Here is the Timeline: 00:00 - Introduction 03:08 - What should Israel have done after October 7th? 13:11 - Hamas 15:56 - Buildup to October 7th 21:46 - Is Hamas a terrorist group? 30:00 - Zionism 32:48 - The Solution 34:22 - One State Solution 37:07 - Do the Jews Deserve a State? 39:00 - What would Ilan Pappe's parents do? 41:47 - Do Jews Need Israel? 45:27 - Antisemitism 49:08 - lan Pappe's Life Story 52:43 - Ilan Pappe was detained at a US Airport
If Prof Pappe had been in charge of the IDF when Oct 7th happened as a result of an intelligence failure on what would have been his watch, he would have displayed dismay and contrition and resigned Because he's a good man Instead you had someone who was visibly delighted that they could have the war they always wanted
The problem with Jake is he thinks Iranians are not humans his head is brainwashed all he knows is Iran wanted to destroy Israel never mind asking why? what did Israel do to deserve such treatment? it all goes back to the occupation, Israel is not the victim here, If you ask any Nazi leader why he did what he did he will give you an excuse Jake doesn't know that people who choose to forgive their attackers are not weak but strong it takes courage to forgive and those who watch will understand this unless they are stupid
“...People nowadays have so much karma that they are soaked in it, and they will encounter unpleasant things at any time and in any situation. Bad things await a person the moment he steps out the door. When there are disagreements, however, people do not endure them and fail to realize that they are paying off their karma from the past. If a person is not treated well by others, he will treat others even worse, thereby producing new karma before paying for the old. This makes society’s moral values decline daily, and everyone becomes enemies among one another. Many people cannot understand this: What’s happened to people today? What’s going on with today’s society? If mankind continues like this it will be extremely dangerous!” (“Sickness karma”, “Essentials for Further Advancement I”) “..With regard to Shan [Compassion] alone, when it manifests in human society some everyday people who are attached to everyday people’s society might raise an ordinary human social question: “If everyone learned Dafa [Great Law] and practiced Shan, how would we handle foreign invasions or wars against us?” In fact, I have already said in Zhuan Falun that human society’s development is driven by the evolution of the cosmic climate. Are mankind’s wars accidental, then? A region with a lot of karma or a region where the people’s minds have become bad is bound to be unstable. If a nationality is to be truly virtuous, it must have little karma; it is certain there will be no wars against it. This is because the principles of Dafa prohibit it, as the nature of the universe governs everything. One doesn’t need to worry that a virtuous nation will be invaded. The nature of the universe-Dafa-is present everywhere and encompasses the entire cosmic body, from the macroscopic level to the microscopic level. The Dafa I teach today is not only taught to Eastern people, but also to Westerners at the same time. Their kind people should also be saved. All nationalities that should enter the next, new historical era will obtain the Fa and improve as a whole. It is not just a matter of one nationality. Mankind’s moral standard will also return to that of original human nature. Li Hongzhi July 20, 1996” (“A Brief Explanation of Shan [Compassion], “Essentials for Further Advancement I”) from Falun Dafa teachings by Master Li Hongzhi
"...Incidents such as Jesus being crucified have become the precedent for high-level beings who come down to save people. How could that be acceptable? That itself is degenerate! A god comes down to save people, yet humans crucify him-what a huge sin they have committed! They are still paying for it today." (Teachings at the Conference in Europe Hongzhi Li May 30-31, 1998 ~ Frankfurt, Germany), from Falun Dafa teachings by Master Li Hongzhi
I see Jake the interviewer agreed that I believed in lies but he did not have the courage to call Ilan a lier to his face because truth will persevere.
What an amazing interview. Ilan Pappe answers all the questions so brilliantly and in that way dispels many Zionist talking points in one thrust. Always a pleasure to listen to his analysis. Thank you for sharing this!
As a Palestinian it’s always a pleasure to hear Ilan Pappe. So much love and respect to this man . I come from a large family and I was always told our fight is not with the Jews or Judaism but our struggle and resistance is against Zionism. The way I was raised is one day we and the Jews would live in the land equally and peacefully.
As an Ashkenazi Jew, and as a human first, I hope for this too. Everyone deserves equality and justice, no exceptions, no erasure, no dehumanization. It's terribly hurtful for all of humanity when any of us are treated as Palestinians are. I had a small family and now it is smaller due to my support for Palestine. I don't regret it. Now everyone's true colours come out. I think that many are afraid to lose family and community so they stay silent or follow the status quo. It's not a good excuse, but a reason. I'm so sorry for the injustices you've endured whether in diaspora or the Palestinian territories. Don't give up
@@randomgamerdude98no not like Palestine before 1930 What a twisting of reality . It was nothing but peaceful And controlled by a foreign colonial power . How and why should we go back there ?
Your entire premise is wrong from its core. Even the most leftist Israeli is a Zionist . For multiple times over 50% and up to 70% of those Zionists of the Israeli citizens voted to have a two state solution voted to give up the entire west bank land to the Arab Palestinians who are there. You live in a falls Arab story which became a western leftist story about Zionism is a racist ideology, ethno supremacist, radical religious, with some crazy aims to control the entire middle east or Levant. I think you are confusing it with your own religion for a start But this lie which is the so common view point among Palestinians (I wonder why) is the main reason why peace isn't even an option
@@jakenewfieldyou are not a worthy interviewer as you are giving this man a platform to spread his lies while you are weak in your questions, you should be called out big time!!
Brilliant interview, the polite and calm discourse allowed ideas to be formed and the listener the time to absorb and reflect on both sides. One the best interviews of Ilan Pappe who's interviews I always try and catch, he is such a clear, knowledgeable and reasonable voice.
YES, Jake. I just discovered your channel...because I saw Ilan Pappe's name. I'm ordering his books but I also love listening to him. I like his careful, rational and humane approach to problem solving. And of course, he has so many historical facts in hand and the wisdom that sees their significance.
@@rzein-j8w Thank you! I'll be posting more interviews like this... I hope that you subscribe if you enjoyed it! (and my apologies if you've already subscribed!)
@jeffreywilheim5970 the truth is there is an unnecessary genocide when the aggressor has always been the occupier. Being Pro Palestinian is being pro humanity. The only myth and lie is that Israel is a democracy. Clearly, chosen pple do not believe in freedom for Palestinians. They are treated worst than slaves during nat Turner era America
@@mysteryliasarts3176 excellent comment. Most comments here are the typical Anti Zionism fluff. I noticed that @nano61 does not want to elaborate beyond the talking point. Interesting, but not surprising
He points out the impossibility of creating a two state solution due to almost one million Jewish occupants of Palestines. Also this ignorant host (a nice fellow) does not even know that Israel was not founded due to the German Holocaust. Also his timeline? of anti Semitism is ridiculously ignorant I must say he provided a respectful & a good platform for Pappe
@@lancemanfredi6123 The Jews accepted the Partition plan. The Arabs didn't want to share, so they rejected the plan and started a gen0 cidal war. They thought it would be an easy victory: In a February 1948 UN memorandum, Azzman Pasha, the secretary-general of the Arab League, referring to May 1948 stated, “This war will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre that will be spoken of like the Mongol massacres and the Crusades.” Simple
@rywt4zc, plan aleph in the north - followed by plans bet and gimel in the rest of historic Palestine, which merged into plan dalet due to the surprising ease, with which the migrants could carry out milit'ry campaigns against the native peasants, farmers, villagers ad even township - were begun rolled out in December '47 already. By May '48, when neighbours finally interfered, a quarter of a million native people had already been sent into abysmal situations, that is of those, who survived, ofcourse.
@@OldTeaMate "The migrants"? Robert F. Kennedy visited the British Mandate of Palestine in 1948. He said: "The Jews point with pride to the fact that over 500,000 Arabs, in the 12 years between 1932-1944, came into Palestine to take advantage of living conditions existing in no other Arab state". Economic Arab migration. Jews had been purchasing land and establishing towns way before 1948: Petah Tikva - est 1878 Rosh Pina - est 1882 Rishon Lezion - est 1882 Zichron Yaacov - est 1883
Pappe's right in saying that khamosh is not a terrorist organization. It has made repeated public statements, most recently in April 2024, that "Israelis and jews are not our enemy, our fight is against the Zionist apartheid state, which illegally occupies Palestinian territories, in violation of UN resolutions and international law."
