You should try Explosive Epicenter bottom - it's absolutely insane value. It is like an extra half action every turn for the rest of the game. It makes it pretty easy to play one of your non-move bottom abilities and still move and attack. I am not surprised they decided the "only if an enemy is nearby" restriction was warranted. Regarding Boldening Blow, it's not as good as you thought: it only hits ONE enemy. The wording is weird but you can check the FAQ.
I think you're probably underrating the bottom action of Taunting Howl a bit, which is basically "set up any formation you want at initiative 11". It becomes really easy to hit cards like Tri Thrust with that and Explosive Epicenter bottom in play. I think you're probably also underrating the Banner of Doom a bit -- it's basically pinging all enemies for a damage each turn all scenario which seems like it can really add up. Really enjoy the content!
You've convinced me to give taunting howl another look, but I'm still not convinced that banner of doom is what I want a level 9 loss card to be doing for me? It requires additional attention and I'm fighting monsters that are level 4/5 when I'm at this level so the pings feel less exciting to me? Have you tried it out in practice?
I think it is just very scenario dependent. If there are high shield low health enemies like flame demons, banner of doom is crazy good. If there are tanky algox guards everywhere, just use the top and poison the whole room instead.
@@phoenicksgamingour BannerSpear had it and we had like two missions where it really shined. That said, it was still worth more than the usual loss action even if it just randomly pinged some enemies. It added up quite a bit. But yeah, compare that to Meteors T9 card... and weep.
Boldening Blow does not hit every red hex. It targets one enemy that is in any of the red hexes. If it could target 4, it would be better than a level 9 card. Still, it's really good. The bottom is arguably better than the top because it basically guarantees you'll get a full great formation off on the most enemies. Explosive Epicenter's bottom burn is incredible. I'm level 4 right now and if I had Explosive Epicenter's bottom active, I would do SO much more damage. There are many times where you just need a little tweaking of positions to optimize formations and this does the trick. It also lets you move an ally before you use a card that lets you grant movement so you can grant, move, and grant again moving people exactly where you need. It also makes it a lot easier to bring a banner from toom to room especially when you can't grant it movement on a turn.
I did put a correction about boldening blow in the description and have listened to the many comments pointing out my underevaluation of explosive epicenter! You are well supported by your fellow commenters :)
26:04 lvl 3 let them come worked for me always.. the top is amazing suppport. Aplying poison for multiple atack allies is great. the bottom i used raerly but is amazing with bone shapper. Also if its u can afford two losses u are basicly sun class from base gloomhaven.
It has been a long time since your last character guide, but it was worth the wait. I think when we start with Frosthaven I'll start with the bannerspear.
Its super fun if u can get the formations off its like beeing able to blow off ur lost aoe attacks every itteration:) a dream come true. If u play only with 2 players i suggest always using ur free summon and maybe a mele second player or bone shaper.
I think incendiary throw can be quite good when combined with the banner of strength or resolved courage or both. And our geminate loves fire being generated. Our bannerspear also started using driving inspiration to generate sun for the geminate. Attack 2 with advantage is pretty close to attack 3. And range 4 or 3 is pretty good. The banner of hope was pretty usefull in the bannerspear solo scenario. And I think a boneshaper would love having a banner of hope around. The top of at all costs is great against poison, brittle or wound. note that healing poison doesn't add health to your ally so you don't suffer damage. Single target meatgrinder is still pretty respectable. I think pinning charge is kinda conflicted with itself. The added damage per ally adjacend and the immobilize don't combine very well. I think bolding blow would be perfect for setting up tri-thrust top. Tri-thrust bottom can be nice if you're fishing for your rolling shield cards. Taunting howl is mostly about the bottom and initiative. Initiative 11 and set up most formations you can think of. Great for Tri-thrust. I guess you can use the top in the last room to gain some xp and do some heavy tanking.
