How to Select and Purchase Battery Inverter Cables Part1
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- In this series I describe my method for choosing a proper gauge of cable for the application based on length, continuous draw, surge draw, and other factors. While a novice user would be best served by following the user manual, a more educated consumer would be better served by following this selection method.
This may or may not be such a minor point, but 1500W/12V = 125A. That's important when sizing cabling and selecting the correct fuse.
Is your inverter 100% efficient
My pure sine wave is
Attention 2 Detail Automotive Towing And Detailing there is no such thing as a 100% efficient inverter.
surprised to see people dont know how to use efficiency in the correct manner
Good info. Just a side note, on the front of the box, it says it has 3000 watts of surge power, not the 2000 that you thought.
This is sick why you thing every body understand what you talking about, can just say; for 2000w inverter you need ( L) and gauge (?) that’s it , just simplify OMG
Can u use altenator and moto to support alternator ,what i say..altenator 12 v,power invester have 3000 and 1300 ,out put 1300w and u use altenator to supply 12v to invettor an invertor supply power to moto support altenator to have 12v...and u have free elektrik because all rolling same time...understand what sat
It is the opposite, actually. AC travels on the outside of the wire at a certain depth and DC travels uniformally throughout the conductor. It is called 'Skin Effect' and at 60hz is mostly negligible. At higher frequencies you can use Litz wire to reduce its effects, but this is only done at 10's of khz and above. Uninsulated bundled conductors behave the same as a solid conductor as far as skin effect goes. The strands would need to be insulated to gain benefit.
Well thanks. Not going to run this 1800w thingy on this 12v thingy. Got it.
the first manual is correct in saying you can use 2awg wire. 1500w divided by 12v is 125amps. there for going off the chart you pulled up, using 2awg wire would be fine to use
I don't understand anything you are saying. I'm completely lost. All I want to do is find a good pure sine wave inverter for my semi truck and I feel like I'm traveling down a huge rabbit hole. This makes me not even want to buy an inverter smh.
Try the translated version?🤷🏼♂️
After I figure out how many amps will be needed ie 125 amps for a 1500 watt I add 10% to account for the power loss in the inverter so it will be 125+12.5=137.5 amps
Use any wire you like , just make sure to have a fuse or breaker sized for that wire. great info
I thought you would use ohms law. You are using a 1500 W inverter 1500 divided by 125 = 12 amps ac but on the DC side you figure it different. The draw From the batteries would be different 1500 divided by 12 = 125 amps I have no idea if this is right does anybody else know better.
complete part 1 and part 2 ...good result! Thanks man good Job!
Awesome videos. Thank you so much. Please tell me if my thinking is incorrect here. I am building a battery box for a small camp. After all the money I have spent thus far, why wouldn't I just get 4/0 cables cut to length and terminated with rings? Can you have too much wiring between your components!
you forgot to tell people that using solid wire for a DCv IS BAD. DCv work better with a multi stand wire... Example, 8g multi stand (200-250 or so) wire will work 100% better that a solid 8g wire for a DC application.. DC currant travels on the out side of a wire while ac currant travels on the inside of a wire....
As you are saying your inverter can surge 2000 watts, it's clearly written on the box 3000 watts surge?
What is written on the box of inverters is nearly always an objectively false lie. Surge ratings of inverters is entirely meaningless, and in general inverters with lower rated surge Wattages tend to perform better.
Hi, So it is OK to use solid wire for DC applications? I have 250' of free 12 awg romex house wire and have used it to wire my solar cabin, all in DC. Hope that's OK.
Yes, DC does not care whether the wire is solid or stranded. Only AC cares about that - look up 'skin depth' for more detail. Solid wire is less resistant to stress breakage and should never be used in a mobile application but for wiring in a cabin it is an economical choice.
Ok, just found your video's and I'm really enjoying them.
In your comments section you say that solid is ok for DC and even have a short discussion with Richard Downer about this.
If this is true... how about using a solid steel or aluminum bar to hook up batteries?
Power companies use solid bus bars to go between transformers and insulators in their substations.
My concern is: With every upgrade (adding more batteries or larger inverter) then I'd have to upgrade my cables to compensate for voltage and amperage. If you use a large enough bus bar to hook up between batteries then you, most likely, would never have to upgrade cables between batteries... ever; just add a bus bar for the new battery. I wouldn't mind purchasing short pieces of cable to go between bus bar and inverter but I'm hesitant to build cables every time I wish to add a battery, and I plan on adding batteries every few months as my system grows.
