Stupid algorithm. I watch production channels all the time for years, and this is the first time you've shown up in my feed. No wonder my channel simply will not grow lol Anyway I just came to say that I've been instinctively doing just what you say: mixing at 70dB and mastering at 83, and I didn't even know it until I paused the video, downloaded an spl meter for my phone, and went to check. Thanks for the content, new sub here. Maybe come give my newer stuff a critique sometime? I always ask professionals to lend me their ear. Be the first to respond? Have a good one!
Great to have you tuning in Craig! Glad the algorithm brought us together :-) If you’re looking for feedback on your music, we have a members community option here on RUclips where we have regular listening sessions to talk about how we can improve our mixes and productions. Would love to have you join if it’s useful! -Justin
I listen from 80dB to 85dB for critical reference in initial tracking, mixing and mastering. I use extremes to test tracks and mixes, or to drive a performance from the artist. Breaks are important, sometimes overnight. I also test program material in consumer playback devices at levels that my family members set, getting feedback from them as well. People say my recordings compete with professionals, so it works for me.
As an amateur i realized that when mixing/mastering the level plays a big role, but i wasn't sure how it works and how you deal with the different sound. So this tutorial ist just what i needed, thank you for sharing this with us!
Thank you Justin for all the great content. I'm a bit of a one man band experiencing this stuff trial and error and your useful observations are right on.
I have been making multiple presets in the RME (soft mixer) with different fixed levels instead of using an external speaker monitoring unit in one of my studio rooms and tested out some good fixed referencing SPLs (levels) for mixing & mastering I have been doing lately. Took a while to get used to not working with an external speaker/monitor control unit (with a volume knob) and changing the levels via the software window instead. ;-) I mostly listen to multiple volumes during production, mixing & mastering. Listening at a very low volume sometimes makes it easier to hear if something is way too loud compared to everything else, IMHO. If I listen too loud too long the compressors in my ears kicks in and it is harder to make good decisions during mixing.
Found you through your videos with plugin alliance as I recently started using more brainworx plugins. Keep up the great content. As a producer who has been shifting more into the engineering side lately I’ve learned a lot
Thanks Justin. Very valuable as always. I tend to mix at lower levels like 60 dB but to check things I use a second louder level. My room is treated on basic level combined with Sonarworks. When doing the initial static mix I listen on headphones and an Avantone placed in the middle of the listening position. Moving forward in the mixing procedure I tend to do a lot of reference listening in mono as well as stereo. Low end always hard to get right but isolating low end at 200 hz and compare with the reference usually makes it good enough. Thanks again Justin, always learn SO much from you in this podcast:)
I mix at a level where I can still hear the keyboard of my DAW... I am in what's considered an untreated room, got used to how it sounds. Mastering I do so I can't hear the keyboard anymore.... but I love this video and the great information you give us. I will purchase an SPL meter cuz I really wanna know what level I am actually mixing at generally.. :-)
Justin awesome advise and the only thing to add about switching monitors from small to large in the mastering, mixing and tracking process, switching to a descent set of Headphones can have an incredible ability to catch something a little earlier. I have used DT 770's for over 30 years. Having been employed as the technical support in World Class Studios I have found bad or noisy switches, potentiometers and sliders that Engineers and Producers could not find with much more expensive Headphones. A great set of Headphones go a long way. I chose DT 770's not for recording but for Live Engineering but when I used them in the Studio they were amazing at revealing suttle problems that monitors did not expose. Justin what are your favorite phones for tracking, mixing and mastering. I am sure there are other great headphones and personal opinions of this tool. Great contain. Cheers from Nova Scotia.
My favorite headphones are the Audeze LCD-4, but they are $4,000. My second favorite headphones are the Focal Clear Pro, but they are $1500. My third favorite are the Blue Mix-Fi or Lola. They are $300-ish and are AWESOME for double checking low end in compromised environments. If you want something with a little more top end, Blue's Ella planar magnetic headphones are great as well but I think discontinued, and without quite as much low end as the Mix-Fi/Lola models. Headphones choices are very personal though! What works for me might not be what's best for you. Hope that helps! -Justin
Another reason to mix at lower volumes is compression. At some point, your sound system is going to start compressing the sound. At some point, your ears are going to start compressing the sound. If you are mixing at higher levels, you are making mixing decisions based on these "false" compressions, and your mix will not fit together as well at lower volumes. I have heard otherwise solid professional mixes that completely fell apart at "background" levels, and I think it was precisely for this reason.
