I took a class from brother Wilcox when I was at BYU. He is literally one of the most loving humans who truly cares about each of his students and looks at the heart. I wish I could return the giant bear hug he gave me my first day of class, now.
We need to remember that most people mean well and are good. Most of the problem is charging people from our own prospective and making them an offender for a word. Elder Benar “One of the best indicators of our own spiritual maturity is revealed in how we respond to the weaknesses, the inexperiences, and the potentially offences actions of others.” Thank you for some understanding of this delicate subject.
Elder Ashton said, "Perhaps the greatest charity comes when we are kind to each other, when we don't judge or categorize someone else, when we simply give each other the benefit of the doubt or remain quiet. Charity is accepting someone's differences, weaknesses and shortcomings; having patience with someone who has let us down; or resisting the impulse to become offended when someone doesn't handle something the way we might have hoped. Charity is refusing to take advantage of another's weakness and being willing to forgive someone who has hurt us. Charity is expecting the best of each other."
This was an excellent video! I’m a black member of the church. I totally agree that I don’t think brother Wilcox was being racist. I think he was trying to say that we ignore the fact that the priesthood was taken from the earth for almost 2 thousand years. He just did a poor job in his delivery. He came across very unempathetic. What makes me upset though is that all of us say dumb things and make mistakes. Brother Wilcox has spent his life serving ALL people as a church leader and BYU religious professor. Why are we all soo quick to judge and condemn him?
Brother Collins, what a wonderful perspective you have. The idea of a Mote and a beam come to mind from your great take on the issue. What impresses me the most is your ability to see a concern in the speech and still recognize the life of service of Brother Wilcox. Thank you.
@@michaelpayne8770 wow that was so nice of you! This comment made my entire day. I wish there were more uplifting and encouraging people like you on the internet. Thanks so much for the kind, encouraging words!
What he said was incredibly insensitive and centred whiteness in a way that was dismissive of black members. And it’s not like this was the first time he’d given this talk.
. I have always thought that if it were necessary, in God's plan, to allow people of African decent to have the priesthood before 1978, there would have been nothing that Brigham Young or anyone else could do to keep it from happening. We forget sometimes that this is the Lord's church, not Brigham Young's church or anyone else's. As a mixed-race person, this issue bothered me when I was a teenager. So, I prayed to know the reason why. I received a peaceful assurance that God was in control. I did not get a specific answer, of course. But after that, it was no longer an issue for me.
The word "dismissive" best describes Brother Wilcox's comment from the fireside. I like Brother Wilcox and appreciate all that he does to teach and testify of Jesus Christ and His gospel.
We live in a time where we make an "offender for a word". As a black member of the Church, I'm not offended. My first identity is, as a child of God with divine potential. That being said, I understand the point Bro. Wilcox was trying to make, but I probably would not have worded it the way he did. As a side note, this must just be a Utah controversy because I haven't heard anything about it from any of my fellow LDS. I only heard about it from this youtube video.
@@jabulani22shepo61 what the actual hell? I have black nephews and nieces, and I’m concerned because this talk hit them clear in Canada. I am not trolling. I am highly concerned about this kind of a talk to our youth.
I’ve pondered the priesthood ban. I struggled with this. I am a descendant of men who owned slaves. They joined the Church after the Civil war. I heard those very folklores that you spoke of on race as I grew up. I rejected those teachings! I truly believe the Lord had to prepare this people to be able have all worthy men, regardless of race, to hold the priesthood. The persecutions and the martyrdoms of Joseph Smith were, in part, because of the issue of slavery. It has taken many generations to soften the hearts of good men who were taught bigotry. My Grandfather was a good man. He was the son and grandson of men who truly believed in those fables you spoke of. I believe that was a destructive teaching in my family. Anytime we preach hatred towards a race of God’s children it says more about the haters than the hated. Healing this kind of breach takes time. Sometimes many generations of time.
Figured I'd comment to add some diversity in the thread😊😅. I'm a convert to the church (from MD), for 26 years now 💪🏿. I consider myself a faithful and valiant member. Went to Ricks college/BYUI, served a mission, married in the temple with kids, living in Utah etc...I think Bro. Wilcox had good intentions but his execution was bad🤦🏿♂️. It's all good, you live and learn. He is a good man and he isn't racist. I wasn't offended by what he said just that his approach was off. That's all. This doesn't change my testimony of Savior and his church one bit! At the end of the day this topic is really about Lord's timing and us not having all the details/answers for now. So the natural thing to do as humans is apply logic the best way our limited minds have to fill in the gaps. Time will come when we ALL will be revealed. We have to trust and have faith that Heaven Father knows what he is doing 😇. This is what we covenanted in the temple right? We are his instruments to build the kingdom remember... Now that I'm on my soap box😆, my opinion about blacks and priesthood is truly about timing. If the Lord permitted this in full force I feel this would have frustrated the work and caused a lot persecution and harm in carrying out the gospel at that time. Look how the country was functioning then, still had slavery and a lot prejudices and horrible philosophies about blacks in the country. Look at all the social issues blacks had to endure (segregation, Jim Crow laws, not being allowed to vote, marry other races etc.) It just wasn't the right time for us🤷🏿♂️. The whole civill rights movement had to happen first. Its a sensitive topic for sure and I feel that the Lord foresaw the future of his children and what the world was going to do. So instead of forcing his will (which he'll never do) he wanted us to WAIT, as hard as it is. Father knows best! When the world and his children are ready he will tell us. He is all knowing and has infinite wisdom. In the meantime, lets keep having open conversations with love and empathy, correcting the false folklores and rumors with TRUTH and doing good to all men. 💯 #patience #TheLordsTime #TheLastDays #WheatFromTares
My brother, your comments are spot on. I am also a black convert from DC. Started out in Primary at age 10. I am not offended either, as I have followed Bro. Wilcox and know he is not racist. I fully understand his point. I have even made the same argument he was making about the priesthood to close family members. You are absolutely right about the Lord's timing. If one is an unbiased observer and in-tuned to the spirit, it is easy to see that the Lord's timing was correct, for all the reasons you mentioned.
@@fidtru8615 Glad to hear my brother! 🤝🏿 You are absolutely correct! Everything we read in the scriptures is happening today, its just that we have technology and internet haha.
I appreciate you testimony and perspective. The more i study about history, the world is extremely complicated. People get off track when left to their own devices. I trust Gods timing on all things pertaining to his children. I'm kind of wondering if we were at Ricks together. 1999-2001.
Good comment my brother. I'm black in the south. This has nothing to do with us. These white folks playing on blacks folks emotions for their own benefit. This conversation about Bro. Wilcox comments being racist doesn't even fit the definition of racism. How did his comments mistreat black people last week. This is crazy stuff so I never entertain this stuff because it's none constructive and doesn't produce justice.
I don't necessarily agree with Bro Wilcox, but I think it needs to be okay in society, especially our own church culture to be able to offer ideas without being shouted at. Bro Wilcox did not say "Thus sayeth the Lord...", he said, "Maybe...." and then shared an opinion or question that he has thought about, presumably an idea that has helped him to shift his focus of the priesthood to it's purpose. I always like Greg Matson's reasoned approach to the topics, and usually agree, nevertheless, I am able to hear Wilcox's opinion and make my own conclusions. I agree with Greg, we need to talk about the details, but do we need to talk about them every time? It's exhausting to say every possible view every time a subject is discussed. I hope we can all be strong enough to hear each other, and be strong enough to disagree and not be angered, triggered or feel attacked if we don't agree. Thanks for the discussion Greg.
I lost a brother in 2021 to cancer. He was a devout and faithful member of this church. He went on his mission to Georgia-South Carolina. He always felt bad about our black brothers and sisters not having access to priesthood and Temple blessings. He felt that the church should have apologized to our dear black brothers and sisters, but nothing was ever spoken about it in Conference. My brother thought that the idea that our black brothers and sisters were from Cain couldn't be true because they were killed during the flood. I know that Elijah Able was given the priesthood by Joseph Smith, and he was faithful in his service. Jane Manning and her family walked to find the prophet Joseph until they had bloody feet when they arrived. Emma and Joseph loved Jane and wanted to adopt her, but she said she already had a family. She said to Brigham Young, "Am I not worthy to enter the Lord's Temple and progress?" But she didn't seem to receive an understanding of why she wasn't allowed. My brother, Clay, was told never to approach the black people by the church, unless they came to him first. Clay and my family always felt that had Joseph lived, things would have been different. I'm thankful that President Kimball, my cousin, was the one who received the answer that all worthy males could receive the priesthood. I know Brigham Young was a prophet, but apparently in some of his writings in the Journal of Discourses, I believe, he said some horrible things about the black people. I was in shock when Clay read me such horrible things. Doesn't the Book of Mormon state, all come unto me, black, white, bond or free, and even the heathen. All are alike unto God. I have actually been treated better by my black brothers and sisters than people in my church. They love the Lord, and they have prayed for me when I've been sick. Darias Grey, a wonderful, faithful member of the church wanted to join the church when he first heard the gospel, but when the missionaries told him he couldn't have the priesthood, he couldn't believe that. He was a young man then and went home and prayed to the Lord about this. He was told that this was the true restored church of Jesus Christ, and that he was to join. Nothing was said about the priesthood. He was faithful until President Kimball's revelation. Until my brother died, he always felt bad that no apology or explanation was offered. I have cried for them as well. David O. MacKay felt bad too, but many of the Apostles didn't agree, so it appears that those hoping for this blessing had to wait for those men to die off before President Kimball could ask the Lord. There was a curse on Ham and his son for something that happened to Noah, but it is unclear. In scripture it mentions that this righteous Pharaoh was blessed for his righteousness but cursed as pertaining to the priesthood. I've never understood why the children should suffer for the sins of the parents. Look at the second article of faith. I hope the Lord tells us some day, but it doesn't seem fair. Shortly before President Kimball received this revelation, my mother had a dream. She said the streets were sparkling and there was a beautiful mansion like in the South. She saw all these beautiful, happy black people in white rejoicing. She wondered why she had that dream, and then President Kimball came out with the revelation. Then she realized why. As a family, we never saw color. We looked at the heart. Many black brothers and sisters have suffered terrible abuses by members of our church, and still they have been faithful. One bishop told this sweet black family that they were not welcome, and the father asked if he could at least bring in his tithing. He taught his family at home. I found that story absolutely disgusting. We should know better. If we are not one, how will we ever be a Zion people.😢
I am so glad you brought up the BYU statement. That really angered me that they basically through a great, fellow BYU professor/Gospel warrior under the bus. That truly was spineless of them.
Hey Greg, glad you're back! Since I'm not really on social media anymore (other than RUclips) I learned about this through my brother-in-law. I ended up finding a video of his talk here on RUclips and saw many angry and anti comments. One of the concerns I do have is that so many people seem to be basing their testimony, or idea of the Church, mainly on the people in the church. I disagreed with the tone and delivery of some of what Brad Wilcox said. But it doesn't uproot my testimony. Yet I saw many comments encouraging members that if they feel uncomfortable listening to his talk, it's time for them to leave the church, and I saw people agreeing that they're looking elsewhere or feeling its time to leave. In my life I've been misjudged by church members, including bishops and stake Presidents. I've also disagreed with certain things the church is doing. Such as pushing and funding vaccines, and some of the things the church is involved in monetarily (stocks, business, charities). But it doesn't uproot the testimony I do have and so I have no problem staying because I go to church to worship God and try to better myself. Perhaps you talk about this further in your video, I'm not done watching yet, but what do you think can be done to help shift the focus of some people from looking so much at church leaders to be perfect, instead of basing their testimony on something deeper? Of course we need to have a testimony of prophets and apostles being called of God. Without that we can't acknowledge their authority from God. I just worry when I see people I care about focusing too much on members/leaders personal actions and turning them away from the church, or turning them away from ever joining.
I think we need to focus more on the words of the First Presidency, Apostles, and the scriptures. While everything else can add context and widom, a lack of the other puts us into the whirlwind of instant information. Also, regular prayer. We need to learn to filter other voices, even other Church leaders. Take the good and leave the rest behind. They are normal people that make errors like the rest of us and they're just doing their best.
There are exmormon trolls out there who come-off as members encouraging folks to leave the Church if they are 'uncomfortable' over Brad Wilcox's, Elder Holland's or any of the other talks. It is never time to leave unless members are dead set on kicking themselves out. I would tell them to hang in there and focus on the prize. A Zion people are one in purpose, one in patience and one in the Savior. I think there are going to be much bigger challenges ahead that will make these blazes look like campfires. Bring it on.
Sadly many members are convinced that EVERY possible thing a Church leader says or does is straight from The Lord , this Never ends well . One of my local leaders actually said exactly this thing recently at Church . So whatever football team an Apostle cheers for tomorrow is the “holy team “ ? What if a Seventy likes another team ? Church leaders have preferences and ways of doing things like EVERY other person on Earth . Bro. Wilcox is a personal favorite at our house and We love him dearly …We already knew he wasn’t perfect . There is NO reason for the Prophet to repeatedly ask people to “Hear Him” if Leaders were perfect in ALL things . Follow the Prophet , he knows the way still holds true , but this demand for perfection is not true . Like Joseph would say to those that demand perfection …I won’t expect it of you if you don’t expect it of me .
@@tomasina10 You mean - follow the current prophet, but I'm so scared of Oaks on the matter of our LGBTQ+ children. I personally wouldn't be so glib about following the prophet. I don't think this mother bear can do it on this issue.
I also want to add these words that are meant to heal All souls. Brad teaches this: "Don't you dare let the world make a mark on you! You were born to make mark on it!" And how do we do that? Brad teaches we do that by understanding who we ALL are in Christ. That is Brad's truth and the message he has always tried to make. Please know his intentions are always pure.
This was beautiful. Thank you, Greg, for helping unpackage this situation for people. I agree with exactly what you said. We cannot ignore the dismissive nature of Bro. Wilcox's remarks, but that doesn't mean he needs to be "cancelled". We can uphold him as a leader of the Church, while simultaneously holding him accountable for the errors in his remarks - not as a way to punish him, but as a way to improve the narrative in the Church revolving the ban on the Priesthood. I would not be surprised if your episode is where MANY in the Church will have heard Brigham Young's history regarding this topic and the fact that it did not arise out of revelation. I thoroughly appreciate when, as members, we are able to speak frankly about the past without feeling like we need to leave the Church and essentially throw the baby out with the bathwater.
This comment is very well stated. I feel much the same. I have held many callings in the church and have felt the Lord's influence in using this very very very imperfect tool to do some good. The original 12 apostles were imperfect humans, stumbling along a path with imperfect minds but willing hearts. Those without sin cast the first stone.......there is a great message in that statement and we must remember to look at ourselves and others with this context, especially when a fellow brother or sister have expressed sorrow, not for evil intentions, but for simply being an imperfect human being just trying to do their best.
Thank you for addressing this issue and sharing the historical background and being fair and objective to both sides of the issue and not giving in to the emotions and not tearing down.
Brad Wilcox is a good man, a God-fearing man. This is a prime example of how members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not perfect. Jesus will make everything right soon enough, let's keep spreading His love till then!
Just months after the announcement in 1978 that all worthy black males could receive the priesthood, my mission companion and I met a wonderful black family from Trinidad living in Caracas, Venezuela and taught and baptized them into the church The black people I know are spiritual giants and add so much to God’s restored church!
I LOVE that Brother Wilcox apologized as soon as it was brought to his attention and he was able to see the way his words were insensitive and dismissive. Leaders like Brad will help stop people from leaving the church because they apologize. So many church leaders won’t apologize for making mistakes, and make excuses of why they are justified. While it was bad for some of us to hear it strengthens my testimony that he was willing to be like the Savior wants us to be and apologize when we do something wrong.
I’m a church member with mixed races parents, This folklore ride my black father out of church he was a great member of church but a lot of racism on the 70th’s . My self suffer racism when I married my ex white husband even bishop talked to him to tell him I’m black. So this Fireside talk was like you said insensitive. Can’t affect my testimony because I know who I am. But can affect early birds on church! 😌😌😌😌
I am impressed that Brother Wilcox recognized the healthy opinions of his message being insensitive and I understanding and apologized. We all make mistakes and apologies help us get past hurtful things that people do.
