Thank you for touching on an error that is very common among violin makers: A violin sounds good because it is well built, not the other way around. In the words of David Gusset maximum strength with minimum material. Shapes and graduations are primarily "architectural" devices, meant to bear and dissipate string load. When this is achieved with a light, flexible but strong structure, the instrument will have no choice but to sound good.
Hi Edgar, I agree that while scientific analysis methods can expose interesting data, the human Master violin maker is the thing that will produce the best instrument. Many Violin makers are formally trained, some are very skilled, and a few have real talent for it. Just like any other discipline.
Hi Edgar, Thank you for another great video. Can you talk a bit more about the semiconductors? What did that person do to adjust the sound with semiconductors? Infuse the wood with material?
The wood probably is a variable that does not allow taking a handmade best instrument and copy it with a machine to perfect precision. It would probably be better to leave some material for fine adjustments to get the best result though each result probably would have some differences, but they would be intentional. The exact machine copy out of different wood might also be different, but random and not intentional. Considering the machined instrument was a copy of the best handmade, it probably would rarely match that instrument and tend to be different for the worse.
Another excellent video, I love it!! I wonder if you would be interested in sharing your expertise on the practical comparison between the traditional hide glue to the contemporary super glue? I've recently listened to a violin whose plates were glued with super glue and the sound was extremely bright, with a very peculiar quality to it. Venturing a bit further in the Speculation Realm, considering that mastering the hide glue may be considerably challenging (with all the temperature demands, quality of the available grains, etc.) would it be possible that there could be some correlation between poor glueing and poor sound (thus explaining why super glue, which is arguably easier to work with) improves so much the sound?
I'd love to ask modern luthiers: if you had to completely redesign the violin from scratch, throwing out all past designs, what would you do different from traditional violins?
Great video, but why are violins made the way they are? I've built an electric guitar, and a cigarbox guitar. But recently I found an entirely stripped down violin for $20 at a second hand store. I was surprised to learn about the tuning peg system and bridge set up. Why not modern chrome tuning heads and strat-style bridge. It seems counter-intuitive for the violinists in the Philhamonic to be tuning with these wood on wood pegs. Wouldn't they want to use nice precise modern tuning keys? Is it a weight thing, or is it about keeping it all wood?
A really interesting video indeed! Thank you so much for sharing your insight in this topic, I always wondered what was the usability truth behind such methods, it was some years ago when I discovered them as fun projects. Nowadays when I hear some instrumentists of any kind focusing too much on the wood I tend to tell them every part of the instrument will vary how it responds, so you need to come to compromises in every area.
Thank you, Edgar, for another informative video. I agree that the Hutchins "system" focuses on tuning the front and back of the violin BEFORE assembly. What is needed is a method to "model" the entire violin after assembly i.e. bass bar, rebs, soundpost plus glue of course. Which is technically impossible to do in the workshop. But with advances in computers and AI, maybe someone can come up with a computer model to incorporate all violin components and calculate the total acoustical characteristics of the violin.
Violins tone change with the time and the playing, even playing a violin for an hour the sound is different...Just my opinion, but definitely is better to have a violin made by a good maker. My hobby is to play different violins a day and always notice the difference between each instrument... My better violin is a Vittorio Villa...unbelievable sound...
I'm excited. This is the subject I was always after. For perfection, how many times does a violin maker disassemble, adjust, and reassemble a master violin until he thinks he got the optimum?
It's like playing the violin... as perfect as possible? Yeah! but if there is no emotion it is useless. Furthermore, our dear Antonio did not know what a speaker was.😊
Hi Edgar…Most would agree that any tap tones of free plates will of course change when glued to ribs….and I’d expect that tap tones would be evaluated after the bass bar is glued in. However, remembering that all/any tap tones are a measure of stiffness, wouldn’t a more stiff plate,for example also be more stiff after glueing to ribs….than say a less stiff plate? I think that tap tones or chladni patterns can be one of several useful perameters,….but can give inaccurate results if that is all that is used?
