1) we are very spoiled on modern jets 2) pre-plan is everything , it seems 3) the F-4 with its multiple modes is Iron bombing heaven 4) great tutorial series: I am loving the "the short and long of it" format.
If history is any guide, loft bombing was always a bit of gamble and best done in groups against area targets to better your odds. Your results seems to match that. I am noticing that the F-4E module really benefits from pre planning. The newer 4th gen modules have the systems that allow you to just "wing it" a lot of the time but with the F-4 you really need to go in with a plan.
Wasn’t it originally designed as a method for delivering a nuclear weapon? Seems like it Allows for ingress below radar and a loft distance that made it possible for the F-4 to continue the vertical loop until up top, roll around and head out to a safe distance…so would make sense
@@mikeck4609 That seems to be the rumor going around Reddit these days but I don't know. Certainly, loft bombing is something done outside of nuclear weapons delivery but I don't know what the idea was behind the original design.
Love the videos. Feels like so many of the usual DCS tutorial makers stopped making tutorials once they got past Dive Toss, the LGBs, and the mavs. Love to hear all the iron bombing methods, please keep it up!
I love your channel , a history reference on planes and weapons employments. Love your F4 video , all are very well done , your narrative is perfect ( even if i am French) , love it !!! Thx Iain to give us all this gems, a good example : this video :) . Greetings from France 😊
Great video, I agree with the other comments about the need to plan the attacks, which I actually think is a lot of fun. Its a shame that dcs isn't a little better in this regard, especially for multiplayer. It would be good to have a mission planning environment that multiplayer participants could all share, also the ability to print hard copies of routes, especially from the i.p. to the target. A strip map of the last 1 minute of the run from ip to target with 15 seconds tic marks on the track and the attack heading is super useful, and what attack pilots in the 60/70/80 would produce in the planning stage. You can do this in the combatflite planning tool(highly recommend it), but native to dcs would be better.
loft bombing in the F-4 is the new refueling in the F-16, which is to say, I can’t. When I try following the horizontal line up the ball, the vertical line sways too much no matter how centered I keep the stick. If I do manage to keep it centered, and follow the horizontal ADI guide up the ball, it’s still wildly inaccurate. The bombing computer seems to ignore that there is a very specific speed window where lofting can be successful. If I plug in a profile to loft mk83s at 350 knots, they fall about half a mile short, and you can flip that result at 550 knots, putting the bombs far past the target. 500 knots seem to be the sweet spot, but the bombing computer doesn’t seem to take this into consideration
I think something to hammer home the expected accuracy with the LOFT and Inst O/S modes is that at the end of the day it's *actually* LABS with a different name on the knob, it's designed to get a *nuclear weapon* vaguely in the area it needs to be, but also far enough away from the release aircraft to not destroy it.
So I've been trying this (a lot) and not having much luck. I can't quite figure out why, so I have a couple questions. The bombing calculator calls for 450 "TAS". Watching you, you start your run (pickle) at around 467 (TAS) with release happening just under 450 (TAS), whereas at release the Airspeed Indicator is closer to 400knts. Are you figuring using TAS and beginning the run fast to compensate?
Putting msl into the computer on Nevada were the heights of target are 3000ft if I'm running in at 500ft do I add that to the the 3000 making 3500? Probably a stupid question
I hope you are going to do a tutorial for the different types of cluster bombs and how to deliver them in the F4E. The missions (and even the instant ones) included with the module offer a big challenge for me.
I’m confused. How do you tell the plane that a certain waypoint is actually the target you want to bomb? If I have waypoint 4 over the target I want to hit and I place waypoint 3 over the area where I want my IP to be (about 7 miles from Waypoint 4), how do I tell the aircraft that I want to drop the bombs on waypoint 4 so it should turn its light on 7 miles from waypoint 4 and drop its bombs when it thinks they will land there. Is it like the F-14 where you can designate a waypoint as a target point? I haven’t had time to mess with the editor much.
It's a bit complicated and a bit more manual than you might think. Hard to explain here. If you drop by my Discord Channel I can try to explain how I set things up - and that worked for me.
Hi, good demo. But with a human WSO, the planning will be more difficult. On the WRCS you don’t enter a range to target. You enter an North/ South & East/ West offset in x100 ft. So already we’re +/- 15m N/S & E/W. So far, the only solution I found to do that is to use UTM coordinates differences between IP and target. But then I use Pythagore computation to compare with mission editor ruler, and I have a 60m difference in range. 😢 That could be because of map projection problem, but DCS maps are flat… So I’m not really sure how to set up that manually without “Magic” Jester ?
