Everyone in the comments here not realizing that a good system needs buffs and nerfs. Something like a 1k is special because of what the image of a 1k pp play is. If nothing gets nerfed and only buffed, stuff like Snow Halation HDDT will be worth 1k and there will be an actual mega pp inflation. Previous historical milestones will have no meaning anymore whatsoever, because the first 900 will be worth 1.3k+ after a couple only buff reworks
I swear all of these proposed reworks just nerf speed and that's it. They don't do shit about aim, their only objective is to nerf speed when the right thing to do is maybe slightly nerf speed since there really are maps that are overweighted but the thing we need the most is just to buff aim, that should be the priority, not fucking speed with every shit that comes out
replied this to a different comment but wanted to post this on its own: speed has not been nerfed in a significant way since essentially ever. Sythos plays would have received one major buff in 2015, one minor buff in 2021 which was later nerfed back to essentially undo that minor buff. Here are the stats using BathBot's topold command comparing his current pp to what it would be like during those times: april 2015 - february 2019: -4754pp february 2019 - january 2021: -12pp january 2021 - july 2021: +257pp july 2021 - november 2021: +326pp november 2021 - september 2022: +28pp september 2022 - now: +-0pp so while speed/his playstyle has gotten nerfed since 2021 it's not that huge of a difference at least for the stuff he plays
I worked for years to cultivate a list of top plays I was genuinely proud of and happy about, not some farm map bullshit. now those plays I worked so hard for will be nerfed into the ground making the shitty aim scores Idgaf about be my new top plays. awesome
Honestly the only reasons I stray away from wanting to buff aim instead of nerfing speed is because pp inflation is a real thing and you cant keep buffing stuff otherwise 2kpp will be the old 1kpp. Secondly the fact that like all 6 digits farm aim instead of streams shows that at the lower ranks streams are harder to farm than aim, so if you buff aim it would increase this difference even more. Basically its like the inverse at each end, top players streams are way OP than aim, but at low end (where the majority is) the aim is way OP than streams. but if you nerf streams and speed or whatnot it balances out at the top (if you make it actually balanced unlike current proposals), whilst not really effecting the lower ranked demographic (again where the majority is) which means that it is more optimal and would cause less issues in the future, rather than buffing aim giving so many more issues, including pp inflation.
they are nerfing the wrong stream mechanic 🤦♂️. it is not the flow aim buffing the speed too much, it’s the speed buffing the flow aim WAY too much. this is exactly why maps like rise of the chaos wizards is worth piss nothing, and yet it only has like 5 or 6 fcs. the stream aim consistency is the EXACT thing that gaps people. then you look at valley of the vale and it’s worth easily 1k for a map with 1 barely spaced stream. it is speed that buffs the flow aim too much. not the other way around.
hr/nomod flow aim equally gets fucked in this rework too it sucks, like cellar of ghosts going from 1k to 900 is insane same with so many other flow aim maps that are actually hard but still get fucked in the process cuz of this rework
cellar of ghosts is one of the most farmable nomod maps in the game there's basically no other nomod 1k you could set on a map with a bpm as low as 210
@@lemuze there're 10 900+ scores and no hr fc on cellar compares to insert dt speed or even aim farm maps if flow is as overweighted as people are proposing surely people would've slapped hdhr all over cellar and chronostasis and claim their free 1k3 by now
"lets buff aim and nuke speed" i hate the rework. If speed somehow got kept the exact same and aim managed to get a huge buff I'd be so happy. I'm sure it's not that easy tho
Ah yes ascension to heaven 3 mod worth 1.2k pp love it! Valley of the vale HDDT worth more than sidetracked days HDDT love it even more! Speed reworks are just so funny to watch because they never make sense.
I think aim needs to be buffed a bit more in this. Sure, there’ll be a bit more inflation with this, but the fact that Whitecat only increases by 120 pp makes me think this isn’t strong enough of a buff.
I have seen people discuss about this already, istg those mapper dramas and rework controversies manage to do worse than french politics and I don't even know how that's possible.
