How these Race Cars Rapidly Changed - The Insanity of the Dirt Late Model
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- Today we dive into the dramatic changes that dirt late models experienced during the early 1980s when rules were too relaxed and competitors' imaginations ran wild.
00:00 - Intro
00:20 - The Early Days
01:52 - The Spoiler Arrives
02:49 - The Sideboard Arrives
03:26 - Aluminum Bodies
04:22 - Commentators Fascinated by Dirt Late Models
05:10 - Off the deep end
06:42 - 2000 to Present
08:24 - What if
09:08 - Outro
Sources:
ndlmhof.wordpress.com/history/
www.autoevolution.com/news/th...
www.floracing.com/articles/50...
joeverdegan.com/from-the-5-10...
insidedirtracing.com/the-chan... 
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The late models now are insane.. make more downforce than winged sprints... its just crazy... Making so much traction, turning the whole rear end for rear steer is the way to turn. Just wild stuff.
Awesome video. Grew up in the 80s and 90s watching my uncle and his friends build 67 Chevelle late model cars then switching to the aluminum bodies and the “Fantastic Plastic” or “Plastic Fantastic” depending on where u were from cars. I don’t know if anybody on here has heard that term I’m sure someone has. To the wedge cars we know and love today. My local dirt track has been slowly bringing back Late Model races for pretty big payouts which is awesome.
I’ve always thought the term “late model” has always been applied very liberally to these cars. There is nothing late model about them. They are pure high tech racing machines.
As much as I admire the technology and innovation, I believe these cars have killed dirt racing on the local level.
The purses local tracks are paying are the same as they were 30 years ago while the costs to race have increased tenfold. Car count for a weekly show is 10-12 on a good week.
The average guy that used to go to the local track on Saturday night wanted to watch Chevys and Fords sling it out and buy a few hot dogs, drinks, burgers, and maybe a t-shirt. He wanted to watch them sliding through the turns side by side with the engines moaning. Now he sees 2-3 classes of “late models” that are identical except for the color hiked up on one side that he can’t identify with. So he gets bored and tired after the 13th restart in a 25 lap feature at 1:30 AM and never comes back.
I miss the Camaros, Novas, Mustangs, Fairlanes, and Galaxies. They were a pain to work on compared to modern late models,but the racing was so much more fun, and they filled the stands.
Totally agree. At my local dirt track, big car counts in the 70s and 80s. Then the five or six guys that could afford a "late model" were the only ones left by the 90s. Stock cars got eliminated completely before 2000. Their place got taken by the way more affordable IMCA modifieds
Great video. As a old "retired" racer I got to see the evolution of the dirt Late Model. From Chevelle's and Camaros with big engines and tires to today's high tech high dollar machines. Sure was a blast to see it change and be a part of it. Thanks for explaining it to the newer generation of race fans.
That's the hope!!! Thanks Gregory!
I miss the wedge bodies. I grew up in the late 70’s and 80’s in southern Indiana so I got to see a lot of the greats race
Same here man....I miss the wedge cars so bad
I remember back in the early 80’s and some of radical things that Charlie Swartz would show up to a big with. My favorite was the mid-engine dirt late model.
Oh wow, I'd like to see pics and videos of that!
In New Zealand for our super saloons(our version of late models) we are only now getting to grips with 4 bar link. My stepdad used to race them but has backed out after 30 years due to not having nowhere near as much fun as he used to but with different rules here I see that you could still create a stupid fast torsion bar setup suspension style super that would fuck over the new 4 bar link super saloons here
you hush aboout torsion bar!!!lol still got this project in my mind. come to the states for some good late model stuff
and down under for some good sprint car stuff you guys got the handle on them!
Really good video.
My uncle raced during these eras and experienced the changes first hand.
There was a speedweeks where he was racing on both asphalt and dirt with i think his Howe or Affordable chassis.
When the wedge late model design was phased put due to the body rules he found a loop hole that he exploited - built the roof and sail panels so that it went almost to spoiler. When confronted about the car not looking like a "stock car" he told the officials that it was a "station wagon"
He liked and had alot of success running the swing arm Rayburn chassis.