Sure they are terorists, either you are one of them, and therefore publish this nonsense, or that you are so brainwashed with hate for Israel that you will justify anything, including such horrible actions by Hamas. As Ilan Pape is by the way.
so many untruths and deliberately false definitions such as 'occupation' or the comparisons equating such different violent actions as in Algeria with the terrorist act of October 7th. Anyone who doesn't emphasize the differences (and there are countless, qualitative ones) is trying to mislead. Regarding the Goldstone report: the author himself criticized many things in an article in the Washington Post and also emphasized that his report was the first time that the “illegal terrorist acts of Hamas” were investigated and condemned by the UN - this fact is “not often enough “been perceived. Or implemented, one might add. He hoped that the investigation into all aspects of the Gaza conflict would "bring about a new era of impartiality for the UN Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be questioned." He also harbored the hope, “albeit unrealistic,” that Hamas would investigate allegations of war crimes and reduce attacks on Israel. It was “sad that this was not the case”. Pappé's example of the "kidnapped child" is disgusting and somewhat abusive.. “Pro-Palestinian” activists - those who see October 7 as legitimate “resistance” - want us to believe that the barbarism of October 7 was a natural, almost inevitable response to years of Israeli oppression. This narrative is part of an ongoing dehumanization of Palestinians in which Western activists depict Palestinians as a sort of single-cell organism capable only of responding to external stimuli. Palestinians, in this ridiculously common narrative, are incapable of human restraint, driven to acts of unprecedented bloodthirst as though they lack all behavioral control. This racism of the lowest expectations permeates the Western activist imagination, an Orientalism that has no parallel in progressive politics as it applies to any other group on earth.
This is an amazing interview. One thing though that Pr Pappe forgot to correct you on : the Hamas charter doesn't have anything calling for the killing of Jews or antisemitic since its update in 2017.
Yeah, they got smart and took out any mention of Jews and adopted the buzzwords of the woke worldview. This excerpt from their 2017 update gives you a pretty good idea where their hearts are: “The Zionist project is a racist, aggressive, colonial and expansionist project based on seizing the properties of others; it is hostile to the Palestinian people and to their aspiration for freedom, liberation, return and self-determination. The Israeli entity is the plaything of the Zionist project and its base of aggression. The Zionist project does not target the Palestinian people alone; it is the enemy of the Arab and Islamic Ummah posing a grave threat to its security and interests. It is also hostile to the Ummah’s aspirations for unity, renaissance and liberation and has been the major source of its troubles. The Zionist project also poses a danger to international security and peace and to mankind and its interests and stability.” If that doesn’t sway you, consider the ubiquitous use of “yahood” in their media. It’s always good to listen to what people say in their own language.
Thanks for this feedback! And, in the same manner of directness that I strived for in this interview, I'd like to graciously ask you to subscribe to my channel. If this request is obnoxious, please let me know!
He's not playing devils advocate, he IS devils advocate! He's under the misconception that Jews claimed a state in israel and this happened peacefully? (Blatantly disregarding all the massacres firmly documented in history, k-lling so many young Palestinian men and boys to cull any attempt for resistance) This is why a debate with a Zionist is futile, completely useless! They lie and they lie badly!
Absolutely agree. Pappe is a master intellectual and his integrity shows through here with these questions. This kid is coming from Bra AIN wash concepts… and Pappe showed enormous patience. The questions themselves and the tone in which he is asking them - are so obvious. Ilan Pappe - thank you for being so patient with the uninformed of this world and their rudeness, in - I have to say - your very great presence. But because of how awkward this interview appears, Pappe is very clear and it may be a good video to give those that need to hear what he has to say.
@@lisabahouth8893 At 22:05, Pappe claims that "Ham ass is part of the Palestinian Liberation Organization". He also claims it is partly secular, and partly religious. There are a few problems with that: PLO and Fatah are considered as less extreme, or religious, than Ham ass Ham ass is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, not the PLO Ham ass means "Islamic Resistance", it is a religious Islamist organization The PLO stands for Palestine Liberation Organization - not "Palestinian" as he claims. Because, in 1964, the "Palestinian Arab" identity had not been created yet. At 21:50, Pappe is wrong about the charter, too. What is your understanding of the Ham ass charter? We can discuss
@@rywt4zc You can't actually argue with a word that Ilan Pappe says so you play semantics with a slip of the tongue where Pappe uses the word 'organisation' in a way he clearly follows up to make clear he means the Palestinian/Palestine liberation movement. More nonsense from you about the Palestinian Arabs and 1964...that's school boy stuff, go read some books. And you do know that Hamas changed their charter? Or is that too inconveniant for you? The Palestinian people have a right under international law to resist their occupation
@@rywt4zc I believe he has in mind that the PLO is an umbrella term for a coalition of different parties, with widely varying ideologies, and that as a Palestinian national movement Hamas belongs in that coalition. Yes they are an Islamic Resistance Movement. Resistance against what? The Israeli occupation of Palestine. The distinction you draw between Palestine and Palestinian in the name of the PLO is meaningless. For example, back in 1923 Jabotinsky in his seminal essay The Iron Wall recognised that the native population of Palestinian Arabs had the same instinctive jealous love of Palestine as the Aztecs for Mexico, and the Sioux for the prairies, and so would inevitably resist colonisation. For Jabotinsky, they belonged to Palestine in the same way that other people, whom today we would call indigenous, belonged to their homelands.
Thanks you for this generous feedback! I appreciate it. And, in the same manner of directness that I strived for in this interview, I'd like to graciously ask you to subscribe to my channel. If this request is obnoxious, please let me know!
Thanks! I appreciate this feedback and it would also help my channel if you would be willing to subscribe! I apologize for the direct-request, but hey -- I want to be direct!!
"Israel got entry into UN in 1949 by agreeing to fulfill two conditions - there will be a Palestinian state nearby the Israeli state (UN Resolution 181, binding on all states) - all the Palestinians who were made refugees by Israel in 1948 will be allowed to return to their original homes. (Resolutions 194, of Security Council, binding on all states) None of these 2 conditions were fulfilled by Israel till date, thus undermining its own membership" -Dr Mustafa Berghouti, leader of Palestinian Initiative
@@jakenewfield Jake are you seriously this dense?! Why don't you intervene Briahna Joy Gray, someone who is a lawyer by trade and is extremely coherent and sharp in her arguments when it comes to the Israel-Palestine issue.
Ilan Pappe gives us such an intelligent and insightful view. This conversation should be listened to far and wide. By the way, Palestinians are semite, too. I think that if Ilan Pappe’s idea of the one state solution, the whole world would wholeheartedly support and help with its fair and just implementation according to universally accepted laws and principles. Except for the West, they won’t like it.
Thank you for this feedback!! And, in the same manner of directness that I strived for in this interview, I'd like to graciously ask you to subscribe to my channel. If this request is obnoxious, please let me know!
so many untruths and deliberately false definitions such as 'occupation' or the comparisons equating such different violent actions as in Algeria with the terrorist act of October 7th. Anyone who doesn't emphasize the differences (and there are countless, qualitative ones) is trying to mislead. Regarding the Goldstone report: the author himself criticized many things in an article in the Washington Post and also emphasized that his report was the first time that the “illegal terrorist acts of Hamas” were investigated and condemned by the UN - this fact is “not often enough “been perceived. Or implemented, one might add. He hoped that the investigation into all aspects of the Gaza conflict would "bring about a new era of impartiality for the UN Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be questioned." He also harbored the hope, “albeit unrealistic,” that Hamas would investigate allegations of war crimes and reduce attacks on Israel. It was “sad that this was not the case”. Pappé's example of the "kidnapped child" is disgusting and somewhat abusive.. “Pro-Palestinian” activists - those who see October 7 as legitimate “resistance” - want us to believe that the barbarism of October 7 was a natural, almost inevitable response to years of Israeli oppression. This narrative is part of an ongoing dehumanization of Palestinians in which Western activists depict Palestinians as a sort of single-cell organism capable only of responding to external stimuli. Palestinians, in this ridiculously common narrative, are incapable of human restraint, driven to acts of unprecedented bloodthirst as though they lack all behavioral control. This racism of the lowest expectations permeates the Western activist imagination, an Orientalism that has no parallel in progressive politics as it applies to any other group on earth.
@@jakenewfield Thank you for your respectful hosting. Please do a bit of research about the history of the "indigenous" people of Palestine: perhaps starting with "Histories" of Herodotus (502 BC) and fast-forward to King David Hotel bombing by Zionist terrorists.
