Some links to research: forums.atariag... www.mxic.com.t... hackaday.com/2... Be sure to follow me on twitter at: / cellprocessing Discord: / discord / cellprocessing
I really wouldn’t worry about it, the oldest flash memory based devices for gaming would be the PS1 memory cards, which we haven’t seen go bad on a massive scale and they are almost 30 years old. In addition you can both read and write to these cartridges further reducing lifespan and they often have been left unused for decades and still work. The DS cartridges are also approaching 20 years and we haven’t seen issues there either. Lastly, flash technology has also been improved greatly since the mid 90s.
I remember a post back when NintendoAge was still around in which a user worriedly urged people to check their DS games for save failures or outright failure to boot because they had read that 10 years was the average NAND flash shelf life, but so far so good, even all these years later. We're lucky that most of our storage technology seems to be far exceeding the expected life as advertised by the manufacturers - I remember reading that standard Hard Disk Drives have a life expectancy of 10 years and my oldest HDD from the PC I purchased in 2009 is still kicking, though it does run a bit slowly nowadays - I suspect that's more an issue with the mechanical components. Given that Switch cartridges are read-only, we're hopefully looking at several decades of use.
@@SerenadeURA I've got 30 year old hard drives from 1991-92 that still work with the data preserved. I think Hard Drive life expectancy especially when talking about cold storage (a disconnected drive just sitting on a shelf) has been vastly underrated.
I think the Sega Master System's Card Format games might also use Flash Memory for holding game data. I could be wrong however so don't quote me on that. All I know is they still work even now.
@@Nin10Guy I'd be quite surprised if the Master System used flash, we're talking 1986 era and I don't think it was around. The first time I ever even heard about rewritable solid state flash of any kind (ie, non battery backup) was the original PlayStations memory cards. I know Neo Geo used memory cards too a few years before but I'm not sure how those work either.
Fully agree. I would even go as far as 50. By that time I guess emulation would be considered ok. I mean our grandkids does not necessarily need to be able to get a physical game as a heirloom but we (the buyers) should be able to play them for the larger part of our own life.
@@jayb8934 that’s not the point though. My reason to collect to begin with is because I like that game know that will not lose interest on them. I’ve been doing this for a long time now. I guess he’s right that nothing lasts forever.
Thanks for the SO, Its an interesting topic. I hope no one took your videos for fear mongering. I found your approach very informative, collectors should know about their games and the tech thats in them for longevity and preservation. I work with applications that need memory to be solid for a very long time with little to no maintenance, so finding out what options are out there is always on the mind. I never thought to apply that to modern games though until your last video came up. Like everyone else, I just shut my brain off after work and pick up a game to play to relax.
@@gamingwithstand6886 Absolutely! A lot of companies still back up to tape. There are also plenty of modern adaptations to tape archiving where cartridges are often in the size of multi terabytes.
I remember I think in 2005 Gmail something happened and Google had to recover a lot of peoples emails. Only a few they could not recover. In the news story they said they backup to tape. I don't work in IT so when I think tape I'm thinking of someone loading Doom on tape on some retro PC.😂
This is why, more important than having physical copies, is being able to backup your games. All physical media has a shelf life, and the way consoles are made means that they may not necessarily last forever being subject to mechanical or other types of failure that something like a SNES didn't have to worry about. Physical was always just a stopgap to real preservation.
yep which is why i stopped buying all games for my switch and getting them from GOG. so i can just use OneXplayer2. And emulate the rest of switch. its like all the modern consoles have no flexibility or future proof. not to mention Nintendo's horrible user account switch issues. all the primary secondary BS
@@jfitnesshealth yeah I mostly game on PC these days for many of the same reasons. I love the fact that PCs can always play my old games from 5, 10, 20 and often even more years ago on any modern PC. You don't have to keep and maintain an old PC lying around from every 5 year era just to play games from that era. Backwards compatibility is just assumed as a given. I hate the idea these days of buying into consoles that feel like a "black hole" where every 5 years the platform gets wiped out and your games all exist in a "silo" in which it's anyone's guess if you can play then on a future console, or if instead you'll have to meticulously maintain an old platform in working order just to keep access to your old games. In the past decade I'm largely done with that and consoles. Like you said I have PC games now from the past 2 decades plus that I just have nice easy access to and I don't have to worry everytime I replace my gaming laptop every few years about losing my investments. I still play all my GOG, Steam, and itch.io games I've purchased since 2003-2004 on my latest gaming laptop I bought in 2021. ✌️😊
@@TransCanadaPhil yep same here! I remember making my own collection of PC demos from file planet.. Backing up patches etc. Once we stopped using memory cards and consoles started having hard drives is when I started getting nervous lol
If you look at what we had with floppy disks we have come a long way with retaining data. Hopefully the future will bring better technology for data storage.
I still have 4.25" floppies that are perfectly fine. My copy of Rick Dangerous runs flawlessly. And data on floppies are only supposed to last for 15-20 years, yet this game was made in 1989 so don't believe longevity numbers, nand storage has not even been out for 20 years so all we have are gusstamates on how long they will last
@@daedalus547 It is really a Matter of Quality. I also have Floppies still living, newer ones i've bought late in the Life Span (3,5") are dead. Same with CDs, most are fine, have a few cheap ones that i burned myself and they are also dead.
@@Azuris190 I find it's not so much the discs/disks but the drives that determine the life of the media, I've had floppies fail in the past, but then I noticed something, I bought a NOS floppy and only used that drive, I found that the media to this day lasts as long as you keep the drive clean, back in the day I used to use floppies for school so those disks got dirty. Same with optical media, I found that my 4x or 8x drives won't damage CD's however the vibration from a 48x or 52x drive actually damages the top layer of the disc as it vibrates.
@@daedalus547 It's also a matter of statistical failure rates and when the risk of failure becomes unacceptably high. The manufacturer estimated lifespan is basically what they feel comfortable telling their customers the product will last for without significant issue and barring manufactured defects.
I remember you mentioning potential future solutions/repairs in the last video. I still hold out hope that there will be some sort of resolution to come about out of this the next 20 years or so. The idea of an “infinite battery” mod for a GameBoy game seemed impossible 20 years ago, and look where we are now… Technology is always progressing, and humanity’s always looking for a way to cheat the system lol. What’s impossible today might be commonplace tomorrow. Keep up the great content 👍
Your channel seems to have gotten a large influx of traffic, that's awesome to see! You deserve it! Gives me hope for my channel as well. I mean, it would help if I would make more videos again.. been kind of burnt out mentally, need to get over that.
I don't think you were trying to fear monger or anything like that. You're just bringing up interesting questions so everyone can learn more about it. Great follow up video.
