Everything about this image is wrong, at the back of the car. McPherson Struts ? NO ! CV joints on a solid axle ? Certainly not. This car mocked its big brother, the Alfa Duetto, in many ways. Neither Italian car group ever made it to Prime Time, here in America. We could never get the parts or the manuals to repair them. Make one sequential service mistake and tragedy could be the result. The beauty contestant simply couldn't match the image, in practice.
I picked up on that as well. The 124s I worked on in the '80s did have live axles (I replaced more than a few third members.) Marelli ignition and electricals. The ones I encountered (I worked at an independent shop near the beach in San Diego) were not unreliable, but I did hear that FIAT stood for Fix It Again, Tony, and Feeble Italian Attempt at Transportation. I did like working on the dual-cam engines. The single cam X1/9? Not so much.
My girlfriend in college had a steel blue '79 spider. About a month into dating her, she asked me if I'd like to drive it. I sheepishly admitted I didn't know how to drive a stick. Instead of dumping me on the spot, she said "There's an empty parking lot over there. I'll teach you." So I married her. One day, in '88, I went out to the parking lot at work to climb into my Datsun but it wasn't there. In its place was a red '80 spider 2000 with a note from my wife saying "Now maybe you'll stop borrowing mine." I drove that car until 2004 when she suggested I might think about a new car since the old Fiat had about 200,000 miles on it. "Yeah, I guess I should get a sensible car finally, huh?" She said "You should get that Lotus Elise you're always talking about." So I did. I still have it and her.
I always had to choose between my girl n my car . I always chose my girl so I have no car that I could be proud of. Wish I met a girl that loved my car ❤
Wow, what an awesome story. It’s a shame that FIAT, Alfa, and Lancia didn’t do better in the US as they all made some incredible cars. I still see a few Alfa Giulias (even the quadrifoglias) every week and I think it’s the most beautiful modern 4 door for sale, much better than the BMW, Audi, and Mercedes you see all the time. Not to mention all the ugly crossover SUV that everyone wants to own now
I'm 72, I owned three 124s and a 131. First 124 was in college in 1972 after a horrible experience with a Triumph TR-3. Bought a Pontiac Trans Am for kicks and it was great until the gas crisis hit. Sold it and bought another 124 and it got me through the gas fiasco while enjoying the commutes. Sold that 124 to work in the Virgin Islands. When those jobs finished up I bought the next 124. Yet another good, reliable car. After a year or so boredom set in when I bought a used Corvette on impulse. It didn't take long before I got tired of fixing its problems, and it had already broken down once with a new girlfriend in it (can't have that). Falling back on experience, another 124 and it too was fun and reliable. Owned that car for two summers until I got another job in the Virgin Islands. When that job finished up I bought the 131 from a friend and it was fun as well, but in a different way especially during the winters. I owned that car for several years until the first unusual problem occurred. A small bundle of wires routed over the steering column rubbed through and caused several fuses to short out. That was the first time I had to leave ANY of my four Fiats in a shop for a few days. Other than routine maintenance for the most part, I enjoyed my Fiat experiences. I can't be the only one with good things to share!
Former owner here, of both the Spider and coupe versions. They were both great driving cars, as he says. One minor addition: the handle on the convertible top was visible behind him; you could literally just reach back (when stopped, of course) and pull the top up and latch it, a masterpiece of lightweight and easy-to-use design.
Indeed, I owned on too it was a GREAT sports car! FIAT won an engineering award for the rag top design that was a one handed operation unlike anything from England
I bought a serviceable 1976 Navy Blue Spyder with Red seats in 1988. To increase MPG, I rigged the carb accelerator pump to not cut in until the last 10% of throttle length. This adjustment corrected a full throttle that was too rich. MPG went from 20 to 22mpg or so. Not bad and the engine just ran better. Fastest speed she ever reached was 93 MPH along a 2-lane country highway where it blew the universal joint, rap rap rap to a quick stop. I wrapped the U-joint in a rag and limped a few miles to the nearest garage and paid to replace the U-joint plus tip for working on Sunday. Fun car to drive 4 sure.
I could write a book on the 124 Spider, I have owned a slew of them and have a 1977 model in my garage waiting time for a restoration. Much of what you have said is spot on. In 1981 Fiat pulled out of the US, leaving Malcolm Bricklin to market the 124 spider and X1/9 under their builder's names. The 124 survived till the 1985.5 model as the Pininfarina Azzurra and the X as the Bertone X1/9 kept going till 1989. The engine, as you say, is quite brilliant. Revvy and "square" it has a sound that, when uncorked, is a heady combination of Ferrari shriek and Chevrolet V8 thump. This is due to the rod length and stroke in the later cars being very close the the Chevy 350 in size. The 5 speed is very light, but also quite fragile, 2nd gear porsche style syncros do not like to be manhandled. The biggest issues with the Spider though is America itself. Even today, there are no stand alone Fiat dealers. They were always tacked on to other more successful dealerships. Thus you might get a Cadillac dealer also selling Fiats as an "accessory". This would include those mechanics who were more at home wrenching on American Iron, than more tender Italian tin. While the rust issue can never be overstated, the rest was due to most American's ambivalence to Maintenance. The 124 engine used a dual point system to help start, the timing belt needed replacing every 2 years or 20,000 miles, and fiat did some odd things with grounds. Quite a few owners did not see the need to replace a "fan belt" every two years, killing many of those willing little engines. The electricals ran to "common grounds" that when disturbed, could cause hard starting and seemingly unrelated electrical failures. (playing with the taillights could disturb the ground for the fuel pump). One thing you did not touch on, the 124 had one of the best soft tops in the business until the MX5 Miata came along. It could be lowered from the driver's seat with just two clips and pushing it back. Raising was just as easily done over the shoulder, but could break the back of the seat. The seats are sublime. I am currently using one as an office chair, bolted to the base of a once uncomfortably cheap chair. I can only assume I have outed myself as quite the fan of these great little cars.
A new timing belt every 20,000 miles? That makes zero sense. What were they thinking? And thanks for explaining about the grounds, too. Another "what were they thinking?" question. Had to be stupid bean counters getting in the way. Those two items ruined an amazing car. Fiat- Fix It Again Tony. But the top was unbelievable easy to lower. MGB or TR6 tops were terrible (Healey's weren't too bad), you almost needed two people to lower them. Thanks again for posting, you're the reason I read the comment sections, to get the real scoop.
@@markdavis9148 Luckily, the belt replacement was an easy one hour job that I would do in my driveway and that didn’t need any special tools. Not something you could say about the rubber cam belt Ferraris!
Great Video! I still have the 1978 that my parents bought new in San Diego. It was handed down to me in 1992. Looks and drives like new. Just yesterday I had it out and about enjoying the drive. It's been a fun car. I agree with you comments regarding the ride height and one of these days I am going to drop it 2 inches to put it down where it was originally intended. There are two companies here in Texas that supply every part you would ever need for the classic spider, so getting the parts is just a day or two wait for the postman. A major culprit with no-starts was the dual point system. They constantly required adjusting and there was a trick to doing it right. You see, one set of points was the "starting" set, and the other was the "running" set. You had to jumper a relay under the glove-box to properly adjust each set. Reliability has been quite impressive since I deleted the dual point system and added a magnetic pickup in the distributor. I would not hesitate to take the car on a 1000+ mile trip, which I have done. Thanks again!
Sorry, Jack, but with those beautiful clean lines and thin pillars of its glasshouse, the 124 Sport Coupe was one of the most stunning cars of its time. IMO it still is.
This was the car that allowed me to find out, as an American, what things like handling, maneuverability, braking and steering were all about as compared to the usual muscle cars back in the 70s. A friend had one for a while. As beautiful as the car was, it needed constant repairing. Suddenly, the distributor rotor would crack as well as a lot of other things. It stranded him on several occasions. He got rid of it later in the year he bought it. Replaced it with an RX-7...I think it was the long term reliability here that cost Fiat it's market share...
Ditto. I owned several Coupes in New Zealand. Fun. A convertible I bought in USA wasn't maintained; needed SO much repaired. Coupes handled great but I found the 1.4 underpowered. 1600 should have been the minimum. i'd have loved an 1800, and if 2L ? Wow !!! Yes RX7 was scary fast. A quantum leap in every way !!!!! Freaking awesome car
Long-term reliability...and yet Land Rover exists. It's a conundrum. At least the Fiat is easy enough to work on for anyone with a clue. Many American cars at the time were about as reliable as a Fiat, but that didn't stop them from selling. I think the excuse then was that garages wouldn't work on "them 4in cars" so people didn't want to risk buying one.
My father had the red 1972 124 Spider and this was the first car I drove, legally, when I turned 15 a few years later. What a great car during that time. My first car was used Fiat 128 sedan. That 124 was fantastic. Say what you want, I drive a 991.2 turbo in Germany currently, but that 124 was great. I would still by one today.... Thanks for posting this guys!
Had one of these in the 90s. Loved it. Sure, got all the "Fix It Again Tony" jokes from my friends, but I never really had any problems. Was going to restore it properly, but life got in the way. Wish I still had it. Thanks for the memories.
This is the very car that I enjoyed tossing into the scary two-lane roads in Italy and France back in the early '70's. "Power-to-weight" is where the real driving fun is in my experience. It was at least as much fun as a well sorted Mini Cooper S. But then I get great pleasure from getting this sort of engine 'up on the cam'. Your growing connoisseurship of the driving experience has put words to my memories of this absolutely classic machine. Great big 'well done' Jack!
I had a '71 124 Coupe in 1977. 1608cc engine. Absolutely loved it! Rust was a big problem but Fiat also made the mistake of partnering with Chrysler dealerships in a lot of cases, and they mistreated customers. Truly a shame.
I don't respond to videos that often, but this time I have to. Awesome to see 'my' car on this channel. Been watching every video for years now as the Italian models get much love and appreciation from you. This particular video shows exactly why I've bought my red '79 Fiat 124 Spider 2.0! Keep it up Giacomo (Jack)! Really enjoying your content!
So, so happy, Jack, that you did this review. Between my father and I we had six to eight of these...I can't actually remember now. It's the only car I drove for the first 11 years that I had a license. I didn't want anything else. Compared to British sports cars of the time, it had four wheel discs, 5-speed trans, decent rear seat room (for a small sports car), decent trunk ("boot", if you must), aluminum (really...aluminium?"), head, belt-driven, twin cam, high-revving, pretty bulletproof engine, and a great top (sigh..."hood"), that really did not leak and could be raised an lowered in seconds, from the driver's seat, with one hand...and they were cheap! I do not think it was reliability that killed off Fiat here so much as the rust problem...and it was a big problem. But 124 Spiders taught me about car control and car repair. As far as the chassis integrity and stiffness, I can assure you that it is possible to swerve to avoid a car facing you in your lane, correct into a huge, buried boulder on the verge, reset the entire, left, front wheel assembly back 18", pop the car up into a 30º angle, hit a telephone pole, move the pole back from its location two feet, then put said pole in the middle of the engine bay...and walk out of the car with just a teeny scratch on your left knee. Quite the strong, little thing. Oh, and it is possible to turn them over. Ask Dear Old about that one.
This brings back memories. A friend of mine imported a Spider from the USA to Belgium, restored it, de-bumpered it, so it would even look more like a little Ferrari. He fitted a 2-litre injection version of this engine, out of a Fiat Argenta. It was a fun little car, even more fun when that engine was swapped for a Delta Integrale engine. That was quite the mad ride!
the 16v head from the Integrale will bolt to the 1800 and 2000 132 series engines. The only reason it does not really fit the spider as the head is slightly longer at the back. You either need to notch the firewall to fit or move the engine forward some and destroy the handling. The trick is to notch the firewall and then fit the transmission from the Fiat 131 racing, it is a much heavier duty unit than the rather fragile 124 transmission.
