1:38:05 The Cataphract (Byzantine horseman) is actually a 3 movement 15 strength melee unit because it gets defensive terrain bonus and can fortify, which makes them probably the best melee unit of Classical era.
Very nice video! Interesting how you once again state that boats aren't that good in Civ 5. I'm a player with almost 2000 hours and play only on deity. I find getting 3-4 highly promoted frigates often wins the games for me. The ridiculous range and damage of a fully upgraded battleship is just the most useful unit in the game for me. Even on maps like pangea. As you can probably guess, my favourite Civ is actually Suleiman. Great for navy, the Janissary is a really strong unit if played right. But yea, horse units are not useful (except for that one horse unit per game to take over a bombarded city). Otherwise I agree with the leader tier list. Thumbs up! :)
Inca is almost certainly S tier. The amount of population and science he can produce is absolutely unfathomable - a lot of Pachacuti's strengths are what's *not* written.
Thanks for the comment! I don't value situational benefits; it's why I didn't rank Petra highly in my wonders video. If you're the Inca and don't have good mountain placement you're basically a civ that only has a unique ability. Same reason I ranked Spain so poorly. Yeah, sometimes you get Lake Victoria or Great Barrier Reef and have the best game of your life. Sometimes you get the Barringer Crater or no natural wonder and play a vanilla civ. Whether or not the Inca can perform as you describe relies on map generation, which you can't control. I value civs that are consistently good, not ones that /can/ get incredible if they get lucky. Same reason I think Indonesia's UU is awful.
@@CruzaComplex Thanks for your comment! That’s certainly fair, I appreciate the methodology. However, Inca’s bonuses are pretty consistent - and it’s not just about terrace farm clusters. Having high pop, productive cities which are *guaranteed an observatory* due to Inca’s mountain bias, shared only by Austria, are basically Inca’s entire shtick. I don’t think I’ve played an Inca game in which 3/4 or 4/4 of my cities didn’t have observatories, which is huge. It’s important to remember that Inca, unlike other civs, actually has a strong, applicable start bias (unlike Netherlands, which can almost never build polders despite apparently being flavored for tiles that can have them). But the movement and improvement bonuses are also themselves extremely strong and consistent. Movement bonus is great for defense and offense (reminiscent of Persia, which is often considered A tier in multiplayer), and the discounted improvements allow the Inca to always be printing money. I may concede that Inca is S tier and let them fall in A (if S is strictly reserved for the traditional Babylon / Poland / Korea / Maya / Arabia), but even if so, it’s be at the very top of A. But very good tier list, and thanks again for the reply!
@@CruzaComplex I totally agree, I'd rather pick Spain for maximum gamble benefit and start with free worker + granary + 1 or 2 free settlers depending on the number of NW you find ( and you can even get some military with golds from Cs, so you can grab 3-4 early wonders easily ) If one of those wonders is Kilimandjaro then you are Inca, but on steroids just without terrace, especially on a 3B years map with lots of hills. You also get religion first very often if any religious city state is around for the free pantheon one with nature ( hello Uluru 4 food 20 faith on turn 10 ). I had some inca hype for a moment, but after playing a few flat plain/calendar lux maps, I realized that they were not so good without some specific conditions. But if you make a dream Inca start with IGE like a Petra salt/marble desert hills+ river + lake Victoria surrounded by desert wheat hills and those hills surrounded by 2 or 3 mountains each, then yeah, if deity doesn't kill you in the first 90 turns, he never will.
disagree w rome, problem is you build essential infrastructure all at once anyway. rome's ua shaves off 1-3 turns at most. it encourages sub-optimal play where you delay building outside the capital; it's not flexible to do that. b tier at most. denmark's main strength is that the beserker comes at metallurgy rather than steel. this is pretty impactful, because the timing on the tech tree is why longswordsmen usually suck. they get replaced too quickly by muskets; denmark's comes quite a bit earlier, and that is actually pretty good. babylon is definitely S tier and their two replacements are supposed to synergise with their science focus. bowmen are comp bows that come at archery rather than construction; that's huge, it means you survive easier until you get to construction, and don't need to detour construction as much as well (sometime you do on deity a lot anyway). coupled with better walls. korea is effectively the same concept as babylon except with gimmicky units that are mostly only useful on defense (that are much harder to use anyway) that come much later than bowmen and walls.