I will never buy digital. If physical stops with Nintendo, XBox, Playstation, i go Everdrive or so. And buy old games, there’s so many good, old games now, you’ll never be able to finish them before you die.
Great info, man. I know this is from awhile ago, but I appreciate the optimism 🙂 Now if I can just find the time to play these games before they go bad...🤔
Damn, We're takin on a saint war fighting in defense of the old classic physical releases while considering how much time & which media will last longer: cartridges, optic discs or the servers that holds our purchased games....
We can always reflash cartridges. If a disc gets scratched, it can easily become beyond repair. Servers for live service games are a scam. Cartridges for the win tbh
Everything is moving toward digital downloads to the point that I think gamestop will go out of business. "You will own nothing and be happy" - Klaus Schwab
Never thought about that until now. The old carts from the nes all the way to the n64 including all gameboy systems used a different kind of cart, those were the ones that holds memory forever that's why they still work today lol. I always wondered what kind of carts the switch used because they look a lot cheaper than the carts of yesteryear. Now I know they won't last decades like the old carts which will be my deciding factor of buying physical switch games going forward and I'm a physical collector. I hope nintendo solved this problem by making a better cartridges with the switch 2
If the flash is like an SD card, it has a short-ish life before the data disappears but plugging it into a powered system resets that timer. It works similarly to old gameboy carts but instead of a battery, the sections of data are powered by the device you plug it into and refresh their charge without the need to replace a component
How long should I plug in my Switch and 3DS carts into the system, and does the system just need to be powered on or do I need to boot into the game too?
@@infiniterecursion9550 it’s probably like, once every 20 years or something. SD cards last 10 years but our game cartridges clearly last longer than that. The bytes would have to be powered by the system so the system would have to be on and able to detect the card at the very least. That’s the best case scenario. I’m no hardware expert but it’s possible that it may also be that the bytes have to be accessed which would mean you’d have to load every line of code and every asset in the game to stop them from being corrupted. The worst scenario is that the bytes have to be rewritten. Game cartridges are read-only so unless you were able to back them up and force them to accept being flashed again which I’m not sure is possible on a hardware level the bytes will die and the cartridge will become completely empty one day. It may be possible to rewrite a proprietary flash cartridge or it might be impossible without changing it on a hardware level (like how SD cards have a lock switch). If you want to preserve data for long periods of time without using it, use hard drives as they don’t rely on a charge to keep data. If you really want to keep that data as securely as possible, use CDs. They can be scratched but are more robust than hard drives and store the data in physical form. If the CD is intact and undamaged, your data is there. This comes with the downside of having read-only and needing to fragment some files such as switch games but you would fit multiple 3DS games
I've never been big on emulation, but after recently realizing that all of my disc-based consoles are dying and rebuying off ebay only buys maybe a year or two of time and will eventually run out of supply, and learning about the shoddy modern carts, I'm now 100% on board with emulating my entire collection. At least I can preserve it by buying new drives.
The only thing is when you purchase digital games on the switch you technically don’t truly own it because it constantly checks if you’re allowed to play it in the system. And if you don’t have internet you can’t play the games at all. But for the physical copy the system doesn’t need to check if you can get access to it. I noticed this while on a plane and I couldn’t play ANY of my digital games unless I payed for internet. Plus it takes up storage on your system to have digital games anyways which you have to purchase a separate SD card
That only happened because your Switch was not set as the “home” console. If you have it set that way you can play your digital games without an internet connection
I still play my Wii with GameCube games that are already 20 years old.. If they end up dying yes you can play with emulation but it’s not the same.. The feeling of nostalgia you get from playing older systems is priceless IMO
Thank you for making this video. It has helped address some of the concerns that I have had with the Switch cartridges. The Wii U on the other hand....
All hardware dies eventually Thats why emulation and piracy is so important Maybe i wont be able to play my games in the future but i sure as hell can download a copy from the internet
indeed I Prefer Physical. Its like having collector bookshelf. Reminds us of our preferences and revisiting it. Stores data in the disk and less on your hard drive.
@@cascadepinball 10 Years..that is pretty short. I am glad that Sega Genesis, SNES, NES, N64, Gamecube does not have this problem... 10... would that even be enough to create nostalgia for someone? I feel sorry for todays children.. think about all the 5-10 years old that will want to revisit their childhood memories.. when they are 20. We have had it good...
10 years is not a long time for something like this at all, it's looking like ripping your games with a hacked switch will be a necessity in the future.
@@delresearch5416 i definately need it. i have over 45 physical switch games from limited run. i'm also interested in upgrading a few gba games from 2mb to 4mb. the only issue is if i go and upgrade some gba's from forums it looks like that some work some don't. Let's see how this write command mentioned fares against gba upgrading. if i can put a game like shantae or cursed castilla ex on larger cart sizes i would absolutely do that.
3DS games will just die out and your saves will be deleted😂😂😂 most Nintendo games with Cartridges aren’t that future proof they will however last 40 or 50 years depending how you take care of it. Luckily the wii games are future proof though.
Cool video! I think it's just a sign of the times, but it's hard to strike that balance between some digital and some physical because you know game companies will do everything they can to sway people towards digital (low overhead costs), unless they're selling expensive collector's editions.
It depends on quality materials and manufacturing process. I've seen lots of PC-EngineCD and Saturn games that lasts 20+ years without a scratch. Most current platforms features media that will last about 5 years at max. We should push companies to manufacture long lasting electronics sometimes...
Yep, just had my launch edition switch just died on me... the Nand became corrupt so it bricked the console. China would have to torture me as slave for me to buy Nintendo stuff ever again.
@@M-Batman Yea since Wii U everything went downwards.. Gamecube was tbh the latest really good console. I would say SNES & Gamecube still stands the test of time pretty good. I purchased Wii U at launch but sold it pretty quickly afterwards. I still own the Switch but I am annoyed by having to worry about potential stick drift.. Not sure but maybe there is some 3rd party manufacturer that makes better joy-cons.
Ah good point on the fuse to be used like masked rom. That’s interesting. One company I worked for we used One-Time Programmable (OTP), which I understand to be the “blown fuse” memory. But this little security microcontroller stored just a few RSA public keys keys in there to valid the signed rom. Hadn’t though about OTP being used to store everything. I wonder the failure rate. I recall we proved we had a small percentage of failure when one bit of OTP would “blow” in the field. We read the memory later to prove it. But I guess everything has a rate of failure.
I kinda doubt I will look back to playing Switch games in 30 years from now but even so, I am happy I picked up a second Switch which itself is hacked so I can dump these cartridges.