I think its weird to try to nerf streams in contrast to aim. No one can deny that on lower star ranges and 6-5 digits will have a way easier time on farming jumps vs stream maps. I feel like the speed meta only really applies to the highest percentiles of osu payers
I have like, more than 10 400 pp plays and i still cant farm glory days and maps like these. Btw, im a stream player and pp says "hey, lets nerf these"
ah yes because making a rework is so easy and not just months if not years of trial and error because you try to fix one thing and then something else becomes insanely overweighted sadly it isn't as simple as just buffing what people want since even if they blanket buff aim for example all those speed flow aim farm maps will get buffed too, blanket buffing precision will also cause currently overweighted precision maps to become a huge issue
they should just buff aim and thats it, sidetracked day is NOT overwheighted, even cloutiful with cheats couldnt fc it, its just aim that need a slighty buff
@@miguel_noob6668 cos flowaim is getting nerfed not speed "Spaced streams currently 'double dip' into both speed and aim difficulty, which leads to them being overestimated."
@@miguel_noob6668bc the rework isnt speed, its nerfing the medium sized spacing streams like glory days lion heart etc . speed farm is mostly from these medium spaced streams so thats why its involved and why hr stream maps arent as badly affected
basically yea, here is a history of how sytho's pp would change depending on the rework compared to currently: april 2015 - february 2019: -4754pp february 2019 - january 2021: -12pp january 2021 - july 2021: +257pp july 2021 - november 2021: +326pp november 2021 - september 2022: +28pp september 2022 - now: +-0pp essentially his playstyle has only been buffed (by a large amount in 2019) and then has gotten buffed by a small amount during 2021 and then had that small buff essentially removed in 2022, definitely nothing crazy in terms of nerfs basically since 2014 (pp changes in july 2014 buffed things by a little bit too, he loses 5242pp in the may 2014 pp changes). Stats are from BathBot. To clarify again these numbers always compare to the current system so he would have 4754pp less with the pp system from apr 2015 to feb 2019 compared to currently, same thing with every other value.
@s_odord-osu5953 I have somewhat speed, I get nerfed in the rework, and I still want this rework to happen lol A more fair pp system > getting nerfed bcs of rework(s)
@@lemuze A more fair pp system is to buff aim to the same level that speed is buffed, there’s no need to screw everyone over. It hurts when you have plays worth more than 1000pp and they nerf them to a very low amount. As a speed player, aiming and streaming constantly at 270+ bpm is not easy for a rework like this to happen.
@@s_odord-osu5953 but currently flow aim is fked up. Im kind of speed player and imo speed is alright BUT when you put flow aim into speed it fks up. Sidetracked shouldn't be worth 1400 BUT can''t lie that it shouldn't be 1700. It would be fine if it wazs 1700 and wooting didn't exist imo but it does exist so yeah speed should get nerfed again
@@s_odord-osu5953 speed is kinda weird, its in a gray area where the skill required is a mix of flow and high bpm. What needs to be nerfed is flow, because flow is unbelievably overweighted. The problem is, nerfing flow nerfs a large majority of speed farm maps. Imo speed is pretty balanced when it comes to more mechanic heavy songs like encounter or nekomimi. I do still think that aim needs a buff but at the very least, maps like epitaph and valley of the vale just need to get nerfed.
@etxrnaa this rework will be pushed man what are you on 💀 some changes will most likely still happen, but all pp devs agree that the current system is bad
damn i was thinking of getting back into osu but if osu is just gonna take these impressive plays away from these players i dont think i should anymore since theyre def gonna do it again in the future
@@zeryle ok I’ll not talk about pp here. Akolibed: sidetracked day topdiff HDDT fc, valley of the damned HDDT fc 99 acc, first storm HDDT fc (the one mrekk fced), fced half of honesty DT, mou ii kai topdiffDT fc. In term of skills, even if they are quite different, this guy seems pretty good at what he’s doing, also better than most of his speed opponents , and if mrekk feel like to protect his number 1 spot, he just have to farm, we keep seeing him choking 1.5, 1.9k maps so he’s probably able to defend if he wants.
@@bastienmonet4841they are aiming at maps like bumblebee, they want to nerf flow speed abuse, like bumblebee should not be anywhere near 1.4k like what.
