. 1. Being the emotional outlet for their partner - Goes both ways, nothing to do with gender 2. Shouldering housework - Goes both ways, if the woman has to do all the housework then the work is not properly divided or the relationship might be toxic 3. Child rearing responsibilities - First off, why would you say 'child rearing' instead of 'parenting'? That is kind of weird. Back to topic, parenting responsibilities should involve both parents, not just the mother, unless you're talking about biological responsibilities like breast-feeding. 4. Taking care of old age parents - How is this even gender-related again? Most of these trade-offs that you mention are the old traditional way of thinking. In this modern day and age, I don't see any logical reasoning as to why these beliefs should remain. You sound like a Singaporean woman who is facing these issues in your personal life, and then chose to project your problems online in a way that is severely out of context.
@@Purmeiwansuay I did not mention anything about not defending your clients. I did not study law but I do know that a person is not guilty until he/she is plead guilty. And even criminal has the right to defence themselves. But the evidence or moral reasoning that he pulled out was plain dumb. If you have watch the doc then you will understand what I’m saying. He mentioned that the girl was luring men to rape her because she was wearing jeans. My issue here is what took them so long to come out with the verdict? Was it because some bills with regards to raping crime were not passed correctly?
@@diana.b1059 Your whole paragraph on our country's national service is extremely hard to swallow. I would say if that's your version of feminism then it's not right either.
Respect go both ways. I still think woman does still need a man. But is all about the respect. And I think feminism is damn unfair, it’s only their advantage but they expect guys to hold their bags but they’re independent woman. What even?
If men and women do a job equally well but women are cheaper to hire, wouldnt companies want to hire more women to keep the cost low? LOL dont cancel just a thought.
I mean men typical are willing to go for a job that have higher risk and higher reward but women typically go with lower risk and easy reward so chances of finding a women that is willing to work a job that have high risk is hard.
It is the basis that they do not think women bring of equal value as compared to men and that is why they are paid less. They aren't paid lesser because they are a women, they are paid lesser because they value women less than. In that case, it would be similar to hiring a fresh grad (paid lesser) or a person with 5 years experience (paid more). They could hire more fresh grads to keep cost low, but it requires time and effort to train them and therefore, they rather hire experienced workers.
@@potatorrancis7986 Is there actual wage discrimination though? Last time a hoo haa was brought out over a survey where woman was paid less, it was mainly down to lifestyle choices aka man picking dirtier( garbage collector), riskier( offshore drilling) and more scarifical( truckers) jobs. Brackets are just some examples. A more recent example was the US soccer woman courtcase. They were paid a rountine salary and wanted additionally the men pay package but without taking the downside risk of no income. If there is actual wage discrimination aka women are paid less for the same role and performance than men, then yes it shld be acted on but most of the time that is not the case.
the "paid differently" argument is so ignorant. people don't account for: 1. degree's held 2. job experience 3. danger of job 4. type of job 5. hours worked 6. time taken off 7. overtime reality is top paying jobs/industries are usually male dominated - Science, tech, engineering, math. lowest paying jobs/industries are usually female dominated - social work, teaching, nursing, etc. if denise is comparing exactly the same job and role, then please refer to one of the other factors mentioned above like for e.g. job experience, more time taken off, less overtime work done, etc. These can stem from being a female such as being a mother, where you need time off to look after kids. but that's because of gender roles. but it's simply not that women are being paid less than men for the same role just because men has a dick and balls.
Although I like the openness of where this conversation is going, I do wish there's consideration for those who identifies as non-binary or are in the LGBTQ+ community
Can’t relate to the Topic as I am a Caveman. My biological Job is VERY strightforward. It is to satisfy and protect My hareem who in turn will Produce My offsprings. Women are extremly important if not, whose gonna make me sandwiches and fan me when the weather is Hot. Have you ever seen a Group of lioness argue with their Lion on who does the chores and Call the shots?! No and Thats that…
Dan's example of the women and men in workforce with the context of pregnancy really enforces the idea that being born a women really sucks in terms of biology 🥲 (emphasizing on biologically ya) anyways good convo overall!
![[Limbus Company - PV] Chapter.7 - Oblivion](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VUpkXPkvoxU/mqdefault.jpg)
I LOL'D so hard at 5:26 when Denise showed her bounce 🤣🤣🤣
also, I'm not usually a commenter but I've left a few comments now ever since I started watching this podcast. I have to say it's awesome that you guys talk about the hard, complicated topics of our generation.
Like Daniel, you're more of the facts guy. John is more of the one that speaks bluntly but in a non-provoking way.
Jon Paul, you definitely like to push the line a bit despite of possible repercussions/reactions be it good or bad. And Denise, you bring a more level-headed argument and opinion that adds to the overall quality of the topic. I've said this before and I'll say it again, but pls pls pls upload more often 😣 I'm sure it's not easy filming and finding topics to discuss while maintaining a certain level of quality but so far, I can honestly say I've not found a single boring or unentertaining video. So keep it coming guys💯💯
Ps: I'm a girl but the little Segway of u guys talking about ur balls was freaking funny, maybe it's cuz I have 2 brothers that I lowkey understand ur pain despite it not being biologically possible 🤣🤣
I was taught that feminism is not just about equality for women and hating men. It is about examining the roles of each gender, ending gender discrimination, hence bringing about a society that treats both women and men equally.