I have a PS3 which most of those games are from 2007 and those are Blu rays but it all depends on the disc drive, that's why I am glad I bought the last PS3 revision which looks cheap but I believe the disc drive would last longer since there's no physical moving parts. The laser starts going and the game starts with no problem. I do have a PS2 slim that's already 20 years old and only one game doesn't want to read from the drive so I just burn it on my PC and play it emulated, which I believe that's how most games are going to be played in the near future. PS3 games can be emulated but you need a beefy graphics card while PS2 games can be run on my laptop without any dedicated graphics.
I think CD disc are said to last 50 years. I used the Netflix disc on my PS3 for a few years it died. I thin it was the heat from the PS3 that killed it. The problem with disc media is plastic disc don't last long. Some Blu-Ray disc are said to last 1000 years if you store them good.
Carts only lasting 20 years is still going to be a major problem for both collectors and investors. Gameboy, Gameboy Color and Gameboy Advance cartridges will still be working after 50 years. So collectors will be able to play them throughout their lifetime. Similarly they will hold and gain in value for investors. But for people who buy DS or 3DS or Switch games either to collect and play, or as an investment... they are sitting on a ticking time bomb.
i've had conversations with other collectors it's going to eventually turn into action figure display items is what i'm thinking emulation is basically going to be the choice soon
My thought exactly. 20 Years is far to early for a game to stop functioning. Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) still functions.. 1983. Sega Genesis still functions perfectly fine. It released 1988. Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) still functions 1990 Playstation 1 still functions.. 1994 Nintendo 64 still functions 1996.. Playstation 2 still functions 2000.. Gamecube still functions 2001.. Imo Gamecube is the last console which can be considered "Retro". When Switch becomes retro it's basically when the games starts to die off given that timeframe..
I keep them in my Switch case pouches but at least its zipped up and no light or hot air can go inside. I am afraid of dust damaging it from over time. I keep an eye on that
Good thing there's emulation with Yuzu, Ryujinx and Skyline. In the event that the Switch cartridges stop working, you can use back up ROM files in the far future, when Nintendo is no longer supporting the Switch.
It's going to degrade differently. Nes cartridges were not by design intended to last forever either. Vulnerable to rust, heat and dust. Everything has some entropy to it. It's still possible that a switch cart could boot up in sixty years under the best conditions.
I collect for switch only games I want to play of course cause it’s fun. I’m not too concerned as 30-40 years from now I’ll be 50 or 60 and probably have other means to access these games by then.
Yeah, happy this is making people look at their stuff and hopefully realize that there's a timer going on it. Granted, def seems like people are blowing it out of proportion but still. Everything degrades and fail and if you want it to last for a long time, either power it on once in a while, or back it up some how.
This is the most ….I have know words. Time to find another hobby. This is ridiculous! The standard was Atari, Nintendo, Sega carts. This is some bullsqueeze straight up.
I think Nintendo still manufactures all carts as far as i can tell. Anything over 4GB is just a chip with pins in the back. They are all Made in Japan still.
Thanks for the info. I've been worried about it since we started hearing about DS games failing. It's too bad, but that seems to be the tradeoff for (cheap) storage.
About two years ago I was going out of my way to obtain physical Game Boy Advance games from the Facebook market, as well as sites like Amazon. I managed to obtain a lot of really amazing GBA games but I had to stop once I found out about flash memory, and that physical game cartridges don't last forever. I'm 30 years old and I went through my whole life without anyone telling me about that stuff. It made me so sad. I really thought games lasted forever. Also I'm pretty sure some of those GBA games I got from Amazon and eBay are fake, not that it matters anymore.
Original gba games use rom chips and will last many many years (50+) so I would not worry about those. it will be ds, 3ds and switch that will have the shorter lifespans!
@@silvania1989 And they should for many years to come as long as they are cared for (might need the battery changing but that's it). All my nes and master system games work perfectly and their from the 80's. The odd game cart that no longer works and the rom chip is dead, has usually been stored in extreme hot or cold conditions or damp conditions etc.
@@infinityeight8705 That’s very true. I know people with SNES, N64 etc collections that still work perfectly fine. It you take good care of your games they should last you a long time.
I had heard Switch games have a lower shelf life. It seems older consoles don't suffer from this, but its where video game preservation and ROM dumping becomes a necessity for future proofing.
What is the point for buying physical games nowadays? You don't get instruction manuals, no concept art, no other cool stuff and these companies charge 60 dollars for a AAA release. Isn't like buying a CD or Vinyl Album that offers way more for a cheaper price and can last a very long time
Maybe things just weren't meant to last forever. Maybe we're meant to enjoy them as they exist. No one is really using old radios from 40, 50 years ago
So mask rom is almost like a vinyl record in that the data is physical rather than just static charges. Plenty of roms have worn out, just look at the c64 scene.
Aside form physical degradation I'm more interested about the data retention that is affecting the FLASH memory after some time(around a year of not being used) that happens to all FLASH memories(Micro SD, SD cards, USB sticks, SSD, etc.) that are non-volatile memory, and Switch cartridges also uses non-volatile memory. What good are Switch cartridges is after a year or two of sitting on the shelf start to lose(by degradation) the data in it?
@@therealjaystone2344 ok, but the metal of the actual chip is not exposed; its inside of the epoxy resin(the black outer shell of the microchip that is meant to protect the actual microchip inside).
@@ryutenmen even so, the cartridge of the game inside is prone to dust and heat that makes the inside of the hardware itself to have dust and rust. The fans were meant to keep heat out of the hardware but like an ordinary fan we had to keep it clean because dust is there.
My Wii U has the problem. I was able to use Xenoblade Chronicles X to apply an update and then my Nintendo Land game worked. Doing the System update didn't help at all so idk why Xenoblade Chronicles X helped. I then deleted and redownloaded Wind Waker and it then started working.
I have to say you just said 30-40 years with some confidence but no one really knows. The marketing from Macronix said ***as long as*** 20 years at 85 degrees Celsius. That to me means at the long end, not on average. Now higher temps were mentioned to increase rate of degradation, so in a climate controlled environment, it should last longer than whatever they tested at 85C. However, we don't really know how long they will last. The charge in the memory cells slowly drains over time, getting replenished when it's used, and the cell integrity weakens over time. So it's unclear how long a cart left untouched vs one used every few months would fare. They should last relatively long, hopefully around the two decade mark plus, and I personally think they'll last as long as 30 years... We can make guesses and predictions, but it's impossible to know for certain until we get there, unfortunately.
Well I know by the time I hit retirement, if I don't already have a better emulation solution I'm going to be one angry old man. My other older consoles better not act up too
Yes I also own a Deadpool and TMNT. I stream them on twich on Wednesdays at 5PM PST and Saturdays 2PM PST on twitch under Cellprocessing. Up this week is Deadpool.