There's no reason that you couldn't use busbars. However, steel and aluminum have a higher electrical resistance than copper. Because of this, they're probably cheaper than copper busbars. However, they don't conduct electricity as efficiently.
Just remember that, because they have a higher resistance, they'd have to be thicker, if you want the overall resistance to be as low as copper's.
A higher resistance, may, or may not, matter, depending on your application. Just something to keep in mind.
I recognize that this answer is 7 years late. However, maybe it'll help someone else who's dealing with a similar issue.
The most important thing is to keep the low voltage cables as short as possible.
Thank-you! i just bought an inverter.... with no freekin' cables... :( and no clue on wtf to do :/
For my sub pump this coming stormy season... in case the power goes out...
can I use like jumper cables?
Great vid but talk too much... thanks
thx you explain very well Iam totaly new to all this inverters amps volts power packs I have a 400 amp 1200 volt power pack I want to get a heater for my van I would run about an 1 hr a day..I have a 1500 watt heater So ? is is a 3000 watt intverter good what brand would be good no solar one thanks great
Question: My bus battery is 24 volts (2 batteries connected). My Inverter is a 24volt to 12volt 720 watts. What GUAGE WIRE and LENGTH do you suggest for the wires from the Inverter to the vehicle batteries? is 2 feet ok with 0 guage wire?
How would some solid copper bus bars work out?
I'm unable to find a chart comparing AWG wire sizes and solid copper bus bars.
My solid copper bus bars are (inches) .250" thick X 1.250" wide. (1/4"X1-1/4")
They are less than 2-1/2 feet long.
They will bolt between the battery and inverter terminals.
Should these be adequate to connect my 5,000/10,000 watt 120v. ac AIMS INVERTER
to my (3 X 12v battery in parallel) bank of 125ah 12v AGM batteries? (375ah total)
Isn't there overload protection built into that inverter?
Can I get by without an additional fuse? If not, What type and size should it be?
Can a fuse just be bolted between the bus bar and the inverter input terminal?
(These components will all be bolted down securely within a sheet metal enclosed, metal framed, wheeled cart). Thanks in advance for your expertise and time.
-Practicalman
Why not just get an inverter with built-in cables that clamp to the battery?
Such inverters are not common and cables need to be designed for the system in use. Any inverter with built in battery cables is a sign of substandard design for this reason.
I have a 100 Watt Solar Panel Charger, (Output: DC18V/4.3A) hooked up to my battery with a 20A Solar Panel Charge Controller. Can i hook-up a car battery charger to my 800W Car Power Inverter to charge up the battery that the Inverter is running from, without damaging the solar panel or the controller to assist in charging the battery faster or at least slow down the draining of the battery?
So much talk with to little direct and relevant information.
Welding cable, neoprene jacketed. Easy to buy and terminate. 2Ga is more than large enough.
One more thing, the currents you could encounter can cause some serious issues or even death. DC, even at low voltages is dangerous and a healthy respect for it and the battery supplying it are a must. Batteries do catch fire and/or explode if shorted for more than the briefest of moments. Not to mention the dangers of the copper plasma that you are likely to encounter as well. 50,000 degree copper vapor in the face sound good?
Id like to put my batteries in the Bow and run cable to power my transom trolling motor. What kind of line losses can I expect over 24 feet ?
Size of cable you plan to use and rough steady state current draw of the motor need to be known. Assuming that the voltage of the battery is 12V. Simple Ohms law stuff, look it up.
48 seconds was enough for me!
That's longer than I lasted............………...…...lol. What a moron!
Just the facts Man. Talks allot but doesn't say much
You forgot one more example , how about climbing up the electric pole in the neighbor hood and cutting two pieces from there would that be adequate ? ( just kidding thanks for explaining.)
My 2 gauge wire doesn’t fit in my inverter, what type of connector do you use to connect them?
If a ferrule or ring terminal (depending on your inverter) cannot be used for mechanical reasons then a simple alternative is to cut a few strands of the wire to fit the termination required to fit. So long as your amperage is within the specs of the termination you will be OK regardless of the wire AWG.
@@knurlgnar24 thank you!
