Im convinced they machine the bolt bore to .703 in the rear and .705 in the front. When I blueprinted my action back in 2012, i had to use the same size bushings to cut the bolt bore.
The rifles are still within 1-2 moa of accuracy. You have to accommodate for the receiver being untrue in the scope, but the rifles are still usually within 1-2. Remingtons custom rifles typically have more time throw into them though. I'm not cutting them slack, but they produce millions of rifles.
Guys QUIT re-cutting the internal threads ! Its not necessary just use a mandrel between centers and face the receiver . No mater how bad the threads are I've never seen on that needed to he re threaded , UNLESS someone did not lube the threads in a tight thread stainless barrel that has galled up on the receiver . I've built hundreds of Remington's and used them to win numerous national championships at Camp Perry . Might lap the lugs but thats about all .
I guess if you want a half ass job don't do the threads. They are usually out the worse of all the critical surfaces. I'm a precision rifle builder and every detail matters when it comes to accuracy. If 1-2 moa is good enough then blueprinting is not for you. But if you want to take out all the variables that something is square or concentric to the centerline, then this is a critical step when done correctly.
as a retired machinest and shooter it pisses me off big time how rifle manufacturers can t produce a more precision bolt toactio. tolerance...CZ the chezcoslavacian company has best fits
Is the factory incapable, or do they just not give a shit? Also, how hard would it be to get it perfectly square and round down to the one millionth of an inch? Or one ten-millionth? Possible? Worth it for extreme accuracy?
# 3 correction a ni e long reamed and tight bore to hold the reamer straight with same on other side so everything will be in line..I am a retired machines and do some smithing for me and friends...that's how I see it
If the chamber is reamed concentrically to the bore, what difference does it make if the bolt face, bolt lugs, etc. are three to four thousandths off? In regards to rifle accuracy, it only matters that the bullet enters the rifling concentrically - and this is accomplished by a truly concentric chamber/bore relationship. All the action truing is just extra effort and cost that will never be realized in a rifle's accuracy by the shooter.
im still rather new to precision shooting but this was my understanding as well. kind of like people building precision ar-15's blowing their budget on expensive lowers and monolithic uppers... as if it effects accuracy
Hey Kevin, I’m curious how once you set the action in the large fixture, the point where the 4” dial end is all wobbly, how do you verify that the action itself is true inside the fixture? Thanks!
@@ML-ks4wh the OD of the receiver is not critical, everything has to come off the ID of the action, Think of it as a datum, in a linear direction, and the run out as a datum in the perpendicular direction.
Could you do this to a Mosin Nagant? I know that probably sounds ridiculous to some people, but I'm serious about this. I will be buying a custom bull barrel for this build, and I even want to build a custom chassis if possible, but I don't see the point if I can't get somebody to blueprint the action.
+JC545X39 there are endless possibilities when it comes to mosins. Yes you can blueprint them and if you mess up, your only 150-200 bones down. Ive seen custom mosin builds shooting 1 moa with factory barrels and even some with the original stock setup barrel rings and all. So ya the potential is definitely there.
150-200 bones down plus whatever you've got in the "build" to that point. And you're "down" a rifle and either replace it and start over or do without whatever it was you hoped to end up with. "You're not out much if you screw it up" isn't exactly an intelligent, optimistic and productive way to approach a "build". And your ability to "blueprint" a Mosin is limited to your ability to find "good" used, worn-out parts from another scrapped/surplused rifle to "tighten up" areas of the rifle new parts and/or "rebuilding" aren't available/possible fore. Meanwhile, you can take the bare minimum you'll have in any "serious" Mosin "build" - $400-$500 - or LESS and go buy a high-quality, mass-produced, modern and far superior American bolt-action rifle and even a rifle/scope combo for "precision" work and save wear and tear on the tired old Mosin that's near and dear to your heart if you want to "build" it and eliminate any and all chance of "messing up" altogether. And you'll end up with a "shooter" that's so much "better" than the Mosin in every way - size, weight, ergonomics, accuracy, precision, ammunition options, "resale value", parts and service/repair availability etc etc etc that you really have to "mentally ill" to do the Mosin build. And by "mentally ill" I mean convinced that any amount of time and money are going to turn a worn-out old Communist-block mil-surp that was "obsolete" when brand new with its rimmed and oddball-caliber cartridge, into some kind of "sniper rifle" or that you'll be shooting "long-range" with it and aren't throwing away good money after bad even if the "build" goes "perfectly".
@@deeremeyer1749 Damn dude, can't you just let people like what they like? Why do you have to tear everybody down all the time? You must be a fucking peach to live with.
Remember in ur video u said u had taper in reciever bore..well wat did u accomplish ?? U still have the taper and u altered the thread diameter..its no longer 1/16xby 16 pitch..😁
Typically I will see the receiver threads have taper. They get smaller towards the rear due to tool deflection when originally cut by Remington. Once the action is dialed in axial alignment to the center of the receiver, by single point boring the tops of the threads off for a 100% clean up and single point re-chasing the threads I am removing the taper and re-cutting the threads straight and concentric to the bolt bore raceway. Yes it will over size the thread tennon but it is still 16 tpi. Not a problem when installing a new barrel. I made gauges to measure the amount of oversize and transfer that onto the new barrel tennon. I only will blueprint an action that I will be installing a new barrel on.
Is that taper due to "tool deflection" or does it serve the same purpose taper serves in pipe threads assisting in locking the barrel in place and sealing the threads? Once upon a time rifles had open sights and the threads had to be cut very precisely to properly "clock" and "lock" the barrel in place when tightened to specs and properly aligned with the receiver. I tend to think if there is taper there Remington put it there for a reason. Especially when Remington brought out the 700 specifically to capitalize on Winchester's bastardization of the Model 70 beginning in 1965 and wasn't about to do sloppy half-assed work. Remington also had/has a long history of building some very complex rifles and pistols successfully and did so "back in the day" when Winchester was still playing with lever-action and pump-action long guns. 1911 pistols, Remington Autloading/Model 8/Model 81 rifles, license-built "copies" of John Brownings Auto-5 shotguns, etc. Those three designs are probably the most sophisticated and technically-demanding and precision-dependent gun designs John Browning ever came up with and were "ahead of their time" in a big way and required an insane amount of machining and precision and accuracy in tolerances, clearances, etc. to even "run" much less "run" well. I've got a 1914-manufactured Remington Model 8 Grade C in .35 Remington that's been well-used but not abused that will still knock out 2-3 MOA 100-yard groups with "cheap" reloads in Federal brass with 200-grain Hornady round-nose bullets and good old IMR4064 with open sights. And I'm not "benchrest" shooter on my best day. I think your theory on the reason that taper exists is pretty flawed. You can't cut threads incorrectly and have things go together correctly.
I hope you feel a bit better getting that rant off your chest :) It's clear to see you are all about rifle accuracy....lol. Anyone with any sort of common sense and reads your reply can tell you know absolutely nothing about what is involved in making a rifle accurate. 2-3 moa at 100 yards is not accurate, it's piss poor. I'm building rifles that are capable of sub 1/2 moa out to at least 1000 yards. Thread taper intentionally cut into the receiver threads for accuracy ;-) That's an awesome thought but clearly untrue. Before you post such ludicrous comments do a bit more research before you spout off about something you know nothing about.