Having attended several of Ms. Hutchins hands on workshops, I can say that there may not be another maker that could consistently make relatively poor sounding violins. In the massive two volumes on instrument acoustics that she published there is no definitive method that delivers a consistent and predictable outcome for the “perfect” violin tone. At best, this method offers only a two dimensional approach to achieve good violin tone. It certainly does not lend credence to the evolutionary experience and skill that a good violin maker acquires over time.
I'm not a violin maker, but I think that the plates of the back should be tuned to the Root and the Fifth. The plates of the top should be tuned to the Third and the Fifth, an Octave higher than the Root and Fifth of the bottom plate. The Base bar being tuned to the Root an Octave above the Back. The Neck and the Scroll also should be tuned. The Neck to the Root, and the Scroll tuned to the entire Scale. And if you are a careful observer, you will begin to understand why the Del Jesu Guarneri have such fabulous Scrolls. The Scroll was the last thing he tuned to bring out all the Higher Harmonics. Now, the same could be said for bow makers, because a bow that is not tuned to a violin won't bring out the notes that the violin is tuned to.
Indeed, this so called speaker method....pff..I learned Totally different from my father, and from what I already know, when I was 13 years old, my father already learned me this methods, and he goes as far, maybe even further then Edgar does, because tuning with the ribs on it, yeah well, what if you tune after you threated the wood? Etc etc.
Thank you for touching on an error that is very common among violin makers:
A violin sounds good because it is well built, not the other way around.
In the words of David Gusset maximum strength with minimum material.
Shapes and graduations are primarily "architectural" devices, meant to bear and dissipate string load.
When this is achieved with a light, flexible but strong structure, the instrument will have no choice but to sound good.
I think Edgar should write a book about violin luthiery.
I wish there was a classical guitar luthier doing what you do here. Always interesting. Thank you
Hi Edgar,
I agree that while scientific analysis methods can expose interesting data, the human Master violin maker is the thing that will produce the best instrument.
Many Violin makers are formally trained, some are very skilled, and a few have real talent for it.
Just like any other discipline.
Thanks again, master, for the particular information, I think, you really are the Enzo Ferrari of violin making! ❤️🐞
Thank you Elena for your nice comment here!
Love you!
I love you too
Hi Edgar, Thank you for another great video. Can you talk a bit more about the semiconductors? What did that person do to adjust the sound with semiconductors? Infuse the wood with material?
I may visit Cremona and visit your shop...Thank you!
What are the thoughts on Isaak Vigdorchik's method of tuning plates?
The wood probably is a variable that does not allow taking a handmade best instrument and copy it with a machine to perfect precision. It would probably be better to leave some material for fine adjustments to get the best result though each result probably would have some differences, but they would be intentional. The exact machine copy out of different wood might also be different, but random and not intentional. Considering the machined instrument was a copy of the best handmade, it probably would rarely match that instrument and tend to be different for the worse.
Another excellent video, I love it!! I wonder if you would be interested in sharing your expertise on the practical comparison between the traditional hide glue to the contemporary super glue? I've recently listened to a violin whose plates were glued with super glue and the sound was extremely bright, with a very peculiar quality to it. Venturing a bit further in the Speculation Realm, considering that mastering the hide glue may be considerably challenging (with all the temperature demands, quality of the available grains, etc.) would it be possible that there could be some correlation between poor glueing and poor sound (thus explaining why super glue, which is arguably easier to work with) improves so much the sound?
In pursuit of the Vitruvian Man of instrument construction 🎛
I'd love to ask modern luthiers: if you had to completely redesign the violin from scratch, throwing out all past designs, what would you do different from traditional violins?
Thank you so much Edgar, as always very informative and helpful to us musicians!
Great video, but why are violins made the way they are?
