Profitec Drive Espresso Machine Review
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
- Learn about the Profitec Drive including test results for milk steaming performance, brew temperature accuracy and fast heating modes. The Drive updates the highly regarded Profitec Pro 700 with new features including flow control, time programmable active and passive preinfusion, on/off by time of day, quick heating mode, quick steam valves and easy to use plain language programming.
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Products
Profitec Drive: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
BWT Water Treatment
Aqualizer Pitcher: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
Bestsave in reservoir pad filter: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
Bestmax Premium (for plumbed machines): www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
01:43 New Features
02:58 K.I.S.S. Design/Display
06:24 Brew Temperature Tests
08:46 Milk Froth Tests
10:38 Flow Control Rates
12:53 External Upgrades
13:24 OLED Display & Programming
15:35 Pre-Infusion Programming
16:37 Fast Heating
20:02 Q&A
21:42 In the Box
22:30 Custom Options
23:10 Water Filtration
24:37 What Next?
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I didn't know what I missed until Mark's soothing vibe pops back on my RUclips home page.
Thank you Mark for presentation. Both ECM and Profitec are great espresso machines
You’re welcome and thanks for the comment!
Marc
I could listen to Mark all day
I just bought it, this machine is amazing, heating time is so good, and the flow control works really nice. Good to see you guys doing videos long time since December 😎
Hey f, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience!
Marc
Can you give some more detail on what you like and don't like? I'm thinking of getting this or the ecm synchronika
@@devw4967 they are both good, this is a new model, I like the flow control and also the fast heat up time. In 15 mins it's ready and heated to brew. In my case came from profitec 500 single boiler, the difference is day and night.
Honestly, I don't know why everyone is complaining about the tiny screen, I really like the way the rocket integrates the tiny shot timer, if I wanted a big screen, I would go with a bizarra matrix, I really like how it is small, out of the way, and simple, I tend to think with these beautiful machines having a big plastic PID controller on the front makes it look really cheap and out of place. I really like how they've integrated into the machine, good resolution display, but it's not too big.
Hi r, great points!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I’m having a tough time deciding between the synchronic and the drive. Marc, what would you choose and why?
This machine is definitely a winner!
After seeing many reviews of practically all espresso machines, I chose the Profitec Drive, it will be at my house next week! If on the one hand I was tempted to get a Crew or a super technological VBM, the aesthetics and reliability of this machine are unsurpassed.
Good choice!
@@Wholelattelovepage Aesthetically it is beautiful, the menu is easy to learn! Despite having made a double shot of 16 grams in 20 seconds, I have to grind finer, the same creamy and decent coffee came out!
Love your reviews Marc, insightful and covers everything. How much further in making machines better do you think manufacturers can/should go?
Hey dcds, Thanks for the kind words! That's a great question. Innovations and new features picked up in the past couple years after a little slow down during Covid. HX boiler machines with dual PID and ability to run like a normal HX or use a temp probe in the the thermosiphon loop to drive boiler heating are one example. Machines like the Drive with time programmable active and passive pre-infusion, flow and pressure control. These are things that help make better espresso. Then there's use features that make them more convenient and/or consistent. There's programmable on/off, maintenance reminders, fast heating and custom wood and material options. Would some like a machine that puts all the control in an app? A few machines available with that and we're likely to see more. But there's a base who don't want to run everything with their phone. I've seen renewed interest recently in traditional lever machines. These appeal to the purists out there. Very simple with no bells and whistles but requiring knowledge and more hands on technique.
Marc
Just purchased one of these machines. In 2024, I just wish it came with a bottomless Porter filter as stock. Anyone can use the double spouted Porter filter to make a single coffee, the single spouted Porter filter in my opinion is kind of useless. Would've really liked puffy Tech to switch it out.
Hey r, puffy tech :). Thanks for the comment. Swapping out a bottomless for the single spout is something we're always asking manufacturers to do!
Marc
My new achievable grail
I wish it would come with a bottomless basket too. I am saving up for this machine. 🎉
Im a PID Pro500 proud owner - As feedback 2 things that could be improved are:
#1 Better Solid State Relay with heat dissipation - I had changed 2 of them
#2 Find a way to reduce heating time - Maybe mix boiler with grouphead siphoned water and auto close at certain temperature.