I’m sorry you have experienced that. I’m sorry your father did too. I’m sorry a bishop was so insensitive. I’m thrilled that you are not shaken but solid in the gospel!
Greg, thank you for your always balanced perspective on church issues. This is a good time for us Saints to look at the heart of people, rather than the outward appearance (1 Samuel 16:7). I had a similar situation happen to me while being a guest speaker in a seminary class. I said a few words in the class that were kind of shocked the kids. My words were well meaning, but kids went home and told their parents and parents immediately called the stake president complaining. And I had to have a conversation with the stake president. He told me he had to go in and do "damage control" to the seminary class the day after my visit. For months I felt extremely down and depressed because of the incident. I've had 40 years of serving in the church, many were teaching callings and I've never had any complaints. I can only imagine what Brother Wilcox is feeling right now. He probably feels such extreme embarrassment that he'd like to find a rock and climb under it till he dies. I feel for him. I really do. But thanks for your even handed analysis of this incident.
And we APPRECIATE men and women with PURE & GOOD service to God's people. Yes, we all can learn from each other, but I'm TIRED of people having to APOLOGIZE for being BORN, let alone speaking with a conscience... Jesus said to "Love one another as I have loved you.." NOT "Be the world's doormat to PUSH the critical race theory agenda.." CRT is Socialist. Socialism is Communist. Communism is of the DIRTY OLD DEVIL HIMSELF! I hope you know that people LOVE AND CARE ABOUT you AND this gentleman who is being DRAGGED through the mud 👍🏻🙏🏼
I believe that it should be presumed that most people have profitable intentions when speaking. And, given this situation, it does not appear that the individual delivering the message had hurtful intentions. But, giving the probability that his intentions were meant for edification, I can not agree that he is embarrassed nor even to an extreme degree. If this had been his first time stating his position, then maybe so. But, and you can find it online, this is not his first time he has made the same comments. He’s been recorded at least on one other occasion. And, since he’s said it more than once, he’s had the thought or has even stated his thought on other occasions as well.
I am so grateful that the Lord spared your life and allowed you to keep helping us sort through all that is going on concerning the church, it’s leaders and members, BYU, and today’s challenges. I agree with your perceptions and conclusions on this particular issue, and I will continue to pray for you and your health and for our church leaders as they do their best to guide us through these last days.
Maybe you don't understand. There has been no mercy already, that's why people are speaking out. Members seem to be just fine when leaders call "apostates", LGBT or nonmembers, or other religions names or compare them to demeaning metaphors. It's not right, but like I said, members appear to be fine with it, no questions asked.
I loved the insight, but i think we have to be careful to rip on Brigham Young. I’ve noticed a trend in the church to act as if Joseph Smith was perfect but Brigham Young caused all the problems of the church today. That’s not okay, I’m not saying you’re doing that, but Brigham Young was just as much a prophet of God as was smith. Priesthood restrictions are biblical and that’s just a fact and it shouldn’t be overlooked and laid all at the feet of Brigham young. No prophet gets more discredited than Young. I don’t have all the answers, but it’s biblical that priesthood has been restricted by god. It’s biblical it’s not all about blaming president Young.
I think it is very appropriate for Brad Wilcox's message to be heavily critiqued and discussed as it has been. Discussing the message, it's delivery, and what was problematic about it is appropriate and has nothing to do with his kind and compassionate reputation. Anyone who accepts a leadership position in what they are claiming is the one and only true church upon the face of the earth should be held to a higher standard.
I'm a white woman and even though the Levites were the custodians and exercisers of the priesthood ALL were able to worship at the temple. The thought that a loving Heavenly Father would exclude worthy members from participating in eternal covenants is a point of struggle in my testimony. Thankfully I know the Savour Jesus Christ's love for us all. Thank you for telling how the policy came into the church very enlightening. Which brings to mind the article of faith that says we will be punished for our own sins and not Adam's trangressions as well as God is no respector of persons. I'm so confused the more I learn about this subject. Thanks again for time energy and thoughtful effort that goes into your program.
I think that his comments weren’t necessarily to devalue the real hardship with not having a clear answer as to why there was a racial ban. I think that he’s also proposing that we don’t have the answers in general, and that there are serious questions about the Lord’s timing and the restoration of the priesthood that we don’t have all the answers to. Great discussion. It’s a shame that BYU still hasn’t grown a spine and feels the need to do damage control by “washing their hands of it” to avoid any backlash coming back to them.
Thank you for this informative video. I could have lived without the youth being unduly-influenced by fear, e.g. you'll lose everything if you leave the church. Appropriate? A number of impressionable youth are already right on the edge, and they certainly don't need this sort of anxiety-inducing talk. In my estimation, those who, in their pursuit of immediate, short term results, employ such methods (even unintentionally), are seriously shortsighted, That said, I agree that Professor Wilcox (or anyone else for that matter) shouldn't be "cancelled".
I've seen Brad Wilcox teach efy as an efy counselor, I've had him as a Book of Mormon teacher at BYU, and now we have seen him give a conference talk. He changes his style for each one, keep in mind a youth devotional will have 11 year olds at it. He has also been doing this a long time, so I think he's probably keeping a similar style to what he was doing in 2008. I do think we should be more direct with these topics and put the facts out there, warts and all. It should have been worded differently. But people are behaving as if this was something he said in a gospel doctrine class that was all about this ban. It was something he briefly addressed in a talk that covered tons of other topics and it was to youth, some of which were probably not at the age to fully engage with the fuzzy lines that sometimes occur with Church doctrine. I personally think I'll wait till my kids are 15ish to go into full in-depth discussions about this.
Bro. Greg, thank you so much for standing up for my black African people who were indeed excluded from receiving the priesthood. I have a black African Mama and a white European Papa, yes I am Métis and how proud and grateful I am for this wealth that I can represent. And yet I would not have dared to come out like you do to give my view because then it would have been just an opinion. I have been a member for 41 years and was baptized in February 1980. I got to see and hear and experience so much. Much more than if I had just been white. With this I want to say that our H. Father was always close to me and strength and has learned so much about my fellow man (his children) and about our leaders. For a while I was very angry when reading statements and luckily I always knew how to rely on the miracles the many miracles in my life that only He my Father could give me. Because of this, I knew that our leaders make mistakes just like me. I have also always inquired about that one or more revelations in which I could read how and why my black brother or sister were excluded and despised and so on and all this in that beautiful pure church! Only my H. Father understood me and my Savior carried me and wiped many tears for this sorrow. Thank you again for standing up for our black brothers and sisters so clearly and forcefully. I wish you joy and Father's rich blessings. Greetings from Belgium
So much of the controversy over this could be avoided by listening carefully to the Lord's Spirit after sincere prayer. The Lord's Spirit will not lie to us. We can really know what it is Heavenly Father wants us to say, do and think about the subject. Then we have a choice to accept Truth as our Father in Heaven defines it or we can choose to deny His Truth and redefine this and call it our own "truth". If a Church leader misspeaks or are insensitive...well....they are human. Humans do that from time to time. This is why we have the Lord's Spirit to show us truth from error. Good on Brother Wilcox for apologizing. One time President Gordon B Hinckley said something to me in passing that was not becoming of the Lord's Prophet. I dismissed it immediately because I was aware he had some issues on this point, and really didnt think it was a big deal....but he did and he sent me a formal letter of apology signed by the first presidency. I was stunned! God bless our leaders. People are always looking for a reason to reduce them in their own and others eyes. It's like a symptom of an illness within.
The real question is: why did men who talk with God get it so wrong? Which begs the question: Why are you believe they talk with God? Greg, why would the later prophets object to lifting the ban because of the lack of prophecy to do so if they weren’t convinced it was implemented by prophecy? Were they just clueless as to how this whole prophetically lead doctrine works? This is getting ridiculous and I believe it’s going to come to a head. The members of the church are waking up to the truth. If David o Mackey received a prophecy to not lift the ban then that is revelation saying the ban is from God. I’m sorry but it doesn’t work any other way.
as an ex mormon, i agree that he wasn't being a racist. those that call him a racist is the ones that just want to criticize the mormon church or those who are into cancel culture movement for whatever reason it is.
Thanks Greg. Well said. As someone old enough to remember how things were in the South in the 70's, things were still very complicated and segregated. For instance my family lived in a small town in Oklahoma where it was literally divided by a railroad track. On one side was the white part of town, on the other the black part. As a young white woman I was expected to have only white kids at my house. That was a stupid rule and I didn't follow it. It didn't take long before a couple of the black young men were beaten up because they were at my house. It was very shocking to me because I was just following MLK and his dream. My friends were good people. The race issue in America has been so volatile for so long. I feel bad for those Brethren who were trying to fix it. I literally wept when the announcement was made in 1978. I personally feel that it's time to have the black members explain things. Elder Peter Jackson would have been great at it. I haven't seen Elder Wilcox's talk so I can't comment on that but thank you for addressing it. You always tackle the hard issued. I hope you're getting stronger every day.
Trying to see as God sees, could the reason for the ban on blacks receiving the priesthood have anything to do with the Lord commanding the saints to go west. Why did the Lord send the saints West? Was it to protect his Kingdom and Church from the devastation of the conflict between the North and South states and the Civil war? What would have happened to His Church if the saints had stayed in Illinois during this conflict? I find it interesting that the ban continued during the Civil Rights Movement. What would have happened to His Church had the church taken a position on blacks? Was God protecting His Church and black members from serious persecution from members still believing in the culture's belief at the time that blacks were less human than whites? It's interesting how many Africans were waiting to be baptized during the ban. It's interesting that by 1978, the culture had changed enough respecting black and their status in society to allow now all worthy males to enjoy the priesthood once again. I was alive at the time of Pres. Kimball's announcement to the world. Since then, I have had an extraordinary experience on my mission in Curitiba Brasil with Apostle David B. Haight. He spoke personally what he experienced in the upper room of the Salt Lake Temple when the revelation came. He shared this while having his arm around one of the beautiful black sister serving in our mission. There's was not a single dry eye in that chapel as he shared his experience of what happened as the revelation came to his living prophet. We don't know why earlier prophets didn't receive the revelation sooner. Those prophets did ask, but only to be told the time is not now. My reasoning may not be the reason for the removing the ban sooner, but it sure seems God is protecting His Church and people during this time.
Haven’t heard of this until now but Ive heard Brother Wilcox in other talks and I believe he is an honorable man. People need to stop being so sensitive.
Brad is a man of service and dedication to the Lord for sure. He has sincerely apologized for saying the hurtful wrong things.please don’t say the problem is people being sensitive. The priesthood ban is a very difficult and challenging topic and Brad Wilcox was very flippant and insensitive about a topic that deserves thoughtful and appropriate handling. By saying people are just being to sensitive it harms our black brothers and sisters that mean so much to us and our Heavenly Father.
I like how you just want to know the truth. You're not a pure apologist. You are willing to admit there were errors. You're very faithful to God, and you recognize we all make mistakes. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging these things.
Greg, you said we don't know the reason for the ban and that's absolutely right. The problem is, people in and out of the Church have taken the Church disavowing previous theories and reasons given for the ban as an excuse to come to state as fact the only conclusion they personally can come up with - that the reason for the ban was just racism, only racism, nothing else involved but racism, and its as simple as that. This is, frankly, the lazy and simplistic approach. While not discounting that race attitudes of the day played a role, we have to remember that several prophets up to President Kimball appealed to the Lord for years to change the policy and they received no answer or were specifically told no by the Lord. You mentioned President McKay's account of being told no by the Lord. Obviously the Lord could have stepped in and corrected things at any time over the years. The fact He didn't at least suggests in my mind there was more to it than it just being a big mistake, as the result of racism alone, and there was nothing else to it.
Help me understand how Brigham Young telling a specific race (black) of people that they can’t have the priesthood or that black women can’t participate in temple ordinances isn’t racist? We need to quit saying it isn’t racism. Acknowledge it was disavowed theories of me just like the current official answer from the “Race and the priesthood” essay states. We will be able to repent and move on only after we all stop saying it wasn’t racism, it was something else. No, we need to confess the sin, say sorry and not do it again. Your opinion is not what the Church essay states and is causing black brothers and sisters to continually be harmed because people are not confessing the sin and repenting. We all have to be willing to repent. Even our most loved prophets and apostles have made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes. The Church is trying to help us understand this: “Admitting the errors in our own thinking is sometimes the most difficult part of understanding Church history because it takes humility to change our expectations and assumptions after we learn they are incorrect.” www.thechurchnews.com/living-faith/2022-02-03/keith-erekson-ensign-college-devotional-what-latter-day-saints-get-wrong-about-living-prophets-expectations-revelation-jesus-christ-241732
That part is very interesting. I remember some of the brethren at the time theorized the Lord may have been waiting for the members to fully prepare themselves for the policy to be changed before giving the revelation.
That part is very interesting. I remember some of the brethren at the time theorized the Lord may have been waiting for the members to fully prepare themselves for the policy to be changed before giving the revelation.
@@daveanderson7179 Nobody said racist attitudes of the day didn't play a role. I'm saying it's lazy and dishonest to claim, as many do, that racism was the ONLY factor involved. Especially when, as the Church has said, we don't know the reasons and, as President Oaks said, when we make up own reasons we're on our own. I've read the Church essay many times. And while it does a good job of explaining the context of the issue in that day and leading up to the 1978 revelation, it doesn't touch on everything including the accounts of different prophets imploring the Lord for guidance and change and getting no answer or specifically being told no. To ignore that is dishonest and not looking at the whole matter. Furthermore, who exactly is the Church supposed to apologize to? Most members of African descent today have never been denied anything. And any acting like they have been is akin to some modern day female members of the Church taking umbrage to the teaching of plural marriage when they were never asked to practice it in the first place. Considering all the Church is and has to offer, in terms of eternity, if anyone is still getting hung up on a policy that ended 44 years ago, the problem is their's. Not the Church's. Moreover, who is supposed to make this apology? If any members, white, black, or whatever, want to take it up with Brigham or his successors up to President Kimball when they get to the other side, they can but I don't see it going well for them. And while they're at it, they can also go gripe to the Lord Himself. After all, He could have stepped in any time between the 1850s and 1970s and corrected this "sin" you speak of but He didn't. In fact, as we've said, He specifically told Presidents like David O. McKay and Harold B. Lee to NOT change the policy. But I guess we're just supposed to overlook that and just go with the easy, politically correct explanation.
@@stevec8861 Again, the Lord specifically told President McKay no, that it would not be in his lifetime, and to not bring it up again. But you appear to be willfully ignoring that because the thought there may be more to it is uncomfortable to you. "For those who don't believe in modern revelation there is no adequate explanation. Those who do understand revelation stand by and wait until the Lord speaks. It's only a matter of time before the black achieves full status in the Church. - Harold B. Lee (1972)
Despite the specifics of Brad Wilcox's comments, we are in real danger of supressing debate. It is increasingly difficult to hold and express an opinion with being declared a proponent of hate speech. Watch the expression of religious views become banned and those that speak them; ostracised.
You can't expect abusive language to be protected by freedom of religion. Brad was belittling, condescending at the very least. People need to be able to recognize verbal abuse in their own religions, because it is not sanctioned by God.
@@alananat6628 I agree with you on some aspects of the talk, especially the part about other religions “playing church”. But I find the overreaction to his point about the Priesthood not always being available, and insisting it was a racist statement being a typical SJW, lefty response. This reaction is everywhere and it’s poison.
Agree with you about the suppression of debate. However, don't see religious views being banned or even suppressed. If anything, people's civic liberties are being compromised at the expense of religious liberties. And with the new conservative Supreme Court which decides cases on the basis of a political agenda, only see this expanding ultimately with an increasing backlash on religion in society overall. Especially with younger Americans who will continue to leave religion in droves.
I am thankful for the Church sharing pure history of the Church to help us understand the things that is happening in the Church. Why we do what we do, why receive this and that, why things are done and how it was done.
To me as a non-Mormon but of pioneer Mormon stock, both the polygamy issue and the priesthood issue coincide with the US government coming in and saying fix this or else. I doubt there would be so much hoopla if both of these issues were not intertwined with the government.