There are several thoughts of feminism, just that the radical and controversial ones tend to be in the limelight.
Fake feminists only want the best for women and never caring about men issues. Feminists are people who dont only campain for womens rights, which i support, but also campaign for men to be heard.
This podcast ignites my dislike of being born a female simply because we are on the shorter end biologically.
1. Monthly menstruation
2. Pregnancy
3. Childbirth labour
4. Post-natal depression
5. Breastfeeding (leaking boobs, infections, getting up at odd hours and so on)
6. Body shape changes permanently including pelvic widening
7. Hormones gone havoc (not just during pregnancy or menstruation but also menopause, it NEVER ends!)
8. Increased risk of osteoporosis, hair fall, diabetes, high blood pressure due to pregnancy
9. Down time after giving birth
10. Lost opportunities in the workplace either due to maternity or physically weaker than males (as in jobs that require body strength)
11. Higher chances of being molested (simply because we have both breasts and genital parts that are considered 'private')
12. Cannot go topless even when it is freaking hot and humid
13. Need to train hard on self-defence if there's any chance for us to physically overcome a male's attack
14. Possesses a genital part that's a hole instead of a pole (imagine being poked and beaten rather than the one doing the poking and beating)
15. In cases of rapes that result in pregnancy, females are the ones who live with the long-term problem
Other points that are unrelated to biology issues:
16. "Marrying into" the males' household and changing surnames
17. Children often call out for their mommy, rarely their daddy so guess who needs to constantly make themselves available?
18. Divorced women are often seen as "used goods"
19. Unmarried women past a certain age are known as "obsolete goods"
20. Women that are vocal and independent are known as "pushy, bossy, bitchy"
The list could go on and though we may strive to change society's perception of points #16 - #20, we cannot deny the *facts* for points #1 - #15 (except maybe #12).
I totally agree..believe there must be more education to open people’s minds and hearts on the inherent trade-offs females must make simply for our gender. It must be an open conversation or else I don’t see the point of pushing information vomit unless they are willing to listen (ahem, jon paul).
One thing I would like to add on to your list is that in sexual harassment cases, it’s the females who get affected way more. Our sexual harassment laws seem appalling as offenders get away so lightly! Look at what happened to Monica Baey, Bellywellyjelly etc. The societal and emotional impact affected the females way more!
To be fair, I must advocate that there must be more conversation on the real discrimination that males face as well. E.g. Males cannot be emotionally vulnerable, males do get sexually harassed but it’s not taken seriously leading to underreporting and repression.
Both genders should work together for a more inclusive society.
oh my god this is the best episode and best podcast ive ever watched. Dan you really dodged so many bullets this one episode you make the matrix look like nothing sia HAHAHA AND ALL THE STORIES WERE HILARIOUS I CANNOT STOP LAUGHING KEEP IT UP GUYS. it was an amazingly insightful discussions and i really hope you keep this up because you are delivering something that is so unique to media right now. JIAYOUS!
Love Daniel’s commentary, it’s a factual and balanced view. Jon Paul is slightly aggressive with his tone, like he’s very defensive and not willing to hear the others out. My two cents!
There are a few interesting things I found out too!
1) the cab situation - apparently in some other "not so safe" country, it is better for men to get in the cab first. (maybe the wiggle in portion plays a part as well as y'all mention) It's because there are cases where the women went in, closed the door, and before the men can get in the cab, the driver drives off without the men, putting the women in a dangerous situation.
2) I remember seeing the ns post somewhere - On a broader view, women can service NS, because the purpose of going for ns is to serve the nation (It is National Service, not Protection Service). One good way to serve the nation can be about providing services such as healthcare services, environmental services, mental health services etc (doesn't always have to be protecting the nation with weapons)
3) As for the last case mentioned (being alienated) - (Personal view on this, do not blast me) I think it is not alienated if Dennis wanna know about it, and the men explained to Dennis as best as they could (likewise, if Dennis asked questions and the men just replied with, aiya, you don't know one, you are not men, then yes, I think that is being alienated). The same goes for Chinese speaking in Mandarin in front of a Malay friend, as long as we are trying to be inclusive, I think it is fine. (And it never hurts to try and understand the other party more right?) With explanations and exposure to a different perspective/feel/jokes/culture, it can potentially turn into a good outcome in the end, right?
Don't have to accept, just stay open-minded and have empathy :)
A chivalrous man, a large part of what women are talking about is finding someone who will show them respect. Holding open a door, paying for the first date, and making sure you get home safely are kind and respectful acts. And isn’t respect something we all want?
When you give respect, the right woman will give it back to you. Respect is an integral part of any relationship. When you use respect to set the tone early on in a relationship, you are more likely to build a foundation that is based on trust and intimacy.
Chivalry is not dead, it has simply progressed.
Treat the woman around you the way you would your Mum. You love and respect her and you wouldn’t want someone else treating her any different.
So You are saying you will treat every man like you would your father? So you would cook for him, act demure, never ague, quit your job to take care of kids. You do noe that stereotypes go both ways right. if you beholden men to old ways, cant we expect the same for women?
