The REAL value of "Swiss Made" in watchmaking
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- Information nobody else will share with you, not in books nor video’s.
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Live Watchmaking. Look through the eyes of a watchmaker and share the passion of Kalle Slaap from team Chronoglide, Vintage Watch repair specialists near Amsterdam.
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Wow. The things we learn on RUclips. Thanks, Kalle.
Glashütte created recently a German watch made standard referring to quality made locally. It's a bit more transparent than the Swiss Made standard.
I saw that presentation....id rather buy a Glashutte than a rolex.....any day.
Always wonderful to have a peek behind the 'curtain'. We all owe you a big THANK YOU 😊
Thank you for your as usual clear information and sharing with us your sincere vision as a great watchmaker. ❤
I knew "swiss made" was a huge scam the same way "in house" is just thrown around but this is so sleezy.thanks for bringing this to light
Love your knowledge..
Thanks. I've heard this generally before, but your recounting journeys to Switzerland, and your details and interest, really set this situation sharp in my mind.
Glad to not be part of the crowds on the roads every day between France and Switzerland.
Now in Saint Petersburg and the watches we doing produce are not swissmadeinchina but russian though.
Thanks for your videos. Keep up the great work, with passion and sharing your knowledge.
This is why go for Made in Japan
Exactly 👍
Totally agree with you....after working on numerous "Swiss made" watches I have found a big difference in a 1950s watch to a 1970s watch . The quality has just gone.
I think most of us suspected that the notion of 'Swissness' as applied to watches is largely an illusion, but this exposes just how much sleight of hand is involved.
…which is basically Swiss Technology Products (STP) business model in a nutshell. Buy in Chinese movements, inspect and adjust them in Lugano, sell them as Swiss. By the way I have an STP 1-11 movement in a ‘Swiss’ watch and it is excellent.
I have a Swiss Rotary watch with a Schild movement ftom the 196Os or 70s
Just had a new acrylic crystal fitted and a clean,lubricate adjust to the movement.
It was done by a lady watch mender near me.
It's my favourite watch .
£130 well spent.
So all my vintage Swiss made watches are now devalued in my opinion. I will probably buy even older Swiss made watches now. I love the 70s era look but will now be looking at the 50s watches. Thanks Kalle
Given the amount of Chinese work done on ‘Swiss Made’ watches, what do you think about the rise of the Chinese watch industry? Are they taking advantage of the learning? Do they now produce high quality watches that match anything they do for Switzerland?
Just look Cronos 1000m Dive watch or Audaz Abys Diver which is 100% made in China. They are cheap but if they raise price by couple of hundreds per unit that is to 1000$ you can actually buy watch with Japanese movement and good case quality. What can you wish for more.Audaz Abys diver needs only details to improve to be great buy to 800$.
Very interesting,thank you Kalle.
Shocking! Thanks Kalle!
Very well done and informative thank you.
Worth Reading, Fleury V Richemont and the current case of Cousins, related to this topic.
Thank you so much for this report! I would be sick to spend a lot of money on a Swiss watch and to learn that the movement was not made in Switzerland. One must research before buying and also learn which brands are outsourcing. Wonderful video!
Very enlightening. Thank you.
Great information, thanks for that. Love your videos
Thanks for your interesting and informative stream, as always. Cheers
I think it's a bit optimistic to think Switzerland made the best watches in 1930 - old prestige brands were making a few really good quality watches, meanwhile, American companies such as Hamilton mass produced chronometers, the 987 and 982 calibres.. Hamilton and Elgin did work with alloys etc.. then look back to a swiss Zenith cal 106. By the 50's the swiss were top.
Speaking of foreign workers in Switzerland, I heard a lot of workers are also from the less glamorous parts of Europe than, say France, as the wages are low.
The Swiss used to make a lot of garbage movements you can still catch on eBay with one jewel, no jewels. The high end brands made quality watches but the mass market stuff left a lot to be desired.
Great show by the way.......
Heel interessant! Bedankt voor de info.
Nice catch on that "60%" cost threshold subterfuge!
Thank you for the information
Im still trying to get my head around the best way to support watchmakers when buying a watch. Some of our favourite brands seem to have some very unscrupulous practices.
Hi just ask your favorite watchmaker he ma have many not picked up great buys!
