I believe best sid version is the one that tune is composed for. In other words, something composed for 8580 sid may sound outright wrong and distorted on 6581, just because it simply wasn't made to work with that chip. I have always had 6581 sid version in my C64, which is one I've come accustomed to, but that doesn't mean it's better on tunes that were composed to 8580. Sadly recently my good old 6581 failed and is now missing one channel. Armsid is my next sid, as original chips will eventually fail. But I'm looking forward to armsid as then I have possibility to use either 6581 or 8580 model, and perhaps even configure 6581 filters to resemble my good old chip.
Nice comparison !! If you have practice in soldering, you can put a 330k ohm resistor between pin 26 and GND of 8580 sid and you have back the 4 bit samples of the 6581, or you can put a 2Mohm trimmer in place of the resistor and try to find the best balance of the sound.
great vid ! anyone that’s ever had the pleasure of testing out a lot of different SID chips will tell you that every single one sounds slightly different!
I just want to make a note. You should compare them with older titles that we released BEFORE the 8580 was created. Your chosen example was written for the 8580. What I hope you find is that the chip that sounds best is dependent on which chip the software was written for.
I don't have a preference between one SID or the other. Honestly with all the 64's in my collection I was just always happy when the SID just worked. While the SID generates the sound the actual quality of the sound output can be affected by other components in the circuit. I have a friend who can hear things in music I will never be able to hear. For me if it sounds good its good enough so long as the sound it clean so I never put any thought into the differences between the versions of the SID which are all slowly dying.
All tunes presented are composed predominantly for 6581. As a musician I like 8580 more as it's more coherent across machines and flexible to use. Also allows for more nice tricks. But 6581 also has its charm.
The major difference between the new and the old is with voice synthesis - if I play "Impossible Mission" on my breadbox C64, I can hear the "Stay Awhile, Stay Forever" loud and clear - whereas on my C64C - it is much quieter. Apart from that, most things sound the same.
interesting comparisons between the 6581 & 8580 Sid Chips and board revisions in their sound differences. the voltage differences as you state would make it difficult to use in the same board , though there are plug in Cartridge boards I believe that can utilise both. you touched on SidPlay. Sid Symphony, Mister FPGH , Ultimate II & 64 with flash . for my purpose I would need a UK / EU compatible board / Cart to take advantage of the two Sids. Further on two other sids were mentioned, Armcip and Swinsid, do these both differ also and have you tested them out
Retrocengo, you have to get Armchip that is new sid chip emulating both sounds, because old sid chips start to be broken. Adrians basement he was testing Armchip and said at the moment it is the best emulating old chip sound. 👍
Sounds great😅 But why emulate when I got the real thing? Man I really enjoy 1541 ultimate with Sid player, fully recommend 😊 Thanks for your recommendation
@@RETROCENGO Adrian was testing differend sid chips and collect sid that was still ok. And test those sid chips half year later, half of them were broken. That is the reason why Armsid is developed because sooner or later those sid chips are going to be broken and new ones are not made anymore. That is the reason. Keep up good work man. 👍
@@orgothegreat5985 so sad, especially the 6581 12v sids. Have you tried SwinSID? I don’t know how good it is. But many resellers here in Denmark sells there Commodore 64 with that SwinSID, you know how it is compared to armsid? Also price? I don’t know adrian
@@RETROCENGO Sorry i do not that sid, i hear it first time. Adrians basement is the channel name here at utube. He is fixing differend retro stuff and testing differendt pla chips and everything because old chips start to break. I do not remember how much that Armchip was but it will not break your bank. And if you are interested new C64 board that can play 3 sids at the same time, channel name Matthias on utube you see him playing 3 sids same time, song name is new Horizon. Matthias have developed that board and many other C64 variants, you should check it out. He is german guy so he should be close to you.
So I just got a 128DCR and it has the 8580. It sounds crisp and clear but some songs for the 6581 "pop" and the samples wont play. There is a mod for this but still the 8580 sounds great.
Are there samples for all these? Sometimes you wanna replicate a particular tri wave from the 6580 series but the only samples you can find are for the 8500s. If you could sample pure waves of each tone these generate and pack them up in a neatly organized zip labeled by the actual chip they use and not the generic 'c64' tag they usually have, you'd be helping musicians and internet historians out tremendously, more than you could ever possibly know.
bread bin vs c64c. the only difference is the digital is more clear and loud on the 6580 better than 6581 modern sid. i found i like the backsid more with that bass sound to it. when i was composing i wish i had more tracks than 3 at the time lol
@@RETROCENGO : Yes indeed, parts of the music were too quiet on my C64c 8580. I also recall music with samples would sometimes not work as well on it. But If you could check out G’nG
I believe best sid version is the one that tune is composed for. In other words, something composed for 8580 sid may sound outright wrong and distorted on 6581, just because it simply wasn't made to work with that chip. I have always had 6581 sid version in my C64, which is one I've come accustomed to, but that doesn't mean it's better on tunes that were composed to 8580. Sadly recently my good old 6581 failed and is now missing one channel. Armsid is my next sid, as original chips will eventually fail. But I'm looking forward to armsid as then I have possibility to use either 6581 or 8580 model, and perhaps even configure 6581 filters to resemble my good old chip.