When you give respect, the right man will give it back to you. Respect is an integral part of any relationship. When you use respect to set the tone early on in a relationship, you are more likely to build a foundation that is based on trust and intimacy.
Treat the man around you the way you would your Dad. You love and respect her and you wouldn’t want someone else treating him any different.
Respect is earned. It is not by default given.
@@Yami0to0hikari Whahaaahahahahha!!!!
@@Yami0to0hikari well, I dont cook or do any of those things for my dad so yeah🤷 You're missing the point completely. This commenter is saying they way we show respect has changed. Being considerate of the women during her period, paying her equally in the workforce, not dismissing her concerns are also showing respect just as much as holding the door or letting her get in the car first.
Honestly it's kinda pointless to debate all these because (in singapore at least) there are so many people brought up on different social norms, hence what actions are seen as respectful differs person from person. One may feel like you're looking down on her ability to earn by insisting to pay on the first date, another may feel like you're a self-centred calculating cheapskate who doesnt care about their guests if you don't insist to pay on the first date.
@@JLDREAMS I don't cook or do any of those things for my dad too (technically what he says is not really true too, at least in SG, and if I treat all men like how I treat my father... they are all gonna say "you are such a princess")
Anyway, I'm just here to say, I agree that respectful differed person to person. Just genuinely ask and understand the person you are interacting with and react accordingly if you want to continue a relationship (not just love) with the person :)
Feminism is pushing for equality between men and women. If we assume that we are equal, why is the burden of opening the door/paying for the first date/priority to get females home first on the burden of the man? You are disguising this inequality behind "respect". The three actions you have listed literally goes against what feminism (in its purest form) stands for.
Respect does not necessarily come in the forms you have mentioned. Those are literally three forms that benefit and privilege women over men. The third point is contestable if you believe that men and women are biologically different and thus women are more prone to assault than men (which i believe). However, you may want to note that while women experience more sexual assault, men face overwhelmingly more assault and violent crimes.
The problem with modern day feminism is that females will claim they are feminists but only when it is in their interests. They scream inequality when they are disadvantaged (and rightfully so, i believe in equality of opportunity between men and women). However, they fail to acknowledge their privileges and recognise that men TOO have their own unique problems.
Would I treat a random female the same as my mother? Of course not. I would treat the female with the decorum as every individual should be treated. Howver, i would not treat her like how I would treat my family member, my kin. If i pose the same question back to you: Would you treat every man like your father?
I love this series so far! A little bit of serious issues and a whole lot of humour.
Guys, it's a podcast, each episode shouldn't be this short!!!
Jokes aside, I enjoy this podcast so so much. All of the podcast members bring so much to the table. I'm sure Dan tried to be reserved because cancel culture is so prevalent, but for open-minded listeners, it's so refreshing to hear these thought-provoking and honest discussions. Please don't be discouraged!
Denise is my absolute favorite. I love how level-headed she is. and John C is such a rational and reasonable person.
John P gets some criticism for being firm on this views but I actually enjoy his risky questions a lot and his daringness to play "devil's advocate" for good reasons. Podcast wouldn't be the same without his views.
Keep it up guys!
This needs to be like an hour
omg pls have a part 2 follow ups of your videos! they are so interesting and sometimes one video ends and the conversation it’s just left hanging there :(
all this convo on balls being damaged has me touching my region rather uncomfortably throughout this video LOL
A missed opportunity to discuss some of our gender-specific laws and policies such as corporal punishment, sexual offences and modesty laws, spousal maintenance, gendered grooming standards etc.
On the subject of wage disparity, the adjusted gap is 6% in 2020. However, it is worth noting that several key factors were not accounted for. Some of them are work experience, job performance, types of firm etc. Although the study did factored work hours, it did not consider the fact that men generally work more overtime, and working overtime have a positive correlation with progression and renumeration. Men are generally more likely to respond to work issues after working hours, more likely to be willing to travel, more likely to proactively ask for and negotiate harder for a raise, less likely to job hop, less likely to request for flexible work arrangement, less likely to go on hiatus. In some companies, men are typically given a higher starting salary by virtue of completing full-time NS.
Daniel made a lot of sense. Props to Jon Paul for mentioning Dr Jordan Peterson. He's quite a controversial guy around leftist circles. But his pov are backed up by science and research
basically today's women blackmailing men in the name of gender equality.
Omg you guys are like the best 3am conversationists. Can I be on the panel one day?
I like how everyone was trying to be a bit PC, knowing how sensitive this topic is. Discussions about gender issues shouldn't be difficult for people of any specific gender!
Also, an interesting point that I learnt from school is that benevolent sexism against men is labelled "benevolence towards men" and not "benevolent sexism". Food for thought...
DAILY KETCHUP TO 100K SUBS
I've seen my fair share of man pretending not being able to move furniture or carry some heavier stuff when I am half their size and age during an office move and they skive away doing the "lighter" jobs there is.
Are we able to talk about "Chinese Privilege" is that really a thing in SG?
I think it will be an interesting topic, but it will probably be better if they can invite one off guest who are not Chinese to give their views here too!
