No police should be hired unless they pass basic intelligence and ethical standards tests, and predominantly black areas should have predominantly black police forces.
Phyllis R I understand exactly what you’re saying, I have a little boy and I struggle everyday with those feelings, I just want to steer clear of certain people because it never fails some sort of micro aggression is present at every turn, and I’m sick of it
@@charlesmarilynbillington3532 While I'm a Black American who is neither dark nor light skinned, I don't have green or gray eyes or what we used to call "good hair" back in the day. Not a pretty boy nevertheless I was raised to respect all women. I was a man of integrity. A lot of Black woman especially if they were very attractive wouldn't give me the time of day because I was nondescript. Yet the White women found me attractive intelligent and fun to be with. Fast forward into the many years later, now many Black women find me attractive after "Mr pretty boy" messed over them, gave them many children then abandoned them. I'd done something with my life and became somebody and have no brokenhearted women in my wake. At my age now I have no concern whatsoever about what people say nor think about me, I have no need to impress. That's what is great about growing old.
Here's typical description that goes over the radio: "The suspect is a tall short guy approximately 5'4 to 6'8, weighing between 135lbs to 300lbs. His hair is cut in a bald fade afro, with braids and dreadlocks. He was last seen wearing baggy blue jeans with basketball shorts, a dress casual shirt, slacks, and Jordan's. The suspect is considered to be unarmed and highly dangerous. The use of excessive force in the apprehension of the suspect is required."
Jackson Georgia, never go there in case you get shot by the police looking for a 6ft black man who shot one of their officers...stay out of Jackson Georgia period. ...time we went and got our promised land..
Please understand I bet 20 or more black men were apprehended and at least questioned .. but that's being nice... I am sure it's a lot worse that being questioned..
Holdup. She saying she saw a black male, who appeared to need help and approached and talked to him? Come on son! From the moment she said she saw a black male and walked towards him without her gun drawn I knew she was a liar!
When I was a young white guy, from my experience , white cops would put one hand on their service arm, go into a stance, while talking to myself or my brother, in generally courteous tones.
to give an update to this story, she is expected to serve 30-40yrs in prison. They offered her a 5yr prison sentence if she plead guilty but she refused and is now serving the full sentence. So glad she was caught and is now serving her prison sentence.
@Jerome Ashley Hi! Sorry, English is not my mother language. So, i do not get your question (if it is a question). In fact, I was just asking... I watched a lot of this kind of video and it appears that cops, whatever they illegally do to citizens, don’t worry about the consequences to them because they always get out of problems easily...
Corrupt cops have been singing that since...205 BCE. For instance, here in Philly, about 5 years ago, one shot himself in the leg because he didn't want to be posted in a certain section of the city. He gave a similar story, which was investigated and come to find out, of course he lied. If I can find the story, I'll post it.
The scary part is that any man who matched this description was in that area and was arrested, that person's life would have been ruined and possibly ended depending on the cop. This woman is sick and is just adding more hate to the mix. It's pretty messed up that someone like this can become a cop and there is definitely a lot more of them.
I know I'm late to post a reaction, but this was frightening to hear, especially today. I live in the county over from Jackson county, an as I listen to this story, I am currently wearing a lime green shirt, black sweats, and black and lime green tennis shoes because I walk to work early in the morning, so I wear this to be seen by oncoming traffic. Not to mention I am 5'9, 190lbs.. at any point, I could've been mistaken for the "so called individual", an shot an killed by police bc I fit the criteria of the suspect an I am licensed to carry..... THANK THE HIGHER POWERS THAT BE this was over a year ago and not recent...
@@josem.figueroajr.4532 That's the problem, it's way more then a few. They outnumber "good" cops 3-1 and even the so called "good" ones still rape Americans for revenue
brian mailey It is extremely SAD that this world is filled with people who hate us blacks.. WHY?? They can't tell you... This cop should be in an hospital for an psych evaluation.
Very well rehearsed. People like this is the very reason WHY people from certain communities feel 'targeted', 'marked' and not viewed as credible. This is also the reason why when POC call for police help, why our situations are NOT taken seriously.
Great analysis. I'm so tired of all the apologists saying well it's only a few bad apples. No! If you're a cop who stands by watching your colleagues commit crimes and oppressing the people, you are worse than them!