Yes. The non-volatile memory inside the Switch will degrade over time, and its a double edge-sword, because to stop the degradation(data retention loss) you must use the Switch(using it will electrically charge the flash cell memories) but also using it will wear those cells. Thats the nature/limitation of flash memory.
Seems like bluray will be a safer bet than flash memory. As long as you keep bluray discs nice and clean they should provide a very long lifespan, though it's rather easy to damage a bluray disc.
Aw man, I have the japanese version FFX HD remaster on the switch. It has everything from the collection on one cartridge. I would hate for it to fail at some point. Even though last mission started interesting, yet became brutal, and can go to hell, lol.
The fact that you said nothing last forever is very sobering about everything we have. I like my physical copies of games but one day soon it’s going to be harder and harder to get physical games as it will be all downloaded at some point.
Non issue imo. With a hacked switch you can rip your cartridges, thus preserving them for emulators. Sure that sounds bad, but not only are handheld computers on the rise, but the emulators already provide better performance than the switch itself in many cases, over time that accuracy and almost superiority will make these constantly-evolving pc handhelds a more enjoyable and higher quality way to play these games. Online may be missing, but then again 3DS fan servers are a thing.
Once they work out the kinks in the storage anyway. Gosh darnit the Steam Deck pisses me off with how poorly it handles data. Thing just fills up for no reason.
for many of us it is an issue, ripping these games and playing on emulators isnt the answer. its more than just preserving the games for physical collectors. 1) all physical games will almost be entirely worthless when they start dying, 2) physical collectors enjoy the act of having a collection which they can insert the original game bought back in the day, and play it on their consoles, all part of the enjoyment.. 3) why bother buying anything physical now if all you end up doing is ripping the games later, might as well just do it now
The Nand problem is almost non existent, there are only a few Wii U models that this has been reported on. It's not problem that should get much attention, because this won't happen to the majority of consoles out there. There are every kind of technical problems that can occur on consoles that is not regularly used, but chips fails on consoles that is used on a daily basis too! It is certainly not a viable problem in general, because there has been sold billions of consoles over the years and most of them still work! Speaking of rom chips, just take those old arcade boards from the late eighties to mid nineties they all used masked EPRoms and some of them has failed with the need of replacements, but most of them still works just fine! The whole Nand problem has been blown out of proportions with several RUclipsrs, my Wii U from 2012 still works perfect and it probably will for many years same with my Switch games!
Well 10 years is a really short time period, and 20 years isn't _that_ long either. All my Nintendo 64 and Game Boy stuff is older than that and still works, and I bought all my Switch games on cartridges expecting them to last forever (or at least as long as I live). Sucks that they use such crappy technology for modern consoles and cartridges. And I thought the only problem the Switch had was the rechargeable batteries for the console and the controllers, which will inevitably go bad in a short amount of time, without Nintendo offering any wired alternatives...
So in this case, isnt it better to use good quality sd cards which could last long compared to nintendo switch cartridges? I maybe wrong tho. In comparison to nintendo switch cartridge and ps5 discs, given that you are taking care of them both, which one will last longer? Thanks!
Physical copies degrading or with the hellscape that is modern game patches is still why if you have the know-how or time, I’m a huge proponent for dumping ROMs of your games alongside any patches or DLC, even if you don’t have plans to use an emulator. This stuff isn’t exactly fool-proof, so it should be treated the same as VHS tapes.
Ok so do I have to worry about my 3 most fav switch games metroid prime remastered Mario odyssey and Mario kart 8 cause those are my fav switch games will those last atleast 20 years?
If I had to guess, I think these consoles will be the last to have physical media (except for Nintendo, they likely will do one last round with their follow up system).
Don't worry to much, worry about you're health.
I really wouldn’t worry about it, the oldest flash memory based devices for gaming would be the PS1 memory cards, which we haven’t seen go bad on a massive scale and they are almost 30 years old.
In addition you can both read and write to these cartridges further reducing lifespan and they often have been left unused for decades and still work.
The DS cartridges are also approaching 20 years and we haven’t seen issues there either. Lastly, flash technology has also been improved greatly since the mid 90s.
I remember a post back when NintendoAge was still around in which a user worriedly urged people to check their DS games for save failures or outright failure to boot because they had read that 10 years was the average NAND flash shelf life, but so far so good, even all these years later.
We're lucky that most of our storage technology seems to be far exceeding the expected life as advertised by the manufacturers - I remember reading that standard Hard Disk Drives have a life expectancy of 10 years and my oldest HDD from the PC I purchased in 2009 is still kicking, though it does run a bit slowly nowadays - I suspect that's more an issue with the mechanical components. Given that Switch cartridges are read-only, we're hopefully looking at several decades of use.
@@SerenadeURA I've got 30 year old hard drives from 1991-92 that still work with the data preserved. I think Hard Drive life expectancy especially when talking about cold storage (a disconnected drive just sitting on a shelf) has been vastly underrated.
i even got gba games still saving on the battery backup. Heck my old sonic and knuckles sega genesis cart still works even.
I think the Sega Master System's Card Format games might also use Flash Memory for holding game data. I could be wrong however so don't quote me on that. All I know is they still work even now.
@@Nin10Guy I'd be quite surprised if the Master System used flash, we're talking 1986 era and I don't think it was around. The first time I ever even heard about rewritable solid state flash of any kind (ie, non battery backup) was the original PlayStations memory cards. I know Neo Geo used memory cards too a few years before but I'm not sure how those work either.
Anything under 40 years shouldn't be acceptable.
Agreed
Fully agree. I would even go as far as 50. By that time I guess emulation would be considered ok. I mean our grandkids does not necessarily need to be able to get a physical game as a heirloom but we (the buyers) should be able to play them for the larger part of our own life.
@@teogabrielsson4717 Most people will lose interest in a game long before then anyway, or will have other means of playing it.
I bet you anything CDs will outlive Switch cartridges after seeing what is happening to Wii Us.
@@jayb8934 that’s not the point though. My reason to collect to begin with is because I like that game know that will not lose interest on them. I’ve been doing this for a long time now. I guess he’s right that nothing lasts forever.
Pirating and making digital copies will be the future of video games.
Thanks for the SO, Its an interesting topic. I hope no one took your videos for fear mongering. I found your approach very informative, collectors should know about their games and the tech thats in them for longevity and preservation. I work with applications that need memory to be solid for a very long time with little to no maintenance, so finding out what options are out there is always on the mind. I never thought to apply that to modern games though until your last video came up. Like everyone else, I just shut my brain off after work and pick up a game to play to relax.
