While this video is presented as not biased, we can feel some bias in favor of Tesla. - Why not go for 10 years, so both cars are out of their warranty? - Can you really compare the craftsmanship of those two cars? I was in both (models 2020), and while Tesla upped their game, it is still not a real premium. It is getting close, but it is not. - I actually had two BMWs, and never had any major repair. The biggest one was some rubber parts on the rear bumper. But that was because someone reared me. The car that reared me was smashed. BMW is well known for lasting long. Here, in Europe, you can buy some with 300'000km and people are buying cause they are still good. Does this mean they never have a problem? No, of course, they have. But from what I saw (and I follow the car market a lot), big problems are rather exceptions that rule. So that cost that you calculated for BMW is just not realistic. - Why go for PHEV model? We know that is the most complex system that there is in the car industry today. Comparing to an electric car that is the simplest one is not fair. A 530xd would be much better. Tesla as representative of electric cars is the future of automobiles. But that does not mean that we need to be biased. Tesla is still growing and learning. To believe that other brands will just watch and do nothing is fullish. Next year will be very interesting as many new electric cars will hit the market. Some were supposed to show already this year, but we all know what is happening. So, they were delayed. In the end, financially, both cars are a COST. Not investment. With your money, you chose in which one you will feel better. Me, I never buy new cars. Cars lose most of their value in the first 2-3 years. No need to throw money away.
Agree. If you are willing to put out that kind of money you probably don't care as much for the total ownership cost. If you want to be economic about it, both cars are just a big economic waste. Just buy the one you like the most.
As a European citizen, this is so true. A 2017 520-530D would cost half compared to a 2017 Model S. And it's a better car in many aspects. You just have to buy the right one. EV's have a long future ahead, but they are still hard to justify in many countries unless you get a big government discount.
I too agree. I have had BMW's for 40 years, and haven't really had major issues until the E46. It does appear modern BMW's may leak oil like a sieve on time from valve cover, oil pan and oil filter housing. That being said my 2008 E60 did not spring those leaks, but did leak from the oil cooler. $10 parts, my labor (about an hour). Not sure about dealer costs. The maintenance quoted for the BMW is probably valid - it is a pay me now, pay me later proposition. I too question the durability of the small displacement turbo charged engine, although on a 530e, 120,000 miles may only rack up 60,000 to 80,000 miles on the ICE depending on the driving situation. I would also propose you will not be replacing brakes at the rate mentioned in the analysis. Many early owners are reporting they are still driving around on their original brakes. Elsewhere in here too, others questioned the lack of brake maintenance, or a fluid change is rolled up in the $600 every two year Tesla maintenance. I have been living with a 2020 AWD 530e for a year. Have put about 3,500 miles on it, about half full electric. Very enjoyable car. One last point. I don't know if I would want an EV after the battery life is expended. I will say if my ICE engine holds out, depletion of batter performance isn't quite as much of an issue.
As soon as he used a 335i as his maintenance cost model, I knew where this video was going. Twin turbo v6 is not equal to a little Mini Cooper engine for repairs.
the comparison seems a bit flawed because the two vehicles are substantially different: with the bmw you are never stranded / no range anxiety and plus it looks 100 times better. To my eyes (and I know that beauty is subjective) Teslas look like cheap Japanese cars while the BMW looks luxurious and super well proportioned.
When you make tests that favors Tesla every time. Make it a biased test. Turbos dont need to be changed at all. Im At 180k miles on the same turbo, on my 20 year old car. So that is the same that you need to change the screen in the S every 4 years... And that is not a cheap screen... 2-3k plus installation. Information from Rich Rebuild and his team of repairmen dedicated to repair these things. Also there os alot of servicing you also dont take to account. Brakefluid need to be changed every 2 years. Coolant same thing. It dont last forever. Also there is oilchanges on these electric motors. There have been people paying well 2k for their first service of their S, X and 3. Also how much is it worth of you driving your car? Teslas are know to be standing still and wait for repairs most of the time. As well it can only be repaired at the local Tesla service center, with parts from Tesla. People around here that have been without their car for month, because missing parts. Got better. But not good enough that I dare buy one another. One Tesla is more than enough after you finally got rid of the trash. They are on so bad condition that a ordinary carmaker would get fined for deliver this crap. So if Tesla competing on the same conditions as all other car makers, with the same quality morale as other carmakers have to endure, and Tesla not. NO ONE would buy a Tesla. They are just have that poor quality you expect from chinese cars.
Well in general it's stupid to assume repair cost. Because its never the same for everyone. Pretty much my grudge against this video and many others with their "true cost". Oh and I didn't understand why include the resale value... it's pointless as it would again never be the same. They are both pretty good cars though.
Especially since there have been consistent reports of bad finish quality with Teslas having interesting panel gaps or issues with paint and the vehicle leaves the factory anyway!
I actually owned a Tesla that was over 8 yrs old and over 100000 miles and in my experience the maintenance was a bit more than your estimates... especially the tires which needed to be replaced often. Other than that I thought the analysis was interesting.
It is very unlikely for a BMW to have those repairing costs in the first five years. I've owned several BMWs and, aside from maintainance costs (which you don't pay in the first 100 000km) you'd have to be very unlucky to spend so much money in repairs. On the other hand, if both cars cost basically the same after 8 years, the fact that with a BMW you are not exclusively dependent of a wire to go wherever you want makes the choice pretty easy to me.
You can buy a used 2017 530e for less than 30k€. For the same price you can only get a 2013 Model S with 200k+ km. And good luck with those out of warranty... You only see the savings if you plan to buy both brand new and drive a LOT every single day. A model 3 /Leaf / Zoe / Kona EV makes a lot more sense if the goal is to save money.
You forgot the cost of replacing the battery pack on both vehicles. At 150.000miles the Tesla batteries are well below 70% in range capability and the BMW will have similar figures but the BMW doesn't get range challenged in the same way. Also Tesla requires special servicesstations for your guarantee to be valid. And the turbos going out is a pure case of not servicing the turbo and/or manipulating the boost figures (not unusual, and a bad tune wrecks the turbo). Tuning on the Tesla is done by upgrade but doesn't transfer to the next owner, but will reduce the battery capacity faster.
Well especially since the specific motor that is in the 530e has been bullet proofed because of legal action against the proceeding generations of the 4 cyl turbo also known as the N20. There is a current TSB out for the motor where the dealership will inspect the suspect part for free and if they find something wrong they will take care of it free of charge as well. Another to consider as well is that if you are responsible and keep up with the maintenance of a BMW they will last a long time and perform well at the same time.
I have a BMW 520D 2014 approaching 100.000 miles and all this talk about turbos failing at around that mark and costing 5000 dollars to replace had me worried so I went to take a look online: it costs about 500€ euros here in Italy to replace a broken turbo with a new one, provided you send the spare turbo factory your old broken turbo. Quite a difference from the 5000$ claimed in this video but of course it’s possible, the USA and Italy are worlds apart and maybe you can’t really compare the two situations, I am just glad I am not sitting a 5k time bomb :)
American don't understand the european cars. They also never read the brochure and don't know how to run them. Hence why they stick to the boring Japanese cars. Their electric fleets are like appliances .
@@superfly19751 i know this was two years ago, but i doubt it was ever this much. Even today, with inflation, BMW offers a 3 oil changes for $200 package. Last oil change I paid for about 3 years ago was for around $70-80.
Really? So all those 8yrs+ BMW s on sale(all over the world) as the second-hand car with very high mileage are just ghosts? I think that you do not enough about them. Please inform yourself.
@@carholic-sz3qv Na, I have a 20 yr old Dodge Dakota short bed with 200k miles. I replaced one starter motor - that's it. I'm still on the original clutch and transmission! But people are right about those lux German costs - if you want ot maintain them beyond the 3 year lease it will cost you seriously.
I was thinking the exact same thing. The only thing it doesn't need really is the oil and trans fluid replacement. All other servicing needs to be done. A friend of mine works at a mechanic shop and tire dealership and more often then not the Teslas need to change tires and bearings more often due to the wheight
This is not really fair. Obviously, this guy is an electric aficionado who has a channel that talks positive about electrics vs ICE. At the eight years for the BMW has been pretty much items that might need to be fixed are replaced. The Tesla is waiting for its pretty much power train is needing to be replaced-meaning the battery. That is HUGE. Not a fair comparison at all.
Aside from the repair cost and maybe the fuel/electricity cost. The rest is pretty spot on. Repair cost you should've took an average from somewhere, I highly doubt it would cost 5k for someone to repair their bmw after only 5 years while the first 4 years is already covered. How unlucky do you gotta be.
Our BMW turbo went bad after 6 years and cost $5,600 to replace. When I handed the check to the BMW service person, I said, "You know I am buying a Tesla after this because it does not have a turbo." They said they have been hearing that a lot lately.
@@billcichoke2534 I doubt that. It would be far more accurate if you said that most people who buy a new combustion engine car aren't the kind who wants a EV. That would atleast be true so far. What you are presenting is just a prejudice of sorts.