I think you are missing a KEY element of Resolved Courage. That grants a +1 to the next attack ABILITY by you or an adjacent ally. This card is great to use when you are already in position for a multi target formation attack, as you get an additional damage to EACH TARGET. You also don't need to have an adjacent ally for it to work, but an adjacent ally can use this +1 if it is not useful to you. This was one of my "must take" cards throughout my 7 levels with the BS.
I found Resolved Courage was a core card for me mostly for the initiative and the quick formation. It was a bunch of attack 3's and pinned ranged enemies in place with an easy setup. Banner Spear is one of my favorite classes in the game. Absolutely loved my run with her in my real campaign.
I played Banner Spear twice in my campaign, both times as a health sponge tank that exclusively used blue-hex melee attacks (and Air Support) and otherwise focused on either protecting a banner (almost always Banner of Hope) and my teammates. Explosive Epicenter's persistent effect was the lynchpin for this strategy as it lets you move yourself and/or an ally (either a player or a banner which can't otherwise move) into position constantly. This effect feels mandatory for the class, it's a shame you didn't use it. It was fun and felt empowering, albeit a little simple. You basically do just that and nothing else - so if you like that, it's great, but if you want more, this class doesn't have it. Aside from EE's persistent, there isn't really some major paradigm shift you can play with (like Boneshaper + Tranquil Shoes or Shackles + Cracked Mirror) so it's very WYSIWYG.
I was a bit more on the bruiser side thanks to having a second tank in my party, but you've convinced me that EE is core to the banner style of gameplay! I will give it a go when I play this class again.
@@phoenicksgamingu shuld this bottom persistent effect is insanely strong i played it 2 weeks ago and it blew my mind how strong this is. It allows u to pick lower mouvement cards as well that u would be able to take with u otherwise like the mouve 1 loot 1 and makes the mouvement boots trigger twice a round ^^ Makes u a support\control char as well for free.
My wife played this class in a four player campaign alongside myself. We even had a boneshaper with us and she still found it very difficult to do everything she wanted to do. The banners being lost meant that they were oftentimes too much of a hassle to put out for minimal value. I don't know if the banners being non-loss would have been too strong, but it would have alleviated a lot of frustration.
Convincing partners to stay put proves way too frustrating for this class's own good. Full-tank Sunkeeper eclipsed all its support capabilities (this character just refused to die, and that "consume light, give back ally 3 discards" was dope). Sadly teaming with a Blinkblade and a Drifter isn't working as intended, as they move A LOT and all over the place. Has its moments when moving allies proves critical for the attack formation that many times does respectable damage. And the combo Set for the charge/Hold the Line plus Shield 2 on demand perk has monstrous potential. Ps: Thanks for the clean accent, makes watching your content delightful for us non native speakers. I know it's just your voice, still a pro in my book.
Comparing characters to original gloomhaven is tough for sure - some (like sunkeeper) are just so good. I'd say in general the classes are a smidge weaker than they used to be. But yeah, I can see that blinkblade is NOT your friend at all. Thanks for watching!
There are a lot of veteran players and playtesters who rave about Explosive Epicenter bottom as being the card that unlocks a formation-focused build. It will get overlooked by many players who just see "meh, move 1 who cares". I think you're also looking at the top in the wrong way. Instead of saying "when am I surrounded like this?" instead think "how much flexibility does this give me to hit multiple targets?" In terms of Hold the Line it appears to be a fairly niche card for a tank build that really will only have value in 4-player parties. As 4-player as double the enemies of 2-player and yet sometimes all those enemies focus only on one player in front, having a large shield value makes sense in that context. In 2-player, not advancing the game state through attacking is just a worse option more often. The bottom of Boldening Blow is vital for anyone who wants to tote Banners throughout scenarios, and it's really tough to do this until then.
glad to see you back with the Frosthaven content! I'm guessing you finished the campaign 2p and are now replaying unplayed scenarios using four characters? Or did you restart the campaign and just allow yourself access to all classes? I wonder how some of the later unlockable classes perform in some early scenarios
Your first assumption is correct - I followed a locked plot arc that we didn't get to do in our 2p game. I basically leveled each character and gave additional perks and items after each scenario and it was a great way to simulate the growth process quickly!