I think some companies might still backup to tape.
@@gamingwithstand6886 Absolutely! A lot of companies still back up to tape. There are also plenty of modern adaptations to tape archiving where cartridges are often in the size of multi terabytes.
I remember I think in 2005 Gmail something happened and Google had to recover a lot of peoples emails. Only a few they could not recover. In the news story they said they backup to tape.
I don't work in IT so when I think tape I'm thinking of someone loading Doom on tape on some retro PC.😂
Congrats on hitting 1K. happy for you.
Thank you
This is why, more important than having physical copies, is being able to backup your games. All physical media has a shelf life, and the way consoles are made means that they may not necessarily last forever being subject to mechanical or other types of failure that something like a SNES didn't have to worry about. Physical was always just a stopgap to real preservation.
yep which is why i stopped buying all games for my switch and getting them from GOG. so i can just use OneXplayer2. And emulate the rest of switch. its like all the modern consoles have no flexibility or future proof. not to mention Nintendo's horrible user account switch issues. all the primary secondary BS
@@jfitnesshealth yeah I mostly game on PC these days for many of the same reasons. I love the fact that PCs can always play my old games from 5, 10, 20 and often even more years ago on any modern PC. You don't have to keep and maintain an old PC lying around from every 5 year era just to play games from that era. Backwards compatibility is just assumed as a given. I hate the idea these days of buying into consoles that feel like a "black hole" where every 5 years the platform gets wiped out and your games all exist in a "silo" in which it's anyone's guess if you can play then on a future console, or if instead you'll have to meticulously maintain an old platform in working order just to keep access to your old games. In the past decade I'm largely done with that and consoles. Like you said I have PC games now from the past 2 decades plus that I just have nice easy access to and I don't have to worry everytime I replace my gaming laptop every few years about losing my investments. I still play all my GOG, Steam, and itch.io games I've purchased since 2003-2004 on my latest gaming laptop I bought in 2021. ✌️😊
@@TransCanadaPhil yep same here! I remember making my own collection of PC demos from file planet.. Backing up patches etc. Once we stopped using memory cards and consoles started having hard drives is when I started getting nervous lol
Piracy wins
Yo everything has a shelf life
If you look at what we had with floppy disks we have come a long way with retaining data. Hopefully the future will bring better technology for data storage.
I still have 4.25" floppies that are perfectly fine. My copy of Rick Dangerous runs flawlessly. And data on floppies are only supposed to last for 15-20 years, yet this game was made in 1989 so don't believe longevity numbers, nand storage has not even been out for 20 years so all we have are gusstamates on how long they will last
@@daedalus547 It is really a Matter of Quality.
I also have Floppies still living, newer ones i've bought late in the Life Span (3,5") are dead.
Same with CDs, most are fine, have a few cheap ones that i burned myself and they are also dead.
@@Azuris190 I find it's not so much the discs/disks but the drives that determine the life of the media, I've had floppies fail in the past, but then I noticed something, I bought a NOS floppy and only used that drive, I found that the media to this day lasts as long as you keep the drive clean, back in the day I used to use floppies for school so those disks got dirty.
Same with optical media, I found that my 4x or 8x drives won't damage CD's however the vibration from a 48x or 52x drive actually damages the top layer of the disc as it vibrates.
@@daedalus547 Oh you are absolutly right, thats also something to take into Consideration.
@@daedalus547 It's also a matter of statistical failure rates and when the risk of failure becomes unacceptably high. The manufacturer estimated lifespan is basically what they feel comfortable telling their customers the product will last for without significant issue and barring manufactured defects.
I remember you mentioning potential future solutions/repairs in the last video. I still hold out hope that there will be some sort of resolution to come about out of this the next 20 years or so.
The idea of an “infinite battery” mod for a GameBoy game seemed impossible 20 years ago, and look where we are now… Technology is always progressing, and humanity’s always looking for a way to cheat the system lol. What’s impossible today might be commonplace tomorrow.
Keep up the great content 👍
Jurassic Park Ian Chaos theory. "Life finds a way. It's not always permanent."
Hmm
I like how your videos are informative and straight to the point, I hope your channel sees more growth in the future!
Your channel seems to have gotten a large influx of traffic, that's awesome to see! You deserve it! Gives me hope for my channel as well. I mean, it would help if I would make more videos again.. been kind of burnt out mentally, need to get over that.
i wouldn't have guessed that CDs have a better Live Span (25-50 Years)
This is a super interesting topic though, and it's definitely got me thinking about my collection as a whole.
It's honestly sad to think about. I rarely buy digital so this sucks to hear
I don't think you were trying to fear monger or anything like that. You're just bringing up interesting questions so everyone can learn more about it. Great follow up video.
My Neo Geo cart already 30 plus years old and still working fine. Thank god
I will never buy digital. If physical stops with Nintendo, XBox, Playstation, i go Everdrive or so. And buy old games, there’s so many good, old games now, you’ll never be able to finish them before you die.
Great info, man. I know this is from awhile ago, but I appreciate the optimism 🙂
Now if I can just find the time to play these games before they go bad...🤔
Damn, We're takin on a saint war fighting in defense of the old classic physical releases while considering how much time & which media will last longer: cartridges, optic discs or the servers that holds our purchased games....
We can always reflash cartridges. If a disc gets scratched, it can easily become beyond repair. Servers for live service games are a scam.
Cartridges for the win tbh
Everything is moving toward digital downloads to the point that I think gamestop will go out of business.
"You will own nothing and be happy" - Klaus Schwab
Nintendo is the only company that manufactures Switch games.
All publishers purchase their games from nintendo.
So that's a good sign.
Never thought about that until now. The old carts from the nes all the way to the n64 including all gameboy systems used a different kind of cart, those were the ones that holds memory forever that's why they still work today lol. I always wondered what kind of carts the switch used because they look a lot cheaper than the carts of yesteryear. Now I know they won't last decades like the old carts which will be my deciding factor of buying physical switch games going forward and I'm a physical collector. I hope nintendo solved this problem by making a better cartridges with the switch 2
If the flash is like an SD card, it has a short-ish life before the data disappears but plugging it into a powered system resets that timer. It works similarly to old gameboy carts but instead of a battery, the sections of data are powered by the device you plug it into and refresh their charge without the need to replace a component
How long should I plug in my Switch and 3DS carts into the system, and does the system just need to be powered on or do I need to boot into the game too?