STOWA German micro brand, nice watches using adapted ETA movements. Made in Germany,
Hi Kalle,
Good afternoon my dear friend,
I agree with 💯
Swiss Scam.
As always you are most enlightened .
Love from Staffordshire
England
Well I’m really glad now that I went for a $1,000 Hamilton instead of an $8,000 Omega. Had no idea it was that bad. Glad I haven’t got caught up the the watch collecting fever like so many have. Seems vintage is the way to go if you have the talent near you to service it properly. Thanks for the lesson. 👏
Slow down mate, a Gucci watch is not an Omega watch. A brand new Omega is generally a very very high quality product. Both Hamilton and Omega use modified versions of Eta movements but in my opinion the Omega's are superior both in the technical and in the aestetic compartment. It is true than "swiss made" means nothing but there are other certificates like the COSC chronometer that are more focused on the actual quality of the watch. Anyway i don't want to let you down, a 1000 dollar hamilton is probabily an exellent watch, just sold a Jazzmaster for 990 the other day (I'm a watchmaker with a small shop that still wears a digital Casio).
Cheers :)
Omega is worth the price though. You’re getting METAS and COSC certified watches. Depending on the watch you get a co-axial escapement and incredible finishing on the movement. Hamilton is great, but they aren’t in the same league as Omega.
Alot microbrands buy chinese parts and use chinese clone movements. Sometimes they hire a assembly building in switzerland where they do quality controll, casing and regulation etc.. And tada, a "swiss made" watch...
My favorite band made a watch this year. It’s been 12 years in the making and it’s too expensive for me. But they have «swiss made» on the dial. I think the case and dial is Norwegian while the movement is a mass produced swiss movement.
I have both Swiss and Chinese watches - the level of the case finishes seems to even out at about $250US on the Chinese watches - very close to my Swiss brands. The question is, do Swiss brands have their cases made in other countries?
Take it as a given. They produce them in Asia (not necessary China).
Yes, interesting stuff Kalle...
Any update on your Chronoglide watch...
I, am waiting for some tooling to arrive on Tuesday, so I can continue with the proto type of my watch!
My watch is proving to be tricky...
One of the problems I will be facing is where, and how I position the dial feet!
Then, somehow fixing them into the dial face it's self...
I have to add, I am not a watch maker, and this is my 1st attempt at making a nice watch...
I have no experience with watch making at all... Most watch makers I have contacted in the UK have just laughed at me!!!
Then they say you won't achieve it...
However, I really want to try it...
Frank...
Ahh Ive been wondering why movements would declare they are unadjusted since its not a good thing. Thanks foe the info
Not sure if you got this right: for Champagne to be called Champagne, it has to come from that specific region. For Gouda to be called Gouda, it has to be from that place… you get the point: apellation of origin is not linked to the quality of a product, but to the region where is made, and in some rare cases, to their components, so the Swiss made denomination for watches goes a little tiny bit beyond most of the apellations of origin; there are people making Gouda cheese (working in the factories) that are from Surinam; the vineyards from the Champagne region might use german fertilizer; steel used in swiss watches come from God knows where 😊
The trick is the cost of labour in Switzerland , this is a high proportion of the 60%. That of course is why they out-source parts in the first place.
Very nice video, thank you. The Swiss watch industry benefited a lot from the French watch industry, pre-WWII. Many people went to the "École horlogère" in the French Jura or Franche-Comté and are in high demand in Switzerland after the collapse of the French watch industry (which is now again regaining colors, with brands like Akrone, Pequignet or even LIP). There are still watches (and very good ones) mainly manufactured in Switzerland, but the "Swiss made" is clearly misleading. It is the same thing with the Swiss chocolate industry where legislation is very blurred. But I imagine it is the same in many countries with their top products: legislation is vague enough to accommodate some companies.
Agree!!
I have an old Gruen SS 510, beautifully made in France - the hairspring is even blued! Never seen that on a regular Swiss watch. They are experts at marketing like you say and know how to appeal to nostalgia.
Think your case is made in France. As far as I know the cal 510 is made in Switzerland (by Gruen). The hairspring is blue because of the material. No conoruma yet.
