Ya if racer x was ran by homosexuals they'd make that video. The X models of bikes are the same except softer suspension valving on the X models. Other than that they're the same bike pretty much
Kiefer great review with these guys. I am in between both of these bikes. I’ve rode the Yamaha really liked it. I felt comfortable immediately, but it did feel a little stiff and rigid at times. I really would like to ride the 25 Honda before I make a purchase. I currently ride 2013 Honda, I’ve kept this bike for so long because has a ton of low torque and turns very well. But it’s time for something new.
Keefer, I've owned (19) CRF 450's and I have 3 rides on my 2025 CRF450R. The 25 is great, however...I agree with Eddie 100%, the stock suspension is VERY soft. I'm a 210 lb. Vet B rider. I installed stiffer fork and shock springs and it was much better, but still a little soft for riders of our size. I have a set of 2023 WE forks that have been set up by ENZO and they work awesome on the 23-24 CRF chassis. I'm going to try those this weekend to see how they feel. In order to get the best out of the chassis, the suspension definitely needs a revalve.
How's the power on the Honda 450? I've heard is super fast and hard to handle. Which scares me away because If it's that fast I would want to be able to de tune it and since it doesn't come with a tuner app I'd have to get an aftermarket ECU and I'd rather not spend that money. So what's your opinion on the 25s power?
Have you tried the forks and if so how did it work out? It's my understanding that the outer tubes of the 25' are thicker / stronger to go along with the stiffer chassis?
This video was SNATCHEEE my Brother 😂 Enjoyed this Kris. 60 Plus Vet Exp here and this is exactly what the boys and I do weekly.. Fantastic Moto Bench Info fellas 🔥🔥🔥✌️😉
@@michael589myeah because they spent $50M+ building the USA HQ in Temecula and offer 3 different brands but don’t sell 3x amount of bikes to justify it. Husqy is just a white KTM for short people and the GASGAS is supposed to be a budget red KTM but they still sell it at a premium, and obviously the KTM is taxed but the best offering but still lacks a spring fork out of the crate. I’ll pass unless I want a 350 since there are no other 350 options. I’m leaning towards a 2025 YZ250F or CRF250R. Probably will go Yamaha since they host ride days where you can actually test ride one on a mx track. Rode the 23 a couple years ago at one of those events and loved it. Looking forward to testing the new model. Currently on a 125.
@@maverick2242 you know its won I know for sure at least ONE moto overseas in mxgp series. It may have won more moto's than just the one buy I'm not sure.
Great video! You helped me make my decision.I’m a 55 year old 190lb rider. I was already leaning towards the Yamaha. The 3rd gear pull and KYB stability on rough national tracks over ride the radical power when your tired for me. Always liked the Japanese brands. Raced through 20’s and 30’s on CR 2strokes.Those bikes were anything but stable! Both 2025 Honda and Yamaha prettiest bikes of all time to me!
2 best bikes and both look amazing would love to own a 25 of either brand. In the market for a 450 but will probably have to go used with the pricing of bike's these days. Probably will have to sell my Harley Dyna to get one or just trade it for a 450 but im ready to get back on the dirt. 🏁🏁
You should be able to buy any bike that is 10 years old and newer and be happy. Bikes these days are good. The stuff the newer bikes have are just added stuff 90 percent of average riders don't need or feel.
@andrewvance965 yea I agree. I grew up on a yz125 from like 6th/7th grade to freshman year before that I learned on a little hilarious Yamaha TTR 125 and all my friends had kx85's and I used to beg my parents for one cause we grew up riding at motocross tracks and my friends down the road had a Supercross track in the backyard on 5 open acres and I had 5 acres in the woods and we had a nationals/trail track they were all awesome but it was hilarious I got so good when we would go to actual tracks my friends had the 2t kx85 or yz85s and I had the trail Yamaha ttr125 but I just became the better rider than my friends and every would look at me at the tracks like who is this retarded kid on a little ttr trail bike till I got out there beating all the people on 85 2 strokes lmao hitting the jumps and railing berms and all 😂 stock ttr too lmao. But then I finally got the ol 1999 Yamaha Yz125 which was fun bike but then my freshman year of high school like 2007 I got a 2006 Honda Crf250r 1st year of dual exhaust and my buddies got a 07 kawi Kx250f & a Yamaha Yz250f and I had my 06 Crf250r allllll through High School and it was an absolute phenomenal machine I had absolutely 0 problems with it and it got rode hard and put away wet I mean rode every day for years just would do basic oil changes and it ripped just fine always so that made me a big Honda guy then after high school got a 2003 Yamaha R6 loved it as much as an 18 year old on a crotch rocket would sold it 2 years later got a brand new 2013 Suzuki Gsxr 750 loved it even more it flew and handled awesome. Then Sold that was bike less for a few years no dirt bike or street bike and in 2017 bought a 2002 Honda crf450r first year Honda 450 and let me tell you at 52 or 51hp stock about 9 less than stock 450s today it had plentyyy of power way more than my 06 crf250r and newer 250f's. So I wouldn't mind getting any 450 from like year 2009-2020 in a Honda preferred if not then a yz450f and if not then a Rmz450 would love any of those from any of Said years. But I absolutely love my 9k mile 1999 twin cam Harley Davidson FXDWG Dyna it's been built by Horsepower Inc out of Indianapolis IN one of the best performance Harley Davidson builders literally in the world.... and at 114 wheel hp & 129 wheel Footlbs of torque and it absolutely rips and sounds like a monster and is 25 years old with classic plates with only 9k miles and has a few 1st show trophies 🏆 its an amazing bike and the nicest motorcycle I've ever owned for sure so I honestly would hate to sell or trade it. But kbb on it is 11k and going to rise bc Harley doesn't make dynas anymore.....but I just don't ride it much at all like i used too everyday. So I hate to let it sit and I don't want I'm needing another dirt bike preferably a 2010-2025 450 so I'll probably just get rid of the dyna and get either a newer 2019-25 450 or get a 2010-2013 450 and have enough leftover to get another used either 250f dirt bike or honestly I'm absolutely wanting a 2008-2014 CanAm DS450XMX moto quad like the Motoworks one John Natalie won the 2012 Ama nationals title on they look so sickkkk built and can find great deals on em or even a Suzuki Ltr450r quadracer and have an amazing build motocross dirt bike and atv to Shred on!!!! So it might be worth getting rid of my Harley for that idk probably will. Sorry for the novel I wrote lol 🏁🏁🏁
@@andrewvance965 have to disagree there mate, I'm racing on a 10yr old bike now and after riding a new yz, crf and ktm over the last month my lap times were all significantly faster on the new bikes and I was less tired on them. 100% getting a new bike once this season has finished
@@andrewvance965 Nonsense , the stuff newer bikes offer are worth every dime. The only people who say buy an old bike are the people who don't have enough $$ to buy a new one . Keep saving NEVER settle .