"Clearly untrue", huh? You sure about that? Do you have a set of "blueprints" for a factory Remington 700? One with dimensions, specifications and tolerances on it? How does Remington go about doing their "shoddy" machine work on those receivers/rifles they can't build right even after close to 60 years but you "gunsmiths" can "fix" WITHOUT A BLUEPRINT OR SPEC OR DIMENSION OR TOLERANCE TO BE FOUND IN YOUR VIDEOS? I laugh my ASS off at the "couple tenths" and "few thou" all you gun-guru heroes throw out as "lingo" when you're doing your "precision" gunsmithing. Tell me something else. Tell me EXACTLY WHAT EFFECT "TRUING" THE FRONT FACE OF THE RECEIVER HAS ON WHERE THE BARREL ENDS UP "POINTED" AND HOW YOU'RE "FIXING" THE RECEIVER'S "ISSUES" BUT THEN PUTTING IN A "BENT" BARREL YOU HAVE TO "CLOCK" THE BEND "UP" ON AS YOU INSTALL IT IN THE RECEIVER. What if those "few thou" are IN TOLERANCE for those receivers? And isn't it pretty OBVIOUS they ARE "to spec" since Remington is the one deciding dimensions/specs/tolerances for its rifles? What is pretty much the ONLY "modern" commercial high-powered rifle/receiver made from day one to BE "rebuilt" and that has ALWAYS had factory replacement barrels available for it that ALSO has been around for more than 5 to 15 years or so? It ain't a Savage 110. They have those "easy to replace" barrels but SAVAGE DON'T SELL BARRELS ONLY FOR THEM. It ain't a Winchester Model 70 or a Ruger M77 or a Weatherby Mark 5 or Vanguard or a Browning A-Bolt or X-Bolt. It's the Remington 700. The GUNSMITH DREAM GUN. At least the NOOB GUNSMITH'S DREAM GUN. Just tell the customer its all fucked up but by God you can "fix" it just doing a little "truing" on it. Cut some metal off the receiver here and take some material out of the BARREL THREADS THERE (it takes a special kind of stupid to try to "improve" THREADS by making them LOOSER) and do a little "perpendicularizing" in the "bolt lugs" (I'm pretty sure the BOLT LUGS ARE ON THE BOLT AND WHAT ARE IN THE RECEIVER ARE CALLED RECESSES OR GROOVES) and its a MIRACLE! A "gunsmith" is able to "fix" a "flawed" factory receiver even though he damn sure has to rely on SOME PART OF THAT "FLAWED" RECEIVER BEING "RIGHT" TO "PROVE" THE REST OF IT ISN'T. Pretty damned funny you "gunsmiths" act like a "couple thou" on that all-important receiver face is the difference between "shitty" accuracy and "world-class" precision but you've got no problem sticking "bent" barrels in them after you "true" them. And you brag about sub-MOA accuracy from your "builds" like there aren't half a dozen "cheap" mass-produced American bolt-action rifles that go for under $500 and in some cases under $300 that don't guarantee at least 1 MOA accuracy with factory ammo. THAT was the POINT of me mentioning that 104 year old Remington Model 8 in my safe that shoots 2-3 MOA as-built in 1904 and as-designed by John Browning and with what basically amounts to a "shotgun" operating system since those Remington autloading rifles are pretty much the rifle counterpart of a Browning Auto-5 shotgun. To the extent that I just put a brand-new "Auto-5" BUFFER SPRING in my Model 8. Actually its the buffer spring for a Remington Model 11 shotgun but that's the "licensed" Remington version OF the Browning Auto-5. Numrich Gun Parts was "sold out" of new RIFLE buffer springs for at least the last 3 years or so since I started looking for one after noticing my old Model 8 was kicking way too freaking hard for being loaded "light" even by .35 Remington specs. I happened to check again a few weeks ago and found a "note" on the replacement parts lists that a Model 11 spring can be substituted. Sure as shit. Made a "new" rifle out of it. Ready for another 100+ years of service. Think any of your "builds" will still be shooting 100 years from now? Hell, you don't give a shit if they're still shooting five years after you "build" them. You're just another noob hack "gunsmith" out to make the "big bucks" suckering as many customers as possible into paying for "builds" with "junk" factory Remington parts that Remington can't build right but by GOD YOU CAN FIX! Better make the big money while you can, chief. Big "booms" in the "gun business" are always cyclical, the bubbles burst and the more "builds" you do/sell now the less REAL "gunsmithing" you'll have to fall back on later. Smart gunsmiths DON'T ENCOURAGE THEIR CUSTOMERS TO BUY/BUILD SO-CALLED "CUSTOM" RIFLES BY "STRIPPING" FACTORY RIFLES OR BUYING "HIGH-END" AFTERMARKET PARTS. The GRAVY in the "gunsmithing business" is always in the "vintage" and "antique" and "hunting" and "plinking" rifles and shotguns and handguns owners have a sentimental attachment to. Its not like you can depend on NEW or NEWLY REBUILT GUNS TO BREAK OR NEED REFINISHING OR HARD-TO-FIND PARTS FOUND OR MADE FOR THEM. And making "how-to" videos and flooding the internet with them? GOOD PLAN. WHEN ITS AS MUCH OF A PITA AS IT IS TO SHIP A GUN OR GUN PARTS ANYWHERE TO HAVE WORK DONE AND THERE'S STILL A HUGE "SHORTAGE" OF GUNSMITHS OR AT LEAST GOOD ONES NO MATTER HOW MANY OF YOU NOOBS ARE AROUND THESE DAYS, IT DON'T TAKE MUCH BRAINS TO FIGURE OUT A LOCAL MACHINE SHOP OR GOING TOGETHER WITH A BUDDY OR TWO TO BUY A CHEAP MADE IN CHINA BENCHTOP LATHE MIGHT BE BY FAR THE "EASIEST" AND "CHEAPEST" WAY TO "BUILD" OR RE-BARREL A RIFLE OR THREE. All you're doing it "training" your potential customers to not need you. Good plan. But since I'm pretty much "retired" from the diesel mechanic thing, I've been a "gun nut" since birth LONG before drew a breath and I've done just a LITTLE machine work along the way including boring Cat cylinder blocks for liner counterbore inserts, cylinder head rebuild including valve seat and guide replacement AND I've got plenty of my own guns to "practice" on AND I know CUSTOMER SERVICE and how to be a PROFESSIONAL and how to COVER MY ASS AND MAKE THE CUSTOMER HAPPY AND MAKE MONEY AND HOW TO MAKE "EASY" MONEY SELLING "ADVICE" AND "TRAINING" HELPING A CUSTOMER WITH A RIFLE THAT "WON'T SHOOT" LEARN TO SHOOT BETTER IF THAT'S THE PROBLEM AND I CAN CHARGE $50 PER HOUR TO SHOOT AND "WEAR OUT" HIS TOOLS - I.E. HIS RIFLE(S) DOING SOME "LOAD DEVELOPMENT" INSTEAD OF USING AND "WEARING OUT" MY OWN TOOLS DOING SHOP WORK TO "FIX" SOMETHING THAT AIN'T BROKE AND THAT WILL STILL BE BROKE AFTER "TRAINING" AND "LOAD DEVELOPMENT" IF IT IS BROKE, I'm a little closer to calling MYSELF a "gunsmith" every day. For a while I was worried that all the hack and half-assed "gunsmiths" and "gunsmithing" all over the internet in "how-to" videos might "make me look bad" if I decided to be a "gunsmith". Then I realized that there's no way in hell any of you all can make ME anything but MONEY. "Gunsmith" is just a word anyway. Like "mechanic" or "plumber" or "electrician". A grass-green rookie right out of school or an apprenticeship can call himself or herself a "gunsmith" or "mechanic" or "plumber" or "electrician" first day on the job. But if they DO wait that long to "identify" as a "member" of whatever "trade", it ain't in their blood, their brothers and sisters in the trade will know they're "phoning it in" and at some point so will their customer's. Especially if they seem more like the "teaching" type than the "doing" type and don't get that being in the trades isn't about "fixing" or "building" machines or buildings. Its about solving problems. Problems you have to know as much as possible about going in so you know you've solved them going out. And the most profitable and enjoyable "problem solving" is that which requires as little real effort, stress, expense and "investment" on the part of the trades person as possible. Its GREAT to really love what you do and ENJOY tearing apart some "broken" machine and fix it and not work a day in your life because its literally what you'd probably be paying to do as a "DIYer" IF you hadn't ended up in the trades. But its also damned nice to get paid to talk to a customer and "train" them in how to properly or more effectively operate/use their machines and REALLY fun to tell them you don't HAVE to tear their machine apart because its not "broken" after all OR you found something "minor" and it was or will be a "quick fix". A guy not only WANTS those "easy" jobs once in a while and WANTS to tell the occasional customer as tactfully as possible their problem is "operator error", but NEEDS TO. BIG JOB AFTER BIG JOB AND WORKED PILED UP ALL AROUND GETS OLD AND IT TAKES A LOT OF THE "FUN" RIGHT THE HELL OUT OF BEING A "GEARHEAD" IN A TECHNICAL TRADE DOING WHAT YOU LOVE. And that kind of work load means you spend tons of time chasing parts and contacting customers and jumping from job to job trying to stay busy even when you may not have what you need for any of the projects exactly when you want/need it. Having an "easy one" come in and especially one that might get you away from the "grind" for a few hours and that you can and will charge the customer for regardless but ends up being "pure profit" because you're not putting anything but your time and skill and ability and knowledge to work test-firing his or her gun for them? That's what professionals in the trade call "gravy". And maybe selling a "shooting lesson" or two or some "load development" time and sending them home happy gun in hand after a few hours of "playing" on their dime and without having to spend any money out of your own pocket or wear out any expensive tools or "float" any expensive parts bills until "payday" after a big repair project? And basically you get a "day" or even just a morning or afternoon "off" even IF you have to "work" on a Saturday or Sunday to do it and normally don't work weekends? That's called "Fuckin' old Shep". Doing damn near nothing but still "working" and getting paid for it and in a situation where you literally can't lose. Someday when you find the customer who can't shoot for shit and blames that on you, you'll learn.