I think this conversation would be best had with non-chinese guests taking part in the conversation.
Nah, it’s made up. More like wealth previledge.
It's essentially a decision tree. Pick what is logical and aligned to your preferences.
For example, if you dislike girls who feel entitled to free meals, stick to this opinion, ie. if the girl offers to pay, let her do so. If she was genuine about it, great! If not, you know that you want out anyway, right? It shouldn't be complicated. Unless you're all about impressing the girl and hence are affected by having to 'mind-read', to which I'll say - this will never work anyway, it's a terrible strategy for managing any sort of relationship in the first place. Mind-readers complicate everything but blame others for everything.
Totally agree with JP about the cab scenario. It really does make more sense to let the girl get into the cab first, unless she adamantly refuses. Then just respect her wishes, I guess. And text her after to keep your own worries at bay, haha.
For scenarios where you 'feel bad' on your own even though the girl didn't voice out anything - why? The issue lies with the person overthinking it. Most people don't enjoy feeling cold, but many people also dislike inconveniencing others and a good number take responsibility for their own mistakes. She does feel cold, yes. But she's not asking you for a jacket - don't overthink it. Take it as her being on the same page as you about it being her own fault for not bringing one. Why feel bad? You're on the same page.
If you feel bad FOR her, as in you hate to see her suffer, then offering your jacket up will not make you feel bad, but rather, glad, that you could solve the problem. Feeling bad WHILE offering the jacket is an ego problem - you don't want to do it, but you feel even worse abut potentially looking bad. So this is something you should solve on your own, since the issue lies with you. Is it possible that the girl wants you to do it without her saying anything? Of course. So why would you feed such toxic mindsets by playing right into their hands? Don't do it.
Perhaps the team could have prepared a bit more by reading up on sociology of genders and sexes. The things we consume and reproduce are not completely intuitive to dismiss differences as being “built this way”.
Surely sex and gender are rooted in biology, but a lot of ideals and expectations are constructed by society that each male / female child is brought up in. Maybe what we can grow towards as a society is to balance out gender-based information consumption (media, education, stories, opportunities, etc). A great start is like coding being a common school subject for all children.
These feminists only choose and pick. More people need to check out jordan peterson's arguments around feminism. His thoughts are amazing!
Do these ppl even assume blame or take responsibility for their actions?
Yeah true. 'You can't have your cake and eat it too'. The sooner we learn this, the better. I also feel the radical version of postmodernist feminism actually downplays the wonderful gift of motherhood. Being able to bring new life to this world is possibly one of the most amazing things any human being can achieve, and that's why we love our mothers so much.
When my boyfriend cold, I give him my jacket how?
you are his boyfriend now.
if we can solve the age-old question of "why do local men carry their girlfriends' matchbox-sized bags with much aplomb?", we can solve sexism 😂
actually, my guy friends or me will just walk to the other side of the cab and we'll open door for ourselves and get in at the same time.. no one has to scoot in or worry about driver driving off before the guy gets in and etc!
and honestly i think there's also alot of discrimination for male genders on certain jobs! i've often see my male friends get rejected from jobs just because the recruiters preferred females!
Yall are confusing equality with equity
Every episode i'm looking out for what Jon paul and Daniel is wearing on their wrist. Great watches!
There's a new show coming out soon on FX based on a graphic novel called Y: The Last Man. Very interesting premise where all the men in the world die and what happens after
I feel like this was a great topic but wasn't discussed enough in the podcast. If only it could be discussed deeper.
My bf and I always watch your vids and have our own discussions!!
Dan!! Pls do your iconic " THIS IS YOUR DAILYYY KETCHUP!"
About what they were discussing around the 20 min mark, I think part of the reason why industries such as engineering are male dominated is because they of way it is perceived/ packaged (it's not all about calculations and computers). All kinds of technically competent people are needed in engineering regardless of whether their thinking is focused on people or things. There has been a lot of focus for a while on human centred design, also engineers often work in teams and it helps to have a more diverse team (in terms of gender, race, background, ...) to perform well because it means having different ideas/ inputs when it comes to coming up with solutions. The industry is constantly changing and companies need to keep to up with it so having 'females in STEM' initiatives is a way of keeping up with the change (by trying fill up the demand) rather than 'giving chance' to them or benevolent sexism - a different perspective, though I'm not sure about other industries, I can only speak about engineering since it's the only one I've been exposed to. I'm not too sure about the pay gap either but the 'barriers' that Denise spoke about can also exist in the form of discrimination, prejudices, and ways that are less obvious. Those actions are important to make the workplace more inclusive so that minority genders won't have those barriers when entering into those industries. Anyways, great episode!
is it sexist to make IPPT easier for female? (easier as in, they require less reps or longer 2.4 time to achieve same points as a male)
The obvious answer : YES
but of course no one will mention it.