Thank you for your comments. I don't read books by LDS authors anymore, because there is so much erroneous information in them. I wish I had never read some books that said terrible things about black people. I was also told to never criticize leaders of the Church. So much heartache has been caused by insensitive Church leaders. There is a reason why the scriptures say "preach nothing but repentance."
You shouldn't read any books in the world if you apply that principle to the church. You couldn't even live in america based on your comment and I'm a black man.
I'm not sure I understand why being dismissive of racial issues isn't racist. The comparison of the priesthood and temple ban to the Levites holding the priesthood is not fine. It is not analogous to the conversation about Black priesthood holders (aside from the fact that Moses married an Ethiopian woman, so one might surmise that there were at least some black Levites); restricting priesthood *to* one narrow part of the faithful is not the same as restricting priesthood (and temple blessings!) *from* one narrow part of the faithful. 16:35- Sort of? These accounts are second and third hand and contradict one another. 17:05- "Brigham Young certainly did not give them the clarity on this." This is not an accurate statement. As you pointed out, Brigham Young explained why he was implementing the ban: because of the curse of Cain. Now it's certainly possible, probably likely, that they were unfamiliar with the documents that explained this, but that's different. 18:25- You attribute this statement about "a contradictory and confusing legacy of racist religious folklore" to the First Presidency. Can you please provide the reference for this? From my searching, it appears to originate with Armand Mauss. 21:04- This is no longer accurate. Again, as you pointed out, Brigham Young explains why he implements the ban. 23:44- How has Brother Wilcox been canceled? 25:23- Right. Would had Brother Wilcox said that rather than disparage other religions. 27:55- I hope if we can disseminate accurate history about the priesthood and temple ban this won't be the case.
I'm reminded that the priesthood was returned to all men that is the worthy men of the church in the beginning. Yes Brad Wilcox could have included that in his comments, and that would have been the best way, because we know it's true. Considering Elijah Abel and others received the priesthood before it got perverted by those who lean towards the side of racist ideology. But again when people are looking for fault they will find fault and then see nothing else but fault
Accountability for one's words and actions has always been taught in church. Brad has been doing this for years, and many other leaders are fine with it too.
It is obvious that we have more to learn on this issue as striving members of the church. What is also obvious is the pointing finger of scorn that is manifesting in laser-focused attacks against the church and its members. These attacks will not stop but only get worse--take your vitamins and get your rest! : ) I feel for Brother Wilcox and pray that all inlvoved will learn what the Lord needs us to learn.
I'm saddened by all these judgements. The Savior knows all our hearts. He desires to heal all our pains and sorrows. If we are unwilling to accept apologies then how can we be recipients of the Saviors gift to forgive us of our sins and follies. Allow Christ to repair the injustices, by applying the gift of the Atonement. We are all imperfect. We are asked to love one another.
Hi greg, i have always respected your podcast. I thought you would take complete side with those on the side of wilcox. My respect for you has grown. I agree, it was not racist and i don't believe he had bad intentions but it was insensitive. Unfortunately when people live in a bubble and are surrounded only with those they agree with, this is the result. I wish he had provided more context and worded it differently but noneone is perfect. We should all be forgiving.
Brother Wilcox was defending the faith from the attacks the members of the church are starting to come to terms with. The church was clearly racist and that includes never who say the communicate with the Lord. I’m sorry but the church should be apologizing for doing what Brother Wilcox was trying to defend.
Anthony . I do think brother Wilcox was trying to defend the church and prophets from attacks . Especially on Brigham young . But like he says if we put ourselves n our black members shoes and see how they may feel then we can see his use of words could have been better . I’m glad he did apologize . Actually he made a second apology . He is was very sincere .
Hello, thanks for your insights on this. Knowing the Wilcox's and in fact being cousins by our joint G-grandfather, I guarantee, Brad simply cannot have racist thoughts. There is not enough room in him to think negatively about anyone. As well his apology, I promise you, was said with true tears of sorrow for the pain his words may have caused. Please people, look at his 40 years of worthy credits; all the books, talks for youth, EFY, Seminary, Institute; thousands of talks and through the ripple effect, tens of thousands of people whose lives were changed because of his words and stories. If you understand this, you will see this was just a mishap & not the measure of this dear man. He is not dismissive of anyone-that is simply not him. You speak a lot, right Brother? Sometimes, we all frame things differently than we mean. It's a hazard of giving so many talks. Different topics sometimes melt into another. I think that's what happened. Please, judge this sweet man by his works, not a few unintended statements.
It is not unusual for drivers to become tired and run off the road… there were more offensive remarks than those referencing the priesthood. He drove like a tired man out of control all over that ‘road’.
My perspective on this whole cancel culture is why are we excepting as a society that a small handful of people get to tell everyone else how to think, what to say, what to believe, who we can socialize with, etc. The only opinion that should matter to anyone is the opinion of God. Because when we are all dead and gone that’s all we have is the truth of God.
Thank you Greg. I’m new to your channel this year and enjoy it. I have a couple questions. 1- is there a transcript of his talk anywhere? I’ve been unable to find it. I won’t judge someone’s words based on an excerpt. I would like to better understand the context of his entire talk before I assume what he was trying to communicate. I appreciate that you are doing the same and have shared a little more than just the couple sentences most are posting. 2- is it correct to say his talk (or at least this portion of it) was about God’s timing and not about Blacks and the priesthood? If not please correct me. But if so, I don’t think he should have explained more about Blacks and the priesthood. That was not the point of his talk. If the point was to help the youth understand that sometimes things don’t happen in life when we want them to or think they should- then delving deeper into other topics would have been a a digression from his point. Was he not just using waiting for the priesthood as an example of waiting on the Lord? To me it seems he worded it poorly and was insensitive inasmuch as he didn’t think through how his words would be taken out of context. Was his point- worded better- something more like this: We ask why did the Blacks have to wait over 150 years to receive the priesthood. It is a good question and was a difficult time for our Black brothers and sisters who we love. Another similar question we could ask is why did the entire world have to wait over 1700 years after the death of the apostles to receive the priesthood?
Brother Wilcox made several points, the one most in question was on the priesthood, not timing. Here is a link to his entire talk - ruclips.net/video/zqB8UmnNcqk/видео.html
@@CwicShow thanks for your quick reply Greg. I just listened to most of his talk. I think understand the point he was making. It was - yes- the Blacks had to wait for priesthood. So did the whites. So did every other race. So did the gentiles have to wait until after the Jews, etc. let’s just be grateful we have the priesthood. He could have worded it better but I suspect most youth he was speaking to understood his point no problem. I’ll bet most anyone would not have thought much about it if they were just listening to his talk in it’s entirety. It’s only a huge deal because people looking for mistakes called it out and put their own incorrect interpretation on it (falsely claiming he is a racist). Was his comment a little insensitive to blacks- not thinking through that it may have hurt some of their feelings? Probably. But I could also see an honest in heart black member taking what he said to heart and studying more about why the gentiles did not have the priesthood right away etc. Anyway- he regrets not wording it better and he will likely be more careful in the future how he words things knowing there are those out to get him ready to pounce. By the way- shortly after this part of his talk he went into depth about why women “don’t have the priesthood “. I thought it was done extremely well- especially for a youth audience.
Everyone just settle down and stop assuming ill intent. He should clarify himself, but being quick to offense is not helpful, lifts nobody up, and kills open and free discussion. Its also too often disengenuous. People are cocked and loaded for stuff like this.
The scriptures, principles, commandments, truths, revelations given by God and Christ are very clear on how we are to live and treat others, from all creeds, races, religions, etc. In every era and time God has to work in the constraints of time, place, culture, education, religious backgrounds, creeds, beliefs, etc. Think time, place, people, context, spiritual maturity, desire and readiness. Readiness to accept and live revelations and living the golden rule. Unfortunately, for a lack of better words, humanity, us, people, are all the Lord has to work with. You'll notice God continues to work with us and never gives up on us. And he allows every people, even prophets, to exercise their intellect, understanding, agency, learning in the process of eternal progress of each and every person from every background, circumstances and time. The Lord allows for error and mistakes. The hyper dissection of words, intended meanings, propensity to being offended and ultra critical comments on everything secular, sectarian, country, culture, sex and sexual relations, race, politics, etc. Is beyond disconcerting and a sign of the times. It's been vogue, chic, expected and acceptable in the last 40 year. Getting offended and being offended has become the norm and culturally reinforced especially I'm the last 10 to 15 years. Comments and stances in the lds church and in other churches are being made all the time. People can be better communicators on all sides for sure, but there are just too many looking to complain and virtue signal and express how hurt they are. That's what I observe in today's culture regarding almost any topic. Open minds, open hearts, the golden rule, cool heads and a desire to get along and understand will hopefully win the day.
Well said. And "we choose to be offended" I believe it was Elder Uchtdorf's quote? We are in a time when no one can express an opinion without MSM, educators, cultures, etc being offended and attacking the people who have those opinions. A public figure can do 99 things good/right and one thing insensitive, offensive, negative, whatever and the world seems to dwell on that one thing.
Very well stated, I love brother Ahmad Corbett said awhile back. “ I don’t know how it started but I do know how it ended” not sure that a exact quote.
The leadership of the church has become crowded appeasers and not focused on what God wants them to do. These are our leaders and they are put in place at this given time based on God's plan and I get that, but that doesn't mean that they cannot say something wrong, but every time somebody raises a flag of feeling oppressed they do everything they can to fall over and try to appease the minority. When Jesus Christ was being followed by the masses that he fed the day before, he was wroth with them and make sure he said things that would push them away. We are in a time where strength is everything and not by the numbers that associate themselves with the church but the strength of the core of the very elect. We have done everything to look weak, and now we're being attacked even more. Japan attacked America based on the assumption that we were weak, well that wasn't a good idea for the Japanese now was it. Anytime the church looks weak and they're not willing to hold up the gauntlet of Truth then we get attacked more and more. We just need to set a standard and say this is our standard and we're not going to bend anymore. If you want to be with us great we love you, if you do not want to be with us great we still love you and will miss you. But don't let the door hit you with a good Lord split you on your way out. I know that Russell M Nelson is a prophet of God it was revealed to me before he was called as the president of the 12 apostles. But I also know he needs to learn just like everyone else is learning, but again he needs to know that we need to stop appeasing the crowd and start rallying the forces of good within the church
Thank you Greg for your perspective regarding this issue. The bottom line for me is that regardless of the cause or decisions made surrounding this issue, no child of God will be denied any blessing in the eternities period! Yes there are inequities in this life however Christ has paid the price for all our follies and missteps be they individual, Apostles or even a Prophet. All are alike in the eyes of our Heavenly Father.
I think the lesson here is transparency. The church needs to be as clear and open as possible on all difficult topics. No dismissing hard questions. No excuses for members words, actions or deeds. No more saying "we simply don't know the answers". Straight up apology is best. Apologize to blacks. Apologize to women. And say It's done. It's really over. We are sorry it happened and moving forward it will not happen again. Likewise, Admit polygamy was wrong and denouce it. Reject it and anything like it.
It was also the way he spoke, the tones he used. It would be a mistake to think this was just about the Priesthood. If this was t racist to you, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t racist to younger than you members. Check out a few tik toks mocking Brad.
Appreciate your effort to be balanced and honest here… I’m led to 2 questions based on your explanation: 1. If the policy wasn’t enacted by revelation, why did it have to be redacted by revelation? That suggests to me that the GA’s largely thought BY’s “policy” was from God. 2. How can people square this with the still-repeated LDS aphorism, “the prophet will never lead you astray”? Isn’t this a clear case of just that?
In regards to #1, I think there is a lot of truth to that. #2, in my estimation, we take too much off a hardline approach on this. I believe we need to understand this more along the lines of our salvation.
I'm glad you survived! I think in general, speakers shouldn't wing it on this subject and use carefully crafted messaging, especially from leadership. His messaging was sloppy and offensive. Maybe even stupid.
That was my problem with it. I listened to the entire speech last night. My takeaway is that he was trying too hard to be funny and entertaining while tackling sensitive issues. Sometimes he even sounded combative and sarcastic when speaking of those who either choose to leave the Church, or of those who are not of our faith. I feel bad for Brother Wilcox because he is a genuinely good man. I'm sure this has been one of the hardest weeks ever for him.
@@trishcrowe5474 what's truly unfortunate is that the church and its members spend a lot of time, energy and resources to build relationships with the black community, and with one talk we're back to the drawing board.
I listened to his remarks earlier this week. I followed a link to his talk given through an anti group (which kind of group I generally avoid, but they snagged me from a RUclips feed, which actually was primarily about Wendy Nelson's recent talk in Europe that used some very strong counsel to be very strict in following ALL the words of the prophets--and I took the bait. The Brother Wilcox carfluffle came up on the back end of that group's discussion) I went in prepared to defend Brother Wilcox from whatever he was being accused of, but I have to admit his talk was painful to hear. Not knowing much about him, I have to confess I found his remarks so dismissive and flippant that I was taken back. I was REALLY worried that the topic being treated this way was directed at youth in the church, who weren't being served well by it. My feeling initially was that I was glad none of my youth were any where near that talk. That was not the way I wanted any important subject in the gospel or church treated in any venue. Now, of of course I want to give Brother Wilcox the benefit of the doubt, he probably feels horrible. I appreciate comments about him from those who know him personally etc. We would all want to be judged with equity and fairness, not as the antis did, who basically shredded him. I hope this whole thing doesn't do much damage to sensitive members.
@@pauline17ish i think sometimes Utah is a bubble that produces some strange ideas (and characters). I' ve lived everywhere, and I've only heard this kind of thing from behind the Zion curtain. It is a cultural problem as well as religious.
First of all , really glad to see you're back at the mic... and on the back side of covid... Unfortunately we're not entitled to authentic conversation and discourse because of all the various reasons people get offended.. So if you know anyone, like children or investigators, who wonders why conference talks can be so stiff and robotic explain its because the world at every turn lieth in judgement..
“They taste blood in the water…” Greg, you and a lot of people see that if they look past the bumper sticker sound bites. The bigger holistic view on this would be a recognition that the Lord needs to deal with the fallout (politically or otherwise) of errors of his servants. The prophets have and will screw up. The Lord knows all things from the beginning to the end, so I’m flustered primarily with peoples non-reckoning of this as a cataclysmic overreaction. It’s not simple, and Greg is 💯 spot on that it can’t have lip service simplification, or this is exactly what we’ll get in the day and age of cancel culture.
In this particular case Brad recognized that he made a remark that was harmful and wrong and he sincerely apologized. The criticism was merited and he will be a better leader because of this healthy feedback. I don’t think it is healthy for us to say that when people disagree with one of our leaders that we say “they are just offended”. Do you think Brad shouldn’t have apologized?
@@daveanderson7179 You have two distinct issues here: one is if he should apologize and if it’s okay if Church leaders write-off opposing views as being offended. As to the first, what he’s apologizing for is the important part, so my answer is yes in that it should focus not on the cancellation narrative (racism) but focus on his inelegant way of handling a complex topic. As for the second one, other comments have pointed out the parallel to the members opposed to the “vaccine” push of the Church. In that case, dismissing them is just as bad if not worse idea because it has the same pattern (non-relevation based dictate) and proximate, physical ramifications.
@@daveanderson7179 like the Prophet Joseph Smith may have once said, there are those who draw lines in the sand just to wait and see if someone will cross it.. fault finders
Thank you for this video. I did not know what had been said. This clarifies what Bro. Wilcox said and why it became a sore point. I have always been a history buff and have studied cultures and how they rise & fall. As a convert at an older age I always presumed the ban was a social/cultural issue. Your measured thoughts on this topic confirm my initial understanding. Especially interesting to discover for me is that Brigham Young never said it was a revelation, again confirming my understanding of the ban as a social/cultural situation. The time period of Young's ban and what was happening with people from many cultural backgrounds (especially re the slave issues) over the years - negative feelings against Blacks - made it evident that the ban was an error. My supposition as to why the Lord did not act sooner to reinstate Black men to the Priesthood is that even church society was not ready for it. The evidence you presented about what various Prophets said later about why the Lord did not reverse the ban until 1978, confirms to me that the Lord had to wait until people in the Church were more ready to hear His will. Also, thanks so much for the evidence re Joseph Smith & black priesthood I knew this, but the other evidence that proves that the errors in thought (Cain, Ham, blacks by Church members (early & modern - aka rumors) )are false & not true at all. Love when the truth comes out.