I don't know, I got an isolated and peaceful start with mountains and lots of forest/jungle/hills with Rome, so I could time that very well ( example i get market tech, I build It in captal while expands still build monument or granary/watermill which are already built there, then I get writing and build a library in capital while expands build markets etc... you litterally get + 25% production in all expands + 1 hammer in all cities if you go liberty with a peaceful game ). Also, when you build hubble in your capital, you get 25% production for spaceship factory, and if you overflow It with stuff like piety opener + building a shrine the turn before bulbing It, you can get a 1 turn building. The only sad part about Rome is the unique units, they are very good imo, but useless in deity, except if you have very favorable open terrain for attack with a weak neighbor like Maya or Egypt/Ethiopia building only wonders, and leaving the city without defensve units.
Been playing as Harald lately (not Deity, Prince with smarter AI mod) and i have to say: He is not that bad! Not good of course, but Berserkers are actually pretty good because they come at a tech you want to actually get (metal casting) instead of one usally ignored for ages (steel). Also, paying only 1 movement for disembarking means you can actually land artillery and fire the same turn, meaning you can actually take enemy cities the turn you declare war, and often without them realising it the turn before and asking if you are trying to attack. When used right, i think harald is actually C-Tier.
Thanks for the comment! IMO faith is the least important yield by several orders of magnitude and you're not guaranteed to get a religion on deity anyway. AI start with pottery and another settler so they can build shrines as their first buildings, unlike the player who is probably building shrines as their third build item in a single city. It's really hard to get a religion on deity. Archers, on the other hand, are essential. Composite bowmen are easily the best defensive unit for the entire early-game and archers are the best unit by a lot for dealing with barbarians. You NEED archers. Theology isn't even guaranteed to benefit you if you blitz it.
What is your reasoning for saying you want more coal? Coal is useless aside from factories, and if you have a 7 coal or a city-state allies coal as well i feel like it’s easy to have enough? Are you saying just bc coal is rare and sometimes only spawns 3 and you need >3?
1:09:20 Temple of Artemis/pyramids are the wonders that I get the most, if It's not gone at turn sub 20 ( quick speed ) It's yours on a 6 players map. I'm playing liberty for months now on deity with all civs, and even with Polynesia on a pangaea I could grab those easily ( easier than oracle to be fair ). The only guys that sometimes grab those before me are Rome and Greece for TOA and Rome/Egypt or Zulu for pyramids.
I'd argue that swedens UA does disproportionately benefit you, since the 10% stacks. So you could get like 40% GPG while giving 4 other civs only 10% (could go even higher in wacky circumstances, which i understand you dont like because situational but still fun) which is a pretty cool and significant boost. However obviously the tricky part is maintaining all those friendships...
You did say you switch off start bias. Why? The Inca becomes the funnest and best civ in the game with mountains and hils. (Pretty much guranteed 2 to 4 tiles with 3 to 6 food AND 2 production and almost as many 2 food 2 prod tiles you want) Also the very cheap tile improvemnts is a pretty huge deal regardless of start bias, but obviously even better with many hills. Also, you do move the initial settler twards the "biased" mountains ann settle next to one for the observatory in a huge capitol.
inca even without mountains around are still amazing. +2 production +2 food tiles are still really good, irrigated river hill farms are some of the best tiles in the game. inca can build the equivalent of those on any hill tile anywhere, something you definitely would rather do over mines. but it gets even more insane when mountains are around.