@@billcichoke2534 I have a BMW, and am fearing the day something breaks. Last years it's only been small stuff at around 3000€ per year... I'm also getting a Tesla next.
We just bought a 2018 530e w/27k miles for $33k. Full electric mode to drop off kids and back (~20 miles) plug it in & can do it again to pick up! Bought solar panels on house, payment is cheaper than electric bill.
I just picked up a 2018 530e with 35k miles for $27k certified preowned from local BMW dealer. Warranty til Sept 2023 and single occupancy carpool lane sticker good til Jan 2023. I use very little gas during the week as I’m approx 12 miles one way to the office. Amazing car, far more luxurious and well crafted vs all the model S’s I’ve seen. None of the quality/ waiting for servicing issues either. I like the idea of going green, obviously since I opted for the PHEV and would consider an EV as a second car but for my lifestyle it’s too limiting too. This last weekend I took my son up to LA drop off at college, picked up grandma, toured campus, went to dinner and dropped everyone back off, even with longest range Tesla I would definitely be eyeing the battery level. Life is stressful enough without needlessly adding more. With 530e I can be green and never have range anxiety. I also got $1k from SCE for purchasing a qualified used PHEV. Lastly Tesla’s ARE amazing cars, what They’ve done is truly incredible and I think they have a very bright future however to me they have become the NorthFace Jacket of cars, well done indeed but EVERYBODY has one to the point of having one projects the image that I’d rather not project. I know that sounds arrogant but a car to me says something about who I am, for better and worse. I know I know BMW.
After 8 years (bollocks comparison, but let just go along with your figures) , the bimmer would have cost me 2 more grand to run. In those 8 years, I would drive a 5 series instead of an appliance. Thanks for making it clear which one to choose. :)
So you’re telling me it takes 8 years (even including a kind of high repair estimate for the bmw and glossing over the insurance costs difference) to break even? Not really good for most of us.
You should include inflation adjustments over the 8 years. The upfront additional cost for the S is actually worth more after 8 years. It might be enough to make it even or show the S cost a little more in the end.
I always warn about calculating exact figures too early😜. Just think about the price impact of one possibility: Model S might be the 1st model on the market where you will be able to upgrade your MCU to the latest specs and benefit from ALL the latest software improvements which you are getting anyway, including the features that did not even exist at the time your model was manufactured! How do you even begin to compare it with say Mercedes Benz of the same MSRP that has none of these futureproof features?
Shamut on EV’s that would be reflected on its resale value. If the new MCU upgrade has significant impact you’d see the increased resale value relative to the merc’s resale value after 8 years. However ofcourse it’s all speculation until 8 years have passed and we have the actual nimbers.
In real world driving, it takes a lot of effort to get the mpg on the 530e to drop to 25mpg. I’ve never been below 30-31 with a shit ton of idling involved.
At or around 8 years, I would expect the batteries to be basically spent. That is not captured in your cost analysis. BMW's battery is much smaller, and, therefore, far less expensive to replace. The resale value of the Tesla at 8 years, is highly overestimated, again, because at the point the batteries are spent. A $20k resale indicates to me that this assumes a brand new battery pack has been installed in the car. The next buyer can just not worry about the BMW's battery being spent, because it still will function just fine without it as a regular ICE propelled vehicle.
True but it would lose a third of its horsepower. When it disables the battery for temperature control, you really feel how sluggish it gets in that little 2.0 engine.
@@JS-od9dj The marketing mumbo jumbo on that is actually very misleading. Motor HP and torque plus ICE HP and torque does not equal total HP and torque in the Sport Xtraboost mode. That is actually false. For starters, in the 330e, BMW greatly underreports the ICE HP and torque and there are a ton of dyno reports out there to prove it. Its basically the same as the 330i. However, provided you have at least some drive battery charge, the drive battery will power the power steering, A/C, and so on, and not need the alternator (or a mechanical pulley) to provide the electrical (or mechanical) power to the accessories which in turn robs power from the ICE like it does in the non-hybrid 330i. So, the 330e using only the ICE in sports mode has at least the same HP and torque available than the 330i does, but more of it is available to drive the wheels when you need it. When you use the 330e in sports mode plus xtraboost, the HP and torque increase due to the motor when you push the accelerator pedal past the click point is in truth negligible. The problem is when the drive battery has no charge and the ICE alternator has to power the accessories and put charge into the drive battery. If you are in sports mode, the algorithm always ensures that at least some charge is in the drive battery, and when you punch it it immediately stops doing that. When you let off the gas, it resumes. Thus, it is always ready when you need it while not causing you sluggish performance when you demand it. However, in no case is it motor HP and torque plus ICE HP and torque equals total HP and torque. That is false. I do wish BMW did a better job of explaining it.
@@KungPowEnterFist i do know that when the battery is “unavailable” in my 530e it gets noticeably sluggish but there is about a 10 second delay between when that sluggishness goes away and when the battery reports as available again. I suppose it could be the a difference in alternator power being redirected but it basically feels like losing a whole lot of torque and the turbo lag is much more noticeable.
@@JS-od9dj The alternators in these vehicles are quite large. Much larger than would have otherwise been needed. Converting mechanical energy to electrical energy costs HP, and the more you convert the more HP it costs you. But if you are not in one of the sport modes, then you are telling the car that you are ok with giving up HP to the wheels in order to power accessories. The sport modes prioritize performance as I described. In any case, this becomes more noticeable on long road trips. Not really an issue in local city driving as you will recover energy during braking and coasting enough to the point that that amount of energy recovered will generally be enough to keep the accessories powered in most cases. But if you are not in sport mode and you have the A/C on full blast, windshield wipers on, highbeams on, 6 phones and 4 laptops plugged in via high power chargers, etc., yes, the drive battery will deplete and the ICE performance will be sluggish once that happens.
@@KungPowEnterFist when I’m in sport mode it actually charges up the battery faster. The only mode that absolutely kills performance AND mpg is the battery saver mode. You can watch the gas gauge drop as the battery gauge rises 😂
forgot to mention the failing huge infotainment screen which does everything, that bricks and your on the hook for. they advertise all the other warranties but not the 2year only warranty on the important screen which commonly breaks
Good research but it's only a starting point. Put the $16,000 saving in a government I-bond (currently over 9%) over 8 years that gives you around $11,000 in interest plus the $16,000 and the numbers look very different
19 miles of electric range for the BMW is just ridiculous. They could make it like 50+ miles which is sufficient for most daily drivers.🤦🏽 330 miles for the gas engine is equally stupid.🤦🏽 BMW combined two engines to make a vehicle which is worse in EVERY CATEGORY! 🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽
Really dont get it why they keep comparing Tesla to Hybrids PHs etc. What about the software and features of tesla? Anyone who has driven BMW knows how rubbish their infotainment is. Why would you buy xiaomi if you can afford iphone? Stupid paid videos. But on the other hand, what legasies left with? Only paying such ridiculous videos.
BMW made 530e for someone like me, someone who has a 12 mile one way commute and can charge at home and office and wants the option of driving long distances without having to make sacrifices for long charge times, lack of availability of fast charging stations, etc. Also they made the battery just big enough to qualify for federal and state subsidies and single occupancy carpool lane stickers. I love my brothers model S( he gets free super charging) but he makes sacrifices that I’m glad I don’t have to.
@Cleanerwatt, this might be a big ask but would you consider doing this comparison year by year so we could see how the cars compare if you keep them between 3 and 10 years? I'd like to see the same for Model 3 vs Accord.
A couple of hundreds. So not that much when comparing to tens of thousands. Also, you don't really need a dedicated charging station unless you really drive a lot in one day (like over 100 miles a day). But a typical user can usually charge their cars just from a typical outlet, same where you would plug in your hair dryer. Though, in the US they use 120 volt outlets, so you might want to install a 240 volt outlet, but that's nothing but calling your electrician and asking them to install one. Can't cost more than a hundred bucks, unless you live in a 200-year-old house with poor wiring.
Great point. The Tesla requires a 240V charger and circuit. If you don't have that I would say in most markets you are looking at a $1K or more investment, though once you have it you are set. The small battery in the BMW can be charged from 120V, and in most use cases that makes the most sense (one shot a day).
Diesel and petrol prices are going up at lightning speed. Also hybrids and phev are becoming more vulnerable to taxes. If I ever buy a new car, I would keep it for life, waste of money to sell it.
Actually, fuel prices are pretty low right now because of Covid. But going electric and running it on solar panels is the future way to free yourself from the oil industry!
@@bigbadbear2962 annual maintenance costs on a bmw 5 series far outweigh the ones of a Tesla. Even if you consider battery replacement every 8-10 years. A 530e also has a battery, remember.
@@ruimpinho I’m not talking about the Tesla in particular, I was saying that you wouldn’t want to drive any car for 50+ years because eventually the money you’ve spent repairing the tires, body, electric motors or engines, gearbox etc will outweigh the cost for a new car.