I really like your point of view here. Do you think the Lord is also waiting for us to be more accepting of gay marriage before he will allow gay marriage? Elder Holland says the Brethren plead to know how to help them and be more accepting of them.
@daveanderson7179...I can understand that that is what many people think and that things in that regard will change. However, from the scriptures, these two are completely different issues. As far as the priesthood, the doctrine in the scriptures is clear: God prevents none that come unto Him: black and white, male and female, etc. I agree we need to help our brothers and sisters who struggle and don't feel like they belong, to help them see the broader perspective of who they are as a person, more than just one aspect, and how they can bless others with their gifts. But just like the rest of us, none of us are exceptions to the rules, and all of us need to follow the law of chastity if we want those blessings of being faithful to God. We are all asked to sacrifice different things in this life, and I believe each sacrifice is just as painful for each individual though they are different. It's part of our test. The scriptures and prophets have been very clear about God's laws and doctrine in this regard: marriage is between a man and a woman, and homosexual romantic behavior is a serious sin against God's law of chastity. It's been this way since before Adam and Eve, where God in scripture made it very clear to us what His mind is on this matter. This is an unchanging, eternal doctrine that has been restated in recent conferences as such, and we each get to decide on this and other doctrine if we will humbly obey and be like Christ: "Not my will, but Thine be done." Compassion and truth need to be together to help guide each of us in making decisions that have far reaching consequences for ourselves and others. This is not hate or exclusion, but true love: with both justice and mercy, boundaries and compassion.
It's pure conjecture but I have often wondered if it wasn't like the Manifesto but in reverse. This was a highly politically charged subject in the mid 1800's just prior to the civil war and taking this stance would keep the church more politically neutral and therefore less likely to be subject to repercussions from either side during the Civil War.
People don’t understand history well enough to understand that . There was a HUGE issue with slavery at the time . We were a young Church with problems enough with polygamy. People also don’t understand how main stream the Church was in giving the Priesthood when it did . It was the 1960’s to 1970’s before Black leaders were called by ANY congregations of Any religion over particularly white congregations in the USA . There were a few exceptions but as a movement it wasn’t done . Sadly racism was prevalent in ALL religions until people were ready to grow and accept that God is no respecter of persons . Bro Wilcox could have worded things much different like many of Us .
Thanks for addressing this sensitive subject. None of us are perfect…not even prophets. I agree, Wilcox is a good man, but didn’t do a good job of speaking on this matter. Back to the drawing board for him. I’m just grateful none of my mistakes have been openly published for critical review! I am not on social media at all, except for a few comments on RUclips channels such as this. God bless you for choosing to discuss controversial issues and adding your compassionate, balanced view. Glad you are healed from your illness. You were in my prayers.
I remember what an issue this was when I was young. And trying to understand why. My mother would say that in the last days every worthy member would be able to hold the priesthood. So when the announcement was made we were thrilled thinking the last days were here! And that hard question would be gone! But now, regardless of why it happened, I think the Lord allowed it to stand as a test. Kind of like Abraham and Isaac.
I am a very ordinary member of the church but I have an opinion about the inclusion of our black brothers and sisters in the gospel. I believe the biggest reason that blacks were not initially included was that the early saints were a product of their time. The majority of them, along with the majority of the rest of the world believed they were superior to the black people. They were not yet ready to include them in the gospel as equal partners. Even though they were wrong, the Lord had to work with the imperfect people he had to establish the church and gradually through time we became more enlightened. The second, less important reason was that the church needed to establish an infrastructure, both of strong leaders, and of sufficient resources to be able to convert these good Saints without chaos. I believe that because of technology, and because of a strong base of covenant people that time is now.
I do not think Brad is racist,, just unaware. Glad we are having the conversation. Nothing bad comes from honest respectful communication. All other things aside, in my mind it boils down to this....all LDS leaders thru time (150) years encountering this issue were supposed to be communing with the same source and are all over the map with their interpretation as why it is an issue and how to rectify it. Sounds like a group of men making doctrine/policy in their own mind. "God" was not involved in this at all. Just a bunch of uninspired men doing what they want and blaming either God or members of the church. Don't forget all the people affected by this and the withholding of temple blessings over that period of time. It is sad when you think about it.
Far too many members seem to base their testimony, at least in part, on the behavior of other members/leaders and/or LDS culture. The Gospel is perfect...the people aren't.
Thank you, Greg. Excellent topic and discussion again. Timely for many reasons. Grateful to you for raising my awareness, helping us discern subtext in the commotion.
I am trying to understand why people are bothered too. I read the essay “Race and the Priesthood” and I am needing help with it. The essay says the priesthood ban was theories of men and that God is not racist, which I completely agree with. So that means the prophets were just wrong about the priesthood ban. Joseph allowed black people to have the priesthood but Brigham young and the next half a dozen or so prophets were wrong about Gods will (official church essay says the church disavows the theories that were put forth on why the ban was put in place in the first place. So, God didn’t tell Brigham Young to start the ban, God didn’t tell any of the following prophets to keep the ban going, and it was corrected by President Kimball in 1978. I like this summary because it means God isn’t racist and the prophets simply made a mistake because they are human. Right?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but the implications here seems to be that you can't trust the prophets. Pretty sure that goes against what the scriptures teach.
@@shirw Not necessarily. I interpret it more to be a reminder that even prophets can still make mistake as they are still human like all of us. It may be quite disconcerting when it happens, but we need to remember that they are still trying to figure out how things work like the rest of us.
@@shirw I don’t think God ever wanted us to blindly trust prophets. We have the gift of the Holy Ghost for a reason. Elder Packer once explained that even though prophets will inevitably make mistakes and incorrect choices in their stewardship, they will never be allowed to destroy Gods plan or overall church mission. However, as human and fallible as they can be, a church still needs a leader and God only had imperfect people to work with.
@@hunterbowden7333 they make personal mistakes, they do not make mistakes in leading Christ's church. We are to pray to get our own revelation that what they say is true, not IF what they say is true.
I have started having conversations with people in the Mormon community and happened upon this video. This is an interesting talk that is going the same way as other talks, even in christianity, tend to go. With white people included into the discussion the same things are possible here as occur in the white christian church when such discussions come up. If there is no majority of whites in the conversation then there is no conversation, and especially no appearance where a conversation might take place. Next and most important there is some type of hive mind mentality given whereby one person expresses the viewpoint for others to use that most guarantees self preservation, safety, and the ability to carry on as before, irrespective of the issue, the ramifications behind it, and simply the truth. The Bible says much on the topic of racism that I don't hear much of from white evangelicals. The point is that it doesn't mean that the Bible doesn't discuss it. If the Book of Mormon is a more excellent book than the Bible then I'm sure it discusses race in greater detail, which makes all this more confusing. The context with which this discussion should be occurring then should include scripture from the Book, as opposed to a man telling us what to think with our parents' tone of voice.
You make some good comments. The problem is, if he's saying this over the pulpit in a public situation, I guarantee there are worse things/jokes/dismissive comments that he says in private. It makes him sound very naive and entitled.
First I want to say how great it is to hear that you are on the mend! You have been in my prayers. Secondly: Thank you for clarifying! Brother Palmer mentioned that you said it really well and he was correct. Great insights! 💕
It seemed to me Brad Wilcox did not do his homework before attempting to answer a question he really was not prepared to answer. I don't know if he's read Saints, Volume 2, but the church goes into detail about what was going on when Brigham Young supposedly received revelation excluding blacks from receiving the Priesthood. It is painful to read and hard to understand in our day. The best thing Brad Wilcox could have done in that moment was to simply acknowledge he did not know why the Priesthood was no longer given to our black members until 1978.
Just wondering, but was it racist for Jesus not to preach to the gentile? In addition, I can’t also help but wonder, has anyone bothered to ask the question: what would have happened to the church if there never was a ban on blacks holding the priesthood? President Woodruff was shown what would happen to the church if it did not stop polygamy. Perhaps something similar would have happened to the church if there was no ban on blacks and the priesthood, especially given many cultural feelings about blacks throughout the US at the time. Only the Lord knows the answer. But if it purely was a racist mistake by Brigham Young, why did the Lord not rescind it earlier when other prophets inquired of the Lord? I can’t help but think that there is more going on than we are entitled to know at the present time.
Greg, so glad to see you're doing well. Your thoughtful perspectives on this and other important topics of our day are greatly appreciated. Thank-you for the good work you do.
I didn't even know about this issue and I certainly have my own theories about the reason black men weren't allowed to hold the priesthood. However I see a very dogmatic approach everything that comes out of prophets and apostles mouths. I think we need to remember that these are all people with flaws. They're not perfect. They're not without fault. And we need to follow everything that they say with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. None of us are perfect none of us can be right 100% of the time. This is from Brother Oaks October 2019 I remember this specific statement being burned into my memory. As to all of these, the wise cautions of Elders D. Todd Christofferson and Neil L. Andersen in earlier general conference messages are important to remember. Elder Christofferson taught: “It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church.” Even the apostle Peter was rebuked in a dream because he assumed gentiles were unclean and weren't to be associated with. That is the beauty of God, he allows us to make mistakes, offers correction, then we can choose to change. Allow the learning and change. Allow weakness to become strength.
I was hoping that you would address this, well done, clear and to the point. It is my opinion that the youth of today are not looking for, nor do they want, to be entertained from the pulpit. They want clear and concise messaging. They are a generation that is facing challenges that require frankness and honesty, and what we are not willing to address, Goggle will. Every word is listened to and every pocket has a smart phone. You are being fact checked by your audience in real time. The speaker is either adding to their confusion or providing answers. Glad that you are feeling better, Covid is the gift that just keeps on giving.
Very good members of the church have perhaps misunderstood some of our beliefs or doctrines. This topic being one. Another could be the belief that those who come into the world from difficult circumstances were less valiant in the premortal existence. I've always wanted to know if this is true or just a misundersing. Thank you much.
What a perfect explanation on this Greg, I also didn't feel like Brad Wilcox was racist but it didn't feel right to me. I have listened to him for years and have never heard him say anything racist, he had a bad moment. Hopefully because of how he handled it, he will say more and clarify it correctly. I couldn't put my finger on it till you said the words, dismissive, insensitive and incomplete. I feel that is really what it was about. I still like the guy, I forgive him. I've made enough big mistakes in my own life to not judge others and to just leave it up to God. As far as the actual priesthood ban goes, I wish the Church would come out and clarify it with the history we have, admit Brigham Young was in error and it should never have been done move on with this. President Ezra Taft Benson gave a BYU speech in 1974, when he was an apostle “The Samuel Principle” where the children of Israel wanted a king like all the other nations, the Lord told Samuel to warn the people of the consequences, Samuel gave them the warning, the people still insisted on a king, God gave them a king and let them suffer, they learned the hard way, God wanted it to be otherwise, within certain bounds God grants men according to their desires. The point is God let’s men - even prophets make mistakes and learn from them. This applies to the lost 116 pages of the Book of Mormon, God let Joseph give the pages to Martin Harris and then let him learn from his own sad experience. God isn’t just trying to tell us stuff, he is trying to teach us stuff and I feel this is how the priesthood ban is Keep up with the excellent critiques on social issues.
Wow! Whole new angle of reasoning of the ban for me. The example of the people insisting, and God allowing, the learning to come “the hard way” even when innocents suffer the consequences….this feels right. I too, have pondered about the ban, and this is an explanation that feels right and seems logical, both for temporal and for spiritual reasoning. I have also, wondered about the temporary practice of polygamy, and intend to ponder this idea’s application to that topic as well. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts.
I do not think people often use the same definition of racism or have the same understanding of what is meant by racism. I think most people assume racism is motivated by hate or maliciousness. While that can be part of it, not all racism is hate motivated. Racism occurs when someone has their power diminished or removed because of their race. Being dismissive of someone because of their race is racism. Being dismissive of someone is a way of removing their power in a situation. The sooner we realize that we all have either implicit or explicit attitudes that are race based, the easier we will be able to address our racists attitudes. It is not about hate, I do not know Brad but I'm not about to assume he hates people. When called out for something that was unkind, intentional or not, it can be used as a learning opportunity. An opportunity to develop more empathy for others. If Brad can do that, great. And when someone apologizes, be genuine in believing that they have used this as a learning opportunity and not some cynical PR stunt. Brad did something that required an apology because he did say something stupid, we all do, and he apologized, and it should be accepted. I hope he has used this to grow.
Good Idea! I'll put it on the description. Also, here it is - www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng
Over the last several years we have as Americans (especially white Americans) come to understand that fighting a war to free slaves, creating the country with the most inclusive society on planet earth, and the greatest opportunity for freedom, education, and advancement in any possible walk of life, is simply not and NEVER WILL be enough to atone for the fact that slavery once existed o our shores. Today, any discussion of race must include multiple apologies, admissions of guilt, admissions that as white men we have no place to comment, and in general, we must admit our guilt (CRT) for every wrong perpetrated on people of color, women, and the alphabet mafia, short people, etc. Brad Wilcox attempted to explain a concept, and given the racial makeup of the Alpine area, its likely that no one of color may even have been in attendance, yet somehow here he is (another white guy) apologizing again to people who absolutely do not care (see Joe Rogan uses the N Word) what apology is given, because the point was never that anyone was actually offended, but rather that we must once again admit our "insensitivity" to the subject at hand. What a bunch of crap....why is anyone paying attention.
Where can we find official comments and understanding about this priesthood issue in history? I love the church and want to learn more so that when people ask i can talk about it.
Super happy I don’t live in Utah. It’s just too exhausting keeping up with the nonsense. Sounds like Brother Wilcox was a little sloppy with his words. He apologized, that should be the end of it. I thought we believed in forgiveness and grace?
Why is it so hard to say it was just plain wrong? Each generation is going to understand more clearly that excluding people as cursed, identified by the color of their skin is a terrible thing to pin on God. The "God's timing" excuse just keeps the issue festering. Time to move beyond it. Enough already.
Racism isn’t just tied to hate of another race it is also tied to thinking another race is inferior to another race. If you defend the idea of racism in any way you are being racist. The racist part of his talk was that the ban was all about race. His talk also implies that blacks were like children not ready to drive just because of the color of their skin which is racist. You can’t say it any other way. Even if you try to steer the context to something else like gods timing it is still racist because it was gods timing tied to racism. God was racist and now he is not? Well he still is if he is telling his followers to defend his past racist actions as valid
I took a class from brother Wilcox when I was at BYU. He is literally one of the most loving humans who truly cares about each of his students and looks at the heart. I wish I could return the giant bear hug he gave me my first day of class, now.
We need to remember that most people mean well and are good. Most of the problem is charging people from our own prospective and making them an offender for a word.
Elder Benar “One of the best indicators of our own spiritual maturity is revealed in how we respond to the weaknesses, the inexperiences, and the potentially offences actions of others.”
Thank you for some understanding of this delicate subject.
Great talk against "microagressions".
Elder Ashton said, "Perhaps the greatest charity comes when we are kind to each other, when we don't judge or categorize someone else, when we simply give each other the benefit of the doubt or remain quiet. Charity is accepting someone's differences, weaknesses and shortcomings; having patience with someone who has let us down; or resisting the impulse to become offended when someone doesn't handle something the way we might have hoped. Charity is refusing to take advantage of another's weakness and being willing to forgive someone who has hurt us. Charity is expecting the best of each other."
One of my all-time favorite quotes. Thank you for the reminder here !
This was an excellent video! I’m a black member of the church. I totally agree that I don’t think brother Wilcox was being racist. I think he was trying to say that we ignore the fact that the priesthood was taken from the earth for almost 2 thousand years. He just did a poor job in his delivery. He came across very unempathetic. What makes me upset though is that all of us say dumb things and make mistakes. Brother Wilcox has spent his life serving ALL people as a church leader and BYU religious professor. Why are we all soo quick to judge and condemn him?
Brother Collins, what a wonderful perspective you have. The idea of a Mote and a beam come to mind from your great take on the issue. What impresses me the most is your ability to see a concern in the speech and still recognize the life of service of Brother Wilcox. Thank you.