I would say, yes and no. As women are biologically not stronger than men. So it will be harder for them to get the same scores, I am talking generally. I would say to make it levrl, by Ig using averages and using that to get a certain standard that is different, so eg. 10 minutes for a guy is 11 minutes to a women on average with the same fitness, then that will be better
That intro was hella funny
Being a gentlemen is not sexism, it's manners and courteous from how the person was raised. Its just being nice LOL
Waiting for megan to say this video is ultra misogynistic pro max. hahahaha
I used to buy into the idea that it's fine for women to pay on a date. But then there needs to be the understanding that women usually take much more effort to get ready for the date than a man. Using /buying /choosing the right makeup, clothes etc. How to quantify that? And since the added risk of molestation was mentioned in this video, what about the added risk for a woman to be on a date at all? I've encountered situations where I have been sexually assaulted - both with men I thought I knew well and with people I barely knew, both before and after marriage (said men were aware I was married and I didn't intend to date them, we simply met up as friends).
How do we compensate for that risk?
Another factor is who chooses the date location, and maybe even that pay gap. I was in a relationship with guy who always chose to visit expensive bars, but I am allergic to alcohol. After 6 months of paying for me he told me he wanted to go Dutch. We did, but looking back at that situation, I was earning $500 a month as an attachment student while he was earning $3000 as an IT professional. Was that a fair thing for him to expect of me, to pay $10 for a canned drink in that situation?
My point is that there are other factors involved in these situations discussed.
On another note, I'm lucky not to have experienced directly sexual discrimination in the workplace, but a perfectly nice boss was comfortable enough with discriminating against females that he told me that I was the last female employee that he would hire, because women change after they become mothers.
I quit long before I became a mother, for other reasons.
One way I practice feminism by telling my sons that it's ok for anyone to cry and express their emotions.
Agree wth a lot of your points. However, makeup is really largely due to unrealistic beauty standards society places on us. It is up to you to choose that path or not. So why should that be calculated inside the cost of the date? Okay lets say the point is, oh because i need to attract the other partner, then it should be a selfless thing no? You want to gain something and thats the persons liking for you, so you dress up. Secondly, i dont go around charging women for the hair pomade i use or the cetaphil moisturisers needed daily to keep my skin nice and soft, or maybe my cologne and my watch. See how unreasonable that sounds?
Isn’t the issue of gender pay gap less a problem of gender, but rather one of experience? So if you’re measuring pay based on number of years of experience, and seeing if there is a difference due to gender, it is usually quite even.
You can’t measure pay in a company by the average pay by gender surely? Such metrics would be benevolent sexism as it there are usually more males that skew the salary scale towards the higher end, which could have been a function a more experience and hard work? (I’m obviously not saying that women are incapable of that, but rather women may in general, be less likely to want to make the trade-offs of family vs career.)
The question boils down to equality of opportunity or equality of outcome. Do we want everyone to be afforded the same opportunities, yes! But do we want to force an outcome such that it’s equal? Probably no, as has been proven in Scandinavia that when market forces come to play, different genders choose and want different jobs, careers.
Free bump on the algo too. 🤗
if women offer to pay is fake and is a courtesy, then what is the fucking point. pardon my language. do women think that just because you pretend to be something, you are that? NO.
pretending to pay does not means you are equal, you are not. and if you don't want to be equal and wants the men to pay more always then say it, because pretending it is useless, you will still behave and demand from him, so there's no fucking point.
This podcast shows how young generation men are so individualistic. Jon say girls should man up and carry the heavy stuff. Who are you to decide for the girl that she should man up? Does it hurt you to offer a helping hand?
And you say fk u to girls who ask for help. Aren't we advocating for everyone regardless gender to voice out for help? What's wrong? And for that you think that the girl is using her gender to take advantage.
Even so, are you so petty and calculative that such small advantage let the girl win will hurt you?
I believe girls should learn to be independent and not take advantage of men, but I don't get why men expect girls to be independent? And when she really is, men complain that their ego got hurt? C'mon make up your mind men. And no I think modern feminism is toxic and is unfair to men.
Regardless of gender, why can't everyone not think so much and just be genuinely nicer to willing to help and look out for each other? Case close. Then no need to say oh she's using her gender to her advantage or men saying oh why do we have so much social expectations to meet?
Here's something for you ladies to realize : If you're expecting something from a guy and he doesn't have any sense of chivalry to do considerate/caring gentleman-like gestures, means he's already comfortable with you around him. In modern society now, most guys aren't instinctively programmed to such mannerisms anymore. When men does these things in early phases of relationship, they're either doing it to impress OR it's part of their character. Unless you're truly expecting these traits in a lifelong partner, don't expect too much from them. It's a plus if they do it, it's still a plus if they don't.
At least here in SG semicon/design field, you are compensated according to your rank/pay grade. Race and gender is not a factor rather your "value" is what's important to the company.
Yeah
I’m fine with the ideal of equality but I’m also a firm supporter of gender assigned roles based on physiology and gender aptitudes.
I got yelled for carrying something ‘heavy’ at a donation drive before. That person later told me “you’ll break your bones. Just leave it to the boys”. Sometimes guys would keep insisting on carrying things for me until I get annoyed and let them carry. Society is just weird man. I genuinely want to help out even when there is any lifting involved but countless of men and women have stopped me. I assume it’s because I am female and therefore I am biologically weaker…? or maybe because I look too skinny? But I lift weights regularly sometimes 140-200kg but I just biologically can’t bulk up like a man… This is one type of benevolent sexism I really can’t stand lah.