I've sent too many times how some gunsmiths true up a rem 700 actions an I can't agree with how they do it..first of all when u bore out a bolt raceway you have made a decision that that surface is the master surface where all the truing will be done. meaning that now your tennon barrel threads are out of line with the bolt raceway......think ??? that means we have to re-chase the receiver threads to match the raceway bolt bore ?????? the receiver threads should always be the master poi t where we do our machining period...its one pain in the ass to pick up internal threads.also your Remington dimensions are altered from 1/16 by 16 to who knows what sorry the receiver threads should always be the master point do do the job
Sam, I think the whole point is the threads may not be and usually aren't threaded to the center axis of the action bore. Which would then mean if you use the threads as a "master surface" the bolt center line, bolt lugs, bolt face will all be off cent to the barrel bore. Truing the internal threads after cutting about .010" off and truing them to center isn't that big of a deal.
And "trimming" the threads is going to "fix" that situation HOW? You don't AIM the BACK of a barrel and the barrel bore doesn't HAVE to be precisely aligned with the receiver bolt bore to have an accurate and precise rifle. Its just AMAZING how many absolute TACK-DRIVER FACTORY ORIGINAL AND DECADES-OLD 700s there are out there even though Remington apparently couldn't/can't build its own design to its own specs or at least whatever "specs" all these "gunsmiths" who think THEY CAN "FIX" WHAT REMINGTON FUCKED UP, isn't it? And the CENTER OR AXIS OF THE "ACTION" DOESN'T MEAN JACK SHIT BECAUSE THE BULLET GOES THROUGH THE BARREL AND OUT THE MUZZLE END. I'm YET to see a single "gun expert" like you or any of the huge herd of "gunsmiths" who literally find "issues" with EVERY ONE OF THE MILLIONS OF 700 THEY COLLECTIVELY MUST HAVE "FIXED" SINCE THEY'RE ALL "EXPERTS" ON THEM AND USUALLY CLAIM TO HAVE WORKED ON THEM BY THE TRUCKLOAD COME UP WITH EVEN A FACTORY "BLUEPRINT" TO CHECK A FACTORY RIFLE AGAINST MUCH LESS A "BLUEPRINT" FOR ALL THE STUPID UNNECESSARY SHIT YOU THINK HAS TO BE DONE TO MAKE A 700 "SHOOT". But back to "truing" INTERNAL THREADS. If its NOT A BIG DEAL WHEN YOU'RE "CUTTING ABOUT .010" OFF" HOW IN THE HELL CAN IT POSSIBLY HELP? AND IF YOU TAKE THAT .010" OF EQUALLY, YOU HAVEN'T DONE A DAMNED THING EXCEPT "RUIN" THE FACTORY THREADS REMINGTON CUT IN THOSE RECEIVERS TO THEIR SPECS FOR A REASON. THAT REASON BEING BECAUSE TO REMINGTON IT WAS A "BIG DEAL" THAT THOSE THREADS BE A SPECIFIC DEPTH, PITCH AND PROFILE. IN EVERY OTHER TECHNICAL TRADE AND PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO HIGH-PRESSURE/HIGH-LOAD/HIGH-STRESS FASTENERS THAT HAVE TO KEEP COMPLEX, SOPHISTICATED AND PRECISELY-ENGINEERED AND CONSTRUCTED MACHINES IN "ONE PIECE", WE DON'T EVEN "CHASE" THREADS WITH A REGULAR TAP OR DIE IF WE CAN POSSIBLY HELP IT BECAUSE TAPS AND DIES CUT THREADS, NO TWO ARE ALIKE AND NO SINGLE ONE IS "PERFECT" AND YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE THREAD MATERIAL WITH THE DEBRIS YOU "CHASE" OUT OF THE THREADS. THAT'S WHY WE BUY/MAKE THESE TOOLS CALLED "THREAD CHASERS". AND ITS PRETTY MUCH UNHEARD OF FOR A MECHANIC, ELECTRICIAN, PLUMBER, WELDER, FABRICATOR TO "RE-ENGINEER" A MACHINE BUILT TO THE MANUFACTURER'S SPECS EVEN WHEN WE DO ACTUALLY HAVE A LEGITIMATE NEED TO "TEAR IT APART" AND REPAIR SOME "ISSUE" IT HAS. WE ALSO PRETTY MUCH HAVE TO DO THIS THING CALLED "VERIFYING THE CUSTOMER'S COMPLAINT". THAT MEANS IF THE CUSTOMER SAYS HIS CAR OR HOUSEHOLD WIRING OR PLUMBING IS FUCKING UP, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE IT'S FUCKING UP AND THAT WE CAN "DUPLICATE" THE "FAILURE". WE DO THAT TO KNOW AS MUCH ABOUT THE PROBLEMS FROM THE "PATIENT'S" SIDE OF THINGS AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE CUSTOMER'S TEND TO NEED HELP WITH PROBLEMS AND TEND TO TALK TO "PROBLEM SOLVERS" WHEN SHIT COULD BE GOING BETTER FOR THEM, THEY'RE STRESSED, THEY'RE NOT HAPPY ABOUT BEING "BROKE DOWN" AND BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD OR HAVE HEARD OF "PROFESSIONALS" IN THE "TECHNICAL TRADES" DOING UNNECESSARY WORK AND MAKING UP SHIT TO "FIX" JUST TO SCREW SOMEBODY OUT OF THEIR MONEY. OFTEN THEY HAVE ALSO EXPERIENCED/HEARD ABOUT SITUATIONS WHERE NOTHING GOT FIXED OR EVEN CHECKED PERIOD BEFORE THE BILL WAS PAID AND THE JOB "DONE" AND THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY "OBSESSED" WITH MAKING SURE THEY "COMMUNICATE" TO THE "PROBLEM SOLVER" EVERYTHING THEY KNOW ABOUT THE PROBLEM, THEY END UP COMMUNICATING NOTHING OF VALUE. AND WHEN MONEY IS AN ISSUE AND IT ALWAYS IS FOR SOMEONE(S) INVOLVED IN THE "BUSINESS TRANSACTION) THEY TEND TO "BEST-CASE" PROBLEMS, FORGET IMPORTANT DETAILS AND CONVINCE THEMSELVES AND TRY TO CONVINCE THE "PROBLEM SOLVER" THAT ITS "NOT THAT SERIOUS". AND EVERY NOW AND THEN ITS THE CUSTOMER WHO IS THE PROBLEM AND ITS ALL "OPERATOR ERROR" WITH NOTHING WRONG WITH THE MACHINE AT ALL. SO WE "VERIFY THE COMPLAINT" FIRST AND FOREMOST. AND WHEN WE'VE "SOLVED THE PROBLEM" OR BELIEVE WE HAVE, WE MAKE AS MUCH OF AN EFFORT AS IT TAKES TO SATISFY US THAT WE HAVE IN FACT SOLVED IT TO VERIFY THAT WE'VE SOLVED IT. THAT ALL ADDS UP TO TEST-DRIVES AND DIAGNOSTICS AND PERHAPS HAVING TO TURN A BUNCH OF LIGHTS AND APPLIANCES ON IN A HOME TO PUT SUFFICIENT LOAD ON THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM TO CHECK FOR WEAK BREAKERS OR BAD CONNECTIONS, ETC. AND THEN WHEN WE'RE DONE WE DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO DO EXACTLY THE SAME TESTS THAT WE DID TO BEGIN WITH PLUS ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING ELSE WE CAN THINK OF TO "VERIFY THE REPAIR". HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ONE OF THESE "GUNSMITHS" TEST-FIRE A RIFLE THEY'RE "REPAIRING" OR "ACCURIZING" OR "BUILDING" OR "RE-BARRELING" BEFORE AND/OR AFTER THEIR "REPAIR". TO MAKE SURE THAT ITS PERFORMING "TO SPECS" BEFORE THEY THROW A LOT OF THEIR TIME AND MONEY AND THE CUSTOMERS TIME AND MONEY AT IT BASED UPON PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS ABOUT HOW IT MUST BE "OFF" AND NEED "TRUED" BECAUSE