Found out temperature peak point is around 35 minutes after turned on, wasting a lot of electricity by passively heating grouphead for 1 minute of use in pulling espresso and steaming milk, twice a day - So that's 1h 10m of electricity for 2 daily shots of 2m - Just a feedback
Hi r, Thanks for the feedback! As covered in the video the new Drive does have a Fast Heating mode so machine is ready to make a coffee in 11-13 minutes. A few months ago we started updating the Pro 500's we ship with an upgraded and relocated relay based on feedback like yours. The relay upgrade is available.
With help from WLL tech support I diagnosed and changed a solid state relay on my Pro 600 after about 4 years of daily use. It would be nice if that risk could be reduced. It was kind of an adventure fixing it once. Next time it will just be a chore.
It looks nice but I wish they would have made the display screen a little bigger.
Indeed!
Yeah, why so tiny, and why is at stomach height?
Yes, the display is so small and not at eyesight.
Not so comfortable to work with it.
Thanks for the comments. Some people want more screen - some what less.
I think it is a good thing to stick with the classic design and not go full Decent style on the Profitec. I don't think they want it to look too modern or high tech, and want to maintain the classic Italian look as much as possible. I applaud them for that.
Momentarily this super Profitec Drive espresso machine is in huge demand worldwide.
Especially is Asia and Europe.
Stocks already are running low.
So catch it while you can.
Once in your possession, you don't want to get rid of it ever again,
such a wonderfully topnotch espresso machine.
And being on the waitinglist for six monrhs or so is definately not a nice experience.
Ger yours now and treat yourself exclusively with the Profitec Drive before these are out of stock.
Hi Marc,
thanks for this great review of this machine.
How long after switching on the machine did you take the temperature measurements?
Thanks and best regards
Hi AM, You're welcome and thank you for the comment and question. For the fast heating test it was at ~11 minutes after power on. For the regular temp testing at 196, 200, 204 machine was powered on for no less than 60 minutes. I worked my way up from low to high with 15 minutes for machine to equalize after each setting change.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the response and info. I am really considering to buy this machine.
Do you know or have experience if the temperature is also that stable after 25 min turning it on?
I am triggered since I saw a video from a Rocket Appramento TCA (not a dual boiler but a two-circuit machine) which could not reach the temperature at all. Also after 40 min the brewtemperature was still at 85-88 °C. Only after way more then 60 min the machine was able to brew with temperature over 90°C.
Best, Andreas
I love rotary pump machines. This machine here is a beast. Built quality shouts.
What I would like to see in the future. Is
1. The water bowl standing out of the machine, like the ECM Puristika or the Lelit Bianca v3. Cause I don't like my water being heated permanently. This is for the people making 1 or 2 espresso per day, while the maching stays ON for 4-5 hours per day.
2. I understand that Chrome machines look ideal before buying it. And believe me, mine is as clean as it can get after 2 years of use. But, please bring colour coating to the machines, like La Marzocco. Imagine having this coffee machine in a small office environment. How many will touch this ? How many fingerprints will remain on ?
I can see the custom solutions, but I would like colour coating all over machine. Especially the drip tray, that I clean up every single night. And unfortunately some fingerprint are impossible to get rid of there
3. Preinfusion. I would like new machines to come with a mobile app, that I can select over there the preinfusion times. Not to touch at all the PID screen. Why ? Because I change coffee almost every single week. I try different tastes. Then, I would like with some to select the preinfusion, with some others not
Of course the above, is my own preferences, my own ideas, and this doesn't mean you will all agree with them
Hey Kats, Thanks for sharing your ideas! I know manufacturers read comments in these videos and our staff pass along what we hear as well!
1. Understand the water thing. If sitting more than a day or so I also turn over water in the boiler. Plumb a machine and no reservoir use!
2. Seeing more variety beyond the classic polished look. ECM anthracite Synchronika, Profitec has more options on machines like 400 and GO, Bezzera has a bunch.