Spain, Celts, Songhai, Inca and Egypt and the Ottomans should all be moved up to A tier, Inca and Spain could probably even go higher to S. Sweden can move up to B as well. They're much more nuanced than you think. Ottoman units are incredibly oppressive at the rate you get them and you can stream-roll quite easily. Inca having full control of hills with basically intrinsic altitude training is immense neutral game that can't be overlooked. Inca with an army can be a force to be reckoned with because of that. They get incredible safety behind hills because enemies obviously don't have the same bonuses. Celts can stiff-arm a religious-> culture victory incredibly easily and with little to no trouble. Their unit is also good at pushing that and they retain bonuses outside friendly territory. Egypt has incredibly easy and natural culture/diplomatic victory because of their trait. Gold bonuses to make it even easier to sustain that. Spain if allowed to get even 2-3 natural wonders and an early scout to boot is one of the most abusive experiences you can have in a multiplayer and deity setting. It's just unfun to go through, amazing to play as though. Songhai has strong early cavalry units in the Mandakelu and they're stronger than Knights. Running a Militaristic Faith strategy is incredibly easy because of his UBand abusing barbarian camps let's you get away with a lot. Amphibious as a free promotion frees up a lot of potential promos on your units. I agree with just about everything else however, other than that those would be the ones I'd change. Oh...scratch that. Put the Zulu in a tier above S. They are the most absurd and ridiculous civs in civ 5 and will always be broken. Bee-lining statue of zeus into a few trebuchets and an infinite amount of impis should not be displayed to the world. Absolutely not xD
portugal is actually underrated. not saying its that great but the nau can actually give a lot of gold. build a bunch of triremes and upgrade them to naus. get like a shit ton of gold.
Outside of deity, Siam is the best civ. You get ungodly amount of culture, happiness and food from their ability. Most of your tiers don't apply outside of deity
Challenge is a prerequisite of worth; tier lists mean nothing without difficulty. Might as well rank pokemons' viability in the single player experience.
Thanks for the video! After 2k hours in civ 5 I was unaware of arab's bazaar ability to double the luxury resources due to clunky translation. Better late than never I guess. Any ideas about next civ 5 tier list? What about terrain or natural wonders tier list? Or social policies/pantheons.
I'm glad you liked it! Terrain is pretty one and done. Plains > grassland > everything else with hills being almost universally better than flat terrain. Also there's like five terrain types so that's a short video. Natural wonders maybe? I worry it'll be ten minutes of me saying "eh it's fine but it doesn't have food or production so who cares" Pantheons are based on your terrain 90% of the time and social policies have kinda been done before. Start with tradition, next is rationalism, then your ideology and anything extra goes wherever.
Just one thing you got wrong. Cavalry isn't bad.... No idea why you would be so anti-cavalry. The knight is the first unit that can hit and run. This hit and run mechanic is very powerful and allows you to get way more attacks off when limited on tiles. Ranged knight replacements like camels and keshiks are extremely broken because they are ranged hit and run.... If all cavalry is "bad", you are just "new".
3k hours and ~1.5k hours on deity, so I wouldn't say new. Yes, on perfectly flat terrain where cities are very spaced out, or in multiplayer where units are not expected to survive, cavalry can serve a purpose. That does not happen in single-player civ. It just doesn't. 4 movement means if you don't start adjacent to a unit, you can't move into rough terrain AT ALL and return to the tile you started on. That usually means you're ending your turn in bombardment range of a city, which equates to a dead cav unit. Cav need like 6 movement to effectively serve the purpose you're describing without hemorrhaging HP or risking losses, because without that mobility any rough terrain whatsoever shuts them down. --And this is assuming rivers and ZOC just don't exist. You can sort of get around this by parking cav directly adjacent to a unit you want to attack, but generally the AI will only let you do that outside city bombardment range if you're the one being attacked, which is just bad. Cav don't have defensive terrain buffs or the cover promotion so even though they have higher combat strength, they're more squishy than a contemporary melee unit. Cav suck until tanks, then they're just whatever.