Your excitement is contagious 😁👍
It’s hard not to be exited with the SID sounds, right?😊😊
I agree - both great in their own way. Thanks a lot bud!
Most welcome brother 🙏🏻😊
Nice comparison !! If you have practice in soldering, you can put a 330k ohm resistor between pin 26 and GND of 8580 sid and you have back the 4 bit samples of the 6581, or you can put a 2Mohm trimmer in place of the resistor and try to find the best balance of the sound.
@@Audiosonicity Thanks, awesome info🤩
RetroCengo you and your C=, love it :-)
Can’t help it buddy, nostalgic love tickles the old heart
Me also! Keep it up maan! 👍
@@glow_n_show8968 Thanks buddy
great vid ! anyone that’s ever had the pleasure of testing out a lot of different SID chips will tell you that every single one sounds slightly different!
Thanks buddy 😊🙏🏼
Yes with different revisions they are all great, love the SID
I just want to make a note. You should compare them with older titles that we released BEFORE the 8580 was created. Your chosen example was written for the 8580. What I hope you find is that the chip that sounds best is dependent on which chip the software was written for.
I don't have a preference between one SID or the other. Honestly with all the 64's in my collection I was just always happy when the SID just worked. While the SID generates the sound the actual quality of the sound output can be affected by other components in the circuit. I have a friend who can hear things in music I will never be able to hear. For me if it sounds good its good enough so long as the sound it clean so I never put any thought into the differences between the versions of the SID which are all slowly dying.
Both versions and all the revisions are great in there own way, I also love them all. SID🤩
All tunes presented are composed predominantly for 6581. As a musician I like 8580 more as it's more coherent across machines and flexible to use. Also allows for more nice tricks. But 6581 also has its charm.
The major difference between the new and the old is with voice synthesis - if I play "Impossible Mission" on my breadbox C64, I can hear the "Stay Awhile, Stay Forever" loud and clear - whereas on my C64C - it is much quieter. Apart from that, most things sound the same.
interesting comparisons between the 6581 & 8580 Sid Chips and board revisions in their sound differences. the voltage differences as you state would make it difficult to use in the same board , though there are plug in Cartridge boards I believe that can utilise both. you touched on SidPlay. Sid Symphony, Mister FPGH , Ultimate II & 64 with flash . for my purpose I would need a UK / EU compatible board / Cart to take advantage of the two Sids. Further on two other sids were mentioned, Armcip and Swinsid, do these both differ also and have you tested them out
Retrocengo, you have to get Armchip that is new sid chip emulating both sounds, because old sid chips start to be broken. Adrians basement he was testing Armchip and said at the moment it is the best emulating old chip sound. 👍
Sounds great😅
But why emulate when I got the real thing? Man I really enjoy 1541 ultimate with Sid player, fully recommend 😊
Thanks for your recommendation
The name of that was Armsid and not the Armchip. Sorry
@@RETROCENGO Adrian was testing differend sid chips and collect sid that was still ok. And test those sid chips half year later, half of them were broken. That is the reason why Armsid is developed because sooner or later those sid chips are going to be broken and new ones are not made anymore. That is the reason. Keep up good work man. 👍
@@orgothegreat5985 so sad, especially the 6581 12v sids.
Have you tried SwinSID? I don’t know how good it is. But many resellers here in Denmark sells there Commodore 64 with that SwinSID, you know how it is compared to armsid? Also price?
I don’t know adrian
@@RETROCENGO Sorry i do not that sid, i hear it first time. Adrians basement is the channel name here at utube. He is fixing differend retro stuff and testing differendt pla chips and everything because old chips start to break. I do not remember how much that Armchip was but it will not break your bank. And if you are interested new C64 board that can play 3 sids at the same time, channel name Matthias on utube you see him playing 3 sids same time, song name is new Horizon. Matthias have developed that board and many other C64 variants, you should check it out. He is german guy so he should be close to you.
Love them both but that tune on the 8580 sounds amazing
They are great in there own ways🤩
So I just got a 128DCR and it has the 8580. It sounds crisp and clear but some songs for the 6581 "pop" and the samples wont play. There is a mod for this but still the 8580 sounds great.
If the Sid tune is made for the 8580 it sounds amazing
both have their own character, if i am correct Jeroen used a breadbin to compose his music on.
He has made some amazing tunes.
I grew up with the 6581 but the 8580 sounds better in the base but 6581 sounds more electronic. tough call they both sound amazing!
Are there samples for all these?
Sometimes you wanna replicate a particular tri wave from the 6580 series but the only samples you can find are for the 8500s.
If you could sample pure waves of each tone these generate and pack them up in a neatly organized zip labeled by the actual chip they use and not the generic 'c64' tag they usually have, you'd be helping musicians and internet historians out tremendously, more than you could ever possibly know.
bread bin vs c64c. the only difference is the digital is more clear and loud on the 6580 better than 6581 modern sid. i found i like the backsid more with that bass sound to it. when i was composing i wish i had more tracks than 3 at the time lol
Now compare Ghouls ‘n Ghosts on both.
Is there big difference? Interesting 🤔
@@RETROCENGO : Yes indeed, parts of the music were too quiet on my C64c 8580. I also recall music with samples would sometimes not work as well on it.
But If you could check out G’nG
The original is 6581 instead U can buy Amiga500
It's not that bad. It's AWFUL!