My favorite class! Bannerspear having two complexity dots is the 2nd biggest lie the game tells you haha. The skill ceiling is super high and there are some crazy powerful cross class synergies that make maximizing bannerspear a whole party effort. (Biggest lie in the game is the 30 minutes per player printed on every side of the box)
So true on both but on point on the 30 minutes one per player.. in gloomhaven we somtimes manged 2 games in a session.. but not often in frosthaven never^^ To complexity.. its not easy to play if u dont coordinate.. but its ceeling is even higher such a powerfull class and its rated as weak.. which tells me alot of people dont get those formations off. This class scales amazing with higher player counts. Also i suggest peiple to fucus on the bonus checkmarks not the deck improuvement first. Makes this class an amazing door opener which is the most dangerous situation in gloomhaven games.
A final point dont play it together with other classes that are position havy or lack unconditional sustain dmg. Bad with gmini for that reason. Pair it with high dmg mele and u will hava a blast its crazy good with a boneshapper that is a team player.
Uuh hard disagree on banner of hope 😂 sure the health is nice but what you are missing is that this makes your party more or less immune to negative conditions like wound, poison and brittle. We played a scenario with frost imps and this card made that scenario a walk in the park. Sure sometimes you are unlucky with initiative but still the mount of damage negated by that banner was insane. So bring it against small enemies that dont do a ton of damage but throw out conditions nd that card really shines.
For sure, every card has a value - I think you've found the one for banner of hope! Did you bring it along with you or just use it in the main imp room?
@phoenicksgaming in that scenario I dragged it all the way and did the Mastery. I also brought it in other scenarios and results where a bit more mixed but in general the value you get is usually insane because it's not just the heal but you also free up more actions as other players don't have to use their items or cards to heal.
@all cost did more fore me then i thought if u are low on players i would take it.. i slept to long on it. And even top is usfull with no healers. Also top heals poison, wound for no life cost to yourself
This class cant(Edit: its more enjoyable if not but can) be played if u play with the rule that u are not allowed to comunicate what every ones does this round.
@@peterkay3686true but initiatives ruin formations and people dont want to be faster then u at the front now that stuns and disarms are rare.. just think playing it with one higher difficulty will be a more satisfying experiance and its totaly worth the trade of of a harder encounter.
You should try Explosive Epicenter bottom - it's absolutely insane value. It is like an extra half action every turn for the rest of the game. It makes it pretty easy to play one of your non-move bottom abilities and still move and attack. I am not surprised they decided the "only if an enemy is nearby" restriction was warranted.
Regarding Boldening Blow, it's not as good as you thought: it only hits ONE enemy. The wording is weird but you can check the FAQ.
Oh snap - I thought this meant for the disarm but yeah. I guess that makes sense balance wise but that's a bummer
Level 4: boldening blow: 29:15
You only hit one red hex in the ability. Not all of them.
Imagine a 4-hex non-loss disarm that does 16 damage.
Yikes, ill put a note in the description, great catch
Im not using it but i took it that only the disarm is on one enemy in the red but all enemys are getting hit.
@@blubblubwhatFAQ clarifies this to only one target for both disarm and attack.
@@itemforty thx!
I think you're probably underrating the bottom action of Taunting Howl a bit, which is basically "set up any formation you want at initiative 11". It becomes really easy to hit cards like Tri Thrust with that and Explosive Epicenter bottom in play.
I think you're probably also underrating the Banner of Doom a bit -- it's basically pinging all enemies for a damage each turn all scenario which seems like it can really add up.
Really enjoy the content!