@@infiniterecursion9550 it’s probably like, once every 20 years or something. SD cards last 10 years but our game cartridges clearly last longer than that. The bytes would have to be powered by the system so the system would have to be on and able to detect the card at the very least. That’s the best case scenario. I’m no hardware expert but it’s possible that it may also be that the bytes have to be accessed which would mean you’d have to load every line of code and every asset in the game to stop them from being corrupted. The worst scenario is that the bytes have to be rewritten. Game cartridges are read-only so unless you were able to back them up and force them to accept being flashed again which I’m not sure is possible on a hardware level the bytes will die and the cartridge will become completely empty one day. It may be possible to rewrite a proprietary flash cartridge or it might be impossible without changing it on a hardware level (like how SD cards have a lock switch). If you want to preserve data for long periods of time without using it, use hard drives as they don’t rely on a charge to keep data. If you really want to keep that data as securely as possible, use CDs. They can be scratched but are more robust than hard drives and store the data in physical form. If the CD is intact and undamaged, your data is there. This comes with the downside of having read-only and needing to fragment some files such as switch games but you would fit multiple 3DS games
I've never been big on emulation, but after recently realizing that all of my disc-based consoles are dying and rebuying off ebay only buys maybe a year or two of time and will eventually run out of supply, and learning about the shoddy modern carts, I'm now 100% on board with emulating my entire collection. At least I can preserve it by buying new drives.
Wow, I wanted to learn more about this for a while now - found your channel just yesterday. Lol
Stay excited and feed the algorithm just like you're starting to do my dude! Looking forward to seeing more from you.
I have 3 Wii U's. 2 of them I rarely take out of storage. I have them mainly as spares for the long run. But I checked them and it's all good.
I have also spare WiiU's for backup. I use them every 6 months or so for a short time. Don't know if that helps.
The only thing is when you purchase digital games on the switch you technically don’t truly own it because it constantly checks if you’re allowed to play it in the system. And if you don’t have internet you can’t play the games at all. But for the physical copy the system doesn’t need to check if you can get access to it. I noticed this while on a plane and I couldn’t play ANY of my digital games unless I payed for internet. Plus it takes up storage on your system to have digital games anyways which you have to purchase a separate SD card
That only happened because your Switch was not set as the “home” console. If you have it set that way you can play your digital games without an internet connection
I still play my Wii with GameCube games that are already 20 years old.. If they end up dying yes you can play with emulation but it’s not the same.. The feeling of nostalgia you get from playing older systems is priceless IMO
Basically they will outlast me. I could careless how long they last after I am gone.
Thank you for making this video. It has helped address some of the concerns that I have had with the Switch cartridges. The Wii U on the other hand....
All hardware dies eventually
Thats why emulation and piracy is so important
Maybe i wont be able to play my games in the future but i sure as hell can download a copy from the internet
indeed I Prefer Physical. Its like having collector bookshelf. Reminds us of our preferences and revisiting it. Stores data in the disk and less on your hard drive.
I was hoping to have my physical collection of Switch for life. I hope there will be a solution to fix these games in the future.
Even if 20 years is accurate for the smaller games that is pretty short
The smaller games 1 2 or 4GB carts can be as low as 10 years. Its the 8,16,32,64GB carts that are rated for 20
Any info about Nintendo DS game (those are small :( )
@@cascadepinball 10 Years..that is pretty short. I am glad that Sega Genesis, SNES, NES, N64, Gamecube does not have this problem... 10... would that even be enough to create nostalgia for someone? I feel sorry for todays children.. think about all the 5-10 years old that will want to revisit their childhood memories.. when they are 20. We have had it good...
10 years is not a long time for something like this at all, it's looking like ripping your games with a hacked switch will be a necessity in the future.
sadly seems so. I really did not want to hack my switch though. Its a v1 model.
My wii u died, sitting in a box for awhile. Saw the videos about them dying so I wanted to homebrew it but I was too late. Happened this week
Sorry that happend
Great info! 20 years go by so fast 😬
I wonder if there will be a point where we'll be able to re-flash them?
They do have a write command, the gigaleak gave us the keys and everything.
@@delresearch5416 i definately need it. i have over 45 physical switch games from limited run. i'm also interested in upgrading a few gba games from 2mb to 4mb. the only issue is if i go and upgrade some gba's from forums it looks like that some work some don't. Let's see how this write command mentioned fares against gba upgrading. if i can put a game like shantae or cursed castilla ex on larger cart sizes i would absolutely do that.
Ye
These are really informative, thank you! Can I ask how this applies to 3DS cartridges? How will they degrade?
3DS games will just die out and your saves will be deleted😂😂😂 most Nintendo games with Cartridges aren’t that future proof they will however last 40 or 50 years depending how you take care of it. Luckily the wii games are future proof though.
Cool video! I think it's just a sign of the times, but it's hard to strike that balance between some digital and some physical because you know game companies will do everything they can to sway people towards digital (low overhead costs), unless they're selling expensive collector's editions.
The chip usually is wearing when you read data from it. Just from sitting on the shelf - I doubt there is any change in lifespan.
It depends on quality materials and manufacturing process. I've seen lots of PC-EngineCD and Saturn games that lasts 20+ years without a scratch. Most current platforms features media that will last about 5 years at max. We should push companies to manufacture long lasting electronics sometimes...
CDs last centuries if you don't play freeze-be with them.
Yep, just had my launch edition switch just died on me... the Nand became corrupt so it bricked the console. China would have to torture me as slave for me to buy Nintendo stuff ever again.
@@M-Batman Yea since Wii U everything went downwards.. Gamecube was tbh the latest really good console. I would say SNES & Gamecube still stands the test of time pretty good. I purchased Wii U at launch but sold it pretty quickly afterwards. I still own the Switch but I am annoyed by having to worry about potential stick drift.. Not sure but maybe there is some 3rd party manufacturer that makes better joy-cons.
Ah good point on the fuse to be used like masked rom. That’s interesting.
One company I worked for we used One-Time Programmable (OTP), which I understand to be the “blown fuse” memory. But this little security microcontroller stored just a few RSA public keys keys in there to valid the signed rom.
Hadn’t though about OTP being used to store everything.
I wonder the failure rate. I recall we proved we had a small percentage of failure when one bit of OTP would “blow” in the field. We read the memory later to prove it. But I guess everything has a rate of failure.
I kinda doubt I will look back to playing Switch games in 30 years from now but even so, I am happy I picked up a second Switch which itself is hacked so I can dump these cartridges.
My wii-u still works, and my son it's wii-u also. That last one was about 2 years not used.
i saw your video about the wii u then this and decided to sub cause i learn more in 10 seconds of your video that i do in a hour of anyone elses
Great and helpful video. I panicked because I have more than 200 physical switch games... Rds from Spain
20 yrs from now you'll be able to get the entire switch library on one card from a foreign country for peanuts 🥜
This video gave me peace of mind..and i don't even have a switch yet..Lol
What are your thoughts on the longevity of blu-ray discs like PS4 physical media discs? As in how long will they last?