I'm all on board with gender equality. But that gender equality has to work both ways. I feel like some people are just taking advantage of this whole gender equality thing. Too many snowflakes in all genders nowadays.
"Men must do this and that"
Women deserve this and that"
That's why people remain Single
Movements will always be corrupted to serve an individual’s agenda. It may very well start off with good intentions. eg. Women should be paid the same for same work, that is clear and should be pushed for. But one example like grand slam tennis, why are women paid the same prize money for 3 set tennis whilst guys have to play 5 set tennis? So the men play for 3-5 hours, women play 1-2hours. but gets paid the same. How does that work?
On the flipside, women tennis players should be paid fairly in commercial deals aside from tennis tournaments as they may generate the same or higher commercial value depending on their level of success and the brands they represent.
But it also goes further than that, how we behave in marriage, in social life etc. Eg. in marriage, my wife is my equal there is no ambiguity in that. actually I feel that she’s superior in every way to me. She doesn’t believe in the feminist movement for one simple fact - marriage is a teamwork. I have my flaws and so does she, we cover for each other’s shortcomings and complement each other. But I won’t put her down, although I’m sure this may not be the case for every marriage/relationship.
Yall didnt define feminism before the start of the discussion
'series of holes' triggered my non-existent trypophobia
great podcast as always!
Men do have a timeline. Some men experience Andropause (the male equivalent of Menopause). Of course it isn't perfect equivalency but great discussion!
Come on, just let the ladies do NS too. It promotes gender equality. Women can do what men can do, and even better.
Dan's point at 14:39 is really important. Any policy that prioritises one gender over another is in itself sexism. Also Jon Paul's point about women being more susceptible to sexual crimes is not a sexist opinion; it's a fact. Just like how men are more likely to get involved in serious workplace accidents than women because more men take on such jobs compared to women. It's not a sexist comment, it's backed by data. I hope Denise was joking when she was trying to get Jon Paul to give a justification which he calmly did, thankfully. She seems like a really nice and cool person but I feel for Jon Paul cause he was trying his best to present his views about a very touchy subject but Denise's reactions to his comments may give viewers the impression that he was close-minded. I'm sure she meant it in good fun but oh man.
i wish they invited a sociologist to discuss this with them
oh do you mean SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR?
I feel that John's ball story wasn't meant for the relatable factor but more for the comedy factor so it wasn't any alienation or discrimination in that sense idk
At its root, feminism is about equal rights and opportunities under the law. That's what is more important, and some women may take it too far but are they the majority and is it for issues that actually matter?
Sometimes it feels like the anti gender equality (nicer term than feminism) arguments nitpick the flawed approaches to undermine the overall cause.
On other points raised -
1) A partnership can also be give and take. There's something elegant, in a classic vintage fairytale way, about chivalry. It doesn't have to undermine the dignity of a woman if she doesn't want it to. In a way, her contribution is putting extra effort in being pretty, elegant, etc. It's almost like role-playing?
2) Isn't reservist also as disruptive as pregnancies?
Either way, just because someone can work more days doesn't mean they can do a job better
3) Adoption / freezing eggs are something that can prevent that need to have kids before 35 timeline. Sadly that's not yet legal in Singapore.
4) Some salary differences in other countries, that we have more data on, shows a definite differential treatment. Even among actors (ref: Jennifer Lawrence), female football players (and the US female team is way better and get higher viewership). Yes a lot of it is also how they negotiate - but negotiating is influenced with biases from both parties?
Anw, I'm liking this channel more and more, thanks for the good content/topics - it's always good to just start a discussion in a relatable and non-imposing way 😊 (and hi John!)
These 4 guys show are best in sg . 🤘
I'm glad you brought up the point about being left out of conversation. I had no idea what John was talking about when he was mentioning his cousins because he was saying it in Chinese without explaining what it meant. As minorities, because of our experiences, we are conditioned to explain something immediately if we say something in our mother tongue and are in a circle of people who are not from our ethnic make-up because it happens far too often where we are left out of conversations because we do not speak Chinese, be it in school or at work.
Indians do it too, speaking in Tamil when I’m around. So therefore it’s not racist but simply Human to communicate in the language they are comfortable in.
wake me up when it is mandatory for women to serve NS
Its better to have a better understanding on how to determine if feminism is getting way out of hand that its becoming toxic and eye rolling irritating. For me its the same concept of respect; that is it should be earned and not given...
What's your timeline ? What's your timeline.... I don't wanna rush you ah~
This episode reminds me of the time Jon talked about his circumcision on real talk haha and btw the pay gap is a myth if it were true why would a company not just hire all females and pay them less for the same workload. Economics always wins. Please don’t cancel me.
economics dun win... relationship like ktv buddies do.
7:20 RIP Jon Paul
EVERY GUY ADJUSTED THEIR SHORTS WHEN WE HEARD ABOUT THE GUY LOSING HIS NUT!!
Here for more balls convo lol
To that last question: yes if you also feel uncomfortable sitting with a bunch of girls talking about the type of blood discharge get they have during their period :)
Paul, i dunno whether you will read this but just wanna say the moment you speak at the beginning, i felt like someone understand me. I am for the equality kind, like women should contribute as well, stop asking us men to do thing just because we can.