You've convinced me to give taunting howl another look, but I'm still not convinced that banner of doom is what I want a level 9 loss card to be doing for me? It requires additional attention and I'm fighting monsters that are level 4/5 when I'm at this level so the pings feel less exciting to me? Have you tried it out in practice?
I think it is just very scenario dependent. If there are high shield low health enemies like flame demons, banner of doom is crazy good. If there are tanky algox guards everywhere, just use the top and poison the whole room instead.
@@phoenicksgamingour BannerSpear had it and we had like two missions where it really shined. That said, it was still worth more than the usual loss action even if it just randomly pinged some enemies. It added up quite a bit. But yeah, compare that to Meteors T9 card... and weep.
@djaxupjazz not everything is meteors haha
Boldening Blow does not hit every red hex. It targets one enemy that is in any of the red hexes. If it could target 4, it would be better than a level 9 card. Still, it's really good. The bottom is arguably better than the top because it basically guarantees you'll get a full great formation off on the most enemies.
Explosive Epicenter's bottom burn is incredible. I'm level 4 right now and if I had Explosive Epicenter's bottom active, I would do SO much more damage. There are many times where you just need a little tweaking of positions to optimize formations and this does the trick. It also lets you move an ally before you use a card that lets you grant movement so you can grant, move, and grant again moving people exactly where you need. It also makes it a lot easier to bring a banner from toom to room especially when you can't grant it movement on a turn.
I did put a correction about boldening blow in the description and have listened to the many comments pointing out my underevaluation of explosive epicenter! You are well supported by your fellow commenters :)
26:04 lvl 3 let them come worked for me always.. the top is amazing suppport. Aplying poison for multiple atack allies is great. the bottom i used raerly but is amazing with bone shapper. Also if its u can afford two losses u are basicly sun class from base gloomhaven.
It has been a long time since your last character guide, but it was worth the wait. I think when we start with Frosthaven I'll start with the bannerspear.
I applaud that! The class is more fun than the internet gave it credit for
Its super fun if u can get the formations off its like beeing able to blow off ur lost aoe attacks every itteration:) a dream come true. If u play only with 2 players i suggest always using ur free summon and maybe a mele second player or bone shaper.
@@blubblubwhatbone shaper and Banner Spear have crazy good synergy
I think incendiary throw can be quite good when combined with the banner of strength or resolved courage or both.
And our geminate loves fire being generated.
Our bannerspear also started using driving inspiration to generate sun for the geminate.
Attack 2 with advantage is pretty close to attack 3. And range 4 or 3 is pretty good.
The banner of hope was pretty usefull in the bannerspear solo scenario. And I think a boneshaper would love having a banner of hope around.
The top of at all costs is great against poison, brittle or wound.
note that healing poison doesn't add health to your ally so you don't suffer damage.
Single target meatgrinder is still pretty respectable.
I think pinning charge is kinda conflicted with itself. The added damage per ally adjacend and the immobilize don't combine very well.
I think bolding blow would be perfect for setting up tri-thrust top. Tri-thrust bottom can be nice if you're fishing for your rolling shield cards.
Taunting howl is mostly about the bottom and initiative. Initiative 11 and set up most formations you can think of. Great for Tri-thrust. I guess you can use the top in the last room to gain some xp and do some heavy tanking.
All very good points! I haven't played the solo scenarios but it's cool to hear that it encourages use of the banners
I think you are missing a KEY element of Resolved Courage. That grants a +1 to the next attack ABILITY by you or an adjacent ally. This card is great to use when you are already in position for a multi target formation attack, as you get an additional damage to EACH TARGET. You also don't need to have an adjacent ally for it to work, but an adjacent ally can use this +1 if it is not useful to you. This was one of my "must take" cards throughout my 7 levels with the BS.
Good point! Really steps up those sweeping attacks
Thanks so much for this guide! Really looking forward to playing frost haven with this class for my birthday! I will be the banner lord!