So i should be fine with running approx 5 to 10 feet of 4 guage to power an 1200 watt inverter that barely allows 900 watts before overload
A bit of ohms law would help, and always be generous for safety reasons including fire. Best keep runs short to inverter.
a tip: you can watch series at instaflixxer. Me and my gf have been using them for watching a lot of movies lately.
@Jamari Arian Definitely, been watching on InstaFlixxer for since november myself :D
Hi , I want a install a 2000 watts inverter for my semi truck I have 4 batterys , my question is the cable #4 gauge its recommended??
This video series covers how to select cables for that application but without knowing your precise application I would knee-jerk say that 4AWG will NOT be adequate. I recommend a minimum of 0AWG regardless of length. For a commercial install like you are describing I would personally get 4/0AWG cable and be done with it - the extra $100 is worth it on a rig you make a living with in my opinion. Besides, cables like that are worth their weight in copper so they will only appreciate anyway. I got some cables from AC/DC wire and supply recently and it seemed to be good stuff - they sell various lengths on their website and eBay. You can probably get by with 0AWG though if you choose.
Hello,this's Simon .Thanks so much, it's a good video ,useful for me .
Could i ask a question? It's about the certificate.
What standard should these cables apply for certificates?
UL10269?3666?
TUV 2pfg 2693?
We start to promote battery inverer cables this year but not clear that how to supply the certificates.
could u do me the favor?
Thanks
What if you are only running the cable to the inverter a very short distance? Say like 2 feet, is it safe to go down in wire size to like 4AWG or 6 AWG? Some calculators I find say this is fine, some say it's not. I feel like the distance of run is not always factored.
You still have to make sure the cable will not overheat. Many calculators will only factor in voltage drop which isn't the whole picture.
The Inverter manual has the cable size ya should use in it... Then Double it ...lol
Mine said to use 00 if 10' (combine red and black....both ways) I have 6' total ft. of both red and black so I picked the 2/0 cable... My Inverter is a Eastwood 2000/3000 Pure Sine Wave btw.....
i know this video is old but the inverter has a great surge great rating, in can do 2000 watts for several minutes and 3000 wants for brief periods i think you mis read the 2000 part. . . . [i own this inverter and luv it]
videos showed me the awg tables I need to set up my inverter to a 4 bank gfi in rear section of my car. I have tons of cable of different ga., but did not know about voltage drop. back to the drawing board, but I wont be doing any ripout and repairs ! about time I found a vid. with out any song and dance. and yes, my last name really is pizza
Those are NOT cables. You are using the WRONG terminology!
I do appreciate your recommendation, thank you so much. I like to install in to RV. If you have any good tips welcome. Any thing help, thank you what you do for a people, Milo.
I'd like to put my batteries in the Bow and run cable to power my transom trolling motor. What kind of line losses can I expect over 24 feet ?
I'm sure you have gone over it before, but what is the address of the second AWG table that you used. Thanks for the video, very big help.
hi what size cable do i need to connect two battery ( 34agm 750amp) to a 30amp converter and what size wire from bat to converter.
what about a 24 volt battery bank 600 amps across all batteries with a 24 volt inverter ? What size wire would I need ?
Thats 100% good info - thanks (still being outside US I would face some converting issues ;)
I have a number of booster cables but no way to know the gauge rating. Are they usable for my cables between the main and auxiliary batteries?
Jumper cables can be good sources of cabling but the cables are rarely the gauge advertised unfortunately. I've used jumper cables I cut in half many times as they are generally less expensive than purchasing the clamps separately. If you are willing to cut them you can measure the cross-section and get an estimate of gauge, or alternately you can simply run your max expected load through them for a long period of time (15mins or so) and check for warmth.
Dose the same calculation apply for a 230/240v inverter any help would be appreciated thanks
After adding water to a battery should I charge or discharge it I added water when it was at 100 percent
The best time to add water is when the battery is fully charged so you're good. There is some chance of the battery overflowing and becoming overfilled if too much water is added to a discharged battery as water level will slightly increase during charging. The plates must be fully covered with water before charging, however, to avoid further damaging the battery during charging.
the welding cables AWG versus the THHN cables are able to drawn more current?
using the formula P = VI you are little higher, this is due to the inverter consumption?
hey! i saw on one of your vids you bought a PowerJack inverter. Did yours have a voltage selector dial? what did you make of it?
un cliente queria un inversor que era una bolsa de burro y por la linea salia leche miles,si te gusto no te bane en el canal.