I like Ilan's analogy of the kidnapped child. It doesn't make sense to bomb the whole neighborhood to get the abductor. This is the problem with the current US and allies: They back Israel's massive bombings and artillary as necessary due to the use of "human shields," a dubious excuse and a war crime. This is a nuanced an excellent discussion. Thank you.
The analogy makes zero sense. First, the aim of cops is to save civilians. Any other goal, eg detaining the perpetrator, is secondary. In war, the primary objective is to kill the enemy. Second, if the folks in the building were told to leave and refused, the logical assumption is they are collaborating or tacitly endorsing the kidnapper’s behavior.
Here’s the difference: in New York, there is a whole population willing to help save the kid. In Gaza, there is a whole population willing to help keep the child in captivity.
Check out videos of, or interviews with: MAx Blumenthal, Aaron Matte and Jeremy Loffredo on the Gray Zone, , Useful Idiots with Aaron Matte and Katie Halper, Rhania Khalek, Chris Hedges, Miko Peled, Craig Mokhiber, and Norman Finkelstein and Bad Hasbara!
The host keeps pushing Ilan to condemn Hamas and is so reluctant to condemn Israel for the terrorism it’s commented over the last century. Perhaps the host is of Jewish descent and because of this, is hastily dismissive of maybe over quarter million Palestinians murdered because his Jewish blood is worth more than theirs?
Yes....he "let's" Ilan Pappe make a statement, then proceeds to say, "Yes,,.....but THAT being said...",.....dude, Pappe said it a MILLION times to you : If you're going to condemn/label Hamas as a "terrorist" organization, then you HAVE to codemn/label Israel as a "terrorist" state.
so many untruths and deliberately false definitions such as 'occupation' or the comparisons equating such different violent actions as in Algeria with the terrorist act of October 7th. Anyone who doesn't emphasize the differences (and there are countless, qualitative ones) is trying to mislead. Regarding the Goldstone report: the author himself criticized many things in an article in the Washington Post and also emphasized that his report was the first time that the “illegal terrorist acts of Hamas” were investigated and condemned by the UN - this fact is “not often enough “been perceived. Or implemented, one might add. He hoped that the investigation into all aspects of the Gaza conflict would "bring about a new era of impartiality for the UN Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be questioned." He also harbored the hope, “albeit unrealistic,” that Hamas would investigate allegations of war crimes and reduce attacks on Israel. It was “sad that this was not the case”. Pappé's example of the "kidnapped child" is disgusting and somewhat abusive.. “Pro-Palestinian” activists - those who see October 7 as legitimate “resistance” - want us to believe that the genocidal barbarism of October 7 was a natural, almost inevitable response to years of Israeli oppression. This narrative is part of an ongoing dehumanization of Palestinians in which Western activists depict Palestinians as a sort of single-cell organism capable only of responding to external stimuli. Palestinians, in this ridiculously common narrative, are incapable of human restraint, driven to acts of unprecedented bloodthirst as though they lack all behavioral control. This racism of the lowest expectations permeates the Western activist imagination, an Orientalism that has no parallel in progressive politics as it applies to any other group on earth.
Yes, he is very annoying and so much more I care not to say. Meanwhile he has taken all my comments down. Wow what a surprise. Perhaps Pappe knows this kid’s dad and that’s why he patiently sat through this.
The only thing I disagree with IIan on is Hamas using terror against terror. The Palestinians were left no other option. They tried everything possible, legal, peaceful or otherwise.
They were offered a state and then rejectred it. What mass peaceful movement have they attempted? This isnt to absolve Israel but to say the Palestinians have no exhausted their options for a peaceful settlement or a mass peace movement and even doing nothing is better, obviously the violence is a lot worse for them just look at Israels reaction to it and the U.S isnt even flinching with their support
TO MY WHY OF THINKING (AFTER CUTTING THROUGH THE OCTOBER 7TH ZIONIST PROPAGANDA) IT WAS MORE OF A MILITARY ATTACK BY GUERILLAS, MANY OF THOSE FIGHTERS BORN INTO SLAVERY IN THEIR ANCESTOR'S COUNTRY. EVEN HA'ARETZ DEBUNKS THAT OCTOBER HORSE MANURE, WHICH SOON TO BE X PRESIDENT BIDEN NEVER STOPPED REPEATING; EVEN CLAIMING TO HAVE SEEN PICTURES OF 40 DECAPITATED BABIES. "BOTTOM LINE" IS YOU EITHER SUPPORT THE DEATHS OF 100,000 CIVILIANS IN GAZA (YES MOST RECENT ESTIMATE) OR YOU DON'T. K.I.S.S. KEEP IT SIMPLE
Israel could have put its military efforts into its defense dome and the failures of Oct 7th instead of responding with wholesale attacks on civilians, culminating in genocide. The Manhattan kidnap analogy is powerful.
@@Lovewins0356 I disagree. I think the host is trying to represent a different perspective for the sake of the dialogue and the listeners. He’s gracious and receptive to Ilan.
@@machsimillian14 well in any case it’s important that this perspective get airtime outside of the usual echo chambers. For whatever reason, Ilan was able to lay out a sober and coherent case in this format
@@CleekschreyHe's better than many, but still hung up on redundant October 7th story even HA'ARITZ now DEBUNKS. This host likely knows nothing about the Zionist agenda (commited to writings) BEFORE the first act of terrorism which devastatingly revealed who the terrorists were. KING DAVID HOTEL 1946
Great discussion, lot to learn from Pappe, thank you❤ Resistance to illegal occupation is not terrorism. If this is not understood, nothing can be understood, from George Washington to Nelson Mandela to Mahatma Gandhi to Ho Chi Minh, right down to Palestinian resistance
Gazans were not under occupation before Oct. 7 and their movement cannot be called one of "resistance" as their aim from day one has been to replace the free and democratic state of Israel with a genocidal Islamic theocracy.
Thank you! I really appreciate this type of honest, positive feedback. I hope that you subscribe and look out for the upcoming interviews! And -- please continue leaving comments! I'll try to reply to each one
Thank you for your guest and Gideon in another video. Your questions are excellent and perspective is open to dialogue and a future for all in these very dark days.
The patience and respect with which Ilan Pappé responds, contextualizes, and explains are formidable. We all need to know and study historical facts, especially young people, so as not to fall into the immediate traps of Western propaganda. Thank you very much, Sr. Pappé! 💐
Ilan Pappé is an Israeli historian, political scientist, and former politician. He is a professor with the College of Social Sciences and International Studies at the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, director of the university's European Centre for Palestine Studies, and co-director of the Exeter Centre for Ethno-Political Studies. Pappé was also a board member of the Israeli political party Hadash, and was a candidate on the party list in the 1996and 1999 Israeli legislative elections.
@@manubande Dear heart, you may not know this, but we don't describe a scholar who spent his entire career promoting a demonstrably false narrative of his country's founding as a "man of integrity."
@@danielhabibian9420 He freely admits that he lets facts take a backseat to his ideology and other Israeli historians don't take him seriously for that reason.
Thank you Ilan and thank you interviewer, a distinguished and dignified conversation and Ilans proposals are courageous and hopeful for a better future for the Palestinians & Israelis.
Ilan Pappe is such an important voice. He speaks with authority because he knows what he’s talking about, and with humanity, because he’s a beautiful decent ethical powerhouse of a human himself. Unlike some other commentators I have no problem with the interviewer. It can take a while before you lose a certain position that you’ve held long, heard over and over again and is deeply ingrained. I think he did ask the questions (concerns) many people with a (too uninformed) position that leans toward Israel have and he was respectful with Pappe, (how could you not) and it looks like he took Pappe seriously, called Pappe fascinating person, also agree with quite some points.. he wasn’t at al like Destiny or Piers Morgan and alike for example. I think the audience of this interviewer, especially if they’re not all too informed and quite propagandized Zionists light, (you can’t convince the extreme ones) will be very much served by these questions, (because they’re their questions) and by the rational thoughtful coherant informative responses and also demeanor and personality of Pappé.
Professor Pappe should've given a very relative example to that guy's question about whether the Jews would be treated fairly if the palastinians were the majority in one country, the example is that in Palastine prior to Israel, all palastinians Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived with equality and peacefully, also, throughout the history in all countries under Islamic rule all lived together peacefully and with equality
This is the problem. Despite the bloody oppressive history Islamists are telling us that everything was well under islamic rule. The history is there to see. Pappe does not realize that these people are not seeking equality; they're seeking dominance. This might not be obvious to him because they think their dominance will result in equality for all and they speak of it in those terms. But he seems to be speaking of equality with no one dominating. The fascistic ideology cannot be wished away. A one-state will inevitably lead to Islamofascists trying to take over.