The 4 bar cars took him a while to adopt but he did find success with it.
I remember seeing a station wagon late model run at Devils Bowl in TX. Mid 1990s. Could that have been your Uncle?
@@DoctorElleGrumpy - i don't think that was when he ran the "station wagon" body. He did that in the mid-80's in Wissota after all the racing series effectively banned the "wedge body" late model but didn't give you the dimensions for the roof
I still have my dad's 1981 late model not running but still rolling just no engine and transmission. Miss the 1980 Dirt track racing car's.
This is so cool. Saw the thumbnail and clicked immediately. I love how late models look almost broken on level ground and completely amazing on the track.
Makes me think about how much I loved Super Modifieds growing up around the PNW asphalt scene.
super modifieds are bad ass, wish they had a bigger following in New England
@@TylerBonenfant They're so cool to watch. Those and dwarf cars were my favorites as a kid at the track growing up.
Those "billboard" cars were over the top!😂😂
We had a dirt track here a long time ago. Then they paved it sometime around the 50s? 60s? I don't remember. One thing I do know is that our track had the first known luxury suites. In the infield, there was a golf clubhouse that they used as boxes/suites and somehow we were the first track to have them. This would've been at State Fair Speedway in Shreveport, LA. We had 1 Nascar race here, won by Lee Petty. Lots of legendary drivers raced here at some point. I think it closed around 1969.
We also had IMCA races and other series here. 👌
Great video! 👍 You're very talented at this. Imagine if you make more videos on dirt late model racing, history, folklore, tracks, etc, that you'd be set.
Great video, I'd never really thought about the history of late models and where their name came from. That was very interesting.
Nephew's run an open late model for years. Regional team. Ran the Eldora a few times, didn't qualify once. Now gets comped for chassis/body cars, uses Propower motors. Part time driver with a damned good job, a wife and baby, so lots different than the 90s.
chad video, couldn't belive ya had so few subs. Hopes it changes soon
That’s also part of the reason late models have died off everywhere in the past 15 years. There use to be 4 local tracks that ran them
Until about 5 years ago when the car counts dropped to below 5 cars.
The cost and rule packages are out of hand. People dumping $75k into one car to win $1k for a weekly show. That’s why modifieds jumped in car counts. They pay nearly the same at about half the cost (Which is still expensive)
Glad to see you back! Hope you’re doing well ❤
Rad video Joe!! Was always curious how this stuff evolved over the years. Crazy to think this all started over a couple dudes in a garage one night haha
Great content Joe, ticked all the right boxes for me bud 🤘
Damn this video popped off! Hopefully this got ya some followers man, its a great video.🤙🏁
Excellent video. Really enjoyed watching it.
Great Video!! Thanks for posting and bringing me down memory lane.
Thank you for the kind words!
I started going to dirt track racing in 67, my dad raced a Coupe. The classes were Late Models, B cars “coupes” and Supers or Sprint cars. The evolution of Late Models was really cool but I did kind of miss look of 55 6 and 7 Chevy’s, Chevelles, Falcons and so on. I still have at least one FlexiFlyer decal I have yet to stick on a toolbox. This is a great video, THANKS!!!
Good video. Well done 👏
I absolutely lived at dirt tracks for the first 30 years of my life, but when the jacked-up setups started
(That looks like SNL making fun of us)
I 100% stopped going to dirt late model races.
I know several people who did the same thing.
Fantastic story telling!! Had no idea the same evolution on asphalt happened on dirt too
Great video on the history of the late model man.
If only it was filled with factual, detailed or relevant information. I’m going to have to drop a video that discuses the principal of late model chassis, suspension and aero design over the last 50 years.
Excellent run down! You earned a sub.
Welcome aboard! :D
Great video!