In Germany some people installed Ford 2.8 V6 engines to these Fiat spiders or (best solution an Alfa Romeo 2.5 GTV 6 engines with Alfa 6 Transmission) original Fiat engines werent bad either if tuned properly, you could turbo them so over 200HP
Many times a small car and power make for a great deal of fun. Without having to go dangerously fast. And I love going fast, but a combo of a little power and nice handling is difficult to beat.
The Fiat twin cam and the single overhead cam in the 128 were the first cars America had seen with a timing belt. It was supposed to be replaced at 25000 mile intervals but somehow that info rarely made it to the eyes of the owners, many of whom were young people buying their first cars. When that belt stripped, as usually happened on a cold morning at start-up the pistons and valves would meet up and the car would not run again until the bent valves were replaced. This was a rite of passage for nearly all new Fiat owners and it didn't take long for the word to spread that the cars would need major repairs before they even reached 50K Between that and the rusty car buy back fiasco of the seventies and Fiat gave up on the US market for a looong time.
Being an American who lived through the 70's -- and even once drove a US version of the Spyder -- it didn't cause Fiat to leave the US. In fact the Spyder (and the X-1/9) both contined to be sold in the US for a few more years under the Bertone and Peninfarina name. It was Fiat's other cars which torpedoed the brand. Fiat couldn't maintain their sales network on just the sports cars. It also was getting very expensive to meet the US pollution and crash safety requirements. The costs of these certifications was being spread over a shrinking fleet of models. They could be sold as Bertones/Peninfarinas because they could operate under the reduced requirements of a "specialist" manufacturer. These required fewer cars to be crashed for study and shorter emissions tests. So rest assured, the pretty Spyder didn't kill Fiat in the US, the government bureaucrats did! We can take shallow solace in the fact that it was done for our own good. 😢
True enough on Fiat's other cars. I think I saw one Strada/Ritmo in my life. A few 131s, and more than a few 128s. The later cars did not sell well at all.
I moved to Italy in 2010 and bought a 1968 124 Spider in green in 2013. There was nothing like zooming along the country roads of NE Italy in this light, nippy little softtop. But my wife wouldn't get into it because there were no seat belts, and I couldn't justify owning a car that got so little use. I sold it two years later for more than I'd paid for it, the only car I've ever had that I can say that about.
I so very, very nearly bought one twenty years ago and rather wish I did. However, I bought another Lampredi-powered car - an X1/9 - so I can’t really complain. A great video, Jack; I personally prefer it when you keep it real, rather than reviewing unobtainium cars that most of us couldn’t even aspire to.
Had to watch this again. The sound of the engine through the shift ratios was ingrained in me, so deeply, that when I went out of my last 124 and into an Alfa GTV-6, I had trouble shifting at the right time. My brain was programmed for the 124 and the sound of an inline four. It's so nice to hear that again. BTW, you can rev past redline with no harm. The engine's ancillary stuff breaks but the engine proper really does not. Tuner and racer Al Cosentino, who ran the parts supplier, FAZA, I think from Florida, would run the 1600 to 8000rpm with no problems. If I remember, the comment was, "...can take a steady diet of 8000rpm without fail..." With an ANSA on them, they sounded wonderful. There is no rev limiter so the occasional errant foot did wind them up to lofty levels at times. I would love to drive one again (actually, of several recurring dream themes, driving my 124's pops up often). The most modifications I ever managed was on one of my 1972 1600's. A set of Konis, springs, an ANSA exhaust, and SUPER WIDE rear tires...185's. I was cool.
Funny you mentioned dreams. I’ve had a recurring dream over the years that I still had my old ‘69 124 sport coupe and it was hidden away in the backyard or something and I’d forgotten about it. There was something about that car that got under my skin. I’ve had a bunch of sporty European cars since then but that one was special.
@@MrLou501 Is that what it is? Early days of driving and all of what I learned of how to handle, trail brake, threshold braking, at at 45mph. Top down in November from Philadelphia to Boston. Jamming three large friends full of pizza in the 124, top up, raining and it broke down. Expertly performed field repairs. It all happened first with my Fiats. I miss them.
I remember in grade 12 in Canada all the cool kids had Camaro's, Mustangs etc. except one kid who had a red 124 spider and I was green with envy. Thanks for the great share jack, lovely to see that car again.
What a great review! I drove a 1971 (1608 "BS" model) spider in my college years. It was purchased as a 9-year old barn-find "Fix it again Tony" special for $100 in 1980 at a garage sale. I restored the car in 1983, rebuilding the engine, transmission, interior, exterior, and wiring, and drove it until I had to move away for college in 1987. It was a car that never let me down, and the car that on reflection many years later made me decide to sell both of my 1990 NA Miatas. While the NA Miata's handled much better compared to the BS spider, the driving experience was just boring, and the cockpit had an unfortunate pocket of dead air behind the windshield that made top-down driving no better than with the factory hardtop. The 124, top down or top up was a great place to be.
I was never fortunate enough to travel in a Fiat 124 Spider, but a high school mate of mine's parents owned a 124 Coupe, and although not as stylish as the Spider, I could tell from a passenger's point of view it handled well, and the interior with its wood on the dashboard and the Italian panache was just so different from the run-of-the-mill vehicles of the time (1974). Another great video Jack!
My sister had a '72 for a long time and her boyfriend had (I think) a '78. Later, a work friend of mine had a late '70s model that had been handed down by his mom. They were surprisingly good and reliable cars, which isn't a word usually associated with Fiats, and they had more room than you would have expected. My sister's '72 was pretty beat up and worn out, but it never failed her. Lots of fun!
Having owned 2 Spiders and a Coupe, I can say that for maximum acceleration, one can safely shift at 500 RPM above redline, and that 5th gear is too close to 4th. One of the things I use to do to when getting onto a freeway back when the national speed limit was 55 MPH in the US was to accelerate in 2nd to about 7200 RPM, around 58 MPH, then shift into 5th. Another interesting point is that they had a mechanical only ignition advance, no additional vacuum, so I got almost the same millage driving at 60 as I got one day when I woke up late to get to the airport and was driving 100 to 110 most of the way. A noticeable improvement in them is to use a specific manual gearbox oil, GL-4 like "Redline MTL" as opposed to 80W90 differential GL-5 oil in the transmission.
In 1979 a friend "gifted" me a 1974 Fiat 124 Spider. It was beat to shit. It needed a clutch and first gear. Replaced the clutch and first gear. When I did, there was only 1 bell housing bolt left holding the transmission to the engine. I also made new rocker panels and fixed the left fender enough to hold the headlight on that side so that it pointed straight ahead instead of being aimed at the ground. I learned stick on that car and had an absolute blast driving it. It was like driving a roller skate. About 1 year after I had it, my friend sent me a recall notice he had gotten from Fiat. They were buying back most of the cars they sent recall notices to as they had a reputation for rusting so badly that they were in danger of losing the suspension if you hit a bump hard enough. They bought mine back for 2105 dollars. I hated to lose it but it WAS an accident waiting to happen. The Fiat techs (directly from Italy) took photos of the undercarriage and the decision was final. it was one of the worst examples of undercarriage corrosion they had seen. Funny thing was, even the ones that were in unusually good condition only fetched $75 more than my rust bucket. I would love to have one in really good condition these days but they're a little hard to find.
I bought mine 8 years ago in good condition from a 2nd owner fir $2300. Paid an extra $200 for an aftermarket hardtop I have never fitted to the car. A parts car now runs around that price. A good example of you can find one $7000 to $10000. A restored around $20000 and up. Not selling though even knowing this since it’s easily the most fun and pleasant sports car I’ve ever owned.
I presently own 2 of these spiders, an earlier 1978 and a later 1978. I have an uprated 2L engine, dual webers, high compression pistons, ceramic coating header and upgraded tranny. The car is a blast to drive, with about 135 HP. Considering I also own and cherish 1965 Mustang fastback, I really enjoy the 124 spider, easy to work on and most importantly great cheap fun in the summer. The car was also interestingly the first mass produced car with a rubber timing belt.😊
I credit my B-series 124 Coupe with turning me into a bad driver... sort of. It was so rewarding when you drove it well, but it was also very forgiving when you drove it poorly. Driving other people's cars I'd find myself in sphincter-clenching moments that the 124 would never have given me. And I couldn't really complain about rust or reliability issues with mine.
It’s one of those beautiful Italian convertibles I always longed for and wanted but never had the balls to buy. What a machine ….I’m straight on to “car and classic” to see if my balls will let me buy one now. Brilliant review as always Jack.
Be very careful to check where the front cross member bolts into the chassis rails. This was a known weak point as the bolts were seldom retorqued which lead to flexing, and cracking of the rails. Sadly a lot of owners just welded them into place which meant wheel alignment was then impossible. I owned one, in Scotland, back in the 90s and learned the hard way....Very easy to mod the engines though!
When compared to post 2004 ('young-timer') old German vehicles that appear to have engines fitted with lots of 'shoe-horns', and complete with dodgy 'breaky-breaky' plastics - a 124 Spider is euipped with simple mechanical systems and lots of space to work in - put simply - a delight to work on. The 124 with the 1438cc engine is a plessure to drive, whilst the later 1608cc (or slightly later 1592cc) equipped car is perhaps the 'Goldilocks' version. Not sure where you are located, however my preference would be for a California based car, as the Californian climate tends to halt its proficiency to rust. I currently have a Californian sourced 124 Spider in my workshop (i.e. storing it for a friend) - and it's rust free condition is truly remarkable.
In the mid/late 70s I had a 1972 1500 Spyder and my best friend had a 1970 124 Coupe. I drove mine twice on 2K mile trips across the US while he drove his 4 times on similar distances. Unfortunately due to Midwest US winter road salt use they both were rusted out by 1980 and sold. The 124 was my first Italian car which was followed by a Lancia, 2 Ferraris and an Alfa!
I love your cheery enthusiasm for the cars. I had a 1970 124 Sport Coupe with the 1.6 L I bought used in 1975 while a friend had the '69 with the 1.4L. The 1.4 L was far more rev happy and thus gave a much better subjective experience. However, I was never disappointed with the 1.6 as it was a reliable car for the 6 years I had it. It is all about balance which the Fiat had in spades. The failure of Fiat in the US was due to the reputation for unreliability but also the dramatic rise of the Japanese cars. The interiors of my Fiat and my Alfa GTV were demonstrably less durable than the Japanese cars and the need for more regular service and attention to a belt driven camshaft sabotaged the car in a market used to great iron lumps of inattention.
I can only speak for what I know but I don’t see Japanese cars appealing to the same buyer. FIATS were (and to a degree are) cheerful, quirky and above all fun and stylish cars. You might even call them drivers cars. Nothing Japanese is or has ever been more than a soulless tool to do a job. They lack style of any kind- except borrowed as with Miata. They lack driver enjoyment in their admittedly well built beige plastic cabins. The engines are technically great innovations on existing tech but choosing between the aria of my ‘’80 Spider and the whine of a Honda is no contest.
I think you're right about the need for re-jetting. I had the 1800cc version in a 124 Sport Coupe and it was probably the sweetest reviest engine I've ever owned. I loved the Sport Coupe for it's engine and incredible handling. Did you know, the main bearings on that engine were the same size or bigger than the 4.2L Jaguar straight six (which I also owned at the time)? Amazing! The brakes were also incredible with the bias valve in the rear that caused the back to hunker down when braking to limit the adverse weight transfer. It was also faster than the 3.0L Capri as I found out with some dodgy road races! Too bad it fell apart with rust. The rust was so severe that it failed its second MOT (4 years old) so badly that it had to be scrapped. A crying shame.