Actually all you need to set in the back seat is loft angle and countdown time. Just use the bombing computer and then set thise numbers manually. In effect, all of that would hAve been done preflight with some sort of bombing table. But in the aircraft those numbers are all you need to set.
In the 70s IAF used pre-determined IP points marked by large towers. You would get the offsef from the IP to the target. You would have 2 or 3 of those towers along your route, and the last one would be the IP. You would use each of them to align the INS to make sure you get the tightest system possible for the drop
Bit confused... on the bombing table we ned to fill in the 'Run in Altitude' in feet MSL - so I assume, if the ground to target is elevation 2500 and i want to fly 500ft above terrain i type in 3000ft? Is that correct... ? What happens if i am attacking a target on a knoll which would therefore be higher than my run in altitude.. say at 3500ft. Would loft bombing still work?
Interesting question. I have not tried any of those scenarios but I can guess. The bombing computer wants all altitudes (including the target's in MSL). Will it work if you enter AGL altitudes instead? Don't know - it might. If the target is higher than your run-in. Never tried it. Easy enough to get in the cockpit and see if the bombing computer chokes on it. It will usually tell you when you have attempted to give it data that does not work.
Well, the crew need to pick it. There are no formal criteria. I would say - pick something obvious, and something stretches across your route (a road, or stream, or coast line) pick something fairly close to your drop point. The longer you have to "fly the needles" the longer the errors build up and your solution gets inaccurate.
No matter what bombs I use, they fall 1.5-1.8 miles short. Maintaining perfect speed and altitude does not help. If I follow the manual exactly, I never manage to hit the target.
1) we are very spoiled on modern jets
2) pre-plan is everything , it seems
3) the F-4 with its multiple modes is Iron bombing heaven
4) great tutorial series: I am loving the "the short and long of it" format.
Yup. And thanks. I appreciate the feedback.
If history is any guide, loft bombing was always a bit of gamble and best done in groups against area targets to better your odds. Your results seems to match that. I am noticing that the F-4E module really benefits from pre planning. The newer 4th gen modules have the systems that allow you to just "wing it" a lot of the time but with the F-4 you really need to go in with a plan.
Correct on all counts. Going in to any mission with only a peasant level of understanding if the task at hand is not a good approach in the F-4E
Wasn’t it originally designed as a method for delivering a nuclear weapon? Seems like it Allows for ingress below radar and a loft distance that made it possible for the F-4 to continue the vertical loop until up top, roll around and head out to a safe distance…so would make sense
@@mikeck4609 That seems to be the rumor going around Reddit these days but I don't know. Certainly, loft bombing is something done outside of nuclear weapons delivery but I don't know what the idea was behind the original design.
Love the videos. Feels like so many of the usual DCS tutorial makers stopped making tutorials once they got past Dive Toss, the LGBs, and the mavs. Love to hear all the iron bombing methods, please keep it up!
I love your channel , a history reference on planes and weapons employments. Love your F4 video , all are very well done , your narrative is perfect ( even if i am French) , love it !!! Thx Iain to give us all this gems, a good example : this video :) . Greetings from France 😊
Thanks. You have been a long time viewer and I always enjoy hearing from you. A bientot.
Thx a lot Iain :)
Lofting GBUs over to a JTAC in the tomcat is great fun, will have to try it with the F4
Great video, I agree with the other comments about the need to plan the attacks, which I actually think is a lot of fun. Its a shame that dcs isn't a little better in this regard, especially for multiplayer. It would be good to have a mission planning environment that multiplayer participants could all share, also the ability to print hard copies of routes, especially from the i.p. to the target. A strip map of the last 1 minute of the run from ip to target with 15 seconds tic marks on the track and the attack heading is super useful, and what attack pilots in the 60/70/80 would produce in the planning stage. You can do this in the combatflite planning tool(highly recommend it), but native to dcs would be better.
I've never looked at combatflite. I will have a look.
can the f4e radar be used like the terrain avoidance radar in the viggen?
Hey this is great because we need to see the setup in the WSO/bombing table so great job. Can we get a Loft attack with the Skrikes?!
Really great and easy to understand tutorial - Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it.
Great video as always Iain!