Glad you hammered them on the thin seats today. It also prevents us guys under 5'9" (average height), from lowering the seat height a bit. I am glad I got the older 2019 YZ250 2-stroke, (took 1" off the seat, and .75" off the suspension), or I would be sitting on the frame rails too.
I'm 5'9" also, that 38" seat height is why I'm looking at new bikes with electric start 😄 You can always lower the subframe a little like JGR did with the Yamahas.
@18:53 He talks about coming off the Yamaha to Honda and how the front wheel feels tucked in. I noticed the same thing when I hopped off my 03' RM125 and hopped on my 96' CR125. I feel like the Rake/Trail/Fork angle on Hondas has always been this way. More trail equals better stability, less trail gets you a more nervous motorcycle.
@@dyland9211 For whatever reason it takes me a bit to get used to the front end on the Honda but once im there its awesome. But the Rm feels amazing out the gate.
Very interesting talk about the Yamaha's front end and how it feels like the wheel is out front more compared to the Honda but when you ride it it's a complete non factor .
@lorenzoromagosa3828 I believe the 2019 honda crf450r was also one of the most powerful 450s stock to date. But usually Yamaha and kawi and ktm do have the most power. But it's funny when they say they want more power and the bike doesn't have enough then the next year say the brand adds more power to the engine then they say ah man I think the powers just a tad to much for me it could be toned down some the they do that the next year then ohh man it just doesn't have enough engine for me lmao they don't know what they want. Sound like a Suzuki would be perfect 😂
@@dyland9211 True. I think that is where the map switch comes in. Ride on an aggressive map when you are fresh and tone down the power a bit when fatigue sets in. Does the Yami come with a map switch?
@brianbush3247 yea the Yamaha has map switches too. They updated the case around the map switches buttons to stick out around the button further than the button itself does so you don't chest bump it and change maps on accident or same with the off switch
I’m torn. I really would have to ride both based on the feedback here. I feel the 450 Yamaha’s Kryptonite is cornering. They said the 23+ models are improved, but I have my doubts. I have a fat shrouded 22 so it very well could be! They did mention the cornering wasn’t that good which leads me to going Honda between these two bikes. I’m sure both are super nice!
I’d be curious for a Honda vs Kawasaki in this same format. The Yamaha intake is a major hold up for me. Never owned but having witnessed the sand inside the intake situation first hand multiple times it is a deal breaker. Which sucks because the kyb is the best out of the box.
hey ive owned three of them , its not a problem, i dont cleam the filter oil off around the filter mounting area at all , it keeps everything in check. You can control it , as for the new slide sideways on some bikes i bet thats risky but without the gravity of the yamaha set up .
Filter grease bro... Not a spec of dirt or sand gets past the filter. I put 100 hours on my yz450f last year and the piston and cylinder look and measure almost new Plus the Yamaha is a powerhouse that loves to be rode hard
@@bennynedergard-os3itI’ve seen it all done and still suck sand. Also hearing people have resorted to vacuuming out the throttle body every time they change an air filter isn’t promising. Glad you’ve had better luck with it though. I’d rather take bolts out of a number plate and seat then take extra steps to try and keep the throttle body from ingesting dirt and sand.
@@TylerRodger its the design not the access , 1. When you train on your own even in the dusty of conditions the air filter stays clean as new for the next ride where it is located. 2. But the most important part of the design is the straight inlet tract performance , why the 250 has been the leader across the world for performance and actual innovation since 2014 , there power and tourque was unmatched until recently. Honda have taken on the now widely know benifits of that Yamaha design , they have almost mastered it with traditional filter location behind the plate. Not sure on there casset filter design yet though ,450 well wow needs more power haha but tourque is king . So yeah innovative since 2014 , as for 450 Star racing will sort it to Factory level. Eli going ok on it . Heaps of non Factory guys killing it on the 450, have been for years of models now, Stew Baylor showed how great the bike is before the big wallet ktm had to sign him again before results showed yearly.