3. App control... We'll be seeing more of that. But very triggering. Some are all about it, other not so much.
Marc
Finally. Thanks Marc, great video. A couple questions. 1) can I buy the complete plumb-in kit (including the pressure regulator, gauge and special hose fitting for the oddball end of the included hose) in Canada, and 2), when I turn my machine to the stock flow rate of 1 1/4 turns my group head pressure when brewing is 10+ bars of pressure. Should I adjust the flow control value to read o bar? That’s about 1 turn only. Thanks.
Hi LTLR, You're welcome!
1. Yes, the BWT package is available on our Canadian site here: wholelattelove.ca/products/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package-w-besthead-flex
If you did not receive the 3/8 BSP adapter with us from the machine your best bet is to contact our sales team. They'll get you that and properly set you up with the filter package.
2. For brew pressure... The goal is to set the bypass on the rotary pump so you read 9 bar static pressure at the pressure gauge mounted into the face of the machine. Static pressure is read by using the backflush (blind) disc in the portafilter or completely closing the flow control and running the pump. This video shows how to adjust system brew pressure using a backflush disc: ruclips.net/video/2ArWAtuUTOM/видео.htmlsi=DafAlQd8q_jBy9G5 In the video is a discussion of why the group mounted gauge may read higher than the pressure gauge on the face of the machine.
If desired you can use the group mounted pressure gauge to set the maximum pressure instead of the gauge in the face of the machine. To do that use the backflush disc and run the pump and adjust the pump's bypass as shown in the video. Due to the different locations of where pressure is measured by the gauges the group mounted gauge usually reads higher by ~1 bar. Reasons for this are covered in the video.
All that said, as you'll learn in the video ~10 bar on the group mounted gauge is normal. You can certainly adjust but there's little chance you'll notice any difference in an extraction at 1 bar difference in pressure. On the other hand, large flow rate or big pressure changes can make a real difference.
Should you adjust the flow rate to change pressure? Well, not for general brew pressure. But if doing a flow profile say like a long low flow rate pre-infusion of a fresh from roast coffee you can monitor the group gauge to get an idea of how the pre-infusion is progressing. Maybe let pressure come up to 2-3 bar then decrease the flow setting to hold at about that pressure until you see first drips and then increase the flow rate to a more normal setting of 1 to 1.25 turns open.
I hope that all makes sense. At the end of the day a lot of people get too wrapped up in the 9 bar dogma.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you for the very complete and helpful answer. I’m just watching your newly launched video from today on the Drive. Great stuff.
Ordered!! Great sales team, another Mark helped me.
This is great! I wonder if I can order those "joy stick"controls to upgrade my Pro 700. It would be fantastic if they are compatible. Let us know Mark if you can. Thanks.
did they say if you can get the joysticks
Thanks for the comment. At this point, joystick lever valves not available for retrofit.
@@Wholelattelovepage ok Thank you
Great video review, congratulations! When you insert the active pre-infusion, at how many bars of pressure is the water delivered? Thank you.
Hey fabio, Depends on how long you run the active pre-infusion. If long enough the machine may reach full pressure if flow control is set to stock flow rate (1.25 turns open) or higher. You can reduce pressure on the coffee during active pre infusion by adjusting the flow control to a lower rate.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the reply Marc. Next month the Profitec Drive will also be available in Italy. Having had to return the Gaggia Evo, which I was very happy with, I thought a lot and now I'm taking this big step!
@wholelattelovepage I can’t decide between the synchronica and the drive. Marc, which would you choose and why?
Hi tk, If you are likely to use the new features like active & passive pre-infusion, time of day programming etc then I'd go with the Drive. If not, and you appreciate finishing quality the Synchronika is a little nicer. Drive's portafilters are straight while the Sync's are angled. Under the hood, the machines use essentially identical components. I'd likely go with the Drive for the new features.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage In fact, I'm treating myself to coffee and cappuccinos with my new Drive! It's an amazing machine.
Nice, great details in this test opposing many other previous videoen that is ‘just’ a test. I actually chose the Pro800 recently over the Drive, since I really wanted the tactile feeling of the lever. All the videoes coming out of the Drive, I hope the upgrade-itus doesn’t kick in 😂
Hey F, Thanks for the comment and sharing. The Rx to prevent is great espresso from your lever!