Lol good point! People tend to be very polarized, and tend to think that only THEIR opinion is right. I think it's important to hear the other perspective in a good-faith discussion!
Dear Mr Pappe, you were in top form, THANK YOU! Such clarity conciseness… and I felt a near- fatherly attitude to the young still- brainwashed interviewer… maybe you cracked open just one crack his defences. Many thanks, hugely appreciated!❤
Thank you both so much for this interview. It is so refreshing to witness a coherent and civilized exchange these days. I am heartened and inspired to know that such people as Ilan Pappe exist and are so engaged in this conflict. He would be a very valuable asset in any conflict because of his intelligence, wisdom and compassion. I wish we had such leaders in the USA, instead of the corrupt degenerates who exchange "leadership" roles every few years. I hope Professor Pappe will be able to gain more influence in the very near future because the region and the world need him and his ilk to be influencing or leading in some important capacity.
Such a brilliant discussion. Thank you Jake for your willingness to listen and learn. Thank you Ilan for your understanding, your integrity, your humanity and your vision. How different the world would be if we had leaders like you.
I like Pappe, he is an empathetic man and he is brave and wise. He is also completely wrong about this. We could have peace today if the Palestinians want it. They could have a state, they could have security they could have a great economy. But they prefer to destroy Israel.
The interviewer is doing gymnastics with his questions to get Ilan to say Hamas is wrong period and Israel is its victim. Hats off to the professor for being so patient and explaining. You are a truth teller, a mensch and a real teacher. A leader. As for the interviewer, you're not learning anything because your mind is made up; you are not interested in the truth, only finding a fit for your choice of a side. And that is a real pity, young man. I come from South Africa. I was furious at our liberation leaders for the negotiations and reconciliation process. For years I felt contradictions--the anger of seeing white people get away without being accountable, and keeping all the wealth they stole. But I finally understood that if I had the choice at that moment to make, I would choose to end apartheid. Yes, it was a legal victory, in the sense that the apartheid statuettes were dismantled. We now have a fighting chance to build real peace. But socially and economically and politically too, we have a far way to go. But we do not any longer have an army and a police force that is going around shooting black people willy nilly. We still have inequality and black people are still suffering because whites still own 80% of the country's wealth and the main political parties--now sitting in the GNU--are all anti-poor. But, we have stopped the wanton, systematic killing of black people by white people. When you have that, you have no air to live. We have that air and hope now to move towards life as opposed to the necropolitics of the apartheid regime. It will be a similar situation in a sovereign Palestine, I think. And, like us, it will be another struggle to bring socio-economic equality as well as eradicating various forms of marginalization. But, hey--Aluta Conitinua! Let the struggle continue.
Prof Peppe we are so grateful to be able to read your books and also listen to such a fair and learned man such as you. I wish our politicians had your wisdom.
As a Palestinian I say Ilan is the best. And I agree with his idea which suggests that the only viable solution to the problem is a one secular democrátic state for all, Jews, Christians, and Muslims with the same rights and the same obligations. It is not Very easy But it is doable.
Asking him about what his parents would think and how they died to try and find some kind of gotcha point is pretty twisted. His answers were level headed and emotionless but that was wrong nonetheless
Ilan Pappe! What a kind, compassionate human being. I share in his views of the solution - One Democratic State with full rights of citizenship for all of its inhabitants.
@jake why cant you say the isarels terrorism is abhorrent?? that's my problem with how you are describing hama"s "terror". it's not terror when its defending and resisting years and years of occupation and then siege. would you say the same about Ukraine fighting Russia?? ofcourse not. because its double standards and racism at its best.
Looking at illans age he has all the life experiences and all the intelligence and right to speak the truth and speak from his heart what great comments from a great man
Here is the Timeline:
00:00 - Introduction
03:08 - What should Israel have done after October 7th?
13:11 - Hamas
15:56 - Buildup to October 7th
21:46 - Is Hamas a terrorist group?
30:00 - Zionism
32:48 - The Solution
34:22 - One State Solution
37:07 - Do the Jews Deserve a State?
39:00 - What would Ilan Pappe's parents do?
41:47 - Do Jews Need Israel?
45:27 - Antisemitism
49:08 - lan Pappe's Life Story
52:43 - Ilan Pappe was detained at a US Airport
If Prof Pappe had been in charge of the IDF when Oct 7th happened as a result of an intelligence failure on what would have been his watch, he would have displayed dismay and contrition and resigned
Because he's a good man
Instead you had someone who was visibly delighted that they could have the war they always wanted
The problem with Jake is he thinks Iranians are not humans his head is brainwashed all he knows is Iran wanted to destroy Israel never mind asking why? what did Israel do to deserve such treatment? it all goes back to the occupation, Israel is not the victim here, If you ask any Nazi leader why he did what he did he will give you an excuse
Jake doesn't know that people who choose to forgive their attackers are not weak but strong it takes courage to forgive and those who watch will understand this unless they are stupid
“...People nowadays have so much karma that they are soaked in it, and they will encounter unpleasant things at any time and in any situation. Bad things await a person the moment he steps out the door. When there are disagreements, however, people do not endure them and fail to realize that they are paying off their karma from the past. If a person is not treated well by others, he will treat others even worse, thereby producing new karma before paying for the old. This makes society’s moral values decline daily, and everyone becomes enemies among one another. Many people cannot understand this: What’s happened to people today? What’s going on with today’s society? If mankind continues like this it will be extremely dangerous!”
(“Sickness karma”, “Essentials for Further Advancement I”)
“..With regard to Shan [Compassion] alone, when it manifests in human society some everyday people who are attached to everyday people’s society might raise an ordinary human social question: “If everyone learned Dafa [Great Law] and practiced Shan, how would we handle foreign invasions or wars against us?” In fact, I have already said in Zhuan Falun that human society’s development is driven by the evolution of the cosmic climate. Are mankind’s wars accidental, then? A region with a lot of karma or a region where the people’s minds have become bad is bound to be unstable. If a nationality is to be truly virtuous, it must have little karma; it is certain there will be no wars against it. This is because the principles of Dafa prohibit it, as the nature of the universe governs everything. One doesn’t need to worry that a virtuous nation will be invaded. The nature of the universe-Dafa-is present everywhere and encompasses the entire cosmic body, from the macroscopic level to the microscopic level. The Dafa I teach today is not only taught to Eastern people, but also to Westerners at the same time. Their kind people should also be saved. All nationalities that should enter the next, new historical era will obtain the Fa and improve as a whole. It is not just a matter of one nationality. Mankind’s moral standard will also return to that of original human nature.
Li Hongzhi
July 20, 1996”
(“A Brief Explanation of Shan [Compassion], “Essentials for Further Advancement I”) from Falun Dafa teachings by Master Li Hongzhi
"...Incidents such as Jesus being crucified have become the precedent for high-level beings who come down to save people. How could that be acceptable? That itself is degenerate! A god comes down to save people, yet humans crucify him-what a huge sin they have committed! They are still paying for it today."
(Teachings at the Conference in Europe
Hongzhi Li
May 30-31, 1998 ~ Frankfurt, Germany), from Falun Dafa teachings by Master Li Hongzhi
Ilan is a hero of mine his honesty and integrity a rarest of things
Because you prefer to believe in lies 😂
I agree!
The truth is difficult to listen too so you prefer denial to diminish the messenger
@@TheWaveSonyou
I see Jake the interviewer agreed that I believed in lies but he did not have the courage to call Ilan a lier to his face because truth will persevere.
What an amazing interview. Ilan Pappe answers all the questions so brilliantly and in that way dispels many Zionist talking points in one thrust. Always a pleasure to listen to his analysis. Thank you for sharing this!
thank you for this feedback!
I'll be posting more interviews like this... I hope that you subscribe if you enjoyed it! (and my apologies if you've already subscribed!)
@@jakenewfieldcongrats for this.Are you a Zionist?or are you just support an Israeli State
Pappé is an Israel hater and obstinate spreader of untruths and distortions of facts
@@Faiez-rh1gm what is your definition of Zionist?
Ilan Pappe is a kind, compassionate human being.