TMI, your confusing me! I have a low tension spans, get to the point...
Thank you so much what do I need to power a 3 bathroom house who have everything a house should have
How to choose the correct battery??
That's a good question and I do not have a video out about that. Perhaps in the future.
I want to mount a 2000 watt inverter that uses 2 power & 2 ground cables in my 2011 Wrangler 2 door. The inverter comes with 2 gauge cable, but is it ok to go up to 0 gauge and run it from battery to cargo area without causing issues? I'm mainly using it for a electric impact if I need to change a flat or run a small compressor for putting the tire pressure back to the right amount after airing down for trails.
Your videos are just terrific . I am a newbie building my first solar rig. your videos are chocked full of lessons and your smooth friendly demeanor is really appreciated !!
i want to power a coffee grinder of 500watts 240v using 2 6v car batteries and a 12v inverter. have you any advice or idea as to what cables etc i might need for this job?
This video covers sizing cables for the inverter which is the safest thing to do, however if you wanted to only run the grinder you could conceivably size the cabling for only 500W. I wouldn't recommend this but it would work. To be safe assume a 100% surge, so size the cabling for 100A surge and 50A continuous.
Also related to your choice of wire gauge is your choice of inverter. Most inverters are not designed to operate at even their rated capacity indefinitely without supplemental cooling. So, you should choose an inverter that is capable of providing a continuously rated amount of power that is twice what your intended load is going to require. So, if your load is 500 watts, your inverter should be rated at a continuous 1000 watts - but, you could get away with sizing your cable to handle the 500 watts, since running a 1000 watt load continuously is likely to result in eventual failure of the 1000 watt inverter in a rather short period of time, regardless of the size wire you're using.
This depends on the inverter and is a subject of many of my older videos. Well made inverters can handle continuous loads in excess of their ratings. Some can do this with good lifetime, some can't. Poorly designed inverters cannot handle even 50% right out of the box. I caution anyone against using rated inverter watts as a major factor in their decision without first considering the quality and marketing fluff part. Overall I consider your advice solid and I also derate to about 50% in my personal inverter choices. Thanks for commenting.
@@knurlgnar24 Of course, a $3000.00 5000 watt Victron inverter is likely to be able to handle its rated load indefinitely - but, your typical cheap Chinese inverter? Not so much. But, even with a big Victron inverter, you're still better off getting one that can handle twice your intended load requirements.
I make my own out of 2/0 cable and a 10 ton crimper...
Is there a downside to thicker than will ever be necessary cables? Such as using 2/0 when 6awg is all that is needed? Thank you.
No. Other than cost, there's no downside. This is because, when it comes to electrical connections, there's no such thing as having too little resistance.
Best way to find out is buy your inverter and check the papers for specs
I emphatically disagree. Consumer grade inverters almost never give correct information on cable or battery sizing. If you purchased a $5000 piece of equipment meant to be installed by professionals to meet international code standards then, yes, follow the instructions. Otherwise you will find the information missing, misleading, or incorrect.
get to the effin point!!!
Nah, I don't like to do that.
Wow. Get on with it.
OK
You talk to long bro
Who is 'long'? I don't recall talking to any 'long' in this video.
Awesome !!!!!!!!😅🎈😅🎈😅🎈😅🎈😅🎈😅🎈😅🎈😅🎈😅
Thank you so much, very informative and helpful. Appreciate it!
800 watt microwave only drawing 600watts from 1000 watt invertor?
the rated load varies. it's not always going to match the rating on the label
I'm 9 years late but still ,Thank you!!🙏🏿🙏🏿
I'm just happy to hear that this old video is still helping people! Info like this just isn't available elsewhere despite how critical it is which is why I made a video on it.
@@knurlgnar24 very helpful.
hi i have a solar setup im working on for my rv.. i have 400 watts of pannels and a 30 amp charge controller. im using standing house cables is this ok? soild copper like you would run a room off in a house..
it says on first inverter to not use more than five ft.
Great videos!
Thank you very much. Please make more.
Like your video on how to select cables for inverter...
Use meter like normal humans
What about fusing the cables?
You should use a 120 volt DC to 120 AC inveter, with a 120 volt battery bank this will give you best efficiancy and save you ton's of $$
120VAC requires about 160V DC peak for sinewave, or 140V peak for phase corrected AC. 120V DC would still require a boost stage in the inverter resulting in very little benefit.
