Can the Tech Disc really fix your form?
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
- Team Six Sided Discs' Caleb Thomas joins us to talk about what using the Tech Disc has been like! We review his data, talk the future of disc golf form improvements and more!
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![I Bought a Tech Disc!!! [Testing How Fast I Can Throw]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ukjnz1RHTLs/mqdefault.jpg)
Yeah!
DG Spin Doctor is good if your target is smooth form!
As far as putting more spin on, When I turned my back to the target more and pulled the disc as close to my chest as possible and the critical part: delaying opening my elbow as long as possible I got crazy spin. The spin is going to come from opening your elbow and then your wrist. Delaying opening the elbow is the same as pulling deeper into the power pocket, then when the elbow does straighten out it happens over a much faster time, resulting in much more spin. You can flex your wrist inwards further with a fan grip than with a power grip. See for yourself, make a fist and rotate your wrist inward. Compare that to how far you can rotate your wrist with your fingers fanned out. More wrist rotation means more disc RPM's too
Love that podcast style episode!
Yes. More of these please!!!
My technique for form change:
1. Absorb information from various sources, not just new school videos, but listen to the masters. Study players that are similar to you.
2. Shadow swings in a mirror. Looking in a mirror really helps make posture and form adjustments realtime.
3. Warm up before you throw a round. Stretch, shadow swings, low speed shots. Check-in with yourself and what you're feeling, pick one thing to work on.
4. Hit the course, but be mindful of your one swing thought for the day. Like a mantra before every throw.
5. Maximize rest. When you rest, that's when the brain forms new connections and records what you practice to memory. It's better to throw a little bit everyday, than throw a weeks worth of practice in one day. The reason it's better, is so you can rest and make those form adjustments permanent.
No joke on being careful to not overload oneself with YT instruction channels/videos!! Worst thing this rookie of 3-4 months did; even had to walk away for a bit and mentally start over 😄
One person that is super interesting to watch in slow motion is Albert Tamm. His release is so clean, and he has absolutely no wobble in the disc. He also doesn't look like he is throwing super hard but is throwing >70mph and SUPER far.
Yall got to 10k! Let's go! The TechDisc for me has been invaluable. I'm very analytical so I get to experiment and find what's best for me, and I can start working on consistency
I think spin and nose angle are your most important stats. I went from 500's spin to sometimes hitting 900's. I'm still having a prob consistently hitting 0 degrees to -4 degrees nose angle.
I have the same issue Caleb has, and I don't know if he has fixed this problem, but I want to share what I know about it. To be clear, his form is much better than mine, and this is really the only issue that I see he has. But I've studied this issue extensively and what I'm telling you is accurate.
What Caleb is doing is externally rotating his upper arm at the shoulder during the swing. This rotates the entire arm, turns the elbow downward, and changes the disc angle to where it's pointing downward through the swing.
As he continues the swing, the arm internally rotates, which corrects the swing plane some by the time the disc reaches the power pocket.
So there is a slight swoop in the swing, which causes higher nose angle and more wobble. Very visible at 8:24 in the video with the very floppy disc.
This also creates less spin because he isn't getting as much leverage as he could, but this is more of a secondary issue, and it's solved at the same time as everything else.
What I see is slight rounding - the upper arm angle relative to the shoulder is less than 90 degrees, and that is causing the arm to rotate as a protective mechanism. It's similar to how your body protects your knees in athletic activities.
The thing to know about wobble is that it makes a disc slightly understable in the very first part of the flight. However, gyroscopic forces will stabilize the disc and it'll "true up" at some point early on in the throw.
Your wobble numbers aren't bad because you correct some by the time the disc is in the power pocket, so when it is released the plane is consistent from there to the release of the disc.
The nose up issues (to what extent you might have) would be caused by the disc coming up during the last half of the swoop. But again you correct the plane before release.
So if your wobble and nose angle issues are under control, is there any reason to still pursue a fix?
Yes. And it has everything to do with shoulder health. Rounding causes impingement, and that will strain the rotator cuff and the soft tissue (muscle, tendons, ligaments).
I don't think you can just try to prevent external rotation of the arm to fix this issue. Reason I say that is, I've tried this endlessly, and it doesn't work. I think the focus should be the timing of the rotation of the shoulders to where you prevent rounding.
I'm going down this rabbit hole again myself so I don't want to give specific advice here, but I wanted to explain the problem because I think Caleb is in a much better position to fix this. I think he might consider working with a form coach specifically on rounding, and using this arm rotation issue as a metric to try and improve. If he can throw without it, he probably fixed the problem.
He does not round much. But I think it's enough to cause his arm to rotate as a protective measure. So I think that's a good sign: it can probably be more easily fixed with him than others.
I love this guy
@@CalebThomasDG Thank you Caleb! You're doing great, and this external rotation thing is actually somewhat common. I think you and I might be on the more extreme end with it. That said, Paige Pierce does it to some extent, and she's the been the female form goat for a few years now. Also you correct more than I do. My throws are pretty wobbly. 😂
Looks like you just hit 10,000! Congratulations!
Re: your experience putting, Greg - the best AND worst thing I did for my game was putting a basket in my back yard...I've been able to lock some things in, but there are stretches when I'm no good from 15" and I get SO frustrated. I've found that's when it's time to walk away and come back to it after feeling just one more come out correctly.
Always enjoy your content! Thank for sharing!!
Backloaded power grip ads spin. DG Spin Doctor covered it with throwing the glitch recently.
I'm wondering if anyone else has had a similar discovery as I've had regarding spin.
I've watched a decent amount of videos that talk about backloading the grip on the disc and creating more spin. I've also heard of creating a pinch point between the thumb and index finger to generate more spin.