@@michaelpayne8770 wow that was so nice of you! This comment made my entire day. I wish there were more uplifting and encouraging people like you on the internet. Thanks so much for the kind, encouraging words!
What he said was incredibly insensitive and centred whiteness in a way that was dismissive of black members. And it’s not like this was the first time he’d given this talk.
Cancel virtue signaling culture. That's why.
@@debbiehoad1850 and you are the problem of this virtue signaling cancel culture.
. I have always thought that if it were necessary, in God's plan, to allow people of African decent to have the priesthood before 1978, there would have been nothing that Brigham Young or anyone else could do to keep it from happening. We forget sometimes that this is the Lord's church, not Brigham Young's church or anyone else's. As a mixed-race person, this issue bothered me when I was a teenager. So, I prayed to know the reason why. I received a peaceful assurance that God was in control. I did not get a specific answer, of course. But after that, it was no longer an issue for me.
The word "dismissive" best describes Brother Wilcox's comment from the fireside. I like Brother Wilcox and appreciate all that he does to teach and testify of Jesus Christ and His gospel.
We live in a time where we make an "offender for a word". As a black member of the Church, I'm not offended. My first identity is, as a child of God with divine potential. That being said, I understand the point Bro. Wilcox was trying to make, but I probably would not have worded it the way he did. As a side note, this must just be a Utah controversy because I haven't heard anything about it from any of my fellow LDS. I only heard about it from this youtube video.
I'm from Canada, and it's EVERYWHERE. Especially dividing our family with black children. It's a mess. Just sayin'.
@@Zelig_G this controversy is dividing your family? I'm sorry to hear that. I must be in a bubble then.
@@Zelig_G stop trolling
This is a very healthy attitude!
Thank you for giving your perspective on this it was very good👍🏻🎶
@@jabulani22shepo61 what the actual hell? I have black nephews and nieces, and I’m concerned because this talk hit them clear in Canada. I am not trolling. I am highly concerned about this kind of a talk to our youth.
I’ve pondered the priesthood ban. I struggled with this. I am a descendant of men who owned slaves. They joined the Church after the Civil war. I heard those very folklores that you spoke of on race as I grew up. I rejected those teachings! I truly believe the Lord had to prepare this people to be able have all worthy men, regardless of race, to hold the priesthood. The persecutions and the martyrdoms of Joseph Smith were, in part, because of the issue of slavery. It has taken many generations to soften the hearts of good men who were taught bigotry. My Grandfather was a good man. He was the son and grandson of men who truly believed in those fables you spoke of. I believe that was a destructive teaching in my family. Anytime we preach hatred towards a race of God’s children it says more about the haters than the hated. Healing this kind of breach takes time. Sometimes many generations of time.
Figured I'd comment to add some diversity in the thread😊😅. I'm a convert to the church (from MD), for 26 years now 💪🏿. I consider myself a faithful and valiant member. Went to Ricks college/BYUI, served a mission, married in the temple with kids, living in Utah etc...I think Bro. Wilcox had good intentions but his execution was bad🤦🏿♂️. It's all good, you live and learn. He is a good man and he isn't racist. I wasn't offended by what he said just that his approach was off. That's all. This doesn't change my testimony of Savior and his church one bit!
At the end of the day this topic is really about Lord's timing and us not having all the details/answers for now. So the natural thing to do as humans is apply logic the best way our limited minds have to fill in the gaps. Time will come when we ALL will be revealed. We have to trust and have faith that Heaven Father knows what he is doing 😇. This is what we covenanted in the temple right? We are his instruments to build the kingdom remember...
Now that I'm on my soap box😆, my opinion about blacks and priesthood is truly about timing. If the Lord permitted this in full force I feel this would have frustrated the work and caused a lot persecution and harm in carrying out the gospel at that time. Look how the country was functioning then, still had slavery and a lot prejudices and horrible philosophies about blacks in the country. Look at all the social issues blacks had to endure (segregation, Jim Crow laws, not being allowed to vote, marry other races etc.) It just wasn't the right time for us🤷🏿♂️. The whole civill rights movement had to happen first. Its a sensitive topic for sure and I feel that the Lord foresaw the future of his children and what the world was going to do. So instead of forcing his will (which he'll never do) he wanted us to WAIT, as hard as it is. Father knows best! When the world and his children are ready he will tell us. He is all knowing and has infinite wisdom.
In the meantime, lets keep having open conversations with love and empathy, correcting the false folklores and rumors with TRUTH and doing good to all men. 💯 #patience #TheLordsTime #TheLastDays #WheatFromTares
My brother, your comments are spot on. I am also a black convert from DC. Started out in Primary at age 10. I am not offended either, as I have followed Bro. Wilcox and know he is not racist. I fully understand his point. I have even made the same argument he was making about the priesthood to close family members. You are absolutely right about the Lord's timing. If one is an unbiased observer and in-tuned to the spirit, it is easy to see that the Lord's timing was correct, for all the reasons you mentioned.
@@fidtru8615 Glad to hear my brother! 🤝🏿 You are absolutely correct! Everything we read in the scriptures is happening today, its just that we have technology and internet haha.
I appreciate you testimony and perspective. The more i study about history, the world is extremely complicated. People get off track when left to their own devices.
I trust Gods timing on all things pertaining to his children.
I'm kind of wondering if we were at Ricks together. 1999-2001.
@@mca4093 yes indeed my guy! So true! I went to Ricks College for 2 semester and the 3rd semester it changed to BYUI. Its was 2000 to 2002. 😏
Good comment my brother. I'm black in the south. This has nothing to do with us. These white folks playing on blacks folks emotions for their own benefit. This conversation about Bro. Wilcox comments being racist doesn't even fit the definition of racism. How did his comments mistreat black people last week. This is crazy stuff so I never entertain this stuff because it's none constructive and doesn't produce justice.
I don't necessarily agree with Bro Wilcox, but I think it needs to be okay in society, especially our own church culture to be able to offer ideas without being shouted at. Bro Wilcox did not say "Thus sayeth the Lord...", he said, "Maybe...." and then shared an opinion or question that he has thought about, presumably an idea that has helped him to shift his focus of the priesthood to it's purpose. I always like Greg Matson's reasoned approach to the topics, and usually agree, nevertheless, I am able to hear Wilcox's opinion and make my own conclusions.
I agree with Greg, we need to talk about the details, but do we need to talk about them every time? It's exhausting to say every possible view every time a subject is discussed. I hope we can all be strong enough to hear each other, and be strong enough to disagree and not be angered, triggered or feel attacked if we don't agree.
Thanks for the discussion Greg.
I lost a brother in 2021 to cancer. He was a devout and faithful member of this church. He went on his mission to Georgia-South Carolina. He always felt bad about our black brothers and sisters not having access to priesthood and Temple blessings. He felt that the church should have apologized to our dear black brothers and sisters, but nothing was ever spoken about it in Conference. My brother thought that the idea that our black brothers and sisters were from Cain couldn't be true because they were killed during the flood. I know that Elijah Able was given the priesthood by Joseph Smith, and he was faithful in his service. Jane Manning and her family walked to find the prophet Joseph until they had bloody feet when they arrived. Emma and Joseph loved Jane and wanted to adopt her, but she said she already had a family. She said to Brigham Young, "Am I not worthy to enter the Lord's Temple and progress?" But she didn't seem to receive an understanding of why she wasn't allowed. My brother, Clay, was told never to approach the black people by the church, unless they came to him first. Clay and my family always felt that had Joseph lived, things would have been different. I'm thankful that President Kimball, my cousin, was the one who received the answer that all worthy males could receive the priesthood. I know Brigham Young was a prophet, but apparently in some of his writings in the Journal of Discourses, I believe, he said some horrible things about the black people. I was in shock when Clay read me such horrible things. Doesn't the Book of Mormon state, all come unto me, black, white, bond or free, and even the heathen. All are alike unto God. I have actually been treated better by my black brothers and sisters than people in my church. They love the Lord, and they have prayed for me when I've been sick. Darias Grey, a wonderful, faithful member of the church wanted to join the church when he first heard the gospel, but when the missionaries told him he couldn't have the priesthood, he couldn't believe that. He was a young man then and went home and prayed to the Lord about this. He was told that this was the true restored church of Jesus Christ, and that he was to join. Nothing was said about the priesthood. He was faithful until President Kimball's revelation. Until my brother died, he always felt bad that no apology or explanation was offered. I have cried for them as well. David O. MacKay felt bad too, but many of the Apostles didn't agree, so it appears that those hoping for this blessing had to wait for those men to die off before President Kimball could ask the Lord. There was a curse on Ham and his son for something that happened to Noah, but it is unclear. In scripture it mentions that this righteous Pharaoh was blessed for his righteousness but cursed as pertaining to the priesthood. I've never understood why the children should suffer for the sins of the parents. Look at the second article of faith. I hope the Lord tells us some day, but it doesn't seem fair. Shortly before President Kimball received this revelation, my mother had a dream. She said the streets were sparkling and there was a beautiful mansion like in the South. She saw all these beautiful, happy black people in white rejoicing. She wondered why she had that dream, and then President Kimball came out with the revelation. Then she realized why. As a family, we never saw color. We looked at the heart. Many black brothers and sisters have suffered terrible abuses by members of our church, and still they have been faithful. One bishop told this sweet black family that they were not welcome, and the father asked if he could at least bring in his tithing. He taught his family at home. I found that story absolutely disgusting. We should know better. If we are not one, how will we ever be a Zion people.😢
I’m grateful that you have overcome sickness. Heavenly Father watches over you. Keep up your good work. Thank you for the discussion.
I am so glad you brought up the BYU statement. That really angered me that they basically through a great, fellow BYU professor/Gospel warrior under the bus. That truly was spineless of them.
Hey Greg, glad you're back! Since I'm not really on social media anymore (other than RUclips) I learned about this through my brother-in-law. I ended up finding a video of his talk here on RUclips and saw many angry and anti comments. One of the concerns I do have is that so many people seem to be basing their testimony, or idea of the Church, mainly on the people in the church. I disagreed with the tone and delivery of some of what Brad Wilcox said. But it doesn't uproot my testimony. Yet I saw many comments encouraging members that if they feel uncomfortable listening to his talk, it's time for them to leave the church, and I saw people agreeing that they're looking elsewhere or feeling its time to leave.
In my life I've been misjudged by church members, including bishops and stake Presidents. I've also disagreed with certain things the church is doing. Such as pushing and funding vaccines, and some of the things the church is involved in monetarily (stocks, business, charities). But it doesn't uproot the testimony I do have and so I have no problem staying because I go to church to worship God and try to better myself. Perhaps you talk about this further in your video, I'm not done watching yet, but what do you think can be done to help shift the focus of some people from looking so much at church leaders to be perfect, instead of basing their testimony on something deeper? Of course we need to have a testimony of prophets and apostles being called of God. Without that we can't acknowledge their authority from God. I just worry when I see people I care about focusing too much on members/leaders personal actions and turning them away from the church, or turning them away from ever joining.
I think we need to focus more on the words of the First Presidency, Apostles, and the scriptures. While everything else can add context and widom, a lack of the other puts us into the whirlwind of instant information. Also, regular prayer.
We need to learn to filter other voices, even other Church leaders. Take the good and leave the rest behind. They are normal people that make errors like the rest of us and they're just doing their best.
There are exmormon trolls out there who come-off as members encouraging folks to leave the Church if they are 'uncomfortable' over Brad Wilcox's, Elder Holland's or any of the other talks. It is never time to leave unless members are dead set on kicking themselves out. I would tell them to hang in there and focus on the prize. A Zion people are one in purpose, one in patience and one in the Savior. I think there are going to be much bigger challenges ahead that will make these blazes look like campfires. Bring it on.
I see this A LOT! People need to get a life.
Sadly many members are convinced that EVERY possible thing a Church leader says or does is straight from The Lord , this Never ends well . One of my local leaders actually said exactly this thing recently at Church . So whatever football team an Apostle cheers for tomorrow is the “holy team “ ? What if a Seventy likes another team ? Church leaders have preferences and ways of doing things like EVERY other person on Earth . Bro. Wilcox is a personal favorite at our house and We love him dearly …We already knew he wasn’t perfect . There is NO reason for the Prophet to repeatedly ask people to “Hear Him” if Leaders were perfect in ALL things . Follow the Prophet , he knows the way still holds true , but this demand for perfection is not true . Like Joseph would say to those that demand perfection …I won’t expect it of you if you don’t expect it of me .
@@tomasina10 You mean - follow the current prophet, but I'm so scared of Oaks on the matter of our LGBTQ+ children. I personally wouldn't be so glib about following the prophet. I don't think this mother bear can do it on this issue.
I also want to add these words that are meant to heal All souls. Brad teaches this: "Don't you dare let the world make a mark on you! You were born to make mark on it!"
And how do we do that? Brad teaches we do that by understanding who we ALL are in Christ. That is Brad's truth and the message he has always tried to make. Please know his intentions are always pure.
This was beautiful. Thank you, Greg, for helping unpackage this situation for people. I agree with exactly what you said. We cannot ignore the dismissive nature of Bro. Wilcox's remarks, but that doesn't mean he needs to be "cancelled". We can uphold him as a leader of the Church, while simultaneously holding him accountable for the errors in his remarks - not as a way to punish him, but as a way to improve the narrative in the Church revolving the ban on the Priesthood.
I would not be surprised if your episode is where MANY in the Church will have heard Brigham Young's history regarding this topic and the fact that it did not arise out of revelation. I thoroughly appreciate when, as members, we are able to speak frankly about the past without feeling like we need to leave the Church and essentially throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Thank you
This comment is very well stated. I feel much the same. I have held many callings in the church and have felt the Lord's influence in using this very very very imperfect tool to do some good. The original 12 apostles were imperfect humans, stumbling along a path with imperfect minds but willing hearts. Those without sin cast the first stone.......there is a great message in that statement and we must remember to look at ourselves and others with this context, especially when a fellow brother or sister have expressed sorrow, not for evil intentions, but for simply being an imperfect human being just trying to do their best.
Thank you for addressing this issue and sharing the historical background and being fair and objective to both sides of the issue and not giving in to the emotions and not tearing down.
Brad Wilcox is a good man, a God-fearing man. This is a prime example of how members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not perfect. Jesus will make everything right soon enough, let's keep spreading His love till then!
Just months after the announcement in 1978 that all worthy black males could receive the priesthood, my mission companion and I met a wonderful black family from Trinidad living in Caracas, Venezuela and taught and baptized them into the church The black people I know are spiritual giants and add so much to God’s restored church!
I LOVE that Brother Wilcox apologized as soon as it was brought to his attention and he was able to see the way his words were insensitive and dismissive. Leaders like Brad will help stop people from leaving the church because they apologize. So many church leaders won’t apologize for making mistakes, and make excuses of why they are justified. While it was bad for some of us to hear it strengthens my testimony that he was willing to be like the Savior wants us to be and apologize when we do something wrong.
Only where apology is appropriate. I’m not into the fake/forced apologies to appease cancel culture demands. See John McEnroe.
I’m a church member with mixed races parents, This folklore ride my black father out of church he was a great member of church but a lot of racism on the 70th’s . My self suffer racism when I married my ex white husband even bishop talked to him to tell him I’m black. So this Fireside talk was like you said insensitive. Can’t affect my testimony because I know who I am. But can affect early birds on church! 😌😌😌😌
Love the testimony!
I am impressed that Brother Wilcox recognized the healthy opinions of his message being insensitive and I understanding and apologized. We all make mistakes and apologies help us get past hurtful things that people do.
I’m sorry you have experienced that. I’m sorry your father did too. I’m sorry a bishop was so insensitive.
I’m thrilled that you are not shaken but solid in the gospel!
God bless you
Thank you for the kindness!
Greg, thank you for your always balanced perspective on church issues. This is a good time for us Saints to look at the heart of people, rather than the outward appearance (1 Samuel 16:7). I had a similar situation happen to me while being a guest speaker in a seminary class. I said a few words in the class that were kind of shocked the kids. My words were well meaning, but kids went home and told their parents and parents immediately called the stake president complaining. And I had to have a conversation with the stake president. He told me he had to go in and do "damage control" to the seminary class the day after my visit. For months I felt extremely down and depressed because of the incident. I've had 40 years of serving in the church, many were teaching callings and I've never had any complaints. I can only imagine what Brother Wilcox is feeling right now. He probably feels such extreme embarrassment that he'd like to find a rock and climb under it till he dies. I feel for him. I really do. But thanks for your even handed analysis of this incident.