Hi Justin - that was a great video! I've been thinking about this quite a bit recently, especially wondering how loud 'professionals' mix. By pure luck it appears that I mostly do something reasonable; I tend to mix at broadly 'conversational' levels and have occasional forays into "louder" when I want to check the detail of bass and kick tracks. However, I don't know what SPL I'm at and would have had no idea without watching your video...I will look into maybe getting an app now. Thanks for all the great content you continue to share - I really like your channel 👍
I'll post this before watching. Typically, 75 db plus or minus is it for me. 85 db would eventually blow my ears out! However, I will crank it up when it's time.
I'am always monitoring at 2 distinct levels, even 3 depending on what phase of the mix I'm in... A bit of headphones control can help to compare, specially if you don't have multiple A/B monitors. Those listening Levels ALSO WORKS on headphones so think about it ! +++ for the musicians just OUT of the Recording Room "trick" it always works IF your pimary choices were good and your listening feels well balanced immediately, so when they get out of the studio and enter in the Mixing Room they don't feel lost and yes : "IT SOUNDS AWESOME ! " is VERY motivating for the rest of the session and the next takes... You have 1 mn to mix it better if you monitor back through your sequencer like I do, before they enter the room. Generally reproducing the same levels and PANS of the analog console I'm using to record AND that I always direct monitor on : simply copying back my analog settings on the ProTools console (levels, Pans) Helps ! Cheers !
3 for me I start around 65-70 It’s where i start. Once i get it sounding good i reference really high (around 80-85 and then lastly whisper quiet. I find at the final quiet you start to hear more little dynamics and where they fit in the mix. From ther back to loud volume to reference and I’m using about one or two quick revisions away.
for my headphones i crank the volume to the max, and start mixing it from there the volume and pan section, i mix it as low volume as possible, and master it in a louder volume because i like the effect it causes in my tracks that approach changes depending of the song but that's my go to listening method i improved dramatically since i started doing it because i tend to mix stuff Really loud (i naturally get it at 10db+) so that tricks me to mix naturally and be creative without ruining the song edit: i use headphones
What I have learned is that the volume actually can make a huge difference, since sound pressure engages the resonances and modes of a room increasingly....That´s at least what I was told...Therefore, listening at low volume can be an advantage in a poorly treated room. It makes sense to me, but would be interesting to hear from an acoustician.
I most often hear them say that it doesn't affect the resonances of the room at all, maybe bass modes but what help is decreasing the signal to noise ratio, so get more of the direct signal of the speakers and less of the room, in simple terms get closer to the speakers.
Thank you for the large dose of reality, I think I’m going to do a mixing course on how to do everything wrong, and then wonder why it all sounds like donk
I have just made a mix with a new pair of headphones, the artist was excited when listening with his headphones but found out that when he listened through his loudspeaker system, the drums were too loud! Now I am scared to not hit the spot ok the drums because I don't have acces to good loudspeakers soon! Thank you for all these videos.
This is an issue I’ve also been dealing with. The solution has been using a combination of reference songs (most helpful), a spectrum analyzer like Span and a virtual mix room.
@@moerahman6749 thanks for the advice, I had the analyzer in mind but the virtual mix room is something that I will definitely look into. Which one You recommend?
@@migueladriancaballero6061 I’ve personally had good results with Abbey Road Studio 3, though there are other options. I would also check my mixes on various platforms, including a cheap CD boom box for example and TV speakers for midrange frequencies.
80-85dB SPL sounds like a good mixing/mastering level. During the years I teched sound at my local Assemblies of God, the worship avg. SPL was 95-100, even if for only 30-40 minutes of worship songs. I protested, even as sound tech, but their advice was: get ear muffs!