Thanks. I appreciate it.
loft bombing in the F-4 is the new refueling in the F-16, which is to say, I can’t. When I try following the horizontal line up the ball, the vertical line sways too much no matter how centered I keep the stick. If I do manage to keep it centered, and follow the horizontal ADI guide up the ball, it’s still wildly inaccurate. The bombing computer seems to ignore that there is a very specific speed window where lofting can be successful. If I plug in a profile to loft mk83s at 350 knots, they fall about half a mile short, and you can flip that result at 550 knots, putting the bombs far past the target. 500 knots seem to be the sweet spot, but the bombing computer doesn’t seem to take this into consideration
Love the intro music !!
Thanks!
I think something to hammer home the expected accuracy with the LOFT and Inst O/S modes is that at the end of the day it's *actually* LABS with a different name on the knob, it's designed to get a *nuclear weapon* vaguely in the area it needs to be, but also far enough away from the release aircraft to not destroy it.
So I've been trying this (a lot) and not having much luck. I can't quite figure out why, so I have a couple questions. The bombing calculator calls for 450 "TAS". Watching you, you start your run (pickle) at around 467 (TAS) with release happening just under 450 (TAS), whereas at release the Airspeed Indicator is closer to 400knts. Are you figuring using TAS and beginning the run fast to compensate?
Putting msl into the computer on Nevada were the heights of target are 3000ft if I'm running in at 500ft do I add that to the the 3000 making 3500?
Probably a stupid question
Thank you Iain.
I hope you are going to do a tutorial for the different types of cluster bombs and how to deliver them in the F4E. The missions (and even the instant ones) included with the module offer a big challenge for me.
Ok. I will put it on the list.
@@Sidekick65 Thanks a lot in advance. I have been following you since the start of the channel and I really appreciate the content you are creating.
I’m confused. How do you tell the plane that a certain waypoint is actually the target you want to bomb? If I have waypoint 4 over the target I want to hit and I place waypoint 3 over the area where I want my IP to be (about 7 miles from
Waypoint 4), how do I tell the aircraft that I want to drop the bombs on waypoint 4 so it should turn its light on 7 miles from waypoint 4 and drop its bombs when it thinks they will land there. Is it like the F-14 where you can designate a waypoint as a target point? I haven’t had time to mess with the editor much.
It's a bit complicated and a bit more manual than you might think. Hard to explain here. If you drop by my Discord Channel I can try to explain how I set things up - and that worked for me.
Hi, good demo.
But with a human WSO, the planning will be more difficult.
On the WRCS you don’t enter a range to target. You enter an North/ South & East/ West offset in x100 ft.
So already we’re +/- 15m N/S & E/W.
So far, the only solution I found to do that is to use UTM coordinates differences between IP and target.
But then I use Pythagore computation to compare with mission editor ruler, and I have a 60m difference in range. 😢
That could be because of map projection problem, but DCS maps are flat…
So I’m not really sure how to set up that manually without “Magic” Jester ?
Actually all you need to set in the back seat is loft angle and countdown time. Just use the bombing computer and then set thise numbers manually.
In effect, all of that would hAve been done preflight with some sort of bombing table. But in the aircraft those numbers are all you need to set.
In the 70s IAF used pre-determined IP points marked by large towers.
You would get the offsef from the IP to the target. You would have 2 or 3 of those towers along your route, and the last one would be the IP. You would use each of them to align the INS to make sure you get the tightest system possible for the drop
Bit confused... on the bombing table we ned to fill in the 'Run in Altitude' in feet MSL - so I assume, if the ground to target is elevation 2500 and i want to fly 500ft above terrain i type in 3000ft? Is that correct... ? What happens if i am attacking a target on a knoll which would therefore be higher than my run in altitude.. say at 3500ft. Would loft bombing still work?
Interesting question. I have not tried any of those scenarios but I can guess. The bombing computer wants all altitudes (including the target's in MSL). Will it work if you enter AGL altitudes instead? Don't know - it might. If the target is higher than your run-in. Never tried it. Easy enough to get in the cockpit and see if the bombing computer chokes on it. It will usually tell you when you have attempted to give it data that does not work.
I’ve been trying to loft bomb targets higher than my run in altitude without success…. The bombing computer doesn’t get upset. I’ll keep trying…
regarding the IP, is that decided by the pilot? is there any criteria in choosing it?
Well, the crew need to pick it. There are no formal criteria. I would say - pick something obvious, and something stretches across your route (a road, or stream, or coast line) pick something fairly close to your drop point. The longer you have to "fly the needles" the longer the errors build up and your solution gets inaccurate.
How do you use active pause 😳
No matter what bombs I use, they fall 1.5-1.8 miles short. Maintaining perfect speed and altitude does not help. If I follow the manual exactly, I never manage to hit the target.