May you journey with strength and grace!
Nice i was waiting for u to do the next guide and id actualy happens to be the class a play!
Resolved courage looks good because of initiative
Agreed! But I rarely play a card just for initiative
I found Resolved Courage was a core card for me mostly for the initiative and the quick formation. It was a bunch of attack 3's and pinned ranged enemies in place with an easy setup.
Banner Spear is one of my favorite classes in the game. Absolutely loved my run with her in my real campaign.
The init matters more when playing with friends and not solo handed I suspect? But yeah, super fun class
I played Banner Spear twice in my campaign, both times as a health sponge tank that exclusively used blue-hex melee attacks (and Air Support) and otherwise focused on either protecting a banner (almost always Banner of Hope) and my teammates. Explosive Epicenter's persistent effect was the lynchpin for this strategy as it lets you move yourself and/or an ally (either a player or a banner which can't otherwise move) into position constantly. This effect feels mandatory for the class, it's a shame you didn't use it. It was fun and felt empowering, albeit a little simple. You basically do just that and nothing else - so if you like that, it's great, but if you want more, this class doesn't have it. Aside from EE's persistent, there isn't really some major paradigm shift you can play with (like Boneshaper + Tranquil Shoes or Shackles + Cracked Mirror) so it's very WYSIWYG.
I was a bit more on the bruiser side thanks to having a second tank in my party, but you've convinced me that EE is core to the banner style of gameplay! I will give it a go when I play this class again.
@@phoenicksgamingu shuld this bottom persistent effect is insanely strong i played it 2 weeks ago and it blew my mind how strong this is. It allows u to pick lower mouvement cards as well that u would be able to take with u otherwise like the mouve 1 loot 1 and makes the mouvement boots trigger twice a round ^^
Makes u a support\control char as well for free.
@@blubblubwhat glad to hear the commenters are correct!
My wife played this class in a four player campaign alongside myself. We even had a boneshaper with us and she still found it very difficult to do everything she wanted to do. The banners being lost meant that they were oftentimes too much of a hassle to put out for minimal value. I don't know if the banners being non-loss would have been too strong, but it would have alleviated a lot of frustration.
I hear you - the banners feel like a bit of a trap to me. It'd be nice if they lasted for two turns or something
Convincing partners to stay put proves way too frustrating for this class's own good. Full-tank Sunkeeper eclipsed all its support capabilities (this character just refused to die, and that "consume light, give back ally 3 discards" was dope). Sadly teaming with a Blinkblade and a Drifter isn't working as intended, as they move A LOT and all over the place. Has its moments when moving allies proves critical for the attack formation that many times does respectable damage. And the combo Set for the charge/Hold the Line plus Shield 2 on demand perk has monstrous potential.
Ps: Thanks for the clean accent, makes watching your content delightful for us non native speakers. I know it's just your voice, still a pro in my book.
Comparing characters to original gloomhaven is tough for sure - some (like sunkeeper) are just so good. I'd say in general the classes are a smidge weaker than they used to be. But yeah, I can see that blinkblade is NOT your friend at all. Thanks for watching!
play solo 4 handed is nuts. glad you are enjoying getting back into frosthaven
It was but I needed an outlet! I'll probably try 3 handed when I return next...
There are a lot of veteran players and playtesters who rave about Explosive Epicenter bottom as being the card that unlocks a formation-focused build. It will get overlooked by many players who just see "meh, move 1 who cares". I think you're also looking at the top in the wrong way. Instead of saying "when am I surrounded like this?" instead think "how much flexibility does this give me to hit multiple targets?"
In terms of Hold the Line it appears to be a fairly niche card for a tank build that really will only have value in 4-player parties. As 4-player as double the enemies of 2-player and yet sometimes all those enemies focus only on one player in front, having a large shield value makes sense in that context. In 2-player, not advancing the game state through attacking is just a worse option more often.