I wish you could talk about the electronics like the purpose of the temp sensor and if it has the over temp shut off feature that the yz apparently has
You can't expect the factory to put in stiff enough suspension springs for a 230 lb guy. If you are too lazy to spring the bike well for the weight, you are too lazy to give a good assessment of the bike. Now this guy (12 min area) may find some stock springs are better for him,---because he is pretty slow. All you have to do is spring it for your weight, adjust the clickers a bit, (like all of us heavy guys do, or the ride stinks.), and them you can start giving accurate assessments. Kind of what MXA used to do a rider generation and earlier ago. It is called 'bike set up", and is not something the factories can do for everybody. Do we still know who to do that? It is not fair to the manufacture if we don't. In fact, it is destructive.
You don't even mention if you set the rear sag for each rider. 20 lbs makes a very big difference in handling. But if you set the rear sag for a heavy rider, and the bike has soft fork springs. Don't blame the manufacture because the bike handles scary terribly.
I think they look awesome but the best thing about it is it's the best bike , it also comes with the best engine and best suspension and don't forget it also has the best electronics and adjustability and it's FREE to use, no extra charge . No brainer pick
I'd like to know what those of us who own the previous Hondas can do to get more comfort from their crf knowing what we now know about the 25 Honda and the direction the factory and teams have gone.
I have a 24 Crf450x I retorqued damn near every bolt 10% less added a stablizer and ahm suspension. Had to play with sag a lot and it’s great . And also I’m a desert rat
Can they make a say...time released map? Starts out full power, but gradually smooths out during the moto🤔 has anyone thought of this? Would be like an air cooled 500😂
I'd rather stiffen up a soft bike than soften up a stiff one, because if its a chassis issue theres nothing you can do. These painted on seats annoy me too lol.
- 1st, all those riders should be on 250's :) - 2nd these shootouts are basically worthless, nobody buys these bikes and rides them as is for very long - A better test would be to take both bikes, set a reasonable budget and set each bike up as agreed upon by top club racers as they would race them, have a day of setup, then test those - My bet is any of the new bikes can turn the same lap time when set up for the rider and their ability. - Pick what bike you like best based on the color and what gear you want to wear. Keep it simple.
The wife analogy is about as perfect an explanation as you can have. To me that’s the 350 vs 450 argument. Tired me wants the 350. Fresh me is instantly pissed on the 350.
We really should not talk about ergonomics, (how a body fits the machine), when we have tall bikes and a freestyle handlebar set up. Just looking ant the angle of the grips, (ends pointing up), does not fit the natural positions of your hands, (grip ends pointing down a bit). It is the first time I heard the word in a while though. we just forgot what it means. :)
I'm interested in the long term reliability. Let's see how these bike hold up as the hours increase. I've had weird problems with transmissions and rods on my yamahas
Better statistically. Do 5 laps for the best lap times, throw out the slowest 2 laps, and average out the last 3. It helps eliminate human error. If you want to test things, take a college stats class or two, if you know algebra. Hard to figure out reality with out it.
We need to stop complaining/ even talking about tracks conditions to promote non complainers in future generations who fill up their mind with negative about the nature of tracks conditions while use after use. Track will be easy and tough or whatever... it's the sport, nature of it!
Watching as I type this so not sure it's been mentioned but, what is the opinion on ease/difficulty of service on the Yamaha with it's rearward canted cylinder and exhaust header that snakes around.
Thank you very much... Do you think the Honda SE will be a much better bike? I weigh 245 so the fact that it is soft wont matter for me as it would be the first thing I change.
If u were getting a bike I used to ride a lot when I was younger. I’m 6’2 247lbs I will lose weight soon. should I get a Honda or Yamaha? I used to have yfz 450 atv. Pretty much going to be a starting fresh since I have rode since I was younger. What would u get? I just want to mess around maybe hit a track more just playing around thanks.
I’m a 14 year old switching to a 250 four stroke and I am in the middle between Honda and Yamaha. If anyone could help me out it would be much appreciated
Other two riders said going Into corners it was smooth even in 3rd gear was like floating over everything and Honda the handle bars jerked around guess the person who liked the Honda likes to be jerked around
33:34 If Mr. Keefer thinks any track they ride on today is "Gnarley/Chitty track", he was not racing in the 80's when we were the best ion the world. Truth. 12" of suspension travel existed before the big jumps. That is why you think older 2-stroke bikes are soft. They were set up for the bumps, that if we see today (especially at the increased speeds of the faster 4-stroke), that will kick your wheels over a rut and into another. They are set up more for the big jumps today, and bump action suffers. So----the tracks are a lot less "Gnarly/Chity" today, and more like road race courses. Speeds are scary fast though. So the tracks are groomed often.
Same bikes every year it’s not like bikes are going 10 more mph I just hate that these bike are going thru the roof and it’s all the same stuff lol but don’t be mad at me for speaking my mind
@@Keeferinctesting it could be because woods racing is so popular around Indiana and the dealerships only get 3-6 450’s a year they don’t wanna sell em too fast. In Kentucky they are still 10,900$ after taxes and fees. I guess dirtbikes have become a hot commodity
Good lord testers.. if the Yamaha is too much when getting tired or just in areas go up a gear and it still pulls less wheel spin.. the Yamaha is very planted imo and turning the 450 feels like you are on a 250f.. that’s what I felt
@@mxr248 Just FYI. Going up a gear (third gear) doesn’t make it that much easier to ride. Sure the chassis works better but it’s still A LOT of engine. Also, different feeling from different riders. Not one rider is the end all be all of testing. Hence the reason why there are more than one rider. You yourself felt something different and that doesn’t make you wrong, but just different. Hope our tests help you a “little”.