@@CruzaComplex That is fine. I wasn't intending to sound insulting, so I apologize for that. However I have too many hours in both single and MP. It's probably over 12k. It is fine to have different ideas, but I am pretty sure if you learn proper knight play you will find them very useful. The movement is 4 on flat ground WITHOUT roads. If you have roads that movement is doubled. So you can be hitting and running from 3-4 tiles away. What it comes down to is how many attacks you can get on each turn. I'd argue that infantry is useless until GW infantry, other then a couple pikes.
@@ivanredinger969 well, if you rush knights, you end up with pikemen knights and composite bowmen army. If you just go AI's route, you get crossbows and longswordsmen, I'll pick the AI's army everyday if we talk about a random map. You can love cavalry, and perform well with It, sure. Is It the best ground unit in game? Hell no. If you can kill your neighbor with cavalry and pikemen, I'll always wonder why you didn't do that with chariot archers and spearmen 40-50 turns earlier, when their army and cities were not too big, especially if you can upgrade them to camel archers or keshiks. I'd even say that I prefer sacrificing 1 or 2 unpromoted swordsmen or even a scout if I still have them if just for the sake of capturing a city, rather than teching just for a knight, you can still train a light cavalry for taking the city from 4 tiles away, and if AI captures the city back, you don't feel like you wasted 4-5 turns reasearching chivalry, and again 3-5 turns training a quite expensive unit in terms of hammers ( you won't have workshops if you rush chivalry, and I already had maps with no more than 2-4 horses ). That's why I do not consider Arabia or Mongolia so strong, they are good civs to kill your neighbor, but dominating the world requires more than just a few horses and camels ( if rough terrain, any war sucks against AI before artillery and bombers, because you lose the ability to outmanoeuvre their carpets of doom , and those unique units, as fantastic as they are, will never bring you much further on quick speed if you have some semi competent AI like Rome/Poland/Russia or Zulu, but on MP, It is an other story for sure ). I just won with Russia on deity pangaea a few days ago to try them, and not at any moment when Carthage declared war on me I thought " oh Russia has unique cavalry, this will help me win the war!", I just threw some pikemen/gatlings to kill their army, and researched oil + bulbed great war bombers to take the capital after I took out all their units while sieging the expand first, despite having cavalry and riflemen, they could not break through upgraded gatling lines, It is kinda the same for knights vs crossbows, but with infantry protecting them. But please prove me wrong with some rough terrain map where you kill big warmonger AI with knights, maybe I don't know how to use them properly, but I'd rather keep pumping longswordsmen and crossbows than counting on knights or cavalry to kill deity armies.
@@Steevy84 Wow my comment was worth responding to with a book? You are sub 1000 elo obviously, if you think you are smart then think again..... nvmd dont think, leave that to others.
@@ivanredinger969 Oh come on Karen, no need to be so salty, you should consider growing up a bit. There is no elo or ranking in civilization 5, stop saying nonsense and insulting people just because someone doesn't validate your dumb passive agressive statements, reread yourself, you are very condescending and disrespectful. Mounted units just suck vs deity in general, except maybe cavalry who have decent CS and are not facing anti mounted units anymore in this era like spearmen and pikemen. The video is about single player vs deity, not MP, so you are wrong, most of the times horses are used to trade vs gold, not to make shitty 12 CS mounted units vs pikemen and longswordsmen...
1:38:05 The Cataphract (Byzantine horseman) is actually a 3 movement 15 strength melee unit because it gets defensive terrain bonus and can fortify, which makes them probably the best melee unit of Classical era.
was looking for a tier list yesterday and then this showed up in my recommended, thank u algorithm
Just use filthys
Very nice video! Interesting how you once again state that boats aren't that good in Civ 5. I'm a player with almost 2000 hours and play only on deity. I find getting 3-4 highly promoted frigates often wins the games for me. The ridiculous range and damage of a fully upgraded battleship is just the most useful unit in the game for me. Even on maps like pangea.
As you can probably guess, my favourite Civ is actually Suleiman. Great for navy, the Janissary is a really strong unit if played right. But yea, horse units are not useful (except for that one horse unit per game to take over a bombarded city).