Another thing in regards to advancements in chassis is the engine offsets. I grew up in DLMs; my dad raced them from 2005 to 2019 until he passed away. We started with a 2003 GRT and our final car was a 2018 Rocket XR1....but I digress. When we took delivery of our then new XR1, we were building the car by dismantling the 2016 Rocket blue front end car next to it in the garage. While stripping the '16, we noticed the new XR1 had an offset in the engine bay compared to the chassis from just 2 years prior of almost 4" to the left. This alone made the weight transfer aspect HUGE and was a big key of why the XR1 was so dominate in it's debut. Most manufacturers have caught up to this (Longhorn especially), but at the time it was huge.
Neat little overview but there's been way too much development in the late model world to cover in just a 10 minute video. Highly recommend listening to Scott Bloomquist on the DJD podcast and his antics in the mid-80s/early 90s. Once the bodies were locked down the chassis and suspsensions themselves went nuts. I'm privileged to have watched the rise of the 4-link cars as a kid, was a great time to be in the sport!
Great overview and I hope it leads for a better understanding of the evolution of these cars for the new fan.
Lots of super good info here. Thanks for the kind words Kyle!
Being from fairbury I’ve always loved dirt racing this was a great video!
Love to see the history!❤
Great video bud
THANK GOD FOR THE ARROW IN THE THUMBNAIL.
NO OTHER CHANNEL HAS EVER DONE THAT.
ohwait
Great video. Thank you. As a northeast modified guy late models are still pretty foreign to me.
Ah the infamous lexann latemodels... weren't they something else... I was just going through your videos the other day and wondering when we'd hear from you again... I hope to see some latemodel racing out of you go up on here this season 🙏 😃
Soon 🙏🏻
@JoeLuskRacing that's what I like to here .. if you end up going to port royal at all this year to race maybe let us know on here .. I'd like to get the chance to finally meet you and if you get any shirts done grab one 🏁🏁🏁
good video man we need more lol
I grew up at Cottage Grove Speedway (Riverside Speedway at the time) and absolutely loved the super stock class which had the huge sideboards.
Seeing my home track here make me smile haha.
Used to race crates about 10 years ago. Got out of driving them but still went to track and watched or helped until 2018. Got into drag racing then. I’ve briefly checked in on late model racing from time to time since. Still know a couple people that do it. I think the suspension (shocks and spring packages) have changed more in the last 5 years than from 2009-2018 when I was still involved. Not to mention the bodies and the right fronts that stick out more than ever. Don’t see how they get into or onto a trailer. It’s all way over my head now. Takes a really intelligent person to make one of those things work.
Late 60s early 70s my Dad was engine man on a Ford powered race car. Field then was 70% Chevy 30% Ford. I asked Dad why. His reply, "Anybody can make a Chevy go fast, it takes brains to make a Ford go fast"
I was not a teenager at the time. We won 2 track championship. Sure miss those Ford's!!
Awesome video. Even in the past 10 years, chassis design, suspension and damper technology have been evolving year after year
The things they do with just shock absorbers are pretty crazy these days too. And almost always, the technology is trying to push beyond the rule book!
🏁🏁Great vid!!!!!🏁🏁
Thank u for makin this i was curious where my uncle Donnie Tilford ended up makin a wacky side wing late model
"Funny cars of the oval track ranks."
That is probably the most accurate thing i've ever heard, minus zoomies exhaust, twin parachutes and a wheelie bar.
I first saw Late Models in 1981, and you could still see that they were based on the Gen 2 Camaro. In 1982 Chevy redesigned the Camaro making it more angular and wedge shaped, now the only part that even remorely resembled a Camaro was the B- Piller. I never knew about the price of aluminum dropping, but it makes sense that the 1982 and up cars were easier to make out of aluminum sheet since they no longer needed curvy bodywork.
I actually enjoyed learning more about latemodels crazy they had over 200 cars at the world 100 my dream if I ever won the lottery or got alot of money is to have a $250,000 purse $50,000 to win 4 cylinder race just too see how many cars i get lol 😆
Awesome video man. I loved it from a New Zealander stand point compared to what we run her.
Woah!! Where did the Mark Roane picture come from?? That is awesome!
Spent a lot of time looking up old racing pics!