I had an orange one in college. It had two bumps on the engine hood. I loved that car, but local Fiat car service in the mid-west USA was horrible! They put in the replacement radiator valve system upside down, and didn't know it (kind of looked like a heart valve system). I found that out when I sold it. They put a toggle switch on my dash to run the radiator fan as a hack style fix. Loved the video. Made me feel 20 years old again!
😮Had 3 124BC s. All nominally 1971. First had 1438cc, second had 1608cc third had 1592cc. All mostly stock until third which got twin 40 IDF s, reasonable autocross cams (don't remember numbers) and raised compression. Added 14inch wheels and 205mm tires. Koni shocks, lowered springs, larger anti sway bar front and added rear antisway bar. Finally ran and handled as good as it looked (all three were red).
Thanks for this reminder, Jack. I also once owned a blue 1974 Coupe, followed by a red 1976 Spider, both bought new. Neither had air conditioning, naturally, and being assigned as a young military pilot in the hot, humid deep south of the US in 1976, I traded the Coupe for the Spider so I could at least throw down the top (which, I agree, was a marvel of great engineering.) Both were lots of fun, but not very quick. They handled really well however. The vast difference in styling between them reflects the fact that many Bertone designs (Coupe) tended toward the boxy, with lots of hard edges, whereas most Pininfarina designs (Spider) were graceful, smooth and sinuous. They performed pretty much the same. The engineering was miles beyond my first car, an MGB. I filled all the bosy cavities of the Spider with rust preventative as soon as I bought it, and owned it for 25 years with no rust whatsoever. It did live in the south, however, and never saw real winter weather. It only had lap belts, so I sold it on to another enthusiast before my young son became really aware of it, and wanted it for his own. Instead, he ultimately got a Scion TC with lots of air bags (mom liked that). As pointed out, FIAT really never developed the robust dealer network in the US that might have helped the brand succeed. Alfa is a similar story. Our loss.
The cut-away drawing shown at 1:44 is of the homologation special made for Rally use, the FIAT 124 Sport Special, later known as the FIAT 124 Abarth. Independent McPherson strut rear suspension with reversed lower wishbones and a larger engine with fuel injection. Nice car, shame they didn't make it a regular production item. I wonder if anyone makes a replica of that rear end for fitting to your 124 Spider.
I was into these years ago, and I knew of one that used a Ford Sierra diff. I made a jig to convert the Argenta rear axle, to weld new plates to take the 124 locations, as I wanted better gearing for motorway use. The steering on that 1400 was recirculating ball from the original 124 cars, much later ones had rack and pinion. I went from a 1969 Alfa Romeo GTV to a 70s Fiat 124 Coupe, and the handling on the limit was much better on the latter, but the engine on the Alfa was superior. You could swap the cams for the 1608 ones and they used to rev higher and sound great if you fitted the twin IDFs from the earlier model.
@@anvilsvs The rear suspension of (for example) the Elan was described as 'Chapman strut'. That had a large-based wishbone that was not reversed. I think the term actually means 'McPherson strut at the rear'. So, either it's an unwarranted renaming of McPherson's front suspension, or cars like the Porsche Boxster and FIAT X1/9 wear McPherson front and Chapman rear suspension
I was friends with the Fiat 124 designer, American expatriate Tom Tjaarda (whose father John was himself a well-respected car designer in Detroit). He designed the 124 during his brief time at Pinafarina before he moved on to take over Ghia, where his main claim to fame was the De Tomaso Pantera. Tom told me he stole the rear end of the 124 directly from one of his previous efforts, the one-off Corvette Rondine show car. Do a Google search on Corvette Rondine and look at the rear 3/4 views. The entire rear end is nearly identical to the 124. (He also used it on his Ferrari 365 California design, which he also did while at Pinafarina).
Fabulous, Fiat,Lotus,TVR to name just a few knew that the key was balance and light weight to brilliant road holding, handling and enjoyable driving, the polar opposite to the dreadful "S.U.V's" and the even worse "crossovers " that are polluting modern car lineups, its such a shame that these dreadful, bloated abominations are so prevalent and with electric versions of the same cr@p we'll never see the likes of this little beauty ever again.
Awesome video. Fun little car. That red colour makes it adorable. Thank you for introducing me to the Lancia Kappa, it is certainly something. Looking forward to the next video. Keep up the good work.
Here in Australia in our university years a mate bought a late 60s Fiat 124 Sport Coupe. It was a fantastic looking car and drove beautifully. I never saw a Spider here. However, over the years Fiat here also got a bad reputation for rusting and they seemed to fade into the fog. Alpha was the same. It was a long long time before they reappeared, but I still remember the look of that mate's car.
Don't know why this showed up on my you tube page but my Dad had a spider, he loved that little car, it was green, and i remember the wood dash and steering wheel.
One of the most thrilling rides I ever had was in a Fiat 124 Spyder. Two college friends wanted to see which car would outperform the other. The other guy had a Z-28. I rode in the Fiat on the first run. The 5-speed quickly got up to 95mph on back roads (at night) and it cornered like crazy, leaving the Camaro in the dust! I rode in the Z-28 on the second run. The driver wanted to lose the Fiat rounding a bend at high speed - and totaled the Z-28… Fortunately, we weren’t injured. Never forgot that ride!
I owned both the coupe and the Spider in the past. Both great little cars with amazing overall performance. I never experienced unreliability but a few Italian gremlins in the electrical department. I went to anAlfa Spider later and it had a larger engine of the same or very similar design. Pity Fiat and Alfa had rough times in the US but today, some very racy models are available from both.
One of my neighbors has a Fiat X 1/9 and it still really stands out in a good way as everything you see on the road today is either a huge SUV or a smaller crossover SUV.
I had one for years...loved it. I agree with you beautiful car and a fantastic motor. If l remember correctly it was at the time the only twin overhead cam where you could adjust the valves without removing the cams... brilliant engineering and a amazing time saver. 100,000 miles on this motor before a rebuild was not a unreasonable expectation.
Great video! I would love to try driving one of these cars. I have the latest incarnation of the 124 Spider from 2016 and I would love to compare them. Italian cars are always fun, despite a few 'minor' issues like rusting floor pans etc. Apart from the Fiat I have owned a couple of Alfas with no regrets.
A 1968 was the first car I purchased myself, $200 with a seized engine, new top in the trunk, and managed to get it back on an e4 salary. Biggest regret in auto I have was trading that in on a car with four seats to hold my then three-member family. Ah, what could have been.
I grew up driving my dad's FIAT 131 Mirafiori S 4 door with a 1.8L 4cyl and a 5 speed. So I loved FIATs as a kid. I have an Abarth500 now. But my 1970s convertible is my trusty 1972 Triumph TR6! Thanks for the episode Jack... good stuff as usual.
Not a bad film this time Jack! However the Spider was never ”meant to look like a Ferrari” but actually a re-used Chevrolet Corvette Rondine concept design Tom did earlier. Its also generally accepted since long ago that most 124 Spiders are better drives than the Alfa Spider, by anyone in the know. My favourite would be either the 124 Abarth Rally with independent suspension & 16V (where that 037/Delta S4/131 Abarth engine was first seen) or the 1985 Spidereuropa Volumex, with the same supercharged 2-litre as in the Argenta VX. The Lampredi DOHC was also very innovative & simple. # 1st twincam with cambelt # 1st engine with valve shims ON TOP of the valve buckets, so no more need to remove cams for valve adjustment. Both these innovations soon became std in modern engines. Lampredi also did the SOHC engine (for 128-127-Ritmo-Uno and all the way up to Tipo) AND the big V6 for Fiat 130.
You got it right, Jack. Here in the States, Fiat was cursed by the three R's - Reliability, Rust and Restricted performance by emissions hardware. I never even considered a Fiat before I picked-up a Datsun 2000 Sports Roadster (aka Fairlady). The Datsun's suspension was not nearly as sophisticated as the Fiat, but I enjoyed reliability and the few parts I ever needed were very inexpensive. I added a DeLong camshaft with re-jetted SU carbs and it was as quick as a 911 of the day in a straight line, but couldn't stay with them in the corners.
I compare my British and Italian roadsters like this. In a Spitfire I came out of tight corners grinning, as in my FIAT Spider 2000. In the Spit it was because despite the cars best efforts I was still alive. In the Spider it was because you point at a comet, smash the accelerator and come out effortlessly.
I was in high school when these came out. Here in Texas the main competitor was the MGB, and there were still a lot Of triumphs, including the TR three that a friend of mine had. What I remember so plainly was the ease at which the top could be raised compared to the British sports cars. It was a dream. Thanks for featuring it on here.
What a beautiful car Jack!.... I don't know how you do it getting to drive all of these amazing car's, a lot of the cars you've driven recently I've never seen on the road! Excellent stuff as always buddy 👏👍
I worked on those wonderful little spiders wayyyyyyy back. Loved driving them. You are correct on the ride height that ruined the look. But all together a cool sports car. I also liked the X1/9. My very first car was an 850 spider that I drove for 3 years in college.
I had two 124 sport coupes over the years, the first as my second ever car following a wheezy Triumph Dolomite 1850. It was like driving a Ferrari Junior in comparison. Brilliant cars way ahead of contemporaries at the time. The first one had Radbourne Racing badging which seemed legitimate, the most elegant Cromadora alloys, went like stink and sounded wonderful - happy days 😁👍
Lovely little car. One of those that you can have so much fun in and, not break the national speed limit. It's been a while since I've owned a car that you're not slamming on the brakes, everytime you approach a tight bend, reason being you've floored it on the short preceeding straight and youre suddenly going far far too fast. That's actually not fun! Very few of us are racing drivers and, being able to enjoy a car whilst revving it out, is not very common nowadays. You looked like a Cheshire cat Jack 😂
I had a 74 124 sedan with the 1.6 and an automatic. Your description of the 124’s strengths and weaknesses is spot on. These are very rare in the US at this point because many states here had a crush order once they hit the junk yard. They typically had rusted too far to remain safe. But that car has ruined me for the fun factor and driving dynamics. The manual steering and feedback is sublime, when it ran. After all, it became known as Fix It Again Tony for good reason.
My dad bought a 124 coupe in about 1970. I had been driving for about 1 year. Compared to American walruses, that Fiat was amazing. So nimble. Too bad it rusted so soon. The side marker lights fell out after only about 3 Wisconsin winters.
Owned a 1972 124 spider in college. Great car, even with the heavy US spec bumpers. I remember 2nd gear as brilliant and the top could be raised and lowered while sitting in the drivers seat….couldn’t do that with the MG cars I had! Now in my advanced years looking to get my hands on another. Great review, Jack, and thanks for a tremendously entertaining channel!
Obviously different paint, undercoating, body galvinization, or hot dip, metal thickness, sheet metal alloy content, sealant & gasketing (especially for openings), drainage holes, and myriad of testing & specifications, at say Ford, or Volvo, than Fiat. THAT SAID, there was the Big 3 in the US (choices). Fiat is like or was like the PHONE COMPANY in Italy. Had much of the market sewn up.
If anything, the 124 Spider kept FIAT in the US. It had a long 15 year run, and then a few more years after that with Pininfarina. As amazing as it was in 1968, FIAT never innovated a good replacement. They could have easily beat Mazda to the punch for the modern interpretation of the roadster, but they didn't even try. The Spider's replacement didn't come for another 10 years and it was FWD sadness. They've done the same thing again. The new 500 was very popular, but they never made a new model, and they haven't sold it for four years now. Supposedly the new-new 500 will be here next year (for a five year gap) but only in limited markets. It's not going to be nearly as popular as it's predecessor.