Otherwise I agree with the leader tier list. Thumbs up! :)
Inca is almost certainly S tier. The amount of population and science he can produce is absolutely unfathomable - a lot of Pachacuti's strengths are what's *not* written.
Thanks for the comment! I don't value situational benefits; it's why I didn't rank Petra highly in my wonders video. If you're the Inca and don't have good mountain placement you're basically a civ that only has a unique ability. Same reason I ranked Spain so poorly. Yeah, sometimes you get Lake Victoria or Great Barrier Reef and have the best game of your life. Sometimes you get the Barringer Crater or no natural wonder and play a vanilla civ.
Whether or not the Inca can perform as you describe relies on map generation, which you can't control. I value civs that are consistently good, not ones that /can/ get incredible if they get lucky. Same reason I think Indonesia's UU is awful.
@@CruzaComplex Thanks for your comment! That’s certainly fair, I appreciate the methodology. However, Inca’s bonuses are pretty consistent - and it’s not just about terrace farm clusters. Having high pop, productive cities which are *guaranteed an observatory* due to Inca’s mountain bias, shared only by Austria, are basically Inca’s entire shtick. I don’t think I’ve played an Inca game in which 3/4 or 4/4 of my cities didn’t have observatories, which is huge. It’s important to remember that Inca, unlike other civs, actually has a strong, applicable start bias (unlike Netherlands, which can almost never build polders despite apparently being flavored for tiles that can have them).
But the movement and improvement bonuses are also themselves extremely strong and consistent. Movement bonus is great for defense and offense (reminiscent of Persia, which is often considered A tier in multiplayer), and the discounted improvements allow the Inca to always be printing money.
I may concede that Inca is S tier and let them fall in A (if S is strictly reserved for the traditional Babylon / Poland / Korea / Maya / Arabia), but even if so, it’s be at the very top of A.
But very good tier list, and thanks again for the reply!
@@CruzaComplex I totally agree, I'd rather pick Spain for maximum gamble benefit and start with free worker + granary + 1 or 2 free settlers depending on the number of NW you find ( and you can even get some military with golds from Cs, so you can grab 3-4 early wonders easily )
If one of those wonders is Kilimandjaro then you are Inca, but on steroids just without terrace, especially on a 3B years map with lots of hills.
You also get religion first very often if any religious city state is around for the free pantheon one with nature ( hello Uluru 4 food 20 faith on turn 10 ).
I had some inca hype for a moment, but after playing a few flat plain/calendar lux maps, I realized that they were not so good without some specific conditions.
But if you make a dream Inca start with IGE like a Petra salt/marble desert hills+ river + lake Victoria surrounded by desert wheat hills and those hills surrounded by 2 or 3 mountains each, then yeah, if deity doesn't kill you in the first 90 turns, he never will.
disagree w rome, problem is you build essential infrastructure all at once anyway. rome's ua shaves off 1-3 turns at most. it encourages sub-optimal play where you delay building outside the capital; it's not flexible to do that. b tier at most.
denmark's main strength is that the beserker comes at metallurgy rather than steel. this is pretty impactful, because the timing on the tech tree is why longswordsmen usually suck. they get replaced too quickly by muskets; denmark's comes quite a bit earlier, and that is actually pretty good.
babylon is definitely S tier and their two replacements are supposed to synergise with their science focus. bowmen are comp bows that come at archery rather than construction; that's huge, it means you survive easier until you get to construction, and don't need to detour construction as much as well (sometime you do on deity a lot anyway). coupled with better walls. korea is effectively the same concept as babylon except with gimmicky units that are mostly only useful on defense (that are much harder to use anyway) that come much later than bowmen and walls.
I don't know, I got an isolated and peaceful start with mountains and lots of forest/jungle/hills with Rome, so I could time that very well ( example i get market tech, I build It in captal while expands still build monument or granary/watermill which are already built there, then I get writing and build a library in capital while expands build markets etc... you litterally get + 25% production in all expands + 1 hammer in all cities if you go liberty with a peaceful game ).