@@Keeferinctesting ya I would watch GP guys on the Yamaha the top guys would lug 3rd around corners. So I started trying it on mine and thought it helped me a lot cause I like twisting the darn thing cause I love that power but sometimes on certain surfaces you got to watch the rear. I haven’t rode the new Honda yet but last years motor was just lacking and the bikes front end wasn’t consistent for me or the guy that owned it. He went down a lot..
@@mxr248 you should watch some more of these videos because clearly you don’t understand. Say say watch GP riders they lug 3rd gear lol did you not watch the vids? He always talks about behind lazy and behind able to lug 3rd… what they are referring to about it being to much when you’re tired is how the motor pulls and hits.. the motor in a low gear or higher gear wants to pull period just ride put it around in the pits it’s so snappy. Where if you ride other 450s the bike doesn’t feel like it wants to be ripped out of your hands and this is fixed through tuning and mapping
@@Kuhliifa apparently you never raced a yz450 I have. 3rd pulls very easy and the GP guy are not lazy it stops the wheel spin more and it has better traction and control! As they exit then they twist hard or hit the clutch quick. I watched on GP guys go pro and you can clearly hear it. Yes you can tune it but it still has that power if you get excited and twist too much hence the 3rd gear thing. Sorry but they are pros and it clearly make a difference. Reving them high up you get less traction even in hole shots. You shift early and keep it in the mid range it pulls way faster cause the of less wheel spin..
Ok hear me out… same video but with the X models
Ya if racer x was ran by homosexuals they'd make that video. The X models of bikes are the same except softer suspension valving on the X models. Other than that they're the same bike pretty much
That same but with 18" rear wheels. The FX does have the wr trans.
Pass
Maybe for the trails or desert not this
Here on east coast the X models cover most of the tracks...other than the sx track🤘🛵
i haven't heard such honesty in testing in decades, fantastic guys.
Kiefer great review with these guys. I am in between both of these bikes. I’ve rode the Yamaha really liked it. I felt comfortable immediately, but it did feel a little stiff and rigid at times. I really would like to ride the 25 Honda before I make a purchase. I currently ride 2013 Honda, I’ve kept this bike for so long because has a ton of low torque and turns very well. But it’s time for something new.
Keefer, I've owned (19) CRF 450's and I have 3 rides on my 2025 CRF450R. The 25 is great, however...I agree with Eddie 100%, the stock suspension is VERY soft. I'm a 210 lb. Vet B rider. I installed stiffer fork and shock springs and it was much better, but still a little soft for riders of our size. I have a set of 2023 WE forks that have been set up by ENZO and they work awesome on the 23-24 CRF chassis. I'm going to try those this weekend to see how they feel. In order to get the best out of the chassis, the suspension definitely needs a revalve.
@@RedRider820 Nice! New Honda is a lot better!!
How's the power on the Honda 450? I've heard is super fast and hard to handle. Which scares me away because If it's that fast I would want to be able to de tune it and since it doesn't come with a tuner app I'd have to get an aftermarket ECU and I'd rather not spend that money. So what's your opinion on the 25s power?
Have you tried the forks and if so how did it work out? It's my understanding that the outer tubes of the 25' are thicker / stronger to go along with the stiffer chassis?
This video was SNATCHEEE my Brother 😂 Enjoyed this Kris. 60 Plus Vet Exp here and this is exactly what the boys and I do weekly.. Fantastic Moto Bench Info fellas 🔥🔥🔥✌️😉
Well done boy's! Both bikes are nice but if I had to race one without any mods it would be the Yammie all day any day.
The look of the Honda has grown on me.. at first I wasn’t sure about rad shrouds but I’m actually liking it now.
Best looking bike imo then the Yamaha then suzuki
They said the same thing about the Yamaha front fender
Looks like an old cagiva
Same. They were hideous at first.
Thank you keefer for the effort you put into this stuff. Much appreciated!, Greetings from bavaria, germany!
450 Shootout this year going to be sweet... Any Idea when Triumph will be ready with theirs? Nice vid man
This is a great video because of the individual interviews
The price is going to kill the future of this sport. 2-3 years sales will drop way off. Sad its going that direction.
PIERER Mobility AG financial statements says it all!
Honda has hydro clutch
Cost of everything is going up because of the constant printing of money. It's not the manufacturers fault.
@jeffsutherland141 It doesnt matter whose fault it is. It just a fact of reality. Thats all.
@@michael589myeah because they spent $50M+ building the USA HQ in Temecula and offer 3 different brands but don’t sell 3x amount of bikes to justify it. Husqy is just a white KTM for short people and the GASGAS is supposed to be a budget red KTM but they still sell it at a premium, and obviously the KTM is taxed but the best offering but still lacks a spring fork out of the crate. I’ll pass unless I want a 350 since there are no other 350 options. I’m leaning towards a 2025 YZ250F or CRF250R. Probably will go Yamaha since they host ride days where you can actually test ride one on a mx track. Rode the 23 a couple years ago at one of those events and loved it. Looking forward to testing the new model. Currently on a 125.
Loved this format. Jake’s input was super relatable.
Great video, thanks Keefer
Love the content cheers Keefer
Great comparison Keefer! Been wanting to sale my KTM and go Yamaha...Now my battle is great deal on 24 or spend on 25. Thanks
Really can't wait for Ducati to mix in.
@@dennismillus4581 Same
Yea it's looking great.