BUFF AIM BUFF AIM BUFF AIM
ye i agree
whitecat top 1 again
As an aim main I agree
Everyone in the comments here not realizing that a good system needs buffs and nerfs. Something like a 1k is special because of what the image of a 1k pp play is. If nothing gets nerfed and only buffed, stuff like Snow Halation HDDT will be worth 1k and there will be an actual mega pp inflation. Previous historical milestones will have no meaning anymore whatsoever, because the first 900 will be worth 1.3k+ after a couple only buff reworks
i think if they will make first 1k pp score worth 1k pp it should be okay
"pp inflation"💀
@@meramimintdirty mind activation
@@meramimint lmaoo jokes aside pp inflation is real and it's gonna hit hard like inflation is already hitting some of us in real life
goofy ahh skull emoji
flight of the bumblebee is why they gotta do this
1:14 my goat whitecat
And… it’s all over the screen 😢
same
@@eyrietracer wtf
@@lemuze you ruined my edging streak… 😰
@eyrie7983 go back to rizz academy, speak again when you're on a 100 streak
Dawg wtf 💀
The brainrot is getting to OSU players man, first Ivaxa now you, or was it the other way 💀
I swear all of these proposed reworks just nerf speed and that's it. They don't do shit about aim, their only objective is to nerf speed when the right thing to do is maybe slightly nerf speed since there really are maps that are overweighted but the thing we need the most is just to buff aim, that should be the priority, not fucking speed with every shit that comes out
replied this to a different comment but wanted to post this on its own: speed has not been nerfed in a significant way since essentially ever. Sythos plays would have received one major buff in 2015, one minor buff in 2021 which was later nerfed back to essentially undo that minor buff. Here are the stats using BathBot's topold command comparing his current pp to what it would be like during those times:
april 2015 - february 2019: -4754pp
february 2019 - january 2021: -12pp
january 2021 - july 2021: +257pp
july 2021 - november 2021: +326pp
november 2021 - september 2022: +28pp
september 2022 - now: +-0pp
so while speed/his playstyle has gotten nerfed since 2021 it's not that huge of a difference at least for the stuff he plays
I worked for years to cultivate a list of top plays I was genuinely proud of and happy about, not some farm map bullshit. now those plays I worked so hard for will be nerfed into the ground making the shitty aim scores Idgaf about be my new top plays. awesome
its a good rework tho
Can you link your profile? Are they actually cool scores, or do you just think every speed play is cool and something to be proud of
Honestly the only reasons I stray away from wanting to buff aim instead of nerfing speed is because pp inflation is a real thing and you cant keep buffing stuff otherwise 2kpp will be the old 1kpp.
Secondly the fact that like all 6 digits farm aim instead of streams shows that at the lower ranks streams are harder to farm than aim, so if you buff aim it would increase this difference even more. Basically its like the inverse at each end, top players streams are way OP than aim, but at low end (where the majority is) the aim is way OP than streams.
but if you nerf streams and speed or whatnot it balances out at the top (if you make it actually balanced unlike current proposals), whilst not really effecting the lower ranked demographic (again where the majority is) which means that it is more optimal and would cause less issues in the future, rather than buffing aim giving so many more issues, including pp inflation.
they are nerfing the wrong stream mechanic 🤦♂️. it is not the flow aim buffing the speed too much, it’s the speed buffing the flow aim WAY too much. this is exactly why maps like rise of the chaos wizards is worth piss nothing, and yet it only has like 5 or 6 fcs. the stream aim consistency is the EXACT thing that gaps people. then you look at valley of the vale and it’s worth easily 1k for a map with 1 barely spaced stream. it is speed that buffs the flow aim too much. not the other way around.
hr/nomod flow aim equally gets fucked in this rework too it sucks, like cellar of ghosts going from 1k to 900 is insane same with so many other flow aim maps that are actually hard but still get fucked in the process cuz of this rework
@@spiderz7247 ever thought that those maps do not deserve to be that much pp ? 💀
cellar of ghosts is one of the most farmable nomod maps in the game
there's basically no other nomod 1k you could set on a map with a bpm as low as 210
@@lemuze there're 10 900+ scores and no hr fc on cellar compares to insert dt speed or even aim farm maps if flow is as overweighted as people are proposing surely people would've slapped hdhr all over cellar and chronostasis and claim their free 1k3 by now
Maybe because they should be
"lets buff aim and nuke speed" i hate the rework. If speed somehow got kept the exact same and aim managed to get a huge buff I'd be so happy. I'm sure it's not that easy tho
That's literally the same thing. Buffing one skillset means nerffing others, even if they still give the exact same amount of pp
Ah yes ascension to heaven 3 mod worth 1.2k pp love it! Valley of the vale HDDT worth more than sidetracked days HDDT love it even more! Speed reworks are just so funny to watch because they never make sense.