Marc
The Pro 800 is in particular not very popular.
It has a copper boiler which can give a special flavour to your espresso.
A SS boiler is a way better.
The Profitec Drive is a far more practicable espresso machine compared to the Profitec 800.
@@OliviaNewtonJohn-yn8pi if I was looking for practical, I’d buy a filter machine. Purchasing a lever was putting the coffee quality/type of a lever above the practicallity of a Dual boiler machine. I am quite happy, so what you think is better is slightly irrelevant after I’ve bought the machine ;)
@@Fulllean
Which does't alter the fact that the Profitec 800 has a copper boiler which is considered to be a huge disadvantage.
A copper boiler can give your espressos a psrticular copper taste and flavour.
From this respect the Profitec Drive delivers much better tasting espressos with a far more richer flavour.
Great video Marc. How r u liking this machine vs the synchronika?
Hey ccg, thanks for the comment and question. Like the Pro 700, under the hood the boilers, pump and hydraulics are essentially the same as the Synchronika. The Drive has a bunch of new features accessible through the control panel like active and passive pre-infusion, on/off by day/time plus easy access to functions with plain language display. I like the change to lever operated valves. The external finishing of the Synchronika is a little nicer and I prefer its angled portafiters.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepageis there any way to use angled filters on the drive?
@@devw4967 Yes! Most any portafilter made for use with E61 group is interchangeable.
Hello, thanks for the review. Do you have any information about the screen that appears when we press two buttons immediately after pressing the button on the machine, while the machine is not yet fully turned on? This screen appeared for me, but I turned the machine off and on again without making any changes. But I would like to know what settings can be adjusted. Maybe you shouldn't change anything on that screen.
Hey O, I believe you are seeing the technicians menu which has adjustments to parameters for PID algorithm calculations. Strongly recommend you do not make any changes to those settings!
Marc
I am looking for a machine to start a coffee truck but am unsure what to choose from. Do you have any advice or recommendations you could give me?
Hi SL, Hard to give advice not knowing what type of volume you might do and other situational needs. If you are in the US/Canada I recommend contacting our sales team. Our experts will appraise your needs and recommend appropriate equipment: wholelattelove.ca/pages/contact-us
Marc
Any idea if the side panels can be customized, like for the Synchronika? A little less chrome would be welcome for my liking!
Hey martin, currently no options to customize Drive side panels.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc. I meant: do you see them as being customizable? I would do this myself!
@@martingagnon4372 ah DIY... Well, anything is possible given talent and time but it'll be a lot more involved than the Synchronika! The ECM panels have one bolt at the top going through an L shaped tab holding each side panel in place and 2 straight slide in tabs at the bottom. If you're at all handy it's not to hard to fabricate the 3 metal tabs to mount a custom Synchronika panel. The Drive panels wrap under the machine at the bottom and have internal fastening to the front and back panels. Beyond that, I'm not certain if the Drive's internals extend slightly beyond frame edges or reuire a bit of clearance. The way the original panels are constructed there's ~3/4" of internal clearance beyond the frame edge.
Marc
is the steam milk is smooth and recommendation for latte art? Or just for a simple latte art? I mean on Lelit Bianca the steam is easy and slow smooth for steam the milk. Thank you..
Hi i, Thanks for the question. The Profitec Drive is an excellent steamer! Totally capable of producing a silky microfoam for pouring high quality latte art. As with all dual boiler machines you can adjust the steam boiler pressure to match your frothing skill level.
Marc
How’s the reliability between Bianca and Drive? I heard that Bianca is a great starter pack for a DB machine, but it is using lower quality parts internally and externally. I’m not sure how true is that. I’m choosing between Drive and Bianca. Which one would you recommend?
Hi ct, If you take care of the machines using good water that will not cause scale and perform routine maintenance expected reliability is about the same. The external finishing of the Drive is much more refined than the Bianca.
Hey :) Mark, you are well informed - why the new Drive's max steam temperature is 270 F while predecessor and Synchronika can reach 272-273? Is it a new PID?