Also, when you build hubble in your capital, you get 25% production for spaceship factory, and if you overflow It with stuff like piety opener + building a shrine the turn before bulbing It, you can get a 1 turn building.
The only sad part about Rome is the unique units, they are very good imo, but useless in deity, except if you have very favorable open terrain for attack with a weak neighbor like Maya or Egypt/Ethiopia building only wonders, and leaving the city without defensve units.
Been playing as Harald lately (not Deity, Prince with smarter AI mod) and i have to say: He is not that bad! Not good of course, but Berserkers are actually pretty good because they come at a tech you want to actually get (metal casting) instead of one usally ignored for ages (steel). Also, paying only 1 movement for disembarking means you can actually land artillery and fire the same turn, meaning you can actually take enemy cities the turn you declare war, and often without them realising it the turn before and asking if you are trying to attack. When used right, i think harald is actually C-Tier.
I think the point of the Maya atalist is that it enables you to rush theology to get you civ bonus without taking a massive military hit.
You’re gonna tech archery anyways
Thanks for the comment! IMO faith is the least important yield by several orders of magnitude and you're not guaranteed to get a religion on deity anyway. AI start with pottery and another settler so they can build shrines as their first buildings, unlike the player who is probably building shrines as their third build item in a single city. It's really hard to get a religion on deity.
Archers, on the other hand, are essential. Composite bowmen are easily the best defensive unit for the entire early-game and archers are the best unit by a lot for dealing with barbarians. You NEED archers. Theology isn't even guaranteed to benefit you if you blitz it.
What is your reasoning for saying you want more coal? Coal is useless aside from factories, and if you have a 7 coal or a city-state allies coal as well i feel like it’s easy to have enough? Are you saying just bc coal is rare and sometimes only spawns 3 and you need >3?
Yeah, the latter. Seems like having no coal despite having conquered two empires by the industrial age is a given.
also babylon's archer doesn't just have stronger melee strength. It has higher range strength 7 -> 9.
1:09:20 Temple of Artemis/pyramids are the wonders that I get the most, if It's not gone at turn sub 20 ( quick speed ) It's yours on a 6 players map.
I'm playing liberty for months now on deity with all civs, and even with Polynesia on a pangaea I could grab those easily ( easier than oracle to be fair ).
The only guys that sometimes grab those before me are Rome and Greece for TOA and Rome/Egypt or Zulu for pyramids.
I'd argue that swedens UA does disproportionately benefit you, since the 10% stacks. So you could get like 40% GPG while giving 4 other civs only 10% (could go even higher in wacky circumstances, which i understand you dont like because situational but still fun) which is a pretty cool and significant boost. However obviously the tricky part is maintaining all those friendships...
Valid! It's pretty hard to stay friend with that many civs tho, especially after ideologies. Usually you have 1-2 friends.
inca in b tier and shoshone in c tier is hysterical
You did say you switch off start bias. Why? The Inca becomes the funnest and best civ in the game with mountains and hils. (Pretty much guranteed 2 to 4 tiles with 3 to 6 food AND 2 production and almost as many 2 food 2 prod tiles you want) Also the very cheap tile improvemnts is a pretty huge deal regardless of start bias, but obviously even better with many hills. Also, you do move the initial settler twards the "biased" mountains ann settle next to one for the observatory in a huge capitol.
inca even without mountains around are still amazing. +2 production +2 food tiles are still really good, irrigated river hill farms are some of the best tiles in the game. inca can build the equivalent of those on any hill tile anywhere, something you definitely would rather do over mines. but it gets even more insane when mountains are around.
I won my first game yesterday as the Incas 💪🏽🎉
@@Malibudude Nice
Some start bias are OP and others are game ruiningly bad like Russia. Also Incas is broken anyways so who cares
this tierlist is so dogshit I actually got a stroke when he put shoshone in the same tier as france
Spain, Celts, Songhai, Inca and Egypt and the Ottomans should all be moved up to A tier, Inca and Spain could probably even go higher to S. Sweden can move up to B as well.