I LIKE OLD SCHOOL WITH THE BIG BILL BOARD WINGS
Now the racing industry as a whole is pricing itself into extinction and the sanctioning bodies that are supposed to be for the “racer” are profiting off of spec equipment from engines to tires to shocks etc. street stocks are doing the same thing as the early late models I never thought I’d see the day a street stock cost more to run than a late model or a sprint car.
A lot of issues can be solved with simple rule changes you make everyone run stock Napa or autozone 25.00 shocks and then guess what all the old cars get dragged outta the woods and get new life but then longhorn, rocket, capitol , kryptonite etc. don’t sell as many new chassis
It’s amazing how simple problems can be solved but refuse to be solved when tracks, and sanctioning bodies etc. get kickbacks from these companies sad thing is this companies won’t keep the tracks open when the racer is gouged to death and can’t afford to do it anymore and they can’t afford to go and the tracks have no choice but to close.
This is amazing
I will add that Wayne Brooks from Arkansas is one of the great innovators of the dirt late model. Because his car was one of the first to be built completely of tubing, without the stock car frame, as well as his was one of the first if not the first with rack-and-pinion steering. Which he got off a British car that was in his dad's auto salvage.
He was also one of the innovators that played a pivotal part in making the IMCA/UMP modified lighter, which is how the original Shaw modified came about.
I'd love to do a video about this! Any way I can get more info?
@@JoeLuskRacing Well this is the interview he did in which he talks about some of what I stated. Yet I got to work with him in 2001-02, so I got to hear a lot more from hom speaking about these topics with other people while I was working with him.
ruclips.net/video/lSX0nIht0pA/видео.html
@@TheCrewChief374 This channel has some real gems with loads of information and stories. Thank you so much for sharing! I've already watched a bit of the Wayne Brooks interview and will check out some of the others as well. Looks like they've had a lot of time with some legends of the sport!
Local track has a run what ya brung might and it’s insane what some teams dream up. Mostly big block mods with side boards but some sprint cars with monster wings etc… even some of the hobby stock guys run side boards etc… on a lil bull ring it’s about 1.5 seconds faster running flat out.
I have to be honest, I hate those anti-squat late models. When there were introduced where I live the late model field dropped from the low to mid 20's to less than 10 and has never recovered.
I wonder what the ultimate answer is... Racers always find a way to make things more expensive for themselves
Lol NO ONE in the sport calls them anti squat latemodles. Probably because it’s stupid and anti squat is a single effect/metric among dozens that are happening and effecting the car on multiple axis.
The suspension didn’t cause the class participation to drop regionally. The generalized cost of the sport caused that falloff and latemodel has always been the most costly. Engine and shock package are the biggest culprit but overall inflation for Motorsports components grew at a rate 30x the rest of the world until recently. But a four bar suspensions in late model has been around since the late 80s the cars have been up on the bars since 98. The 90’s where famous for the constant 3 wheeling big guys dropped the car on corner entry.
What the heck! The 4 bar became standard in latemodel LONG BEFORE the “early 2000’s” ! It was literally STANDARD in the 90’s! Bar cars (4 link, 3link, Z-link and Swing arm cars all existed in some capacity at the end of the 80’s) this is a fact. Yes most cars in the 80’s where leaf spring but not all. You literally can’t name a damn late model MFG in mid to late 90’s that didn’t have a 4bar car. This is just insane. There was stock clip (limited late models) and “Emods” running 4bars in 96!
I personally drove my first 4 bar car in 98 when I was in middle school.
Apologies. I had a very hard time finding more info about this period - in most of the footage I watched, cars didn't seem to start hiking the left rear until right around 2000. This is where I pulled my very broad date of early 2000s from. Since I got this wrong, I'll pin this comment to the top so people can get more accurate info! Thanks!