I have a PS3 which most of those games are from 2007 and those are Blu rays but it all depends on the disc drive, that's why I am glad I bought the last PS3 revision which looks cheap but I believe the disc drive would last longer since there's no physical moving parts. The laser starts going and the game starts with no problem. I do have a PS2 slim that's already 20 years old and only one game doesn't want to read from the drive so I just burn it on my PC and play it emulated, which I believe that's how most games are going to be played in the near future. PS3 games can be emulated but you need a beefy graphics card while PS2 games can be run on my laptop without any dedicated graphics.
I think CD disc are said to last 50 years.
I used the Netflix disc on my PS3 for a few years it died. I thin it was the heat from the PS3 that killed it.
The problem with disc media is plastic disc don't last long.
Some Blu-Ray disc are said to last 1000 years if you store them good.
a thousand year
@@gamingwithstand6886 CDs can last centuries.
I know Bill Gates said CDs can last about 50 years because you need to burn another backup. I think it also depends on how you store your media.
Carts only lasting 20 years is still going to be a major problem for both collectors and investors.
Gameboy, Gameboy Color and Gameboy Advance cartridges will still be working after 50 years. So collectors will be able to play them throughout their lifetime. Similarly they will hold and gain in value for investors.
But for people who buy DS or 3DS or Switch games either to collect and play, or as an investment... they are sitting on a ticking time bomb.
i've had conversations with other collectors it's going to eventually turn into action figure display items is what i'm thinking emulation is basically going to be the choice soon
GBA games use flash memory to hold save files.
My thought exactly. 20 Years is far to early for a game to stop functioning.
Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) still functions.. 1983.
Sega Genesis still functions perfectly fine. It released 1988.
Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) still functions 1990
Playstation 1 still functions.. 1994
Nintendo 64 still functions 1996..
Playstation 2 still functions 2000..
Gamecube still functions 2001..
Imo Gamecube is the last console which can be considered "Retro". When Switch becomes retro it's basically when the games starts to die off given that timeframe..
@@NiekPlasman Would the carts still be playable (without saves) if the save game flash memory failed?
@@richardmullens4707 yes
I keep them in my Switch case pouches but at least its zipped up and no light or hot air can go inside. I am afraid of dust damaging it from over time. I keep an eye on that
Static
Good thing there's emulation with Yuzu, Ryujinx and Skyline. In the event that the Switch cartridges stop working, you can use back up ROM files in the far future, when Nintendo is no longer supporting the Switch.
It's going to degrade differently. Nes cartridges were not by design intended to last forever either. Vulnerable to rust, heat and dust. Everything has some entropy to it. It's still possible that a switch cart could boot up in sixty years under the best conditions.
ACNH is unplayable after 2062
I collect for switch only games I want to play of course cause it’s fun. I’m not too concerned as 30-40 years from now I’ll be 50 or 60 and probably have other means to access these games by then.
If it still tastes like a Switch game then its still good.
How accurate is this..has Nintendo agreed..
Don’t worry about it he says. It’s like when someone tells you safe and secure! Lol first time viewer, live the video
Yeah, happy this is making people look at their stuff and hopefully realize that there's a timer going on it. Granted, def seems like people are blowing it out of proportion but still. Everything degrades and fail and if you want it to last for a long time, either power it on once in a while, or back it up some how.
This is the most ….I have know words. Time to find another hobby. This is ridiculous! The standard was Atari, Nintendo, Sega carts. This is some bullsqueeze straight up.
I think Nintendo still manufactures all carts as far as i can tell. Anything over 4GB is just a chip with pins in the back. They are all Made in Japan still.
Thanks for the info. I've been worried about it since we started hearing about DS games failing. It's too bad, but that seems to be the tradeoff for (cheap) storage.
I bet switch games will last 100 years
So back them up on the new Porcelain and Glass SSDs coming out and they now last forever.
About two years ago I was going out of my way to obtain physical Game Boy Advance games from the Facebook market, as well as sites like Amazon. I managed to obtain a lot of really amazing GBA games but I had to stop once I found out about flash memory, and that physical game cartridges don't last forever. I'm 30 years old and I went through my whole life without anyone telling me about that stuff. It made me so sad. I really thought games lasted forever. Also I'm pretty sure some of those GBA games I got from Amazon and eBay are fake, not that it matters anymore.
Original gba games use rom chips and will last many many years (50+)
so I would not worry about those.
it will be ds, 3ds and switch that will have the shorter lifespans!
GBA just like most consoles before it used Mask Rom Chips which have far greater Lifespans.
Fake cards however use flash often.
I have gameboy color games that still work today!!
@@silvania1989 And they should for many years to come as long as they are cared for (might need the battery changing but that's it).
All my nes and master system games work perfectly and their from the 80's.
The odd game cart that no longer works and the rom chip is dead, has usually been stored in extreme hot or cold conditions or damp conditions etc.
@@infinityeight8705 That’s very true. I know people with SNES, N64 etc collections that still work perfectly fine.
It you take good care of your games they should last you a long time.
I had heard Switch games have a lower shelf life. It seems older consoles don't suffer from this, but its where video game preservation and ROM dumping becomes a necessity for future proofing.
Let alone your micro sd cards to be shorter too. All of your update patches and paid DLCs will be gone forever if you don’t backup.
What is the point for buying physical games nowadays?
You don't get instruction manuals, no concept art, no other cool stuff and these companies charge 60 dollars for a AAA release.
Isn't like buying a CD or Vinyl Album that offers way more for a cheaper price and can last a very long time
So you actually own the game you’re buying.
Just get your license and buy a motorcycle.
Maybe things just weren't meant to last forever. Maybe we're meant to enjoy them as they exist. No one is really using old radios from 40, 50 years ago
So mask rom is almost like a vinyl record in that the data is physical rather than just static charges. Plenty of roms have worn out, just look at the c64 scene.
Good information--thanks!
10 years lol, no way... the games will be dead before the console is even discontinued
Aside form physical degradation I'm more interested about the data retention that is affecting the FLASH memory after some time(around a year of not being used) that happens to all FLASH memories(Micro SD, SD cards, USB sticks, SSD, etc.) that are non-volatile memory, and Switch cartridges also uses non-volatile memory.
What good are Switch cartridges is after a year or two of sitting on the shelf start to lose(by degradation) the data in it?
Exposure to the oxygen onto metal causes degradation overtime.