Kudos Phil. In 1975, a friend of mine, in Decatur, Illinois, was the subject of this same, heinous crime. He was charged and convicted of rape of a white girl, who's sexual exploits were suspect. Another friend was with him at the time of the initial encounter with this young girl and came back to tell us what he saw. The girl was very flirtatious and inviting our friend to indulge in whatever sexual act she had in mind. She had a reputation so bad, her parents were the type to check her underwear, or take her to the Dr. RED FLAG. Mind you, we were all still teens or just reaching 20 yrs old. The girl lied to her parents about the consensual sex, saying it was rape. I tried to rally my friend's mother into exposing this girl by bringing forth other guys who'd engaged in sexual contact with this girl. His mother refused. My friend got 10 years for a crime he didn't commit. I left Decatur shortly after that. This goes on to this day, even in our own Black community. There are girls who are just lost, feeling that the only way to garner attention is to fabricate an atrocious lie to get attention. And young Black men are suffering the consequences on a daily basis. MY DREAM is to see a system that incorporates a technique that exposes these lies b4 they escalate to tragic circumstances. The lie detector test isn't enough. Sadly, I've seen these things happen far too frequently in my life, to friends who made the wrong choices in who they were intimate with. I try to engage young men in dialog that influences them to stick to a plan they have for their future, and if they have no plan, assist them in one that leads to positive results. We need these young men to become strong, productive men in our culture, in this society.
If you pay attention to her actions further, she smirks quite often while telling her story. At some points, fighting back from outright laughing at her made up story.
Marvin Gaye asked the same question decades ago. His father confirmed what is still going on. Time for collective soul searching to truly be one nation....... ....
"It was a black man" is practically the National Anthem. I hope that these Cop Apologists are paying attention. Kudos to the good cops who investigated this and did the right thing. I only hope they will be able to keep their jobs. Now if only they will prosecute white MALE cops with this level of urgency.
This also happened in Philadelphia with a white male sergeant who said a black man shot him as he was sitting near train tracks. He was fired but he should’ve been arrested too.
We ask those three questions of an individual to see if they have any bias, but one thing we've learned throughout is that police officers lie. And they do it with a straight face like that police chief who sat down and talked with BLM protestors about police brutality and next we see him on Jan 6th at the capitol building rioting and vandalizing property.
Mr1_Rocketship 2luna but you can get that same list from being with a white man. they beat the heck out of the whole family and get in very little trouble because the law is on his side
Sameion Steele: She must have seen a black kid who she wanted to seduce. Too mant young Black boys been sentenced to DEATH for the LIES of this madness. Makes me think as to why the native American aphorism STATES - " White man speaks with FORKED TONGUE"!!!!
The Way I've Been Taught By My Elders & O.G's, If Your Looking Into Their Eyes Whether They Pass You Or Your Talking To Them, No Matter The Race, If They Look Down While Talking To You, Either They Are Lying Or They Are Scared!💯💩. And That's Something I've Learned Since Elementary School! EARLY
She sounds like she’s lying... I don’t exactly know why I know... it’s just how she’s telling the story. Wow... think about how many lies are told daily!
The details she puts into her lies is scary. Why people act like amber heard is incapable of creating a detailed story of abuse is beyond me. All the details and no evidence. People lie… it’s insane to think she went that far to shot herself knowing how they would investigate the crime. Did she think she had the perfect crime or what?
Can you imagine how many Black folks are locked up right now from this officer lying on them!!!!???
brian mailey, I CAN ONLY IMAGINE!!!
Facts.
@Adidas Man44 *of
Ooooohhh God have mercy
Not just now . imagen how many over all the years now. Its a disgrace
This is why people do not have faith in what a police officer says.
Krackers of a feather..............
michael preston floxs together 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
preston reported your comment for racism....two wrongs don't make a right
Are you scared to say white?
No police should be hired unless they pass basic intelligence and ethical standards tests, and predominantly black areas should have predominantly black police forces.
This makes me so angry. As a Black woman and mother of a Black son, I have to fight my feelings not to hate a whole segment of society.
Phyllis R yessss hunny. I feel you
If you mean monsters like her, I'm with you. As a while father and a human being.