What I've found is that when I have a loose grip on the disc I not only generate more spin, but my nose angle is much better. I'd say I generate 200 more RPMs with a “loose” grip than I do with the aforementioned grips.
My MPH is also consistently higher. For reference, I throw in the low to mid-60s with 1100-1200 RPMs on average.
Edit: without a tech disc, I wouldn't have been able to fine-tune certain aspects of my throw such as grip to increase MPH and RPMs. It makes the throw more objective. What I mean is that you're able to see the numbers that a particular throw produces and replicate the feel of that throw to produce similar results.
Realizing a loose grip produces more MPH and RPMs has been huge for my game. Also, just being more loose and relaxed in general has allowed to me to generate more consistent speed and spin. I'm sure that I would have eventually figured it out, but seeing the metrics on the tech disc expedited the process.
Wow - great video!
Great conversation. I enjoyed the hell outta this one!
Congratulations for getting 10K!
The biggest hindrance is cost. Maybe in a few years as technology improves.
This is the kind of product that excites me. It's great feedback. If you can read into the numbers, it can act as a coach to an extent.
Congrats on 10k
Enjoyed this one. I feel like getting into a deeper power pocket position + maybe gripping more firmly should generate more spin. That's what I've been working on. Hard habit to break. But it makes sense, your hand will be on the outside of the disc for longer, and then at the last second the disc will rotate around your pinch point faster.
I picked up a Game Proofer through Discmania last year and had to wait for them to figure out some regulatory stuff, but eventually got it a couple months ago.
I did a video myself on it a little while ago, but the Cliff's Notes version is that after a few throws, it was reading OK distance and spin as well as wobble and arm speed. No nose angle, although that is supposedly coming in an update and throws into a net will not give you an estimated distance.
The upside to the game proofer is that you can remove it and put it on any disc you want with a little $12 kit you can buy from them.
For myself, I found that my spin rate was much higher than I expected. 1200 is with arm speed of about 50mph.
I had the good fortune to attend a clinic with Thomas Gilbert last week, and one of my disc buddies brought his Tech Disc, and was letting everyone have a go at it. Almost universally, players had nose angle issues. My nose angle was good, -1°ish, so not optimal but better than I expected as I always felt I had a nose up throw. I've been fighting it, so maybe I'll cut myself some slack and start to work on arm speed instead. My max throws are going 350 so I'd love to add a bit of distance to help me move up to MA2.
Yes.. I have been playing for 20yrs as a right handed player and I have horrible form. I spent the last year teaching myself to throw left handed using all the proven techniques (shadow swings, start with standstills, etc) and now I can throw farther with my non dominate left hand because it was like teaching a blank student. It is very hard to unlearn things.
I've been messing around with left handed throws too, (As a rhbh dominant player), and realized that, like you said my left hand has no bad habits, it also benefits from an inherent understanding of the throw mechanics. I'm really only teaching my feet the correct order of doing things. My first couple of throws with the Discraft Drive left handed went 260 and 271 ft.
Congrats on 10k! I threw my first disc into a bucket back in the late 80s, and there wasn't much in the way of resources back then, maybe a print book or two. My form has always been okay (again, coming from a ultimate-type background) but never great. When I was younger, 450' happened often. Now that I'm older, I don't hit those distances ever. Tech disc might be a way for me to work on a new form (if that's even possible after almost 40 years.)
This is nice 👍
Nose angle is way more important than wobble. You can actively control the nose. There is little you can do for wobble than trying to keep the disc on plane during the throw.
hi sir how did you fix tilting the disc like you are in the slow motion
I found getting my nose angle down was the biggest help with tech disc. Reducing wobble and increasing spin above 1000 (up to 60 mph) are pretty diminishing returns.
Caleb, try DG Max Wax. That will probably give you more spin.
More like this
I have always heard that fan grip has less spin than a power grip. Any insites to why he got more spin with a fan grip? It might it me he got alot less spin with how he power gripped? I notice things get alot less spin for me with a fan grip and they act more understable.
I am allmost sure that it is about how relaxed/ flexiple you are with power crip vs fan crip. Relaxed arm getmore snap/speed/spin.
Its that combo of negative nose angle (0 to -4°) with positive launch angle (~10°)
I agree with Greg that the biggest issue for Tech Disc is the high cost. Won’t get a lot of people to use it at that price; it will eventually come down. Personally, I don’t think I would get much use out of it since I’m a fairly new DG player. I still struggle with basic form issues. Like Greg said, the metrics right now rotor just tell me, “You suck!” I already know that. I’ll wait to buy until the price is better and I know more about proper form.
It’s funny, I hear you about speed. I didn’t care about the speed metric when I got my TechDisc. I was interested in nose angle and release angle. (When i let friends throw it, they immediately want to know about their speed.) The only negative I have with the TechDisc is the limited options for attachment. I would have liked to have picked the disc for the puck as I don’t throw Discraft discs. It has meant learning the feel of both ESP plastic and the Buzz mold. While it’s great that Innova plastic is now available, I truly would have liked to choose from a wider selection of Buzz or Undertaker.
Nose angle is very important.
42.66%!
Somebody on Facebook asked today if a Techdisc would help him. I posted a link to this video. Hope it gets you a subscriber or two.
Cheers!
I dont understand why we dont see all any disc golf shops buy Tech Disc and charge for 1/2hour slots with the disc. Id pay $10 per half hour. Printing money in no time
If a vas3ball pitch34 can throw a gall 85 to 100plus m0h ....why atr the best disc golfer just hitting over 70 to 75 mph
I'd be more inclined to drop the $300 if it didn't require phoning home to do the data processing... This place goes out of business and your dingus just stops working...
I always get a kick out of watching Kat Mertsch - all loose and slinky and bombs