Agree w/your approach, RWY10 at TFFJ feels especially tough without drag. I'm using FSUIPC7 and have the reversers mapped into the throttle axis (calibrated to use about the last 30% of travel in reverse), which helps me a bit. The added control makes it a lot easier to dip gently into reverse and smoothly bring it back into idle so I don't have the plane sitting on it's tail. A physical detent would be nice, but muscle memory is working well enough.
Interesting, I got here by searching for Twin electrical information for my copilots. I have been flying the Twin for the past 15 years, 95% of it on floats, so its all STOL type of flying. You are correct in your statement regarding the props, a well rigged props make a huge difference in the landing distance as well as taxi characteristics (important on water, no brakes). As a point of interest, the "factory" wheel airplane rigging provides too much forward thrust for true STOL operations. The "unofficial, seaplane" rigging provides about 5 psi less Torque, the prop blades are at much flatter angle then the factory setting at flight idle. This is called the prime blade angle setting, if you want to check it, you simply advance the power till you get 77% Np or prop rpm. STOL value is about 21 psi TQ, factory is 26 psi or so. Since you seem to be switched on and like this stuff, please take care when using the "reverse" term. In terms of the sim, the sim model might actually have only "reverse prop airflow" in it's model. The actual airplane has two prop control modes, the constant speed via prop gov and beta mode via the beta valve, prop feedback ring, carbon block, beta cable and finally CSU mounted cam cluster. The beta (or prop angle control) starts in flight with roughly 10 TQ and around 80 knots, at this point moving the prop levers should not change the prop rpm. Within Beta range, you have flight idle, this is the rigging I mentioned above, once you twist the grips and start moving the power lever back, you are still in positive thrust, the blades are going flatter and the engine should remain at idle. This is called the null range, once the prop passes zero it finally achieves reveres, at this point the cam also starts to add more engine power. This takes close to half of the backwards travel of the power lever. On big water, windy and challenging days at times we do twist the grips at few feet over the water and really just adjust the blade angle to a bit more fine angle. This simply plops the aircraft right into the into the little spot of good water. It works like a charm, its not a violent drop. As we do not have the beta backup system (the 400 did away with it as well as it was a very problematic system especially on floats) no aircraft safety systems are bypassed by these actions. Getting bit long, your technique is what is used at times with the real airplane, its not reverse, its flight idle, in flight blade angle adjustment.
Thanks for all that. The current (MSFS) model of the Twin Otter really isn't done with enough detail for any of this to be of practical value, but it would be a good project to create a physical implementation of the behaviour you describe. I mean with full-size and correctly-operating power levers and whatever programming would be needed to get the correct behaviours. Microsoft is said to be still playing with the prop and turboprop engine simulations so it's possible in time that we will get some of this. If you look back you will see I had a more detailed physical cockpit setup with the older (FSX/P3D( versio of the Twin Otter. I liked to kid myself that was 'realistic', but it really wasn't :)
@@AlmostAviation Actually I got to your channel when looking for some training material for my Asian copilots. Their understanding of the systems is so poor after my best attempts to teach them. In some older videos of yours (like 7 years ago) I noticed some inconsistencies with the real airplane, but its impressive and cool what you have done with your sim set up. I truly love the Twin Otter, next to the DC3 and the T6, which both I have flown, the Twin is my girl. This airplane can do some amazing things, it has saved my life few times and it's cool that you have interest in it.
As announced by MS/Asobo, there will be a modification of the prop modeling in SU8 and hopefully that will allow proper drag figures on landing with idle PL.
Thanks for this. Interesting. When they get the new prop physics incorporated it will make a huge difference I suspect. I hope that you will do a full review in due course, maybe after the next couple of updates. Cheers.