Phyllis R I understand exactly what you’re saying, I have a little boy and I struggle everyday with those feelings, I just want to steer clear of certain people because it never fails some sort of micro aggression is present at every turn, and I’m sick of it
👍👍👍
Phyllis R I understand
She could have gotten an innocent guy killed! So disgusting
Fatima KostiJerevac .could have? I dare you to investigate the story... I bet several innocent men were captured and tortured behind this one lie
With those oogly lips
That describes me...I'm 6ft 1 weigh 230lbs, however I don't do drugs and am considered handsome by White women
@@Ma1nguy what are you considered by black women?
@@charlesmarilynbillington3532 While I'm a Black American who is neither dark nor light skinned, I don't have green or gray eyes or what we used to call "good hair" back in the day. Not a pretty boy nevertheless I was raised to respect all women. I was a man of integrity. A lot of Black woman especially if they were very attractive wouldn't give me the time of day because I was nondescript. Yet the White women found me attractive intelligent and fun to be with. Fast forward into the many years later, now many Black women find me attractive after "Mr pretty boy" messed over them, gave them many children then abandoned them. I'd done something with my life and became somebody and have no brokenhearted women in my wake. At my age now I have no concern whatsoever about what people say nor think about me, I have no need to impress. That's what is great about growing old.
There's no doubt she would have put an innocent man in jail to keep her story going
Yep and like he said why did she have a secret gun, because she may have intended to plant that on someone
her story does not even make since. it sounded like she was making it up as she went along
Julius Wilburn that’s bcuz she was
She's going to need an "imaginary lawyer".
Anonymous 1111 😂😂😂😂
😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@judemorgan1798 LMAO
Bwahahahaha 🤣⚰⚱
Bahhhhh🤣🤣🤣🤣
And they wonder why we don't trust the police?
They know why; they just like to play dumb and luagh about it.
she should have gotten mandatory 15 years for that anyone who lye to get someone kill 10 tpo 15 year automatic
what has happen to her since
+MAHOGANY ESSENCE what that got to do with the police?
Mac G white people like to follow command. I wouldn't doubt you.
5 8 to 6 feet. That covers all black men of average height..lol
Here's typical description that goes over the radio: "The suspect is a tall short guy approximately 5'4 to 6'8, weighing between 135lbs to 300lbs. His hair is cut in a bald fade afro, with braids and dreadlocks. He was last seen wearing baggy blue jeans with basketball shorts, a dress casual shirt, slacks, and Jordan's. The suspect is considered to be unarmed and highly dangerous. The use of excessive force in the apprehension of the suspect is required."
When she started smiling you can clearly see she was lying
Kenneth Copeland , she told that story like she thought she was wonder woman!
I was thinking ", what the hell she smilling about?" She Lying or she think she telling a fairy tale! Smh
Jackson Georgia, never go there in case you get shot by the police looking for a 6ft black man who shot one of their officers...stay out of Jackson Georgia period. ...time we went and got our promised land..
Its scary that she could've been taken seriously and then sadly a blk man could've been wrongfully incarcerated. smh
.....or killed
Please understand I bet 20 or more black men were apprehended and at least questioned .. but that's being nice... I am sure it's a lot worse that being questioned..
She's not beautiful!
Neisha Nine-Starz
I know this off topic but wow you beautiful Ms. Neisha. Where you from
Hey neisha
Holdup. She saying she saw a black male, who appeared to need help and approached and talked to him? Come on son! From the moment she said she saw a black male and walked towards him without her gun drawn I knew she was a liar!
Exactly
When I was a young white guy, from my experience , white cops would put one hand on their service arm, go into a stance, while talking to myself or my brother, in generally courteous tones.
Amen
It must be damn near impossible to find normal people that actually Want to be cops these days. Cop stories are getting worse than ever.
It's the truth seems like they hired every Psycho that comes in to apply.
@@gerardlee7088every department has at least 5 of them(assumption)
She got 15 years, but the trash deserved life w/o parole.
What year did this happen
I Am Telling You The Truth She got 15 years for assault on a police officer.
Only god knows how many innocent black man put in prison in the history
And they going to hell ...
yes GOD knows, so what's going to happen when judgment day comes!!
What pains me is that for every one of these people who get caught lying like this, there's probably 2 or three that actually get away with it.