I am currently in the process of learning a mix workflow I can repeat and documenting it here on RUclips, i am using mostly headphones for the mixing part because of my location, but I do have a pair of HS7s as well and a fairly treated room, what would be some best practices for using what has been stated here on headphones in terms of loudness for mixing and mastering?
Thanks, Justin. I live in a sheltered accommodation so I can't wind up the volume too high. Supplement with good headphones, sonarworks, a calibrated mic to check the room, and a bit of visual feedback from DAW tools have let me know my environment. The subs don't matter as I don't really need them for synthwave and orchestral stuff. Is it mixing on crappy monitors that create the EQ smile shape?
"A" weighting is kind of the default for music applications, so I'd generally assume A weighting unless the person specifies otherwise. Hope that makes sense! -Justin
for Low End monitoring on Headphones, I would recommend something like the DT-770- DT-990 from Beyer dynamics, they are awesome for making decisions hertz by hertz in the low end... now those headphones have a DIP in the mid range that I find pretty much annoying and that always lead to bad decisions in the mix (what I've noticed regarding my students results) So I would recommend for the rest of the mix the M-50X from Audiotechnica that some would consider too much precise on the high frequency range but I find pretty much usefull and incredibly accurate specially when you're monitoring headphones at low levels ;p
Listening at 85+ db is not only fatiguing or painful, it can cause permanent damage after only 15 minutes of listening, unperceivable at first but little by little the damage is accumulative and irreversible.
@@NeilMacLeodMusic That's what I said. 85 dB for only 15 minutes is the safety threshold. If it's louder OR longer, then it becomes more likely that there will be damage.
During an internship in a movie studio, I noticed that the sound designers monitoring levels were between 79-82 dB SPL while mixers were always listening at 85dBspl, I think it's also how theaters are calibrated
Yes, mixing for film is a different ballgame! But it’s important to note that in film, 85 dB SPL isn’t an average target in the same way as it might be for music, as films tend to be more dynamic. Most of the movie won’t be at 85 dB at all when they are listening. Very long sections of it are bound to be much quieter. (Don’t get me wrong, the average level in major movies has drifted upward, but the average level in music releases has drifted upward even more.) Hope that makes sense! Please let me know if it’s in line with what you saw at your studio. Thanks, Justin
@@SonicScoop oh thank for you response ! yes you're right, but I think with dolby atmos music, you also have more dynamic and the lufs targets are lower. In the studio, we were setting the speakers at 85 dB SPL for a -20dbfs sine wave, but I didn't measured the average level when the film was playing, -85 dBspl was just to have a refernce so everyone plays at the same level in theaters and stuff, and mixers for movie don't have a target lufs level to respect, they do all by ear. Then, obviously, you need to respect certain levels when downmixing for TV and Netflix...
I always put my headroom at around 95 dB where the F-M curve is flattest. I would think that most loud speakers are designed to have sensitivities at around 95 dB.
Stupid algorithm. I watch production channels all the time for years, and this is the first time you've shown up in my feed. No wonder my channel simply will not grow lol Anyway I just came to say that I've been instinctively doing just what you say: mixing at 70dB and mastering at 83, and I didn't even know it until I paused the video, downloaded an spl meter for my phone, and went to check. Thanks for the content, new sub here. Maybe come give my newer stuff a critique sometime? I always ask professionals to lend me their ear. Be the first to respond? Have a good one!
Great to have you tuning in Craig! Glad the algorithm brought us together :-)
If you’re looking for feedback on your music, we have a members community option here on RUclips where we have regular listening sessions to talk about how we can improve our mixes and productions. Would love to have you join if it’s useful!
-Justin
This is quickly becoming my favorite RUclips channel. Great content
I listen from 80dB to 85dB for critical reference in initial tracking, mixing and mastering. I use extremes to test tracks and mixes, or to drive a performance from the artist. Breaks are important, sometimes overnight. I also test program material in consumer playback devices at levels that my family members set, getting feedback from them as well. People say my recordings compete with professionals, so it works for me.