As a Palestinian it’s always a pleasure to hear Ilan Pappe. So much love and respect to this man . I come from a large family and I was always told our fight is not with the Jews or Judaism but our struggle and resistance is against Zionism. The way I was raised is one day we and the Jews would live in the land equally and peacefully.
As an Ashkenazi Jew, and as a human first, I hope for this too. Everyone deserves equality and justice, no exceptions, no erasure, no dehumanization. It's terribly hurtful for all of humanity when any of us are treated as Palestinians are. I had a small family and now it is smaller due to my support for Palestine. I don't regret it. Now everyone's true colours come out. I think that many are afraid to lose family and community so they stay silent or follow the status quo. It's not a good excuse, but a reason. I'm so sorry for the injustices you've endured whether in diaspora or the Palestinian territories. Don't give up
Yes just like Palestine before the 1930s basically
@@randomgamerdude98no not like Palestine before 1930
What a twisting of reality .
It was nothing but peaceful
And controlled by a foreign colonial power .
How and why should we go back there ?
Your entire premise is wrong from its core.
Even the most leftist Israeli is a Zionist .
For multiple times over 50% and up to 70% of those Zionists of the Israeli citizens voted to have a two state solution voted to give up the entire west bank land to the Arab Palestinians who are there.
You live in a falls Arab story which became a western leftist story about Zionism is a racist ideology, ethno supremacist, radical religious, with some crazy aims to control the entire middle east or Levant.
I think you are confusing it with your own religion for a start
But this lie which is the so common view point among Palestinians (I wonder why) is the main reason why peace isn't even an option
Professor Ilan Pappe is a wise man.
agreed!
He’s an idiot
Yeah. Mentioned South Africa as a success. I’m sure all the 60% of the women, which were raped, totally agree
@@jakenewfield You're asking weird questions dude?! How to demonstrate your lack of knowledge of the Israel-Palestine exposed after this interview...
@@jakenewfieldyou are not a worthy interviewer as you are giving this man a platform to spread his lies while you are weak in your questions, you should be called out big time!!
Brilliant interview, the polite and calm discourse allowed ideas to be formed and the listener the time to absorb and reflect on both sides. One the best interviews of Ilan Pappe who's interviews I always try and catch, he is such a clear, knowledgeable and reasonable voice.
Wow, thank you for this feedback! I appreciate it
Such a great interview that shows the irrationality of Zionists.
I never get tired of listening to Ilan Pappe, thank you
Me too..!😄
Cause you're probably a liar too
Thanks!
I'll be posting more interviews like this... I hope that you subscribe if you enjoyed it! (and my apologies if you've already subscribed!)
Yes, me too 😍
YES, Jake. I just discovered your channel...because I saw Ilan Pappe's name. I'm ordering his books but I also love listening to him. I like his careful, rational and humane approach to problem solving. And of course, he has so many historical facts in hand and the wisdom that sees their significance.
Thank you Ilan Pappe. The host sadly believes all the Zionist talking points but he is to be complimented for inviting such a highly respected guests.
🎯
I agree that the host should be complimented for that. This is a gentleman who is interested in learning and that’s an excellent.
@@rzein-j8w Thank you! I'll be posting more interviews like this... I hope that you subscribe if you enjoyed it! (and my apologies if you've already subscribed!)
@@sonyaahmed4168 Yes isn't it strange when a host believes the truth instead of an endless stream of pro-"Palestinian" lies?
@jeffreywilheim5970 the truth is there is an unnecessary genocide when the aggressor has always been the occupier. Being Pro Palestinian is being pro humanity. The only myth and lie is that Israel is a democracy. Clearly, chosen pple do not believe in freedom for Palestinians. They are treated worst than slaves during nat Turner era America
It is beautiful to see that professor Pappe could so eloquently present a proposal for the process of decolonization of Israel Palestine. Bravo!!
@@mysteryliasarts3176 excellent comment. Most comments here are the typical Anti Zionism fluff.
I noticed that @nano61 does not want to elaborate beyond the talking point. Interesting, but not surprising
He points out the impossibility of creating a two state solution due to almost one million Jewish occupants of Palestines.
Also this ignorant host (a nice fellow) does not even know that Israel was not founded due to the German Holocaust. Also his timeline? of anti Semitism is ridiculously ignorant
I must say he provided a respectful & a good platform for Pappe
@@lancemanfredi6123 The Jews accepted the Partition plan.
The Arabs didn't want to share, so they rejected the plan and started a gen0 cidal war. They thought it would be an easy victory:
In a February 1948 UN memorandum, Azzman Pasha, the secretary-general of the Arab League, referring to May 1948 stated, “This war will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre that will be spoken of like the Mongol massacres and the Crusades.”
Simple
@rywt4zc, plan aleph in the north - followed by plans bet and gimel in the rest of historic Palestine, which merged into plan dalet due to the surprising ease, with which the migrants could carry out milit'ry campaigns against the native peasants, farmers, villagers ad even township - were begun rolled out in December '47 already. By May '48, when neighbours finally interfered, a quarter of a million native people had already been sent into abysmal situations, that is of those, who survived, ofcourse.
@@OldTeaMate "The migrants"?
Robert F. Kennedy visited the British Mandate of Palestine in 1948. He said:
"The Jews point with pride to the fact that over 500,000 Arabs, in the 12 years between 1932-1944, came into Palestine to take advantage of living conditions existing in no other Arab state".
Economic Arab migration.
Jews had been purchasing land and establishing towns way before 1948:
Petah Tikva - est 1878
Rosh Pina - est 1882
Rishon Lezion - est 1882
Zichron Yaacov - est 1883
The guest is awesome honorable decent human being. you can't occupy people's land and make it your own country.
You can if you buy off the biggest military of the world to give you unlimited support
Pappe is so patient! I would've lost it after the fifth time he repeated the same stupid question
Exactly
These ppl are soft genocide apologists.
Just a minute, the interviewer is doing well. He wasn't just repeating, he was recontectualizing, and inviting his interviewer to elaborate.
the most honest and important Israeli historian bar none
Pappe's right in saying that khamosh is not a terrorist organization. It has made repeated public statements, most recently in April 2024, that "Israelis and jews are not our enemy, our fight is against the Zionist apartheid state, which illegally occupies Palestinian territories, in violation of UN resolutions and international law."
Oh shut up... You are actually justify terror
Sure they are terorists, either you are one of them, and therefore publish this nonsense, or that you are so brainwashed with hate for Israel that you will justify anything, including such horrible actions by Hamas. As Ilan Pape is by the way.
Hamas?
@@rootin222 yes
so many untruths and deliberately false definitions such as 'occupation' or the comparisons equating such different violent actions as in Algeria with the terrorist act of October 7th. Anyone who doesn't emphasize the differences (and there are countless, qualitative ones) is trying to mislead.
Regarding the Goldstone report: the author himself criticized many things in an article in the Washington Post and also emphasized that his report was the first time that the “illegal terrorist acts of Hamas” were investigated and condemned by the UN - this fact is “not often enough “been perceived.
Or implemented, one might add.
He hoped that the investigation into all aspects of the Gaza conflict would "bring about a new era of impartiality for the UN Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be questioned." He also harbored the hope, “albeit unrealistic,” that Hamas would investigate allegations of war crimes and reduce attacks on Israel. It was “sad that this was not the case”.
Pappé's example of the "kidnapped child" is disgusting and somewhat abusive..
“Pro-Palestinian” activists - those who see October 7 as legitimate “resistance” - want us to believe that the barbarism of October 7 was a natural, almost inevitable response to years of Israeli oppression. This narrative is part of an ongoing dehumanization of Palestinians in which Western activists depict Palestinians as a sort of single-cell organism capable only of responding to external stimuli. Palestinians, in this ridiculously common narrative, are incapable of human restraint, driven to acts of unprecedented bloodthirst as though they lack all behavioral control. This racism of the lowest expectations permeates the Western activist imagination, an Orientalism that has no parallel in progressive politics as it applies to any other group on earth.
This is an amazing interview. One thing though that Pr Pappe forgot to correct you on : the Hamas charter doesn't have anything calling for the killing of Jews or antisemitic since its update in 2017.
Yeah, they got smart and took out any mention of Jews and adopted the buzzwords of the woke worldview. This excerpt from their 2017 update gives you a pretty good idea where their hearts are:
“The Zionist project is a racist, aggressive, colonial and expansionist project based on seizing the properties of others; it is hostile to the Palestinian people and to their aspiration for freedom, liberation, return and self-determination. The Israeli entity is the plaything of the Zionist project and its base of aggression.