01:42 You show here the Abarth, which had an independent suspension in the rear, not the live axle. In contemporary tests the IRS did not show up so nice (it was made for rally sport). Back in the days I planned an Alfa 2.0 fastback, but when I had the chance to compare these cars driving, I noticed the same what you mentioned: the FIAT has the much better chassis. I had two of these here in Germany, a 1973 BS1 (1.6l, 110hp, changed to a 1.8l Lancia Beta engine, which was quite a challenge) and later on a 1976 CS0 re-import from the US (original with a horrible low compression 1.8l, modified with a very nice 2.0l with much power). Wonderful cars, easy to tweak suspensionwise (watch it: never make it too hard!), nice to work on and fairly cheap in the 80ties and 90ties. Unreliable? No. Not if you put a little care into it.
I had a 124 Sport Coupe when I was living in Germany 76-77. Was a blast to drive on the autobahn and open it up. Couldn't bring it to the states when I came home but your piece really brings back memories.
I owned a 1970 in 1973-74.I sold it to get an E- Type.BIG MISTAKE 💰💰💰💰!!!. I'm now almost 70 and I'm gonna get another one ( Fiat 124 sport spider).I might get an MGB too!!!
The engine was the first twin cam production engine to feature a toothed belt The first toothed belt ever used was on a Glas, but that was single OHC. Another first was that the 124 Coupe had a glued in windscreen which was a production first but had its problems. I had a 1975 Coupe and the windscreen leaked a bit. One day in about 1983 I had to do an emergency stop and the car stopped on a sixpence. The windscreen kept going, slid down the bonnet and i ran over it. The glue was perfect but the steel aperture was loke a row of rotten teeth. I loved the way the 124 drove so much I actually spent my summer hols welding in a new flange ...... a mammoth task involving removing and replacing the headlining and dashboard. Apart from the plastic wheelarch liners up front the car was as usual undersealed with pasta and had no paint on invisible sections. The rear wheelarches rotted .... 128 front wings were good for profile and I folded up sills onlu to find that they were banana shaped. The front wishbones rotted and the damper mounts disappeared. Lada components were 100% better.. A truly great engine, transmission and suspension system just in need of a good set of clothes..
The 124 had nothing to do with the downfall of fiat. The fact that fiats were notoriously unreliable, disolved in water like Alka seltzer, and had service depts, and parts availability that were absolutely horrendous,coupled with the arrival of Datsun and Toyota, and the emergence of bmw.put paid to Italian, french, and many British cars as well
I always liked FIAT's in the US. I had a 69 850 Spyder which was a ton of fun. Later a 1981 Fiat 131 which was very nice but leaked oil profusely. We would laugh at the Fix-It-Again-Tony comments but they were sort of true. I always carried my tools with me. On a quiet morning, if you listened carefully, I think you could hear them rust. ;-)
Here in the states, I've owned 914's, 944's and a 1.8 litre 124. By far my favorite. It was the one car that felt that it was built around me. I'd like to find one again some day now that I have a garage.
My dad owned an early seventies model. I still remember sitting in the passenger side seat playing with the floppy toggle switches on the dash. He drove me from our home in VA to my paternal great grandparents home in NY when I was very young. Made me fall in love with cars early.
This was in no way responsible for Fiat's eventual failure in the US market. The roadster market in the US was moribund by the early 1980s and even stalwart MG, who founded the genre in the US, threw in the towel. Fiat's dealer network was small and scattered. The cars were unreliable and spare parts expensive and difficult to come by. Servicing had to be done by specialists who charged through the nose. Gone were the days when Americans accepted the eccentricities of European cars. Driving was becoming a chore and there was waning interest in "weekend toys" like the Fiat. Long commutes had become the norm and nobody, enthusiast or not, enjoyed sitting on the hard shoulder waiting for rescue every 6 weeks because something as simple as a fuel pump failed to operate consistently. Japan's safety and emission laws more or less mirrored the USA's and cars like the Mazda RX-7 arrived tailor-made to American conditions. Jaguar and the Germans continued with success because their prestige offset the cost of owning them. Fiat failed in the US because it did not have viable volume models to sustain its US operation. The Ritmo/Strada and 131/Brava were beset by rust and reliability issues and were no match for the Japanese. Keep in mind that Fiat were on the edge in Europe as well and was only saved by the Uno. The X1/9 and Spider continued under an independent distributor for some years, but by the late 1980s it was obvious that the French and Italians simply no longer had a place in the US market.
My father owned a 1.6 90hp 125 and his mate a 125S with the 105hp Lampredi engine. I loved this car ❤️ If you could do more Fiat, Alfa, Lancia you would do my cuore italiano a big favor…😇
In 1972 my girlfriend at the time had a Fiat Spyder. An older one at the time in red. We decided to move across Canada to Vancouver in March and drove the Spyder 3000 plus miles through the American badlands and the Canadian Rocky Mountains. Many adventures on that trip but not an issue with the car. Good memories of the car and the girlfriend! Cheers 🇨🇦
Thanks for reviewing the timelessly beautiful car I lusted after as a teenager but wouldn't have bought even had I been able to afford it because of its reliability issues. There was a good reason why Fiat became an acronym for ' fix it again Tony.'
I’ve had a ‘72 128SL with the revolutionary transaxle design and an I-4 1.3 that did well except occasionally burning through points. Always carried a spare and gauge. I had an ‘82 X/19 which handled well and sounded magnificent and was otherwise only behind an ‘80 Spitfire for worst built vehicle I’ve owned. And I own an ‘80 Spider 2000 with fuel injection on that little jewel of a Lampredi plant which may be the most fun and (for its age and the era) reliable sports car I’ve owned. FIAT never built up a dealer/mechanic/parts network in the US and that more than two other things cost them the US market. Your American mechanic treated that alloy block like a cast iron and often did more harm than good. Remaining reasons are building small cleverly designed, sporty handling cars just heavily built enough to do the job. One thing goes wrong and isn’t fixed, you start a cascade of problems. And Americans don’t drive the way these cars were built to be driven. Inspect the car before starting it for fluids and lights and so on. Start it AND WARM IT. The have narrow oil ports and cold oil won’t flow until the engine is at operating temp. Highway speed cold and you can damage the engine. And rev it hard, shifting at 5000 rpm or more to gain the power band. That sporty drive spills your coffee, which you have no cup holder for anyway and gets a bit much after 3 or 4 hours driving. Where my F150 can be driven in cruise for 8 hours at 75 with no real discomfort.
Many years ago, I owned an Alfa Duetto (Boat tail) Spider and later a Fiat 124 Spider. I loved them both. As much as the Alfa's design was a true head turner, to me, the Fiat just looked somehow more "right." It was graceful, understated, even elegant. Both were enormous fun to drive. Both sounded terrific, although the Fiat was noticeably louder. As stated by others, the soft tops on both could be put up or down on a whim. Wonderful cars! Oh, and I was a young man when I owned them, so there's that. Thanks for uncovering these warm memories.
My red 1969 124AC 5 speed coupe was a gift to myself for returning alive from the VN War. My wife and I drove it all over California for years. I bought a 69 124 Wagon as our grocery-getter. Both are amazing little cars. Like many commenters, the Fiat helped me learn proper driving as opposed to "steering" an American car. I learned how to work on cars with the two 124s. Changing a timing belt was a snap, I crafted my own tool to keep the cams indexed properly when I removed the old belt. Throw on the new belt, release the tensioner and check alignment, easy-peasy. That 1438 cc motor just loved to rev, especially when playing tag with 914-4s and various other Euro boxes. My tail lights were frequently seen by opponents. She rode on wide Sain 6-spoke alloys with slightly increased offset, so handled sweetly. Very easy to drive fast. The Coupe's demise was the wooptee doos in the orange groves of Southern Calif. It was a delight, blasting through the groves churning up a roostertail of dirt and dust. Ultimately, I found cracks in the sub frame, so I had to say goodbye to the Coupe. I kept the little wagon for another 10 years. The 124s were followed by a 131 Wagon and a 131 Super Brava 2.0L. The 131 Wagon didn't last long as it was possessed by an electrical demon. It was a beautiful car, but the bulkhead pass-through harness and connectors were severely damaged (previous owner) and Fiat was in decline in the US, so it was impossible to get replacements. I put 150,000 miles on the Brava and sold it to a work associate. My family needed a larger car. I miss all of my Fiats.
Ha* Orange grove wooptee doos ~ I occasioned to take my convertible around a Seattle motorcycle dealer mx test track... Inspired by a peers regular attacks in his 128 on the muddy pastoral neighborhood track. His motto was, 'The best way to keep a Fiat running is to beat the $#!+ out of it!' Very cool to find a VN veteran went your direction and not met an untimely end in a muscle car. Salut!
All spot-on, Jack. I had a 1971 1600cc 124 Spider, here in the U.S. God, it was _wonderful_ - when it ran properly. The 1600cc engine did have enough power to bring the tail-end into play, with a strong top-end surge. As a very young, inexperienced, and underfunded DIY owner, I could never really catch up with my used example's numerous issues. We put a lot of miles on our cars here, often in pretty terrible conditions which run the full gamut, and the FIAT just wasn't up to that. Mechanically, it was good, really, but _all_ the electrics gave never-ending trouble. Still, I absolutely loved it.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Doesn’t look like a live axle in that drawing.
Drawing is of the Abarth version which does have I dependent rear suspension.. didn’t notice when I used it. The normal car has a solid axle.
Everything about this image is wrong, at the back of the car. McPherson Struts ? NO ! CV joints on a solid axle ?
Certainly not. This car mocked its big brother, the Alfa Duetto, in many ways. Neither Italian car group ever made it to Prime Time, here in America. We could never get the parts or the manuals to repair them. Make one sequential service mistake and tragedy could be the result. The beauty contestant simply couldn't match the image, in practice.
I picked up on that as well. The 124s I worked on in the '80s did have live axles (I replaced more than a few third members.) Marelli ignition and electricals. The ones I encountered (I worked at an independent shop near the beach in San Diego) were not unreliable, but I did hear that FIAT stood for Fix It Again, Tony, and Feeble Italian Attempt at Transportation. I did like working on the dual-cam engines. The single cam X1/9? Not so much.
It is!
They were easy to get parts for, here at least. Not hard to work on. Manuals were easy to find.
My girlfriend in college had a steel blue '79 spider. About a month into dating her, she asked me if I'd like to drive it. I sheepishly admitted I didn't know how to drive a stick. Instead of dumping me on the spot, she said "There's an empty parking lot over there. I'll teach you." So I married her. One day, in '88, I went out to the parking lot at work to climb into my Datsun but it wasn't there. In its place was a red '80 spider 2000 with a note from my wife saying "Now maybe you'll stop borrowing mine." I drove that car until 2004 when she suggested I might think about a new car since the old Fiat had about 200,000 miles on it. "Yeah, I guess I should get a sensible car finally, huh?" She said "You should get that Lotus Elise you're always talking about." So I did. I still have it and her.
You found the jackpot bro! Sounds awesome!
Such a beautiful story ❤
I always had to choose between my girl n my car . I always chose my girl so I have no car that I could be proud of. Wish I met a girl that loved my car ❤
You found the perfect soulmate.
YOUR soulmate 🫡 Wish the best to you and your family.
Wow, what an awesome story. It’s a shame that FIAT, Alfa, and Lancia didn’t do better in the US as they all made some incredible cars. I still see a few Alfa Giulias (even the quadrifoglias) every week and I think it’s the most beautiful modern 4 door for sale, much better than the BMW, Audi, and Mercedes you see all the time. Not to mention all the ugly crossover SUV that everyone wants to own now
I'm 72, I owned three 124s and a 131. First 124 was in college in 1972 after a horrible experience with a Triumph TR-3. Bought a Pontiac Trans Am for kicks and it was great until the gas crisis hit. Sold it and bought another 124 and it got me through the gas fiasco while enjoying the commutes. Sold that 124 to work in the Virgin Islands. When those jobs finished up I bought the next 124. Yet another good, reliable car. After a year or so boredom set in when I bought a used Corvette on impulse. It didn't take long before I got tired of fixing its problems, and it had already broken down once with a new girlfriend in it (can't have that). Falling back on experience, another 124 and it too was fun and reliable. Owned that car for two summers until I got another job in the Virgin Islands. When that job finished up I bought the 131 from a friend and it was fun as well, but in a different way especially during the winters. I owned that car for several years until the first unusual problem occurred. A small bundle of wires routed over the steering column rubbed through and caused several fuses to short out. That was the first time I had to leave ANY of my four Fiats in a shop for a few days. Other than routine maintenance for the most part, I enjoyed my Fiat experiences. I can't be the only one with good things to share!