As an amateur i realized that when mixing/mastering the level plays a big role, but i wasn't sure how it works and how you deal with the different sound. So this tutorial ist just what i needed, thank you for sharing this with us!
Thank you Justin for all the great content. I'm a bit of a one man band experiencing this stuff trial and error and your useful observations are right on.
nice thought we would not have a pod this week
I have been making multiple presets in the RME (soft mixer) with different fixed levels instead of using an external speaker monitoring unit in one of my studio rooms and tested out some good fixed referencing SPLs (levels) for mixing & mastering I have been doing lately. Took a while to get used to not working with an external speaker/monitor control unit (with a volume knob) and changing the levels via the software window instead. ;-) I mostly listen to multiple volumes during production, mixing & mastering. Listening at a very low volume sometimes makes it easier to hear if something is way too loud compared to everything else, IMHO. If I listen too loud too long the compressors in my ears kicks in and it is harder to make good decisions during mixing.
Found you through your videos with plugin alliance as I recently started using more brainworx plugins. Keep up the great content. As a producer who has been shifting more into the engineering side lately I’ve learned a lot
Thanks for the great information, presentation method and openness to "theme and variation" as there are so many factors to making music sound good.
Thanks Justin. Very valuable as always. I tend to mix at lower levels like 60 dB but to check things I use a second louder level. My room is treated on basic level combined with Sonarworks. When doing the initial static mix I listen on headphones and an Avantone placed in the middle of the listening position. Moving forward in the mixing procedure I tend to do a lot of reference listening in mono as well as stereo. Low end always hard to get right but isolating low end at 200 hz and compare with the reference usually makes it good enough. Thanks again Justin, always learn SO much from you in this podcast:)
Awesome to hear, thanks Magnus!
-Justin
Awesome breakdown thanks man!!
Wow!!!!
I can't thank you enough s2
this episode was super useful and clarifying for me indeed
now i have a solid perspective on the subject
your mic sounds so good
Everything gets mixed to the frequency of my fan!! :)
I mix at a level where I can still hear the keyboard of my DAW... I am in what's considered an untreated room, got used to how it sounds. Mastering I do so I can't hear the keyboard anymore.... but I love this video and the great information you give us. I will purchase an SPL meter cuz I really wanna know what level I am actually mixing at generally.. :-)
You are a god.Thank you for all this golden advice!
Justin, during the mastering process, are you listening at 80dB only during the loudest part of the composition to make your adjustments?
Justin awesome advise and the only thing to add about switching monitors from small to large in the mastering, mixing and tracking process, switching to a descent set of Headphones can have an incredible ability to catch something a little earlier. I have used DT 770's for over 30 years. Having been employed as the technical support in World Class Studios I have found bad or noisy switches, potentiometers and sliders that Engineers and Producers could not find with much more expensive Headphones. A great set of Headphones go a long way. I chose DT 770's not for recording but for Live Engineering but when I used them in the Studio they were amazing at revealing suttle problems that monitors did not expose. Justin what are your favorite phones for tracking, mixing and mastering. I am sure there are other great headphones and personal opinions of this tool. Great contain. Cheers from Nova Scotia.
My favorite headphones are the Audeze LCD-4, but they are $4,000.
My second favorite headphones are the Focal Clear Pro, but they are $1500.
My third favorite are the Blue Mix-Fi or Lola. They are $300-ish and are AWESOME for double checking low end in compromised environments.
If you want something with a little more top end, Blue's Ella planar magnetic headphones are great as well but I think discontinued, and without quite as much low end as the Mix-Fi/Lola models.
Headphones choices are very personal though! What works for me might not be what's best for you.
Hope that helps!
-Justin
Another reason to mix at lower volumes is compression. At some point, your sound system is going to start compressing the sound. At some point, your ears are going to start compressing the sound. If you are mixing at higher levels, you are making mixing decisions based on these "false" compressions, and your mix will not fit together as well at lower volumes. I have heard otherwise solid professional mixes that completely fell apart at "background" levels, and I think it was precisely for this reason.