I've built an electric guitar, and a cigarbox guitar. But recently I found an entirely stripped down violin for $20 at a second hand store. I was surprised to learn about the tuning peg system and bridge set up. Why not modern chrome tuning heads and strat-style bridge. It seems counter-intuitive for the violinists in the Philhamonic to be tuning with these wood on wood pegs. Wouldn't they want to use nice precise modern tuning keys?
Is it a weight thing, or is it about keeping it all wood?
A really interesting video indeed! Thank you so much for sharing your insight in this topic, I always wondered what was the usability truth behind such methods, it was some years ago when I discovered them as fun projects. Nowadays when I hear some instrumentists of any kind focusing too much on the wood I tend to tell them every part of the instrument will vary how it responds, so you need to come to compromises in every area.
Thank you, Edgar, for another informative video. I agree that the Hutchins "system" focuses on tuning the front and back of the violin BEFORE assembly. What is needed is a method to "model" the entire violin after assembly i.e. bass bar, rebs, soundpost plus glue of course. Which is technically impossible to do in the workshop. But with advances in computers and AI, maybe someone can come up with a computer model to incorporate all violin components and calculate the total acoustical characteristics of the violin.
Violins tone change with the time and the playing, even playing a violin for an hour the sound is different...Just my opinion, but definitely is better to have a violin made by a good maker.
My hobby is to play different violins a day and always notice the difference between each instrument...
My better violin is a Vittorio Villa...unbelievable sound...
I'm excited. This is the subject I was always after.
For perfection, how many times does a violin maker disassemble, adjust, and reassemble a master violin until he thinks he got the optimum?
It's like playing the violin... as perfect as possible? Yeah! but if there is no emotion it is useless.
Furthermore, our dear Antonio did not know what a speaker was.😊
This is not a new concept, Keith Hill wrote some articles about tuning the plates of a violin, according to different intervals by ear.
Great videos ,I do appreciate all your creativity...Thank you!
Hi Edgar…Most would agree that any tap tones of free plates will of course change when glued to ribs….and I’d expect that tap tones would be evaluated after the bass bar is glued in.
However, remembering that all/any tap tones are a measure of stiffness, wouldn’t a more stiff plate,for example also be more stiff after glueing to ribs….than say a less stiff plate?
I think that tap tones or chladni patterns can be one of several useful perameters,….but can give inaccurate results if that is all that is used?
One day build oud for me 😊😊😊
Having attended several of Ms. Hutchins hands on workshops, I can say that there may not be another maker that could consistently make relatively poor sounding violins. In the massive two volumes on instrument acoustics that she published there is no definitive method that delivers a consistent and predictable outcome for the “perfect” violin tone. At best, this method offers only a two dimensional approach to achieve good violin tone. It certainly does not lend credence to the evolutionary experience and skill that a good violin maker acquires over time.
How much it may cost to me
Stay tune for the tuning of the instrument it might play a tune at the end ! 😂
I'm not a violin maker, but I think that the plates of the back should be tuned to the Root and the Fifth. The plates of the top should be tuned to the Third and the Fifth, an Octave higher than the Root and Fifth of the bottom plate. The Base bar being tuned to the Root an Octave above the Back. The Neck and the Scroll also should be tuned. The Neck to the Root, and the Scroll tuned to the entire Scale. And if you are a careful observer, you will begin to understand why the Del Jesu Guarneri have such fabulous Scrolls. The Scroll was the last thing he tuned to bring out all the Higher Harmonics. Now, the same could be said for bow makers, because a bow that is not tuned to a violin won't bring out the notes that the violin is tuned to.
9 minutes to say, "i use my past experiences to tune the violin". nothing really to take away.
Indeed, this so called speaker method....pff..I learned Totally different from my father, and from what I already know, when I was 13 years old, my father already learned me this methods, and he goes as far, maybe even further then Edgar does, because tuning with the ribs on it, yeah well, what if you tune after you threated the wood? Etc etc.