@@therealjaystone2344 ok, but the metal of the actual chip is not exposed; its inside of the epoxy resin(the black outer shell of the microchip that is meant to protect the actual microchip inside).
@@ryutenmen even so, the cartridge of the game inside is prone to dust and heat that makes the inside of the hardware itself to have dust and rust. The fans were meant to keep heat out of the hardware but like an ordinary fan we had to keep it clean because dust is there.
Worrying about Switch games is way too much in my opinion..those could probably last 50 years or longer....and anyways who would care by then !
People still care about NES games and they are already 40 years old
It is the standards to which they are built, and the premium price nintendo has forced upon us all.
My Wii U has the problem. I was able to use Xenoblade Chronicles X to apply an update and then my Nintendo Land game worked. Doing the System update didn't help at all so idk why Xenoblade Chronicles X helped. I then deleted and redownloaded Wind Waker and it then started working.
I have to say you just said 30-40 years with some confidence but no one really knows. The marketing from Macronix said ***as long as*** 20 years at 85 degrees Celsius. That to me means at the long end, not on average. Now higher temps were mentioned to increase rate of degradation, so in a climate controlled environment, it should last longer than whatever they tested at 85C. However, we don't really know how long they will last. The charge in the memory cells slowly drains over time, getting replenished when it's used, and the cell integrity weakens over time. So it's unclear how long a cart left untouched vs one used every few months would fare. They should last relatively long, hopefully around the two decade mark plus, and I personally think they'll last as long as 30 years... We can make guesses and predictions, but it's impossible to know for certain until we get there, unfortunately.
theres an interesting thread gbatemp titled ""Nintendo Switch/3DS cartridge lifespan"" worth reading.
My house is very cold during the winter and pretty warm during the summer. Hopefully my collection won't die faster.
Well I know by the time I hit retirement, if I don't already have a better emulation solution I'm going to be one angry old man. My other older consoles better not act up too
10-20 years is Very short lifespan for physical media.Piracy is absolutely necessary for preservation
Are you saying my NES games will last longer then my switch games?
Very well could
That's why I prefers ROM emulation over physical games due to latter's vulnerability to sands of time
Is that Cactus Canyon I see?
Yes I also own a Deadpool and TMNT. I stream them on twich on Wednesdays at 5PM PST and Saturdays 2PM PST on twitch under Cellprocessing. Up this week is Deadpool.
Time flies, soon it will be 30 years would've passed, then what?
Its been 84 years. And I can still smell the fresh paint
Wow man what camera are you using cause this was pretty criiippss !! 👍🏽 Real 4k if it isn't 8!
Sony ZV-1
@@cascadepinball pretty good camera then! Thanks for your answer and your videos!!
Wait!!! Now I am discouraged to collect any longer! 😢
What about the switch itself? Does that also have flash memory inside that will degrade over time?
Yes. The non-volatile memory inside the Switch will degrade over time, and its a double edge-sword, because to stop the degradation(data retention loss) you must use the Switch(using it will electrically charge the flash cell memories) but also using it will wear those cells.
Thats the nature/limitation of flash memory.
How long until then
My n64 games never failed me 🕹️😎
Seems like bluray will be a safer bet than flash memory. As long as you keep bluray discs nice and clean they should provide a very long lifespan, though it's rather easy to damage a bluray disc.
Aw man, I have the japanese version FFX HD remaster on the switch. It has everything from the collection on one cartridge. I would hate for it to fail at some point. Even though last mission started interesting, yet became brutal, and can go to hell, lol.
The fact that you said nothing last forever is very sobering about everything we have. I like my physical copies of games but one day soon it’s going to be harder and harder to get physical games as it will be all downloaded at some point.
I just got my four copies of contra physical anniversary collection two of them for switch I wonder what limited run games uses?
Non issue imo. With a hacked switch you can rip your cartridges, thus preserving them for emulators. Sure that sounds bad, but not only are handheld computers on the rise, but the emulators already provide better performance than the switch itself in many cases, over time that accuracy and almost superiority will make these constantly-evolving pc handhelds a more enjoyable and higher quality way to play these games. Online may be missing, but then again 3DS fan servers are a thing.
Once they work out the kinks in the storage anyway. Gosh darnit the Steam Deck pisses me off with how poorly it handles data. Thing just fills up for no reason.
for many of us it is an issue, ripping these games and playing on emulators isnt the answer. its more than just preserving the games for physical collectors. 1) all physical games will almost be entirely worthless when they start dying, 2) physical collectors enjoy the act of having a collection which they can insert the original game bought back in the day, and play it on their consoles, all part of the enjoyment.. 3) why bother buying anything physical now if all you end up doing is ripping the games later, might as well just do it now
The Nand problem is almost non existent, there are only a few Wii U models that this has been reported on. It's not problem that should get much attention, because this won't happen to the majority of consoles out there. There are every kind of technical problems that can occur on consoles that is not regularly used, but chips fails on consoles that is used on a daily basis too! It is certainly not a viable problem in general, because there has been sold billions of consoles over the years and most of them still work! Speaking of rom chips, just take those old arcade boards from the late eighties to mid nineties they all used masked EPRoms and some of them has failed with the need of replacements, but most of them still works just fine! The whole Nand problem has been blown out of proportions with several RUclipsrs, my Wii U from 2012 still works perfect and it probably will for many years same with my Switch games!
Well 10 years is a really short time period, and 20 years isn't _that_ long either. All my Nintendo 64 and Game Boy stuff is older than that and still works, and I bought all my Switch games on cartridges expecting them to last forever (or at least as long as I live). Sucks that they use such crappy technology for modern consoles and cartridges. And I thought the only problem the Switch had was the rechargeable batteries for the console and the controllers, which will inevitably go bad in a short amount of time, without Nintendo offering any wired alternatives...
Longer then most men.
So in this case, isnt it better to use good quality sd cards which could last long compared to nintendo switch cartridges? I maybe wrong tho.
In comparison to nintendo switch cartridge and ps5 discs, given that you are taking care of them both, which one will last longer?
Thanks!
Lucky I'm a sealed switch collector so even if the games broken, it doesnt even matter lmao
Physical copies degrading or with the hellscape that is modern game patches is still why if you have the know-how or time, I’m a huge proponent for dumping ROMs of your games alongside any patches or DLC, even if you don’t have plans to use an emulator.
This stuff isn’t exactly fool-proof, so it should be treated the same as VHS tapes.
Ok so do I have to worry about my 3 most fav switch games metroid prime remastered Mario odyssey and Mario kart 8 cause those are my fav switch games will those last atleast 20 years?
If I had to guess, I think these consoles will be the last to have physical media (except for Nintendo, they likely will do one last round with their follow up system).