And we APPRECIATE men and women with PURE & GOOD service to God's people.
Yes, we all can learn from each other, but I'm TIRED of people having to APOLOGIZE for being BORN, let alone speaking with a conscience...
Jesus said to "Love one another as I have loved you.."
NOT "Be the world's doormat to PUSH the critical race theory agenda.."
CRT is Socialist.
Socialism is Communist.
Communism is of the DIRTY OLD DEVIL HIMSELF!
I hope you know that people LOVE AND CARE ABOUT you AND this gentleman who is being DRAGGED through the mud
👍🏻🙏🏼
I believe that it should be presumed that most people have profitable intentions when speaking. And, given this situation, it does not appear that the individual delivering the message had hurtful intentions. But, giving the probability that his intentions were meant for edification, I can not agree that he is embarrassed nor even to an extreme degree. If this had been his first time stating his position, then maybe so. But, and you can find it online, this is not his first time he has made the same comments. He’s been recorded at least on one other occasion. And, since he’s said it more than once, he’s had the thought or has even stated his thought on other occasions as well.
I am so grateful that the Lord spared your life and allowed you to keep helping us sort through all that is going on concerning the church, it’s leaders and members, BYU, and today’s challenges. I agree with your perceptions and conclusions on this particular issue, and I will continue to pray for you and your health and for our church leaders as they do their best to guide us through these last days.
Its almost like "worthiness is not flawlessness." To those pointing the finger screaming, they will be given the same amount of mercy.
Maybe you don't understand. There has been no mercy already, that's why people are speaking out. Members seem to be just fine when leaders call "apostates", LGBT or nonmembers, or other religions names or compare them to demeaning metaphors. It's not right, but like I said, members appear to be fine with it, no questions asked.
I loved the insight, but i think we have to be careful to rip on Brigham Young. I’ve noticed a trend in the church to act as if Joseph Smith was perfect but Brigham Young caused all the problems of the church today. That’s not okay, I’m not saying you’re doing that, but Brigham Young was just as much a prophet of God as was smith. Priesthood restrictions are biblical and that’s just a fact and it shouldn’t be overlooked and laid all at the feet of Brigham young. No prophet gets more discredited than Young. I don’t have all the answers, but it’s biblical that priesthood has been restricted by god. It’s biblical it’s not all about blaming president Young.
I totally agree with your assessment. He wasnt being racist but he was being completely tone-deaf to the pain that people have felt over this issue.
I think it is very appropriate for Brad Wilcox's message to be heavily critiqued and discussed as it has been. Discussing the message, it's delivery, and what was problematic about it is appropriate and has nothing to do with his kind and compassionate reputation. Anyone who accepts a leadership position in what they are claiming is the one and only true church upon the face of the earth should be held to a higher standard.
I'm a white woman and even though the Levites were the custodians and exercisers of the priesthood ALL were able to worship at the temple. The thought that a loving Heavenly Father would exclude worthy members from participating in eternal covenants is a point of struggle in my testimony. Thankfully I know the Savour Jesus Christ's love for us all.
Thank you for telling how the policy came into the church very enlightening. Which brings to mind the article of faith that says we will be punished for our own sins and not Adam's trangressions as well as God is no respector of persons. I'm so confused the more I learn about this subject. Thanks again for time energy and thoughtful effort that goes into your program.
I think that his comments weren’t necessarily to devalue the real hardship with not having a clear answer as to why there was a racial ban. I think that he’s also proposing that we don’t have the answers in general, and that there are serious questions about the Lord’s timing and the restoration of the priesthood that we don’t have all the answers to. Great discussion. It’s a shame that BYU still hasn’t grown a spine and feels the need to do damage control by “washing their hands of it” to avoid any backlash coming back to them.
Thank you for this informative video.
I could have lived without the youth being unduly-influenced by fear, e.g. you'll lose everything if you leave the church. Appropriate? A number of impressionable youth are already right on the edge, and they certainly don't need this sort of anxiety-inducing talk. In my estimation, those who, in their pursuit of immediate, short term results, employ such methods (even unintentionally), are seriously shortsighted,
That said, I agree that Professor Wilcox (or anyone else for that matter) shouldn't be "cancelled".
I've seen Brad Wilcox teach efy as an efy counselor, I've had him as a Book of Mormon teacher at BYU, and now we have seen him give a conference talk. He changes his style for each one, keep in mind a youth devotional will have 11 year olds at it. He has also been doing this a long time, so I think he's probably keeping a similar style to what he was doing in 2008. I do think we should be more direct with these topics and put the facts out there, warts and all. It should have been worded differently. But people are behaving as if this was something he said in a gospel doctrine class that was all about this ban. It was something he briefly addressed in a talk that covered tons of other topics and it was to youth, some of which were probably not at the age to fully engage with the fuzzy lines that sometimes occur with Church doctrine. I personally think I'll wait till my kids are 15ish to go into full in-depth discussions about this.
Bro. Greg, thank you so much for standing up for my black African people who were indeed excluded from receiving the priesthood. I have a black African Mama and a white European Papa, yes I am Métis and how proud and grateful I am for this wealth that I can represent. And yet I would not have dared to come out like you do to give my view because then it would have been just an opinion.
I have been a member for 41 years and was baptized in February 1980. I got to see and hear and experience so much. Much more than if I had just been white. With this I want to say that our H. Father was always close to me and strength and has learned so much about my fellow man (his children) and about our leaders. For a while I was very angry when reading statements and luckily I always knew how to rely on the miracles the many miracles in my life that only He my Father could give me. Because of this, I knew that our leaders make mistakes just like me. I have also always inquired about that one or more revelations in which I could read how and why my black brother or sister were excluded and despised and so on and all this in that beautiful pure church! Only my H. Father understood me and my Savior carried me and wiped many tears for this sorrow. Thank you again for standing up for our black brothers and sisters so clearly and forcefully. I wish you joy and Father's rich blessings. Greetings from Belgium
Yeeea
So much of the controversy over this could be avoided by listening carefully to the Lord's Spirit after sincere prayer. The Lord's Spirit will not lie to us. We can really know what it is Heavenly Father wants us to say, do and think about the subject. Then we have a choice to accept Truth as our Father in Heaven defines it or we can choose to deny His Truth and redefine this and call it our own "truth". If a Church leader misspeaks or are insensitive...well....they are human. Humans do that from time to time. This is why we have the Lord's Spirit to show us truth from error. Good on Brother Wilcox for apologizing. One time President Gordon B Hinckley said something to me in passing that was not becoming of the Lord's Prophet. I dismissed it immediately because I was aware he had some issues on this point, and really didnt think it was a big deal....but he did and he sent me a formal letter of apology signed by the first presidency. I was stunned! God bless our leaders. People are always looking for a reason to reduce them in their own and others eyes. It's like a symptom of an illness within.
The real question is: why did men who talk with God get it so wrong? Which begs the question: Why are you believe they talk with God? Greg, why would the later prophets object to lifting the ban because of the lack of prophecy to do so if they weren’t convinced it was implemented by prophecy? Were they just clueless as to how this whole prophetically lead doctrine works? This is getting ridiculous and I believe it’s going to come to a head. The members of the church are waking up to the truth. If David o Mackey received a prophecy to not lift the ban then that is revelation saying the ban is from God. I’m sorry but it doesn’t work any other way.
as an ex mormon, i agree that he wasn't being a racist. those that call him a racist is the ones that just want to criticize the mormon church or those who are into cancel culture movement for whatever reason it is.
Thanks Greg. Well said. As someone old enough to remember how things were in the South in the 70's, things were still very complicated and segregated. For instance my family lived in a small town in Oklahoma where it was literally divided by a railroad track. On one side was the white part of town, on the other the black part. As a young white woman I was expected to have only white kids at my house. That was a stupid rule and I didn't follow it. It didn't take long before a couple of the black young men were beaten up because they were at my house. It was very shocking to me because I was just following MLK and his dream. My friends were good people. The race issue in America has been so volatile for so long. I feel bad for those Brethren who were trying to fix it. I literally wept when the announcement was made in
1978. I personally feel that it's time to have the black members explain things. Elder Peter Jackson would have been great at it. I haven't seen Elder Wilcox's talk so I can't comment on that but thank you for addressing it. You always tackle the hard issued. I hope you're getting stronger every day.
Thank you! These are tough issues that can only be solved by the Gospel.
Trying to see as God sees, could the reason for the ban on blacks receiving the priesthood have anything to do with the Lord commanding the saints to go west. Why did the Lord send the saints West? Was it to protect his Kingdom and Church from the devastation of the conflict between the North and South states and the Civil war? What would have happened to His Church if the saints had stayed in Illinois during this conflict? I find it interesting that the ban continued during the Civil Rights Movement. What would have happened to His Church had the church taken a position on blacks? Was God protecting His Church and black members from serious persecution from members still believing in the culture's belief at the time that blacks were less human than whites? It's interesting how many Africans were waiting to be baptized during the ban. It's interesting that by 1978, the culture had changed enough respecting black and their status in society to allow now all worthy males to enjoy the priesthood once again. I was alive at the time of Pres. Kimball's announcement to the world. Since then, I have had an extraordinary experience on my mission in Curitiba Brasil with Apostle David B. Haight. He spoke personally what he experienced in the upper room of the Salt Lake Temple when the revelation came. He shared this while having his arm around one of the beautiful black sister serving in our mission. There's was not a single dry eye in that chapel as he shared his experience of what happened as the revelation came to his living prophet. We don't know why earlier prophets didn't receive the revelation sooner. Those prophets did ask, but only to be told the time is not now. My reasoning may not be the reason for the removing the ban sooner, but it sure seems God is protecting His Church and people during this time.
Haven’t heard of this until now but Ive heard Brother Wilcox in other talks and I believe he is an honorable man. People need to stop being so sensitive.
Brad is a man of service and dedication to the Lord for sure. He has sincerely apologized for saying the hurtful wrong things.please don’t say the problem is people being sensitive. The priesthood ban is a very difficult and challenging topic and Brad Wilcox was very flippant and insensitive about a topic that deserves thoughtful and appropriate handling. By saying people are just being to sensitive it harms our black brothers and sisters that mean so much to us and our Heavenly Father.
I like how you just want to know the truth. You're not a pure apologist. You are willing to admit there were errors. You're very faithful to God, and you recognize we all make mistakes. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging these things.
Kind words. Thank you!
Greg, you said we don't know the reason for the ban and that's absolutely right. The problem is, people in and out of the Church have taken the Church disavowing previous theories and reasons given for the ban as an excuse to come to state as fact the only conclusion they personally can come up with - that the reason for the ban was just racism, only racism, nothing else involved but racism, and its as simple as that.
This is, frankly, the lazy and simplistic approach. While not discounting that race attitudes of the day played a role, we have to remember that several prophets up to President Kimball appealed to the Lord for years to change the policy and they received no answer or were specifically told no by the Lord. You mentioned President McKay's account of being told no by the Lord.
Obviously the Lord could have stepped in and corrected things at any time over the years. The fact He didn't at least suggests in my mind there was more to it than it just being a big mistake, as the result of racism alone, and there was nothing else to it.
Help me understand how Brigham Young telling a specific race (black) of people that they can’t have the priesthood or that black women can’t participate in temple ordinances isn’t racist? We need to quit saying it isn’t racism. Acknowledge it was disavowed theories of me just like the current official answer from the “Race and the priesthood” essay states. We will be able to repent and move on only after we all stop saying it wasn’t racism, it was something else. No, we need to confess the sin, say sorry and not do it again. Your opinion is not what the Church essay states and is causing black brothers and sisters to continually be harmed because people are not confessing the sin and repenting. We all have to be willing to repent. Even our most loved prophets and apostles have made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes.
The Church is trying to help us understand this:
“Admitting the errors in our own thinking is sometimes the most difficult part of understanding Church history because it takes humility to change our expectations and assumptions after we learn they are incorrect.”
www.thechurchnews.com/living-faith/2022-02-03/keith-erekson-ensign-college-devotional-what-latter-day-saints-get-wrong-about-living-prophets-expectations-revelation-jesus-christ-241732
That part is very interesting. I remember some of the brethren at the time theorized the Lord may have been waiting for the members to fully prepare themselves for the policy to be changed before giving the revelation.
That part is very interesting. I remember some of the brethren at the time theorized the Lord may have been waiting for the members to fully prepare themselves for the policy to be changed before giving the revelation.
@@daveanderson7179 Nobody said racist attitudes of the day didn't play a role. I'm saying it's lazy and dishonest to claim, as many do, that racism was the ONLY factor involved. Especially when, as the Church has said, we don't know the reasons and, as President Oaks said, when we make up own reasons we're on our own.
I've read the Church essay many times. And while it does a good job of explaining the context of the issue in that day and leading up to the 1978 revelation, it doesn't touch on everything including the accounts of different prophets imploring the Lord for guidance and change and getting no answer or specifically being told no. To ignore that is dishonest and not looking at the whole matter.
Furthermore, who exactly is the Church supposed to apologize to? Most members of African descent today have never been denied anything. And any acting like they have been is akin to some modern day female members of the Church taking umbrage to the teaching of plural marriage when they were never asked to practice it in the first place. Considering all the Church is and has to offer, in terms of eternity, if anyone is still getting hung up on a policy that ended 44 years ago, the problem is their's. Not the Church's.
Moreover, who is supposed to make this apology? If any members, white, black, or whatever, want to take it up with Brigham or his successors up to President Kimball when they get to the other side, they can but I don't see it going well for them.
And while they're at it, they can also go gripe to the Lord Himself. After all, He could have stepped in any time between the 1850s and 1970s and corrected this "sin" you speak of but He didn't. In fact, as we've said, He specifically told Presidents like David O. McKay and Harold B. Lee to NOT change the policy. But I guess we're just supposed to overlook that and just go with the easy, politically correct explanation.
@@stevec8861 Again, the Lord specifically told President McKay no, that it would not be in his lifetime, and to not bring it up again. But you appear to be willfully ignoring that because the thought there may be more to it is uncomfortable to you.
"For those who don't believe in modern revelation there is no adequate explanation. Those who do understand revelation stand by and wait until the Lord speaks. It's only a matter of time before the black achieves full status in the Church. - Harold B. Lee (1972)
Wow. This has given me a lot of clarity on the issue of the priesthood ban and addressed some questions and concerns I had about the length of it.
Glad to hear it!
Despite the specifics of Brad Wilcox's comments, we are in real danger of supressing debate. It is increasingly difficult to hold and express an opinion with being declared a proponent of hate speech. Watch the expression of religious views become banned and those that speak them; ostracised.
It's going to be difficult to navigate. Rules, the Word Police, and most important politics.
You can't expect abusive language to be protected by freedom of religion. Brad was belittling, condescending at the very least. People need to be able to recognize verbal abuse in their own religions, because it is not sanctioned by God.
@@alananat6628 I agree with you on some aspects of the talk, especially the part about other religions “playing church”. But I find the overreaction to his point about the Priesthood not always being available, and insisting it was a racist statement being a typical SJW, lefty response. This reaction is everywhere and it’s poison.
Agree with you about the suppression of debate. However, don't see religious views being banned or even suppressed. If anything, people's civic liberties are being compromised at the expense of religious liberties. And with the new conservative Supreme Court which decides cases on the basis of a political agenda, only see this expanding ultimately with an increasing backlash on religion in society overall. Especially with younger Americans who will continue to leave religion in droves.
I've been waiting for your video about this since I saw this trending on Twitter 🍿
I am thankful for the Church sharing pure history of the Church to help us understand the things that is happening in the Church. Why we do what we do, why receive this and that, why things are done and how it was done.
To me as a non-Mormon but of pioneer Mormon stock, both the polygamy issue and the priesthood issue coincide with the US government coming in and saying fix this or else. I doubt there would be so much hoopla if both of these issues were not intertwined with the government.
Thank you Greg, I felt the Spirit during your comments and also clarity. I appreciate your voice of calmness in this situation.