The reason why you start to see the left rear hike up. Wasn't the on set of 4 bar suspension. It was simply the different application of the bar angle
1984 Rayburn built the first 4 bar car and the 4 came directly from his neighbour bob gliddens pro stock drag car
@@JoeLuskRacing I've been a crew chief on dirt late model teams since '97 and worked on them since '92. Still doing it. The technical aspects of the suspension evolution was kind of missed in the video. I'd be glad to answer any questions you have, but overall I thought the video was great.
I would love to see a video on rhe progression of modifieds as well
I'd love to learn more about them!
Sweet, my photo of Sanger in his Monza made the video
Excellent video. I guess I prefer the 1981 cars the best, followed by the late 80's wedges. I don't like today's side rollers no matter how fast they are.
The best dirt track cars to me are the stock 8 class!😎👍💗 the ones that are still basically stock cars with weight reduction
Lol.......weird? My favorite, the Super Modifieds have gotta be the ultimate in Bizarre & Outrageous by U're standards. 😆
Best of Luck 👍👍
Super Modifieds are the one case where I think speed might be on the verge of a problem 😅
I can only imagine those guys are getting dizzy in there.
Charlie Schwartz started that wedge madness.
This video was interesting
Can you do one on the evolution of the UMP/USMTS/USRA/IMCA modified?
This was next on my list!!!!!!
Please take a look at Austin Kirkpatrick’s solid front axle super late model car. It’s a wonder of a machine and perfectly encapsulates the wackiness of late models
That was an excellent video
@@JoeLuskRacingI know!! It really brought me into dirt track racing, it was so well made and told the story really well!
Love the vid. Wish it was possible to go around to each region n be able to create a racing game that has some of the legends of each region have a car done up like some of the legendary drivers cars and have them in the games with actual back stories of the legends that helped build the sport we all love today
I would love to see that it would have to have more southern racetracks than the outlaws game i would love to see my home track smoky mountain
Good video - now that you have shown the body evolution how about the engines -
We had a sportsman car and a non wing sprint in the late 70's then went to wing sprint and a late model winning 3 track Championships then the wedge cars come out and nearly ruined all late models.
From what i understood there was a good reason why people went wild with dirt racing. It was hard to hide all of that money people was getting from running & selling illegal substances. So they would buy top of the line equipment and get the best motors they could find from Cup teams and go at it. While telling folks your used tire & pizza shop is ddoing great!!!
I'd recommend checking out the Netflix series "Bad Sport" - there's an episode on Randy Lanier which is really interesting. IMSA and drug dealing!
@@JoeLuskRacing I have watched that it was crazy. The joke was IMSA stood for International Marijuana Smuggling Association. Lanier wasn't the only ones running stuff they were just the ones that got caught.
As the fudging of the rules focuses on the cars only turning left and the aerodynamic and suspension advantage that teams work on I wonder if racing could be done bidirectionally. Have qualifying run clockwise and then the final run anticlockwise for example. Less grip would make for better drivers winning rather than a better aero/suspension package winning.
I know that they do this in Australia. The production sedan classes especially.
Shoulda spent at least a few seconds talking about Schwartz’s wedge and rear engine cars… in addition to the video.
The rear engine car was the straw the broke the back of the camel…
That car is definitely one of the most fascinating pieces of history in our sport. I'd love to cover it more in the future!!
@@JoeLuskRacing i think you could make a whole video on Charlies innovation i have always admired him though i only got to see him race a couple of times
5:53 Ahh….Purvis and Finch were awesome on dirt.
I love those old wedge cars. Wish they still had a class for them.
The part that would let the rear end move is called a Bird Cage!
soo many legends in one video lmfao, I wish I was alive in the hayday of dirt slinging lmfao
Me too.
I have been racing super late models for 30 yrs the cars today are absolutely high tech my engine is a Robbie Yates makes around 1200 HP I use Penske shock's my chassis is a longhorn from start to finish race ready $156,000 these super late models we run today can produce twice the power of Nascar, And with good hook up You can be running 70 mph hit the throttle and raise the front left wheel off the ground
Your Super Late model isn't pushing anything near 1200hp... c'mon bro quit capping 🤣
Have you seen the outlaw figure 8 cars?