Great video with very well documented facts! I currently own a 2020 PHEV 5 series and now since the 5 year warranty period has little over 1 year left, I was thinking of a comparison between this one vs a Model S Tesla. I would like your opinion regarding the fact that I don’t want to hold to a car for more than 4-5 years and I run aprox 10,000km/year. Would you think an electric vehicle is a good deal versus a PHEV? I would say that the average 8 year and 120,000miles ( almost 200,000kms) is something worthy of an electric vehicle, but if you don’t drive so much doing a lot of kms, maybe and electric one doesn’t fit good in this scheme. What’s your input regarding this? Thanks and keep up the good work Michael
Two things, cost of replacing the batteries over the life and how do these battery cars behave to the Canadian winters? I’ve heard from some that mileage on full charge is halved when temps are extreme, which isn’t uncommon in Canada. That wouldn’t be isolated to Tesla only…it affects any battery technologies.
These numbers are so close you could say they are the same, Just depends how you look at the unknowns. Personally i like electric cars and wouldn't want to drive anything else, but however you look at it your not really going to save money. My main advice to anyone is, if you need to regularly public charge, it must be a tesla, other charging stations are a pain in the arse. If you can't charge at home forget it. I seldom public charge, and to charge my car take 30 secs, 15 to plug it in at night and 15 to unplug it in the morning. If public charging, I wait till i'm at 30% then pull into a motorway service station, and keep repeating the process till i find one that works, If i had a tesla, they always work. I do live in the UK, My Yank friends may have a different experience.
@@allamasadi7970 You could also buy the tesla let other people rent it and make more than you would save even on an BMW 2, but I think if we go to such thinking, we won't get anywhere.
Well about the if you can't charge at home part, it really depends on how much you drive. Model S has like over 300 miles of range, so if you drive less than 50 miles a day, it would enough to visit a rapid charger once a week. I think that's quite manageable.
If it's one thing I have learned about German cars like Mercedes, BMW or Audi, you never buy them new. I love their cars, but my new rule going forward is they have to be around 2 to 3 years old. They will still be covered and you can also purchase additional insurance once the manufacturer one expires, which is what I did. :-)
Furtmore buy a late model of the current series. As with many new products, they are quite well tested but nothing beats thousands of customers testing every day in real life. Car manufacturers are constantly improving production to adapt for known problems..
I have a 3 year old Tesla S and my son has a 530e. So far he hasn't spent anything on maintenance. While I have spent $1300 so far. Also, you forgot to add the cost of charging the Tesla. I spend an average of $50-70-mo extra on my electric bill to charge my Tesla S. Fyi
So many assumptions that you can assume they are almost on par. Biggest error might be resale price of the 8yr tesla model S - they will probably hold value better than assumed
virtan v.good point! However if you look into the data available in 2020, only models without (Leaf) or with badly done ACTIVE THERMAL BATTERY MGMT need a battery replacement EVER. I am honestly interested in the sources of your belief otherwise as I collect them for my PhD on assumptions for popular opinions hindering EV adoption. If you can be bothered to HELP ME in this respect, why don’t U drop me a quick msg on Twitter: Shamut on EVerything is my name there. THANK YOU and ANYONE WITH SERIOUS DISCUSSION POINTS/SOURCES🙏🏻
Yourcrazybear yep, and AT THE SAME TIME demand for 2nd hand EV’s will grow exponentially once half the drivers around you have driven one. Also once we do away with battery replacement myth, the prices for old ICEs and EV’s will divorce in terms of their curves DRAMATICALLY due to 3 simple yet powerful factors: 1.everyday utility 2. maintenance cost 3. perceived resale value at the other end.
One huge difference you left out is the cost of fuel in BMW vs charging in a Tesla! That alone should convince anyone trying to save money to go with a Tesla!
Yes😁👍🏽 MS is more comparable with the 7series (although Tesla has not really a true luxury car yet). I drive usually the latest version of the S-Class which is probably more comfortable to drive than the MS which I haven’t had the pleasure to drive yet. I guess he wanted to picture the worst case scenario in which the MS is still cheap in the long run.
I think he used this comparison, because there are 8 years of data on both cars. The Model 3 is still too new to know a more accurate cost of ownership.
Because 5+ BMWs give you really luxurious interior, flawless materials, sound comfort and meticulously tuned exhaust sound. As well as you can jump in the car and drive it coast to coast almost non-stop, no need to spend 3 hours waiting for charging for every 8-9 hours of driving.
@@virtancom the charging part is untrue, but BMW does have superior comfort level (3 series vs model 3). Better handling and superior material. Tesla has very nice convenient tech that BMW also has but not as well implemented.
@@AW-gj4ji the charging part is even worse. I just finished two day rental of model Y. It was almost a new car (2 months old, 5k miles). It was long range. You should keep battery charge within 30%..75% range (tesla recommendation) so you have just 45% of your total battery capacity. Battery is 75kw, my driving gives an average consumption of ~400w/mile. So your effective “long” range is 85 miles. To charge those 45% of battery you need to spend 25 minutes on supercharger (or 22 hours of charging at home) which translates to 1/4 of your trip waiting at supercharger for your car to be ready.
The repair costs of BMW 5 series is not realistic! Turbocharger a 5k? Dude you get it below 2k! And the tires for TESLA S needs to be replaced more often than you assumed!
Two points of information. Tesla insurance has being dropping. The insurance companies are finding out that Tesla with enhanced driving are less likely to get into an accident than the ICE vehicles. If you are going to buy a Tesla and are not buying at least enhanced driving, what is the point of getting one. There is another video made by the "Frugal Tesla Guy". He read the instructions and said that in the 1st 4 years of ownership, the only thing you need to do is to Change the battery fluid, replace the cabin air filter and the tires for sure. So if you do the maintenance required in the 1st 4 years and take care of your car, there is no way that you will have the expenses you mentioned. You can invest that saved money to buy Full Self Driving.
@@virtancom they do require more repairs due to immature manufacturing as I've taken mine in quite a few times in the past 2 years. But it hasn't cost me a penny yet. All under warranty.
But surely the biggest difference is the tail pipe emissions..or rather poison ..which car would you feel comfortable sitting behind breathing the tailpipe emissions?
I read somewhere that the reason most BMW's are leased is because owners know that after a couple of years everything goes to hell and it will really cost you. Most find it easier just to turn it back in and let the used car market take care of those future repairs.
I think better than half of BMW owners find a good independent repair shop that does work at least 33% less than the dealer. Whereas, there are very few independent Tesla repair centers. Also, a fait note to mention is that Tesla are very expensive to repair collision damage.
@@Cleanerwatt Every Country has two unit prices, depends on usage of units you will fall in over priced rate. So now when you charge Tesla Models it will cost more than 1 ltr fuel because of step over rate.
8:22 I understand that there's only data for the old Gen 1 Model S but it's really not fair to calculate with that data compared to the vastly superior 2020 model. Depreciation should be much lower, i'm thinking ~60%.
Actually, the opposite will happen. remember, the market is all about demand and offer. In 8 years' time, there will be many more Tesla S, and also many, many other electric cars. At the moment, Teslas are highly demanded, because they do not have competition really. Do you honestly think, it will be the same in the 8 years from now? So Tesla will lose even more in its value that it is today.
@@DS-pk4eh I don't believe that a fully self driving car that can actively earn its owner money would depreciate much on the secondhand market, if at all, for a time Teslas will actually appreciate.
@@DS-pk4eh Agreed. In 8 years of time the used market for EVs will look quite a bit different than right now. It's safer to assume a deprecation similar to other cars.
@@2nd3rd1st It's unwise to perform the calculations on pure speculation. No one knows if we have full self driving in 8 years from now. And even if we did, the used market could be flooded with Teslas even then. You also have to remember that the cars sold now probably don't have the new million miles battery that everyone that operates a robo taxi service would want. If you want to start a robo taxi service it would be wiser to just buy a new car with the new battery.
This data might be off, my neighbor’s model S and another’s 3 require periodic and expensive brake lubrications which can cost hundreds plus numerous quality issues that have been addressed and some that aren’t worth the hassles of long waits including creaks, large gaps, loose trim. I’m trying not to judge because I think it’s amazing what Tesla has accomplished in its relatively short time making cars but the issues are there. And what will be the condition of the batteries after 8 years? Those can’t be cheap to replace?
You forgot home charger, which costs anywhere from $1500-$3000 installed by licensed electrician, and assumed that all services for the Beemer would be at a dealership (which inflates the service prices by around 23-30%). Your depreciation number for the Tesla comes from Tesla, whereas the Beemer number is an average of private and dealer pricing. Where is the private/dealer pricing for used Teslas, or does Tesla not allow that? Also, real world data should include frozen brakes on a Tesla cost to replace. Sorry, but It's barely a wash when looked at from real world actual events. And it would be far BETTER for the Beemer if it WASN'T a hybrid.