And they lie and pretty much get away with it because she'll probably just get some probation and community service 😡
sounds about white
yep.
OMG I'm dead
Shawn King kmsl good one
LMAO LMAO LMAO
Shawn King lmao
Delusional!!! Wow, I'm so glad that this police department investigated, charged her, and will book her . . .AWFUL!!!
to give an update to this story, she is expected to serve 30-40yrs in prison. They offered her a 5yr prison sentence if she plead guilty but she refused and is now serving the full sentence. So glad she was caught and is now serving her prison sentence.
That crazy bish would've probably been out of prison by now if she had taken the deal.. Stupidity at it's finest
❤
Yes, indeed, what an awful person 😢
She ended up getting 15 years in prison, and 23 years of probation after that. Justice served, for once.
Are you sure ? Union is here to serve and protect her. She will be in the street soon and probably at work like nothing had happened...
@@philcos7637 wat year did this and wat year of her conviction
@Jerome Ashley Hi! Sorry, English is not my mother language. So, i do not get your question (if it is a question). In fact, I was just asking... I watched a lot of this kind of video and it appears that cops, whatever they illegally do to citizens, don’t worry about the consequences to them because they always get out of problems easily...
👋🏾👋🏾👋🏾👋🏾👋🏾
Yes thanks for the update
Somebody could've lost there life for no reason, smh!
people have already lost their lives for no reason.
TajBeat
she needs to go to jail
Sylvia Lawson Immediately.
To PRISON.
Corrupt cops have been singing that since...205 BCE.
For instance, here in Philly, about 5 years ago, one shot himself in the leg because he didn't want to be posted in a certain section of the city.
He gave a similar story, which was investigated and come to find out, of course he lied.
If I can find the story, I'll post it.
www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/05/11/philadelphia.cop.shot.self/
The black man is brilliant, witty, handsome, kind, beautiful, religious and absolutely awesome.
Thank you
Looks like she has no teeth in her mouth, 35 year old looks she is 60 years old
The scary part is that any man who matched this description was in that area and was arrested, that person's life would have been ruined and possibly ended depending on the cop. This woman is sick and is just adding more hate to the mix. It's pretty messed up that someone like this can become a cop and there is definitely a lot more of them.
I used to say getting rid one bad apple, these they have throw the whole basket of apples away because all of them are corrupt.
she looked like she had a smirk on her face
Lol I noticed that. Right when the video starts at 0:40
Saying too many "and ummm" is an indictor of fabricating a LIE.
No, that's how many people normally talk. I do it often when just around my family.
Be on the lookout for a black man between 4'8 and 6'10.
I'm staying in the house tonight.
In my Dave Chappelle voice
The hatred is real and should be clear to us, that there is nothing they wont do to try to destry us
Ok Susan Smith number 2! Up here lying about another black man!
# 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000...
How many is that...lol
I know I'm late to post a reaction, but this was frightening to hear, especially today. I live in the county over from Jackson county, an as I listen to this story, I am currently wearing a lime green shirt, black sweats, and black and lime green tennis shoes because I walk to work early in the morning, so I wear this to be seen by oncoming traffic. Not to mention I am 5'9, 190lbs.. at any point, I could've been mistaken for the "so called individual", an shot an killed by police bc I fit the criteria of the suspect an I am licensed to carry..... THANK THE HIGHER POWERS THAT BE this was over a year ago and not recent...
She probably saw her own shadow XD
hahaha know right
Not at all sir
Just saying how crazy her story sounds...
I didnt see any trolling in this comment
😂😂😂😂😂
this woman needs to be sent to jail for ten years.
Carla Sutton , and put in general population and asked,"You gone eat yo conebread"?
She needs to do more time than that
Lock up for life u mean...
"The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."
Psalm 58: 3 (kjv)
Bloodlines of Esau.
No doubt, No doubt!!!
@ shame on you
Did you see her hesitate? that's how you know she was lying
RIGHT THIS BITCH IS TRULY LYING
ALVIN THE GREAT Yeah she had to come up with a good lie so that she can look like a victim
wonder why Fox news didn't put this on blast like they do the black people!!!! Thanks for this video keep up the great work
I thought there were no bad cops? Lol
Whoever said that?
There ARE bad cops out there.
A few bad cops always taint the police's reputation.And you wonder why people don't trust the police AT ALL!