I like your alternation with Fiats and jobs in the Virgin Islands.
I love that the video length is 14:38 - it's the exact displacement of the original Fiat 124 motor 1438cc. I own a 1969 Fiat 124 Spider and I love it.
Former owner here, of both the Spider and coupe versions. They were both great driving cars, as he says. One minor addition: the handle on the convertible top was visible behind him; you could literally just reach back (when stopped, of course) and pull the top up and latch it, a masterpiece of lightweight and easy-to-use design.
Indeed, I owned on too it was a GREAT sports car! FIAT won an engineering award for the rag top design that was a one handed operation unlike anything from England
The soft top fitted to the Alfa Romeo spider was similar - from a seated position 'reach back for the handle and close' - wonderful design.
Unlike the Alfa, the Fiat had glass rear quarter windows. The Alfa just had a big blind spot!
I bought a serviceable 1976 Navy Blue Spyder with Red seats in 1988. To increase MPG, I rigged the carb accelerator pump to not cut in until the last 10% of throttle length. This adjustment corrected a full throttle that was too rich. MPG went from 20 to 22mpg or so. Not bad and the engine just ran better. Fastest speed she ever reached was 93 MPH along a 2-lane country highway where it blew the universal joint, rap rap rap to a quick stop. I wrapped the U-joint in a rag and limped a few miles to the nearest garage and paid to replace the U-joint plus tip for working on Sunday. Fun car to drive 4 sure.
@@frankhoward7645
😱🤣
I could write a book on the 124 Spider, I have owned a slew of them and have a 1977 model in my garage waiting time for a restoration. Much of what you have said is spot on. In 1981 Fiat pulled out of the US, leaving Malcolm Bricklin to market the 124 spider and X1/9 under their builder's names. The 124 survived till the 1985.5 model as the Pininfarina Azzurra and the X as the Bertone X1/9 kept going till 1989.
The engine, as you say, is quite brilliant. Revvy and "square" it has a sound that, when uncorked, is a heady combination of Ferrari shriek and Chevrolet V8 thump. This is due to the rod length and stroke in the later cars being very close the the Chevy 350 in size. The 5 speed is very light, but also quite fragile, 2nd gear porsche style syncros do not like to be manhandled.
The biggest issues with the Spider though is America itself. Even today, there are no stand alone Fiat dealers. They were always tacked on to other more successful dealerships. Thus you might get a Cadillac dealer also selling Fiats as an "accessory". This would include those mechanics who were more at home wrenching on American Iron, than more tender Italian tin. While the rust issue can never be overstated, the rest was due to most American's ambivalence to Maintenance. The 124 engine used a dual point system to help start, the timing belt needed replacing every 2 years or 20,000 miles, and fiat did some odd things with grounds. Quite a few owners did not see the need to replace a "fan belt" every two years, killing many of those willing little engines. The electricals ran to "common grounds" that when disturbed, could cause hard starting and seemingly unrelated electrical failures. (playing with the taillights could disturb the ground for the fuel pump).
One thing you did not touch on, the 124 had one of the best soft tops in the business until the MX5 Miata came along. It could be lowered from the driver's seat with just two clips and pushing it back. Raising was just as easily done over the shoulder, but could break the back of the seat. The seats are sublime. I am currently using one as an office chair, bolted to the base of a once uncomfortably cheap chair.
I can only assume I have outed myself as quite the fan of these great little cars.
A new timing belt every 20,000 miles? That makes zero sense. What were they thinking? And thanks for explaining about the grounds, too. Another "what were they thinking?" question. Had to be stupid bean counters getting in the way. Those two items ruined an amazing car. Fiat- Fix It Again Tony. But the top was unbelievable easy to lower. MGB or TR6 tops were terrible (Healey's weren't too bad), you almost needed two people to lower them. Thanks again for posting, you're the reason I read the comment sections, to get the real scoop.
Thanks for this and defintely true on the soft top operation… should have included this in the video!!
I had one when I was living in Northern California and the local dealer for them was in fact a Cadillac dealer.
@@markdavis9148 Luckily, the belt replacement was an easy one hour job that I would do in my driveway and that didn’t need any special tools. Not something you could say about the rubber cam belt Ferraris!
@sailing spark, I would love to hear more of your acquaintances with many 124 Spiders sir!
I like that your ads are the absolute minimum .. kudos to you (also love your channel).
Great Video!
I still have the 1978 that my parents bought new in San Diego. It was handed down to me in 1992. Looks and drives like new. Just yesterday I had it out and about enjoying the drive. It's been a fun car.
I agree with you comments regarding the ride height and one of these days I am going to drop it 2 inches to put it down where it was originally intended. There are two companies here in Texas that supply every part you would ever need for the classic spider, so getting the parts is just a day or two wait for the postman.
A major culprit with no-starts was the dual point system. They constantly required adjusting and there was a trick to doing it right. You see, one set of points was the "starting" set, and the other was the "running" set. You had to jumper a relay under the glove-box to properly adjust each set.
Reliability has been quite impressive since I deleted the dual point system and added a magnetic pickup in the distributor. I would not hesitate to take the car on a 1000+ mile trip, which I have done.
Thanks again!
What are the names of these two companies from Texas?
Sorry, Jack, but with those beautiful clean lines and thin pillars of its glasshouse, the 124 Sport Coupe was one of the most stunning cars of its time. IMO it still is.
This was the car that allowed me to find out, as an American, what things like handling, maneuverability, braking and steering were all about as compared to the usual muscle cars back in the 70s. A friend had one for a while. As beautiful as the car was, it needed constant repairing. Suddenly, the distributor rotor would crack as well as a lot of other things. It stranded him on several occasions. He got rid of it later in the year he bought it. Replaced it with an RX-7...I think it was the long term reliability here that cost Fiat it's market share...
Ditto. I owned several Coupes in New Zealand. Fun. A convertible I bought in USA wasn't maintained; needed SO much repaired. Coupes handled great but I found the 1.4 underpowered. 1600 should have been the minimum. i'd have loved an 1800, and if 2L ? Wow !!! Yes RX7 was scary fast. A quantum leap in every way !!!!! Freaking awesome car
Long-term reliability...and yet Land Rover exists. It's a conundrum. At least the Fiat is easy enough to work on for anyone with a clue. Many American cars at the time were about as reliable as a Fiat, but that didn't stop them from selling. I think the excuse then was that garages wouldn't work on "them 4in cars" so people didn't want to risk buying one.
@@stevenbeall9637 US cars late '60s-early '70s were extremely reliable. I daily drive still unrestored examples.
@@stevenbeall9637 - Yeah, the old "america is good, foreign is bad" prejudice.
@@stevenbeall9637 I love Land rovers, they need minor but constant work...not understood in a world of convenience
My father had the red 1972 124 Spider and this was the first car I drove, legally, when I turned 15 a few years later. What a great car during that time. My first car was used Fiat 128 sedan. That 124 was fantastic. Say what you want, I drive a 991.2 turbo in Germany currently, but that 124 was great. I would still by one today....
Thanks for posting this guys!
Had one of these in the 90s. Loved it. Sure, got all the "Fix It Again Tony" jokes from my friends, but I never really had any problems. Was going to restore it properly, but life got in the way. Wish I still had it. Thanks for the memories.
This is the very car that I enjoyed tossing into the scary two-lane roads in Italy and France back in the early '70's. "Power-to-weight" is where the real driving fun is in my experience. It was at least as much fun as a well sorted Mini Cooper S. But then I get great pleasure from getting this sort of engine 'up on the cam'. Your growing connoisseurship of the driving experience has put words to my memories of this absolutely classic machine. Great big 'well done' Jack!
I had a '71 124 Coupe in 1977. 1608cc engine. Absolutely loved it! Rust was a big problem but Fiat also made the mistake of partnering with Chrysler dealerships in a lot of cases, and they mistreated customers. Truly a shame.
I don't respond to videos that often, but this time I have to. Awesome to see 'my' car on this channel. Been watching every video for years now as the Italian models get much love and appreciation from you. This particular video shows exactly why I've bought my red '79 Fiat 124 Spider 2.0! Keep it up Giacomo (Jack)! Really enjoying your content!
So, so happy, Jack, that you did this review. Between my father and I we had six to eight of these...I can't actually remember now. It's the only car I drove for the first 11 years that I had a license. I didn't want anything else. Compared to British sports cars of the time, it had four wheel discs, 5-speed trans, decent rear seat room (for a small sports car), decent trunk ("boot", if you must), aluminum (really...aluminium?"), head, belt-driven, twin cam, high-revving, pretty bulletproof engine, and a great top (sigh..."hood"), that really did not leak and could be raised an lowered in seconds, from the driver's seat, with one hand...and they were cheap! I do not think it was reliability that killed off Fiat here so much as the rust problem...and it was a big problem. But 124 Spiders taught me about car control and car repair.
As far as the chassis integrity and stiffness, I can assure you that it is possible to swerve to avoid a car facing you in your lane, correct into a huge, buried boulder on the verge, reset the entire, left, front wheel assembly back 18", pop the car up into a 30º angle, hit a telephone pole, move the pole back from its location two feet, then put said pole in the middle of the engine bay...and walk out of the car with just a teeny scratch on your left knee. Quite the strong, little thing.
Oh, and it is possible to turn them over. Ask Dear Old about that one.
I and I suspect many more of us would love to hear far more of your reminiscences of the Fiat 124 Spider sir!
@@samrodian919 Thank you. I have added a bit more.
This brings back memories.
A friend of mine imported a Spider from the USA to Belgium, restored it, de-bumpered it, so it would even look more like a little Ferrari.
He fitted a 2-litre injection version of this engine, out of a Fiat Argenta.
It was a fun little car, even more fun when that engine was swapped for a Delta Integrale engine.
That was quite the mad ride!
the 16v head from the Integrale will bolt to the 1800 and 2000 132 series engines. The only reason it does not really fit the spider as the head is slightly longer at the back. You either need to notch the firewall to fit or move the engine forward some and destroy the handling.
The trick is to notch the firewall and then fit the transmission from the Fiat 131 racing, it is a much heavier duty unit than the rather fragile 124 transmission.
Is it possible to fit the next generation engines, like a Twin Spark from an Alfa 156?
In Germany some people installed Ford 2.8 V6 engines to these Fiat spiders or (best solution an Alfa Romeo 2.5 GTV 6 engines with Alfa 6 Transmission) original Fiat engines werent bad either if tuned properly, you could turbo them so over 200HP
Many times a small car and power make for a great deal of fun. Without having to go dangerously fast. And I love going fast, but a combo of a little power and nice handling is difficult to beat.
The Fiat twin cam and the single overhead cam in the 128 were the first cars America had seen with a timing belt. It was supposed to be replaced at 25000 mile intervals but somehow that info rarely made it to the eyes of the owners, many of whom were young people buying their first cars. When that belt stripped, as usually happened on a cold morning at start-up the pistons and valves would meet up and the car would not run again until the bent valves were replaced. This was a rite of passage for nearly all new Fiat owners and it didn't take long for the word to spread that the cars would need major repairs before they even reached 50K Between that and the rusty car buy back fiasco of the seventies and Fiat gave up on the US market for a looong time.