You can charge it on a washer/dryer 240 v outlet and that’s free...~22-25 miles range/hr. When ur asleep who cares as long as it’s charged by morning. If I drive 50 miles one way (100 round trip), that’s a little over 4 hrs of charging. Most people sleep 5-6 hrs a night. Lucky if you get 7-8 hrs
@@yingnyang2889 IF your dryer outlet is in an enclosed garage. Most folks have no garage and the outlet is inside the house. Not a smart idea to leave your door or window open at night to charge your car, you would agree. For many folks, the only overnight option is to charge their car at a nearby RV park overnight...for around $35 a pop. Or plug into standard 120v (if the car likes that outlet and will ALLOW charging) and hope the temps never get above 75 degrees or below 40 degrees F. Outside of SoCal, that's not a whole lot of places.
Thanks for the effort. I’d say difference is so small that it is not relevant. You need to consider other aspects/preferences to make the choice. BMW might get less repairs or Tesla more and the figures look different. Tesla has looked roughly the same during the last 10 years. If you now buy a new one, there’s a bigger chance that a new model S could appear with new looks depreciating more the current models.
How are you gonna compare and older bmw 335i to a 530e not even the same platform? You could’ve compared it a f30 330e 3 series and is probably would’ve gotten way better results since both of those bmw are a lot closer to compare than the 335i
Interesting analysis and very well put together. Teslas are positioned for purchase and BMW are positioned for lease. For example, I leased a $65k BMW 530e for $550/ month for 3 years / 36k miles. BMW gives a pretty good discount (much higher than what True Car indicates) and they really inflate their residual values to keep the payment down. Given, maintenance is included in the BMW and various government incentives help reduce up front costs, my BMW would cost $59k for 3 back to back lease terms, which is about the same as the depreciation and financing on the example given here. One could argue that prices go up every 3 years and the lease cost may be higher. In my experience, car companies hike MSRP every year but give a bigger discount to move older metal and lease prices actually go down (assuming stable interest rates). This wipes out the $13k for maintenance and repairs for the BMW, which makes it a cheaper cost of ownership relative to the Tesla, and you have a newer car with better equipment and updates every 3 years.
As of 2022 however the tax credit situation for these two vehicles is very different. The Tesla no longer is eligible for a tax credit. The BMW is eligible for at least $5000 in tax credits.
I don’t see the true connection here, there are pro’s and cons on both cars to name them would take time. Depending on how you use these vehicles haven’t been compared, here in the uk charging stations aren’t that common, they are very different in many ways and not easily comparable.
I will buy a 2012 Tesla S if you can find me one at this price. No one in the market sells it at KBB values. Some (EV and ICE) are more and some models (ICE) are lower. I love ICE cars, but the one solid reason for going EV is the lack of oil changes and basic maintenance. The independent mechanics or dealers make this an extremely uncomfortable experience, i.e., appointment lead time, always upselling, completely disregarding the customer and imposing their false truths etc.
The reality, at least for me is very different. I have experience as a current owner of a Model S and owned several BMWs and Audis in the past. I’ve never owned a car with worse quality than the Tesla, not even the Alfas I’ve owned. The Tesla has cost me around the equivalent of 10,000$ the last one and a half year. The official Tesla workshop charge is not even an alternative when something brake, they are not interstate in fixing anything with real mechanical skills, it always changing big and very expensive components. When I brought the car to independent workshop they were often shocked at how bad the car is put together. All the wiring is horrible and corrodes like nothing else, constant electrical gremlins. As soon as you are out of warranty, this is the worst possible money pit. I’m going back to German!
@@Cleanerwatt thanks mate! And I don’t want to come across a Tesla hater, I’m not, but I’ve seen so many calculations and done them myself and the two most important considerations are often not given enough weight. From what I’ve learned owning quite a few cars, fuel economy is seldom that important when calculating what a car costs to own, repairs/how often it brakes down and value loss are the really big factors. Now looking to sell the Tesla before it ruins my economy totally ;)
Wow, this was a great sales pitch for Tesla. It’s impossible to tell the life time costs of a car because there are many changing variables during its life, include cost of fuel/electricity, how the car is treated or abused, and if you are unlucky to purchase a dud. I had a 5 series for 8 years from new, had only about 3k in costs and ran up 80k miles. But seriously at these prices for cars, you’re not buying them to save money, you’re buying them for luxury and image. And zero emissions really has little to do with it, because your electricity is likely coming from a coal fired power plant, and the car wasn’t made by fairy’s using pixy dust. So let’s be realistic, if you really care about saving money and/or the environment, neither is a good choice.
The bmw has the fit & finish of rolls royce & not a kit car. The bmw is less upfront money, has better financing & options including head up display, laser headlights & colors.
Very biased comparison... I have had several BMW's over the years, never had a turbo go. Several friends have had to had motors replace, amongst many other things due to poor manufacturing. Repairs for the Tesla should have been around the 10,000 mark instead of 5,000. But when the battery fails after 150k miles, you can increase this to 30,000+. You also forgot the following maintenance for the tesla: Brake fluid health check every 2 years (replace if necessary). A/C desiccant bag replacement every 6 years. Cabin air filter replacement every 2 years. Clean and lubricate brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles (20,000 km) if in an area where roads are salted during winter Rotate tires every 6,250 miles (10,000 km) or if tread depth difference is 2/32 in (1.5 mm) or greater, whichever comes first Disk brakes/pads every 20,000 miles or until worn, whichever comes first. All in all the BMW has a cheaper cost per mile than the tesla. Not to mention the 5 series is in a completely different league to the Tesla... If you wanted an accurate comparison, you should have done the 330e :)
What happens aftwr 8 years? By interior I would never put a Model S anywhere close to being a premium
While this video is presented as not biased, we can feel some bias in favor of Tesla.
- Why not go for 10 years, so both cars are out of their warranty?
- Can you really compare the craftsmanship of those two cars? I was in both (models 2020), and while Tesla upped their game, it is still not a real premium. It is getting close, but it is not.
- I actually had two BMWs, and never had any major repair. The biggest one was some rubber parts on the rear bumper. But that was because someone reared me. The car that reared me was smashed. BMW is well known for lasting long. Here, in Europe, you can buy some with 300'000km and people are buying cause they are still good. Does this mean they never have a problem? No, of course, they have. But from what I saw (and I follow the car market a lot), big problems are rather exceptions that rule. So that cost that you calculated for BMW is just not realistic.
- Why go for PHEV model? We know that is the most complex system that there is in the car industry today. Comparing to an electric car that is the simplest one is not fair. A 530xd would be much better.
Tesla as representative of electric cars is the future of automobiles. But that does not mean that we need to be biased. Tesla is still growing and learning. To believe that other brands will just watch and do nothing is fullish.
Next year will be very interesting as many new electric cars will hit the market. Some were supposed to show already this year, but we all know what is happening. So, they were delayed.
In the end, financially, both cars are a COST. Not investment. With your money, you chose in which one you will feel better.
Me, I never buy new cars. Cars lose most of their value in the first 2-3 years. No need to throw money away.
Totally support your position
Agree. If you are willing to put out that kind of money you probably don't care as much for the total ownership cost. If you want to be economic about it, both cars are just a big economic waste. Just buy the one you like the most.
As a European citizen, this is so true. A 2017 520-530D would cost half compared to a 2017 Model S. And it's a better car in many aspects. You just have to buy the right one. EV's have a long future ahead, but they are still hard to justify in many countries unless you get a big government discount.
I too agree. I have had BMW's for 40 years, and haven't really had major issues until the E46. It does appear modern BMW's may leak oil like a sieve on time from valve cover, oil pan and oil filter housing. That being said my 2008 E60 did not spring those leaks, but did leak from the oil cooler. $10 parts, my labor (about an hour). Not sure about dealer costs.
The maintenance quoted for the BMW is probably valid - it is a pay me now, pay me later proposition. I too question the durability of the small displacement turbo charged engine, although on a 530e, 120,000 miles may only rack up 60,000 to 80,000 miles on the ICE depending on the driving situation. I would also propose you will not be replacing brakes at the rate mentioned in the analysis. Many early owners are reporting they are still driving around on their original brakes. Elsewhere in here too, others questioned the lack of brake maintenance, or a fluid change is rolled up in the $600 every two year Tesla maintenance.
I have been living with a 2020 AWD 530e for a year. Have put about 3,500 miles on it, about half full electric. Very enjoyable car.
One last point. I don't know if I would want an EV after the battery life is expended. I will say if my ICE engine holds out, depletion of batter performance isn't quite as much of an issue.
As soon as he used a 335i as his maintenance cost model, I knew where this video was going. Twin turbo v6 is not equal to a little Mini Cooper engine for repairs.
the comparison seems a bit flawed because the two vehicles are substantially different: with the bmw you are never stranded / no range anxiety and plus it looks 100 times better. To my eyes (and I know that beauty is subjective) Teslas look like cheap Japanese cars while the BMW looks luxurious and super well proportioned.
Agreed
Exactly, and Tesla design is 10 years old.
Safety of BMW, its handling and capabilities are uncomparable.
You have said it best!
Well said , sir 🫡
Been driving bmws for 23 years and recently bought myself a model s. Your comment is flawed, fanboyism.
When you make tests that favors Tesla every time.
Make it a biased test.
Turbos dont need to be changed at all.