You thought wrong. There's bad people everywhere
@@josem.figueroajr.4532 That's the problem, it's way more then a few. They outnumber "good" cops 3-1 and even the so called "good" ones still rape Americans for revenue
@@kathleentate8343 Hi Kathleen!
When you hate a person or a people you will BELIEVE ANYTHING someone says about them. No matter how messed up the person.
brian mailey It is extremely SAD that this world is filled with people who hate us blacks.. WHY?? They can't tell you... This cop should be in an hospital for an psych evaluation.
Very well rehearsed.
People like this is the very reason WHY people from certain communities feel 'targeted', 'marked' and not viewed as credible.
This is also the reason why when POC call for police help, why our situations are NOT taken seriously.
Great analysis. I'm so tired of all the apologists saying well it's only a few bad apples. No! If you're a cop who stands by watching your colleagues commit crimes and oppressing the people, you are worse than them!
she sounds like Susan Smith for real king
Haile Selassie I was just thinking the same thing.
Kudos Phil. In 1975, a friend of mine, in Decatur, Illinois, was the subject of this same, heinous crime. He was charged and convicted of rape of a white girl, who's sexual exploits were suspect. Another friend was with him at the time of the initial encounter with this young girl and came back to tell us what he saw. The girl was very flirtatious and inviting our friend to indulge in whatever sexual act she had in mind. She had a reputation so bad, her parents were the type to check her underwear, or take her to the Dr. RED FLAG. Mind you, we were all still teens or just reaching 20 yrs old. The girl lied to her parents about the consensual sex, saying it was rape. I tried to rally my friend's mother into exposing this girl by bringing forth other guys who'd engaged in sexual contact with this girl. His mother refused. My friend got 10 years for a crime he didn't commit. I left Decatur shortly after that. This goes on to this day, even in our own Black community. There are girls who are just lost, feeling that the only way to garner attention is to fabricate an atrocious lie to get attention. And young Black men are suffering the consequences on a daily basis. MY DREAM is to see a system that incorporates a technique that exposes these lies b4 they escalate to tragic circumstances. The lie detector test isn't enough. Sadly, I've seen these things happen far too frequently in my life, to friends who made the wrong choices in who they were intimate with. I try to engage young men in dialog that influences them to stick to a plan they have for their future, and if they have no plan, assist them in one that leads to positive results. We need these young men to become strong, productive men in our culture, in this society.
I'm so grateful to have found your channel. I've learned so much already. Thank you for being an outstanding human being.
Any case she presented needs to be immediately reviewed
she was trying to get vacation with pay thats the new thing now. devil
KO if this would have happened 50 or 60 years ago this black man would have been dead over a lie.😡👿😈
damn dude, this make me not want to go anywhere
Frankie Cardona , you still got to live and do what you love otherwise those fool win!
This sound like everyday day life of these people! Her statement comes natural!
If you pay attention to her actions further, she smirks quite often while telling her story. At some points, fighting back from outright laughing at her made up story.
I caught that too if it was the scene was so dangerous where was the emotion in her recantation
Good job PHIL, speak the truth!!!!!!
Stand firm like a soldier, regardless who the hell disagrees!
What the fuck is happening to this country?
true
It's been going on forever.
We just have more access, technology, and video today
Marvin Gaye asked the same question decades ago. His father confirmed what is still going on. Time for collective soul searching to truly be one nation....... ....
@ the advice show thank you for reporting this
🤔 No Phil the dangerous part of this story is the police act like they can't go get her.
Police screening needs to be tightened up
"It was a black man" is practically the National Anthem. I hope that these Cop Apologists are paying attention. Kudos to the good cops who investigated this and did the right thing. I only hope they will be able to keep their jobs. Now if only they will prosecute white MALE cops with this level of urgency.
These people doing all this evil are finished and they don't even know it!
This also happened in Philadelphia with a white male sergeant who said a black man shot him as he was sitting near train tracks. He was fired but he should’ve been arrested too.
It’s amazing the length people will go to express their hate
"What they do to the least of us, they will do to all of us."
She learnt very well from her ancestors, damn!!!
what an excellent liar. That is scary.
I learn a about black history years ago, but i keep it to my self. My Respects to all my black brothers and sisters.