The Zionist project does not target the Palestinian people alone; it is the enemy of the Arab and Islamic Ummah posing a grave threat to its security and interests. It is also hostile to the Ummah’s aspirations for unity, renaissance and liberation and has been the major source of its troubles. The Zionist project also poses a danger to international security and peace and to mankind and its interests and stability.”
If that doesn’t sway you, consider the ubiquitous use of “yahood” in their media. It’s always good to listen to what people say in their own language.
Thanks for this feedback! And, in the same manner of directness that I strived for in this interview, I'd like to graciously ask you to subscribe to my channel. If this request is obnoxious, please let me know!
I love Ilan Pape. He always has the right answer .
One democratic Palestine where all are equal irrespective of color, race, religion are free to pursue their happiness
Agree. At the least, rename Tel Aviv to Israel.
@@oliveoil5789or simply call it something new that is neither Palestine nor Israel. Peaceland or Holyland.
@@zq_77 levantine republic
It was a land for all practitioners of all 3 Abrahmic faiths , until the Europeans arrived on boats to take the land.
@@virgil4marvolo5crowl ok well that was 100 years ago... and most of those people are dead. time to think about the future not dwell on the past
Ilan is very patient. The host is either playing devils advocate or very dense. The ironic thing is that this is not complicated at all.
He's not playing devils advocate, he IS devils advocate!
He's under the misconception that Jews claimed a state in israel and this happened peacefully? (Blatantly disregarding all the massacres firmly documented in history, k-lling so many young Palestinian men and boys to cull any attempt for resistance) This is why a debate with a Zionist is futile, completely useless! They lie and they lie badly!
Absolutely agree. Pappe is a master intellectual and his integrity shows through here with these questions. This kid is coming from Bra AIN wash concepts… and Pappe showed enormous patience. The questions themselves and the tone in which he is asking them - are so obvious. Ilan Pappe - thank you for being so patient with the uninformed of this world and their rudeness, in - I have to say - your very great presence. But because of how awkward this interview appears, Pappe is very clear and it may be a good video to give those that need to hear what he has to say.
@@lisabahouth8893 At 22:05, Pappe claims that "Ham ass is part of the Palestinian Liberation Organization". He also claims it is partly secular, and partly religious.
There are a few problems with that:
PLO and Fatah are considered as less extreme, or religious, than Ham ass
Ham ass is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, not the PLO
Ham ass means "Islamic Resistance", it is a religious Islamist organization
The PLO stands for Palestine Liberation Organization - not "Palestinian" as he claims. Because, in 1964, the "Palestinian Arab" identity had not been created yet.
At 21:50, Pappe is wrong about the charter, too. What is your understanding of the Ham ass charter? We can discuss
@@rywt4zc You can't actually argue with a word that Ilan Pappe says so you play semantics with a slip of the tongue where Pappe uses the word 'organisation' in a way he clearly follows up to make clear he means the Palestinian/Palestine liberation movement.
More nonsense from you about the Palestinian Arabs and 1964...that's school boy stuff, go read some books.
And you do know that Hamas changed their charter? Or is that too inconveniant for you?
The Palestinian people have a right under international law to resist their occupation
@@rywt4zc I believe he has in mind that the PLO is an umbrella term for a coalition of different parties, with widely varying ideologies, and that as a Palestinian national movement Hamas belongs in that coalition.
Yes they are an Islamic Resistance Movement. Resistance against what? The Israeli occupation of Palestine.
The distinction you draw between Palestine and Palestinian in the name of the PLO is meaningless. For example, back in 1923 Jabotinsky in his seminal essay The Iron Wall recognised that the native population of Palestinian Arabs had the same instinctive jealous love of Palestine as the Aztecs for Mexico, and the Sioux for the prairies, and so would inevitably resist colonisation. For Jabotinsky, they belonged to Palestine in the same way that other people, whom today we would call indigenous, belonged to their homelands.
What a lovely discourse! I agree 100% with Ilan Pappes analysis. Grateful that the host was brave enough to hold space for this conversation.
Fantastic interview. I hope more people see it, watch it and really listen to it.
Thanks you for this generous feedback! I appreciate it. And, in the same manner of directness that I strived for in this interview, I'd like to graciously ask you to subscribe to my channel. If this request is obnoxious, please let me know!
Ilan is 100 percent correct
Great conversation. Really appreciate Pappe and your willingness to listen to him.
Thanks! I appreciate this feedback and it would also help my channel if you would be willing to subscribe! I apologize for the direct-request, but hey -- I want to be direct!!
@@jakenewfield Sure thing, done!
Integrity is such a beautiful character trait
I agree! I appreciate this feedback AND if you would be willing to subscribe to my channel it would really help me out. Thank you.
@@jakenewfield sorry if U support isreal I won't sub ur channel showed up on my algorithm because of illan
"Israel got entry into UN in 1949 by agreeing to fulfill two conditions
- there will be a Palestinian state nearby the Israeli state (UN Resolution 181, binding on all states)
- all the Palestinians who were made refugees by Israel in 1948 will be allowed to return to their original homes. (Resolutions 194, of Security Council, binding on all states)
None of these 2 conditions were fulfilled by Israel till date, thus undermining its own membership"
-Dr Mustafa Berghouti, leader of Palestinian Initiative
Que nombre tiene quien no respeta la ley??? Cr...
@@EduIglesias-w3q means?
@@santichatterjee7284 means "criminales sionistas israelíes"
@@EduIglesias-w3qIsrael did not RESPECT THE LAW! AND commits GENOCIDE!
Mis respetos desde España para Illan Pappe, siempre un placer escucharle!!!
Such a beautiful conversation - Thank you!
Thank you!
@@jakenewfield Jake are you seriously this dense?! Why don't you intervene Briahna Joy Gray, someone who is a lawyer by trade and is extremely coherent and sharp in her arguments when it comes to the Israel-Palestine issue.
God bless Mr Pappe, a very wise man, a man of integrity. A rare gem
Ilan Pappe gives us such an intelligent and insightful view. This conversation should be listened to far and wide. By the way, Palestinians are semite, too. I think that if Ilan Pappe’s idea of the one state solution, the whole world would wholeheartedly support and help with its fair and just implementation according to universally accepted laws and principles. Except for the West, they won’t like it.
Thank you for this feedback!! And, in the same manner of directness that I strived for in this interview, I'd like to graciously ask you to subscribe to my channel. If this request is obnoxious, please let me know!
@@jakenewfieldof course!
@@jakenewfield Asking once is enough. Maybe pin one request at the top of the comments field.
so many untruths and deliberately false definitions such as 'occupation' or the comparisons equating such different violent actions as in Algeria with the terrorist act of October 7th. Anyone who doesn't emphasize the differences (and there are countless, qualitative ones) is trying to mislead.
Regarding the Goldstone report: the author himself criticized many things in an article in the Washington Post and also emphasized that his report was the first time that the “illegal terrorist acts of Hamas” were investigated and condemned by the UN - this fact is “not often enough “been perceived.
Or implemented, one might add.
He hoped that the investigation into all aspects of the Gaza conflict would "bring about a new era of impartiality for the UN Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be questioned." He also harbored the hope, “albeit unrealistic,” that Hamas would investigate allegations of war crimes and reduce attacks on Israel. It was “sad that this was not the case”.
Pappé's example of the "kidnapped child" is disgusting and somewhat abusive..
“Pro-Palestinian” activists - those who see October 7 as legitimate “resistance” - want us to believe that the barbarism of October 7 was a natural, almost inevitable response to years of Israeli oppression. This narrative is part of an ongoing dehumanization of Palestinians in which Western activists depict Palestinians as a sort of single-cell organism capable only of responding to external stimuli. Palestinians, in this ridiculously common narrative, are incapable of human restraint, driven to acts of unprecedented bloodthirst as though they lack all behavioral control. This racism of the lowest expectations permeates the Western activist imagination, an Orientalism that has no parallel in progressive politics as it applies to any other group on earth.
@@jakenewfield Thank you for your respectful hosting. Please do a bit of research about the history of the "indigenous" people of Palestine: perhaps starting with "Histories" of Herodotus (502 BC) and fast-forward to King David Hotel bombing by Zionist terrorists.
Ilan Pappe is my favorite. A true humanitarian. He is a transformative figure in history ❤
I like Ilan's analogy of the kidnapped child. It doesn't make sense to bomb the whole neighborhood to get the abductor. This is the problem with the current US and allies: They back Israel's massive bombings and artillary as necessary due to the use of "human shields," a dubious excuse and a war crime.