Im At 180k miles on the same turbo, on my 20 year old car.
So that is the same that you need to change the screen in the S every 4 years...
And that is not a cheap screen... 2-3k plus installation.
Information from Rich Rebuild and his team of repairmen dedicated to repair these things.
Also there os alot of servicing you also dont take to account.
Brakefluid need to be changed every 2 years. Coolant same thing.
It dont last forever.
Also there is oilchanges on these electric motors.
There have been people paying well 2k for their first service of their S, X and 3.
Also how much is it worth of you driving your car?
Teslas are know to be standing still and wait for repairs most of the time.
As well it can only be repaired at the local Tesla service center, with parts from Tesla.
People around here that have been without their car for month, because missing parts. Got better.
But not good enough that I dare buy one another.
One Tesla is more than enough after you finally got rid of the trash.
They are on so bad condition that a ordinary carmaker would get fined for deliver this crap.
So if Tesla competing on the same conditions as all other car makers, with the same quality morale as other carmakers have to endure, and Tesla not.
NO ONE would buy a Tesla. They are just have that poor quality you expect from chinese cars.
I had a BMW turbo since 2010, never gad an issue with it.
Well in general it's stupid to assume repair cost. Because its never the same for everyone. Pretty much my grudge against this video and many others with their "true cost".
Oh and I didn't understand why include the resale value... it's pointless as it would again never be the same.
They are both pretty good cars though.
Especially since there have been consistent reports of bad finish quality with Teslas having interesting panel gaps or issues with paint and the vehicle leaves the factory anyway!
Teslas don't have brakes or brakefluids?
I actually owned a Tesla that was over 8 yrs old and over 100000 miles and in my experience the maintenance was a bit more than your estimates... especially the tires which needed to be replaced often. Other than that I thought the analysis was interesting.
It is very unlikely for a BMW to have those repairing costs in the first five years. I've owned several BMWs and, aside from maintainance costs (which you don't pay in the first 100 000km) you'd have to be very unlucky to spend so much money in repairs. On the other hand, if both cars cost basically the same after 8 years, the fact that with a BMW you are not exclusively dependent of a wire to go wherever you want makes the choice pretty easy to me.
You can buy a used 2017 530e for less than 30k€. For the same price you can only get a 2013 Model S with 200k+ km. And good luck with those out of warranty...
You only see the savings if you plan to buy both brand new and drive a LOT every single day. A model 3 /Leaf / Zoe / Kona EV makes a lot more sense if the goal is to save money.
You forgot the cost of replacing the battery pack on both vehicles. At 150.000miles the Tesla batteries are well below 70% in range capability and the BMW will have similar figures but the BMW doesn't get range challenged in the same way. Also Tesla requires special servicesstations for your guarantee to be valid.
And the turbos going out is a pure case of not servicing the turbo and/or manipulating the boost figures (not unusual, and a bad tune wrecks the turbo).
Tuning on the Tesla is done by upgrade but doesn't transfer to the next owner, but will reduce the battery capacity faster.
Well especially since the specific motor that is in the 530e has been bullet proofed because of legal action against the proceeding generations of the 4 cyl turbo also known as the N20. There is a current TSB out for the motor where the dealership will inspect the suspect part for free and if they find something wrong they will take care of it free of charge as well. Another to consider as well is that if you are responsible and keep up with the maintenance of a BMW they will last a long time and perform well at the same time.
I have a BMW 520D 2014 approaching 100.000 miles and all this talk about turbos failing at around that mark and costing 5000 dollars to replace had me worried so I went to take a look online: it costs about 500€ euros here in Italy to replace a broken turbo with a new one, provided you send the spare turbo factory your old broken turbo. Quite a difference from the 5000$ claimed in this video but of course it’s possible, the USA and Italy are worlds apart and maybe you can’t really compare the two situations, I am just glad I am not sitting a 5k time bomb :)
American don't understand the european cars.
They also never read the brochure and don't know how to run them.
Hence why they stick to the boring Japanese cars.
Their electric fleets are like appliances .
There is no way any BMW sealer is charging $200 for transmission fluid service. Atleast $650.
BMW charges $300 for an engine oil change.
As per bmw, transmission fluid is lifetime 😁
@@superfly19751 $90 for the 530e
@@superfly19751 i know this was two years ago, but i doubt it was ever this much. Even today, with inflation, BMW offers a 3 oil changes for $200 package. Last oil change I paid for about 3 years ago was for around $70-80.
I don’t think it would be a good idea to own a bmw for 8 years.
Exactly what I was thinking. The BMW not designed to last that long😒
Goodluck owning BMW after 3 years it's if they can make it.. all headaches..
just like any other cars
Really? So all those 8yrs+ BMW s on sale(all over the world) as the second-hand car with very high mileage are just ghosts? I think that you do not enough about them. Please inform yourself.
@@carholic-sz3qv Na, I have a 20 yr old Dodge Dakota short bed with 200k miles. I replaced one starter motor - that's it. I'm still on the original clutch and transmission! But people are right about those lux German costs - if you want ot maintain them beyond the 3 year lease it will cost you seriously.
I dont get the comparison with services. Tesla doesn't have brakes that need to be changed and maintained or what?
I was thinking the exact same thing. The only thing it doesn't need really is the oil and trans fluid replacement. All other servicing needs to be done.
A friend of mine works at a mechanic shop and tire dealership and more often then not the Teslas need to change tires and bearings more often due to the wheight
Don't forget that the 530e is eligiable for the $4.6 federal tax credit and the Model S is not.
This is not really fair. Obviously, this guy is an electric aficionado who has a channel that talks positive about electrics vs ICE. At the eight years for the BMW has been pretty much items that might need to be fixed are replaced. The Tesla is waiting for its pretty much power train is needing to be replaced-meaning the battery. That is HUGE. Not a fair comparison at all.
Aside from the repair cost and maybe the fuel/electricity cost. The rest is pretty spot on.
Repair cost you should've took an average from somewhere, I highly doubt it would cost 5k for someone to repair their bmw after only 5 years while the first 4 years is already covered. How unlucky do you gotta be.
Our BMW turbo went bad after 6 years and cost $5,600 to replace. When I handed the check to the BMW service person, I said, "You know I am buying a Tesla after this because it does not have a turbo." They said they have been hearing that a lot lately.
I doubt that. Most folks who buy a BMW, aren't the kind who want an EV. And vice versa.
@@billcichoke2534 I doubt that. It would be far more accurate if you said that most people who buy a new combustion engine car aren't the kind who wants a EV. That would atleast be true so far. What you are presenting is just a prejudice of sorts.
@@billcichoke2534 I have a BMW, and am fearing the day something breaks. Last years it's only been small stuff at around 3000€ per year... I'm also getting a Tesla next.
@@tommimerelin7973 €3k a year on repairs that aint small stuff XD Sell that hot garbage a.s.a.p.
@@redstar151 Waiting for the Model Y to come to Europe.
We just bought a 2018 530e w/27k miles for $33k. Full electric mode to drop off kids and back (~20 miles) plug it in & can do it again to pick up! Bought solar panels on house, payment is cheaper than electric bill.
lol same here, kids school and work is with 5 miles i really dont use gas during the week
I just picked up a 2018 530e with 35k miles for $27k certified preowned from local BMW dealer. Warranty til Sept 2023 and single occupancy carpool lane sticker good til Jan 2023. I use very little gas during the week as I’m approx 12 miles one way to the office. Amazing car, far more luxurious and well crafted vs all the model S’s I’ve seen. None of the quality/ waiting for servicing issues either. I like the idea of going green, obviously since I opted for the PHEV and would consider an EV as a second car but for my lifestyle it’s too limiting too. This last weekend I took my son up to LA drop off at college, picked up grandma, toured campus, went to dinner and dropped everyone back off, even with longest range Tesla I would definitely be eyeing the battery level. Life is stressful enough without needlessly adding more. With 530e I can be green and never have range anxiety. I also got $1k from SCE for purchasing a qualified used PHEV. Lastly Tesla’s ARE amazing cars, what They’ve done is truly incredible and I think they have a very bright future however to me they have become the NorthFace Jacket of cars, well done indeed but EVERYBODY has one to the point of having one projects the image that I’d rather not project. I know that sounds arrogant but a car to me says something about who I am, for better and worse. I know I know BMW.
Why don't you need to change the brakes for the tesla? :-?
After 8 years (bollocks comparison, but let just go along with your figures) , the bimmer would have cost me 2 more grand to run.
In those 8 years, I would drive a 5 series instead of an appliance.
Thanks for making it clear which one to choose. :)
So you’re telling me it takes 8 years (even including a kind of high repair estimate for the bmw and glossing over the insurance costs difference) to break even? Not really good for most of us.
OK - I'm sticking with the bicycle and Ford Focus. But gosh that 530e is a looker...
You should include inflation adjustments over the 8 years. The upfront additional cost for the S is actually worth more after 8 years. It might be enough to make it even or show the S cost a little more in the end.
Interesting observation.