Hey p, Thanks for the comment! That difference was one of the first things I noticed on initial use of the machine. I did ask Profitec about the difference and still do not have a good answer. Honestly the difference in steam power isn't much.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage
Thank you! Appreciate :)
I also sent them formal inquiry. Still… complete silence 💁
EDIT
Got a message today: there will be software update. Max steam temp will be higher than 132 C / 270 F.
Would it be easy to change out the pressure gauge? Not so into the orange 😅
Hey RC, yes, many gauges available that fit E61 group port. The slightly tricky part is lining up so it sits at 12 o’clock. But a combo of O rings and maybe a little Teflon tape make it not a big deal.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage awesome thanks. Thinking about this one or waiting to see if the synchronika gets upgraded with similar features. Although I am very happy with my breville dual boiler, I do have the upgradeitis
At this point, I'm not sure why they still make the Synchronika as this new Profitec seems to have everything the present-day Synchronika has but now with updated electronics. The new display is nice, but for these eyes it would be even better at twice the size.
Lexus vs Toyota
A new Synchronika is probably in the making so if ya want an ECM best to wait
I have no info on that but if it does happen it will be more $$. Just like the 700 and current Sync
I might have used the L v. T analogy once or twice - spot on!
Marc
Will the other Profitec models go down in price when this becomes more popular
Good question - IDK.
How does this compare to the Lelit Bianca v3?
Hi a, the machines have similar capabilities with flow control and programmable pre-infusion. One hard to miss difference are the quick steam lever operated valves on the Drive vs. knob valves on the Bianca. The external finish quality is nicer on the Drive. A few exposed seams and sharper edges on the Bianca and lower quality fasteners. Bianca has a limited range of flow rates available unless you adjust and remount the flow control paddle. Entire range of flow rates always available on the Drive. In the end they are equally capable of excellent espresso. Drive has Fast Heating and time of day, day of week programmable on/off times. Drive's display is a bit nicer with real words used for menu items while the Bianca mostly uses symbols.
Hope that helps!
Marc
I just received my machine,amazing kit. I noticed something odd today,my grind must have been too fine and pressure jumped to 10 bars,still a reasonable flow. I opened flow control valve all the way but the pressure did not drop,is that normal shouldn’t that affect pressure?
Hi p, thanks for your patience - I've been offline on vacation. The maximum brew pressure the machine can output is determined by the rotary pump's bypass setting. Opening the flow control all the way will in most cases cause brew pressure to increase but only as high as the bypass setting.
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you. This is my first machine with pressure gauges, upgraded from barista touch. I need to pay attention to the pressure on flow control valve, the pressure gauge on the bottom right that also activates during brew is not important to watch what is happening there?
@@pawelgedyk1762 The gauge at the group is a better indication of actual pressure on the coffee. The gauge on the machine's face measures pressure in cold water very near the output of the pump. That gauge can be used to set the machines max pressure and for a general idea of brew pressure when extracting. But, do not focus too hard on brew pressure. A bar or 2 doesn't make much of an impact on an extraction. People get laser focused on a perfect 9 bar but in reality it doesn't mean much. If you're reading somewhere between 7 - 11 bar and shot timing is reasonable everything is fine.
How a small display and not at eyesight.
And all these electronics!!!
The more of it the greater the chances something goes wrong with it.
Just keep it simple.
I am sticking to the ECM Classika pid.
For home use an excellent buy.
Hi NS, Thanks for sharing your thoughts! The Classika is an excellent and well regarded machine! It has a 4.8/5 star rating in 100+ verified buyer reviews.
Marc
Thanks to Lelit for inspired other e61 machines about these menu settings :) In fact they still don't have flow profiles as Lelit Bianca... Nice machine though...
Hey b, thanks for the comment. Drive comes stock with flow control. Bianca is in our top 5 DB's of 2023 and a very capable machine. Put side by side and build/finish quality is a bit nicer on Profitec.
@@Wholelattelovepage Finish quality does not make espresso… Also box contain is a nightmare on Profitec side 😬
Did you say the CEO of profitec is named Michael Hawk!? MICHAEL......HAWK!
MIKE HAWK!?
Yes! actually spelled Hauck and I potentially Americanized the pronunciation a bit.
Marc
Nice machine - apart from the digital display which looks like junk though imho
Hey p, thanks for sharing your opinion.
Marc