Gonna take sometime for it to be good though, too much over hype anticipation! even for them its going to be tough to get it right at this level.
@@maverick2242 you know its won I know for sure at least ONE moto overseas in mxgp series. It may have won more moto's than just the one buy I'm not sure.
Im not sure we’re going to like the Ducati pricing 😅
Great test and very happy we got the Kawasaki included
Yamaha with KYB I think is the go
Buy a suzuki get the sus set up .
You don't need all that excess stuff
Didn't mean kyb ain't where it's at I'm just saying save the money
@@kylereece575gross
@@kylereece575 The Suzuki LOL
@@kylereece575 or get the Kawi for less on rebate
I would like to see something with all 250s and vet riders. I ride C class on a 250 and it’s perfect
Great video!
You helped me make my decision.I’m a 55 year old 190lb rider. I was already leaning towards the Yamaha.
The 3rd gear pull and KYB stability on rough national tracks over ride the radical power when your tired for me.
Always liked the Japanese brands. Raced through 20’s and 30’s on CR 2strokes.Those bikes were anything but stable!
Both 2025 Honda and Yamaha prettiest bikes of all time to me!
@@stevewatkins4424 Awesome. Enjoy!!
Best riding reviews in the world!!! Cheers Keef and friends!
Sounds like the advice is buy a yz250f
2 best bikes and both look amazing would love to own a 25 of either brand. In the market for a 450 but will probably have to go used with the pricing of bike's these days. Probably will have to sell my Harley Dyna to get one or just trade it for a 450 but im ready to get back on the dirt. 🏁🏁
You should be able to buy any bike that is 10 years old and newer and be happy. Bikes these days are good. The stuff the newer bikes have are just added stuff 90 percent of average riders don't need or feel.
@andrewvance965 yea I agree. I grew up on a yz125 from like 6th/7th grade to freshman year before that I learned on a little hilarious Yamaha TTR 125 and all my friends had kx85's and I used to beg my parents for one cause we grew up riding at motocross tracks and my friends down the road had a Supercross track in the backyard on 5 open acres and I had 5 acres in the woods and we had a nationals/trail track they were all awesome but it was hilarious I got so good when we would go to actual tracks my friends had the 2t kx85 or yz85s and I had the trail Yamaha ttr125 but I just became the better rider than my friends and every would look at me at the tracks like who is this retarded kid on a little ttr trail bike till I got out there beating all the people on 85 2 strokes lmao hitting the jumps and railing berms and all 😂 stock ttr too lmao. But then I finally got the ol 1999 Yamaha Yz125 which was fun bike but then my freshman year of high school like 2007 I got a 2006 Honda Crf250r 1st year of dual exhaust and my buddies got a 07 kawi Kx250f & a Yamaha Yz250f and I had my 06 Crf250r allllll through High School and it was an absolute phenomenal machine I had absolutely 0 problems with it and it got rode hard and put away wet I mean rode every day for years just would do basic oil changes and it ripped just fine always so that made me a big Honda guy then after high school got a 2003 Yamaha R6 loved it as much as an 18 year old on a crotch rocket would sold it 2 years later got a brand new 2013 Suzuki Gsxr 750 loved it even more it flew and handled awesome. Then Sold that was bike less for a few years no dirt bike or street bike and in 2017 bought a 2002 Honda crf450r first year Honda 450 and let me tell you at 52 or 51hp stock about 9 less than stock 450s today it had plentyyy of power way more than my 06 crf250r and newer 250f's. So I wouldn't mind getting any 450 from like year 2009-2020 in a Honda preferred if not then a yz450f and if not then a Rmz450 would love any of those from any of Said years. But I absolutely love my 9k mile 1999 twin cam Harley Davidson FXDWG Dyna it's been built by Horsepower Inc out of Indianapolis IN one of the best performance Harley Davidson builders literally in the world.... and at 114 wheel hp & 129 wheel Footlbs of torque and it absolutely rips and sounds like a monster and is 25 years old with classic plates with only 9k miles and has a few 1st show trophies 🏆 its an amazing bike and the nicest motorcycle I've ever owned for sure so I honestly would hate to sell or trade it. But kbb on it is 11k and going to rise bc Harley doesn't make dynas anymore.....but I just don't ride it much at all like i used too everyday. So I hate to let it sit and I don't want I'm needing another dirt bike preferably a 2010-2025 450 so I'll probably just get rid of the dyna and get either a newer 2019-25 450 or get a 2010-2013 450 and have enough leftover to get another used either 250f dirt bike or honestly I'm absolutely wanting a 2008-2014 CanAm DS450XMX moto quad like the Motoworks one John Natalie won the 2012 Ama nationals title on they look so sickkkk built and can find great deals on em or even a Suzuki Ltr450r quadracer and have an amazing build motocross dirt bike and atv to Shred on!!!! So it might be worth getting rid of my Harley for that idk probably will. Sorry for the novel I wrote lol 🏁🏁🏁
@@andrewvance965 have to disagree there mate, I'm racing on a 10yr old bike now and after riding a new yz, crf and ktm over the last month my lap times were all significantly faster on the new bikes and I was less tired on them. 100% getting a new bike once this season has finished
@@andrewvance965 Nonsense , the stuff newer bikes offer are worth every dime. The only people who say buy an old bike are the people who don't have enough $$ to buy a new one . Keep saving NEVER settle .
@@herbcanter2114 a new four stroke has zero charme, i have lot more fun und lookings from other guys when i push hard my rm125 and rm 250
great job Keefer! thank you.