They're much more nuanced than you think. Ottoman units are incredibly oppressive at the rate you get them and you can stream-roll quite easily.
Inca having full control of hills with basically intrinsic altitude training is immense neutral game that can't be overlooked. Inca with an army can be a force to be reckoned with because of that.
They get incredible safety behind hills because enemies obviously don't have the same bonuses.
Celts can stiff-arm a religious-> culture victory incredibly easily and with little to no trouble. Their unit is also good at pushing that and they retain bonuses outside friendly territory.
Egypt has incredibly easy and natural culture/diplomatic victory because of their trait. Gold bonuses to make it even easier to sustain that.
Spain if allowed to get even 2-3 natural wonders and an early scout to boot is one of the most abusive experiences you can have in a multiplayer and deity setting. It's just unfun to go through, amazing to play as though.
Songhai has strong early cavalry units in the Mandakelu and they're stronger than Knights. Running a Militaristic Faith strategy is incredibly easy because of his UBand abusing barbarian camps let's you get away with a lot. Amphibious as a free promotion frees up a lot of potential promos on your units.
I agree with just about everything else however, other than that those would be the ones I'd change.
Oh...scratch that. Put the Zulu in a tier above S. They are the most absurd and ridiculous civs in civ 5 and will always be broken. Bee-lining statue of zeus into a few trebuchets and an infinite amount of impis should not be displayed to the world. Absolutely not xD
Rome in S tier?
common weeb L
portugal is actually underrated. not saying its that great but the nau can actually give a lot of gold. build a bunch of triremes and upgrade them to naus. get like a shit ton of gold.
I usually never comment, but i just wanted to say, please upload some civ5 gameplay
babylon is a top 3 civ alongside poland/korea not having them in s in insane. also chopping jungles???? no what are you doing lol
Songhai on marathon is SSSSSSS tier
Outside of deity, Siam is the best civ. You get ungodly amount of culture, happiness and food from their ability.
Most of your tiers don't apply outside of deity
Challenge is a prerequisite of worth; tier lists mean nothing without difficulty. Might as well rank pokemons' viability in the single player experience.
Thanks for the video! After 2k hours in civ 5 I was unaware of arab's bazaar ability to double the luxury resources due to clunky translation. Better late than never I guess. Any ideas about next civ 5 tier list? What about terrain or natural wonders tier list? Or social policies/pantheons.
I'm glad you liked it! Terrain is pretty one and done. Plains > grassland > everything else with hills being almost universally better than flat terrain. Also there's like five terrain types so that's a short video.
Natural wonders maybe? I worry it'll be ten minutes of me saying "eh it's fine but it doesn't have food or production so who cares"
Pantheons are based on your terrain 90% of the time and social policies have kinda been done before. Start with tradition, next is rationalism, then your ideology and anything extra goes wherever.
Just one thing you got wrong. Cavalry isn't bad.... No idea why you would be so anti-cavalry. The knight is the first unit that can hit and run. This hit and run mechanic is very powerful and allows you to get way more attacks off when limited on tiles.
Ranged knight replacements like camels and keshiks are extremely broken because they are ranged hit and run....
If all cavalry is "bad", you are just "new".
3k hours and ~1.5k hours on deity, so I wouldn't say new.
Yes, on perfectly flat terrain where cities are very spaced out, or in multiplayer where units are not expected to survive, cavalry can serve a purpose.
That does not happen in single-player civ. It just doesn't. 4 movement means if you don't start adjacent to a unit, you can't move into rough terrain AT ALL and return to the tile you started on. That usually means you're ending your turn in bombardment range of a city, which equates to a dead cav unit. Cav need like 6 movement to effectively serve the purpose you're describing without hemorrhaging HP or risking losses, because without that mobility any rough terrain whatsoever shuts them down. --And this is assuming rivers and ZOC just don't exist.