@@Cleanerwatt I agree. 16k @7% is for 8 years is $27,500 which would negate any benefit that one might have over model S.
I always warn about calculating exact figures too early😜. Just think about the price impact of one possibility: Model S might be the 1st model on the market where you will be able to upgrade your MCU to the latest specs and benefit from ALL the latest software improvements which you are getting anyway, including the features that did not even exist at the time your model was manufactured! How do you even begin to compare it with say Mercedes Benz of the same MSRP that has none of these futureproof features?
Shamut on EV’s that would be reflected on its resale value. If the new MCU upgrade has significant impact you’d see the increased resale value relative to the merc’s resale value after 8 years. However ofcourse it’s all speculation until 8 years have passed and we have the actual nimbers.
I think BMW is still eligible for $4600 federal tax rebate if I’m not mistaken
Curious about difference between insurance premiums.
In real world driving, it takes a lot of effort to get the mpg on the 530e to drop to 25mpg. I’ve never been below 30-31 with a shit ton of idling involved.
What year do you have? Looking at a 2019 m sport 530e. What’s your typical MPG?
At or around 8 years, I would expect the batteries to be basically spent. That is not captured in your cost analysis. BMW's battery is much smaller, and, therefore, far less expensive to replace. The resale value of the Tesla at 8 years, is highly overestimated, again, because at the point the batteries are spent. A $20k resale indicates to me that this assumes a brand new battery pack has been installed in the car. The next buyer can just not worry about the BMW's battery being spent, because it still will function just fine without it as a regular ICE propelled vehicle.
True but it would lose a third of its horsepower. When it disables the battery for temperature control, you really feel how sluggish it gets in that little 2.0 engine.
@@JS-od9dj The marketing mumbo jumbo on that is actually very misleading. Motor HP and torque plus ICE HP and torque does not equal total HP and torque in the Sport Xtraboost mode. That is actually false. For starters, in the 330e, BMW greatly underreports the ICE HP and torque and there are a ton of dyno reports out there to prove it. Its basically the same as the 330i. However, provided you have at least some drive battery charge, the drive battery will power the power steering, A/C, and so on, and not need the alternator (or a mechanical pulley) to provide the electrical (or mechanical) power to the accessories which in turn robs power from the ICE like it does in the non-hybrid 330i. So, the 330e using only the ICE in sports mode has at least the same HP and torque available than the 330i does, but more of it is available to drive the wheels when you need it. When you use the 330e in sports mode plus xtraboost, the HP and torque increase due to the motor when you push the accelerator pedal past the click point is in truth negligible. The problem is when the drive battery has no charge and the ICE alternator has to power the accessories and put charge into the drive battery. If you are in sports mode, the algorithm always ensures that at least some charge is in the drive battery, and when you punch it it immediately stops doing that. When you let off the gas, it resumes. Thus, it is always ready when you need it while not causing you sluggish performance when you demand it. However, in no case is it motor HP and torque plus ICE HP and torque equals total HP and torque. That is false. I do wish BMW did a better job of explaining it.
@@KungPowEnterFist i do know that when the battery is “unavailable” in my 530e it gets noticeably sluggish but there is about a 10 second delay between when that sluggishness goes away and when the battery reports as available again. I suppose it could be the a difference in alternator power being redirected but it basically feels like losing a whole lot of torque and the turbo lag is much more noticeable.
@@JS-od9dj The alternators in these vehicles are quite large. Much larger than would have otherwise been needed. Converting mechanical energy to electrical energy costs HP, and the more you convert the more HP it costs you. But if you are not in one of the sport modes, then you are telling the car that you are ok with giving up HP to the wheels in order to power accessories. The sport modes prioritize performance as I described. In any case, this becomes more noticeable on long road trips. Not really an issue in local city driving as you will recover energy during braking and coasting enough to the point that that amount of energy recovered will generally be enough to keep the accessories powered in most cases. But if you are not in sport mode and you have the A/C on full blast, windshield wipers on, highbeams on, 6 phones and 4 laptops plugged in via high power chargers, etc., yes, the drive battery will deplete and the ICE performance will be sluggish once that happens.
@@KungPowEnterFist when I’m in sport mode it actually charges up the battery faster. The only mode that absolutely kills performance AND mpg is the battery saver mode. You can watch the gas gauge drop as the battery gauge rises 😂
forgot to mention the failing huge infotainment screen which does everything, that bricks and your on the hook for. they advertise all the other warranties but not the 2year only warranty on the important screen which commonly breaks
Good research but it's only a starting point.
Put the $16,000 saving in a government I-bond (currently over 9%) over 8 years that gives you around $11,000 in interest plus the $16,000 and the numbers look very different
19 miles of electric range for the BMW is just ridiculous. They could make it like 50+ miles which is sufficient for most daily drivers.🤦🏽
330 miles for the gas engine is equally stupid.🤦🏽
BMW combined two engines to make a vehicle which is worse in EVERY CATEGORY! 🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽
Really dont get it why they keep comparing Tesla to Hybrids PHs etc. What about the software and features of tesla? Anyone who has driven BMW knows how rubbish their infotainment is. Why would you buy xiaomi if you can afford iphone? Stupid paid videos. But on the other hand, what legasies left with? Only paying such ridiculous videos.
Exactly... Not good enough for daily trips and even worse for long journeys. Might was well buy a 520D or a decent petrol engine (550i or M5).
BMW made 530e for someone like me, someone who has a 12 mile one way commute and can charge at home and office and wants the option of driving long distances without having to make sacrifices for long charge times, lack of availability of fast charging stations, etc. Also they made the battery just big enough to qualify for federal and state subsidies and single occupancy carpool lane stickers. I love my brothers model S( he gets free super charging) but he makes sacrifices that I’m glad I don’t have to.
Didn't know the 530e was being built in 2012?
Thought they started in 2017?
exactly
@Cleanerwatt, this might be a big ask but would you consider doing this comparison year by year so we could see how the cars compare if you keep them between 3 and 10 years? I'd like to see the same for Model 3 vs Accord.
That is a good Idea - I will consider it for future cost comparison videos.
How about a charging station at your home? How much does that cost?
A couple of hundreds. So not that much when comparing to tens of thousands. Also, you don't really need a dedicated charging station unless you really drive a lot in one day (like over 100 miles a day). But a typical user can usually charge their cars just from a typical outlet, same where you would plug in your hair dryer. Though, in the US they use 120 volt outlets, so you might want to install a 240 volt outlet, but that's nothing but calling your electrician and asking them to install one. Can't cost more than a hundred bucks, unless you live in a 200-year-old house with poor wiring.
Great point. The Tesla requires a 240V charger and circuit. If you don't have that I would say in most markets you are looking at a $1K or more investment, though once you have it you are set. The small battery in the BMW can be charged from 120V, and in most use cases that makes the most sense (one shot a day).
A couple hundred in labor costs, my neighbors spent over $1k for parts and labor to install a home charging station.
530e and 335i have nowhere near the same power train. You picked one of the most problematic powertrains to compare costs.
Diesel and petrol prices are going up at lightning speed. Also hybrids and phev are becoming more vulnerable to taxes.
If I ever buy a new car, I would keep it for life, waste of money to sell it.
Actually, fuel prices are pretty low right now because of Covid. But going electric and running it on solar panels is the future way to free yourself from the oil industry!
Until the car becomes obsolete and breaks
@@bigbadbear2962 annual maintenance costs on a bmw 5 series far outweigh the ones of a Tesla. Even if you consider battery replacement every 8-10 years. A 530e also has a battery, remember.
@@ruimpinho I’m not talking about the Tesla in particular, I was saying that you wouldn’t want to drive any car for 50+ years because eventually the money you’ve spent repairing the tires, body, electric motors or engines, gearbox etc will outweigh the cost for a new car.
@@bigbadbear2962 Oh yeah, that is true, for sure.
Great video with very well documented facts! I currently own a 2020 PHEV 5 series and now since the 5 year warranty period has little over 1 year left, I was thinking of a comparison between this one vs a Model S Tesla. I would like your opinion regarding the fact that I don’t want to hold to a car for more than 4-5 years and I run aprox 10,000km/year. Would you think an electric vehicle is a good deal versus a PHEV? I would say that the average 8 year and 120,000miles ( almost 200,000kms) is something worthy of an electric vehicle, but if you don’t drive so much doing a lot of kms, maybe and electric one doesn’t fit good in this scheme. What’s your input regarding this?
Thanks and keep up the good work
Michael
Two things, cost of replacing the batteries over the life and how do these battery cars behave to the Canadian winters? I’ve heard from some that mileage on full charge is halved when temps are extreme, which isn’t uncommon in Canada. That wouldn’t be isolated to Tesla only…it affects any battery technologies.
These numbers are so close you could say they are the same, Just depends how you look at the unknowns.
Personally i like electric cars and wouldn't want to drive anything else, but however you look at it your not really going to save money.
My main advice to anyone is, if you need to regularly public charge, it must be a tesla, other charging stations are a pain in the arse.
If you can't charge at home forget it.