Thank you for your comments. I don't read books by LDS authors anymore, because there is so much erroneous information in them. I wish I had never read some books that said terrible things about black people. I was also told to never criticize leaders of the Church. So much heartache has been caused by insensitive Church leaders. There is a reason why the scriptures say "preach nothing but repentance."
You shouldn't read any books in the world if you apply that principle to the church. You couldn't even live in america based on your comment and I'm a black man.
I'm not sure I understand why being dismissive of racial issues isn't racist.
The comparison of the priesthood and temple ban to the Levites holding the priesthood is not fine. It is not analogous to the conversation about Black priesthood holders (aside from the fact that Moses married an Ethiopian woman, so one might surmise that there were at least some black Levites); restricting priesthood *to* one narrow part of the faithful is not the same as restricting priesthood (and temple blessings!) *from* one narrow part of the faithful.
16:35- Sort of? These accounts are second and third hand and contradict one another.
17:05- "Brigham Young certainly did not give them the clarity on this." This is not an accurate statement. As you pointed out, Brigham Young explained why he was implementing the ban: because of the curse of Cain. Now it's certainly possible, probably likely, that they were unfamiliar with the documents that explained this, but that's different.
18:25- You attribute this statement about "a contradictory and confusing legacy of racist religious folklore" to the First Presidency. Can you please provide the reference for this? From my searching, it appears to originate with Armand Mauss.
21:04- This is no longer accurate. Again, as you pointed out, Brigham Young explains why he implements the ban.
23:44- How has Brother Wilcox been canceled?
25:23- Right. Would had Brother Wilcox said that rather than disparage other religions.
27:55- I hope if we can disseminate accurate history about the priesthood and temple ban this won't be the case.
I'm reminded that the priesthood was returned to all men that is the worthy men of the church in the beginning. Yes Brad Wilcox could have included that in his comments, and that would have been the best way, because we know it's true. Considering Elijah Abel and others received the priesthood before it got perverted by those who lean towards the side of racist ideology. But again when people are looking for fault they will find fault and then see nothing else but fault
Accountability for one's words and actions has always been taught in church. Brad has been doing this for years, and many other leaders are fine with it too.
It is obvious that we have more to learn on this issue as striving members of the church. What is also obvious is the pointing finger of scorn that is manifesting in laser-focused attacks against the church and its members. These attacks will not stop but only get worse--take your vitamins and get your rest! : ) I feel for Brother Wilcox and pray that all inlvoved will learn what the Lord needs us to learn.
I'm saddened by all these judgements. The Savior knows all our hearts. He desires to heal all our pains and sorrows. If we are unwilling to accept apologies then how can we be recipients of the Saviors gift to forgive us of our sins and follies. Allow Christ to repair the injustices, by applying the gift of the Atonement. We are all imperfect. We are asked to love one another.
Yay!! Your back!! You've had quite to month and I'm sooooo glad your back scratchy voice or not!! Your doing God's work!!!
Thank you!
Hi greg, i have always respected your podcast. I thought you would take complete side with those on the side of wilcox. My respect for you has grown. I agree, it was not racist and i don't believe he had bad intentions but it was insensitive. Unfortunately when people live in a bubble and are surrounded only with those they agree with, this is the result. I wish he had provided more context and worded it differently but noneone is perfect. We should all be forgiving.
Thank you!
Brother Wilcox was defending the faith from the attacks the members of the church are starting to come to terms with. The church was clearly racist and that includes never who say the communicate with the Lord. I’m sorry but the church should be apologizing for doing what Brother Wilcox was trying to defend.
Anthony . I do think brother Wilcox was trying to defend the church and prophets from attacks . Especially on Brigham young . But like he says if we put ourselves n our black members shoes and see how they may feel then we can see his use of words could have been better . I’m glad he did apologize . Actually he made a second apology . He is was very sincere .
Hello, thanks for your insights on this. Knowing the Wilcox's and in fact being cousins by our joint G-grandfather, I guarantee, Brad simply cannot have racist thoughts. There is not enough room in him to think negatively about anyone. As well his apology, I promise you, was said with true tears of sorrow for the pain his words may have caused. Please people, look at his 40 years of worthy credits; all the books, talks for youth, EFY, Seminary, Institute; thousands of talks and through the ripple effect, tens of thousands of people whose lives were changed because of his words and stories. If you understand this, you will see this was just a mishap & not the measure of this dear man. He is not dismissive of anyone-that is simply not him.
You speak a lot, right Brother? Sometimes, we all frame things differently than we mean. It's a hazard of giving so many talks. Different topics sometimes melt into another. I think that's what happened. Please, judge this sweet man by his works, not a few unintended statements.
God bless you sweetie, and your WONDERFUL family 💞🤍🕊
I COMPLETELY believe what you're saying 🫂
It is not unusual for drivers to become tired and run off the road… there were more offensive remarks than those referencing the priesthood. He drove like a tired man out of control all over that ‘road’.
My perspective on this whole cancel culture is why are we excepting as a society that a small handful of people get to tell everyone else how to think, what to say, what to believe, who we can socialize with, etc. The only opinion that should matter to anyone is the opinion of God. Because when we are all dead and gone that’s all we have is the truth of God.
Thank you Greg. I’m new to your channel this year and enjoy it. I have a couple questions. 1- is there a transcript of his talk anywhere? I’ve been unable to find it. I won’t judge someone’s words based on an excerpt. I would like to better understand the context of his entire talk before I assume what he was trying to communicate. I appreciate that you are doing the same and have shared a little more than just the couple sentences most are posting.
2- is it correct to say his talk (or at least this portion of it) was about God’s timing and not about Blacks and the priesthood? If not please correct me. But if so, I don’t think he should have explained more about Blacks and the priesthood. That was not the point of his talk. If the point was to help the youth understand that sometimes things don’t happen in life when we want them to or think they should- then delving deeper into other topics would have been a a digression from his point. Was he not just using waiting for the priesthood as an example of waiting on the Lord?
To me it seems he worded it poorly and was insensitive inasmuch as he didn’t think through how his words would be taken out of context. Was his point- worded better- something more like this:
We ask why did the Blacks have to wait over 150 years to receive the priesthood. It is a good question and was a difficult time for our Black brothers and sisters who we love. Another similar question we could ask is why did the entire world have to wait over 1700 years after the death of the apostles to receive the priesthood?
Brother Wilcox made several points, the one most in question was on the priesthood, not timing.
Here is a link to his entire talk - ruclips.net/video/zqB8UmnNcqk/видео.html
@@CwicShow thanks for your quick reply Greg. I just listened to most of his talk. I think understand the point he was making. It was - yes- the Blacks had to wait for priesthood. So did the whites. So did every other race. So did the gentiles have to wait until after the Jews, etc. let’s just be grateful we have the priesthood. He could have worded it better but I suspect most youth he was speaking to understood his point no problem. I’ll bet most anyone would not have thought much about it if they were just listening to his talk in it’s entirety. It’s only a huge deal because people looking for mistakes called it out and put their own incorrect interpretation on it (falsely claiming he is a racist). Was his comment a little insensitive to blacks- not thinking through that it may have hurt some of their feelings? Probably. But I could also see an honest in heart black member taking what he said to heart and studying more about why the gentiles did not have the priesthood right away etc. Anyway- he regrets not wording it better and he will likely be more careful in the future how he words things knowing there are those out to get him ready to pounce.
By the way- shortly after this part of his talk he went into depth about why women “don’t have the priesthood “. I thought it was done extremely well- especially for a youth audience.
Everyone just settle down and stop assuming ill intent. He should clarify himself, but being quick to offense is not helpful, lifts nobody up, and kills open and free discussion. Its also too often disengenuous. People are cocked and loaded for stuff like this.
Glad to have your voice back on RUclips. Your insight and perspectives have been missed. I appreciate this nuanced deeper dive. Thank you!
The scriptures, principles, commandments, truths, revelations given by God and Christ are very clear on how we are to live and treat others, from all creeds, races, religions, etc. In every era and time God has to work in the constraints of time, place, culture, education, religious backgrounds, creeds, beliefs, etc. Think time, place, people, context, spiritual maturity, desire and readiness. Readiness to accept and live revelations and living the golden rule. Unfortunately, for a lack of better words, humanity, us, people, are all the Lord has to work with. You'll notice God continues to work with us and never gives up on us. And he allows every people, even prophets, to exercise their intellect, understanding, agency, learning in the process of eternal progress of each and every person from every background, circumstances and time. The Lord allows for error and mistakes.
The hyper dissection of words, intended meanings, propensity to being offended and ultra critical comments on everything secular, sectarian, country, culture, sex and sexual relations, race, politics, etc. Is beyond disconcerting and a sign of the times. It's been vogue, chic, expected and acceptable in the last 40 year. Getting offended and being offended has become the norm and culturally reinforced especially I'm the last 10 to 15 years. Comments and stances in the lds church and in other churches are being made all the time. People can be better communicators on all sides for sure, but there are just too many looking to complain and virtue signal and express how hurt they are. That's what I observe in today's culture regarding almost any topic. Open minds, open hearts, the golden rule, cool heads and a desire to get along and understand will hopefully win the day.
Well said.
And "we choose to be offended" I believe it was Elder Uchtdorf's quote? We are in a time when no one can express an opinion without MSM, educators, cultures, etc being offended and attacking the people who have those opinions. A public figure can do 99 things good/right and one thing insensitive, offensive, negative, whatever and the world seems to dwell on that one thing.
Very well stated, I love brother Ahmad Corbett said awhile back. “ I don’t know how it started but I do know how it ended” not sure that a exact quote.
The leadership of the church has become crowded appeasers and not focused on what God wants them to do. These are our leaders and they are put in place at this given time based on God's plan and I get that, but that doesn't mean that they cannot say something wrong, but every time somebody raises a flag of feeling oppressed they do everything they can to fall over and try to appease the minority. When Jesus Christ was being followed by the masses that he fed the day before, he was wroth with them and make sure he said things that would push them away. We are in a time where strength is everything and not by the numbers that associate themselves with the church but the strength of the core of the very elect. We have done everything to look weak, and now we're being attacked even more. Japan attacked America based on the assumption that we were weak, well that wasn't a good idea for the Japanese now was it. Anytime the church looks weak and they're not willing to hold up the gauntlet of Truth then we get attacked more and more. We just need to set a standard and say this is our standard and we're not going to bend anymore. If you want to be with us great we love you, if you do not want to be with us great we still love you and will miss you. But don't let the door hit you with a good Lord split you on your way out. I know that Russell M Nelson is a prophet of God it was revealed to me before he was called as the president of the 12 apostles. But I also know he needs to learn just like everyone else is learning, but again he needs to know that we need to stop appeasing the crowd and start rallying the forces of good within the church
Thank you Greg for your perspective regarding this issue. The bottom line for me is that regardless of the cause or decisions made surrounding this issue, no child of God will be denied any blessing in the eternities period! Yes there are inequities in this life however Christ has paid the price for all our follies and missteps be they individual, Apostles or even a Prophet. All are alike in the eyes of our Heavenly Father.
Accountability is a MUST, for everyone.
I think the lesson here is transparency. The church needs to be as clear and open as possible on all difficult topics. No dismissing hard questions. No excuses for members words, actions or deeds. No more saying "we simply don't know the answers". Straight up apology is best. Apologize to blacks. Apologize to women. And say It's done. It's really over. We are sorry it happened and moving forward it will not happen again. Likewise, Admit polygamy was wrong and denouce it. Reject it and anything like it.
Stop it. Polygamy was commanded for a time.
It was also the way he spoke, the tones he used. It would be a mistake to think this was just about the Priesthood. If this was t racist to you, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t racist to younger than you members. Check out a few tik toks mocking Brad.
The great, credible references of Tik Tok!
Appreciate your effort to be balanced and honest here… I’m led to 2 questions based on your explanation: 1. If the policy wasn’t enacted by revelation, why did it have to be redacted by revelation? That suggests to me that the GA’s largely thought BY’s “policy” was from God.
2. How can people square this with the still-repeated LDS aphorism, “the prophet will never lead you astray”? Isn’t this a clear case of just that?
In regards to #1, I think there is a lot of truth to that. #2, in my estimation, we take too much off a hardline approach on this. I believe we need to understand this more along the lines of our salvation.
By the way my ancestor is Elijah Abel.
I'm glad you survived! I think in general, speakers shouldn't wing it on this subject and use carefully crafted messaging, especially from leadership. His messaging was sloppy and offensive. Maybe even stupid.
It was too cavalier.
That was my problem with it. I listened to the entire speech last night. My takeaway is that he was trying too hard to be funny and entertaining while tackling sensitive issues. Sometimes he even sounded combative and sarcastic when speaking of those who either choose to leave the Church, or of those who are not of our faith. I feel bad for Brother Wilcox because he is a genuinely good man. I'm sure this has been one of the hardest weeks ever for him.
@@trishcrowe5474 what's truly unfortunate is that the church and its members spend a lot of time, energy and resources to build relationships with the black community, and with one talk we're back to the drawing board.
I listened to his remarks earlier this week. I followed a link to his talk given through an anti group (which kind of group I generally avoid, but they snagged me from a RUclips feed, which actually was primarily about Wendy Nelson's recent talk in Europe that used some very strong counsel to be very strict in following ALL the words of the prophets--and I took the bait. The Brother Wilcox carfluffle came up on the back end of that group's discussion) I went in prepared to defend Brother Wilcox from whatever he was being accused of, but I have to admit his talk was painful to hear. Not knowing much about him, I have to confess I found his remarks so dismissive and flippant that I was taken back. I was REALLY worried that the topic being treated this way was directed at youth in the church, who weren't being served well by it. My feeling initially was that I was glad none of my youth were any where near that talk. That was not the way I wanted any important subject in the gospel or church treated in any venue. Now, of of course I want to give Brother Wilcox the benefit of the doubt, he probably feels horrible. I appreciate comments about him from those who know him personally etc. We would all want to be judged with equity and fairness, not as the antis did, who basically shredded him. I hope this whole thing doesn't do much damage to sensitive members.
@@pauline17ish i think sometimes Utah is a bubble that produces some strange ideas (and characters). I' ve lived everywhere, and I've only heard this kind of thing from behind the Zion curtain. It is a cultural problem as well as religious.
First of all , really glad to see you're back at the mic... and on the back side of covid...
Unfortunately we're not entitled to authentic conversation and discourse because of all the various reasons people get offended..
So if you know anyone, like children or investigators, who wonders why conference talks can be so stiff and robotic explain its because the world at every turn lieth in judgement..
“They taste blood in the water…” Greg, you and a lot of people see that if they look past the bumper sticker sound bites. The bigger holistic view on this would be a recognition that the Lord needs to deal with the fallout (politically or otherwise) of errors of his servants. The prophets have and will screw up. The Lord knows all things from the beginning to the end, so I’m flustered primarily with peoples non-reckoning of this as a cataclysmic overreaction. It’s not simple, and Greg is 💯 spot on that it can’t have lip service simplification, or this is exactly what we’ll get in the day and age of cancel culture.
In this particular case Brad recognized that he made a remark that was harmful and wrong and he sincerely apologized. The criticism was merited and he will be a better leader because of this healthy feedback. I don’t think it is healthy for us to say that when people disagree with one of our leaders that we say “they are just offended”. Do you think Brad shouldn’t have apologized?
@@daveanderson7179 You have two distinct issues here: one is if he should apologize and if it’s okay if Church leaders write-off opposing views as being offended. As to the first, what he’s apologizing for is the important part, so my answer is yes in that it should focus not on the cancellation narrative (racism) but focus on his inelegant way of handling a complex topic. As for the second one, other comments have pointed out the parallel to the members opposed to the “vaccine” push of the Church. In that case, dismissing them is just as bad if not worse idea because it has the same pattern (non-relevation based dictate) and proximate, physical ramifications.
@@daveanderson7179 like the Prophet Joseph Smith may have once said, there are those who draw lines in the sand just to wait and see if someone will cross it.. fault finders
@@45s262 are you saying people shouldn't speak out when there is verbal abuse, racism, sexism, etc? Or is it OK for leaders?