ITS A REMINGTON 700? HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A VIDEO WHERE THE "GUNSMITH" PUTS THE DIAL INDICATOR ON THE SPINDLE OR TAILSTOCK OF HIS LATHE OR ON THE FACE OF THE CHUCK TO VERIFY THE TOOL THEY USE AND HAVE USED EVERY TIME OR AT LEAST PREVIOUSLY WHEN THE FOUND "BAD" REMINGTON 700 RECEIVERS ISN'T THE WHOLE DAMNED PROBLEM AND THE REASON WHY EVERY ONE THEY WORK ON IS "OFF" AND IN A REMARKABLY CONSISTENT WAY SINCE THEY ALWAYS MENTION HOW THEY'RE "ALL" OFF "ABOUT" X "THOU"? I GUARANTEE YOU PROFESSIONAL, QUALITY GUNSMITHS DO EXACTLY THAT. AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE TIME FOR AND DON'T NEED TO WASTE THE TIME ON "TRUING" EVERY DAMNED REMINGTON 700 SOME GUY THEY DON'T KNOW CAN HIT THE BROAD SIDE OF A BARN FROM 10 FEET AWAY UNLESS THEY'VE PERSONALLY SEEN HIM SHOOT HAPPENS TO DRAG IN THE FRONT DOOR WANTING A "GUNSMITH" TO MAKE IT "SHOOT". IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE AN UNPROFESSIONAL "GUNSMITH" WHO DOESN'T HAVE SO MUCH WORK THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE PLENTY OF FREE TIME AND APPARENTLY A NEED TO MAKE "COMMERCIALS" FOR HIS "GUNSMITHING" AND HE CLAIMS TO HAVE WORKED ON "MULTIPLE" REMINGTON 700s and claims they're ALL "off" and need "trued" to "shoot", and he has used the same tools over and over to somehow both "verify" that the parts are "off" having never fired the rifle personally to "fix" the "bad" parts by removing yet more steel from them AND all so a new "bent" barrel he has to "clock" to make it "bend up" because not even the BEST AND MOST EXPENSIVE "PREMIUM" BARRELS HE SWEARS UP AND DOWN BY ARE "GOOD" AND "STRAIGHT" AND "TRUE" and this is all in response to some "random shooter" walking in with yet another Remington 700 that "won't shoot" or at least not "good enough" FOR HIM that its REALLY THE REMINGTON 700s that are the consistent "problem"? I spent a lot of years as a dealership service technician working on John Deere farm equipment and Caterpillar heavy equipment and Ford/New Holland/Versatile farm equipment. "Fleet" type work in a lot of cases where if we had ONE of "machine x" in a customer's inventory, we usually had 2 to 2 dozen of them scattered around our "area of responsibility". PIPs or "Product Improvement Programs" - fancy talk for a "recall" that may or may not be "mandatory" - come out and its not unusual for every technician to do one or two or one or two technicians to do them all. And you see lots of "trends" and by the time the 2nd or 3rd "machine X" has identical "issues" to the first "machine x" issues where its literally one of those "Never seen that problem with those before" situations that DO in fact occur REGULARLY for dealership personnel since every new model/model year that comes out is a guaranteed "first time I've seen that happen" WAITING TO HAPPEN, you pretty much know you're going to fix ALL the "machine Xes" sooner or later, you can "warn" the parts department to stock the necessary parts, you can drop a line via email to the manufacturer letting them know you've got a budding "epidemic" just in case you've got the "breakout" cases and you ALSO get experience with multiple "identical" but also "unique" machines. And LONG before most "gearheads" become "tradesmen", they KNOW "machines have souls" and are "individuals" and have their own "personalities" and no two are ever identical. Mechanics also know what parts either are "good" or are "failed" and that even if they're on their way to inevitable "failure", if that failure hasn't occurred yet, the part is "good" and the machine is "good" and any DIAGNOSTICS done to ONE must be done CAREFULLY to the others so no "bias" or "assumptions" creep in and lead to machines/parts being "condemned" that are just fine and DO need to be INSPECTED and CHECKED OVER and their CONDITION AND PERFORMANCE "VERIFIED" but just because a "broken" or "recalled" machine is in the shop or the tech is in the field to check it does not mean its "failed". Regardless of whether or not its going to or the customer thinks it has or the dealer/technician wants/needs the work, no PROFESSIONAL does unnecessary work. Because it doesn't SOLVE A PROBLEM when NONE EXISTS. And GOOD PROFESSIONALS NEVER "NEED THE WORK". MOST OF THE TIME THEY NEED "LESS". And they're ALSO not "afraid" to communicate to the customer that THEY ARE THE PROBLEM. Its OPERATOR ERROR, the MACHINE IS FINE AND IS FUNCTIONING CORRECTLY AND NO OTHER OPERATOR WILL HAVE A "PROBLEM" WITH IT AND THE CUSTOMER NEEDS TO BE "TRAINED" ON HOW TO OPERATE IT PROPERLY AND NEEDS "PRACTICE" DOING SO AND MAYBE A LITTLE "GUIDANCE" AND "TEACHING" FROM THE...PROFESSIONAL WHO IS THERE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. GOOD GUNSMITHS DON'T "TEAR APART" A RIFLE TO "ACCURRIZE" IT WITHOUT TEST-FIRING IT FIRST. WITH NO BASELINE AND NO DATA YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHERE TO START LOOKING FOR THE ACTUAL PROBLEM AND YOU CAN'T "WIN" IN THE END AND PROVE YOU "FIXED" IT AND "IMPROVED" ITS PERFORMANCE IF YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT PERFORMANCE WAS BEFORE YOU STARTED. AND YOU DAMNED SURE DON'T WANT THE "INCOMPETENT" WHO CAN'T SHOOT FOR SHIT PAYING YOU MONEY TO "SOLVE THE PROBLEM" THAT'S ALL HIM BY "TRUING" OR "BUILDING" OR "ACCURIZING" OR "RE-BARRELING" A FREAKING RIFLE THAT ISN'T "BROKEN". AT SOME POINT, "GUNSMITHS" LIKE THIS ONE WILL LEARN ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
Remington built their rifles to last for military & hunting , precision shooting came thru owners of the rifles looking for something else .The cost for a Rem. has always been far less that rifles just built for precision shooting.
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Im convinced they machine the bolt bore to .703 in the rear and .705 in the front. When I blueprinted my action back in 2012, i had to use the same size bushings to cut the bolt bore.
The rifles are still within 1-2 moa of accuracy. You have to accommodate for the receiver being untrue in the scope, but the rifles are still usually within 1-2. Remingtons custom rifles typically have more time throw into them though. I'm not cutting them slack, but they produce millions of rifles.