i wanted a rework that would balance speed and aim, but no these proposed reworks are cursed af
Boohoo my snow goose play deserves to be 1.4k
Keep speed the same, just buff aim
Facts
man, have you ever heard of inflation?
@@patricksteinsen1147 i need more pp not less
@@SixDigitOsu name checks out
@@lemuze name also checks out
isnt aetrnas ath 3mod 1.2k after rework too lmao
I think aim needs to be buffed a bit more in this. Sure, there’ll be a bit more inflation with this, but the fact that Whitecat only increases by 120 pp makes me think this isn’t strong enough of a buff.
Most of whitecats insane aim plays are unranked/loved
they need to nerf length bonus
that's the wrong rework :grief:
the cope is hard, speed absolutely needs to be nerfed
Isn't buffing aim just equivalent as nerfing speed with just bigger pp values overall?
I have seen people discuss about this already, istg those mapper dramas and rework controversies manage to do worse than french politics and I don't even know how that's possible.
yes pretty much, however a nerf feels way worse because it removes from you rather than add to others
@@blotas1904mdr
remember, that Sotarks is French :) @@blotas1904
@@Ling-Lan That's true
Blud has no fking chill tho 💀
I think its weird to try to nerf streams in contrast to aim. No one can deny that on lower star ranges and 6-5 digits will have a way easier time on farming jumps vs stream maps. I feel like the speed meta only really applies to the highest percentiles of osu payers
I have like, more than 10 400 pp plays and i still cant farm glory days and maps like these. Btw, im a stream player and pp says "hey, lets nerf these"
this seems like a complete win
It’s crazy how blind the PP Council is. They know what the players want, so JUST FUCKING DO IT?!?!
and thats what they did
@@GamerYouTubik they didn’t, otherwise they would’ve buffed precision aim.
The PP council sounds epic
ah yes because making a rework is so easy and not just months if not years of trial and error because you try to fix one thing and then something else becomes insanely overweighted
sadly it isn't as simple as just buffing what people want since even if they blanket buff aim for example all those speed flow aim farm maps will get buffed too, blanket buffing precision will also cause currently overweighted precision maps to become a huge issue
guys i need all my 1x plays validated please
they should just buff aim and thats it, sidetracked day is NOT overwheighted, even cloutiful with cheats couldnt fc it, its just aim that need a slighty buff
my sidetracked day fc (its on my channel btw) gets nerfed for whatever reason, it is just 190bpm stream, its not speed AT ALL
Your opinion sucks ngl
@@miguel_noob6668 cos flowaim is getting nerfed not speed "Spaced streams currently 'double dip' into both speed and aim difficulty, which leads to them being overestimated."
@@miguel_noob6668bc the rework isnt speed, its nerfing the medium sized spacing streams like glory days lion heart etc . speed farm is mostly from these medium spaced streams so thats why its involved and why hr stream maps arent as badly affected
Sidetracked day is EXTREMELY overweighted. Its a circle drawing map. They need to buff raw speed and nerf flow aim, which is what theyre doing atm
what does he mean nerf speed like always....
speed had no nerfs....
cry more sytho
basically yea, here is a history of how sytho's pp would change depending on the rework compared to currently:
april 2015 - february 2019: -4754pp
february 2019 - january 2021: -12pp
january 2021 - july 2021: +257pp
july 2021 - november 2021: +326pp
november 2021 - september 2022: +28pp
september 2022 - now: +-0pp
essentially his playstyle has only been buffed (by a large amount in 2019) and then has gotten buffed by a small amount during 2021 and then had that small buff essentially removed in 2022, definitely nothing crazy in terms of nerfs basically since 2014 (pp changes in july 2014 buffed things by a little bit too, he loses 5242pp in the may 2014 pp changes). Stats are from BathBot. To clarify again these numbers always compare to the current system so he would have 4754pp less with the pp system from apr 2015 to feb 2019 compared to currently, same thing with every other value.