Hi Justin - that was a great video!
I've been thinking about this quite a bit recently, especially wondering how loud 'professionals' mix. By pure luck it appears that I mostly do something reasonable; I tend to mix at broadly 'conversational' levels and have occasional forays into "louder" when I want to check the detail of bass and kick tracks. However, I don't know what SPL I'm at and would have had no idea without watching your video...I will look into maybe getting an app now. Thanks for all the great content you continue to share - I really like your channel
👍
As always, great content 👍🏼
Ideal level, is a level that enables one to have a conversation still
Well explained dude.
I'll post this before watching. Typically, 75 db plus or minus is it for me. 85 db would eventually blow my ears out! However, I will crank it up when it's time.
I'am always monitoring at 2 distinct levels, even 3 depending on what phase of the mix I'm in... A bit of headphones control can help to compare, specially if you don't have multiple A/B monitors. Those listening Levels ALSO WORKS on headphones so think about it !
+++ for the musicians just OUT of the Recording Room "trick" it always works IF your pimary choices were good and your listening feels well balanced immediately, so when they get out of the studio and enter in the Mixing Room they don't feel lost and yes : "IT SOUNDS AWESOME ! " is VERY motivating for the rest of the session and the next takes... You have 1 mn to mix it better if you monitor back through your sequencer like I do, before they enter the room. Generally reproducing the same levels and PANS of the analog console I'm using to record AND that I always direct monitor on : simply copying back my analog settings on the ProTools console (levels, Pans) Helps !
Cheers !
3 for me
I start around 65-70
It’s where i start.
Once i get it sounding good i reference really high (around 80-85 and then lastly whisper quiet. I find at the final quiet you start to hear more little dynamics and where they fit in the mix.
From ther back to loud volume to reference and I’m using about one or two quick revisions away.
for my headphones i crank the volume to the max, and start mixing it from there the volume and pan section, i mix it as low volume as possible, and master it in a louder volume because i like the effect it causes in my tracks
that approach changes depending of the song but that's my go to listening method
i improved dramatically since i started doing it because i tend to mix stuff Really loud (i naturally get it at 10db+) so that tricks me to mix naturally and be creative without ruining the song
edit: i use headphones
Awesome
What I have learned is that the volume actually can make a huge difference, since sound pressure engages the resonances and modes of a room increasingly....That´s at least what I was told...Therefore, listening at low volume can be an advantage in a poorly treated room. It makes sense to me, but would be interesting to hear from an acoustician.
I most often hear them say that it doesn't affect the resonances of the room at all, maybe bass modes but what help is decreasing the signal to noise ratio, so get more of the direct signal of the speakers and less of the room, in simple terms get closer to the speakers.
I don't think a room has nonlinear effects like that per se. I think it's just Fletcher Munson.
Which SPL meter for Android do you recommend? Also, which SPL hardware meter do you recommend?
Thank you for the large dose of reality, I think I’m going to do a mixing course on how to do everything wrong, and then wonder why it all sounds like donk
I have just made a mix with a new pair of headphones, the artist was excited when listening with his headphones but found out that when he listened through his loudspeaker system, the drums were too loud! Now I am scared to not hit the spot ok the drums because I don't have acces to good loudspeakers soon!
Thank you for all these videos.
This is an issue I’ve also been dealing with. The solution has been using a combination of reference songs (most helpful), a spectrum analyzer like Span and a virtual mix room.
@@moerahman6749 thanks for the advice, I had the analyzer in mind but the virtual mix room is something that I will definitely look into. Which one You recommend?
@@migueladriancaballero6061 I’ve personally had good results with Abbey Road Studio 3, though there are other options. I would also check my mixes on various platforms, including a cheap CD boom box for example and TV speakers for midrange frequencies.
@@moerahman6749 Also you can gry 360space vst.
@@kudus9235 Nice! Thank you.
80-85dB SPL sounds like a good mixing/mastering level. During the years I teched sound at my local Assemblies of God, the worship avg. SPL was 95-100, even if for only 30-40 minutes of worship songs. I protested, even as sound tech, but their advice was: get ear muffs!