Guys QUIT re-cutting the internal threads ! Its not necessary just use a mandrel between centers and face the receiver . No mater how bad the threads are I've never seen on that needed to he re threaded , UNLESS someone did not lube the threads in a tight thread stainless barrel that has galled up on the receiver . I've built hundreds of Remington's and used them to win numerous national championships at Camp Perry . Might lap the lugs but thats about all .
I guess if you want a half ass job don't do the threads. They are usually out the worse of all the critical surfaces. I'm a precision rifle builder and every detail matters when it comes to accuracy. If 1-2 moa is good enough then blueprinting is not for you. But if you want to take out all the variables that something is square or concentric to the centerline, then this is a critical step when done correctly.
as a retired machinest and shooter it pisses me off big time how rifle manufacturers can t produce a more precision bolt toactio. tolerance...CZ the chezcoslavacian company has best fits
very slick man!! I really wish I would have learned to ba a machinist and went into this stuff. I love gun smithing but can't take it to this level.
May I ask: what make and model is your lathe? Looks like a good one. Hard to find a quality lathe these days, it seems.
Hi from the uk, great stuff here pal, looking forward to part two.
Andy.
Mr Cram, per chance do you have a blueprint of the lathe fixture you made ?
Do you blueprint m77 Ruger. Where you located
Is the factory incapable, or do they just not give a shit?
Also, how hard would it be to get it perfectly square and round down to the one millionth of an inch? Or one ten-millionth? Possible? Worth it for extreme accuracy?
# 3 correction a ni e long reamed and tight bore to hold the reamer straight with same on other side so everything will be in line..I am a retired machines and do some smithing for me and friends...that's how I see it
If the chamber is reamed concentrically to the bore, what difference does it make if the bolt face, bolt lugs, etc. are three to four thousandths off? In regards to rifle accuracy, it only matters that the bullet enters the rifling concentrically - and this is accomplished by a truly concentric chamber/bore relationship. All the action truing is just extra effort and cost that will never be realized in a rifle's accuracy by the shooter.
im still rather new to precision shooting but this was my understanding as well. kind of like people building precision ar-15's blowing their budget on expensive lowers and monolithic uppers... as if it effects accuracy
Hey Kevin, I’m curious how once you set the action in the large fixture, the point where the 4” dial end is all wobbly, how do you verify that the action itself is true inside the fixture? Thanks!
Ha! Nevermind I spoke too soon. That’s what you’re doing is setting the action true in the fixture!
@@ML-ks4wh the OD of the receiver is not critical, everything has to come off the ID of the action, Think of it as a datum, in a linear direction, and the run out as a datum in the perpendicular direction.
Could you do this to a Mosin Nagant? I know that probably sounds ridiculous to some people, but I'm serious about this. I will be buying a custom bull barrel for this build, and I even want to build a custom chassis if possible, but I don't see the point if I can't get somebody to blueprint the action.
+JC545X39 there are endless possibilities when it comes to mosins. Yes you can blueprint them and if you mess up, your only 150-200 bones down. Ive seen custom mosin builds shooting 1 moa with factory barrels and even some with the original stock setup barrel rings and all. So ya the potential is definitely there.
150-200 bones down plus whatever you've got in the "build" to that point. And you're "down" a rifle and either replace it and start over or do without whatever it was you hoped to end up with. "You're not out much if you screw it up" isn't exactly an intelligent, optimistic and productive way to approach a "build". And your ability to "blueprint" a Mosin is limited to your ability to find "good" used, worn-out parts from another scrapped/surplused rifle to "tighten up" areas of the rifle new parts and/or "rebuilding" aren't available/possible fore. Meanwhile, you can take the bare minimum you'll have in any "serious" Mosin "build" - $400-$500 - or LESS and go buy a high-quality, mass-produced, modern and far superior American bolt-action rifle and even a rifle/scope combo for "precision" work and save wear and tear on the tired old Mosin that's near and dear to your heart if you want to "build" it and eliminate any and all chance of "messing up" altogether. And you'll end up with a "shooter" that's so much "better" than the Mosin in every way - size, weight, ergonomics, accuracy, precision, ammunition options, "resale value", parts and service/repair availability etc etc etc that you really have to "mentally ill" to do the Mosin build. And by "mentally ill" I mean convinced that any amount of time and money are going to turn a worn-out old Communist-block mil-surp that was "obsolete" when brand new with its rimmed and oddball-caliber cartridge, into some kind of "sniper rifle" or that you'll be shooting "long-range" with it and aren't throwing away good money after bad even if the "build" goes "perfectly".
@@deeremeyer1749
Damn dude, can't you just let people like what they like?
Why do you have to tear everybody down all the time?
You must be a fucking peach to live with.
The bolt fixture is stainless steel os aluminum???
Are you located in Montour,County in Pa?
Yes he is.
Can a person take a factory barrel off and put a new on?
If you have the tools to set head space
what you want is a Remage barrel
Remember in ur video u said u had taper in reciever bore..well wat did u accomplish ?? U still have the taper and u altered the thread diameter..its no longer 1/16xby 16 pitch..😁
Typically I will see the receiver threads have taper. They get smaller towards the rear due to tool deflection when originally cut by Remington. Once the action is dialed in axial alignment to the center of the receiver, by single point boring the tops of the threads off for a 100% clean up and single point re-chasing the threads I am removing the taper and re-cutting the threads straight and concentric to the bolt bore raceway. Yes it will over size the thread tennon but it is still 16 tpi. Not a problem when installing a new barrel. I made gauges to measure the amount of oversize and transfer that onto the new barrel tennon. I only will blueprint an action that I will be installing a new barrel on.
Is that taper due to "tool deflection" or does it serve the same purpose taper serves in pipe threads assisting in locking the barrel in place and sealing the threads? Once upon a time rifles had open sights and the threads had to be cut very precisely to properly "clock" and "lock" the barrel in place when tightened to specs and properly aligned with the receiver. I tend to think if there is taper there Remington put it there for a reason. Especially when Remington brought out the 700 specifically to capitalize on Winchester's bastardization of the Model 70 beginning in 1965 and wasn't about to do sloppy half-assed work. Remington also had/has a long history of building some very complex rifles and pistols successfully and did so "back in the day" when Winchester was still playing with lever-action and pump-action long guns. 1911 pistols, Remington Autloading/Model 8/Model 81 rifles, license-built "copies" of John Brownings Auto-5 shotguns, etc. Those three designs are probably the most sophisticated and technically-demanding and precision-dependent gun designs John Browning ever came up with and were "ahead of their time" in a big way and required an insane amount of machining and precision and accuracy in tolerances, clearances, etc. to even "run" much less "run" well. I've got a 1914-manufactured Remington Model 8 Grade C in .35 Remington that's been well-used but not abused that will still knock out 2-3 MOA 100-yard groups with "cheap" reloads in Federal brass with 200-grain Hornady round-nose bullets and good old IMR4064 with open sights. And I'm not "benchrest" shooter on my best day. I think your theory on the reason that taper exists is pretty flawed. You can't cut threads incorrectly and have things go together correctly.
I hope you feel a bit better getting that rant off your chest :) It's clear to see you are all about rifle accuracy....lol. Anyone with any sort of common sense and reads your reply can tell you know absolutely nothing about what is involved in making a rifle accurate. 2-3 moa at 100 yards is not accurate, it's piss poor. I'm building rifles that are capable of sub 1/2 moa out to at least 1000 yards.
Thread taper intentionally cut into the receiver threads for accuracy ;-) That's an awesome thought but clearly untrue. Before you post such ludicrous comments do a bit more research before you spout off about something you know nothing about.
"Clearly untrue", huh? You sure about that? Do you have a set of "blueprints" for a factory Remington 700? One with dimensions, specifications and tolerances on it? How does Remington go about doing their "shoddy" machine work on those receivers/rifles they can't build right even after close to 60 years but you "gunsmiths" can "fix" WITHOUT A BLUEPRINT OR SPEC OR DIMENSION OR TOLERANCE TO BE FOUND IN YOUR VIDEOS? I laugh my ASS off at the "couple tenths" and "few thou" all you gun-guru heroes throw out as "lingo" when you're doing your "precision" gunsmithing. Tell me something else. Tell me EXACTLY WHAT EFFECT "TRUING" THE FRONT FACE OF THE RECEIVER HAS ON WHERE THE BARREL ENDS UP "POINTED" AND HOW YOU'RE "FIXING" THE RECEIVER'S "ISSUES" BUT THEN PUTTING IN A "BENT" BARREL YOU HAVE TO "CLOCK" THE BEND "UP" ON AS YOU INSTALL IT IN THE RECEIVER. What if those "few thou" are IN TOLERANCE for those receivers?