Glad you hammered them on the thin seats today. It also prevents us guys under 5'9" (average height), from lowering the seat height a bit. I am glad I got the older 2019 YZ250 2-stroke, (took 1" off the seat, and .75" off the suspension), or I would be sitting on the frame rails too.
I'm 5'9" also, that 38" seat height is why I'm looking at new bikes with electric start 😄 You can always lower the subframe a little like JGR did with the Yamahas.
Thanks Keefer. Great mix of riders!!!
@18:53 He talks about coming off the Yamaha to Honda and how the front wheel feels tucked in. I noticed the same thing when I hopped off my 03' RM125 and hopped on my 96' CR125. I feel like the Rake/Trail/Fork angle on Hondas has always been this way. More trail equals better stability, less trail gets you a more nervous motorcycle.
@@Steezy_Mx but less trail supposedly turns better. More trail is better stability wise on straights usually
@@dyland9211 For whatever reason it takes me a bit to get used to the front end on the Honda but once im there its awesome. But the Rm feels amazing out the gate.
Great content! Thanks!
Great content!
Great work boys
Im gonna try to make er down to SoCal this winter!
Very interesting talk about the Yamaha's front end and how it feels like the wheel is out front more compared to the Honda but when you ride it it's a complete non factor .
WOW great job CK... thank you
Same thing the 250s please!
Would love to know your choice between 2025 yz250f and crf250rwe. I’m sure a lot of people would. 😂
so Jake is a Kawi guy but would like more engine on the Honda ? Wonder how these two compare to the KX450. Great content Chris as usual
@@lorenzoromagosa3828 The new 25 kawi has the least power in the class now besides the rmz450. Honda has more than kawi this year.
@lorenzoromagosa3828 I believe the 2019 honda crf450r was also one of the most powerful 450s stock to date. But usually Yamaha and kawi and ktm do have the most power. But it's funny when they say they want more power and the bike doesn't have enough then the next year say the brand adds more power to the engine then they say ah man I think the powers just a tad to much for me it could be toned down some the they do that the next year then ohh man it just doesn't have enough engine for me lmao they don't know what they want. Sound like a Suzuki would be perfect 😂
@@dyland9211 True. I think that is where the map switch comes in. Ride on an aggressive map when you are fresh and tone down the power a bit when fatigue sets in. Does the Yami come with a map switch?
@brianbush3247 yea the Yamaha has map switches too. They updated the case around the map switches buttons to stick out around the button further than the button itself does so you don't chest bump it and change maps on accident or same with the off switch
@@dyland9211 10-4. Thanks for clarifying.
I am a yamaha fan, but wow th Honda are beautiful.
Beautiful video!
I’m torn. I really would have to ride both based on the feedback here. I feel the 450 Yamaha’s Kryptonite is cornering. They said the 23+ models are improved, but I have my doubts. I have a fat shrouded 22 so it very well could be! They did mention the cornering wasn’t that good which leads me to going Honda between these two bikes.
I’m sure both are super nice!
Appreciate the video, kinda bummed the Honda isn't as competitive out of the box. I've never loved Honda forks either
Depends on your weight
I bought the Honda, fit and feel is the best
It is easy to tune suspension but nearly impossible change ergo-rider triangle. I think that's the first thing to think about.
@@aivorebane3050 Not wrong. But sometimes it’s still tough to get a suspension setting if you’re chasing frame feel. 🤞🏻
I’d be curious for a Honda vs Kawasaki in this same format. The Yamaha intake is a major hold up for me. Never owned but having witnessed the sand inside the intake situation first hand multiple times it is a deal breaker. Which sucks because the kyb is the best out of the box.
hey ive owned three of them , its not a problem, i dont cleam the filter oil off around the filter mounting area at all , it keeps everything in check. You can control it , as for the new slide sideways on some bikes i bet thats risky but without the gravity of the yamaha set up .
Filter grease bro... Not a spec of dirt or sand gets past the filter. I put 100 hours on my yz450f last year and the piston and cylinder look and measure almost new Plus the Yamaha is a powerhouse that loves to be rode hard
@@bennynedergard-os3itI’ve seen it all done and still suck sand. Also hearing people have resorted to vacuuming out the throttle body every time they change an air filter isn’t promising. Glad you’ve had better luck with it though. I’d rather take bolts out of a number plate and seat then take extra steps to try and keep the throttle body from ingesting dirt and sand.
@@TylerRodger its the design not the access , 1. When you train on your own even in the dusty of conditions the air filter stays clean as new for the next ride where it is located. 2. But the most important part of the design is the straight inlet tract performance , why the 250 has been the leader across the world for performance and actual innovation since 2014 , there power and tourque was unmatched until recently. Honda have taken on the now widely know benifits of that Yamaha design , they have almost mastered it with traditional filter location behind the plate. Not sure on there casset filter design yet though ,450 well wow needs more power haha but tourque is king . So yeah innovative since 2014 , as for 450 Star racing will sort it to Factory level. Eli going ok on it . Heaps of non Factory guys killing it on the 450, have been for years of models now, Stew Baylor showed how great the bike is before the big wallet ktm had to sign him again before results showed yearly.