You don't need accuracy for Swiss Made when you have other categories for accuracy like Chronograph and Chronometer. You also could just look at the accuracy and stability on whatever item you're looking at. Swiss Made was always about marketing.
In terms of 'adjusting' quartz watch movements, doesn't every decent movement have a trimmer capacitor for precisely adjusting the timekeeping oscillator?
Hej från Sweden 😊
Many would say the Swiss are experts at marketing. Having demolished the US manufacture of watches somewhere around the years 50s-60s they were crushed by the Quartz Crisis. Took decades, transformed the tool watch into luxury jewelry with a price to match.
The Swiss have benefited like other developed countries by farming out the work and eventually the name brand is sold or is dissolved. The brand generally just becomes a shell of its former self, no longer actually manufactures anything. They've transformed into a marketing and distribution entity.
Swiss differ by riding heavily on its perceived reputation of quality with a ton of secrecy. And for those few brands that have the resources, they will pounce or make threats against other brands for what they feel is in their best interest.
I bought a Favre Leuba Sandow from a store in Chennai, India. It was mentioned as SWISS MADE on the dial.The movement it had was STP1-15. Within 15 days the watch stopped and I returned it to the store for replacement. I got another watch which stopped working after three days. I asked for full refund of the amount paid by me.
This is how we are fooled into thinking that SWISS MADE watches are world class. Not any more.
So the parts Swatch won't sell to us, are possibly not even made in Switzerland... The hipocrisy of Swatch is staggering.
Welcome to reality!
Could you raise the audio a little bit? Love the videos.
You have a very interesting way of getting your point across. Now, why is Rolex a charity?
TRolex, liver-pate Philippe, Audry Mars' Piglets, and the others, are genuine charities, benefiting poor Swiss families without money for work clothes or sturdy boots, that would otherwise be unemployed and homeless. Imagine these poor people exposed to the elements in thin shoes! Thanks to these companies, these families have homes, outdated but clean suits and dresses custom made by other poor un-employables, and are safely kept away from the masses in remote asylums, hidden in forests or mountain valleys, behind high walls and large green-strips guarded by men with trained dogs.
Yes, the whole of the watch industry is bent.
(and that is even before you get to their tax affairs...)
A video about rolex ,their finantial history and charitable status would be interesting viewing
Thanks
Very good informations!! By the way, does anybody know why any Geneva brands write Genève (France) and then change to Geneva (English) in their watch 's cases? Any specific rule?? Thanks!!
French is the language of Swiss watch making because of the region in which they are based but English is the language of Swiss watch marketing.
I would love to know which Swiss makers have higher standards than that. I'd imagine any swiss watch under 10k USD is more likely to use 3rd world labor.
Moser - and they also make fool of these regulations themselves too. Awesome brand.
Dumbing people down to single task roles is a classic strategy to keep the slaves in line. It may have transitioned this way also to slowly integrate automation without rebellion. It’s just his job… it will never be my job.
Kalle, were the watchmakers in Switzerland only trained in one thing for their job? Or were some total watchmakers, that only did one job because that is what their job required?
Malle the Swiss watch need a good dressing down they are pleased to sell there expensive watches all brands but when you need parts from reputable uk supply ie Cousins unavailable.!?Swatch needs kick in a”
Go Grand Seiko
In that case, what would you say about the quality of real Chinese watches like Agelocer? Are they doing a good job? I mean quality wise. The production is also in far east but they look astonishing nowadays
My rule of thumb is:
“don’t believe in Swiss fairytales”
I’ll take a Japanese watch over a “Swiss” one any day of the week.
ohh very enlightening, when you hear it like this, the swiss made kind of seems like a big joke 😁
"Watches are a confidence trick invented by the Swiss!" (Chiun, Master of Sinanju; from the movie Remo Williams, 1985)
I am very happy with my Japanese design calibres, made in Malaysia and China, cased into made in China watches! They are of very high quality and cost very little. AND they are accurate enough, and after I regulated them, they are within COSC, all for 1/30th or even just 1/200th of the price.
That high price goes mainly to the bosses at the top, so the Swiss can take their con-tricks, and go where the sun does not shine! MOST shameful is, that these robbers charge 100 thousand dollars for a watch, that was designed 50 or 60 years ago, in one case like a toy tank in 1918, and they pay their factory workers making them ... not even enough money to pay rent in expensive Switzerland! Seriously, have you looked up wages for Swiss watch factory workers?