Those things are crazy. I could never understand investing so much to do something that could so easily get torn up. It would be neat to talk to the folks that do that to understand better what makes them tick!
I want the insane back!
Totally agree, not relatable today and Toyota plastic bodies, what a joke. Pintys series bodies much more relatable and no import$ stinking up the field.
I love the dirt late model
You got the history mostly correct. Robert Smalley was against the smaller cars.
In 1984 STARS series created by Carl Short, Satch Worley and Frank Plessinger was started to eliminate wedges because of Jim Dunn's death. The NDRA still ran wedges most of 1984 and part of 1985.
Get it right.
I got my info from late model historian Bob Schafer at joeverdegan.com/from-the-5-10-32-book-race-cars-or-ufos/ - Do you know where I can learn more about the STARS series?
Richie Gardner wheelie at Eriez is an epic photo from my childhood.....I grew up near tobber chassis.....we used to ride our bikes down there during summer break to look at the racecars
I miss the days when they looked like a real car..!!!
I like the old look
They became 1/24 scale slot cars or vice versa.
Dirt late models were actually attractive in the early 1980's when the individual makes/models were identifiable to their street counterparts. They also sounded great with 180 degree headers. Shame so ugly today in appearance and with their flat exhaust note. Caused me to now patronize asphalt short tracks with stock appearing classes.
at the 23 secant you called my sport weird
Low grip? LOL there is more grip on a tacked up dirt track then any asphalt track you’ve ever heard of.
The Camaros of the late 70’s -81 were the glory days to me. I’m no fan of todays cars
Spoiler warning @ 2:00
Have you ever heard of "skinny " cars that were run on the west coast during the 70s and 80s? I believe they were similar to the early modified back east. I had a 62 nova that had the square tail lights, and it was only 2 foot between them. We took a car, and cut 18 to 24 inches out of the middle and put the 2 sides together, creating an open wheel car. No front fenders and just enough flat sheet metal to cover the carb. Then add an early sprint car style wing on the roof. You can see some that still run at merced speedway in california, but they call them valley sportsmen. ruclips.net/video/n6Am1VlPDoY/видео.html
Those are incredible! We have something somewhat similar in PA called super sportsman - but they ended up becoming just sprint cars with square tubes and starters.
I would definitely love to learn more about these. They just run at Merced now?
@@JoeLuskRacing as far as i know. They are so skinny , you can stick both arms out each window. I wish i still had mine. Mine was really old. had old split bell rear end, but cast iron, not aluminium like newer sprint rear ends. most that are running are using a chassis like the imca modifieds and putting a different body on them.
The Coups and Coaches were the best, IMO. The new cars look like lunch-boxes on wheels
I really want to like current Late Models, cause they put on some great racing, but they're just so damn ugly to look at with their twisted bodies. They only look good from one angle these days, and it just puts me off from watching them.
Dirt track racing USED to be affordable.
I'll take a dirt late model show any day over NAPCAR.
You and me both!
NASCAR sort of sucks theses days
I'm totally with you and I've always been. Dirt late model stock cars are the real deal.
I love the late models. I read most of the comments about they should be "stock cars". Aren't the nasrcars supposed to be "stock"?? Hell, only thing stock about them is the factory brand emblems. Lol!😅🤣
Hell yeah 🙌🏻 🏁
Why does everyone say that stock car racing started with NASCAR? That's bullshxt. Stock car racing existed before NASCAR started up.
Where were you racing with the friggin British accent commentator? They need to get a good ole red neck on that mic 😂 dirt late model racing is Americana we kicked the friggin Brits back home couple hundred years ago! Merica!!!
It was Australia
You could fix almost all of the stupid aero problems by having the races run in either direction.
I know that there are some classes in Australia that flip a coin to decide their direction every race. It's a super interesting idea, but I think people (especially those that have been around a long time) would absolutely hate it.
They look so stupid. Would Smokey Unick have gone to that extreme? Probably. I will stick to sprinters thanks.although odd they aren’t meant to try and look like production cars.
They sure look better than those contoured things , even though they are very innovative.