And isn't it pretty OBVIOUS they ARE "to spec" since Remington is the one deciding dimensions/specs/tolerances for its rifles? What is pretty much the ONLY "modern" commercial high-powered rifle/receiver made from day one to BE "rebuilt" and that has ALWAYS had factory replacement barrels available for it that ALSO has been around for more than 5 to 15 years or so? It ain't a Savage 110. They have those "easy to replace" barrels but SAVAGE DON'T SELL BARRELS ONLY FOR THEM. It ain't a Winchester Model 70 or a Ruger M77 or a Weatherby Mark 5 or Vanguard or a Browning A-Bolt or X-Bolt. It's the Remington 700. The GUNSMITH DREAM GUN. At least the NOOB GUNSMITH'S DREAM GUN. Just tell the customer its all fucked up but by God you can "fix" it just doing a little "truing" on it.
Cut some metal off the receiver here and take some material out of the BARREL THREADS THERE (it takes a special kind of stupid to try to "improve" THREADS by making them LOOSER) and do a little "perpendicularizing" in the "bolt lugs" (I'm pretty sure the BOLT LUGS ARE ON THE BOLT AND WHAT ARE IN THE RECEIVER ARE CALLED RECESSES OR GROOVES) and its a MIRACLE! A "gunsmith" is able to "fix" a "flawed" factory receiver even though he damn sure has to rely on SOME PART OF THAT "FLAWED" RECEIVER BEING "RIGHT" TO "PROVE" THE REST OF IT ISN'T. Pretty damned funny you "gunsmiths" act like a "couple thou" on that all-important receiver face is the difference between "shitty" accuracy and "world-class" precision but you've got no problem sticking "bent" barrels in them after you "true" them. And you brag about sub-MOA accuracy from your "builds" like there aren't half a dozen "cheap" mass-produced American bolt-action rifles that go for under $500 and in some cases under $300 that don't guarantee at least 1 MOA accuracy with factory ammo.
THAT was the POINT of me mentioning that 104 year old Remington Model 8 in my safe that shoots 2-3 MOA as-built in 1904 and as-designed by John Browning and with what basically amounts to a "shotgun" operating system since those Remington autloading rifles are pretty much the rifle counterpart of a Browning Auto-5 shotgun. To the extent that I just put a brand-new "Auto-5" BUFFER SPRING in my Model 8. Actually its the buffer spring for a Remington Model 11 shotgun but that's the "licensed" Remington version OF the Browning Auto-5.
Numrich Gun Parts was "sold out" of new RIFLE buffer springs for at least the last 3 years or so since I started looking for one after noticing my old Model 8 was kicking way too freaking hard for being loaded "light" even by .35 Remington specs. I happened to check again a few weeks ago and found a "note" on the replacement parts lists that a Model 11 spring can be substituted. Sure as shit. Made a "new" rifle out of it. Ready for another 100+ years of service.
Think any of your "builds" will still be shooting 100 years from now? Hell, you don't give a shit if they're still shooting five years after you "build" them. You're just another noob hack "gunsmith" out to make the "big bucks" suckering as many customers as possible into paying for "builds" with "junk" factory Remington parts that Remington can't build right but by GOD YOU CAN FIX!
Better make the big money while you can, chief. Big "booms" in the "gun business" are always cyclical, the bubbles burst and the more "builds" you do/sell now the less REAL "gunsmithing" you'll have to fall back on later. Smart gunsmiths DON'T ENCOURAGE THEIR CUSTOMERS TO BUY/BUILD SO-CALLED "CUSTOM" RIFLES BY "STRIPPING" FACTORY RIFLES OR BUYING "HIGH-END" AFTERMARKET PARTS. The GRAVY in the "gunsmithing business" is always in the "vintage" and "antique" and "hunting" and "plinking" rifles and shotguns and handguns owners have a sentimental attachment to.
Its not like you can depend on NEW or NEWLY REBUILT GUNS TO BREAK OR NEED REFINISHING OR HARD-TO-FIND PARTS FOUND OR MADE FOR THEM. And making "how-to" videos and flooding the internet with them? GOOD PLAN. WHEN ITS AS MUCH OF A PITA AS IT IS TO SHIP A GUN OR GUN PARTS ANYWHERE TO HAVE WORK DONE AND THERE'S STILL A HUGE "SHORTAGE" OF GUNSMITHS OR AT LEAST GOOD ONES NO MATTER HOW MANY OF YOU NOOBS ARE AROUND THESE DAYS, IT DON'T TAKE MUCH BRAINS TO FIGURE OUT A LOCAL MACHINE SHOP OR GOING TOGETHER WITH A BUDDY OR TWO TO BUY A CHEAP MADE IN CHINA BENCHTOP LATHE MIGHT BE BY FAR THE "EASIEST" AND "CHEAPEST" WAY TO "BUILD" OR RE-BARREL A RIFLE OR THREE.
All you're doing it "training" your potential customers to not need you. Good plan. But since I'm pretty much "retired" from the diesel mechanic thing, I've been a "gun nut" since birth LONG before drew a breath and I've done just a LITTLE machine work along the way including boring Cat cylinder blocks for liner counterbore inserts, cylinder head rebuild including valve seat and guide replacement AND I've got plenty of my own guns to "practice" on AND I know CUSTOMER SERVICE and how to be a PROFESSIONAL and how to COVER MY ASS AND MAKE THE CUSTOMER HAPPY AND MAKE MONEY AND HOW TO MAKE "EASY" MONEY SELLING "ADVICE" AND "TRAINING" HELPING A CUSTOMER WITH A RIFLE THAT "WON'T SHOOT" LEARN TO SHOOT BETTER IF THAT'S THE PROBLEM AND I CAN CHARGE $50 PER HOUR TO SHOOT AND "WEAR OUT" HIS TOOLS - I.E. HIS RIFLE(S) DOING SOME "LOAD DEVELOPMENT" INSTEAD OF USING AND "WEARING OUT" MY OWN TOOLS DOING SHOP WORK TO "FIX" SOMETHING THAT AIN'T BROKE AND THAT WILL STILL BE BROKE AFTER "TRAINING" AND "LOAD DEVELOPMENT" IF IT IS BROKE, I'm a little closer to calling MYSELF a "gunsmith" every day. For a while I was worried that all the hack and half-assed "gunsmiths" and "gunsmithing" all over the internet in "how-to" videos might "make me look bad" if I decided to be a "gunsmith".
Then I realized that there's no way in hell any of you all can make ME anything but MONEY. "Gunsmith" is just a word anyway. Like "mechanic" or "plumber" or "electrician". A grass-green rookie right out of school or an apprenticeship can call himself or herself a "gunsmith" or "mechanic" or "plumber" or "electrician" first day on the job. But if they DO wait that long to "identify" as a "member" of whatever "trade", it ain't in their blood, their brothers and sisters in the trade will know they're "phoning it in" and at some point so will their customer's. Especially if they seem more like the "teaching" type than the "doing" type and don't get that being in the trades isn't about "fixing" or "building" machines or buildings. Its about solving problems. Problems you have to know as much as possible about going in so you know you've solved them going out.
And the most profitable and enjoyable "problem solving" is that which requires as little real effort, stress, expense and "investment" on the part of the trades person as possible. Its GREAT to really love what you do and ENJOY tearing apart some "broken" machine and fix it and not work a day in your life because its literally what you'd probably be paying to do as a "DIYer" IF you hadn't ended up in the trades.