But what about all those watches produced by the Ssims? I saw a lot of those...
I think COSC standard says something similar. The most important test is "is it Swiss?" Which is totally lame and eliminates any foreign competition from even being considered. Then what importance does the standard have? Nothing.
How do I become,a member.?
Press the 'Join' button
6:59 if i dismantle a broken ST19 chronograph to repair it : could be a "french made" one according to swiss rules 🤣
Way of the world today. Cash is king...
I know this channel discusses mechanical watches...but since I discovered Citizen Promaster watches never really thought bying again a mechanical watch.😂
Not like you can afford a Swiss or German manually made mechanical watch anyways.
Honestly, except Seiko, there is no any competitions with Swiss watch industry.
Que?
Very interesting! Does ETA manufacture all movements in China? These days I bought an ETA movement and I was suspicious of it. Because Chinese ST movements are so close in quality of entry level ETA. I'm really disappointed. It should be a global crime to say: Swiss Made if it is not made in that country! This should be international law. Are Longines movements a scam too?
You know your down a slippery path the guys in watch heaven and the have a long memory🤐 I am a watch fixer I clean ,oil , regulate and sometimes repair no flames or titles just 26 years at the bench and let the industry go there underhanded , greedy , dishonest way🤗
Thanks Kalle. It does come across as a big scam
Welcome to the "Marketing world" .Kalle, that is why you are the top watchmaker streamer. You have such a manner to transfer not only knowledge, but so much informations so valuable. Thank you!
I like Chinese made and assembled watches. That is all I wear. I cant afford to wear Swiss watches.
I've got a Swatch that (allegedly) was never touched by human hands. All built by robots, they say.
That could be actually made in Switzerland, by robots of course :)
Being Swiss Robots makes it fine. 🤫
It's always the same, the customer always gets scammed. you think you buy a good quality product that is worth the money and if you look behind the curtain, 90% is bullshit.
As long as ppl still spend thousands of dollars on Rolex, and other very expensive "swissmade" watches, this scam will still carry on.
As much as I’m shocked in reality we shouldn’t be surprised. Glad I don’t have lots of $ tied up in watches. 🤓
I discovered Citizen Promaster series. They are made in China factory but Citizen does not hide it. On the watch it say Japanese Movement.They made before Citizen in Japan but as sale went off they moved for Europe assembly in China. Quality of those watches with Eco drive is great. I have CB5000-50L Pilot Sky Chrono Radio controlled and the watch took lot's of beating and diving and still works fine after 5 years. No need for battery change solar powered. What can you wish for more and it looks great on hand.
Swiss made is a scam, it's why there are so many vintage watch collector out there, old meant quaility, new unless your paying thousands not so much!
Iv'e worn swatch quartz plastic watches and never given a darn about swiss made on the dial before I got into automatics.
My dream watch would have to be a breguet............ nothing daft but like a 5157 classique ultra thin :D, just a pure understated work of art in watch making, rather than something with swiss made (i know it has swiss guilloche main on it ....... but that can't be falked as far as I know?) on it or a travisty of taste like anything from jacobs and co.
Getting more and more disillusioned with Swiss business practices
vintage swiss watch is real swiss made ,not now
Swiss Made vs Made in China
Unreal. Silly rules and policies simply due to the mighty buck... "Time" to return to the good Ole days when things were real. No more meaning for anything in this current world.
It's the same with "Made in Germany", sadly
Really? I thought Nomos or the other Glashutte ones have in house parts and movements.
The difference is, they will tell you, what calibre they use (OK, so Swiss made, we know better...)
Several German companies do have in-house calibres actually made in Germany. They are also as pricey as Swiss top watches!
Sad, no trust, thank you
What? 07:07. The movement should be swiss though. It the first criteria, letter A. Which is explained in the second article what is considered a swiss movement. So, there's no way you can put a chinese movement in a watch and call it swiss made. You can have chinese parts though, in the movement or in the other parts. So IMO, it is not as bad as you said.
Shocking…another marketing and branding gimmick with no real value…I can’t believe it 😂
This is sad, breaks my heart.