Thank you for this video. I did not know what had been said. This clarifies what Bro. Wilcox said and why it became a sore point. I have always been a history buff and have studied cultures and how they rise & fall. As a convert at an older age I always presumed the ban
was a social/cultural issue. Your measured thoughts on this topic confirm my initial understanding. Especially interesting to discover for me is that Brigham Young never said it was a revelation, again confirming my understanding of the ban as a social/cultural situation.
The time period of Young's ban and what was happening with people from many cultural backgrounds (especially re the slave issues) over the years - negative feelings against Blacks - made it evident that the ban was an error. My supposition as to why the Lord did not act sooner to reinstate Black men to the Priesthood is that even church society was not ready
for it. The evidence you presented about what various Prophets said later about why the Lord did not reverse the ban until 1978, confirms to me that the Lord had to wait until people in the Church were more ready to hear His will. Also, thanks so much for the evidence re Joseph Smith & black priesthood I knew this, but the other evidence that proves that the errors in thought (Cain, Ham, blacks by Church members (early & modern - aka rumors) )are false & not true at all. Love when the truth comes out.
I really like your point of view here. Do you think the Lord is also waiting for us to be more accepting of gay marriage before he will allow gay marriage? Elder Holland says the Brethren plead to know how to help them and be more accepting of them.
@daveanderson7179...I can understand that that is what many people think and that things in that regard will change. However, from the scriptures, these two are completely different issues. As far as the priesthood, the doctrine in the scriptures is clear: God prevents none that come unto Him: black and white, male and female, etc.
I agree we need to help our brothers and sisters who struggle and don't feel like they belong, to help them see the broader perspective of who they are as a person, more than just one aspect, and how they can bless others with their gifts. But just like the rest of us, none of us are exceptions to the rules, and all of us need to follow the law of chastity if we want those blessings of being faithful to God. We are all asked to sacrifice different things in this life, and I believe each sacrifice is just as painful for each individual though they are different. It's part of our test. The scriptures and prophets have been very clear about God's laws and doctrine in this regard: marriage is between a man and a woman, and homosexual romantic behavior is a serious sin against God's law of chastity. It's been this way since before Adam and Eve, where God in scripture made it very clear to us what His mind is on this matter. This is an unchanging, eternal doctrine that has been restated in recent conferences as such, and we each get to decide on this and other doctrine if we will humbly obey and be like Christ: "Not my will, but Thine be done." Compassion and truth need to be together to help guide each of us in making decisions that have far reaching consequences for ourselves and others. This is not hate or exclusion, but true love: with both justice and mercy, boundaries and compassion.
It's pure conjecture but I have often wondered if it wasn't like the Manifesto but in reverse. This was a highly politically charged subject in the mid 1800's just prior to the civil war and taking this stance would keep the church more politically neutral and therefore less likely to be subject to repercussions from either side during the Civil War.
People don’t understand history well enough to understand that . There was a HUGE issue with slavery at the time . We were a young Church with problems enough with polygamy. People also don’t understand how main stream the Church was in giving the Priesthood when it did . It was the 1960’s to 1970’s before Black leaders were called by ANY congregations of Any religion over particularly white congregations in the USA . There were a few exceptions but as a movement it wasn’t done . Sadly racism was prevalent in ALL religions until people were ready to grow and accept that God is no respecter of persons . Bro Wilcox could have worded things much different like many of Us .
Thanks for addressing this sensitive subject. None of us are perfect…not even prophets. I agree, Wilcox is a good man, but didn’t do a good job of speaking on this matter. Back to the drawing board for him. I’m just grateful none of my mistakes have been openly published for critical review! I am not on social media at all, except for a few comments on RUclips channels such as this. God bless you for choosing to discuss controversial issues and adding your compassionate, balanced view. Glad you are healed from your illness. You were in my prayers.
Thank you!
Bro Wilcox talk was fabulous!!
I remember what an issue this was when I was young. And trying to understand why. My mother would say that in the last days every worthy member would be able to hold the priesthood. So when the announcement was made we were thrilled thinking the last days were here! And that hard question would be gone!
But now, regardless of why it happened, I think the Lord allowed it to stand as a test. Kind of like Abraham and Isaac.
I am a very ordinary member of the church but I have an opinion about the inclusion of our black brothers and sisters in the gospel. I believe the biggest reason that blacks were not initially included was that the early saints were a product of their time. The majority of them, along with the majority of the rest of the world believed they were superior to the black people. They were not yet ready to include them in the gospel as equal partners. Even though they were wrong, the Lord had to work with the imperfect people he had to establish the church and gradually through time we became more enlightened.
The second, less important reason was that the church needed to establish an infrastructure, both of strong leaders, and of sufficient resources to be able to convert these good Saints without chaos. I believe that because of technology, and because of a strong base of covenant people that time is now.
I do not think Brad is racist,, just unaware. Glad we are having the conversation. Nothing bad comes from honest respectful communication. All other things aside, in my mind it boils down to this....all LDS leaders thru time (150) years encountering this issue were supposed to be communing with the same source and are all over the map with their interpretation as why it is an issue and how to rectify it. Sounds like a group of men making doctrine/policy in their own mind. "God" was not involved in this at all. Just a bunch of uninspired men doing what they want and blaming either God or members of the church. Don't forget all the people affected by this and the withholding of temple blessings over that period of time. It is sad when you think about it.
Far too many members seem to base their testimony, at least in part, on the behavior of other members/leaders and/or LDS culture. The Gospel is perfect...the people aren't.
Thank you, Greg. Excellent topic and discussion again. Timely for many reasons. Grateful to you for raising my awareness, helping us discern subtext in the commotion.
I am trying to understand why people are bothered too. I read the essay “Race and the Priesthood” and I am needing help with it. The essay says the priesthood ban was theories of men and that God is not racist, which I completely agree with. So that means the prophets were just wrong about the priesthood ban. Joseph allowed black people to have the priesthood but Brigham young and the next half a dozen or so prophets were wrong about Gods will (official church essay says the church disavows the theories that were put forth on why the ban was put in place in the first place. So, God didn’t tell Brigham Young to start the ban, God didn’t tell any of the following prophets to keep the ban going, and it was corrected by President Kimball in 1978.
I like this summary because it means God isn’t racist and the prophets simply made a mistake because they are human.
Right?
I think that is right!
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but the implications here seems to be that you can't trust the prophets. Pretty sure that goes against what the scriptures teach.
@@shirw Not necessarily. I interpret it more to be a reminder that even prophets can still make mistake as they are still human like all of us. It may be quite disconcerting when it happens, but we need to remember that they are still trying to figure out how things work like the rest of us.
@@shirw I don’t think God ever wanted us to blindly trust prophets. We have the gift of the Holy Ghost for a reason. Elder Packer once explained that even though prophets will inevitably make mistakes and incorrect choices in their stewardship, they will never be allowed to destroy Gods plan or overall church mission. However, as human and fallible as they can be, a church still needs a leader and God only had imperfect people to work with.
@@hunterbowden7333 they make personal mistakes, they do not make mistakes in leading Christ's church. We are to pray to get our own revelation that what they say is true, not IF what they say is true.
I have started having conversations with people in the Mormon community and happened upon this video. This is an interesting talk that is going the same way as other talks, even in christianity, tend to go. With white people included into the discussion the same things are possible here as occur in the white christian church when such discussions come up. If there is no majority of whites in the conversation then there is no conversation, and especially no appearance where a conversation might take place. Next and most important there is some type of hive mind mentality given whereby one person expresses the viewpoint for others to use that most guarantees self preservation, safety, and the ability to carry on as before, irrespective of the issue, the ramifications behind it, and simply the truth. The Bible says much on the topic of racism that I don't hear much of from white evangelicals. The point is that it doesn't mean that the Bible doesn't discuss it. If the Book of Mormon is a more excellent book than the Bible then I'm sure it discusses race in greater detail, which makes all this more confusing. The context with which this discussion should be occurring then should include scripture from the Book, as opposed to a man telling us what to think with our parents' tone of voice.
You make some good comments. The problem is, if he's saying this over the pulpit in a public situation, I guarantee there are worse things/jokes/dismissive comments that he says in private. It makes him sound very naive and entitled.
First I want to say how great it is to hear that you are on the mend! You have been in my prayers. Secondly: Thank you for clarifying! Brother Palmer mentioned that you said it really well and he was correct. Great insights! 💕
Thank you!
It seemed to me Brad Wilcox did not do his homework before attempting to answer a question he really was not prepared to answer. I don't know if he's read Saints, Volume 2, but the church goes into detail about what was going on when Brigham Young supposedly received revelation excluding blacks from receiving the Priesthood. It is painful to read and hard to understand in our day. The best thing Brad Wilcox could have done in that moment was to simply acknowledge he did not know why the Priesthood was no longer given to our black members until 1978.
Sadly, we are very quick to condemn and criticise. The Lord has set it right. Move on and live the gospel 🙏🇦🇺👍
Just wondering, but was it racist for Jesus not to preach to the gentile? In addition, I can’t also help but wonder, has anyone bothered to ask the question: what would have happened to the church if there never was a ban on blacks holding the priesthood? President Woodruff was shown what would happen to the church if it did not stop polygamy. Perhaps something similar would have happened to the church if there was no ban on blacks and the priesthood, especially given many cultural feelings about blacks throughout the US at the time. Only the Lord knows the answer. But if it purely was a racist mistake by Brigham Young, why did the Lord not rescind it earlier when other prophets inquired of the Lord? I can’t help but think that there is more going on than we are entitled to know at the present time.
Greg, so glad to see you're doing well. Your thoughtful perspectives on this and other important topics of our day are greatly appreciated. Thank-you for the good work you do.
I didn't even know about this issue and I certainly have my own theories about the reason black men weren't allowed to hold the priesthood. However I see a very dogmatic approach everything that comes out of prophets and apostles mouths. I think we need to remember that these are all people with flaws. They're not perfect. They're not without fault. And we need to follow everything that they say with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. None of us are perfect none of us can be right 100% of the time. This is from Brother Oaks October 2019 I remember this specific statement being burned into my memory. As to all of these, the wise cautions of Elders D. Todd Christofferson and Neil L. Andersen in earlier general conference messages are important to remember. Elder Christofferson taught: “It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church.”
Even the apostle Peter was rebuked in a dream because he assumed gentiles were unclean and weren't to be associated with. That is the beauty of God, he allows us to make mistakes, offers correction, then we can choose to change. Allow the learning and change. Allow weakness to become strength.
Great discussion! People are human. Period.
I was hoping that you would address this, well done, clear and to the point. It is my opinion that the youth of today are not looking for, nor do they want, to be entertained from the pulpit. They want clear and concise messaging. They are a generation that is facing challenges that require frankness and honesty, and what we are not willing to address, Goggle will. Every word is listened to and every pocket has a smart phone. You are being fact checked by your audience in real time. The speaker is either adding to their confusion or providing answers. Glad that you are feeling better, Covid is the gift that just keeps on giving.
Agreed!
A very thoughtful and reasoned assessment. Thanks for your insight and for framing the analysis in a way that may minimize some of the awfulizing.
Glad it was helpful!
Very good members of the church have perhaps misunderstood some of our beliefs or doctrines. This topic being one. Another could be the belief that those who come into the world from difficult circumstances were less valiant in the premortal existence. I've always wanted to know if this is true or just a misundersing. Thank you much.
What a perfect explanation on this Greg, I also didn't feel like Brad Wilcox was racist but it didn't feel right to me. I have listened to him for years and have never heard him say anything racist, he had a bad moment. Hopefully because of how he handled it, he will say more and clarify it correctly. I couldn't put my finger on it till you said the words, dismissive, insensitive and incomplete. I feel that is really what it was about. I still like the guy, I forgive him. I've made enough big mistakes in my own life to not judge others and to just leave it up to God.
As far as the actual priesthood ban goes, I wish the Church would come out and clarify it with the history we have, admit Brigham Young was in error and it should never have been done move on with this. President Ezra Taft Benson gave a BYU speech in 1974, when he was an apostle “The Samuel Principle” where the children of Israel wanted a king like all the other nations, the Lord told Samuel to warn the people of the consequences, Samuel gave them the warning, the people still insisted on a king, God gave them a king and let them suffer, they learned the hard way, God wanted it to be otherwise, within certain bounds God grants men according to their desires.
The point is God let’s men - even prophets make mistakes and learn from them. This applies to the lost 116 pages of the Book of Mormon, God let Joseph give the pages to Martin Harris and then let him learn from his own sad experience.
God isn’t just trying to tell us stuff, he is trying to teach us stuff and I feel this is how the priesthood ban is
Keep up with the excellent critiques on social issues.
Wow! Whole new angle of reasoning of the ban for me. The example of the people insisting, and God allowing, the learning to come “the hard way” even when innocents suffer the consequences….this feels right. I too, have pondered about the ban, and this is an explanation that feels right and seems logical, both for temporal and for spiritual reasoning. I have also, wondered about the temporary practice of polygamy, and intend to ponder this idea’s application to that topic as well. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts.
I do not think people often use the same definition of racism or have the same understanding of what is meant by racism. I think most people assume racism is motivated by hate or maliciousness. While that can be part of it, not all racism is hate motivated. Racism occurs when someone has their power diminished or removed because of their race. Being dismissive of someone because of their race is racism. Being dismissive of someone is a way of removing their power in a situation. The sooner we realize that we all have either implicit or explicit attitudes that are race based, the easier we will be able to address our racists attitudes. It is not about hate, I do not know Brad but I'm not about to assume he hates people. When called out for something that was unkind, intentional or not, it can be used as a learning opportunity. An opportunity to develop more empathy for others. If Brad can do that, great. And when someone apologizes, be genuine in believing that they have used this as a learning opportunity and not some cynical PR stunt. Brad did something that required an apology because he did say something stupid, we all do, and he apologized, and it should be accepted. I hope he has used this to grow.
Excellent thorough commentary! So glad you are feeling better! Hang in there. It takes a while to get your energy back!
Can you add the link to the gospel topics essay?
Good Idea! I'll put it on the description. Also, here it is - www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng
@@CwicShow thank you!
Over the last several years we have as Americans (especially white Americans) come to understand that fighting a war to free slaves, creating the country with the most inclusive society on planet earth, and the greatest opportunity for freedom, education, and advancement in any possible walk of life, is simply not and NEVER WILL be enough to atone for the fact that slavery once existed o our shores. Today, any discussion of race must include multiple apologies, admissions of guilt, admissions that as white men we have no place to comment, and in general, we must admit our guilt (CRT) for every wrong perpetrated on people of color, women, and the alphabet mafia, short people, etc. Brad Wilcox attempted to explain a concept, and given the racial makeup of the Alpine area, its likely that no one of color may even have been in attendance, yet somehow here he is (another white guy) apologizing again to people who absolutely do not care (see Joe Rogan uses the N Word) what apology is given, because the point was never that anyone was actually offended, but rather that we must once again admit our "insensitivity" to the subject at hand. What a bunch of crap....why is anyone paying attention.
Where can we find official comments and understanding about this priesthood issue in history? I love the church and want to learn more so that when people ask i can talk about it.
Start with the Gospel Topics Essay - www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng
So so glad that you're back and what a thoughtful and enlightening discussion thank you
Thank you!
It’s how you look at it & put into perspective just extend our hearts of understanding & not making things just to have something to talk about
Super happy I don’t live in Utah. It’s just too exhausting keeping up with the nonsense. Sounds like Brother Wilcox was a little sloppy with his words. He apologized, that should be the end of it. I thought we believed in forgiveness and grace?
This would probably happen anywhere else in any other industry. It only seems like a Utah thing because it happen with members of the church
Why is it so hard to say it was just plain wrong? Each generation is going to understand more clearly that excluding people as cursed, identified by the color of their skin is a terrible thing to pin on God. The "God's timing" excuse just keeps the issue festering. Time to move beyond it. Enough already.
Racism isn’t just tied to hate of another race it is also tied to thinking another race is inferior to another race. If you defend the idea of racism in any way you are being racist. The racist part of his talk was that the ban was all about race. His talk also implies that blacks were like children not ready to drive just because of the color of their skin which is racist. You can’t say it any other way. Even if you try to steer the context to something else like gods timing it is still racist because it was gods timing tied to racism. God was racist and now he is not? Well he still is if he is telling his followers to defend his past racist actions as valid