every player that doesnt have speed, is going to say nerf speed. Just buff aim
@s_odord-osu5953 I have somewhat speed, I get nerfed in the rework, and I still want this rework to happen lol
A more fair pp system > getting nerfed bcs of rework(s)
@@lemuze A more fair pp system is to buff aim to the same level that speed is buffed, there’s no need to screw everyone over. It hurts when you have plays worth more than 1000pp and they nerf them to a very low amount. As a speed player, aiming and streaming constantly at 270+ bpm is not easy for a rework like this to happen.
@@s_odord-osu5953 but currently flow aim is fked up. Im kind of speed player and imo speed is alright BUT when you put flow aim into speed it fks up. Sidetracked shouldn't be worth 1400 BUT can''t lie that it shouldn't be 1700. It would be fine if it wazs 1700 and wooting didn't exist imo but it does exist so yeah speed should get nerfed again
@@s_odord-osu5953 speed is kinda weird, its in a gray area where the skill required is a mix of flow and high bpm. What needs to be nerfed is flow, because flow is unbelievably overweighted. The problem is, nerfing flow nerfs a large majority of speed farm maps. Imo speed is pretty balanced when it comes to more mechanic heavy songs like encounter or nekomimi. I do still think that aim needs a buff but at the very least, maps like epitaph and valley of the vale just need to get nerfed.
@@anonmovement2717 @anonmovement2717 bro wants to nerf flow aim so NM stream players and speed players get nerf, crazy
The nerf is just a bit harsh, Akolibed Sidetracked day should still be 1.6k imo, just not 1.7k
Keep in mind, it wouldve almost been 2k pp in 2020
buff nomod aim
nerf dt aim
GUYS CANCEL THE REWORK SO SYTHO QUITS
Yall dont gotta worry abt this rework, combo scaling removal will happen but this one is highly unlikely
@etxrnaa this rework will be pushed man what are you on 💀 some changes will most likely still happen, but all pp devs agree that the current system is bad
Ok I don't know about "all" pp devs, but most do
@@lemuze relax bro, im saying CSR will happen but other reworks not sure. i do agree the current system is awful
@etxrnaa mb haha, but there is a difference between "highly unlikely" and "not sure" yk
@@lemuze yeah u right, i was lwk just yapping out of my ass LMAOOO
speed needs like a 12% nerf not like a 30% lol
Where are you pulling these %'s from?
i wish sidetracked was 1600
WhiteCat gets back to the grind after this
This rework is restarted
Buff aim 🙏🙏🙏🙏
This happened on my birthday Lmfao
4 views in 3 minutes bro fell off
damn i was thinking of getting back into osu but if osu is just gonna take these impressive plays away from these players i dont think i should anymore since theyre def gonna do it again in the future
lmao it's just a proposed rework. it'll never be confirmed
this rework is so ass
Men, mrekk have literally potential to get 2k, lifeline and gnahus are top 3 and 4 even if they play aim. why do we need a rework?
Because of the speed meta and Akolibed, he shouldnt be event close to mrekk pp wise
@@zeryle ok I’ll not talk about pp here. Akolibed: sidetracked day topdiff HDDT fc, valley of the damned HDDT fc 99 acc, first storm HDDT fc (the one mrekk fced), fced half of honesty DT, mou ii kai topdiffDT fc. In term of skills, even if they are quite different, this guy seems pretty good at what he’s doing, also better than most of his speed opponents , and if mrekk feel like to protect his number 1 spot, he just have to farm, we keep seeing him choking 1.5, 1.9k maps so he’s probably able to defend if he wants.
@@bastienmonet4841they are aiming at maps like bumblebee, they want to nerf flow speed abuse, like bumblebee should not be anywhere near 1.4k like what.
LOL just checked out the rework and... no.. just no
Caffeine + wooting + pratices = insane speed scores
Only raw pratices = insane aim scores
Yup, thats my opinion, don’t blame me:)
Yep, you are restarted