@@GladeSwope Local covers of what you would hear on K-Love fm.
I am currently in the process of learning a mix workflow I can repeat and documenting it here on RUclips, i am using mostly headphones for the mixing part because of my location, but I do have a pair of HS7s as well and a fairly treated room, what would be some best practices for using what has been stated here on headphones in terms of loudness for mixing and mastering?
I turn my monitors somewhat low so I don't get too much reverberation
WHICH IS THE NUMBER? I CANT WATCH IT 30 MINUTES...IF SOMEONE CAN HELP ME IT WOULD BE GREAT
Thanks, Justin. I live in a sheltered accommodation so I can't wind up the volume too high. Supplement with good headphones, sonarworks, a calibrated mic to check the room, and a bit of visual feedback from DAW tools have let me know my environment. The subs don't matter as I don't really need them for synthwave and orchestral stuff.
Is it mixing on crappy monitors that create the EQ smile shape?
you talkin C weighted or A weighted?
"A" weighting is kind of the default for music applications, so I'd generally assume A weighting unless the person specifies otherwise. Hope that makes sense!
-Justin
how can you check spl when working with headphones?
The Sensaphonics dB Check Pro is the only device I know of that does this, but it isn't cheap unfortunately.
-Justin
Thanks! What are the headphones that you could recomend for mixing low end?
Cheers
for Low End monitoring on Headphones, I would recommend something like the DT-770- DT-990 from Beyer dynamics, they are awesome for making decisions hertz by hertz in the low end... now those headphones have a DIP in the mid range that I find pretty much annoying and that always lead to bad decisions in the mix (what I've noticed regarding my students results) So I would recommend for the rest of the mix the M-50X from Audiotechnica that some would consider too much precise on the high frequency range but I find pretty much usefull and incredibly accurate specially when you're monitoring headphones at low levels ;p
Listening at 85+ db is not only fatiguing or painful, it can cause permanent damage after only 15 minutes of listening, unperceivable at first but little by little the damage is accumulative and irreversible.
Not true. 85dB is safe for 15 minutes by all standards I've ever researched. It's all about exposure time.
@@NeilMacLeodMusic That's what I said.
85 dB for only 15 minutes is the safety threshold. If it's louder OR longer, then it becomes more likely that there will be damage.
During an internship in a movie studio, I noticed that the sound designers monitoring levels were between 79-82 dB SPL while mixers were always listening at 85dBspl, I think it's also how theaters are calibrated
Yes, mixing for film is a different ballgame! But it’s important to note that in film, 85 dB SPL isn’t an average target in the same way as it might be for music, as films tend to be more dynamic. Most of the movie won’t be at 85 dB at all when they are listening. Very long sections of it are bound to be much quieter.
(Don’t get me wrong, the average level in major movies has drifted upward, but the average level in music releases has drifted upward even more.)
Hope that makes sense! Please let me know if it’s in line with what you saw at your studio.
Thanks,
Justin
@@SonicScoop oh thank for you response ! yes you're right, but I think with dolby atmos music, you also have more dynamic and the lufs targets are lower.
In the studio, we were setting the speakers at 85 dB SPL for a -20dbfs sine wave, but I didn't measured the average level when the film was playing, -85 dBspl was just to have a refernce so everyone plays at the same level in theaters and stuff, and mixers for movie don't have a target lufs level to respect, they do all by ear. Then, obviously, you need to respect certain levels when downmixing for TV and Netflix...
I always put my headroom at around 95 dB where the F-M curve is flattest. I would think that most loud speakers are designed to have sensitivities at around 95 dB.
That s way too loud, and very bad for your ears
@@gibson2623 People play music loud, due diligence means you should at least listen to the parts that need attention.
@@maschoff69 95 dB causes damage tou your ears after some exposure to it. It s on the red line of the scale. That s all.
That's way too loud.
@@EdwinDekker71 way way way...yup. The ideal level is the level that enables you to still hold a conversation. Loud will lie to our ears