Like they keep saying women are empowered, as strong as men, yet want us to carry heavy stuff, pay for them, open for them. I even saw a post where a women said "i know how to fix cars, but i should not have to" which means even know she as a women has the ability to fix her own car, it is still the job of a man to do it for her and she as a female should not be needed to do suff "tough work"
I was damm angry when i read it, like why if women can do it, they are not obliged to? if the task is really out of your capabilities like, really too heavy for you, fine, a stronger person can help, as I will help any man that is also not strong enough as well. but if a woman can carry the stuff, she should do it, being "tired" is not an excuse. especially is their own stuff that they buy outside.
woman, being weaker does not means you have lesser responsibilities.
I am not Paul
@@TheDailyKetchupPodcast sorry I'm confused. i was referring to the guy on the left wearing a hat. Am I mistaken? around 2:00 and also in the very beginning saying the example of guy helping to lift heavy stuff. I see from the intro bubble, his name is paul?
@@TheDailyKetchupPodcast correct leh, he is paul what?
With the whole cab thing I feel that it's only fair if a man let's the girl take the first cab that arrives. It's more dangerous for a lady to be standing around late at night rather a man. ( You see more men preying on ladies rather than vice-versa.)
If anyone let anyone else board the first cab, it's a gesture of good will and graciousness, not that it's "only fair". No one owes another individual by default solely by belonging to certain inherent collective group.
Also, statistically, while women experience more sexual violence in public, men experience more public violence overall, including more death and grievous injuries.
yes agreed. it's a gesture of graciousness . nobody will fault you for taking the cab first, but she would greatly appreciate it if you let her get in the cab first instead of leaving her to wait alone late at night, because shes more vulnerable to being attacked/receiving unwanted advances.
and guess which gender these potential unwanted advances are more likely to be from?
what's not fair? the fact that women have been conditioned to be afraid of being alone late at night for fear of being attacked.
so if you're a man, let her take the cab first dammit.
Hi John!
HI
you guys should see fresh and fit RUclips podcast, they help men stay woke!!
Open door for girl cus gentleman but she then says I think that she’s too weak to even open her own door. 10/10
I’m a lady. When I graduated, I worked in a male dominated workplace (civil engineering). At first it was subtle, the male boss called me xiao jie, male colleagues opened the door for me etc. later on the boss started asking me to write minutes for our meetings, get bottles of water and prepare the meeting rooms etc. subsequently I became the permanent minutes writer and I had to prepare and stock up water bottles. I doubled up to be admin for a few months as the admin lady left the organisation. This means I have to purchase toiletries, working tools, settle the BOM etc. When it was time for site visit, the boss allowed male colleagues to go site visit but not me. I never did go for a site visit and I felt the opportunities were just not equal in a male dominated environment. I resigned after a year and moved away from the engineering field
I don’t think feminism encompasses all toxic traits that women have. Expecting a guy to carry their stuffs or bags. 🙄 That’s not feminism, that is self entitled brats.
The initial movement was to get women out of oppression from men. A classic phrase which was used not long ago was “go in the kitchen and make me a sandwich woman!” Or the case of the Delhi gang rape in 2012, the men were only sentenced to death last year. So what took that so long? Was it because they are men? If y’all listened to what the defence lawyer said, you could really punch him on his face.
My take on feminism should be having women to stand on par with men. In terms of social status, work, salary, taking care of the kids. And honestly, I wouldn’t mind serving the nation if it is compulsory for women. Like Israel. I would gladly do it. Stop complaining. If it is not compulsory for men, you guys won’t do it too. So stop blaming on sexism for that. Probably a lot of women is gonna hate me for it. (If they do hate me for this, then they don’t know what the actual meaning of feminism is)
In addition, according to UN women, allowing women to work would increase productivities and innovations. And yes you guys are right about men being more logical and women being more emotional. But if we are able to combine these two things together, the world will be much more peaceful as compared to the current state.
Yes, I totally agree. Some Singaporean men are always complaining that women have it easy because we don’t have to serve the army. They’re using it as an all around excuse (as well as the women’s charter) to hate on Singaporean women.
I don’t like it as it perpetuates the idea that women are the weaker sex. Like, ok lor! I don’t mind serving NS if it stops this kind of thinking.
There is a lot of trade-offs women have to do in a marriage: being the emotional outlet for their partner, shouldering housework and child rearing responsibilities, taking care of old age parents (on both sides!!).
To be fair, this tends to occur when to the older generation (parents of millennials and above), i am not sure about the current situation.
I don’t think the Women’s Charter will be updated for modern times until the Boomer Generation passes away. Because the laws were meant to protect mothers from that time from certain financial death, as typically it was the female who quit their jobs to become housewives and raise children. Without the WC, there is little to no way for these women to survive upon divorce.
Personally, I don’t expect men to pay for first dates as well? I just prefer to go dutch as it means I am on equal ground with guy as I earn a good salary. Unless, if both parties are agreeable to it - if the guy really wants to pay, and the girl accepts it, then there’s no issue.
as a lawyer ur job is to defend ur client although it is not right morally but if he doesn’t protect his client n instead sabotages him the lawyer’s career would be gone 13-15 years of education just flows into the drain worth it idk?