I seldom public charge, and to charge my car take 30 secs, 15 to plug it in at night and 15 to unplug it in the morning.
If public charging, I wait till i'm at 30% then pull into a motorway service station, and keep repeating the process till i find one that works, If i had a tesla, they always work.
I do live in the UK, My Yank friends may have a different experience.
Considering the return on investing money, I think it is better to buy the BMW. The money saved compared to buying a Tesla could be invested.
@@allamasadi7970
You could also buy the tesla let other people rent it and make more than you would save even on an BMW 2, but I think if we go to such thinking, we won't get anywhere.
@@allamasadi7970 Even better. Don't buy brand new car. Invest the money instead :).
Well about the if you can't charge at home part, it really depends on how much you drive. Model S has like over 300 miles of range, so if you drive less than 50 miles a day, it would enough to visit a rapid charger once a week. I think that's quite manageable.
@@rahko_i I agree, If you own a Tesla, charging it is never a great problem, The big problem is using none Tesla chargers.
You should also consider the opportunity cost. You could invest the initial savings, vs investing the money saved every year.
A Model S eight years ago was much higher in price than your pricing.
If it's one thing I have learned about German cars like Mercedes, BMW or Audi, you never buy them new. I love their cars, but my new rule going forward is they have to be around 2 to 3 years old. They will still be covered and you can also purchase additional insurance once the manufacturer one expires, which is what I did. :-)
Gotta let the first owner eat the depreciation first. 😜
Furtmore buy a late model of the current series. As with many new products, they are quite well tested but nothing beats thousands of customers testing every day in real life. Car manufacturers are constantly improving production to adapt for known problems..
What about the tesla battery 10k cost ?
It would make more sense financially to lease the 530e for three years.
I have a 3 year old Tesla S and my son has a 530e. So far he hasn't spent anything on maintenance. While I have spent $1300 so far. Also, you forgot to add the cost of charging the Tesla. I spend an average of $50-70-mo extra on my electric bill to charge my Tesla S. Fyi
So many assumptions that you can assume they are almost on par. Biggest error might be resale price of the 8yr tesla model S - they will probably hold value better than assumed
Probably not since they may need battery replacement at this age.
In 8 years from now there will be a lot of used EVs on the market.
virtan v.good point! However if you look into the data available in 2020, only models without (Leaf) or with badly done ACTIVE THERMAL BATTERY MGMT need a battery replacement EVER. I am honestly interested in the sources of your belief otherwise as I collect them for my PhD on assumptions for popular opinions hindering EV adoption. If you can be bothered to HELP ME in this respect, why don’t U drop me a quick msg on Twitter: Shamut on EVerything is my name there. THANK YOU and ANYONE WITH SERIOUS DISCUSSION POINTS/SOURCES🙏🏻
Yourcrazybear yep, and AT THE SAME TIME demand for 2nd hand EV’s will grow exponentially once half the drivers around you have driven one. Also once we do away with battery replacement myth, the prices for old ICEs and EV’s will divorce in terms of their curves DRAMATICALLY due to 3 simple yet powerful factors: 1.everyday utility 2. maintenance cost 3. perceived resale value at the other end.
Yourcrazybear because now they are selling millions
One huge difference you left out is the cost of fuel in BMW vs charging in a Tesla! That alone should convince anyone trying to save money to go with a Tesla!
Had a 2018 BMW X3, I did need to change the brakes once as I drove totally 125 000 miles. Otherwise no repairs.
Great video! Some video material though.. look terrible. Especially the camera shot of yourself. I thought my youtube defaulted down to 720p or worse.
Shouldn’t you be comparing this with the model 3?
Yes😁👍🏽
MS is more comparable with the 7series (although Tesla has not really a true luxury car yet). I drive usually the latest version of the S-Class which is probably more comfortable to drive than the MS which I haven’t had the pleasure to drive yet.
I guess he wanted to picture the worst case scenario in which the MS is still cheap in the long run.
I think he used this comparison, because there are 8 years of data on both cars. The Model 3 is still too new to know a more accurate cost of ownership.
No, the 3 series is more like the Model 3. But whatever - Tesla will kick all of their overpriced over-engineered azzes.
Model 3 is a cheap, corolla level car. BMW 5 is a business class. I think Model S roughly similar to 5.
Very interesting. How about tesla model 3 awd dual motor vs. BMW 330 series.
I was this close from buying BMW 330 series last year. What changed my mind was watching autonomous day.
I don’t see why people would want a BMW unless first car as crash, yes I not a fan of it
Nearly forgot to add love seeing them compare
Because 5+ BMWs give you really luxurious interior, flawless materials, sound comfort and meticulously tuned exhaust sound. As well as you can jump in the car and drive it coast to coast almost non-stop, no need to spend 3 hours waiting for charging for every 8-9 hours of driving.
@@virtancom the charging part is untrue, but BMW does have superior comfort level (3 series vs model 3). Better handling and superior material. Tesla has very nice convenient tech that BMW also has but not as well implemented.
@@AW-gj4ji the charging part is even worse. I just finished two day rental of model Y. It was almost a new car (2 months old, 5k miles). It was long range. You should keep battery charge within 30%..75% range (tesla recommendation) so you have just 45% of your total battery capacity. Battery is 75kw, my driving gives an average consumption of ~400w/mile. So your effective “long” range is 85 miles. To charge those 45% of battery you need to spend 25 minutes on supercharger (or 22 hours of charging at home) which translates to 1/4 of your trip waiting at supercharger for your car to be ready.
The repair costs of BMW 5 series is not realistic! Turbocharger a 5k? Dude you get it below 2k! And the tires for TESLA S needs to be replaced more often than you assumed!
Tesla is now $20k more. That’s just crazy. Gas is now $6/gallon, which is also bonkers. Need to recalculate. Thanks for your work
Conclusion @ 13:16. I owned 2 German luxury vehicles, both bought new. Conclusion: NEVER AGAIN.
Thanks for the content
My pleasure!
and from a controllability point of view?
Does it look like we need the money?
Two points of information. Tesla insurance has being dropping. The insurance companies are finding out that Tesla with enhanced driving are less likely to get into an accident than the ICE vehicles. If you are going to buy a Tesla and are not buying at least enhanced driving, what is the point of getting one. There is another video made by the "Frugal Tesla Guy". He read the instructions and said that in the 1st 4 years of ownership, the only thing you need to do is to Change the battery fluid, replace the cabin air filter and the tires for sure. So if you do the maintenance required in the 1st 4 years and take care of your car, there is no way that you will have the expenses you mentioned. You can invest that saved money to buy Full Self Driving.
According to reliability score Teslas need more repairs than BMW in average.
@@virtancom they do require more repairs due to immature manufacturing as I've taken mine in quite a few times in the past 2 years.
But it hasn't cost me a penny yet. All under warranty.
But surely the biggest difference is the tail pipe emissions..or rather poison ..which car would you feel comfortable sitting behind breathing the tailpipe emissions?
BMW of course
I read somewhere that the reason most BMW's are leased is because owners know that after a couple of years everything goes to hell and it will really cost you. Most find it easier just to turn it back in and let the used car market take care of those future repairs.
What if, like most people I bought them on a pcp?
BMWs are engjneered to explode a month after warranty expires
Hyperbole much? :).
I would never own a bmw lease only
skip BMW all together
If you can't do the basic repairs yourself and like to use the main dealer yes I agree.
I think better than half of BMW owners find a good independent repair shop that does work at least 33% less than the dealer. Whereas, there are very few independent Tesla repair centers. Also, a fait note to mention is that Tesla are very expensive to repair collision damage.
Not bad, but you ignored the massive CO2 footprint of the battery fabrication process. If you want a total CO2 emission view, you must include that.
Please include step over rate, step over rate makes Hydro very expensive
?
@@Cleanerwatt Every Country has two unit prices, depends on usage of units you will fall in over priced rate. So now when you charge Tesla Models it will cost more than 1 ltr fuel because of step over rate.
we are now renting an S in QLD if you want to try one?
How about the 2000 dollars for an ev charger in your garage
8:22 I understand that there's only data for the old Gen 1 Model S but it's really not fair to calculate with that data compared to the vastly superior 2020 model. Depreciation should be much lower, i'm thinking ~60%.
While you are right, If I used a 60% number it would weaken the argument because someone could point out a potential bias in the calculations.
Actually, the opposite will happen. remember, the market is all about demand and offer. In 8 years' time, there will be many more Tesla S, and also many, many other electric cars. At the moment, Teslas are highly demanded, because they do not have competition really. Do you honestly think, it will be the same in the 8 years from now? So Tesla will lose even more in its value that it is today.
@@DS-pk4eh I don't believe that a fully self driving car that can actively earn its owner money would depreciate much on the secondhand market, if at all, for a time Teslas will actually appreciate.
@@DS-pk4eh Agreed. In 8 years of time the used market for EVs will look quite a bit different than right now. It's safer to assume a deprecation similar to other cars.