Being an American who lived through the 70's -- and even once drove a US version of the Spyder -- it didn't cause Fiat to leave the US. In fact the Spyder (and the X-1/9) both contined to be sold in the US for a few more years under the Bertone and Peninfarina name. It was Fiat's other cars which torpedoed the brand. Fiat couldn't maintain their sales network on just the sports cars. It also was getting very expensive to meet the US pollution and crash safety requirements. The costs of these certifications was being spread over a shrinking fleet of models. They could be sold as Bertones/Peninfarinas because they could operate under the reduced requirements of a "specialist" manufacturer. These required fewer cars to be crashed for study and shorter emissions tests.
So rest assured, the pretty Spyder didn't kill Fiat in the US, the government bureaucrats did!
We can take shallow solace in the fact that it was done for our own good. 😢
True enough on Fiat's other cars. I think I saw one Strada/Ritmo in my life. A few 131s, and more than a few 128s. The later cars did not sell well at all.
This is truly an icon in sports cars, beautiful,pleasing to look at,not powerful but enough to please,thank you Fiat.
I moved to Italy in 2010 and bought a 1968 124 Spider in green in 2013. There was nothing like zooming along the country roads of NE Italy in this light, nippy little softtop. But my wife wouldn't get into it because there were no seat belts, and I couldn't justify owning a car that got so little use. I sold it two years later for more than I'd paid for it, the only car I've ever had that I can say that about.
I woulda sold a wife like that instead of the car in a heartbeat.
I so very, very nearly bought one twenty years ago and rather wish I did. However, I bought another Lampredi-powered car - an X1/9 - so I can’t really complain. A great video, Jack; I personally prefer it when you keep it real, rather than reviewing unobtainium cars that most of us couldn’t even aspire to.
Had to watch this again. The sound of the engine through the shift ratios was ingrained in me, so deeply, that when I went out of my last 124 and into an Alfa GTV-6, I had trouble shifting at the right time. My brain was programmed for the 124 and the sound of an inline four. It's so nice to hear that again. BTW, you can rev past redline with no harm. The engine's ancillary stuff breaks but the engine proper really does not. Tuner and racer Al Cosentino, who ran the parts supplier, FAZA, I think from Florida, would run the 1600 to 8000rpm with no problems. If I remember, the comment was, "...can take a steady diet of 8000rpm without fail..." With an ANSA on them, they sounded wonderful. There is no rev limiter so the occasional errant foot did wind them up to lofty levels at times. I would love to drive one again (actually, of several recurring dream themes, driving my 124's pops up often).
The most modifications I ever managed was on one of my 1972 1600's. A set of Konis, springs, an ANSA exhaust, and SUPER WIDE rear tires...185's. I was cool.
Funny you mentioned dreams. I’ve had a recurring dream over the years that I still had my old ‘69 124 sport coupe and it was hidden away in the backyard or something and I’d forgotten about it. There was something about that car that got under my skin. I’ve had a bunch of sporty European cars since then but that one was special.
@@MrLou501 Is that what it is? Early days of driving and all of what I learned of how to handle, trail brake, threshold braking, at at 45mph. Top down in November from Philadelphia to Boston. Jamming three large friends full of pizza in the 124, top up, raining and it broke down. Expertly performed field repairs. It all happened first with my Fiats. I miss them.
I remember in grade 12 in Canada all the cool kids had Camaro's, Mustangs etc. except one kid who had a red 124 spider and I was green with envy. Thanks for the great share jack, lovely to see that car again.
What a great review! I drove a 1971 (1608 "BS" model) spider in my college years. It was purchased as a 9-year old barn-find "Fix it again Tony" special for $100 in 1980 at a garage sale. I restored the car in 1983, rebuilding the engine, transmission, interior, exterior, and wiring, and drove it until I had to move away for college in 1987. It was a car that never let me down, and the car that on reflection many years later made me decide to sell both of my 1990 NA Miatas. While the NA Miata's handled much better compared to the BS spider, the driving experience was just boring, and the cockpit had an unfortunate pocket of dead air behind the windshield that made top-down driving no better than with the factory hardtop. The 124, top down or top up was a great place to be.
I was never fortunate enough to travel in a Fiat 124 Spider, but a high school mate of mine's parents owned a 124 Coupe, and although not as stylish as the Spider, I could tell from a passenger's point of view it handled well, and the interior with its wood on the dashboard and the Italian panache was just so different from the run-of-the-mill vehicles of the time (1974). Another great video Jack!
My sister had a '72 for a long time and her boyfriend had (I think) a '78. Later, a work friend of mine had a late '70s model that had been handed down by his mom. They were surprisingly good and reliable cars, which isn't a word usually associated with Fiats, and they had more room than you would have expected. My sister's '72 was pretty beat up and worn out, but it never failed her. Lots of fun!
Having owned 2 Spiders and a Coupe, I can say that for maximum acceleration, one can safely shift at 500 RPM above redline, and that 5th gear is too close to 4th. One of the things I use to do to when getting onto a freeway back when the national speed limit was 55 MPH in the US was to accelerate in 2nd to about 7200 RPM, around 58 MPH, then shift into 5th. Another interesting point is that they had a mechanical only ignition advance, no additional vacuum, so I got almost the same millage driving at 60 as I got one day when I woke up late to get to the airport and was driving 100 to 110 most of the way. A noticeable improvement in them is to use a specific manual gearbox oil, GL-4 like "Redline MTL" as opposed to 80W90 differential GL-5 oil in the transmission.
In 1979 a friend "gifted" me a 1974 Fiat 124 Spider. It was beat to shit. It needed a clutch and first gear. Replaced the clutch and first gear. When I did, there was only 1 bell housing bolt left holding the transmission to the engine. I also made new rocker panels and fixed the left fender enough to hold the headlight on that side so that it pointed straight ahead instead of being aimed at the ground.
I learned stick on that car and had an absolute blast driving it. It was like driving a roller skate.
About 1 year after I had it, my friend sent me a recall notice he had gotten from Fiat.
They were buying back most of the cars they sent recall notices to as they had a reputation for rusting so badly that they were in danger of losing the suspension if you hit a bump hard enough. They bought mine back for 2105 dollars. I hated to lose it but it WAS an accident waiting to happen.
The Fiat techs (directly from Italy) took photos of the undercarriage and the decision was final. it was one of the worst examples of undercarriage corrosion they had seen.
Funny thing was, even the ones that were in unusually good condition only fetched $75 more than my rust bucket.
I would love to have one in really good condition these days but they're a little hard to find.
I bought mine 8 years ago in good condition from a 2nd owner fir $2300. Paid an extra $200 for an aftermarket hardtop I have never fitted to the car.
A parts car now runs around that price. A good example of you can find one $7000 to $10000. A restored around $20000 and up.
Not selling though even knowing this since it’s easily the most fun and pleasant sports car I’ve ever owned.
I presently own 2 of these spiders, an earlier 1978 and a later 1978. I have an uprated 2L engine, dual webers, high compression pistons, ceramic coating header and upgraded tranny. The car is a blast to drive, with about 135 HP. Considering I also own and cherish 1965 Mustang fastback, I really enjoy the 124 spider, easy to work on and most importantly great cheap fun in the summer. The car was also interestingly the first mass produced car with a rubber timing belt.😊
I credit my B-series 124 Coupe with turning me into a bad driver... sort of.
It was so rewarding when you drove it well, but it was also very forgiving when you drove it poorly. Driving other people's cars I'd find myself in sphincter-clenching moments that the 124 would never have given me.
And I couldn't really complain about rust or reliability issues with mine.
It’s one of those beautiful Italian convertibles I always longed for and wanted but never had the balls to buy. What a machine ….I’m straight on to “car and classic” to see if my balls will let me buy one now. Brilliant review as always Jack.
Be very careful to check where the front cross member bolts into the chassis rails. This was a known weak point as the bolts were seldom retorqued which lead to flexing, and cracking of the rails. Sadly a lot of owners just welded them into place which meant wheel alignment was then impossible. I owned one, in Scotland, back in the 90s and learned the hard way....Very easy to mod the engines though!
@@juliansudano4453 Thanks so much Julian , I’ll be sure to check if I can find a good…they are a rare beast nowadays.
really referencing your balls a bunch here bro lolol
It's a pretty little car as most 1960's Italian vehicles were, but I would rather have an Alfa Romeo Spyder with the 1750 engine.
When compared to post 2004 ('young-timer') old German vehicles that appear to have engines fitted with lots of 'shoe-horns', and complete with dodgy 'breaky-breaky' plastics - a 124 Spider is euipped with simple mechanical systems and lots of space to work in - put simply - a delight to work on. The 124 with the 1438cc engine is a plessure to drive, whilst the later 1608cc (or slightly later 1592cc) equipped car is perhaps the 'Goldilocks' version.
Not sure where you are located, however my preference would be for a California based car, as the Californian climate tends to halt its proficiency to rust. I currently have a Californian sourced 124 Spider in my workshop (i.e. storing it for a friend) - and it's rust free condition is truly remarkable.
In the mid/late 70s I had a 1972 1500 Spyder and my best friend had a 1970 124 Coupe. I drove mine twice on 2K mile trips across the US while he drove his 4 times on similar distances. Unfortunately due to Midwest US winter road salt use they both were rusted out by 1980 and sold. The 124 was my first Italian car which was followed by a Lancia, 2 Ferraris and an Alfa!
I love your cheery enthusiasm for the cars.
I had a 1970 124 Sport Coupe with the 1.6 L I bought used in 1975 while a friend had the '69 with the 1.4L. The 1.4 L was far more rev happy and thus gave a much better subjective experience.
However, I was never disappointed with the 1.6 as it was a reliable car for the 6 years I had it.
It is all about balance which the Fiat had in spades.
The failure of Fiat in the US was due to the reputation for unreliability but also the dramatic rise of the Japanese cars. The interiors of my Fiat and my Alfa GTV were demonstrably less durable than the Japanese cars and the need for more regular service and attention to a belt driven camshaft sabotaged the car in a market used to great iron lumps of inattention.
I can only speak for what I know but I don’t see Japanese cars appealing to the same buyer.
FIATS were (and to a degree are) cheerful, quirky and above all fun and stylish cars. You might even call them drivers cars.
Nothing Japanese is or has ever been more than a soulless tool to do a job. They lack style of any kind- except borrowed as with Miata. They lack driver enjoyment in their admittedly well built beige plastic cabins. The engines are technically great innovations on existing tech but choosing between the aria of my ‘’80 Spider and the whine of a Honda is no contest.
I think you're right about the need for re-jetting. I had the 1800cc version in a 124 Sport Coupe and it was probably the sweetest reviest engine I've ever owned. I loved the Sport Coupe for it's engine and incredible handling. Did you know, the main bearings on that engine were the same size or bigger than the 4.2L Jaguar straight six (which I also owned at the time)? Amazing! The brakes were also incredible with the bias valve in the rear that caused the back to hunker down when braking to limit the adverse weight transfer. It was also faster than the 3.0L Capri as I found out with some dodgy road races! Too bad it fell apart with rust. The rust was so severe that it failed its second MOT (4 years old) so badly that it had to be scrapped. A crying shame.
I had a similar experience with 124 sport. Shame about the heavy worm and wheel steering and the rust.
This was one of the most beautiful convertibles ever made
I had an orange one in college. It had two bumps on the engine hood. I loved that car, but local Fiat car service in the mid-west USA was horrible! They put in the replacement radiator valve system upside down, and didn't know it (kind of looked like a heart valve system). I found that out when I sold it. They put a toggle switch on my dash to run the radiator fan as a hack style fix. Loved the video. Made me feel 20 years old again!
The taller 1800/2000 blocks (or earlier w/ dual-carb) reportedly need the two bumps on the hood for clearance. Gonna find out for sure some day...