I thought all this police prospects where evaluated psychologically?, 🤦🏻♀️
Total Straight Up Truth, Happens in more than One Profession Too!! Keep Up The Good Work!!!
where is all the all lives matter people at.
Silent as usual when it comes to these stories!
They're all peeping 👀 out from under rocks embarrassed to show their shameful face..
We ask those three questions of an individual to see if they have any bias, but one thing we've learned throughout is that police officers lie. And they do it with a straight face like that police chief who sat down and talked with BLM protestors about police brutality and next we see him on Jan 6th at the capitol building rioting and vandalizing property.
Bro i dont get sick of your videos i appreciate that u do this and report this injustice consistantly. Keep up the good work
She looked down and here eyes went to the left. I took Interpersonal communications in college. I knew she was lying!
Chief James Morgan acts like he don't want to go through with it
Her ex must have been a black dude who wasn't very nice to her.
nah or she's just a racist which there are many racist against blacks
Yes Yes her Black Man passed her Ass Off.. SMH
Mr1_Rocketship 2luna but you can get that same list from being with a white man. they beat the heck out of the whole family and get in very little trouble because the law is on his side
nope just built in hate
Sameion Steele: She must have seen a black kid who she wanted to seduce.
Too mant young Black boys been sentenced to DEATH for the LIES of this
madness. Makes me think as to why the native American aphorism STATES -
" White man speaks with FORKED TONGUE"!!!!
The Way I've Been Taught By My Elders & O.G's, If Your Looking Into Their Eyes Whether They Pass You Or Your Talking To Them, No Matter The Race, If They Look Down While Talking To You, Either They Are Lying Or They Are Scared!💯💩. And That's Something I've Learned Since Elementary School! EARLY
She sounds like she’s lying... I don’t exactly know why I know... it’s just how she’s telling the story. Wow... think about how many lies are told daily!
And the Oscar goes to Pinocchio 🤥 imagine if a black man was walking down the road and she claimed that's him and he gets arrested and charged
DO It AND DO IT QUICKLY: booked, processed, and charged!!!!!!
Phil I can't add comment to this story, because you have said it all correctly! 👏🏼
if there had been a black man around and had been killed she would had gotten away with it
With the peoples like that lady SHE felt that she can get away with anything of whatever she says.
All this racism and hatred got them stuck with that evil behavior.
If she did hide behind her vehicle for protection, isn't she supposed to radio in for backup? She didn't mention that.
Phil you sick bro? The last few days your voice seemed to get more rough, get well soon and appreciate the dedication!
This is what i like to call mental stability.Way to go officer "HELL YEAH"
this happened right below me . I live in Griffin ga right next to jackson. Griffin is worst.
Jermaine Jackson I'll be coming for you.
They are trying everything now..... Imaginary Black Men... How can someone like that pass a psych evail????? Very Disturbing...
🇯🇲 Great Program. It's Good to teach Black people what they are up against. Our children have to be aware.
plot twist.... Susan Smith is her mother
I was think along this lines 😂😂
Why didn’t the black officer answer in the affirmative? (Why is he equivocating?)
brother your on point on everything you said
See how calmly and convincingly she lies. All her cases in court must be scrutinized based on her credibility.
This woman has killed a lot of black people I'm sure, and this should stop, please let us stand for our selves.from 🇳🇦
#BlueLivesMatter people where are you?
Avoiding this comment section like the plague.
It is very sad when anything like that has happened to them how could they sleep at night.
From the legendary biggie smalls 'who shot ya' lol
Actually,they may have initially believed her,but when looking for evidence(via cameras?),they discovered that no one else was around
Thank you for presenting these videos. Let the light of truth be shown.
Well since then she's been sentenced to 15 yrs in prison oh well.
Really?
Be very afraid of that accent
So what are you saying she's guilty I'm from Florida and have a acent
She’s very convincing. But I guess that’s how those people are.
From the time she open her mouth she didn't convince me that she was telling the truth I saw immediately that she was a liar!!
Figures, she's white. What can you expect?
The details she puts into her lies is scary. Why people act like amber heard is incapable of creating a detailed story of abuse is beyond me. All the details and no evidence. People lie… it’s insane to think she went that far to shot herself knowing how they would investigate the crime. Did she think she had the perfect crime or what?