This is a nuanced an excellent discussion. Thank you.
The analogy makes zero sense. First, the aim of cops is to save civilians. Any other goal, eg detaining the perpetrator, is secondary. In war, the primary objective is to kill the enemy. Second, if the folks in the building were told to leave and refused, the logical assumption is they are collaborating or tacitly endorsing the kidnapper’s behavior.
Here’s the difference: in New York, there is a whole population willing to help save the kid. In Gaza, there is a whole population willing to help keep the child in captivity.
@@fab006 That's the most racist false excuse I've ever seen. You are disgustingly violent.
Thank you!! Also: would you be willing to subscribe to my channel? I apologize for this direct-request, but hey -- I want to be direct!!
@@jakenewfield I would if I could actually see my response to joge2468. Are you the one erasing it?
Thank you for telling the truth
This is such an important conversation to have, thank you Jake, thank you Illan.
Thanks for your feedback!
Brilliant Allan Pappe
Ilan is one of the few intelligent people on this issue.
Check out videos of, or interviews with: MAx Blumenthal, Aaron Matte and Jeremy Loffredo on the Gray Zone, , Useful Idiots with Aaron Matte and Katie Halper, Rhania Khalek, Chris Hedges, Miko Peled, Craig Mokhiber, and Norman Finkelstein and Bad Hasbara!
The host keeps pushing Ilan to condemn Hamas and is so reluctant to condemn Israel for the terrorism it’s commented over the last century. Perhaps the host is of Jewish descent and because of this, is hastily dismissive of maybe over quarter million Palestinians murdered because his Jewish blood is worth more than theirs?
Yes....he "let's" Ilan Pappe make a statement, then proceeds to say, "Yes,,.....but THAT being said...",.....dude, Pappe said it a MILLION times to you :
If you're going to condemn/label Hamas as a "terrorist" organization, then you HAVE to codemn/label Israel as a "terrorist" state.
so many untruths and deliberately false definitions such as 'occupation' or the comparisons equating such different violent actions as in Algeria with the terrorist act of October 7th. Anyone who doesn't emphasize the differences (and there are countless, qualitative ones) is trying to mislead.
Regarding the Goldstone report: the author himself criticized many things in an article in the Washington Post and also emphasized that his report was the first time that the “illegal terrorist acts of Hamas” were investigated and condemned by the UN - this fact is “not often enough “been perceived.
Or implemented, one might add.
He hoped that the investigation into all aspects of the Gaza conflict would "bring about a new era of impartiality for the UN Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be questioned." He also harbored the hope, “albeit unrealistic,” that Hamas would investigate allegations of war crimes and reduce attacks on Israel. It was “sad that this was not the case”.
Pappé's example of the "kidnapped child" is disgusting and somewhat abusive..
“Pro-Palestinian” activists - those who see October 7 as legitimate “resistance” - want us to believe that the genocidal barbarism of October 7 was a natural, almost inevitable response to years of Israeli oppression. This narrative is part of an ongoing dehumanization of Palestinians in which Western activists depict Palestinians as a sort of single-cell organism capable only of responding to external stimuli. Palestinians, in this ridiculously common narrative, are incapable of human restraint, driven to acts of unprecedented bloodthirst as though they lack all behavioral control. This racism of the lowest expectations permeates the Western activist imagination, an Orientalism that has no parallel in progressive politics as it applies to any other group on earth.
Yes, he is very annoying and so much more I care not to say. Meanwhile he has taken all my comments down. Wow what a surprise. Perhaps Pappe knows this kid’s dad and that’s why he patiently sat through this.
The Elephant In The Room, regarding this situation: The U S.
Ilan Pappe Kenya too is a success story.
Thank you for this amazing interview. What a great wisdom from professor Pappe. He is a remarkable man.
Thank you! I appreciate it1
The only thing I disagree with IIan on is Hamas using terror against terror. The Palestinians were left no other option. They tried everything possible, legal, peaceful or otherwise.
Yea it’s definitely some liberal JVP type of bullshit as if every single peaceful option was not already exhausted
'The peace' way in 75years ....and what the result? Land n people of palestinian more gone ...
They were offered a state and then rejectred it. What mass peaceful movement have they attempted? This isnt to absolve Israel but to say the Palestinians have no exhausted their options for a peaceful settlement or a mass peace movement and even doing nothing is better, obviously the violence is a lot worse for them just look at Israels reaction to it and the U.S isnt even flinching with their support
TO MY WHY OF THINKING (AFTER CUTTING THROUGH THE OCTOBER 7TH ZIONIST PROPAGANDA) IT WAS MORE OF A MILITARY ATTACK BY GUERILLAS, MANY OF THOSE FIGHTERS BORN INTO SLAVERY IN THEIR ANCESTOR'S COUNTRY.
EVEN HA'ARETZ DEBUNKS THAT OCTOBER HORSE MANURE,
WHICH SOON TO BE X PRESIDENT BIDEN NEVER STOPPED REPEATING; EVEN CLAIMING TO HAVE SEEN PICTURES OF 40 DECAPITATED BABIES.
"BOTTOM LINE" IS YOU EITHER SUPPORT THE DEATHS OF 100,000 CIVILIANS IN GAZA (YES MOST RECENT ESTIMATE) OR YOU DON'T. K.I.S.S. KEEP IT SIMPLE
Yeah these apologists need to look up what happened in 2018 and how the IDF responded to a peaceful protest movement. It's pretty disgusting.
Great interview
Thank you, llan pappe 👏
This kid thought he could corner Prof Pappé with those questions. Oh please..
Prof Papé is a legend ❤
Israel could have put its military efforts into its defense dome and the failures of Oct 7th instead of responding with wholesale attacks on civilians, culminating in genocide. The Manhattan kidnap analogy is powerful.
The host is very disinformed and quite biased. Ilan Pappe is a great historian and educator standing with truth and justice.
@@Lovewins0356 I disagree. I think the host is trying to represent a different perspective for the sake of the dialogue and the listeners. He’s gracious and receptive to Ilan.
@Cleekschrey that's being generous.
@@machsimillian14 well in any case it’s important that this perspective get airtime outside of the usual echo chambers. For whatever reason, Ilan was able to lay out a sober and coherent case in this format
👍
@@CleekschreyHe's better than many, but still hung up on redundant October 7th story even HA'ARITZ now DEBUNKS.
This host likely knows nothing about the Zionist agenda (commited to writings) BEFORE the first act of terrorism which devastatingly revealed who the terrorists were. KING DAVID HOTEL 1946
Great discussion, lot to learn from Pappe, thank you❤ Resistance to illegal occupation is not terrorism. If this is not understood, nothing can be understood, from George Washington to Nelson Mandela to Mahatma Gandhi to Ho Chi Minh, right down to Palestinian resistance
Gazans were not under occupation before Oct. 7 and their movement cannot be called one of "resistance" as their aim from day one has been to replace the free and democratic state of Israel with a genocidal Islamic theocracy.
Ilan Pappe is a great historian and a great human being, congratulations on this excellent report
This was SUCH a great interview. Thanks
Thank you! I really appreciate this type of honest, positive feedback. I hope that you subscribe and look out for the upcoming interviews! And -- please continue leaving comments! I'll try to reply to each one
Thank you for your guest and Gideon in another video. Your questions are excellent and perspective is open to dialogue and a future for all in these very dark days.
The patience and respect with which Ilan Pappé responds, contextualizes, and explains are formidable. We all need to know and study historical facts, especially young people, so as not to fall into the immediate traps of Western propaganda. Thank you very much, Sr. Pappé! 💐
With this interview and with Ilan , it shows that the only option is peace..
I agree!
Excellent interview
Thank you!
Ilan Pappé is an Israeli historian, political scientist, and former politician. He is a professor with the College of Social Sciences and International Studies at the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, director of the university's European Centre for Palestine Studies, and co-director of the Exeter Centre for Ethno-Political Studies. Pappé was also a board member of the Israeli political party Hadash, and was a candidate on the party list in the 1996and 1999 Israeli legislative elections.
And most important... he's a man of integrity with a very big heart !
"Ilan Pappe is a historical revisionist, an academic charlatan, and a traitor to the Jewish people." There, I fixed it for you.
@@manubande Dear heart, you may not know this, but we don't describe a scholar who spent his entire career promoting a demonstrably false narrative of his country's founding as a "man of integrity."