You can sort of get around this by parking cav directly adjacent to a unit you want to attack, but generally the AI will only let you do that outside city bombardment range if you're the one being attacked, which is just bad. Cav don't have defensive terrain buffs or the cover promotion so even though they have higher combat strength, they're more squishy than a contemporary melee unit.
Cav suck until tanks, then they're just whatever.
@@CruzaComplex That is fine. I wasn't intending to sound insulting, so I apologize for that. However I have too many hours in both single and MP. It's probably over 12k.
It is fine to have different ideas, but I am pretty sure if you learn proper knight play you will find them very useful.
The movement is 4 on flat ground WITHOUT roads. If you have roads that movement is doubled. So you can be hitting and running from 3-4 tiles away.
What it comes down to is how many attacks you can get on each turn.
I'd argue that infantry is useless until GW infantry, other then a couple pikes.
@@ivanredinger969 well, if you rush knights, you end up with pikemen knights and composite bowmen army.
If you just go AI's route, you get crossbows and longswordsmen, I'll pick the AI's army everyday if we talk about a random map.
You can love cavalry, and perform well with It, sure.
Is It the best ground unit in game? Hell no.
If you can kill your neighbor with cavalry and pikemen, I'll always wonder why you didn't do that with chariot archers and spearmen 40-50 turns earlier, when their army and cities were not too big, especially if you can upgrade them to camel archers or keshiks.
I'd even say that I prefer sacrificing 1 or 2 unpromoted swordsmen or even a scout if I still have them if just for the sake of capturing a city, rather than teching just for a knight, you can still train a light cavalry for taking the city from 4 tiles away, and if AI captures the city back, you don't feel like you wasted 4-5 turns reasearching chivalry, and again 3-5 turns training a quite expensive unit in terms of hammers ( you won't have workshops if you rush chivalry, and I already had maps with no more than 2-4 horses ).
That's why I do not consider Arabia or Mongolia so strong, they are good civs to kill your neighbor, but dominating the world requires more than just a few horses and camels ( if rough terrain, any war sucks against AI before artillery and bombers, because you lose the ability to outmanoeuvre their carpets of doom , and those unique units, as fantastic as they are, will never bring you much further on quick speed if you have some semi competent AI like Rome/Poland/Russia or Zulu, but on MP, It is an other story for sure ).
I just won with Russia on deity pangaea a few days ago to try them, and not at any moment when Carthage declared war on me I thought " oh Russia has unique cavalry, this will help me win the war!", I just threw some pikemen/gatlings to kill their army, and researched oil + bulbed great war bombers to take the capital after I took out all their units while sieging the expand first, despite having cavalry and riflemen, they could not break through upgraded gatling lines, It is kinda the same for knights vs crossbows, but with infantry protecting them.
But please prove me wrong with some rough terrain map where you kill big warmonger AI with knights, maybe I don't know how to use them properly, but I'd rather keep pumping longswordsmen and crossbows than counting on knights or cavalry to kill deity armies.
@@Steevy84 Wow my comment was worth responding to with a book?
You are sub 1000 elo obviously, if you think you are smart then think again..... nvmd dont think, leave that to others.
@@ivanredinger969 Oh come on Karen, no need to be so salty, you should consider growing up a bit.
There is no elo or ranking in civilization 5, stop saying nonsense and insulting people just because someone doesn't validate your dumb passive agressive statements, reread yourself, you are very condescending and disrespectful.
Mounted units just suck vs deity in general, except maybe cavalry who have decent CS and are not facing anti mounted units anymore in this era like spearmen and pikemen.
The video is about single player vs deity, not MP, so you are wrong, most of the times horses are used to trade vs gold, not to make shitty 12 CS mounted units vs pikemen and longswordsmen...
Kekw. Persia is best nation)))
I'm a Venice player, my focus is on religion and politics, definitely not everyones cup of tea. I enjoy the challenge