@@fl6294 It's easy to say that you don't mind serving, anyone can do it. At the end of the day, the fact is that you didn't serve. I would say most Singaporean men don't look down on Singaporean women for not serving in the army, but rather it is more common to find Singaporean women telling Singaporean men that serving national service is not a big deal and that it's their rightful duty.
The trade-offs you listed that you claim women specifically have to do in marriages doesn't make any sense either.
1. Being the emotional outlet for their partner - Goes both ways, nothing to do with gender
2. Shouldering housework - Goes both ways, if the woman has to do all the housework then the work is not properly divided or the relationship might be toxic
3. Child rearing responsibilities - First off, why would you say 'child rearing' instead of 'parenting'? That is kind of weird. Back to topic, parenting responsibilities should involve both parents, not just the mother, unless you're talking about biological responsibilities like breast-feeding.
4. Taking care of old age parents - How is this even gender-related again?
Most of these trade-offs that you mention are the old traditional way of thinking. In this modern day and age, I don't see any logical reasoning as to why these beliefs should remain.
You sound like a Singaporean woman who is facing these issues in your personal life, and then chose to project your problems online in a way that is severely out of context.
@@Purmeiwansuay I did not mention anything about not defending your clients. I did not study law but I do know that a person is not guilty until he/she is plead guilty. And even criminal has the right to defence themselves. But the evidence or moral reasoning that he pulled out was plain dumb. If you have watch the doc then you will understand what I’m saying. He mentioned that the girl was luring men to rape her because she was wearing jeans. My issue here is what took them so long to come out with the verdict? Was it because some bills with regards to raping crime were not passed correctly?
@@diana.b1059 Your whole paragraph on our country's national service is extremely hard to swallow. I would say if that's your version of feminism then it's not right either.
Not really, Singapore still haven’t gone full woke yet 😂
I hope not. Fucking hell.
Respect go both ways. I still think woman does still need a man. But is all about the respect. And I think feminism is damn unfair, it’s only their advantage but they expect guys to hold their bags but they’re independent woman. What even?
21:21 interesting
If men and women do a job equally well but women are cheaper to hire, wouldnt companies want to hire more women to keep the cost low? LOL dont cancel just a thought.
I mean men typical are willing to go for a job that have higher risk and higher reward but women typically go with lower risk and easy reward so chances of finding a women that is willing to work a job that have high risk is hard.
It is the basis that they do not think women bring of equal value as compared to men and that is why they are paid less. They aren't paid lesser because they are a women, they are paid lesser because they value women less than. In that case, it would be similar to hiring a fresh grad (paid lesser) or a person with 5 years experience (paid more). They could hire more fresh grads to keep cost low, but it requires time and effort to train them and therefore, they rather hire experienced workers.
@@potatorrancis7986 Is there actual wage discrimination though? Last time a hoo haa was brought out over a survey where woman was paid less, it was mainly down to lifestyle choices aka man picking dirtier( garbage collector), riskier( offshore drilling) and more scarifical( truckers) jobs. Brackets are just some examples. A more recent example was the US soccer woman courtcase. They were paid a rountine salary and wanted additionally the men pay package but without taking the downside risk of no income. If there is actual wage discrimination aka women are paid less for the same role and performance than men, then yes it shld be acted on but most of the time that is not the case.
algo
wrong choice to be eating ah balling while watching this ep..
the "paid differently" argument is so ignorant. people don't account for:
1. degree's held
2. job experience
3. danger of job
4. type of job
5. hours worked
6. time taken off
7. overtime
reality is top paying jobs/industries are usually male dominated - Science, tech, engineering, math. lowest paying jobs/industries are usually female dominated - social work, teaching, nursing, etc.
if denise is comparing exactly the same job and role, then please refer to one of the other factors mentioned above like for e.g. job experience, more time taken off, less overtime work done, etc. These can stem from being a female such as being a mother, where you need time off to look after kids. but that's because of gender roles. but it's simply not that women are being paid less than men for the same role just because men has a dick and balls.
Why is she biting her nail? Btw, Man and woman are different. So why make it the same forcefully? Let’s keep things simple.
Gg female drivers 🤣 but actually only Sg female drivers 🤦🏼♂️
DEEZ NUTS
There is only gender inequality in extreme cases... just like in Afghan where women are not allowed to go to school... this and that thing.
Enjoying the cognitive dissonance :)
Although I like the openness of where this conversation is going, I do wish there's consideration for those who identifies as non-binary or are in the LGBTQ+ community
Can’t relate to the Topic as I am a Caveman. My biological Job is VERY strightforward. It is to satisfy and protect My hareem who in turn will Produce My offsprings. Women are extremly important if not, whose gonna make me sandwiches and fan me when the weather is Hot. Have you ever seen a Group of lioness argue with their Lion on who does the chores and Call the shots?! No and Thats that…
Denise... no matter how you doll yourself... masculinity... you still look so pretty...so wasted for the guys...
Dan's example of the women and men in workforce with the context of pregnancy really enforces the idea that being born a women really sucks in terms of biology 🥲 (emphasizing on biologically ya) anyways good convo overall!