I wish you could talk about the electronics like the purpose of the temp sensor and if it has the over temp shut off feature that the yz apparently has
You can't expect the factory to put in stiff enough suspension springs for a 230 lb guy. If you are too lazy to spring the bike well for the weight, you are too lazy to give a good assessment of the bike. Now this guy (12 min area) may find some stock springs are better for him,---because he is pretty slow. All you have to do is spring it for your weight, adjust the clickers a bit, (like all of us heavy guys do, or the ride stinks.), and them you can start giving accurate assessments. Kind of what MXA used to do a rider generation and earlier ago. It is called 'bike set up", and is not something the factories can do for everybody. Do we still know who to do that? It is not fair to the manufacture if we don't. In fact, it is destructive.
You don't even mention if you set the rear sag for each rider. 20 lbs makes a very big difference in handling. But if you set the rear sag for a heavy rider, and the bike has soft fork springs. Don't blame the manufacture because the bike handles scary terribly.
I have hated the looks of Yamaha 4 strokes ever since they went backwards
I think they look awesome but the best thing about it is it's the best bike , it also comes with the best engine and best suspension and don't forget it also has the best electronics and adjustability and it's FREE to use, no extra charge . No brainer pick
Ya, but they are stupid fun to ride!
Just picked up my 25 CRF450R today!
Very interested to see how it feels compared to my 2024!
@@DEVFORCE151 Have fun. Better Honda for sure!!
What do you think of your Honda?
I wish Yamaha would go back to black rims. Other than that the bike looks beautiful.
I like the blue, can't believe that the purple ones looked good. Didn't like the purple seat or white.
I wish they would put the hydraulic. Clutch on there so I don’t
I'd like to know what those of us who own the previous Hondas can do to get more comfort from their crf knowing what we now know about the 25 Honda and the direction the factory and teams have gone.
I have a 24 Crf450x I retorqued damn near every bolt 10% less added a stablizer and ahm suspension. Had to play with sag a lot and it’s great . And also I’m a desert rat
......so Yamaha's front fender is smaller which equals less drag which means a faster bike
Do this with the 250F’s same brands.
Good stuff, Kris! Thanks for doing this. Are you planning on doing the same for other brands? Thanks, Ali
@@alincdhr Thanks. We may. Depends what you guys want to see. These two bikes are popular.
Can they make a say...time released map? Starts out full power, but gradually smooths out during the moto🤔 has anyone thought of this? Would be like an air cooled 500😂
So far, that is not available. It is up to the rider to change maps.
Wouldn't hitting the button to jump down maps do the same thing?
@@Zulululu4x It would but I think he is thinking of something more gradual. It is an interesting idea..
@@brianbush3247 you could even map it for different sections of the track
Pretty wild how Cole Seeley and Jake Weimer raved over the Honda! Fucking wild!
Why does Honda only have one exhaust? 😮😮
Ha I wondered with a name like that. Jeff was my idol back in my day. I even had his training vhs tape.
I'd rather stiffen up a soft bike than soften up a stiff one, because if its a chassis issue theres nothing you can do. These painted on seats annoy me too lol.
- 1st, all those riders should be on 250's :)
- 2nd these shootouts are basically worthless, nobody buys these bikes and rides them as is for very long
- A better test would be to take both bikes, set a reasonable budget and set each bike up as agreed upon by top club racers as they would race them, have a day of setup, then test those
- My bet is any of the new bikes can turn the same lap time when set up for the rider and their ability.
- Pick what bike you like best based on the color and what gear you want to wear. Keep it simple.
The wife analogy is about as perfect an explanation as you can have. To me that’s the 350 vs 450 argument. Tired me wants the 350. Fresh me is instantly pissed on the 350.
@@MOS09W1 Finally! Someone appreciates my work! 😂
We really should not talk about ergonomics, (how a body fits the machine), when we have tall bikes and a freestyle handlebar set up. Just looking ant the angle of the grips, (ends pointing up), does not fit the natural positions of your hands, (grip ends pointing down a bit). It is the first time I heard the word in a while though. we just forgot what it means. :)
At the intro I like how Yamaha hid the header ...as honda is still able to bang up catch a rock
I'm interested in the long term reliability. Let's see how these bike hold up as the hours increase. I've had weird problems with transmissions and rods on my yamahas
Better statistically. Do 5 laps for the best lap times, throw out the slowest 2 laps, and average out the last 3. It helps eliminate human error.
If you want to test things, take a college stats class or two, if you know algebra. Hard to figure out reality with out it.
take a college stats class or two (in statistics), if you know algebra.
What’s up with the police sirens and loud hot rod dragster sounds?
We need to stop complaining/ even talking about tracks conditions to promote non complainers in future generations who fill up their mind with negative about the nature of tracks conditions while use after use. Track will be easy and tough or whatever... it's the sport, nature of it!
Thanks keefer
So no one commented on the cops chasing monster trucks in the background??
Keef, What where your lap times??
Ha! I was wondering if he was related to "Chicken". Cool stuff.
How many racers/riders in the world,---only ride Glen Helen? Can't test on any other tracks anymore?
@@EarthSurferUSA If you watched the video it says we are going back east. Hope this helps.
What we're Kris's lap times on each bike?
Watching as I type this so not sure it's been mentioned but, what is the opinion on ease/difficulty of service on the Yamaha with
it's rearward canted cylinder and exhaust header that snakes around.
What are the “subframe mount” details ? I know a guy Deep, Deep in Chase Camp
I can’t wait for a “de-style” kit that makes the new Honda look like the old one. Haha
Yes, over 50 here and don’t want to buy a new bike that looks like a vintage ‘89
Keefer looks cooked. Too much sun. Please look after yourself better Kris.
Nice that he choose red gear to match his skin colour!