But its also damned nice to get paid to talk to a customer and "train" them in how to properly or more effectively operate/use their machines and REALLY fun to tell them you don't HAVE to tear their machine apart because its not "broken" after all OR you found something "minor" and it was or will be a "quick fix". A guy not only WANTS those "easy" jobs once in a while and WANTS to tell the occasional customer as tactfully as possible their problem is "operator error", but NEEDS TO. BIG JOB AFTER BIG JOB AND WORKED PILED UP ALL AROUND GETS OLD AND IT TAKES A LOT OF THE "FUN" RIGHT THE HELL OUT OF BEING A "GEARHEAD" IN A TECHNICAL TRADE DOING WHAT YOU LOVE.
And that kind of work load means you spend tons of time chasing parts and contacting customers and jumping from job to job trying to stay busy even when you may not have what you need for any of the projects exactly when you want/need it. Having an "easy one" come in and especially one that might get you away from the "grind" for a few hours and that you can and will charge the customer for regardless but ends up being "pure profit" because you're not putting anything but your time and skill and ability and knowledge to work test-firing his or her gun for them?
That's what professionals in the trade call "gravy". And maybe selling a "shooting lesson" or two or some "load development" time and sending them home happy gun in hand after a few hours of "playing" on their dime and without having to spend any money out of your own pocket or wear out any expensive tools or "float" any expensive parts bills until "payday" after a big repair project? And basically you get a "day" or even just a morning or afternoon "off" even IF you have to "work" on a Saturday or Sunday to do it and normally don't work weekends? That's called "Fuckin' old Shep". Doing damn near nothing but still "working" and getting paid for it and in a situation where you literally can't lose.
Someday when you find the customer who can't shoot for shit and blames that on you, you'll learn.
How much?
Does all this dialing to a tenth and holding your mouth right and sacrificing virgins really make much difference?
more than you can imagine.
price for trueing please im interested.
CDN $500.00 +
I've sent too many times how some gunsmiths true up a rem 700 actions an I can't agree with how they do it..first of all when u bore out a bolt raceway you have made a decision that that surface is the master surface where all the truing will be done. meaning that now your tennon barrel threads are out of line with the bolt raceway......think ??? that means we have to re-chase the receiver threads to match the raceway bolt bore ?????? the receiver threads should always be the master poi t where we do our machining period...its one pain in the ass to pick up internal threads.also your Remington dimensions are altered from 1/16 by 16 to who knows what sorry the receiver threads should always be the master point do do the job
Sam, I think the whole point is the threads may not be and usually aren't threaded to the center axis of the action bore. Which would then mean if you use the threads as a "master surface" the bolt center line, bolt lugs, bolt face will all be off cent to the barrel bore. Truing the internal threads after cutting about .010" off and truing them to center isn't that big of a deal.
And "trimming" the threads is going to "fix" that situation HOW? You don't AIM the BACK of a barrel and the barrel bore doesn't HAVE to be precisely aligned with the receiver bolt bore to have an accurate and precise rifle. Its just AMAZING how many absolute TACK-DRIVER FACTORY ORIGINAL AND DECADES-OLD 700s there are out there even though Remington apparently couldn't/can't build its own design to its own specs or at least whatever "specs" all these "gunsmiths" who think THEY CAN "FIX" WHAT REMINGTON FUCKED UP, isn't it? And the CENTER OR AXIS OF THE "ACTION" DOESN'T MEAN JACK SHIT BECAUSE THE BULLET GOES THROUGH THE BARREL AND OUT THE MUZZLE END.
I'm YET to see a single "gun expert" like you or any of the huge herd of "gunsmiths" who literally find "issues" with EVERY ONE OF THE MILLIONS OF 700 THEY COLLECTIVELY MUST HAVE "FIXED" SINCE THEY'RE ALL "EXPERTS" ON THEM AND USUALLY CLAIM TO HAVE WORKED ON THEM BY THE TRUCKLOAD COME UP WITH EVEN A FACTORY "BLUEPRINT" TO CHECK A FACTORY RIFLE AGAINST MUCH LESS A "BLUEPRINT" FOR ALL THE STUPID UNNECESSARY SHIT YOU THINK HAS TO BE DONE TO MAKE A 700 "SHOOT". But back to "truing" INTERNAL THREADS. If its NOT A BIG DEAL WHEN YOU'RE "CUTTING ABOUT .010" OFF" HOW IN THE HELL CAN IT POSSIBLY HELP?
AND IF YOU TAKE THAT .010" OF EQUALLY, YOU HAVEN'T DONE A DAMNED THING EXCEPT "RUIN" THE FACTORY THREADS REMINGTON CUT IN THOSE RECEIVERS TO THEIR SPECS FOR A REASON. THAT REASON BEING BECAUSE TO REMINGTON IT WAS A "BIG DEAL" THAT THOSE THREADS BE A SPECIFIC DEPTH, PITCH AND PROFILE.
IN EVERY OTHER TECHNICAL TRADE AND PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO HIGH-PRESSURE/HIGH-LOAD/HIGH-STRESS FASTENERS THAT HAVE TO KEEP COMPLEX, SOPHISTICATED AND PRECISELY-ENGINEERED AND CONSTRUCTED MACHINES IN "ONE PIECE", WE DON'T EVEN "CHASE" THREADS WITH A REGULAR TAP OR DIE IF WE CAN POSSIBLY HELP IT BECAUSE TAPS AND DIES CUT THREADS, NO TWO ARE ALIKE AND NO SINGLE ONE IS "PERFECT" AND YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE THREAD MATERIAL WITH THE DEBRIS YOU "CHASE" OUT OF THE THREADS. THAT'S WHY WE BUY/MAKE THESE TOOLS CALLED "THREAD CHASERS". AND ITS PRETTY MUCH UNHEARD OF FOR A MECHANIC, ELECTRICIAN, PLUMBER, WELDER, FABRICATOR TO "RE-ENGINEER" A MACHINE BUILT TO THE MANUFACTURER'S SPECS EVEN WHEN WE DO ACTUALLY HAVE A LEGITIMATE NEED TO "TEAR IT APART" AND REPAIR SOME "ISSUE" IT HAS. WE ALSO PRETTY MUCH HAVE TO DO THIS THING CALLED "VERIFYING THE CUSTOMER'S COMPLAINT". THAT MEANS IF THE CUSTOMER SAYS HIS CAR OR HOUSEHOLD WIRING OR PLUMBING IS FUCKING UP, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE IT'S FUCKING UP AND THAT WE CAN "DUPLICATE" THE "FAILURE".
WE DO THAT TO KNOW AS MUCH ABOUT THE PROBLEMS FROM THE "PATIENT'S" SIDE OF THINGS AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE CUSTOMER'S TEND TO NEED HELP WITH PROBLEMS AND TEND TO TALK TO "PROBLEM SOLVERS" WHEN SHIT COULD BE GOING BETTER FOR THEM, THEY'RE STRESSED, THEY'RE NOT HAPPY ABOUT BEING "BROKE DOWN" AND BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD OR HAVE HEARD OF "PROFESSIONALS" IN THE "TECHNICAL TRADES" DOING UNNECESSARY WORK AND MAKING UP SHIT TO "FIX" JUST TO SCREW SOMEBODY OUT OF THEIR MONEY.
OFTEN THEY HAVE ALSO EXPERIENCED/HEARD ABOUT SITUATIONS WHERE NOTHING GOT FIXED OR EVEN CHECKED PERIOD BEFORE THE BILL WAS PAID AND THE JOB "DONE" AND THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY "OBSESSED" WITH MAKING SURE THEY "COMMUNICATE" TO THE "PROBLEM SOLVER" EVERYTHING THEY KNOW ABOUT THE PROBLEM, THEY END UP COMMUNICATING NOTHING OF VALUE. AND WHEN MONEY IS AN ISSUE AND IT ALWAYS IS FOR SOMEONE(S) INVOLVED IN THE "BUSINESS TRANSACTION) THEY TEND TO "BEST-CASE" PROBLEMS, FORGET IMPORTANT DETAILS AND CONVINCE THEMSELVES AND TRY TO CONVINCE THE "PROBLEM SOLVER" THAT ITS "NOT THAT SERIOUS".