@@2nd3rd1st It's unwise to perform the calculations on pure speculation. No one knows if we have full self driving in 8 years from now. And even if we did, the used market could be flooded with Teslas even then. You also have to remember that the cars sold now probably don't have the new million miles battery that everyone that operates a robo taxi service would want. If you want to start a robo taxi service it would be wiser to just buy a new car with the new battery.
Do it again for a 520d though....
Brakes oil change not included on tesla calculations.
This data might be off, my neighbor’s model S and another’s 3 require periodic and expensive brake lubrications which can cost hundreds plus numerous quality issues that have been addressed and some that aren’t worth the hassles of long waits including creaks, large gaps, loose trim. I’m trying not to judge because I think it’s amazing what Tesla has accomplished in its relatively short time making cars but the issues are there. And what will be the condition of the batteries after 8 years? Those can’t be cheap to replace?
Could you compare the BMW 7 series PHEV?
I will look into that.
So you’re tying to tell me that a Tesla S doesn’t need brakes for 8 years? Come on man, glaringly obvious that you are Tesla biased.
"They cost the same to operate. So if you prefer better craftsmanship, chose the BMW". That may as well be your conclusion.
I like Tesla model s and the BMW
i was watching Wheeler Dealers aTV programme they were revamping a second hand BMW ,Ed China the mechanic said the Beamer had 4 radiators ,WTF 4 rads
The BMWs turbos last well over the 100k mark more like 170-200k.
You forgot home charger, which costs anywhere from $1500-$3000 installed by licensed electrician, and assumed that all services for the Beemer would be at a dealership (which inflates the service prices by around 23-30%). Your depreciation number for the Tesla comes from Tesla, whereas the Beemer number is an average of private and dealer pricing. Where is the private/dealer pricing for used Teslas, or does Tesla not allow that? Also, real world data should include frozen brakes on a Tesla cost to replace.
Sorry, but It's barely a wash when looked at from real world actual events. And it would be far BETTER for the Beemer if it WASN'T a hybrid.
You can charge it on a washer/dryer 240 v outlet and that’s free...~22-25 miles range/hr. When ur asleep who cares as long as it’s charged by morning. If I drive 50 miles one way (100 round trip), that’s a little over 4 hrs of charging. Most people sleep 5-6 hrs a night. Lucky if you get 7-8 hrs
@@yingnyang2889 IF your dryer outlet is in an enclosed garage. Most folks have no garage and the outlet is inside the house. Not a smart idea to leave your door or window open at night to charge your car, you would agree.
For many folks, the only overnight option is to charge their car at a nearby RV park overnight...for around $35 a pop. Or plug into standard 120v (if the car likes that outlet and will ALLOW charging) and hope the temps never get above 75 degrees or below 40 degrees F. Outside of SoCal, that's not a whole lot of places.
The addons seemed biased against the BMW when it's not on the Tesla just to bump up the price. C'mon man.
You forgot to mention BMW built quality is miles ahead lol. What about the convenience of long trips?
Thanks for the effort. I’d say difference is so small that it is not relevant. You need to consider other aspects/preferences to make the choice. BMW might get less repairs or Tesla more and the figures look different. Tesla has looked roughly the same during the last 10 years. If you now buy a new one, there’s a bigger chance that a new model S could appear with new looks depreciating more the current models.
Not a bad comparison but I think most of these car owners aren’t holding on to these cars for eight years.
How are you gonna compare and older bmw 335i to a 530e not even the same platform? You could’ve compared it a f30 330e 3 series and is probably would’ve gotten way better results since both of those bmw are a lot closer to compare than the 335i
The model S is a great car Still love mine!
I’d suggest keeping it in the family. Early Model S’s will be crazy expensive collectors items in 2050😎
You lucky boy. Im dreaming about Model S. Cant afford one. But maybe some day :)
@@PerformanceY for sale as we bought a Y- 27k
Sorry, I have no teslar in my country 😟
Lmao
You could also compare the BMW 5 series to a Fiat 500. Surely the 500 would be much much more economical. It is just not nearly as nice.
Interesting analysis and very well put together. Teslas are positioned for purchase and BMW are positioned for lease. For example, I leased a $65k BMW 530e for $550/ month for 3 years / 36k miles. BMW gives a pretty good discount (much higher than what True Car indicates) and they really inflate their residual values to keep the payment down. Given, maintenance is included in the BMW and various government incentives help reduce up front costs, my BMW would cost $59k for 3 back to back lease terms, which is about the same as the depreciation and financing on the example given here. One could argue that prices go up every 3 years and the lease cost may be higher. In my experience, car companies hike MSRP every year but give a bigger discount to move older metal and lease prices actually go down (assuming stable interest rates). This wipes out the $13k for maintenance and repairs for the BMW, which makes it a cheaper cost of ownership relative to the Tesla, and you have a newer car with better equipment and updates every 3 years.
As of 2022 however the tax credit situation for these two vehicles is very different. The Tesla no longer is eligible for a tax credit. The BMW is eligible for at least $5000 in tax credits.
The tax laws have changed, the BMW is not eligible now, but the Tesla now will be. That’s a huge factor now. As of Aug 22
@@dennisstrimple6624 The BMW 330e is manufactured in Mexico, and likely will still be eligible.
I don’t see the true connection here, there are pro’s and cons on both cars to name them would take time. Depending on how you use these vehicles haven’t been compared, here in the uk charging stations aren’t that common, they are very different in many ways and not easily comparable.
I will buy a 2012 Tesla S if you can find me one at this price. No one in the market sells it at KBB values. Some (EV and ICE) are more and some models (ICE) are lower. I love ICE cars, but the one solid reason for going EV is the lack of oil changes and basic maintenance. The independent mechanics or dealers make this an extremely uncomfortable experience, i.e., appointment lead time, always upselling, completely disregarding the customer and imposing their false truths etc.
The reality, at least for me is very different. I have experience as a current owner of a Model S and owned several BMWs and Audis in the past. I’ve never owned a car with worse quality than the Tesla, not even the Alfas I’ve owned. The Tesla has cost me around the equivalent of 10,000$ the last one and a half year. The official Tesla workshop charge is not even an alternative when something brake, they are not interstate in fixing anything with real mechanical skills, it always changing big and very expensive components. When I brought the car to independent workshop they were often shocked at how bad the car is put together. All the wiring is horrible and corrodes like nothing else, constant electrical gremlins. As soon as you are out of warranty, this is the worst possible money pit. I’m going back to German!
Sorry to hear you have had a bad experience.
@@Cleanerwatt thanks mate! And I don’t want to come across a Tesla hater, I’m not, but I’ve seen so many calculations and done them myself and the two most important considerations are often not given enough weight. From what I’ve learned owning quite a few cars, fuel economy is seldom that important when calculating what a car costs to own, repairs/how often it brakes down and value loss are the really big factors. Now looking to sell the Tesla before it ruins my economy totally ;)
Wow, this was a great sales pitch for Tesla. It’s impossible to tell the life time costs of a car because there are many changing variables during its life, include cost of fuel/electricity, how the car is treated or abused, and if you are unlucky to purchase a dud. I had a 5 series for 8 years from new, had only about 3k in costs and ran up 80k miles. But seriously at these prices for cars, you’re not buying them to save money, you’re buying them for luxury and image. And zero emissions really has little to do with it, because your electricity is likely coming from a coal fired power plant, and the car wasn’t made by fairy’s using pixy dust. So let’s be realistic, if you really care about saving money and/or the environment, neither is a good choice.
8-year cost? Are you implying the BMW wouldn't last 10 years?
Not without you buying the service manager his new boat.
The bmw has the fit & finish of rolls royce & not a kit car. The bmw is less upfront money, has better financing & options including head up display, laser headlights & colors.
Well done!
I appreciate the obvious effort.
This is a quality channel.
Can we see a 4 year comparison? I would not own any of those models that long
Very biased comparison... I have had several BMW's over the years, never had a turbo go. Several friends have had to had motors replace, amongst many other things due to poor manufacturing. Repairs for the Tesla should have been around the 10,000 mark instead of 5,000. But when the battery fails after 150k miles, you can increase this to 30,000+.
You also forgot the following maintenance for the tesla:
Brake fluid health check every 2 years (replace if necessary).
A/C desiccant bag replacement every 6 years.
Cabin air filter replacement every 2 years.
Clean and lubricate brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles (20,000 km) if in an area where roads are salted during winter
Rotate tires every 6,250 miles (10,000 km) or if tread depth difference is 2/32 in (1.5 mm) or greater, whichever comes first
Disk brakes/pads every 20,000 miles or until worn, whichever comes first.
All in all the BMW has a cheaper cost per mile than the tesla. Not to mention the 5 series is in a completely different league to the Tesla... If you wanted an accurate comparison, you should have done the 330e :)
I appreciated the research and fairness in reaching your conclusions!
i figured it out. il buy a 2012 hybrid BMW, thanks
Kindly make one Tesla Model vs Mercedes
I would have thought the conclusion would be that money is not a major consideration..🙄
Turbo charger goes out after 100k miles ? Where you get this data ? Your estimations are full of crap .
Who keeps a luxury sedan for 8 yrs???