😮Had 3 124BC s. All nominally 1971. First had 1438cc, second had 1608cc third had 1592cc. All mostly stock until third which got twin 40 IDF s, reasonable autocross cams (don't remember numbers) and raised compression. Added 14inch wheels and 205mm tires. Koni shocks, lowered springs, larger anti sway bar front and added rear antisway bar. Finally ran and handled as good as it looked (all three were red).
FIAT - affectionately known has "Fix It Again Tony" here in the US...back then!
Thanks for this reminder, Jack. I also once owned a blue 1974 Coupe, followed by a red 1976 Spider, both bought new. Neither had air conditioning, naturally, and being assigned as a young military pilot in the hot, humid deep south of the US in 1976, I traded the Coupe for the Spider so I could at least throw down the top (which, I agree, was a marvel of great engineering.) Both were lots of fun, but not very quick. They handled really well however. The vast difference in styling between them reflects the fact that many Bertone designs (Coupe) tended toward the boxy, with lots of hard edges, whereas most Pininfarina designs (Spider) were graceful, smooth and sinuous. They performed pretty much the same. The engineering was miles beyond my first car, an MGB.
I filled all the bosy cavities of the Spider with rust preventative as soon as I bought it, and owned it for 25 years with no rust whatsoever. It did live in the south, however, and never saw real winter weather. It only had lap belts, so I sold it on to another enthusiast before my young son became really aware of it, and wanted it for his own. Instead, he ultimately got a Scion TC with lots of air bags (mom liked that). As pointed out, FIAT really never developed the robust dealer network in the US that might have helped the brand succeed. Alfa is a similar story. Our loss.
The Fiat 124 coupe was designed in house, the Fiat Dino coupe was designed by Bertone.
The cut-away drawing shown at 1:44 is of the homologation special made for Rally use, the FIAT 124 Sport Special, later known as the FIAT 124 Abarth. Independent McPherson strut rear suspension with reversed lower wishbones and a larger engine with fuel injection. Nice car, shame they didn't make it a regular production item. I wonder if anyone makes a replica of that rear end for fitting to your 124 Spider.
I was into these years ago, and I knew of one that used a Ford Sierra diff. I made a jig to convert the Argenta rear axle, to weld new plates to take the 124 locations, as I wanted better gearing for motorway use. The steering on that 1400 was recirculating ball from the original 124 cars, much later ones had rack and pinion. I went from a 1969 Alfa Romeo GTV to a 70s Fiat 124 Coupe, and the handling on the limit was much better on the latter, but the engine on the Alfa was superior. You could swap the cams for the 1608 ones and they used to rev higher and sound great if you fitted the twin IDFs from the earlier model.
Thanks for answering that! I was wondering. He said "live rear axle..." but the diagram on screen showed IRS.
The reversed lower wishbones makes it "Chapman strut" as first used by Lotus.
@@anvilsvs The rear suspension of (for example) the Elan was described as 'Chapman strut'. That had a large-based wishbone that was not reversed. I think the term actually means 'McPherson strut at the rear'.
So, either it's an unwarranted renaming of McPherson's front suspension, or cars like the Porsche Boxster and FIAT X1/9 wear McPherson front and Chapman rear suspension
@@pashakdescilly7517 Chapman strut is a reversed wishbone with a trailing link added.
I was friends with the Fiat 124 designer,
American expatriate Tom Tjaarda (whose father John was himself a well-respected car designer in Detroit). He designed the 124 during his brief time at Pinafarina before he moved on to take over Ghia, where his main claim to fame was the De Tomaso Pantera.
Tom told me he stole the rear end of the 124 directly from one of his previous efforts, the one-off Corvette Rondine show car. Do a Google search on Corvette Rondine and look at the rear 3/4 views. The entire rear end is nearly identical to the 124. (He also used it on his Ferrari 365 California design, which he also did while at Pinafarina).
Fabulous, Fiat,Lotus,TVR to name just a few knew that the key was balance and light weight to brilliant road holding, handling and enjoyable driving, the polar opposite to the dreadful "S.U.V's" and the even worse "crossovers " that are polluting modern car lineups, its such a shame that these dreadful, bloated abominations are so prevalent and with electric versions of the same cr@p we'll never see the likes of this little beauty ever again.
Awesome video. Fun little car. That red colour makes it adorable. Thank you for introducing me to the Lancia Kappa, it is certainly something. Looking forward to the next video. Keep up the good work.
Thanks 🙏!!
Here in Australia in our university years a mate bought a late 60s Fiat 124 Sport Coupe. It was a fantastic looking car and drove beautifully. I never saw a Spider here. However, over the years Fiat here also got a bad reputation for rusting and they seemed to fade into the fog. Alpha was the same. It was a long long time before they reappeared, but I still remember the look of that mate's car.
Don't know why this showed up on my you tube page but my Dad had a spider, he loved that little car, it was green, and i remember the wood dash and steering wheel.
One of the most thrilling rides I ever had was in a Fiat 124 Spyder. Two college friends wanted to see which car would outperform the other. The other guy had a Z-28. I rode in the Fiat on the first run. The 5-speed quickly got up to 95mph on back roads (at night) and it cornered like crazy, leaving the Camaro in the dust! I rode in the Z-28 on the second run. The driver wanted to lose the Fiat rounding a bend at high speed - and totaled the Z-28… Fortunately, we weren’t injured. Never forgot that ride!
I owned both the coupe and the Spider in the past. Both great little cars with amazing overall performance. I never experienced unreliability but a few Italian gremlins in the electrical department. I went to anAlfa Spider later and it had a larger engine of the same or very similar design. Pity Fiat and Alfa had rough times in the US but today, some very racy models are available from both.
In the late 70s/early 80s, there was a project 124 Spider on virtually every block in America. If you think I'm kidding, I'm not.
One of my neighbors has a Fiat X 1/9 and it still really stands out in a good way as everything you see on the road today is either a huge SUV or a smaller crossover SUV.
Great video and what a stunning car, Italian cars of that era were bellissimo!
Beautiful and as a bonus after a few Canadian winters you got a big bucket of rust
I had one for years...loved it. I agree with you beautiful car and a fantastic motor. If l remember correctly it was at the time the only twin overhead cam where you could adjust the valves without removing the cams... brilliant engineering and a amazing time saver. 100,000 miles on this motor before a rebuild was not a unreasonable expectation.
You are right with the alfa twin cam aka bialbero you have to remove the camshafts...
I owned a 124 and loved it! was very reliable and lasted many many years . . . I would love to find another one
Great video! I would love to try driving one of these cars. I have the latest incarnation of the 124 Spider from 2016 and I would love to compare them. Italian cars are always fun, despite a few 'minor' issues like rusting floor pans etc. Apart from the Fiat I have owned a couple of Alfas with no regrets.
My 78 DOES have that additional 10 HP. It's very nice! :-)
A 1968 was the first car I purchased myself, $200 with a seized engine, new top in the trunk, and managed to get it back on an e4 salary. Biggest regret in auto I have was trading that in on a car with four seats to hold my then three-member family. Ah, what could have been.
I grew up driving my dad's FIAT 131 Mirafiori S 4 door with a 1.8L 4cyl and a 5 speed. So I loved FIATs as a kid. I have an Abarth500 now. But my 1970s convertible is my trusty 1972 Triumph TR6! Thanks for the episode Jack... good stuff as usual.
Not a bad film this time Jack! However the Spider was never ”meant to look like a Ferrari” but actually a re-used Chevrolet Corvette Rondine concept design Tom did earlier. Its also generally accepted since long ago that most 124 Spiders are better drives than the Alfa Spider, by anyone in the know.
My favourite would be either the 124 Abarth Rally with independent suspension & 16V (where that 037/Delta S4/131 Abarth engine was first seen) or the 1985 Spidereuropa Volumex, with the same supercharged 2-litre as in the Argenta VX.
The Lampredi DOHC was also very innovative & simple.
# 1st twincam with cambelt
# 1st engine with valve shims ON TOP of the valve buckets, so no more need to remove cams for valve adjustment.
Both these innovations soon became std in modern engines.
Lampredi also did the SOHC engine (for 128-127-Ritmo-Uno and all the way up to Tipo) AND the big V6 for Fiat 130.
You are right about that engine. In the '70s, my sister had a Fiat 125, with a 1.5l version of the DOHC engine. What a terrific thing it was.
You got it right, Jack. Here in the States, Fiat was cursed by the three R's - Reliability, Rust and Restricted performance by emissions hardware. I never even considered a Fiat before I picked-up a Datsun 2000 Sports Roadster (aka Fairlady). The Datsun's suspension was not nearly as sophisticated as the Fiat, but I enjoyed reliability and the few parts I ever needed were very inexpensive. I added a DeLong camshaft with re-jetted SU carbs and it was as quick as a 911 of the day in a straight line, but couldn't stay with them in the corners.
Thanks for mentioning interior qualities as well as all the rest. Gives a good complete picture.
less waffle would be good
Super sweet sounding engine, enjoyed the history around it too. We have a Spitfire and it certainly doesn't handle like that!
I compare my British and Italian roadsters like this.
In a Spitfire I came out of tight corners grinning, as in my FIAT Spider 2000. In the Spit it was because despite the cars best efforts I was still alive. In the Spider it was because you point at a comet, smash the accelerator and come out effortlessly.
@@JodyOwen-we6oo I have had both those cars, the wheels fell of the Pininfarnia twice, broken ball joints, Spitfire stolen.
I was in high school when these came out. Here in Texas the main competitor was the MGB, and there were still a lot Of triumphs, including the TR three that a friend of mine had. What I remember so plainly was the ease at which the top could be raised compared to the British sports cars. It was a dream. Thanks for featuring it on here.
What a beautiful car Jack!.... I don't know how you do it getting to drive all of these amazing car's, a lot of the cars you've driven recently I've never seen on the road!
Excellent stuff as always buddy 👏👍
I had a 1971 Model and it was a great little car.
I worked on those wonderful little spiders wayyyyyyy back. Loved driving them. You are correct on the ride height that ruined the look. But all together a cool sports car. I also liked the X1/9. My very first car was an 850 spider that I drove for 3 years in college.
A friend had an 850 Spider in high school and I’ll always remember this quote “I race everybody, they just don’t know it”! 😂
Great review! And anyone who thinks the Afla Spider is better than this or looks better......is wrong.
I had two 124 sport coupes over the years, the first as my second ever car following a wheezy Triumph Dolomite 1850. It was like driving a Ferrari Junior in comparison. Brilliant cars way ahead of contemporaries at the time. The first one had Radbourne Racing badging which seemed legitimate, the most elegant Cromadora alloys, went like stink and sounded wonderful - happy days 😁👍
Your enthusiasm is infectious. This little Fiat 124 reminds me of my Fiat Dino Spider, only without the V6 tune and power
Lovely little car. One of those that you can have so much fun in and, not break the national speed limit. It's been a while since I've owned a car that you're not slamming on the brakes, everytime you approach a tight bend, reason being you've floored it on the short preceeding straight and youre suddenly going far far too fast. That's actually not fun! Very few of us are racing drivers and, being able to enjoy a car whilst revving it out, is not very common nowadays. You looked like a Cheshire cat Jack 😂
I had a 74 124 sedan with the 1.6 and an automatic. Your description of the 124’s strengths and weaknesses is spot on. These are very rare in the US at this point because many states here had a crush order once they hit the junk yard. They typically had rusted too far to remain safe. But that car has ruined me for the fun factor and driving dynamics. The manual steering and feedback is sublime, when it ran. After all, it became known as Fix It Again Tony for good reason.
My dad bought a 124 coupe in about 1970. I had been driving for about 1 year. Compared to American walruses, that Fiat was amazing. So nimble. Too bad it rusted so soon. The side marker lights fell out after only about 3 Wisconsin winters.
I had a 1971 Ford Crapi, sorry Capri. Same rust problems, everything that held a fluid leaked. It was just that time of the season for rusting.