AND EVERY NOW AND THEN ITS THE CUSTOMER WHO IS THE PROBLEM AND ITS ALL "OPERATOR ERROR" WITH NOTHING WRONG WITH THE MACHINE AT ALL. SO WE "VERIFY THE COMPLAINT" FIRST AND FOREMOST. AND WHEN WE'VE "SOLVED THE PROBLEM" OR BELIEVE WE HAVE, WE MAKE AS MUCH OF AN EFFORT AS IT TAKES TO SATISFY US THAT WE HAVE IN FACT SOLVED IT TO VERIFY THAT WE'VE SOLVED IT. THAT ALL ADDS UP TO TEST-DRIVES AND DIAGNOSTICS AND PERHAPS HAVING TO TURN A BUNCH OF LIGHTS AND APPLIANCES ON IN A HOME TO PUT SUFFICIENT LOAD ON THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM TO CHECK FOR WEAK BREAKERS OR BAD CONNECTIONS, ETC. AND THEN WHEN WE'RE DONE WE DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO DO EXACTLY THE SAME TESTS THAT WE DID TO BEGIN WITH PLUS ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING ELSE WE CAN THINK OF TO "VERIFY THE REPAIR".
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ONE OF THESE "GUNSMITHS" TEST-FIRE A RIFLE THEY'RE "REPAIRING" OR "ACCURIZING" OR "BUILDING" OR "RE-BARRELING" BEFORE AND/OR AFTER THEIR "REPAIR". TO MAKE SURE THAT ITS PERFORMING "TO SPECS" BEFORE THEY THROW A LOT OF THEIR TIME AND MONEY AND THE CUSTOMERS TIME AND MONEY AT IT BASED UPON PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS ABOUT HOW IT MUST BE "OFF" AND NEED "TRUED" BECAUSE ITS A REMINGTON 700? HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A VIDEO WHERE THE "GUNSMITH" PUTS THE DIAL INDICATOR ON THE SPINDLE OR TAILSTOCK OF HIS LATHE OR ON THE FACE OF THE CHUCK TO VERIFY THE TOOL THEY USE AND HAVE USED EVERY TIME OR AT LEAST PREVIOUSLY WHEN THE FOUND "BAD" REMINGTON 700 RECEIVERS ISN'T THE WHOLE DAMNED PROBLEM AND THE REASON WHY EVERY ONE THEY WORK ON IS "OFF" AND IN A REMARKABLY CONSISTENT WAY SINCE THEY ALWAYS MENTION HOW THEY'RE "ALL" OFF "ABOUT" X "THOU"?
I GUARANTEE YOU PROFESSIONAL, QUALITY GUNSMITHS DO EXACTLY THAT. AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE TIME FOR AND DON'T NEED TO WASTE THE TIME ON "TRUING" EVERY DAMNED REMINGTON 700 SOME GUY THEY DON'T KNOW CAN HIT THE BROAD SIDE OF A BARN FROM 10 FEET AWAY UNLESS THEY'VE PERSONALLY SEEN HIM SHOOT HAPPENS TO DRAG IN THE FRONT DOOR WANTING A "GUNSMITH" TO MAKE IT "SHOOT". IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE AN UNPROFESSIONAL "GUNSMITH" WHO DOESN'T HAVE SO MUCH WORK THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE PLENTY OF FREE TIME AND APPARENTLY A NEED TO MAKE "COMMERCIALS" FOR HIS "GUNSMITHING" AND HE CLAIMS TO HAVE WORKED ON "MULTIPLE" REMINGTON 700s and claims they're ALL "off" and need "trued" to "shoot", and he has used the same tools over and over to somehow both "verify" that the parts are "off" having never fired the rifle personally to "fix" the "bad" parts by removing yet more steel from them AND all so a new "bent" barrel he has to "clock" to make it "bend up" because not even the BEST AND MOST EXPENSIVE "PREMIUM" BARRELS HE SWEARS UP AND DOWN BY ARE "GOOD" AND "STRAIGHT" AND "TRUE" and this is all in response to some "random shooter" walking in with yet another Remington 700 that "won't shoot" or at least not "good enough" FOR HIM that its REALLY THE REMINGTON 700s that are the consistent "problem"?
I spent a lot of years as a dealership service technician working on John Deere farm equipment and Caterpillar heavy equipment and Ford/New Holland/Versatile farm equipment. "Fleet" type work in a lot of cases where if we had ONE of "machine x" in a customer's inventory, we usually had 2 to 2 dozen of them scattered around our "area of responsibility". PIPs or "Product Improvement Programs" - fancy talk for a "recall" that may or may not be "mandatory" - come out and its not unusual for every technician to do one or two or one or two technicians to do them all. And you see lots of "trends" and by the time the 2nd or 3rd "machine X" has identical "issues" to the first "machine x" issues where its literally one of those "Never seen that problem with those before" situations that DO in fact occur REGULARLY for dealership personnel since every new model/model year that comes out is a guaranteed "first time I've seen that happen" WAITING TO HAPPEN, you pretty much know you're going to fix ALL the "machine Xes" sooner or later, you can "warn" the parts department to stock the necessary parts, you can drop a line via email to the manufacturer letting them know you've got a budding "epidemic" just in case you've got the "breakout" cases and you ALSO get experience with multiple "identical" but also "unique" machines.
And LONG before most "gearheads" become "tradesmen", they KNOW "machines have souls" and are "individuals" and have their own "personalities" and no two are ever identical. Mechanics also know what parts either are "good" or are "failed" and that even if they're on their way to inevitable "failure", if that failure hasn't occurred yet, the part is "good" and the machine is "good" and any DIAGNOSTICS done to ONE must be done CAREFULLY to the others so no "bias" or "assumptions" creep in and lead to machines/parts being "condemned" that are just fine and DO need to be INSPECTED and CHECKED OVER and their CONDITION AND PERFORMANCE "VERIFIED" but just because a "broken" or "recalled" machine is in the shop or the tech is in the field to check it does not mean its "failed". Regardless of whether or not its going to or the customer thinks it has or the dealer/technician wants/needs the work, no PROFESSIONAL does unnecessary work. Because it doesn't SOLVE A PROBLEM when NONE EXISTS. And GOOD PROFESSIONALS NEVER "NEED THE WORK". MOST OF THE TIME THEY NEED "LESS". And they're ALSO not "afraid" to communicate to the customer that THEY ARE THE PROBLEM. Its OPERATOR ERROR, the MACHINE IS FINE AND IS FUNCTIONING CORRECTLY AND NO OTHER OPERATOR WILL HAVE A "PROBLEM" WITH IT AND THE CUSTOMER NEEDS TO BE "TRAINED" ON HOW TO OPERATE IT PROPERLY AND NEEDS "PRACTICE" DOING SO AND MAYBE A LITTLE "GUIDANCE" AND "TEACHING" FROM THE...PROFESSIONAL WHO IS THERE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
GOOD GUNSMITHS DON'T "TEAR APART" A RIFLE TO "ACCURRIZE" IT WITHOUT TEST-FIRING IT FIRST. WITH NO BASELINE AND NO DATA YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHERE TO START LOOKING FOR THE ACTUAL PROBLEM AND YOU CAN'T "WIN" IN THE END AND PROVE YOU "FIXED" IT AND "IMPROVED" ITS PERFORMANCE IF YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT PERFORMANCE WAS BEFORE YOU STARTED. AND YOU DAMNED SURE DON'T WANT THE "INCOMPETENT" WHO CAN'T SHOOT FOR SHIT PAYING YOU MONEY TO "SOLVE THE PROBLEM" THAT'S ALL HIM BY "TRUING" OR "BUILDING" OR "ACCURIZING" OR "RE-BARRELING" A FREAKING RIFLE THAT ISN'T "BROKEN". AT SOME POINT, "GUNSMITHS" LIKE THIS ONE WILL LEARN ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
DEEREMEYER1 dude...shut the fuck up!!
@@deeremeyer1749 what a pile of incoherent, babbling B. S.
could i have you email or contact # about some of your machine work on my rifle
Remington built their rifles to last for military & hunting , precision shooting came thru owners of the rifles looking for something else .The cost for a Rem. has always been far less that rifles just built for precision shooting.
Kingston HS-1100