If I have 2 12volt batteries connected in parallel does that make it a 24volt bank?
Dude how can you not consider your self an expert????
Because he is a fucking moron
Shorter and fatter !
Good video, Easily to understand
Greats video
Metric make more sense
Start at: 2:20.
Confusing as hell
B.sc electronics
mabe you need them all
Blah blah blah
Best info ever found!
about time
Thank You
Please
Good
oops I meant multi strand
LOL
Great information for people that need to know this
Where do you buy your wire?
A local source would be best, but I found the best pricing by purchasing in bulk online.
car audio shop but most copper is fake
very annoying
TMI
First of all, great videos. I appreciate you taking the time to share. I think the numbers in the table are for wire in a conduit and can be increased if the cables are in open air. I was wondering, I noticed in the battery video, you had a clamp on amp meter that measured dc current. Can I ask what model it is? Thank you again.
It is a Mastech MS2108A. It certainly isn't the highest quality hall effect meter you can purchase but it is a fair value.
,,, are you an electrical engineer or just kind of some guy?
Sizing wire on any device is based on total load current
Thanks for all the great info you've provided us. This leads me to a question on sizing if I could ask for your guidance. Currently, in a van; 2016 Transit with the stock alternator and single battery. I just upgraded my 'cartridge-hungry' ink-jet printer (400 watt inverter) to a Brother laser printer model HL-l2395DW only to learn the inverter demand is much, much greater to drive the 9.2 amps I observed on the rear panel. From what I have derived from such videos/education, I will need at a minimum a 1500 watt pure sine. I have my eye on a Power Tech-On, which by the way, looks identical to the Aims PWRI 150024S. It is also sold by Home-Depot under yet another name but at $209, price/performance looks attractive, that is, for what I know at least. This being the case, what is your opinion for such a unit based on my needs. Eventually I plan to add a microwave to the vehicle too so if you can make a recommendation (small/minimal) for such a (dial) unit I'd greatly appreciate it. So, is 1500 watts adequate for this printer? Of course the vehicle would be running at anytime the printer would be operating, which leads to another question. Ford makes a dual-battery option available. Would there be any benefit to adding this second identical battery to the configuration? Eventually an AGM/solar panel set-up would be added as is the plan at a later date. Most immediate is to simply get this printer up and running. Your opinion of this 1500 watt unit? 1500 watt adequate? Fuse advise and size? I recall your video of the commercial unit having superior pure-sine capability. Doing what I'm doing here, is it advantages for me to take that leap and obtain (such a large) unit initially? Last thing I want to do is under-purchase from ignorance up front of course. Any/all input you can provide would be greatly appreciated. -Doug
In order to know whether or not the inverter will provide enough power, you need to look at the power rating for the devices that you intend to plug into it.
So, you'd look at the printer, and see how many watts of power it uses. Do the same for any other appliances you intend to use. If you want to use them at the same time, then add these values together. As long as that total is below the power rating for your inverter, technically, you should be fine.
So, if the printer draws 200 watts, and you're also using a lamp, that happens to draw 40 watts, then you'd need an inverter that, at least, has a rating of 240 watts.
It's always a good idea to make sure your inverter has more than the total; and not equal to it. This will prevent any issues of, potentially, not having enough power. After all, the inverter is a machine, and will never be 100% efficient.
As for the dual battery. I'm assuming this dual battery system is just connecting two batteries in parallel. If this is the case, then using an extra battery will allow you to run things longer, with the truck turned off. This is because, by having two batteries, you're increasing your overall energy storage capacity. So, if you happened to be running the inverter, while the truck is turned off, it'd take longer to drain the batteries than if you had a single battery. Of course, it would also take longer to fully charge both batteries.
When it comes to battery storage capacity, just think of it like a bucket. If you have a bigger bucket, it holds more water. So, if you were dumping water, from the bucket, at a constant rate, it'd take longer to empty the bucket, if the bucket is bigger. In the same way, it takes a longer period of time to fill that bucket.
The same is true with battery storage capacity. The higher the capacity, the longer it takes to drain that battery.
If you'll always be running the truck, when you use the inverter, then I don't see much of a benefit to having the extra battery. Although, if it's just hooked in parallel, having the extra battery wouldn't hurt.