Agree w/your approach, RWY10 at TFFJ feels especially tough without drag. I'm using FSUIPC7 and have the reversers mapped into the throttle axis (calibrated to use about the last 30% of travel in reverse), which helps me a bit. The added control makes it a lot easier to dip gently into reverse and smoothly bring it back into idle so I don't have the plane sitting on it's tail. A physical detent would be nice, but muscle memory is working well enough.
Interesting, I got here by searching for Twin electrical information for my copilots. I have been flying the Twin for the past 15 years, 95% of it on floats, so its all STOL type of flying. You are correct in your statement regarding the props, a well rigged props make a huge difference in the landing distance as well as taxi characteristics (important on water, no brakes). As a point of interest, the "factory" wheel airplane rigging provides too much forward thrust for true STOL operations. The "unofficial, seaplane" rigging provides about 5 psi less Torque, the prop blades are at much flatter angle then the factory setting at flight idle. This is called the prime blade angle setting, if you want to check it, you simply advance the power till you get 77% Np or prop rpm. STOL value is about 21 psi TQ, factory is 26 psi or so.
Since you seem to be switched on and like this stuff, please take care when using the "reverse" term. In terms of the sim, the sim model might actually have only "reverse prop airflow" in it's model. The actual airplane has two prop control modes, the constant speed via prop gov and beta mode via the beta valve, prop feedback ring, carbon block, beta cable and finally CSU mounted cam cluster. The beta (or prop angle control) starts in flight with roughly 10 TQ and around 80 knots, at this point moving the prop levers should not change the prop rpm. Within Beta range, you have flight idle, this is the rigging I mentioned above, once you twist the grips and start moving the power lever back, you are still in positive thrust, the blades are going flatter and the engine should remain at idle. This is called the null range, once the prop passes zero it finally achieves reveres, at this point the cam also starts to add more engine power. This takes close to half of the backwards travel of the power lever.
On big water, windy and challenging days at times we do twist the grips at few feet over the water and really just adjust the blade angle to a bit more fine angle. This simply plops the aircraft right into the into the little spot of good water. It works like a charm, its not a violent drop. As we do not have the beta backup system (the 400 did away with it as well as it was a very problematic system especially on floats) no aircraft safety systems are bypassed by these actions.
Getting bit long, your technique is what is used at times with the real airplane, its not reverse, its flight idle, in flight blade angle adjustment.
Thanks for all that. The current (MSFS) model of the Twin Otter really isn't done with enough detail for any of this to be of practical value, but it would be a good project to create a physical implementation of the behaviour you describe. I mean with full-size and correctly-operating power levers and whatever programming would be needed to get the correct behaviours. Microsoft is said to be still playing with the prop and turboprop engine simulations so it's possible in time that we will get some of this.
If you look back you will see I had a more detailed physical cockpit setup with the older (FSX/P3D( versio of the Twin Otter. I liked to kid myself that was 'realistic', but it really wasn't :)
@@AlmostAviation Actually I got to your channel when looking for some training material for my Asian copilots. Their understanding of the systems is so poor after my best attempts to teach them. In some older videos of yours (like 7 years ago) I noticed some inconsistencies with the real airplane, but its impressive and cool what you have done with your sim set up. I truly love the Twin Otter, next to the DC3 and the T6, which both I have flown, the Twin is my girl. This airplane can do some amazing things, it has saved my life few times and it's cool that you have interest in it.
@@pawelwolski1316 Thanks, it is nice to get such positive feedback from a genuine authority!
As announced by MS/Asobo, there will be a modification of the prop modeling in SU8 and hopefully that will allow proper drag figures on landing with idle PL.
Yes, I watched the video and it seems like a big step forward!
beautiful
Good job !
Hey! You should try lady Elliot Island, not sure if it’s modelled In FS2020 but we fly twin otters there daily 👍🏻
I'll have a look, I think I want to do some more STOL videos...
Thanks for this. Interesting. When they get the new prop physics incorporated it will make a huge difference I suspect. I hope that you will do a full review in due course, maybe after the next couple of updates. Cheers.