@@jeffreywilheim5970 what a load of bs. Demonstrably false? Narratively false you mean. He is as close to the historical record as one can be...
@@danielhabibian9420 He freely admits that he lets facts take a backseat to his ideology and other Israeli historians don't take him seriously for that reason.
Well done Jake for an open mind and giving different points of view a hearing.
Thanks!
Thank you Ilan and thank you interviewer, a distinguished and dignified conversation and Ilans proposals are courageous and hopeful for a better future for the Palestinians & Israelis.
Powerful interview. Thank you Jake
Thank you for watching!
How wise is this man!
Professor Pappe is such a thoughtful and calm and knowledgeable scholar. Very nice interview.
Thanks Ilan. Very objective and sincere. #freepalestine
Ilan Pappe is a great soul. I think he managed to open the mind of the interviewer just a little
Excellent interview, thank you.
Ilan Pappe is such an important voice. He speaks with authority because he knows what he’s talking about, and with humanity, because he’s a beautiful decent ethical powerhouse of a human himself.
Unlike some other commentators I have no problem with the interviewer. It can take a while before you lose a certain position that you’ve held long, heard over and over again and is deeply ingrained. I think he did ask the questions (concerns) many people with a (too uninformed) position that leans toward Israel have and he was respectful with Pappe, (how could you not) and it looks like he took Pappe seriously, called Pappe fascinating person, also agree with quite some points.. he wasn’t at al like Destiny or Piers Morgan and alike for example.
I think the audience of this interviewer, especially if they’re not all too informed and quite propagandized Zionists light, (you can’t convince the extreme ones) will be very much served by these questions, (because they’re their questions) and by the rational thoughtful coherant informative responses and also demeanor and personality of Pappé.
Professor Pappe should've given a very relative example to that guy's question about whether the Jews would be treated fairly if the palastinians were the majority in one country, the example is that in Palastine prior to Israel, all palastinians Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived with equality and peacefully, also, throughout the history in all countries under Islamic rule all lived together peacefully and with equality
This is the problem. Despite the bloody oppressive history Islamists are telling us that everything was well under islamic rule. The history is there to see.
Pappe does not realize that these people are not seeking equality; they're seeking dominance. This might not be obvious to him because they think their dominance will result in equality for all and they speak of it in those terms.
But he seems to be speaking of equality with no one dominating.
The fascistic ideology cannot be wished away. A one-state will inevitably lead to Islamofascists trying to take over.
Thank you for inviting him. Everyone needs to listen to Prof. Ilan Pappé. Next guest, how about Professor Avi Slaim?
Love the interview. The caption says, "pro Israel interviewer." Even if he is pro Israeli, he is very balanced and open to Ilan Pape's responses.
Wow! A civilised, reasoned debate on Oct 7. and its origins. What the hell happened?
Lol good point! People tend to be very polarized, and tend to think that only THEIR opinion is right. I think it's important to hear the other perspective in a good-faith discussion!
thank you mr. Ilan Pappé, your bravery to side with justice will be remembered throughout history, God bless you and keep you safe.
That was time well spent. An excellent interview. Relevant questions and in depth, erudite answers from a wise man. Thank you.
Dear Mr Pappe, you were in top form, THANK YOU! Such clarity conciseness… and I felt a near- fatherly attitude to the young still- brainwashed interviewer… maybe you cracked open just one crack his defences.
Many thanks, hugely appreciated!❤
Thank you both so much for this interview. It is so refreshing to witness a coherent and civilized exchange these days. I am heartened and inspired to know that such people as Ilan Pappe exist and are so engaged in this conflict. He would be a very valuable asset in any conflict because of his intelligence, wisdom and compassion.
I wish we had such leaders in the USA, instead of the corrupt degenerates who exchange "leadership" roles every few years. I hope Professor Pappe will be able to gain more influence in the very near future because the region and the world need him and his ilk to be influencing or leading in some important capacity.
Such a brilliant discussion. Thank you Jake for your willingness to listen and learn. Thank you Ilan for your understanding, your integrity, your humanity and your vision. How different the world would be if we had leaders like you.
Great conversation, thank you!
Thanks illan pappe for speaking out.
RUclips has started to delete my posts again. This will not make Israel win😂
🤣🤣🤣 Well... you're not the only one...
They delete mine also... As soon as I say something against you know who...
Pero no puede borrar nuestro pensamiento!!!!
@@bfworm Clearly it's Israel or Aipac agents in RUclips. We have to fight this, but how???
@@EduIglesias-w3qMeans?
I like Pappe, he is an empathetic man and he is brave and wise. He is also completely wrong about this. We could have peace today if the Palestinians want it. They could have a state, they could have security they could have a great economy. But they prefer to destroy Israel.
The interviewer is doing gymnastics with his questions to get Ilan to say Hamas is wrong period and Israel is its victim. Hats off to the professor for being so patient and explaining. You are a truth teller, a mensch and a real teacher. A leader.
As for the interviewer, you're not learning anything because your mind is made up; you are not interested in the truth, only finding a fit for your choice of a side. And that is a real pity, young man. I come from South Africa. I was furious at our liberation leaders for the negotiations and reconciliation process. For years I felt contradictions--the anger of seeing white people get away without being accountable, and keeping all the wealth they stole. But I finally understood that if I had the choice at that moment to make, I would choose to end apartheid. Yes, it was a legal victory, in the sense that the apartheid statuettes were dismantled. We now have a fighting chance to build real peace. But socially and economically and politically too, we have a far way to go. But we do not any longer have an army and a police force that is going around shooting black people willy nilly. We still have inequality and black people are still suffering because whites still own 80% of the country's wealth and the main political parties--now sitting in the GNU--are all anti-poor. But, we have stopped the wanton, systematic killing of black people by white people. When you have that, you have no air to live. We have that air and hope now to move towards life as opposed to the necropolitics of the apartheid regime. It will be a similar situation in a sovereign Palestine, I think. And, like us, it will be another struggle to bring socio-economic equality as well as eradicating various forms of marginalization. But, hey--Aluta Conitinua! Let the struggle continue.
Excellent interview 👏 👌
Ilan Pappé ... the normal, i.e. anti-Zionist Jew and Human Being! Respect and THANK YOU! 🙏
Illan is so great and patient.
Can you get Ilan Pappé to debate Destiny?
Awesome interview! 🙏🏻
Ilan Pappé is also an Israel supporter, just with a different point of view and understanding than the host
Professor PAPPE books are excellent
lan Pappé is a treasure and a gift to humanity
Prof Peppe we are so grateful to be able to read your books and also listen to such a fair and learned man such as you. I wish our politicians had your wisdom.
Another amazing interview Jake! Keep grabbing guests like Ilan
thanks dude!
As a Palestinian I say Ilan is the best. And I agree with his idea which suggests that the only viable solution to the problem is a one secular democrátic state for all, Jews, Christians, and Muslims with the same rights and the same obligations. It is not Very easy But it is doable.
So smooth Mr Pappe. Thank you for this amazing interview.
Thank you for your insight, your reasoning makes good sense . Both sides loose but in reality both sides can win for a better and safer future.
Asking him about what his parents would think and how they died to try and find some kind of gotcha point is pretty twisted. His answers were level headed and emotionless but that was wrong nonetheless
Ilan Pappe! What a kind, compassionate human being. I share in his views of the solution - One Democratic State with full rights of citizenship for all of its inhabitants.
Mr. Pappé, thanks for your viewpoint which is the only one possible in a normal world. But we are beyond normalcy now.
Ok I can't handle this guys hateful questions. I'm off!!!
@jake why cant you say the isarels terrorism is abhorrent?? that's my problem with how you are describing hama"s "terror". it's not terror when its defending and resisting years and years of occupation and then siege. would you say the same about Ukraine fighting Russia?? ofcourse not. because its double standards and racism at its best.
He doesn’t get it. Even when faced with the extraordinary patience of Ilan Pappe’s history, research and intellect tried to teach him…
Yeah this young guy have really asked the same question several times. Mooooove on
Superb interview from both parties. Totally agree there should be one democratic state with full equality and freedom for everyone.
I bow to you, Professor Pappe!
I'm truly baffled by how someone with the level of ignorance of the interviewer is able to receive Ilan Pappe and Gideon Levi on his show.
An interesting conversation and an education from a scho!ar with much experience.
Looking at illans age he has all the life experiences and all the intelligence and right to speak the truth and speak from his heart what great comments from a great man