Thank you very much... Do you think the Honda SE will be a much better bike? I weigh 245 so the fact that it is soft wont matter for me as it would be the first thing I change.
@@davidciesielski8251 WE should be a bit different yes but most likely will still be on the soft side.
If u were getting a bike I used to ride a lot when I was younger. I’m 6’2 247lbs I will lose weight soon. should I get a Honda or Yamaha? I used to have yfz 450 atv.
Pretty much going to be a starting fresh since I have rode since I was younger.
What would u get? I just want to mess around maybe hit a track more just playing around thanks.
I’m a 14 year old switching to a 250 four stroke and I am in the middle between Honda and Yamaha. If anyone could help me out it would be much appreciated
What would you recommend on bike set up to change the problem that Jesse is talking about with the yamaha? With the turning.
Other two riders said going Into corners it was smooth even in 3rd gear was like floating over everything and Honda the handle bars jerked around guess the person who liked the Honda likes to be jerked around
So, showing the riding in slow motion, makes slow guys look fast? Is that "deception", or are you just being artistic?
33:34 If Mr. Keefer thinks any track they ride on today is "Gnarley/Chitty track", he was not racing in the 80's when we were the best ion the world.
Truth. 12" of suspension travel existed before the big jumps. That is why you think older 2-stroke bikes are soft. They were set up for the bumps, that if we see today (especially at the increased speeds of the faster 4-stroke), that will kick your wheels over a rut and into another. They are set up more for the big jumps today, and bump action suffers.
So----the tracks are a lot less "Gnarly/Chity" today, and more like road race courses. Speeds are scary fast though. So the tracks are groomed often.
24 kx450 is the best bike I've owned..
😂
What lap times has Keefer with the bikes? Yamaha 2:08??
What were Keefer's times? Did I miss it?
Why was the Suzuki left out..gotta add in the RM
LOL
If the seat is that big of an issue that you chose the Yamaha I’m hearing Honda better just change seat to seat concepts.
@@jdavishornet Obviously that’s not the only thing.
Your all thinking Damn this Honda would be so much better if it was a CR500AF....
This video seems a bit too red and blue for me
When mixed together, red and blue make purple, so what it's saying is get the 50th edition Yamaha 😂
Do a yz250 2 stroke vs ktm husky or gas gas 250 2 stroke
I would not buy a bike unless it had high performance engine mounts on it. Jeeech.
Yamaha. Took me one second. Haha.
Is "Little Chicken" Jeff's Son?
Same bikes every year it’s not like bikes are going 10 more mph I just hate that these bike are going thru the roof and it’s all the same stuff lol but don’t be mad at me for speaking my mind
@@KD-Lonely_vibez No hate comms.
I just went to my dealership (Indiana) they wanted 11,300 after taxes and fees for both Honda and Yami 😂 when tf did dirtbikes cost 11,000$ 😂
@@Scythe_Voltage Wow! 🤨
@@Keeferinctesting it could be because woods racing is so popular around Indiana and the dealerships only get 3-6 450’s a year they don’t wanna sell em too fast. In Kentucky they are still 10,900$ after taxes and fees. I guess dirtbikes have become a hot commodity
Good lord testers.. if the Yamaha is too much when getting tired or just in areas go up a gear and it still pulls less wheel spin.. the Yamaha is very planted imo and turning the 450 feels like you are on a 250f.. that’s what I felt
@@mxr248 Just FYI. Going up a gear (third gear) doesn’t make it that much easier to ride. Sure the chassis works better but it’s still A LOT of engine. Also, different feeling from different riders. Not one rider is the end all be all of testing. Hence the reason why there are more than one rider. You yourself felt something different and that doesn’t make you wrong, but just different. Hope our tests help you a “little”.
@@Keeferinctesting ya I would watch GP guys on the Yamaha the top guys would lug 3rd around corners. So I started trying it on mine and thought it helped me a lot cause I like twisting the darn thing cause I love that power but sometimes on certain surfaces you got to watch the rear. I haven’t rode the new Honda yet but last years motor was just lacking and the bikes front end wasn’t consistent for me or the guy that owned it. He went down a lot..
@@mxr248 you should watch some more of these videos because clearly you don’t understand. Say say watch GP riders they lug 3rd gear lol did you not watch the vids? He always talks about behind lazy and behind able to lug 3rd… what they are referring to about it being to much when you’re tired is how the motor pulls and hits.. the motor in a low gear or higher gear wants to pull period just ride put it around in the pits it’s so snappy. Where if you ride other 450s the bike doesn’t feel like it wants to be ripped out of your hands and this is fixed through tuning and mapping
@@Kuhliifa apparently you never raced a yz450 I have. 3rd pulls very easy and the GP guy are not lazy it stops the wheel spin more and it has better traction and control! As they exit then they twist hard or hit the clutch quick. I watched on GP guys go pro and you can clearly hear it. Yes you can tune it but it still has that power if you get excited and twist too much hence the 3rd gear thing. Sorry but they are pros and it clearly make a difference. Reving them high up you get less traction even in hole shots. You shift early and keep it in the mid range it pulls way faster cause the of less wheel spin..
Wich one has more bottom
Shut I'm lucky I'm still riding and have a bike they want to do away with anything we love. YAMAHA FOR LIFE.
Police were after you on that fast Yamaha 😂
Looking for the review on the Bananna
@@jamieargent7139 They haven’t gave me one yet.
@@Keeferinctesting We will keep hoping keep up the great eork
Eddie looks like a normal sized dude riding a super mini... the guy is huuuge