Owned a 1972 124 spider in college. Great car, even with the heavy US spec bumpers. I remember 2nd gear as brilliant and the top could be raised and lowered while sitting in the drivers seat….couldn’t do that with the MG cars I had! Now in my advanced years looking to get my hands on another. Great review, Jack, and thanks for a tremendously entertaining channel!
Road Salt is HELL on car bodies. So is snow & moisture retention in body panels.
Winters in some parts of the US can be brutal. Fiat's simply were never intended for the US market.
Obviously different paint, undercoating, body galvinization, or hot dip, metal thickness, sheet metal alloy content, sealant & gasketing (especially for openings), drainage holes, and myriad of testing & specifications, at say Ford, or Volvo, than Fiat. THAT SAID, there was the Big 3 in the US (choices). Fiat is like or was like the PHONE COMPANY in Italy. Had much of the market sewn up.
If anything, the 124 Spider kept FIAT in the US. It had a long 15 year run, and then a few more years after that with Pininfarina. As amazing as it was in 1968, FIAT never innovated a good replacement. They could have easily beat Mazda to the punch for the modern interpretation of the roadster, but they didn't even try. The Spider's replacement didn't come for another 10 years and it was FWD sadness.
They've done the same thing again. The new 500 was very popular, but they never made a new model, and they haven't sold it for four years now. Supposedly the new-new 500 will be here next year (for a five year gap) but only in limited markets. It's not going to be nearly as popular as it's predecessor.
01:42 You show here the Abarth, which had an independent suspension in the rear, not the live axle. In contemporary tests the IRS did not show up so nice (it was made for rally sport).
Back in the days I planned an Alfa 2.0 fastback, but when I had the chance to compare these cars driving, I noticed the same what you mentioned: the FIAT has the much better chassis.
I had two of these here in Germany, a 1973 BS1 (1.6l, 110hp, changed to a 1.8l Lancia Beta engine, which was quite a challenge) and later on a 1976 CS0 re-import from the US (original with a horrible low compression 1.8l, modified with a very nice 2.0l with much power). Wonderful cars, easy to tweak suspensionwise (watch it: never make it too hard!), nice to work on and fairly cheap in the 80ties and 90ties.
Unreliable? No. Not if you put a little care into it.
I had a 124 Sport Coupe when I was living in Germany 76-77. Was a blast to drive on the autobahn and open it up. Couldn't bring it to the states when I came home but your piece really brings back memories.
FIAT became an acronym in the US for Fix It Again Tony. That's a hard reputation to shake.
😄
I owned a 1970 in 1973-74.I sold it to get an E- Type.BIG MISTAKE 💰💰💰💰!!!. I'm now almost 70 and I'm gonna get another one ( Fiat 124 sport spider).I might get an MGB too!!!
I own a late model MGB. Had I come across a 124, I would bought it instead. I’m still happy though.
If you consider that in the 2010's most of the NA 1.4L still only had around 90hp, I'd say that those 1967 power numbers were quite remarkable. 🙂
The engine was the first twin cam production engine to feature a toothed belt The first toothed belt ever used was on a Glas, but that was single OHC. Another first was that the 124 Coupe had a glued in windscreen which was a production first but had its problems. I had a 1975 Coupe and the windscreen leaked a bit. One day in about 1983 I had to do an emergency stop and the car stopped on a sixpence. The windscreen kept going, slid down the bonnet and i ran over it. The glue was perfect but the steel aperture was loke a row of rotten teeth. I loved the way the 124 drove so much I actually spent my summer hols welding in a new flange ...... a mammoth task involving removing and replacing the headlining and dashboard. Apart from the plastic wheelarch liners up front the car was as usual undersealed with pasta and had no paint on invisible sections. The rear wheelarches rotted .... 128 front wings were good for profile and I folded up sills onlu to find that they were banana shaped. The front wishbones rotted and the damper mounts disappeared. Lada components were 100% better.. A truly great engine, transmission and suspension system just in need of a good set of clothes..
The 124 had nothing to do with the downfall of fiat. The fact that fiats were notoriously unreliable, disolved in water like Alka seltzer, and had service depts, and parts availability that were absolutely horrendous,coupled with the arrival of Datsun and Toyota, and the emergence of bmw.put paid to Italian, french, and many British cars as well
I always liked FIAT's in the US. I had a 69 850 Spyder which was a ton of fun. Later a 1981 Fiat 131 which was very nice but leaked oil profusely. We would laugh at the Fix-It-Again-Tony comments but they were sort of true. I always carried my tools with me. On a quiet morning, if you listened carefully, I think you could hear them rust. ;-)
Here in the states, I've owned 914's, 944's and a 1.8 litre 124. By far my favorite. It was the one car that felt that it was built around me. I'd like to find one again some day now that I have a garage.
I drove one of these several hundred miles back in the day. The US models were strangled by smog equipment.
Every new video I watch gets more exciting because of Jack's always - on enthusiasm and above all, the Camera Work - Bellissimo and Mille Grazie !!!!
My dad owned an early seventies model. I still remember sitting in the passenger side seat playing with the floppy toggle switches on the dash. He drove me from our home in VA to my paternal great grandparents home in NY when I was very young. Made me fall in love with cars early.
This was in no way responsible for Fiat's eventual failure in the US market. The roadster market in the US was moribund by the early 1980s and even stalwart MG, who founded the genre in the US, threw in the towel. Fiat's dealer network was small and scattered. The cars were unreliable and spare parts expensive and difficult to come by. Servicing had to be done by specialists who charged through the nose.
Gone were the days when Americans accepted the eccentricities of European cars. Driving was becoming a chore and there was waning interest in "weekend toys" like the Fiat. Long commutes had become the norm and nobody, enthusiast or not, enjoyed sitting on the hard shoulder waiting for rescue every 6 weeks because something as simple as a fuel pump failed to operate consistently. Japan's safety and emission laws more or less mirrored the USA's and cars like the Mazda RX-7 arrived tailor-made to American conditions. Jaguar and the Germans continued with success because their prestige offset the cost of owning them.
Fiat failed in the US because it did not have viable volume models to sustain its US operation. The Ritmo/Strada and 131/Brava were beset by rust and reliability issues and were no match for the Japanese. Keep in mind that Fiat were on the edge in Europe as well and was only saved by the Uno. The X1/9 and Spider continued under an independent distributor for some years, but by the late 1980s it was obvious that the French and Italians simply no longer had a place in the US market.
I drove an AS First Series for 10 Years and 100.000 KM. This car is simply ❤ and so sympathic. Thx for video
My father owned a 1.6 90hp 125 and his mate a 125S with the 105hp Lampredi engine.
I loved this car ❤️
If you could do more Fiat, Alfa, Lancia you would do my cuore italiano a big favor…😇
In 1972 my girlfriend at the time had a Fiat Spyder. An older one at the time in red. We decided to move across Canada to Vancouver in March and drove the Spyder 3000 plus miles through the American badlands and the Canadian Rocky Mountains. Many adventures on that trip but not an issue with the car. Good memories of the car and the girlfriend!
Cheers 🇨🇦
I got a 1969 124 coupe in January, 1970. I loved that car and it’s just about the only car I’ve owned that I would like to have again.
Thanks for reviewing the timelessly beautiful car I lusted after as a teenager but wouldn't have bought even had I been able to afford it because of its reliability issues. There was a good reason why Fiat became an acronym for ' fix it again Tony.'
I’ve had a ‘72 128SL with the revolutionary transaxle design and an I-4 1.3 that did well except occasionally burning through points. Always carried a spare and gauge.
I had an ‘82 X/19 which handled well and sounded magnificent and was otherwise only behind an ‘80 Spitfire for worst built vehicle I’ve owned.
And I own an ‘80 Spider 2000 with fuel injection on that little jewel of a Lampredi plant which may be the most fun and (for its age and the era) reliable sports car I’ve owned.
FIAT never built up a dealer/mechanic/parts network in the US and that more than two other things cost them the US market. Your American mechanic treated that alloy block like a cast iron and often did more harm than good.
Remaining reasons are building small cleverly designed, sporty handling cars just heavily built enough to do the job. One thing goes wrong and isn’t fixed, you start a cascade of problems.
And Americans don’t drive the way these cars were built to be driven. Inspect the car before starting it for fluids and lights and so on. Start it AND WARM IT. The have narrow oil ports and cold oil won’t flow until the engine is at operating temp. Highway speed cold and you can damage the engine. And rev it hard, shifting at 5000 rpm or more to gain the power band. That sporty drive spills your coffee, which you have no cup holder for anyway and gets a bit much after 3 or 4 hours driving. Where my F150 can be driven in cruise for 8 hours at 75 with no real discomfort.
Many years ago, I owned an Alfa Duetto (Boat tail) Spider and later a Fiat 124 Spider. I loved them both. As much as the Alfa's design was a true head turner, to me, the Fiat just looked somehow more "right." It was graceful, understated, even elegant. Both were enormous fun to drive. Both sounded terrific, although the Fiat was noticeably louder. As stated by others, the soft tops on both could be put up or down on a whim. Wonderful cars! Oh, and I was a young man when I owned them, so there's that. Thanks for uncovering these warm memories.
I fully agree with you Jack! A really beautiful design. A lovely and undervalued car. Thanks for your review!!
Had a 73. One of the best and most fun cars I ever owned.
Another brilliant one... you pick exactly the cars that we all like. Keep 'em coming! 😍
My red 1969 124AC 5 speed coupe was a gift to myself for returning alive from the VN War.
My wife and I drove it all over California for years. I bought a 69 124 Wagon as our grocery-getter. Both are amazing little cars. Like many commenters, the Fiat helped me learn proper driving as opposed to "steering" an American car.
I learned how to work on cars with the two 124s. Changing a timing belt was a snap, I crafted my own tool to keep the cams indexed properly when I removed the old belt. Throw on the new belt, release the tensioner and check alignment, easy-peasy.
That 1438 cc motor just loved to rev, especially when playing tag with 914-4s and various other Euro boxes. My tail lights were frequently seen by opponents. She rode on wide Sain 6-spoke alloys with slightly increased offset, so handled sweetly. Very easy to drive fast.
The Coupe's demise was the wooptee doos in the orange groves of Southern Calif. It was a delight, blasting through the groves churning up a roostertail of dirt and dust. Ultimately, I found cracks in the sub frame, so I had to say goodbye to the Coupe. I kept the little wagon for another 10 years.
The 124s were followed by a 131 Wagon and a 131 Super Brava 2.0L. The 131 Wagon didn't last long as it was possessed by an electrical demon. It was a beautiful car, but the bulkhead pass-through harness and connectors were severely damaged (previous owner) and Fiat was in decline in the US, so it was impossible to get replacements. I put 150,000 miles on the Brava and sold it to a work associate. My family needed a larger car.
I miss all of my Fiats.
Ha* Orange grove wooptee doos ~ I occasioned to take my convertible around a Seattle motorcycle dealer mx test track... Inspired by a peers regular attacks in his 128 on the muddy pastoral neighborhood track. His motto was, 'The best way to keep a Fiat running is to beat the $#!+ out of it!' Very cool to find a VN veteran went your direction and not met an untimely end in a muscle car. Salut!
great review mate thanks
All spot-on, Jack. I had a 1971 1600cc 124 Spider, here in the U.S. God, it was _wonderful_ - when it ran properly. The 1600cc engine did have enough power to bring the tail-end into play, with a strong top-end surge. As a very young, inexperienced, and underfunded DIY owner, I could never really catch up with my used example's numerous issues. We put a lot of miles on our cars here, often in pretty terrible conditions which run the full gamut, and the FIAT just wasn't up to that. Mechanically, it was good, really, but _all_ the electrics gave never-ending trouble. Still, I absolutely loved it.