The bottom of Boldening Blow is vital for anyone who wants to tote Banners throughout scenarios, and it's really tough to do this until then.
Fair point on explosive epicenter! I'll have to up that card when I return to this class and try it out
glad to see you back with the Frosthaven content! I'm guessing you finished the campaign 2p and are now replaying unplayed scenarios using four characters? Or did you restart the campaign and just allow yourself access to all classes? I wonder how some of the later unlockable classes perform in some early scenarios
Your first assumption is correct - I followed a locked plot arc that we didn't get to do in our 2p game. I basically leveled each character and gave additional perks and items after each scenario and it was a great way to simulate the growth process quickly!
My favorite class! Bannerspear having two complexity dots is the 2nd biggest lie the game tells you haha. The skill ceiling is super high and there are some crazy powerful cross class synergies that make maximizing bannerspear a whole party effort.
(Biggest lie in the game is the 30 minutes per player printed on every side of the box)
A fellow fan! I can't help but feel like the complexity was downplayed a bit to suggest a spread of difficulties for the starting classes....
So true on both but on point on the 30 minutes one per player.. in gloomhaven we somtimes manged 2 games in a session.. but not often in frosthaven never^^
To complexity.. its not easy to play if u dont coordinate.. but its ceeling is even higher such a powerfull class and its rated as weak.. which tells me alot of people dont get those formations off. This class scales amazing with higher player counts.
Also i suggest peiple to fucus on the bonus checkmarks not the deck improuvement first. Makes this class an amazing door opener which is the most dangerous situation in gloomhaven games.
More cat cameos please!
A final point dont play it together with other classes that are position havy or lack unconditional sustain dmg. Bad with gmini for that reason.
Pair it with high dmg mele and u will hava a blast its crazy good with a boneshapper that is a team player.
9:35 this and tip of the speer are problematik in corridors.. check the layout first do not take them if u have alot of corners and corridors.
Good call!
@@phoenicksgaming Had to learn it through frustration^^
Boldening blow only attacks 1 of the 4 red hexes, not all 4
I put a correction in the description. Thank you!
@@phoenicksgaming I only knew due to the FAQ, I initially thought it was the same way
@@jaredrepass it's not the greatest templating I've seen on a card
@phoenicksgaming no, no its not
Uuh hard disagree on banner of hope 😂 sure the health is nice but what you are missing is that this makes your party more or less immune to negative conditions like wound, poison and brittle. We played a scenario with frost imps and this card made that scenario a walk in the park. Sure sometimes you are unlucky with initiative but still the mount of damage negated by that banner was insane. So bring it against small enemies that dont do a ton of damage but throw out conditions nd that card really shines.
For sure, every card has a value - I think you've found the one for banner of hope! Did you bring it along with you or just use it in the main imp room?
@phoenicksgaming in that scenario I dragged it all the way and did the Mastery. I also brought it in other scenarios and results where a bit more mixed but in general the value you get is usually insane because it's not just the heal but you also free up more actions as other players don't have to use their items or cards to heal.
@@Thunderfingerz glad to hear you used it so successfully!
@all cost did more fore me then i thought if u are low on players i would take it.. i slept to long on it. And even top is usfull with no healers. Also top heals poison, wound for no life cost to yourself
This class cant(Edit: its more enjoyable if not but can) be played if u play with the rule that u are not allowed to comunicate what every ones does this round.
U will not enjoy this class if u do play with it. So just up the difficulty by one and play with communication. The trade off is worth it
I think even the broad communication allowed is good enough (are you moving or not?) But you're right that full communication is best.
You can communicate what you're doing, you can even tell people what exact hex you're moving to. You just can't say exact numbers or card names.
@@peterkay3686true but initiatives ruin formations and people dont want to be faster then u at the front now that stuns and disarms are rare.. just think playing it with one higher difficulty will be a more satisfying experiance and its totaly worth the trade of of a harder encounter.